Conversation About Scotty Pippen

What's up and welcome back to another episode of No Sealer's Podcast with your hosts now fuck that with your loaw glasses Malone. So let me start this podcast going on record. First, first thing being said is I agree Michael Jordan would have never been a winner without Scottie Pippen.

Never, I'm gonna just start there.

I think Scottie Pippen is probably one of the most disrespected, insulted, degraded greats to ever play basketball. Now the way I look at basketball, because it's simple, right, I don't really care about the All Star Game. Me and I didn't been on houton Bruce with y'all a million times talking about basketball. I've talked to y'all over and over again. I tell you I don't care about the All Star Game.

So I wanted to do.

A podcast to where we could work through our issues with the disrespect for fucking Scottie Pippen.

I don't know what happened, and when did this happen?

You know what the fuck happened. He happens, get out of here with all of that. I don't nobody feel sorry for that motherfucker. He been bitter since motherfucking the middle of the nineties when he signed that ten year, thirty three million dollar deal and then he became a shot up and became a superstar and wanted to renegotiate. And Jerry Rhynsdorf, who was the Chicago Bulls, the Cargo White Sox owner, has been notorious for not for making

How many championships I know I have without Scotty.

How many does he have without the Chicago Bulls organization.

You're not a part of the organization. Just listening. When I.

Asked you, you asked me a question. Answer my question. He would have zero, We would have zero, and he would have zero.

So again, right, so again, it's not now. Now, let's let's unpack all of that stuff.

It's hard to say that the Chicago Bulls would have zero because you don't know what you're getting in instead of him. Okay, you're speculating the presence of an athlete, I guess the sheer absence of a player on the team, not against an alternative of athlete on the team.

Well, the point I talked your shit, Pete talked.

The point I'm making Pete is you didn't have any before or after.

Sure, let's suppose that that in the same draft they grabbed Reggie Miller, or in nineteen ninety one they traded Scottie Pippen for somebody when he was an All Star and had a lot of value.

You don't win with Regimiller, You do not regul you don't play nowhere near the type of defense you need to play to win the championship with Regimenter and Regi Miller is a bad motherfucker.

The same position.

Basically shout out to my nigga Regimenter because he's in California. But you don't win shit with Regimenter. You get your ass with no senters. Gl Man Pete in the spot. We're doing what we do. My brothers from Hoops and Bruce. Whenever I have a sports take, it don't matter if it's basketball, it don't matter whatever's on my mind, whatever part of heaven I want to explore. When I talk about sports, I'm gonna go to my brothers because I think they're rational people.

At least paths. Tom has been manic, but respect.

We're gonna work respectfully, respect respectfully.

We don't work through it because that's what players do. Now.

There's nothing Michael Jordan could say to his son because about sucking.

This nigga wife. It's kind of Jordan's son is a grown ass mother.

You mother you yeah, yo, Like, like listen.

Grown man gonna tell his grown ass son.

He ain't got to listen. But like, I honestly think Mike said, sick, go get him, get him, boy, go get him. He wanted to talk.

Don't want to believe that.

This motherfucker crazy since he want to talk ship go fuck his wife.

I don't. I hope that's not true.

Michael all of that guy.

But like everything everything Scotty has said about Michael Jordan in the past, I don't know, like year or two like since like obviously with the last I feel him like the last is in some kind of way did make Scotty look away because of the fact I've said many times the Last Dance was a Michael Jordan propaganda piece largely.

But everything in the.

Past, like mine come from Hitler literally.

But everything in the past year is because his question was a not in the first fifteen minutes of that documentary series, did Michael Jordan I say I would not have won anything without Scotty Pippin. I mean no, I asked you a question, yes or no, So shut the fuck up, saying when Mike said beginning of the documentary without this motherfucker, I would it is it's like three others here Man, you and Scotty episodes on Delusional, just like.

It's like three episodes straight in which nobody got mentioned on the Chicago.

He Is Mikey Jordan. Bro, But just like watching a documentary about the Patriots and being mad because Teddy Bruski was the fucking highlighted.

