Conversations About Gang Violence feat. Alex Alonzo

a positive light. And I noticed it was another conversation that was Charlotte Magne and Van Lathan and they feel like, I have this weird outlook on gangs because their outlook is rooted in like negativity, and um, their their outlook is rooted in negativity based off ignorance, like they don't have any experience, any understanding, feel me. So I noticed that there's this this expression that goes along with any

time communities class, right, anytime these poor communities class. There's this expression that I've always seen us and normally it's white people, Pete who uses it like newspeople, and they'll be like, oh, senseless violence, and that's their line, like, oh senseless violence. And I could know the situation right, being in the streets, Like you know, I got the street I'm subscribed to the street newspaper, so all of the street news is gonna come right to my phone.

I'm gonna be able to decipher all information. I'm gonna know what happened to a T. So it's weird to me, right, And I understand why a news anchor will call it sense lists they they say anything about that with violence particularly that's like gun related. I don't always right now, they cover the Russian Ukraine War and I've never heard them reference it as senseless violence, right, So that's also military. There's never any senseless military action ever ever, which is

my point. But so I give the news people a past because they are not informed on the actual conflict. So then they just referenced it as senseless. Right, when they have no information on the conflict, the natural thing to do is referenced as senseless. M hm. I am informed. I brought my buddy Alex Alonso on here, somebody who's I've always consulted on gain anything community culture related, and

just as much as I'm vested in it, he studies it. Yes, or So it's weird to me to always hear that, right, But I understand those news anchors have no idea what's going on. They are avoided and they have no idea

of the facts. My issue is when people within the community when we birth success, well we birth successful people and then they become successful, and then they go and get with the same news people or ignorant people and promote the violence as senseless versus making sense out of it for people to get information, you know what I'm saying,

So maybe they can help with the conflict. Yeah, In general, I think that the truth is halfway between your perspective and like Charlemagne advanced perspective where they're not hands on, first person involved, but you're so personally involved that you can't it the forest for the tree is, so to speak. I don't. I don't know, because how is it senseless? Like okay, because because there's not productive big picture, but again, productive big pictures all like perspective base right, that's all

based and and that's what I was getting at. But I don't know if that makes it wrong to say somebody's world doesn't matter because your world is of what

you feel is a grander scale. It's kind of like that's just pretty much discriminating on the value of somebody's life, like you reduce at that point, these people lives don't matter, right at that point, then if if it's just if you can make sense out of World War two and you can't make sense out of the sixty versus the eight Trades, if you can make sense out of you know, nine eleven and the war between al Quainta, but you can't make sense out of the sixties and the trades.

I think at some place you're just being you're being ridiculous. It's an ignorant like, Okay, it's different if you don't have any information, right and you just see some nig is killing each other, right, you just see some black people, poor black people killing each other. That's all it looks like to you. Oh, they're just killing each other. But if you have details on the fact of someone loved one getting killed, you know, a thousand different things, then

it starts to make sense. Hey, if we think of this as as ah on a geographic scale. I studied geography for a long time. And what Peter is talking about, which which he used the term big production or production big picture, that's macro level conflict. But what glasses is

talking about crips and bloods, essays North Daniel Sudaniels. In geography, we call that micro level conflict, and you can take the same rules and apply that to macro level as you can to the micro level, to where there's almost no difference between what's causing the conflict on these two different levels, because there is big picture or production big production on the micro level. Their families, there are kids,

there are parents. Uh, there are street rules. The street rules run large urban cities, and the street rules that get violated end up in micro level conflict. So I look at it as all the same, and the rules exists to keep peace. Like the rules are not just there to cause conflict. There no different than laws. It's there to keep peace. Yea, I didn't mean it in a scale of physical space. I mean it in a

scale of like chronological time. More so, I thought you was meaning it in the scale of financial value, like that there is more money in the war in Afghanistan there is in the war between the sixties and a trades, but the values of the lives are the same. Yeah. I mentioned in the sense that like there's not a big picture end game of time for like a defined outcome with consideration of the local ancillary costs that are caused by the conflict, like within the neighborhood over a

twenty to thirty year scale. I'm not going to disagree with that, but but I also think that makes the intentions pure. Whose intentions the intentions of the war itself? The fight is well, yeah, for sure, it's not done for because what you said in so many words is it wasn't done because you know, they took somebody life.

It was done with a with an underlying issue. Even if to us they promoted the lives loss of nine eleven was the reason they decided to start this war on al Qaida, we both know there's an underlying, you know, cunning thing below it that that's the real reason. But I don't know if that's worth more or just you just a bigger piece of ship. Yeah, Like they're like, there's more immediate integrity to an organic, you know, war

between two neighborhoods. But but there's also more. If you look at in a square mile, there's what fifty people in population in a square mile in South l a ballpark, but what four percent maybe gang bang maybe one percent? So there's an ancillary negative cost to the other x percent of people that aren't involved in the conflict who have to endure, you know, some sort of an l as a result of its existence. Civilion. But isn't that like all wars at that, like like, and this is

the tricky part, right because growing up in the community. Right, So, yeah, there's only so many participating people in the military side. But let me tell you something that's not really spoken of for some read First off, hold up, I'm tripping no seillers, g l my Man, Peter boss I got the big home me Alex Alonzo, Criminologists, you know, street culturists, you know, uh, understanding and study or of the fine arts when it comes to Los Angeles streets and everything surrounding.

