¶ No Doubt About It
No doubt about it .
Thursday edition of the No Doubt About It podcast . And we're getting ready for a huge holiday week 4th of July and the greatest country in the world .
It's very exciting .
It's going to be good It's going to be good .
It's very exciting And we're actually not going to be here next week . We're not going to do any podcast next week , just so we can have a little bit of a break with our family , but we'll be back the following week , on the 11th , and we will be dropping quite a . We'll tell you about that at the end of this show .
Yes , i don't want to give too much away right now . I need to listen to the very end of the show , but let's start off really quickly , just reminding folks that that rating and reviewing on the podcast that they're listening to is very important for us . We really appreciate all you folks that are doing that out there for us . Please continue to do so .
And also our big goal is to get you that 5,000 subscriber number on our YouTube channel . We are growing , we are making progress and we would love if you could just hit that subscribe button .
Yes , and if you don't , then Christy's going to carve up another piece of our draperies and wear them on the show , What she's doing today . Are you making fun of my shirt ? Well , no , it's a very . I mean , it is a very . It's a bold choice .
Yes , i like . Sometimes I like to go bold , fella .
And every couch of an 80-year-old woman across New Mexico is like I could be next .
You know that is rude and hurtful .
Number one , number two I think you always look great Sphere .
Oh , but you don't like my top . No , i didn't say that , i just said it was a bold choice . Yeah well , i kind of like bold choices sometimes .
Something we enjoy doing once in a while is watching a show called The Golden Girls .
I don't know if you've ever heard of it before .
People out there , Yeah yeah , if you haven't look up The Golden Girls , it actually holds up very well . It's still really funny .
Well , what happened was ? Ella actually asked us if we watched the show when Betty White passed away Right . And so I was like I've never seen The Golden Girls . I had never watched The Golden Girls ever . And you said I did , You watched it with your family , or something .
Oh yeah , I grew . I've seen every episode of The Golden Girls .
Well , it is funny because it's kind of this resurgence of like pop culture , of Golden Girls shirts out there . Oh absolutely Crazy facts . So yeah , so we started watching it because I was like what , let's watch it .
It's during the campaign We'd come over night , and then you need something that's relaxed And OK . So Bea Arthur is the . You're dressed a little like Bea Arthur today .
I mean , that is actually . I mean I love Bea Arthur . Don't get me wrong , I don't want to dress like her So it's a little hurtful , a little rude . It's anthropology guys , This is an anthropology blouse . OK , ok , and I'm sorry that you always dress kind of square . I'm not square .
I mean , by the way , if you do , we should . I'm sorry for insulting when you're right , but I do think that when we look at this show , i mean , if you're looking for something that is just , that holds up over 30 years , golden Girls is still funny .
Yeah , these ladies were really really funny . And I just think it's kind of We've bumped into people . a good friend of ours , scott Darnell , big Golden Girls guy . I mean it's so funny just how people really kind of related to these ladies and in any way .
Oh , and I think one of the younger ones . So the way it works is Bea Arthur's mom , who is Estelle Getty .
Are you really explaining Golden Girls ? Yeah , yeah .
So Bea Arthur's mom , Estelle Getty , in this particular thing was actually younger than Bea Arthur .
Right .
Estelle Getty . the mom on the show is younger than the daughter , But it is funny . It's about four women who live together , and they live together in South Florida and it is hilarious .
So fun little fact for you , mark Rue McClanahan .
Rue , yeah , yeah , rue McClanahan .
Yeah , I don't remember her .
Blanche , that would be Blanche . Okay , so Blanche , absolutely .
Blanche's brother was a teacher at my high school in Fort Collins . No way , yeah , i went to Puder High School in Fort Collins and he was a teacher there , did Blanche ever show up ? I never saw Blanche show up . Now , i'm not saying she didn't show up , but I And I also never had him as a teacher . but it was kind of like everybody knew that he was .
His sister was pretty famous because Golden Girls was big when we were in high school .
Oh , yeah , yeah , yeah . So Well , it was funny because my art teacher , her brother , was Wip Hubbly , who was in Top Gun . What He was ? Iceman's partner in Top Gun .
Okay , I'm going to trump you on this one too . You ready for this ?
No great , here Topper joins us .
Okay , so Top Topper .
Top . Topper that's wearing . It's wearing the drapes . This is unbelievable .
I feel , okay , i'm going to wear . I'm going to wear as bold of colors as I can , moving forward .
I can't wait for this Please . I mean seriously .
Yeah , and you're deeply insulting all the people who shop at Anthropology by the way .
So you're welcome . Oh , don't you wrap me into insulting everyone at Anthropology . Look , anthropology , you know what they do . those buyers at Anthropology are like let's see if some idiot will wear this . Oh my God . Yeah that's what they do .
That's what they do guy . Okay , all right . No , let me see if I can remember this . I didn't know we were going to talk about this , but So again go back into high school again , right , so you're talking about the new Top Gun .
Right , no , no , no , i'm not . No , i'm the old one , the old one .
Okay , so I'm talking about the old one too , because obviously we grew up in the 80s and the 90s , right . So a guy that I went to high school with his name was Adam and the rumor was is that Adam's brother went to see you bolder and he was roommates had been roommates with Goose Edward .
James , almost No , i'm just kidding . No , edward , yeah , i know what you mean It's terrible ?
I don't remember this . And they had graduated college already , right , and the rumor was going around the school this one day was that .
Anthony Edwards .
Anthony Edwards Thank you so much , okay . so Anthony Edwards was coming back for some sort of like get-together , reunion or something with the older brother , and so all of us got in our car I remember doing this and we drove to Adam's house unbeknownst to Adam , by the way , i mean , he still would have no idea . We did this to see if we could see Goose .
Well .
We saw no Goose . But the fact is , you didn't top me , then I did . You're like my brother's second aunt's father's sister .
No , my art teacher's brother was Wip Hubey , who was Ice Man's partner , and that's a big deal . It's a really big deal .
I think I can top both of you Oh no .
My pediatrician's boyfriend was brothers with Neil Patrick Harris . Oh , i know him . Oh , you know Neil Patrick Harris .
No , i know his brother , he's a really nice guy .
I know his brother's girlfriend .
They owned a restaurant down on Sam and Tale .
Yeah , we're going to try to ask you if you can name that too .
Starts with a peep peregrines . No , something like that .
Oh , Grofim was nice .
No , yeah , they were really nice family .