He's on Tom Brady.

If we know, if we make a documentary about the New England Patriots, Teddy Bruske, who played the supreme role on the defense and those early championships, should be highlighted. If you name the documentary the Last Dance, which was about all of them. It was all of them Last Dance, not just Michael Jordans. We shouldn't go three episodes without any human being being mentioned besides Michael Jordan's.

See you get on these tangents where you start speaking in your opinion versus what the actual facts were when the document no, stop stop stop. When the documentary dropped. We talked about this documentary at nauseum because you took a position of this is a Michael Jordan propaganda piece, and I'm like, bro, it's not a Michael Jordan propaganda Who is the most famous athlete to ever watch? Who is the most famous athlete off the face of propaganda?

Starting starting, you start going over them.

Michael Jordan's is the most famous athlete in the history of the world. Probably, no, probably him, Messi and Ronaldo.

Probably it's it's two names. It's it's it's Michael Jordan's Muhammad Ali.

Yeah, I think I'm talking about soccer.

Guys, aren't even.

I think Messi is up there. I think I think Messi is up there. I don't think Messi is up there. Maybe not Ronaldo, but but but Messi is definitely one of the most popular athletes in the history of the world.

So let's stark.

He's one of the most decorated and celebrated athletes in the history of the world. So I don't I don't understand this conundrum of like, oh, we're celebrating Michael Jordan, what are we talking about?

It's not talking about Listen, nobody is. Michael Jordan is the greatest shooting guard to ever play basketball, the most accomplished and greatest shooting guard to.

Ever play basketball.

But it is a cruel just to not mentioned that he paid. He played next to the greatest small ford at that time.

That matters, It does matter.

That Michael Jordan never had a winning season before Scottie Pippen came to the team. It's important to say Michael Jordan probably never had a winning season without Scotty Pippen.

You know what, y'all y'all are enablers. Y'all enable him to do this ship. That's why he does.

It's not it's not enabled, it's not wrong.

Do I think he has some issues he needs to work out with Michael Jordan?

I do. But do I think what he's saying is totally crazy? I don't.

I don't what's he saying exactly?

Hold up, I'm sure if Tom got a list time put to get compiler lists of things.

That's just crazy that he's saying.

I thought he said something like this morning or whatever. It's just no, he's.

Been no, he had a he had an interview with someone a week or so ago or ten days ago, and basically he was saying, Michael Jordan is the great isn't the greatest player? Michael Jordan wouldn't have won anything had I not been there. Everybody Michael Michael, Michael Michael. It's funny how I hear him speaking more about Michael Jordan. And his greatness or lack thereof, than I hear him speaking about his own greatness when he's because he's because he's not Michael Jordan. That's true.

That's like saying no, no, don't stop. Kobe and Shack are on a similar level in terms of Kobe Kobe.

I disagree with that.

I disagree with that.

I disagree with that. I disagree with that one guy was clearly the best player while they were on the same team, and then when they left, one one two championships, which is Kobe and the other than one one. That's the only reason why you could pay Kobe above Shack player player because he because respectfully, because he died Kobe was still alive, we would not be having these Kobe second but we would not. And I love Kobe no

Would Mike have won without Scotty? We would never know.

We would never know. We would never know, not on the same playing field, because Michael Jordan was already an established superstar before Scotty Pippen even arrived.

What does that mean?

What are you talking about?

Listen, Kobe Bryant made All NBA First Team for a decade, Shaq never made one.

That that has made nothing to do with anything. They ain't got nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

How if they're on the same playing field, how many finals vps Kobe got? I don't know one or two?

Two exactly?

You know how many?

You know how many of the big fellas.

Dollar has.

And he didn't deserve it. And honestly, if you want to say, oh, well, the All NBA means nothing, I'm a reporter.

One second.

I'm a reporter. If I get into the Writers Guild and they give me a vote, I can vote on All NBA.

That's why they never would because they know your ass is crazy, that this man crazy a lot.