So the same thing happens in these big wars. I mean when you right now, it's a ton of innocent

lives being lost in the war between Russia and Ukraine. Tons, probably way more, right, But this is the tricky thing about you know, the community, right, So yes, right, let's say on the seven since they built the one oh five, right, is it's only so many maybe it's a hundred participants in the military that's a hundred and seven streets it's only a hundred willing participants in the military, right, that's

a hundred of seventeen street wats. But that don't mean the majority of the community are not the actual culture that is a hundred and sevent t street watch. They're just not active in the military. Most people that grow up in these communities, because they grow up with each other, are very much like community base. They just don't do the same things when it comes to crime, but they very much are family and and committed to the members

of the community, if that makes sense. Like everybody in America is not, you know, in the military, but everybody supports the military. Does that make sense? Not everybody? Yeah? Now imagine I work with a lot of defense attorneys, and when we go on trial for murder, I have to convince this jury that the reasons that this conflict exists in the first place is basically for the same issues we're talking about here, that there is a greater

reason why this is going on. There's an historical context of why this is going on and on, and sometimes there's actually a reason for a person A killing person B that could be rooted in um I felt my life was threatened, for example, or if I didn't do it, they were gonna do it. Um. For most of the time,

jurors do not care about street violence. But once I put it in the context of macro level violence, and it's not too much different from the reason why the United States was in Afghanistan for twenty years, some jurors start to get it. Some jurors will say, Okay, they'll open up their mind and say, maybe I should look at this case, Maybe I should look at this conflict

through different lenses. And it is a challenge. Man. We've got a jury that's you know, ten ten white folks, usually nine in ten white folks after the most part

do not care about this stuff. And which is weird because that's the terminology when they say a jury of your peers, like based off where you live, the term peers changes, like every experience in Los Angeles is not the exact same, especially at economically, like that literally becomes tears of living, Like the whole thing changes depending on how much money you make where you live. That changes everything about the community, not even your race, right Pete

is where you live. You can live in Beverly Hills and that experience is totally different being a black man in Beverly Hills and being a black man and watch night and day, night and day. So uh, and that's dope, that's a really important job. I'm glad I didn't. I didn't even know that's what you do, but I always

assume that's something close to what you do. But I was saying that if if you literally can look at what's peers, what the word piers means, like, they would change jurors and they would fight for different kind of jurors based off of the community. It's a lot of things to work out, but it's really it really matters.

Like if we go back to the origin right of one of the oldest you know, crep beefs, right, which is the sixties, and they trades, right, this is something in the seventies, late seventies, but love it, brother, Right, a minor was murdered right over a simple phistical, you know squabble. That's normal, normal business. There's normal amongst our communities, poor communities to fight to solve problems. You know, it's actually not crazy. It actually happens at the highest levels

a lot of times. Right, But they decided to solve it with a physical altercation that we're gonna fight, and somebody went too far that wasn't familiar with the communities, those two communities relationships. One person made a decision that went too far. So then because they couldn't find resolution. There was one resolution asked for, and because they couldn't find it, it resulted in what we have today, which is you know award that's forty years old at this point, right,

but it is very sensible. If you don't understand how somebody getting killed, right, how somebody getting killed and you feeling like another community is responsible and not doing things to provide a resolution, it could cause more lives. I've heard this a thousand times. When I explained it to then, you know, he tries his best to understand, but he's like, well,

why they just didn't sit down and talk? And I would say to him, well, why when the Twin Towers got bombed, did in America go and sit down with al Qaeda's leadership and say, hey, we need to work this out so nobody else loses their life. Why is Russian not sitting there with Ukraine deciding to say whatever we're doing is for it's not worth people losing their lives, like what makes like what is a life worth? At

that point? I think that brings up to like two small kind of contextual you know, schisms here a little bit like one of them, a like history would tell us at least it's view through the through the lens of there are you know, quote unquote good wars and bad wars or better wars than others you know, to be involved in. And there's a runce between rational and sensible,

you know. And also I think a question or two that are worth asking for this conversation as far as like trying to bridge the gap between the two points, is what is the defined end game and what is

the positive outcome for the non participants nearby? You know, Like if you were talking about we're gonna engage in a war two topple the Third Reich, we know what the end game is and we know who the beneficiaries are that aren't actually involved in the conflict but are nearby, Like what are like like those questions I feel like are not beautifully answered with regard to say six eight trays forty year long, But you is that really what happened in World War two? Like you know, in real time.