Okay , yeah , we're kind of the couple right now Perennials , perennials , wow what is wrong with us ? I don't know .
We're like stumbling on remembering things , somebody call Previgin and help us out . That was good sponsorship .
It's awful To help us remember anything . Okay , we actually have quite a pack show We do .
Let's start with what we've got coming up here It's kind of serious , and then we'll get into some kind of current events before we go to our interview .
Okay . So I was a really good friend of mine , amy Griebi , was asking me a couple of well , probably a month and a half ago had I heard of Operation Underground Railroad And I had said , no , i didn't know It goes . You should look it up . This is an amazing group of people who have formed together to go and save kids from child sex trafficking rinks .
Okay , globally , yep , and I was like whoa , that seems pretty heavy . I said go check it out . It's really , it's just an incredible thing these guys are doing . So I started looking at them up on Instagram and I was like , okay , we got to do something with these guys . Like we got to interview them , we got to talk about them .
Number one we talked about human trafficking when you were running for office , because we're a border state , yeah , and human trafficking is an issue here That no fentanyl trade , Yeah Right . It's really big .
And so we were , you know and that was a tough topic to talk about on the campaign , right , because a lot of people don't want to talk about it , they want to kind of bury their heads in the sand , and it's not necessarily because it's tough , but it is something that we really want to make sure that we're addressing .
Number two the other reason this is timely is because on July 4th there is a movie coming out with Jim Caviesel called Sound Freedom .
Yes , and it's about Operation Underground Railroad , right , it's about the founders of this program and how and kind of their stories and how this thing got started , and they're trying to sell movie tickets for the July 4th showing as a fundraising event for these kids .
So we're going to get to that in the second half of our show , because I think it's just one of those things And I , you know , while it's some tougher topics , we've done our best to not really try to make it graphic or go into , you know , major detail .
I just want you to be prepared that if you do have somebody younger than maybe I don't know 14 , 15 , obviously Ella's 14 .
She's in the room right now , so probably younger than that , just , and we don't again , we don't go into major detail , it's just a situation that we want , and they did say that the movie actually is appropriate for anybody that's 14 and up . So Right , he is the president of Operation Underground Railroad And he's also one of the founding members .
He was a former CIA agent for 12 years . So pretty fascinating guy , and we'll get to him in just a little bit .
But once again , mark , you've stacked the show and Well , again , you're more than welcome to put the work into the show if you'd like . I love how you show up and you make preparation . Look , look , like it's something I've done to you .
Okay . Well , it's not that I don't appreciate it , i just sometimes have no idea where we're going . but that's okay , i because I have you know .
I would know you were , were you busy ? and the ?
Yeah , I was working in the clearance rack and anthropology . I'm working my other job . I might you know , this is Okay .
Well , i will say you'll , you'll like the first story . We're going to dip into the presidential race and what's going on .
So the Hill just had an article that came out today or yesterday , maybe at the latest here just saw it here , and it's on Glenn Yonkin , that he could be the surprise candidate coming into the presidential race here , and it had a fascinating paragraph that that I want to read to you about this .
Here's the article right here Again , it's from the Hill , you can check it out is Glenn Yonkin the dark horse of 2024 . And this is the takeaway in the poll paragraph . Here is Yonkin's national polling numbers are particularly remarkable .
A survey conducted earlier this year , which looked at the hypothetical general election matchups between Biden and a series of potential Republican challengers , found Yonkin ahead of Biden by 16 points , destroying him 55 to 39 . Comparatively , desantis leads Biden by five and Trump trailed Biden by one .
Yonkin's favorability majorities and unfavorable view of both Biden and Trump mean that Yonkin is a very intriguing candidate . The Virginia governor also is more popular than both Biden and Trump , with independent voters as well . So this is just something
¶ Pride Parade and Yonkin's Politics
that's interesting . Now , for anybody who's curious , you know why isn't Yonkin in ? what's going on with that , from the information we have , we have some pretty good people around Yonkin . We know him a little bit we don't know him well , but he did come out here in campaign force and was one of the most impressive people I've met in politics . He really is .
He was fantastic .
Well , i mean , you know , I'm a big fan of Yonkin . I've talked about it publicly to a lot of different people . I think he just offers a completely different kind of personality and dynamic . I was , you know . we got to spend some one-on-one time with him when he did come out here , and he's just so smart . I mean he's humble , which I appreciate .
Yeah , definitely a Christian and lives that way . Just so we talked to some people about you know what may be going on here And apparently what's happening . first of all , they have a big election . Remember , virginia has those off-year elections , right , so he was elected in 2021 .
Now he's trying to get the legislature I think it's the Senate switched over to the Republican side . So , from what we hear , there's no way he's going to do anything before that .
So that's early November , right ? So then ?
potentially could he jump in , write early November and make a run at Iowa Now . Glenn Yonkin is a man of means . He has a lot of money . So , what he could do theoretically , if he wanted to do that , is jump in the race late , funded himself for a little while , not for too long , but do very well in Iowa , springboard himself forward and have a chance .
And I will tell you , he is somebody who I think broadly would be very attractive in this country . Oh , absolutely . I think he would be a very , very good president .
And he's honestly the guy . So when anybody comes at us and talks about you need to have all this government experience to run for office and blah , blah , blah , blah , blah Like you should start , i don't know student council and then city council and then I don't know post office elect and then whatever else right He is .
He ran for governor because he was concerned about what was going on in that state right And in the country . He had a successful business and stepped away from that to run for this .
Right , he's a hedge fund guy , a car law group , right .
And so he's just . I used him as an example because I think you know he's not a politician And I appreciate that as just a person Like he's just a normal guy who knows how to run some businesses and is very smart . So I would love to see this happen personally .
Yeah , no , And we look there are a lot of people running the Republican side that we really like .
Right , agree , i think the bench is nice and deep , which I like .
Yeah , it's gonna be good , it's gonna be really interesting . Can they catch President Trump ? and you know it's gonna be a fascinating race . And , by the way , my continued theory continues to come true .
What happened now ?
JB is in trouble again .
Oh gosh , it's only been a couple of days since we just discussed this .
Check this out . Cnn did a fact check on him . Okay , the cat who did this fact check . By the way , he also did a fact check on us during the governor's race .
Oh , I don't know this one I don't know where .
Just it's like a total gift to Michelle just to try to help her out . And so this guy does . Biden makes five false claims about guns . They're going after Biden from the left on guns saying he's a liar about guns . Well , of course he's been a liar about guns for years , but they've never done anything on it , right ?