You have Mark Jackson, who's a media member, not voting ton Kolea Yokich as a top five m VP candidate this year. But you're gonna tell me that all of these guys all of a sudden like their opinion for first NBA All All Team doesn't matter, but their opinion for Finals MVP matters, but the All Star Game doesn't matter, but the defensive plague when the writers vote on all of it.

We're not saying one thing or another thing doesn't matter. We're saying that we're not.

We're talking about something that you accomplished over eighty two seasons. We're sharing with you that the NBA Finals MVP Igwa Dollar won it.

What does that mean? I'm telling you that that means you So have a question for you? Then would the words that we won that championship without Andre So you know what, Steph Curry wouldn't want Ship without igodyon.

That's not what we're saying.

Iggy won there. He wouldn't have won Ship.

Steph Curry over, I'm not this, but you're you're exaggerating because we're not saying Michael Jordan's greatness, right. What we're talking about is how great Scottie Pippen is and the fact that people constantly don't recognize how great he is.

That's it.

But you're conflating your opinion and your argument with what you believe and not what the man himself has actually said this.

Is not these words come out.

I'm not putting these words in Scotty Pippens.

He's saying that's crazy.

What do you mean?

Said, Michael Jordan wouldn't won a championship without me? And you said, Michael Jordan's said you want to hold up listen, I did hold up.

So then therefore he's not saying something crazy because Michael Jordan agrees with him.

So then how is Scotty not getting no credit? Then? And he's being maligned and and everyone that you're.

Right now, you you are the problem. Michael Jordan's probably not the problem. You are the problem.

I started the conversation off by saying that Michael Jordan acknowledged Scotty Pippen's greatness and said he would not be as great without Scotty Pippen. What you quoted?

You quoted Michael Jordan.

Now we're asking Tom, we're not asking Tom to give us Michael Jordan, and I said, you asked me. You said how many championships they have without Scotty? Said zero? And then you said answer the question. I said zero? And then I said, how many these chips Scotty Pippen have without Michael Jordan. What do you think about Scottie Pippen?

Jonas, how about that?

I think Scotty Pippen is the third, is the second or third greatest power for whatever. He's arguably the greatest perimeter defender to ever play the game. But I don't believe honestly that he's a better defender than Mike. I just think that if you, Michael Jordan, I got to go out and drop thirty five and still be the best defender on the other end, somebody else better be playing some defense too. Mike was surrounded by dogs. Scotty

I'm asking you Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Bill Russell Show Top five.

Right, then you have Steph Curry.

Right.

Then you got Kobe Bryant. Right, then you have Larry Bird. Then you have.

What was that, Dennis Robin. That's a whole, that's not that's notine. No, no, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. I'm not You're wrong, but I feel you.

Okay, you.

You got Robin over.

Kareem's going, he's going in teams with five he goes.

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, as long as you're not naming him mill order, because I was about because they don't.

Play one on one. If they played one on one, then we could have a conversation. Basketball.

This ain't boxing, This is you. You got four more names. I'm waiting five more names, five more names, right, so then you have you got my boy, the hardwood Hoodeni Bob Coosey.

Gotta put cools right there. I know y'all don't white people can't play sports. Let y'all tell it.

If he was playing basketball before doctor Martin Luther King was assassinated. I don't give a fuck.

That's your problem, that's your mistake. And they had don before doctor Martin Luther King. That's why that's a whole another track. Look, right then you have I'm a slay. I'm gonna say d Wade right now, but I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking about someone else. I'm just not gonna do that. I'm gonna go Wade. Then I'm gonna go Scottie Pippen. Then I'm gonna go Yannis. Then I'm gonna go Yannis, and then I'm having an issue. I'm gonna stick with dream for right now.

Fair what. I love Dwayne Wade. He is my favorite player of all time. But you have lost your mind.

I don't know why. I mean, there are there more accomplished shooting guard than Dwayne Wade.

We didn't say it, who was the most accomplished? I asked you who was your top fifteen? I didn't say who was the most accomplished.

I mean, shit, if you don't accomplish the most, then how could I make you the top?