That's not actually what happened. We didn't enter the war to topple the third right, I think I think once awhere the war, we entered the war to aid in that cause. That was effectively started the war because somebody brought the war to us. Like but before that, just like now, we were playing behind curtains and doing small, little kind of cheap fucked up things, right, supporting people,

picking aside, but not actually participate. And it wasn't until right, uh, the war was brought to our soil that we decided to go full force. Because if that was a case, if it was all about topping the third right, the nuclear bonds went to the wrong place. Well you the Afghanistan and Iraq war as a better example. The the goal was to take down Osama bin Lading. Oh they took didn't Barack Obama killed or someone been lobbing in two thousand and eleven, So then while we were in

the war for nine more years. So I think that when they articulate these end goals, it is a way to get the American public to say, Okay, we're with that, but then we forget about the end goal has been already been achieved. So why are you guys still fighting? Why is there still bloodshed? Why is there still conflict for another decade? Almost so, I don't you know those end goals that are presented at these press conferences by the media. I just think it's all smoking to get

the American public to support it. It's great marketing for whatever reason. And and that's what and that's why initially said to you, p it is it's all about everybody's fighting for the same things. How you spend it to the general public is important. And what I like to believe with no seilings and what we do is we way behind the curtains. We're not even staring at the

magic trick. No more so if we say, even in World War two, right, the goal was to to to counter the third right like well, the the actual nuclear bonds went to the wrong place. But again that's a time frame standpoint, you know, like the U S would have would have eventually gotten into Europe full throttle. It was, it was happening that way, and then Pearl Harbor happened in the process, like the Atlantic and Pacific theaters historically

two very separate wars. But Peter, I got a question remember when the goal under Bush when they went into Iraq and Afghanistan was to find w m d s. When you have a goal of finding something that's never going to happen, then there is no end goal. Because here we are twenty years later, and I believe the consensus is Iraq never had w m d s. That's nonsense. They were in Syria, they were used, and we know

they were used. They were never found in Iraq. They never Yeah, but there's there's there's evidence and intelligence that suggests they were trucked into Syria from Iraq and giant in large military convoys. Is the tricky word. And again pet private journalists, not government. It's always governed me. They blamed the don who saying I'm participating in the w m D program, which they never they never proved. Saddam Hussein Interact was supposed to be involved in the w

m D program. I understand that I'm I wasn't like I'm pro Iraq intervention war, but but the idea that in a real time he wasn't stone walling and searches while transporting that stuff to Syria that was then actually used in Syria that we know about that they didn't have a create on their own or trade for that's all real, like that literally happened, like you can like Syrian make that stuff and they weren't shipped it. That's

how they got it. More than then then my question is we know countries that actually have in Iran has been involved in w m D programs. How many bombs have we dropped the wounds the last time we invaded Iran? That ain't gonna happen, you know, So all of these like justifications to war, man, it's all it's you gott admit it's a lot of propaganda behind these explanations and

justifications to a lot of this macro level conflicts. There's there's certainly in the US government like speaking, there's two tiers of wars. I mean, like and it's even easy if you could point to in most cases, like there's that line the sand where there was Congress declaring war and then there was these quote unquote military conflicts that go on for a hundred years because it's convenient, you know, and those are not the same thing all like like

that would be Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam. Even though Ukraine thing there was an opportunity for Ukraine and Russia to settle that. In April, international interests had raised a hundred billion dollars in funding for this thing, and they said, no, we're not going to settle. And now it's gonna cost probably seventy five thousand Ukrainian lives at least for that cause. But but they want a squabble. Yeah, and and sometimes people want to squabble, and and and it's not really

a crazy thought. I've watched people. But they are both senseless, you could say, but they will never reference it the national But well, it depends. I mean, there's a lot of people who say that the second Iraq and Afghanistan wars worse, senseless, who want to call George W. Bush o war criminal. That is true, but at that point

it becomes perspective versus an overall label. Like if media finds the narrative, the media defines that narrative that way, By and large, it depends on who is the narrative, not not not Vietnam, yes, but not that one. Vietnam for sure gets a horrible title. But but again that's my point, like where maybe we're like, like we don't have the information, so we're giving it based off the

information we have. But to say that somebody's reason of fighting is system is because you can't make sense out of it, I don't know, man, I just I don't think that's really the good question, Like, well, okay, it is the question I'm trying to Like, there's a lot of hats, you know, at the table, Like there's there's the local media perspective, there's the Charlemagne Van perspective, and there's your perspective, and there's a lot of pronouns floating

around that are kind of confusing the situation at least a little bit. To me, I'm less concerned with the NBC Local news perspective personally, which again, that's just me. I'm only one of the three people sitting here. Um. I think, for like Charlemagne and Van, their ultimate underlying question at the end of the day, and I don't know if they ask it blatantly or not, but it sounds like they're pointing in that direction. Is the community

in general? But when points A, B, C, and D better or worse for having gang violent gang conflicts within it or A posted it, that my point so that that's where it gets tricky. I don't think none of these. I don't think Germany is a better place that what then than it was before because of World War Two? I don't think. I don't think America is a better place because of it. It's all the perspective of what you think could happen. Are you trying to prevent what

you think can happen? Or you reacting to what has happened? M Um does every time? Does when? Every time when a hundred and seventeen street watch crypt goes towards does everybody in the community sign on? Hell? No? But when has everybody in which country? The only time I can remember America everybody signing on was at the nine eleven.