I mean it's just ridiculous . They always just give it under the rug .
Yeah , and so they're starting to hit him again , And so this is again . this is just every day . just get ready , They're just chipping away .
It's a plan . It's a plan . It's like , okay , now we can start to leak some of this and let's get this out there And let's slowly remove him from being the candidates , the choice And yep , I'm telling you , this is all planned .
None of this Are you grabbing my theory now and trying to make it your own ?
I don't think that this is just your theory . Oh , you're trying to share this right now , are you really taking credit for the fact that nobody thinks Biden's gonna be the candidate ?
No , he's just not .
No , and my theory is that the media now are being told to make him look worse And actually put that out there . Put that message out there , show that he's not the strongest guy in there , So it's more acceptable that people are finding somebody else in the Democratic Party .
Yeah , it's gonna be ugly . It's gonna be ugly , get ready , it keeps going .
Well , it's just unbelievable that the media sometimes will . It seems like they will turn on their own as well . What a shocker when it serves them .
Well right , they're not doing the . they should have been doing this from the very beginning .
They should have been doing this in 2019 .
Right and he shouldn't , and there's no way he should have been president , but whatever . So that's where we are with that .
Right , I agree on that one . Okay , so what else do we have in here ?
Well , have you not looked at the prep sheet ? I mean , it's like you just show up here and you're like- .
I did just show up here . You know what I ?
really okay . All right , so let's I prepared for the interview .
Guy . That's the chunk that I'm managing . Is that okay ? Okay , all right . Okay , so look , this is one of those And my top . I had to spend a lot of time on my top . I know you did Believe me . It came out .
I know you have .
I just sew it actually , look I mean seriously talk about .
The biggest chance you've taken today is putting on that top . I mean it was a very risky move .
What is wrong ? I just don't get it . but anyway , No , no , no , no .
So , finally , we'll wrap with this before we go to the interview guy Yeah , yeah yeah , so Pride Parade and one of the chance that the Pride Parade is creating some issues , and so we wanna , first of all , we'll let you hear what the chant is and how really this is not representative of many people , i think you know , within the Pride movement honestly And I
don't pretend that this is , but this is where things are starting to divide out and become even more and more , you know , segmented and ugly . I mean this is ugly And so just let's just listen to what this . This is from New York City ["We're Here"] . So what they're saying is yeah .
What they're saying is we're here , we're queer , we're coming for your children .
Yeah .
And this is a couple of weeks after a girl or , i guess , a trans person , takes their shirt off in the front of the White House , front of the White House . Look , this is just disgusting , right , and I think that you know . And then you have so many different parades where you had people acting in a way that was just completely and totally inappropriate .
I mean , we were even looking at some of that video just to see if we should show some of it , and I said instantly absolutely not , because it's so graphic , it's so sexual , it's sex acts And it's trying to I don't know . Oh , we're so cutting edge and in your face or just disgusting , i have no idea .
And the people that are even remotely taking teenagers or anybody younger , i mean I can't even believe that you would take them to witness this stuff .
What makes you think Your sexual proclivities should be on display ? Nobody wants to see that . Nobody , i don't want to see it from anybody , right , and you don't have a right to that in front of everybody , so put it behind closed doors . And it's ridiculous . I mean , if we were to do that , it'd be crazy . Yeah , it's disgusting , right , so stop it .
And you don't have a right to it . It isn't something that you get to do to express yourself . Are you kidding ? It's called a decent exposure , idiot . Yeah , i mean , what do you think this is ? Yeah , stop it .
I mean , this is so weird And they've gone so far on this and so far beyond what is what a civilized society should do that this is turning very ugly very quickly , and I think it's going to , and I think it's splitting a lot of people in the gay community as well .
Right , right . I don't think this is like we talked about in a couple episodes ago , that I don't believe at all that this is what Pride was about originally by far , and that's what a lot of the gay people that I am friends with have said . This is not what we started about , this was not it at all .
And now this is becoming such hypersexual activity And really this we're coming , we're here , or , queer , we're coming for your children .
It's just , it is absolutely wanting to try to pick a fight with this country .
Right .
And trying to again blow the country apart , which again , and I think , we're talking about a 95-5 split in the country .
I know , ok , we're not talking about , but we're getting all this coverage onto them , so I understand that .
I just don't think they represent much at all as far as a total number of people in this country . I don't think they represented it at all . I think it's deviant C to go out there and do that in public . It's disgusting .
So whatever I mean , I And the question is will this die off at the end of June ?
Well , no , i don't . I don't know that it necessarily will , but I I don't know . I guess we'll have to wait and see . Do ?
we still give this a big platform . Does everybody feel like they still have to give this all a big platform and bring in ? I don't know ? whatever anybody wants to create a devil shirt or anything else and tie it into pride Like it's just demonic in a lot of ways .
So I hope that this just Yeah , it's not good , so And speaking of coming for your children . I don't know if you saw this New York Post article was actually written in in Wall Street Journal first , and it was really talking about this Instagram .
It's these recommendations that are that Instagram was making these algorithms that linked a vast pedophile network that advertised the sale of illicit child sex material on that platform . Now , supposedly what's happened is that this was done through hashtags , right , and so there's certain hashtags that are just not good , and basically , what it what ?
it was said that a woman apparently reported this to Instagram and said hey , have you noticed this is happening ? Blah , blah , blah , blah . So now this is their response . Instagram's response came back and said we have now shut down 490,000 accounts due to child safety in the name of child safety , and 27 networks have been shut down .
But the fact that it's even allowed on this platform , that was over the course of two years , by the way , so they just announced this last week and it's disturbing the fact that this is . I mean , how many people are on Instagram already ? But this is where they were making offers for kids . They were doing , i mean , just vile things on Instagram .
And this goes across country lines and all sorts of things like that . But we in the United States and we'll talk to Matt Osborne here in just a second we in the United States , we are the number one consumers of this stuff . That's right And it has to stop and it has to be addressed , and so part of that is the
¶ Fighting Child Sex Trafficking
sound of freedom .
Yeah , this movie , that is . I can't wait to see this movie . It looks like it's well produced . It's not just to some half budget kind of film It's going to .
really hopefully It's the people who do the chosen , so those of you who watch the chosen , which is a tremendous show it really is . It is our favorite show And if you don't know the Bible very well and want to spend some time understanding the humanity of Christ . it's a great show to watch because it brings him alive . Yeah , it really does .