So you got d Wade over Shack. Yes, you're insane, You're literally insane. I say, this is my part insane and I love you, but you're gonna tell the same.

But I'm gonna tell you the problem, right, I'm gonna tell you the problem when it comes to centers between Shaq haw keem Olajawan and Will Chamberlain. I go through these moments, bro, Sometimes I have Shaq right there at fifteen. Sometimes I have Will there at fifteen. But the problem is when I look at what Dream represented as a basketball player. He was such an incredible defender and such

That to open up the podcast where.

You have never laughed at your opinions before, but this is the first laughing. Oh hello, six years, five years. Then you tell me the most laughable You ask them here.

You said who finals MVP? Right, and when it was Shack and Do Wade and they went to the finals, who won the finals?

MVP?

Dwayne has one finals MVP glasses. I know he has no regular season MVP glasses. He's going by positions. D Wade is not even a greater player than Jokic is to.

Me, Yeah, I don't know about that. That's silly. That's silly. I mean, he's too accomplished for us to even debate.

That Jokic is actually more accomplished than d Wade at this point.

Yes he is. He's my favorite player of all time.

I have never seen that man one MVP trophy during the regular season, let alone too.

I'm not upset that you're saying that, but the Most Valuable Player is an offensive award, and I'm not mad that Joker is in that conversation. It's always been an offensive award. It's been an offensive award probably since.

Eighty so A team won v because he was so dynamic offensively.

He won Defensive Player of the Year the same year as well.

He was also really good offensively too.

He was like, fantastic off I know you, I know you.

You don't hear words coming out of your own mouth. I know you, just know you don't hear the words coming out of your own mouth.

Yes, I'm telling you.

That's why they gave him Defensive Player of the Year. They gave him the MVP because he was offensively dynamic. The fact that you're questioning that is crazy to me.

No, the fact that you're saying that, it's crazy to me. He was the MVP because he was the best offensive and defensive player in the year in the league that year.

He was the He was the also the defensive player of the year because he was the best.

No, that's that's cap G. Even when Yahnis won MVPs. Half of his argument for winning MVPs because when he won his first MVP average I think twenty six, which he was like third or fourth in the league, and.

Scool averaged like fourteen rebounds and like seven assists.

Are you serious, G, y'all probably shot like fifty five the field.

Or something. And he was still one of the best defensive and offensive players in the.

League, which is of the year as well and one of the years.

What do you mean?

That's the point? Steve Nash's horrible defensively. He's won two m vps.

There's a ton since the name all the offensive guys that won MVPs that didn't play no defense. Okay, one, no defense, Go ahead, keep going.

You're a liar.

I don't believe that. You know you didn't watch the Bulls. I can tell you didn't watch the Russell. You didn't watch the Bulls, I can tell you James harden Man, Okay, I don't think.

I don't think is a terrible defensive player, though I never thought ward.

It's been an offensive ward since the defensive Player of the Year award came across. Oh my god, and every now and then they'll make it a color for award, like when Derrick Rose defen Scotty one zero.

Oh, okay, but that's not He's also been ten times All Defensive First Team and zero times the best defender in the league.

Yes, what does that mean?

Because we're having conversations about greatness, right and again, Scotty top thirty, Mike top three on.

Anybody's Lisotty top fifteen. No, he's not Scotty by far as the third best small for.

No, Scotty's not even better than KG. And you ain't even put KG in your list. KG is not what do you mean? Of course he is?

No, he's not.

He's more complistentan KG.

No, he No, he is not a better player than Kevin Garnet.

He's more competent than KG.

Y're also arguing different things. He's not more competent Kevin Garnet. Kevin Garnet won an MVP and Defensive Player of the Year award. I'm not knocking at but he also only won one championship. You gotta win, dog, you are This is see. This is why this motherfucker Scotty do this shit, because y'all play mental gymnastics. To make it fit. Y'all argument you have to have.

You have to take into account he won six champions.