America was not a better place after going to war right with with the with the Taliban, like what you know, being present in the Middle East right there, it wasn't a better place. It's not a better place now. Ship still happening right now? Or I think the question is has to just be revenged. Are these other places better places that the US is better? Is Afghanistan better? Yeah? They destroyed Aliban lands better? I think we'd all say probably not. They have destroyed these places. So when is

when is? And that's what I'm saying Pete like even from Vanish Charlotte Mage level, When is there a proper reason to fight? When is there a reason to fight? When is there is there a reason to kill? Is there a reason to fight? These are really the questions This reminds me of when I was studying native tribes that we're living here and what we call the U S and the eighteen hundreds, their land was completely invaded

by US and Spanish governments. But then when they retaliated against the U S and Spanish presence, they were considered the bad people. They were considered um, the assailants, and and a lot of American people by that rhetoric. You know, the Apache Indians running through uh An area where Americans live, killing them all off um is considered bad. But the United States killed a whole bunch of Apaches to occupy

that space. And we could call that type of conflict micro level because in the eighteen hundreds, you know, the governments were small, and these tribal and are really small. But there's always a justification to explain why one side is having conflict with the other side, And we could call all of that senseless. Why couldn't we just leave these native tribes alone, let them occupy their space and

respect their land. Mm hmm. Yeah. The Seminole Indians, they went through treacherous wars with the United States government, the Spanish government, and every time they retaliated to kill they were considered the villains. Even to this day, we considered a lot of of the native tribes on US soil of the villains. All they were doing was reacting and defending and they get savages. That's that's that's crazy. Yeah,

we call them savages. Wait a minute, you're right, you're right, right, But but you know what, they engaged in savage behavior quote unquote to defend themselves and defend their land, and of course it was some people call it all senseless. Or how about this Nat Turner decides, I don't want to lead uh anti slave revolt. That's gonna kill fifty white folks. Now, history treats Nat tap Turner in different ways.

Some say he's a hero, Others say he didn't need to kill he didn't need to kill fifty white folks. But what he did thirty or forty years before emancipation certainly opened up that conversation to where we have in the eighteen sixty five, the Emancipation Proclamation. We have of the slavery being abolished in the US, we have people becoming free. So so how do we judge that Turner for doing what he did? Decide I'm gonna rise against

the slave owner. I'm gonna rise against the white man, and these next couple of days, I'm gonna kill fifty of them. Game him for that or do we understand? Does that make sense? My question is does this person understand an Turner perspective? All the examples you just gave, without exception, have an end game imaginable? What is the end game in the conflict between They all have an end game. I don't think that he was going to get away with it. The ultimate golf for an uprising

is to liberate. I don't want to. I don't think he thought to himself that he was going to pull it off. Sometimes some people think they're the spark to pulling something off. But there's something to pull off. Yeah, But but at that point it all starts with one simple thing, right, So, like, all I'm asking is what's

the something to pull off the game? Right? Yes, Well, if if if there's a group of guys that's serving dope on my on a corner that's two blocks away from me, and that's a little too close to our hood. The end game is to push those dudes back about two or three blocks back into their space because I don't do anything to If I don't have that end game, then they're gonna keep encroaching, keep encroaching, and and they're

gonna be tapping into my funds. Sense that that can be considered an end game trade lines, trade sure, and economically trying to earn right, Okay, well, but that's the point. Like what's the end game per se of of going into the Middle East? You know, a rooted around nine

eleven part end game after nine eleven? Or was it the fact that like very much Ronald Reagan, very much, uh Barack Obama who was not eleven President George George H. Jr. Um the second you know, or g W, I don't know what they call the end game was it was similar like now you can see like that similar Iran government hamas type of relationship where there's quote unquote non governmental military factions that are being provided safe haven to

operate by local governments. So the goal ultimately would be We're going to displace this government who's providing safe haven for a non government military outfit. We're going to try to take down the non government military outfit and put somebody in charge of the country is not going to continue to provide safe haven and funding for an outfit that commits military actions against other parties without having a

flag under which to fly. So that's a great point, right, But do you think that's what they marketed or do you think they marketed revenge? It was exactly it was revenge. How about this as an endgame marketable point was revenged? The United States can never allow any sort of government or quasi government to attack without there being a violent response to it. And in that sense, the end game is to say to the rest of the world, look what we're about to do to this quasi government or

what they did to us. And that's what the end game is in almost every street conflict. You came and killed my homie, There's there's ten other hoods that saw that. We just lost one, and if we don't do anything, we're gonna look weak. So we have to re kind and N eleven. Yeah, you want to discourage other country slash communities from committing such atrocities, you know, on your

on your citizens, or on your land. And that's what George Bush actually said that ron Reagan said when he was going to mash so, oh boy, they got locked off in North Africa. You know, he got knocked off a couple of years ago. Kadafi, like Ronald Reagan, said that if you think you're gonna do this to American people, it happened in another country that he had problems with,