It really does And it's based on scripture .
It's completely based on scripture . But Mark and I have talked about this , that on the chosen . When we watch it , it's like you get a visual in your head . So now when you read the gospels , you kind of have these characters that are portraying these guys that are portraying the disciples and Christ , And anyway .
So No , it's so good , and so what we want to do now is play the sound of freedom trailer .
Yes .
So you can hear it or watch it whichever you want to do . And then , once we come out of that , we'll talk to Matt Osborne about the work that they do , the way they've dedicated their lives to it , cause these guys walked out on a limb not knowing what was headed their way .
Yeah , and that was coming their way . And also we asked them specifically what should we be looking for as parents ? What ? how do we protect our kids more , And what should we be looking for in just everyday life that perhaps could help out ?
Okay , All right . here's the sound of freedom trailer . Check it out .
How many pedophiles he got 288 . How many kids he found . It is the fastest growing international crime network that the world has ever seen . It has already passed the illegal arms trade and soon it's gonna pass the drug trade . These you can sell a bag of cocaine one time with a child , five to 10 times a day . God's children are enough for sale .
How long you been doing this ? Four years now . How many pedophiles he got 288 . How many kids he found . I have I rescue children right . Can you help me find my sister ? I promise you We're Homeland Security . You know we can't go off rescuing Honduran kids in Colombia , which means she'll disappear For good .
I'm not your walking into her room right now , seeing it empty-bed . What we do ? You quit your job and you go and rescue those kids . So at this moment she could be a block down the road or she could be at Moscow , bangkok , la . She's a major operator . We saw a robot territory . No one goes in , not the army , not the police , not us .
What if this was your daughter ? There's no Marine unit coming . You're on your own . This job tears you to pieces And that's just not one chance to put those pieces back together . And God tells you what to do . You cannot hesitate .
Okay , so we are joined today by Matt Osborne . He spent 12 years in the CIA , so he's got quite a background And he joined the operation . He got into the operation Underground Railroad 12 years ago , would you say , or how long ago did you join ?
Yeah , almost right after we started in 2014 . So almost nine years . It's imagine how much time has passed .
Yeah , that's kind of crazy . Well , human trafficking obviously is a tough topic for a lot of people to talk about . It is uncomfortable , i think some people want to pretend it doesn't exist .
And it's not just because they don't have a heart , it's just when you feel like you don't know how to help out , how to fix the solution , how to help with any of this . You kind of want to avoid it . But obviously , if I read this right , it said that human trafficking is the second largest illicit industry in the US , second only to the drug trade .
Is that correct ?
It is . It's already eclipsed the illegal arms trade in terms of profitability And we think it's approaching the illegal drug trade . Because , again , how many times can you sell a quantity of drugs before it's used up one time ? How many times can you sell a person , a child , over and over again ?
I know it's a tough topic And I'm just grateful for Mark and you giving this platform to talk about this issue that's so important .
Yeah , we wanted to be able to talk about this Backing up a little bit . we , you know , operation Underground is this organization that's really dedicated 100% in the fight against child sex trafficking around the world And , like you said , you've been in business . you guys have been in business for nine years .
Yep coming up on 10 , yeah .
Coming up on 10 years . Matt , how did you get in the middle of this ? Talk to me a little bit about the transition from CIA , which actually it seems weird , but it's sort of a natural transition in a way , where you guys sort of led into this a little bit , and I know you worked closely with Tim Ballard . You two have been doing this for a long time .
Give us an idea of how you ended up where you are .
Well you bet . And again , if 10 years ago you would have told me I'd be doing this , i would not have believed it . But it's interesting how this path came .
¶ Undercover Mission to Rescue Trafficked Children
I had known a graduate school you know , graduate school colleague of mine at the Monterey Institute of International Studies , which is now the Middlebury Institute of International Studies in Monterey a guy by the name of Tim Ballard , and he and I were graduate school students together , talking about the government careers we wanted to have .
I will tell you , mark and Christie , i fell in love with the James Bond movies , the Jason Bourne movies . I'm nowhere near cool , as I am Those two guys , but I wanted to do something like that Learning languages , traveling overseas . Well , tim Ballard , he wanted to do the law enforcement route .
He wanted to protect US national security and go into fighting crime . Well , he and I kind of kept up with each other's careers over a period from around 2002 , 2003 , till about 2013 . He did some amazing work with the US Department of Homeland Security that we can talk about on your show .
I focus more on terrorism , threats against the homeland I served in , spain , mexico , venezuela , drug traffickers , organized crime And this thing that I had never heard of in the year 2006 , human trafficking . I admit I thought it was like the movie Pretty Woman , julia Roberts . You remember the lies in that movie that she was .
He decided who she was with , when , where , how . That doesn't happen anymore . It's all a pimp , it's all a predator controlling . Well , when I learned about this , i didn't really know what was happening at the time and God was kind of putting on my heart . This is what you need to do . Meanwhile , fast forward to year 2013 .
Tim Ballard calls me up and says I have this crazy idea to start this private organization , this nonprofit , to support governments in the US and around the world . Will you come join me and lead my undercover operations ? I prayed about it . My dad said you're crazy . You're giving up a pension and health care . My wife , now 25 years , said I love you , honey .
If you think you should do this , made a leap of faith , join my friend Tim Ballard , and we've been doing this now for nine years .
Well , i mean and you kind of tell that very in a very lighthearted manner but you know how tough this is And I think you know , mark and I and a lot of our listeners today , we don't really know what it means that you guys put an operation team together and what that looks like .
Can you kind of walk us through one of maybe one of the operations that you've done , where you've gone in and tried to save some kids , and tell us a little bit more about that ?
Yeah , and Christie , i'm glad you pointed that out . It is a dark topic . It's difficult . We do try to treat it with light . We try to treat it with hope because otherwise we would just go into a fetal position right And never , because this is child rape , this is child abuse . Tim was the really brave one .
He had to look at these child rape videos as a member of the homeland US Department of Homeland Security . He had to then figure out well , how do we actually work with governments overseas where there's a lot of corruption ? How do you work in Haiti and Mexico and other places like that ?
But he realized that Unfortunately , or fortunately , as I'll explain in a sec It's the American face that's causing this . Did you know our country ? We're the number one consumers and producers of what we used to call child pornography .