And I have to take into account that he never won to MVP or Defensive Player number Yeah, So why yeah, yea yea yeah yah. Why Hondo ain't up there? Why you ain't getting Kevin McHale that irony? You ain't got Robert Parrish up there? Why sitting in your top twenty irony with Dwayne Wade out And was just thinking right now when I was saying it past you, was looking like, I was like, that really should be Hondo, But I'm gonna give it to Dwayne Wade.

I'm not mad at JA.

I swear to God, you making me never want to do another podcast talking about basketball, which all again ever in life, y'all are sitting up here and you're spewing fucking Have you looked at numbers?

The nigga he was coming off the bitch for ten years.

In his career.

Then he want a championship, Want a championship without being Russell, without Bob.

Serious right now, Hondo top twenty all.

Time ship coming off the bench because basketball was his second sport. He was an All American football player.

And talk to him, talk to him, Peter about them white folk and you want to championship in the seventies without Bob Coosey.

A couple out Bill, didn't he take down too?

That's one. He did that too. He let that team to see that.

That's the point. And this is the point too. Like the thing about talking to y'all young folks is you don't don't do that. Don't do that, don't know, don't do that. Don't little bro me, don't little child me. Don't little broke me because you brought me on the show to talk and have this discourse.

Don't love you have no no you know.

Rocket with that. Don't bro me. Do not little broke me right now when you brought me on that his discussion. Do not little broke me right now? Does you were born right now. No, I never said you don't think basketball the King got assassinated and that was before you was born.

But don't load from me right now. Don't load. I'm not rocking with that.

Otherwise, why you bring me on here that? Because if you just go to young to talk about it, I did say that.

I did say that.

What I'm saying is, y'all tend to think basketball has an expiration date.

It don't matter before it is. It don't matter before. It does matter because you have to go dominate the guys that's out there with you. So even if we talk about before Martin Luther King got assassinated, right how many teams in the league.

Is it fair to say that there is a that the game is a lot different and it's it's ironic, But I would say from about the last year of the Jordan era beyond because there the gap I feel nowadays between March basketball and May basketball is one hundred miles wide, and I don't feel like it was that way twenty five thirty year. I agree, and that changes the assessment of all these awards and all this other crafts. Because go ahead, Pete, I'm no saying for that reason, I mean awards.

If we're doing that like I'm saying, and Pete, I'm sorry forgive me if I'm cutting you.

To imagine saying before overseas players started playing basketball, because right now, right, let's say, it'll probably be We've talked about this, and I've been saying this for like the last four years, five years, It'll probably be ten years before another American born player wins an MVP, right.

I think I think me and Path.

Agreed probably a couple of years ago, three years ago, we was like, yo, it's probably gonna be at least a decade before an American born player wins the MVP.

Right, we both agree with that. And right now we're five years.

In, so we looking really good and it don't look close. The two guys that should have won that are both overseas players, right. So imagine us like right, as more overseas players coming to the NBA and they start to have significant roles and they're great players. Imagine us discounting the time when American basketball led the scene and said, well, that was before all the overseas players really came into the league because it was only so many overseas players.

When you do that because it's pre the ABA merging with the NBA. You discredit the greatest players in the NBA history because that's all we're talking about.

It's not fair when you do it, and you shouldn't do it, because.

I'm telling you when you you know it's it's like when all the legends would tell me and rap, they be like, gee, wat's what you're saying. Because you're gonna have to eventually be a legend. You're gonna get older. You gotta be careful.

So remember your point that you make if you start preaching all pre that's pre ABA. Look what's going on right now with these overseas players. They're coming in by the flocks. They're coming in better than americanayers. Been in the league for thirty years now, that's black players in the league. Nias been playing in the NBA for fifty years. Stop it longer than that system forties in the NBA the whole time. Who black players have been there? Okay, then what we're talking about.

But you but you tend to discredit it because it was before the ABA merger.

I discredited because it was twelve fucking teams in the league. How many changes in the play and there was no free agency. There was many changes in the playoffs. One would argue with that, hold on, wait, wait real quick.

One would argue with you that the talent pool was and I'm gonna tell you to get the out of the team.