I mean, and they're trying to figure it out. And other people did it, but they say he funded or provided the weapons, and he spoke to him directly on TV in a tone of revenge. And that going at the most of court right from Americans. Because every human being, no matter the most sophisticated to the poorest person, understand the concept of revenge. We all say we don't deal in revenge because it's an endless trail of blood, right, it will keep going and going and going. So that's

why we established laws and justice and all that. But we still at the top level, at the military level, operate out of revenge. Mostly every war or every atrocity we have done as a country has been out of revenge. Like I agree with you. Right when we was looking at World War Two, we wasn't really in it. We were supporting, you know, just like right now we're sanctions certain things we were doing to to to aside with the people that we agree with their policies, Right, is

that fair to say? Yeah, you could say World War two was also revenge because the United States are involved in that war until they dropped the bomb on Pearl Harbor and twelve hundred U S soldiers died. But but that the Atlantic theater was imminent. That was going to happen without that. But what what would have happened without that is imperials are pan would would effectively have owned from a definite period of time half the Pacific rim at least. Listen, that's but that's my point. I don't

think that the U S would have even cared. But but but my point is, Pete, they were literally this is what happens in the streets. Everybody takes sides, right, so they take sides, depending on how loud you want everybody to know you takeing sides and where you're gonna participate. It's for a reason, right, they're taking sides right there, identifying. We have the same superpower structure right to some degree.

At one time in Compton, just like the the access powers, you had gangs clicking up, communities clicking up, right, you had Nutty South Atlantic, you had a Cajun town forms, you have Front Palmer Tana. Yet all of these communities right forming these access power clicks to deal with conflict or just define togetherness, you know, within communities, just like World War Two, Like it literally happened, just like that.

So why I do agree with you the Atlantic theater would have happened, But the reality is it was different when they came and fucked over Hawaii. That turned into a different savage on the whole world's front. Here's like a baseline question for this, because this whole entire conversation is basically somebody said that what we're doing is not right. Oh yeah, well look at what they're doing, because I'm no worse than that guy. No, No, that's what it

sounds like. You know what it is is people from the culture, right, people from the culture can make sense of the violence. Now, whether they agree with the sense is different, but they can make sense of it. So my point is, how can you make sense of certain violence, but you can't make sense of other violence. That's I'm happy you said it that way. I wonder if that's the point I'm trying to semi devils advocate and speak

on behalf of opinions that aren't present. So there's a a line between I can make sense and rationalize this violence versus I can endorse or attempt to speak out against this violence. You know, like those are kind of separate conversations. Yeah, but I don't. I don't think this is and this is where I'm going, And not not specifically those two brothers, but brothers in general. I'm just using their but exosolate them brothers and make it just them,

not either. I just yeah, you know, but at this point I'm about to me, right, is there's a value in it? That's the problem. There's a value in it. There's a financial value in speaking out against the community.

Now I'm not saying those two guys are because they don't get paid for ship like this, but there is a lot of people that really benefits from acting like they have no idea, from citing a certain way, right, just like in a real war, there's a value in speaking out against it with some people, and there's a value of speaking out for it for some people. You know what I mean? Is it really they're determining factor.

I'm not getting into why the reality is. The one point I'm upset about is when people from the community that are informed can't make sense out of it. That's that's my only point. And I'm saying, when is war sensible? At which level is war sensible? Because of nine eleven? Does that make sense? Then? How don't you understand what happens nine times out of ten and these micro you know,

level conflict? Is there a space and if so, what does it look like where a person who fits that description could say, I understand why you did that, but I disagree with the decision to have done that, Like what what does that look like and its presentation and its application? It's kind of maybe like my question, you know, I mean, I guess, I guess you can be you know, you can be a hippie, like, you know, hippies don't

agree with no wars right right? Theoretic, Yeah, but I don't know if they If hippies are like, oh, I totally get why you did that, but I'm principally opposed, Like they're they're more just like I principate post and I don't understand anything because I'm a freking idiot hippie. Well I don't. I don't quite know. Again, that's like setting a border to why people understand war, Like what's that? That's the point I was asking what is worth going

to war over that? That's the same question if you say, I see what happened, but I don't agree. Is the equivalent of say, and you know there's some reason to go to war, and there's some reason that aren't. And I'm asking you if nine eleven right or World War two? Right? When when the when the Japanese came Obama Hawaii? Was