Now we say child sex abuse material , number one users and consumers , and we're the number one supplier of child sex tourists , people going overseas for tourism to have sex with , with kids and abused kids . So Tim saw that with this American face , we can take men and women overseas and he built his team .
You asked about how we put an operation together with former CIA , former Homeland Security , formal special forces . We work only with the host governments . We're not a vigilante organization . We go in through the front door . We don't go in at all . Well , how do we do it is ? we go in and talk to them and say , where is human trafficking happening ?
Oh well , it's at this beach , this bar and this red light district . Okay , well , we . You know , you can never play the role of an American tourist . You know , you , mexican federal police agent , you Dominican national police , let us go to your tourist areas within hours . We will have who , what , where , when , why , because they offer us everything .
We record that information , we turn it over to authorities . They then put the case together . Since the traffickers trust us , we can invite them to a party where they bring the kids . Law enforcement swoops in , make the arrest . We get the kids back to their parents or in the vetted aftercare homes and in .
Obviously these are situations where You have groups of people in an underground , that this is a dangerous deal too . So what are you guys doing here ? Are you armed ? Do you go ? How does this all work out ? the coordination with the , with the corresponding government .
Yeah , mark , great question . I got to tell you I was scared sometimes during my CIA career , but I always knew I would have Uncle Sam coming in , the cavalry coming in If anything happened . Here we're on our own , so we don't carry weapons and that's the scariest thing because , remember , we're playing tourists .
So , as you see , in the sound of freedom movie that made a joke about , we weren't wearing flip-flops , we're in Hawaiian shorts and shirts . We do have undercover cameras and hidden microphones to record high definition video and high quality audio to give to prosecutors to build the case . However we rehearse , we have our special forces guys ready to help .
We have an all-choreograph so that you know , because you can never eliminate risk in life . You can only reduce it and we try to reduce as much as possible . But I'll be honest , at the end of the day we do the best we can . We say a prayer and we say is this a dumb risk ? We won't do it .
But if it's a calculated risk worth trying to take to save kids , we will do it .
Last weekend , police broke up a major sex trafficking ring in Columbia , which has become a destination for tourists looking for sex with boys and girls . The police had help from an American who went undercover to rescue the children , and Elaine Kehanno met him .
Tim Ballard has one mission to track down child traffickers . Four months ago , Colombian authorities asked him to investigate a tip that children were being sold there as sex slaves .
Within a half hour , this individual walks up to me , starts asking me what I'm here for , what I want , and within Minutes he says well , i've got . I've got kids as young as 11 years old .
Ballard , a former homeland security agent , now heads up Operation Underground Railroad , a nonprofit group that rescues trafficked kids . After that first meeting , the Colombians asked him to put together a sting . No men will be in here , only women .
Operation Underground Railroad spent months planning Renting this house , rigging it with hidden cameras to document the crime , coordinating with Colombian authorities and negotiating with the traffickers how they find these kids , as they lure them in by pretending to have a modeling agency .
They target them at nine or ten years old and they were telling us that about by 11 . They're ready for sex . They're ready to be sold .
What is that like , looking into that kind of person's eyes ?
It's horrifying , and this is why because I've got a smile in the face of the evil . This is the table where we're gonna do the negotiation .
Less than 24 hours after the operatives landed , the Suspect of traffickers arrived on the island and the final deal the undercover team began 54 boys and girls aged 11 to 18 were ushered in for what had been billed as a sex party . They were given candy and drinks and told to wait in this small room .
This little 11 year old boy I remember he asked when my operatives if they could give him some cocaine or something that he said . They usually give me something , because I'm really scared . By the time the deal was done , the alleged traffickers were set to make $25,000 .
That transaction was never completed .
25 Colombian special operatives stormed the party , resting five suspects four men and one former beauty queen , all charged with child trafficking . The victims , 29 of whom are under 18 were evacuated .
In the first half of the year , the victims , 29 of whom are under 18 , were evacuated , given medical exams and placed in a rehabilitation center Where specialists are working to undo the damage right before I got in the boat We had to walk by the this room where the kids were and they put their hand up and I touched their hand and See that there's liberation
now .
Liberating one child at a time many kids have you guys saved so far as an organization ?
We track our statistics very carefully and what we say is we've had a role , some type of role , in the rescue of just over 7200 trafficking victims in nine years of existence . A slight majority are adults , 18 and over , but many of them are children . Now What does that mean ? have a small role ?
It's everything from our undercover operators in place the darkest corners of the world , or it's perhaps Funding groups in Cambodia or Thailand where , for the price of two of our operators to fly from the states over to Asia , for that price You pay for a whole month of a team in place and they get two , three , four rescues .
Sometimes we just provide equipment , we provide training , technology , but whatever we do , it is helping to rescue . And I'll say one more number We have helped in the arrest of almost 6,800 suspected predators , pedophiles , traffickers , which we think is an even exponentially more important number . I don't know if this stats true . I have to be careful .
I just read it somewhere an average pedophile in his life is likely to hurt over 100 people . Wow , you get them off the streets and there are kids who are being rescued , who didn't even know they were in danger .
So tell me a little bit . Like are these kids ? could you walk us right ? No , not every case is the same . But how you know these stats on kids ? I read somewhere out This is true or not , but that about eight million children are trafficked every year .
I don't know if that's a recent stat or not , but when I read that I think Where are these kids coming from ? How are they getting in ? you know , how are people taking advantage of them ? So when you're walking in as a tourist , a you know , aka undercover Agent to save these kids , what are you walking into and how do these kids get brought there ?
You know , numbers are very hard to nail down . Sometimes we use the international labor organizations figure . That says 40.3 million men , women and children in some sort of slavery today . But that's forced labor , commercial sexual exploitation , organ harvesting .
The FBI reported that some 800,000 kids in the US are at risk every year , but it's hard to see how many are tracked . So here's what I say .
I don't know what the number is , but I will tell you that on 24 different occasions with Operation Underground Railroad over the past nine years , i've gone in with a team to a different country and within minutes We're talking to someone on a beach bar , red light district , who's offering us everything from a shell necklace to , you know , cigarettes , trinkets , to
drugs , to girls . It's that quickly how we've been offered . Now This person is most likely the middleman and we talked to them . Let him know what we want . Within an hour We're sitting across the table from someone who is bargaining the life , the health , the freedom of a human being as if they were talking About a bag of potatoes , sack of limes .