So it wasn't that spread out. What would argue with you and one of them fucking teams in the fifties, sixties and dominating that because they have.

Man like they didn't have weights.

Then it's not the same thing we call the evolution for a reason, weren't even fair. Don't say it. Then if it's not fair, it's not not being legit to No, y'all not being legit because y'all want to because you love to argue on the side of anarchy, and Patty just don't give a fuck.

I don't have idianarchy. I'm just a very good keeper of history. I care about history, and I care about domination no matter when it happened.

So why you don't care about your examination?

I do?

I think I don't care about I told you listen, I just put Janni's in the top fifteen already.

So Helen is not there, but you have Jis has not accomplished the thing that.

How about this, we have this conversation again in a week I met you, that's two weeks, and then your list again. When he got a championship of two MVPs.

Now we got to talk about it. But he probably still wouldn't be top fifteen. He'd probably still be like.

Your nuts, your nuts.

Well, I mean at that point, how Chamberlain, who you have d Wade in your top fifteen?

But you're missing the point, right, You're missing the point. How do I put him over Will Chamberlain who has four MVPs and two championships?

I don't know. You told me I don't. I won't you hold on, you don't hold him? You know how you put whoever who will over Yokic?

Know? How do I put Joker over Whiled? I'm fine with that. I'm fine with it.

I'm no, no, no, i'ma tell you why I'm flying with that argument. Because Wilt was Will set the precedent for all of the big men to follow him, even the ship Yoki is doing right now, Wilt was doing Doctor Martin Luther King got shot. After he got shot, he threwing the god damn merger he was and even when he was olderan wasted. He was still giving you twenty and ten and he had all this and he went to the finals with first championship.

His first championship came from assists. And you know why he didn't win them championships too.

I know why? Yeah, because you're playing a team with five Hall of famers on it.

They was Hall of Fame because they whooped on your ass.

No, they was Hall of Famous because they was Hall of Famers. They wouldn't Hall of Famer before your shit.

It's like it's like when people say Lebron James played against five people that won Hall of Fame. No, you made them hall of famers. They're whooping on your ass. That's why they're in Hall of Fame. They wouldn't be in Hall of Fame. That's they're whooping on yours.

If Will Champlanin would have stopped that, niggas, they wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. Michael Jordan denied a lot of people think about if niggas just whipped.

On Michael Jordan every year, they would be like Hall of Famer. So all I'm saying to you is we have to be fair. We can't discount the game pre you know, whatever, Martin Luther King, ABA merger or anything. You can't because the game is gonna constantly evolve. So you have to dominate the pool that's there.

And it's like it's like one last caveat, one last caveat.

Just to with your point, Will had already won a championship before Will, I'm sorry, Bill Russell had already won a championship before Will even entered the league. No, that's I'm looking at it right now. You're not gonna tell me that it didn't.

Sixty what huh? Sixty one?

I think Will Russell won a championship fifty No, he wanted to let me fucking say it. He won a championship in nineteen fifty seven. Will didn't make it to the NBA until nineteen fifty nine. It so again, Bill Russell came up and was already playing with Hall of famers and great NBA players before We'll even entered into the league. To you, you keep missing my point on purpose.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. How can you say that?

Then? If you saying that, you you literally said Bill Russell was great because he was whooping Wilt Chamberlain asked so what so he won whooping ass before Will got in the league, when.

He was a champion already he was out jumping people. No, that's not what I asked. I mean Bill Russell was a special athelete?

He was Was he not a champion before Will Chamberlain came in the league?

Listen, when it came to when it came to like like uh pro like, like what was it called revolutionary that Bill Russell was that?

Nigga, that's a whole nother story.

My nigga, I ain't asked you that. I asked you that was Bill Russell not already a champion before Wilt Chamberlain entered? Was So, how can you say that Bill Russell is a is so great because of Will? No, he's not. He was already great, great, team was already great.

Grits engineering dilemma. It's not that Bill Russell Russell was great because of Will, just that Wilt was dimmed because of Russell. If Russell didn't exist, then Wilt would probably have ten championship game. A conversation, and.