it Pearl Harbor? Right? When when that happens? Those are the two most Those are the two greatest moments that I remember in history, you know, as far as like study history and anything, where they had the America's they had America's vote of confidence, as far as the approval there you go, they had the approval of the American public to go to war. Those two reasons that are rooted in revenge. So if you don't understand revenge as a main motive, listen Vietnam we could. That probably was

the lowest rated American war is probably worse. Now, I don't know, I haven't looked it up. That's probably some ales, No, but Vietnam is one of the worst. And and Vietnam can make perfect sense, but it's one of the worst. It is because you didn't have the simple thing that human beings thrive on revenge most of the time. It's not about justice, is about revenge, you know, And those two words are really you know, it's a slippery slept between those two words because a lot of people go

to court. They're not searching for justice, whether they know it or not. Even if somebody gets life in prison, they're not searching for justice. They're searching for revenge. This is the closest that they can get to revenge. So I'll take it. So you're asking me, you know, if there's a space that exists where people to me, No, there's no space that can exist where you can understand some war and then other wars unless you say, these

are the basic guidelines for war. So now if you want to say, hey, glasses, this is the basic guidelines. Ten people have to get killed, well, then that becomes a conversation of how many people were talking about per capital? What's the percentage? How serious does it need to be? Are there some wars in the streets I don't agree with? Yes, yes, I look at some streets. The sixties and their trades is not one of them. I totally understand how it happened top to bottom. Do I wish the brothers could

find out another solution? Sure? Do? I understand why? Shi it is that bad? Hell? Yeah, you kill my motherfucking brother is gonna be some ship about it. I may not want America to solve the problem. I may not want a jury of not my peers to solve the problem or try to get justice for me, you know what I mean? I may not want that. So if if, if, if you're killing my brother right, or you infringing on my tory economically, right, are not reasons to literally, you know,

create a war. Then there's never been a reason in human existence to create a war. Everything about war, for the most part, is either you know, revenge or prevented itve Like, even right now, when you say the weapons of mass destruction blah blah blah, Syria, it ain't your motherfucking business about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and let as you think they might use them on you or somebody you care about, or you decide who has weapons of mass destruction or not. It's all the time.

It's preventative to some reason. And I can understand. That's why if you think about the gang bankers would make the best politicians, because it's somewhere that you really understand it's just politics. It's all the same mind state. How the funk do you gonna tell somebody else they can have goods are okay? That is for sure some gang bangership.

And also let me point out there's so many diplomatic conversations and talks in Los Angeles amongst different gangs to try to bring a truce, to try to bring peace that are pretty similar the way international nations do it. You know, we don't have in Bastad. Technically we do have in bass We're gonna send such and such to the to the table to have a meeting at the Youth Justice Coalition because these other guys are gonna come.

And in the last five years there have been so many truces and so many peace treaties, you know, signed in a literal sense, um so it is almost the same as as nation building, you know, on on the level of of nation states, when you have crips and bloods and pyrous and Southsiders coming to the table to iron off their differences to see if there's a possible solution to end a particular conflict. And I got a shout out the Florences and the East Coast is that's huge.

That was a twenty year beef. That beef flashed just as long as the Afghanistan US war, UM, and in they came to the table and ended it and in the last three years, UM, it's still maintaining. So there's also these different yes, Florencias, Mexicans, Yeah, correct, south Siders, And I think those diplomatic talks that we don't never mention that are happening behind the scenes. It's just another

example as how close this is to international conflict. I think, like on the media sense, like if you look at like it happens like there's you know, been issues like in Hollywood where you'll see guy from Stones, guy from forties outside of the nightclub then just for being there or whatever, like there's an existing conflict that plays out

over there. And that's six hundred feet from the news network, you know what I mean, And they're looking out the window, going two guys living a nightclub, one of them the shot the other one doesn't make any sense, you know, and they don't tie it down to its original geographic location in origin. And that's my point when when they reduce it down. So I again, like I said initially at the beginning of this conversation, I get why they think that they aren't totally ignorant. They have no idea.

They need to have a specialist like alex On there to explain such conflicts so they could be like, okay, then they can relate, right, But my issue is more people that the culture that come from the culture per se, right, they come from it, and they get there they're like, well, I don't know why people. I don't know why people. Yes you do, Yes, you fucking do. Yes, you do know what I'm saying. And it's all a part of the same poverty and oppression. This is normal in all

poor communities. This is normal. I mean, it's normal across the globe, but it's normally in a poor communities right here, where conflicts are solved primitively, you know, it's It's not a ton of things to look forward to, you know. It's all a part of the same oppression, you know, a lack of opportunities. You're fighting over the minimal. It ain't like you fighting over the street and you got

a thousand streets where you're making all this money. This is very little area to earn in this community, and you are impeding on this territory that we marked as ours. You know, what's an interesting random thought. Where you go when you are brought in with charges against you, you are afforded the right to counsel, you know, in the criminal sphere, but you aren't in the civil sphere. If you had to write to counsel and then you have to sell your house to sue somebody down there. Yeah,