It weighs this much , it costs this much , it'll do that . So does that make sense ? I don't know the numbers , but I never , ever gone in where I haven't been offered kids right .
You know what . It's interesting too , because if this is one of those issues where , especially even in the United States , we are living with this issue and I'm not sure there's a bigger issue that is right under our noses But we don't want to acknowledge it .
So for someone listening to this who says , you know , i don't know that I've ever been around this and we're in a border state here , and let me assure you you have , you have been around this , whether you know it or not . So when you talk to people about what to look for , what do you tell people ?
and are there things that we can do , just as normal citizens here in the US , to try to pull this problem back ?
And this is really what we need to do , and you said
¶ Combating Human Trafficking Through Film
it right . I think too many people either don't know or they don't wanna know because it's tough . Trust me , and Tim Ballard would say the same thing This is a dirty business , it's difficult , it's okay . People wanna be ostriches and stick their head in the sand . This is happening every day in every corner of the world .
All you have to do is look at advertisements and classified sections for adult finders , friends , men seeking women . These are just fronts , oftentimes for commercial sexual exploitation organizations . As I mentioned , we go overseas and it's offered up . There are brothels and Asian massage parlors and other places around the country where this just happens .
It's almost an open secret . And you talk about the border issue . I know New Mexico . It's a huge issue right now . What I oftentimes say is as much of a tragedy as it is for the kids who are showing up on the border . They're actually the lucky ones , aren't they ? Because we know where they are .
What happened to all the kids coming through Mexico , belize , guatemala , honduras , el Salvador ? they're either dead or they've been brought into trafficking organizations or other things .
And this is what we have to get to the demand side And maybe we'll have a chance to talk about this is we want to educate men mostly not all men , but men mostly that it's on us now That we have to realize that these are victims . These aren't volunteers . It's not pretty woman , julia Roberts . This is trafficking , it's not prostitution .
We need to get that word out And that's why we think , with sound of freedom , we are going to get that word out through Hollywood and through a film .
Let's talk about the film a little bit , because not everybody gets a film made about their organization with a star as big as Jim Caviesel . He played Christ in The Passion of the Christ . He's been , he's had a long career in Hollywood . Tell us a little bit about .
How did that get started , how did he get involved And what's the story there that people are going to be able to see .
Back in October of 2014 , tim Ballard and I led simultaneous operations in three cities . There was another operator code named Batman who led the third , so the three of us led operations on one day . Within a one hour period , we rescued 123 trafficking victims , 55 of those were minors , working in conjunction with Columbia's FBI equivalent .
Well , a Mexican director and producer saw a CBS Evening News clip and your viewers can look at YouTube Operation Underground Railroad and CBS News And you'll see the clip where a young Tim Ballard is being interviewed after the rescue .
Both of them saw that clip separately , called each other and said I just found your next action hero , i just found your next movie , and that's where this all started . So the script was written . It's based on a true story . It's Tim's decision to leave the government to join to start Operation Underground Railroad . It's talking about our different operations .
The movie culminates in one of these triple take operations in Columbia , but what we seek to do is we seek to educate and inspire and create awareness through Hollywood . We're big fans of American history . So our name of our organization , operation Underground Railroad Underground Railroad .
Tipping our hats to the heroes of the past in the Underground Railroad during the transatlantic slave trade . Harriet Beecher Stowe , as you know , wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin , using entertainment a book to raise awareness about a social scourge .
We're using movies and documentaries to raise awareness about modern day slavery , hoping we can create an army , and that's why we're so grateful to both of you for giving us this platform . Hopefully people will go see the movie and realize we can beat this . There's something that can be done .
Yeah , and I heard you guys have a goal . I could be wrong about this too , but you guys are trying to sell tickets before it launches . Sound of Freedom comes out on July 4th .
Yes , and know that you guys are trying to sell a certain amount of tickets even ahead of time , right From the number of kids you guys believe are still missing , or something to that . Can you educate us a little bit on that ?
Correct . We call it two million for two million . And again , here's the numbers , right , Is it two million ? One million is a three million . United Nations and UNICEF usually estimates around two to five million children are enslaved today . So we wanna sell two million tickets , raise two million dollars before that date , And OURrescueorg is our website OURrescueorg .
There's a link to Angel Studios Sound of Freedom . This movie will be in about 3,900 theaters around the country starting July 3rd , July 4th , running for about two weeks . The more tickets we can sell ahead of time , the more that theater owners will then extend this run and hopefully have more people put eyes on this very powerful film .
So tell us about like so you guys are doing your job , you're doing rescues , you're getting interviewed by the press and you get a phone call from Hollywood , right ? Are you guys like is this for real ? Is this ? I understand you guys kind of helped produce it as well . So tell me a little bit about that . Like , how much say did you guys have in it ?
Yeah , you're right . I think I didn't take the first phone call , but I think the response one of my colleagues was yeah , are we being punked ? You know ? yeah , and especially when it was .
We asked Jim Caviesal if he would play this part and he read the script and beyond , the passion of the Christ , which is one of my the most powerful movies , count of Money , christo , person of Interest . Well , i was on set in Columbia a few years ago with Jim consulting on the film .
Tim Ballard was there as well , and for Jim to say this is the second most important role that I've ever played , all of us are like yeah , I think we know the first . Exactly . That's some big shoes to fill . We then said well , we want this done right , we are very open with the filmmakers . We're not gonna have any gratuitous sex .
We're not gonna have anything right that a pedophile would like Really enjoy watching the movie . Right , it's very well done . It's PG-13 . So I'm sure you have a lot of parents in your among , your listeners , your audience . I would say that this is probably suitable for even a mature 11 or 12 year old .
No bad language , nothing like that , but it is powerful and it's a dark topic . However , we really worked , consulting with the producer and director , to make it very tastefully done .
You know , matt , sorry . Really quick , mark , and then I'll let you jump in .
Yeah , no yeah . You're on a roll go . What can I ?
always we find on the microphone a lot , just so you know , matt . But anyway , we have two teenage daughters . We have a 14 year old and a 16 year old . We're , i would you know , i've been called a helicopter parent because I do Yes . I do . I do really care about the health and safety of our kids and their friends and other kids and what they see .
What advice do you have , even for teenagers , whether they're or younger , that are here in America that might be getting either groomed or potentially you know , being pulled into a direction that's not healthy for them ? What would you say to them ? What are some very big , key things to have them be looking ?
for For parents too .