You went on some funny on that before We'll even got into the league. On that Celtics team, Bob Coosey, Tom Henderson, Bill Russell, Bill Sharmon all Hall.

Of Fame, Casey Jones on that team for period of times.

He's a little bit later on the on the on the team that won the championship.

From Usfuh, there was like two or three guys from the college team that went back to back in c as they went to the Celtics because Red was the only guy really going hardcore after black players.

Roberts made doll of fame. Bird made a lot of people Hall of Fame.

Oh, the point I was going to make is as far as the expansion of the league and the expansion of talent whatever, it's sort of like a parallel to like the way mining for old doesn't change because it's technology and cost of getting it improves, it remains fixed, you know what I mean, Like, like the supply expansion is the same as the cost of digging deeper and deeper into technology, digs better and better, all that kind of shit.

So, like.

The leagues expanded probably sort of on pace with the expansion of access to talent and the expansion of development of talent.

FAY people also use it arguments to discredit And.

This is one of those things that I do feel Scottie Pippen on.

And it's not what it is is it's like my issues with like like like people think I don't like Lebron James, right, but it's not Lebron James.

It's his fans. Like his fans are like delusional.

And this is kind of Michael Jordan where people didn't really watch basketball at that time, so they didn't know. And I'm looking at a thing in my Instagram that my homie six sent me six picks shout out to my boy six. It's said Jordan ends the Penny and Shack era. You see how they did that.

They did say the bulls. They just said Michael, They just said not to mention what Shack and Penny Jordan and pippin Shack and Penny destroyed.

Jordan and Pippen right them?

What era?

What era did they have?

But you're missing I'm asking you what era did they have? It's not did they have an era? Your focused focus because now we're going into this magic. I don't want to talk about that.

Listen.

The fact that they made him the guy that stopped Jordan and Penny, like Jordan and Penny didn't just bounce this motherfucker, and they had to go get another guy that's in my top ten to make sure they got past him. The greatest defensive presidence to play basketball and the minor era, one of the greatest possession guys ever.

So one of the So Michael Jordan retired for two years.

And shack, I'm tired of y'all with that lie.

That's not why they lost. He actually retired for a year and a half.

But okay, he retired for one year.

No, he retired for a year and a half. He missed. He came back and played I think.

Thirty for one year, tired closer to I disagree with.

That either way. That's not why they lost that year.

They lost.

Shooting sixty, that's why they lost the series. And who and what team the horse played for it before he went to Orlando, his horse grant in the Hall of Fame. No, that's not what I asked you. That's why they had to go get somebody else. Stop to get somebody else.

Okay, okay, somebody else.

It wasn't just anybody else. It wasn't just anybody else. It happened to be the nigga that you was just talking about. The two time Defensive Player of the Year two champion Savage guard off five positions. Mayniact that could literally remount the ball better than anybody in the.

Last fifty years.

So Robin made Shack leave Orlando.

No, no, no, the Bulls made Shack Ornando.

Okay, the Bulls, Okay, the Bulls. I have never seen a player like Michael Jordan be disrespected consistently because of the fact that he was great and popular. You know, it's some funny. We never have these conversations in terms of the lexicons of the greats when it comes to Tom.

Brady, because football, don't nobody do that.

I don't. I disagree right now. They don't. They don't, not in the same manner. Not in the same manner.

Everybody tells me Tom Brady ain't. I don't even like football, and everybody tell me, man, tom Brady is cool. They just doing a bit too much. But he's a great quarterback and they're lying. I believe that.

I've watched in my entire life. He was fucking phenomenal.

He was great. I believe him.

I believe had a great coach. And so without Thomas Wayne Brady, I believe that's his middle name the first. It's not happening.

Also, I think people view footballs as a as a much more of a collective than people have.

You view basketball, not of a quarterback position, not of the quarterback position. I don't know, because I think I've heard people say there are better quarterbacks, they're better passers.

And that's the issue with with a lot of fans fans I think.