I like that, like that. It just it just it just it's weird to me. And I'm just tired of seeing the term like senseless violence. It's like, bro, try to make sense of it. Taking effort, taking extra effort as a human being to understand somebody else's life outside of yours, you know what I mean, Like if if that was happening, the human experience would be so much greater,

you know, I mean that that we talked about it before. Right, the the verb of being human is humane, like, right, that's very much just being mindful and and thoughtful for others. So if you just took that extra moment to understand the conflict, you may have a way to help, you know, resolve the conflict. Like me and me and Alex talked

about this before. It's like when you go to court, Like if I go to court, like if I'm from a hundred and seventy street, whether or not I'm participating in the crime, there's somebody that could want to take my life because that's my community. I may have not done nothing to nobody, but because somebody else did something to somebody, no different as Americans, you know you'd be

arrested with Britney grinder. Something simple can be escalated to the first point because right now your homies is helping somebody we're not dealing with. Right, So when you go to court, it's I've said this a thousand times, like it's almost harder for us because you're fighting against two like ideas. Right, you have a law in the streets, and then you have a law that you have to

abide by as a government figure. Right, But imagine if that same system cared about the life of poor people, and when they got people of your peers, they got people that are from the community to understand, because people from the community, like when the kid get killed, you think people from the community. But that's how go Hell no, if you'll keep missing, it will be problems for you. The community fixes its own ship. It, don't just let

it linger around. If you're a rapist from the community and niggas know, no, you get your hat brought to you. This will cut your fucking head off. If you're a child, a pedophile, they will do something to you. If you're breaking in all the houses in the community and and people know they will do something to you, they will bring your ass to court immediately. So if if it was thought up for us, it would be much greater if we cared about what poor people was going through.

I just sat in on the on the Eric Holder trial to do that killed Nipsey Hustle, and and this exact issue was front and center in the trial. On one side, the prosecution saying Eric Holder killed Nipsey Hustle senselessly, senselessly for no reason, while the defense is saying, hold up jury, there was a reason why my client did this, and the whole trial is trying to convince the jury that either it was senseless, find this man guilty for the max, or the other side of saying, there's a reason,

find him guilty for a lesser offense. So, I mean, these things play out in our our trials almost every day, every day. Quick question, what the essential cause of that was? Nipsey accused him of being a snitch, He retaliated, It's it's a layered nutshell, really in a nutshell, in a nutshell,

but it gets a little deeper than I said. Yeah, we're obviously, but that could be a whole another we're in a minute forty ee like like no key, that probably is like an investigative journalist piece, like you would probably need a couple series to understand that that dynamic. I just wanted to know if it was true or not, if it is it out there that he's on paper, see in the trial, it didn't even matter if it was true or not, because it's about Eric Holder's state

of mind at that moment. I was just curious. It never well, that didn't in the trial, never came up. Yeah, that's that's a great point. And and you know, people ask me about that. But the thing about these community incidents and and being my man, they're layered. Really you almost would have to do like investigative journalists like deep, you're like so deep to find out because it's not as simple as one incident, you know, based off of the conversations. It's a lot of went on in this

and so. But but the point Alex is making it it was it didn't matter at all because it was no way possible the jury could even relate to why they could. It's a legit self defense claim in reality, but in jurisprudence, there's no there's no space the claim to try to get a man slaughter a man slaughter basically saying that he was triggered at the heat of the moment by that conversation to kill and that and that was a bad defense, and the trigger being that

that puts his safety at risk. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, the thought of the defense works for you, Pete, because you have some street sense. But the glasses. I think if they had a street jury, they might have understood that and gave him a conversation. Yeah, I think it's very likely first degree. So one of the issues with like Los Angeles annexing so much freaking land in the early part of the twentieth century, because if that happens

in Compton, you're getting a Compton jury. If it happens in l A, you're getting You're getting the Palms, you're getting Woodland Hills, you're getting downtown Korea Town, and you're getting east Side south Central. It doesn't you known Watts, You know, Watts used to be its own city and Los Angeles annexed it and diluted the black population. To

thought though, because Compton has a superior court. Yeah, so that's ain't going It's a different anything important thought for like a black attorney to like move trials to where because you have to get closer to oh yeah, like emotioned to like you have to closer to somebody who could understand the actual life in these poor places completely. Because if you ask somebody for Brent Wood, you know, I wouldn't shoot somebody over still in my car. They

just stole my car. You don't understand that the cases of niggas will keep still in your car. You're not one of the funniest jury selection I've ever heard of. Somebody stole my car called the insurance company. Yeah, well, like you remember, there's a guy who's uh tailback coach for USC. When Reggie Bush was there, he sued the n C double. It took like ten years to get

the court three cards. The way through the trial, one of the jurors asked to be dismissed because she didn't speak enough English to understand the nature of the case. It's important and look, guys like, this is a techno lawsuit.