Yeah , absolutely Well . first I have to tease Mark . Mark , you have a 14 and 16 year old daughter . I have a 21 and an 18 year old , but look at all this gray hair that goes .
I'm gonna be gray hair .
It's coming , it's coming , believe me Well it may come , because I do think I got my gray hair during the years your daughters are going through . This is a dangerous time to be a teenager And , again , not to freak anyone out .
But , mark , as you know , when you and I were growing up , thank goodness for a lot of ways we didn't have a cell phone right , whether it's because I said stupid jokes back in the day that would have gotten me canceled today and I wasn't even a bad kid or , more perniciously , pornography , social media grooming .
So what I would say to parents and Chris , i love what you said be a helicopter parent . Trust me , be a helicopter parent . They may say I hate you . I hate you , until a few years from now , they'll say thank you , thank you . And how do you do that ? You set limits .
If you go as long as you can to give your before you give your kid a smartphone , trust me on that . I made the mistake . I made the mistake and I've been paying it ever since they were 12 years old . Make sure you know what apps they're looking at . Make sure you know that they know or , sorry , teach them the danger of people online .
Make sure they know that if you accept all these friend requests from people . Make sure young daughter , young son that you know exactly who that person is , because if you don't , you will never be able to tell if the profile picture that you just accepted is truly of a 16 year old girl or a 55 year old man . It's that simple .
For sons gaming and again , it's a stereotype . I know daughters game too , but I have nephews Online gaming with strangers . I'm not gonna say don't play the game . I am gonna say don't talk to strangers about anything not related to the game . Don't give any personal information out And just always remember that you have to walk that fine line .
As a parent , you don't wanna really totally freak them out , but you wanna have them say when I was using this , the CIA taught us functional paranoia . Make sure they have functional paranoia .
I like that .
You know it's funny too , and you brought up a little bit of this at the beginning of this conversation . I wanna get back to this . You know it's easy to talk about certain things we can do . It may be not always easy , but it's important to talk about those things .
It's also important to talk about what role faith has in a family's life , and especially in yours . So , matt , when you look back at this whole project and you look back at the door that got opened for you , what is your as you see everything and the good things that you guys have done ?
I know you couldn't have imagined this when it all started , that you didn't have that whole view , but how important was that door that got opened for you , and where are you now in this and how has it changed you ?
Yeah , great question . I'm sure I'm like everyone else . I have no idea what will happen tomorrow or what more of my life will lead , but as I look back I see how everything had to come together . I believe in my situation God gave me two daughters for a reason . Maybe he had a sense of humor . He was getting me back for being a jerk .
You know , when I was younger .
Yeah , I agree on that .
I think , though , he knew that I had to go to the CIA because I needed those skills . I needed to be able to work undercover , learn languages , but I needed to be exposed to trafficking in persons , human trafficking , in an age when I could do something about it .
Then I think he wanted me to be led to support Tim Ballard , to a multi-faith organization where we have actually people of about probably four or five different faiths , people who claim to not be a faith in an organization , which is fine , although I think they still know a difference between right and wrong .
But what it all came down to me is you know , i love the Bible and I oftentimes say whatever's in the Bible . I think it's important if it's said , if it's said more than once . Pay attention .
And , as you both know , in three of the four gospels , christ said it would be better for him that a millstone be put around his neck and he'd be cast in the middle of the sea and I'm just paraphrasing than for him to offend one of these children or cause one of these children to sin .
That's what these traffickers are doing , that's what these pedophiles are doing . So I'm not a vengeful person , i'm not out for vengeance , but I know God is not neutral in this struggle . God wants his precious children protected .
Obviously , he gives us all free will and choice , so bad things are gonna happen , but I believe organizations like Operation Underground Railroad and others are supposed to partner with men and women of all faiths to fight this , and that's what we're trying to do here at OU .
Well , yeah , and you know some of you guys I know . Going back Tim , i had read a bit about his bio . I don't know about you , but I would have a hard time doing this because of how much impact as a dad . You walk into this room .
How do you go , do your job and do it well and keep your wits about you when it's when you're pretending to basically be a scumbag in the process ?
Yeah , exactly . And Tim has nine kids , and so what he says is because their age range now is maybe six , seven years old , up to about 22 years old . But imagine several years ago when we first started . So almost every child he would come face to face with trying to save would be about the age of one of his children .
So he'd be able to say that's my child , that's that child , that's that child . Well , with my two daughters , the way I looked at it is shouldn't every girl in this case when we're trying to rescue ? but boys as well have the same chance or be as lucky as my daughters ? And that's what I would try
¶ Fighting Child Exploitation and Taking Action
to do . But it was very difficult to have to play this role . And , again , we have standard operating procedures in place where we're not gonna ever be in a compromising position with a victim . We're not gonna do anything to further exploit them . But you have to say , yeah , look your lips , that's awesome . Yeah , you know she's great .
I'm thinking I wanna throw up . I wanna throw up , i wanna strangle , and what gets me through is just this idea of if you can just keep it together , you can just hold in character , if you do this right , then that child will be safe . And that's one kind of way that affects me And I'll share one more here .
On the opposite , the flip side , even though I've tried to explain to my daughters how blessed they are to be American citizens and be in this country , how blessed they are with the life they have , and I tell them about some of the girls we're trying to rescue , the victims and survivors I can't tell you how many times I've come home from an operation totally
deflated and defeated And my daughters would say , dad , today's the worst day in my life . Oh , my gosh , what happens to me ? My iPhone screen got a crack in it , right . What am I supposed to do there ?
Perspective , right , some perspective . So just , do you guys mainly work with rescuing kids outside of our country , or do you ever do anything in the US ?
So that's a great distinction . Thank you , chrissy . So in the US we do not do any of the hands-on . We don't cross the line of law enforcement Police , sheriff's office , prosecutors . They have the men and women there who have the tools , their sworn law enforcement . What we do , though , behind the scenes .
do they need funding , do they need training , specialized tools , technology ? We have these canines . I don't know if you've heard about those . You've heard of a drug sniffing dog , bomb sniffing dog .
There are dogs that can sniff out the electronic components in cell phones , sd cards , usbs , where the child pornography , child sex abuse material is being held in store . So that costs about $15,000 or $20,000 to train the dogs . We provide those dogs to law enforcement all behind the scenes .
Overseas we do the behind the scenes , but overseas we're allowed by each country . We then use the American face . So if that helps a little bit , with some 40 countries overseas and we have provided some support in the US in all 50 states .