I wouldn't broke to go for this. Lawsuits that serious though, But that but that's a point, that's a real serious point and a lot of times and that's what I So the point, I guess where I'm coming to is that's why I always go out of my way to speak on gang culture right with Charlotte maagne Van and try to get them to understand. So you can't view us as Native American savages. It's not just savagery. There is very much sensible things happening. But they're past these points.

At times I would agree that they are primitive. But you also talking about a bunch of people who've been oppressed. You talk about a bunch of people that the opportunities are limited. It it's not by it's by design that they feel this way about their life. It's not just randomly that black people don't feel like this way. They live in brent Wood. That's the question for the both

of you guys to answer. What would be like a presentable way to package for a person like that, you know, who's like to degree from the community, who's successful it has a platform two effectively kind of advocate maybe against that if if they happen to believe that it's not the best route with while also not you know, discrediting the reality the situation of you know, maybe ten thousand

people in your city, Like, how would that sound? I would say, listen to this conversation and go back and replay this conversation because the more more dialogue and conversation we have about it, I think people will open up their minds a little bit more to understand. You know, gang members um and gangs are like many nations, They're like many governments. They're like small little entities. In fact that the city of l A when they decide to

do injunctions, they call the gangs an unincorporated association. And in these groups and entities. They act in similar ways that nation states do, and and they decide to use violence, um when they see fit. I would also say that violence, even though gangs do commit violence, it's still pretty rare. It's it's not that gangs do every day. It's not you know, dudes don't say we're gonna go kill every day. You know. I've heard people talk about gangs in the

most salacious ways, like they go kill every day. We have about five gangs in l A, about forty gang members within those four or five gangs, and we might have about a hundred and fifty gang murders a year. Um. Yeah, some some people say that's a lot. But when you do the numbers are murder rate is pretty it's at below average for the whole nation. Um. So that that

kind of should open up the eyes. We got the most gangs, we got the most bloods and most cripts, but our murder rate is an acceptable quote unquote an acceptable number for a large urban city. You have the most order and the most structure. There's no power vacuums. Yeah, there is a lot of structure here. You go to other cities, there's a lot Like Chicago right now is um, I would, you know, I don't want to speak for Chicago,

but it definitely does not mimic the Los Angeles structure. Detroit, Newark, Washington, d C. Los Angeles has a unique structure, and I think that it's it's something that should be talked about more in the sense of an entity and organization or

small nation state. That's a great point. Um. My answer would be people like Alex, like the news or the media caring about it, and having people like Alex to come in and actually explain more about what's going on, like translation, I mean translating what's going on, so the average American public can you know, there's a lot of resources that can actually help. And I think that I don't think it's on purpose. Like, don't get me wrong.

I think at one time in this country the goal was too to be an asshole to the black community and keep people down. But I don't think that's the mass idea now, which is almost unbelievable that I'm saying that that I don't think that's the mass idea now. I think at one time that was the mass idea, but I don't think that's the mass idea now. I think today more people are ignorant. That's why I'm really harsh on brothers that come from the community and what

they say about the community to other people. I'm really I'm listening in really deeply, Like if you start like if a lot of the conversations, like I'm hearing about middle class and wealthy black people speaking on you know, therapy, Like, yes, it's cool to have therapy when you out of the smoke, but it's different to try to have therapy while you gotta exist here tomorrow. These same things, these traumas, are also the things that keep us alive in this environment,

you know. I mean, they're they're the things that that we use to to to They're the tools we use in the worst moments to survive, you know. And then once you once you are not in those environments, it's fine to share the tools, but like I always tell Charlotte Magne, it is not going to You're not gonna raise a generation of people, you know, that don't have these tools, and then they're going to exist in these environments.

What I'm saying, like it won't work together. Like you, like a deer, like a gazelle has to know it's a gazelle when it's in the jungle. Now, when it's in the gazelle park or a gazelle zoo with a bunch of gazellees, it doesn't have to be as leary as it is in the wild wines and bears and ship,

it's different, feel me. So it's easy to talk ship about a traumatized gaze l right, and and then this gazelle will get therapy when it's in the in the gazelle zoo where everything is fine, right, But it's another thing to try to give this gazelle, you know, therapy about that. Nobody you know, blah blah blah. Feel me in lines is around this motherfucker because you will get

eight and that. And that's my point. People like Alex you know, who have dedicated their lives, you know what I'm saying to understanding this thing that we call, you know, nation building on the micro level, you know what I mean, and has the ability and the the information and education to translate it to on a macro level. That's the most important part. Good looking out for tuning into the No Sellers podcast. Please do us a favorite, subscribe, rate, comment,

and share. This episode was recorded right here on the West coast of the USA and produced by my homeboy A King for the Black Effect Podcast network and not Heart Radio. Yeah.