So one thing that's kind of interesting here and this does kind of broaden out our discussion a little bit into where we are as a country And I know I've heard Tim talk about this and I know you have feelings on it And that is what we teach in schools and how we're starting to tear down these barriers and introduce more sexualized content to kids that are
too young to handle it . And then , at the same time , you have some of the gender issues as well that are starting to leak in here . Do you see that as a threat to expanding child exploitation , not only here but across the world ?
100% yes . And the way I answer that is by saying if you were to ask me what is the back story of almost every pedophile we've helped arrest , well , they fall into three different categories . One had some child abuse when they were very young , so no fault of their own , but then their brain gets warped , kind of stuck at that age .
That's then the age that they're attracted to . Second is a pornography addiction and that's where huge pornography on the phones , on the laptops , which gets in a little bit of the schools , that's kind of what's being taught . When sex ed is being taught to a three-year or four-year-old , that actually is pornography because the brains are not able to handle that .
And the third category are just these toxic masculinity boys . Weekends , let's go out and let's let . It's an even trade . I want their body , they want my money . That way we have to do some education .
But getting into your question mark is this whole idea of this pornography , this normalization , this sex ed and introduced to kids when their brains are not formed yet , that the studies are just now showing , and I don't think we're really going to know for another five , 10 or more years that I believe is going to warp some brains at that age and lead to some
issues later on in life . So that's why Tim is very active in this sort of fight to look , there's a time for sex ed . There's a way to teach it . Please don't get younger and younger . Let's let children be children and have childhoods . Please .
And let the parents have a voice in that as well . Don't remove the parent from those conversations . Okay , so obviously you guys . This is a massive organization that you guys have put together . There's all kinds of ways , i believe , that people can help out . Can you other than I mean ?
the simple way and probably the most entertaining way this way is to go buy a movie ticket . Just go see Sound of Freedom starting July 4th in theaters . But if you can't make it to the theater or you wanna go beyond that , what can people do ?
Absolutely . Thanks for that question . So , tim Ballard , and I always say to anyone who asks , you will know before we do what you particularly can do . Maybe you have connections to law enforcement . Again , we have to work through and we'll only work through law enforcement . So can you connect us to police chiefs , sheriffs ?
maybe the two of you in New Mexico know law enforcement agencies that would be interested in our tools .
We do .
We can say this is how you do it . We say how can we help you ? Perhaps prosecutors , politicians , maybe there are connections to aftercare homes We can help , maybe it's you can post on social media , maybe there are ways that you can share , and then I will tell you that , obviously , donations . We need donations more than ever .
So our website , orrescueorg , help us to outfit more teams , launch more operations , helping more aftercare .
We believe , when the Sound of Freedom comes out and you're absolutely right that we hope people do go to the theater we think that there's gonna be a demand for OUR operators in more countries and more states , because this is gonna be such a high profile movie , led by Jim Caviesel and in a really award winning cast .
Now that's great . Now we'll get you out of here on this and it's more of a personal question for you You mentioned talking to your wife about taking a risk , about walking into something where there were no guarantees And , in fact , if you were doing everything out on paper , you never should have done it right , and it'd be the same thing with Tim .
So for somebody sitting here that's gonna be listening to this , that's thought about taking a jump , and they feel like God's put something on their heart , but it's a lot easier to talk about it than to actually do it . What do you tell them ?
Well , i think you said right now , if they think God's putting it on your heart or maybe you don't know yet and you wanna know it really is . It's the prayer , it's maybe even fasting , it's really asking God and this I'll use my example God , i wanna do your will , i wanna go where you want me to go . I don't know where it is .
Or , god , i think you're wanting me to go down this path . I'm really scared . You please give me that confirmation . But here's one thing I know people aren't gonna wanna hear it because I didn't wanna hear it . I did not get super clear answers .
I got enough answers , but the feeling I got when I prayed was hey , matt , you start going down that road , you exercise faith , and then I'll support you . Faith precedes the miracle . That would be my advice . If you truly feel you might have to step out on that ledge , you may even have to jump and trust that God will catch you and carry you .
At the end . Yeah , that's good advice . That's good advice . We are gonna include in our show notes information about Operation Underground Railroad , as well as the film and where you guys can buy tickets and where you can make donations . So if you're interested in that , please go to our show notes .
Matt , thank you for your time And really just for I mean honestly , you come in here with a bright smile on your face . You know you're doing the Lord's work , but you're also you know how challenging and dark it is And I appreciate you just trying to share in a way that isn't so heavy that somebody wants to tune out and not listen to us .
We really appreciate your time today .
Keep up the good work . Thanks , matt Matt Osborn . Thanks . You're listening to the . No .
Doubt About It ? podcast Back to your hosts , Christy and Mark Ronchetti .
Wow , i mean powerful interview , not the easiest topic , but obviously these guys their hearts in the right place And they're really . I mean they just go after it .
And .
I , i , really I couldn't appreciate what they're doing more , so I'm glad for the information . Thank you , matt . Once again , thank you , operation Underground Railroad . We're gonna put those in our show notes . So if you guys want to find out more information about how you can help out , we're gonna have those in our show notes .
And we're headed out for the 4th of July week coming up right . We'll have some fun vacation time for everybody And we hope you have a good time celebrating the 4th of July And when we come back we have a special treat .
We do . We will be talking to a political consultant , jay McCleskey , who helped us with our campaigns , was a big part of what Susanna Martinez did , and he's a really interesting guy . For those of you who don't know much about politics , he's very he's smart guy and he's fun to talk to .
For those of you who do you know , know his name and know what he's all about , i think you really don't know him . Know him .
I was gonna say , yeah , there's a lot of people that don't really know what he's about , because he stays behind the scenes a lot .
So , we've put him in the hot seat and we've asked him a lot of questions And I think this will be interesting for anybody that was interested in following the campaign and kind of wanting to know what happened , where we saw things where it was .
Yeah , we'll ask him a bunch of stuff about stories that we went through along the way . It's fun .
Yeah , it'll be a fun piece . And it'll be on Tuesday , on the on July 11th , so join us back at that time . Yes , we will .
And have a great 4th of July . Please be safe . God bless you , god bless your families And we'll see you back here on the 11th of July .
You've been listening to the No Doubt About It podcast . We hope you've enjoyed the show . We know we had a blast . Make sure to like , rate and review . We'll be back soon , But in the meantime you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at No Doubt About It podcast .
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