I think, I think Tom Brady has the same things that Tim Duncan has, where a lot of people talk about certain things as far as it being system based, combined things, and they keep creating the same setup for it. But again that Tom Brady without that system, But again you just recreate the same system. Their offense was horrible that year, and I knew that for sure too, And.

They still want a championship because.

They have fantastic defense and Tom Brady doesn't play. That's not the takeaway.

Look, I don't want to do that. I'm just saying.

I'm just saying, we don't really have these discussions about white great athletes and and and spend all this time trying to diminish their greatness to put it on other ones. I don't see what's made Michael Jordan's the greatest shooting guard of everasball, What do you want you talking about a position? To make a position the lexicon of the sport, because it could be very easily I could say, well, Tom Brady was only the greatest quarterback to played football. Ok.

I thought that's what he knows.

Wait, stop, they do say that, But you don't hear no fucking body at all say well, Michael was just a great shooting guard. Get the fuck out of here. Man Lasson says.

That the only guy.

That also actually one of those guys who really break things down to the simplest point.

I don't just say things because they sound sensational. I don't know Michael Jordan's basketball player.

They ever played the game. That's stupid.

You don't.

You wouldn't have to play one on one.

I would never know. I don't know who the fuck would Michael Jordan beat fucking one on one because he don't fucking play one. He's not a boxer. It's not one guy versus one guy. So why the fuck would you declare one player the best? Is literally because that's what we do.

Because you're horrible.

No, that's what we have to make you, that's what we do. No, no, no, you know what's horrible saying have the check is top fifteen all time. That want to even even even wanting to say that is horrible. It's not a bad argument. Delusion, it's not a bad argument. You all are delusional.

Listen to me. You know what's crazy time, right is there are guys who I rate Dwayne Wade higher than that one m v P S and James.

Is a shooting guard. I rate him higher because I think he's accomplished more.

Why do you not rate like Clay Thompson higher?

We haven't even got that far down the line. I have to have that conversation.

Why isn't he above? Why are we Why is he further down the line than Wade? He should be higher than Wade.

No, does he have any even the teams? For sure, d Wade got like four.

D Wade is a bad motherfucker.

D Wade might be the craziest mother fucking real life, but as a hooper, that motherfucker, bad motherfucker mother fucker. Three time NBA Champion Finals MVP, thirteen time NBA All Star, All Star Game MVP. He has made eight All NBA teams, He's made three All defensive teams.

He's a scoring champion.

He is really one of the most defining people for a position that you can see until you start talking about Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant. There's probably not a shooting guard more accomplished like Alan Iverson if we put him in shooting.

Guards, James Harden is more accomplished. If you're telling me champion, winning championships is a team game, yes, but you but you play don't So it does matter, right, it does matter, But all the other boxes need to be feeled. Is it Uchi Waally or is it one mic?

Which one isn't win AP on a terrible team?

Either, that's a lie. Russell Westbrook did.

No, that wasn't terrible, and that wasn't a terrible team.

You are not a terrible team, not a terrible team, but a terrible team. It wasn't a great team. It's not a rewriting.

It's not as bad as the teams that Michael Jordan was balling on.

Who was the second best player on that OKC team with I mean Victor was like seventeen boys.

And he won All defensive. He was bad more at that time, wasn't terrible. They wasn't going championship.

But he took off the very next year when he got to the Indiana He wasn't terrible.

It wasn't terrible.

It wasn't a great team, but it wasn't terrible.

Didn't they just get didn't they get alsted in like the first round?

Yes?

Yeah, yeah, they got swept.

So you got the MVP and you get in the first round. That's not a ringing endorsement.

His team was fucking trash.

It was.

It's no, no, no, let's be honest. K D.

Leaves.

You have a team that is built for Kevin Durant. Now you are the focal point of the team, so they have to replace Kevin fucking Durrant. I think all the leftover pieces from a team built for Kevin Durant without Russell Westbrook, that team probably win fifteen games.

That year's distribution, it's the distribution MVP era is what that is. It's not the fact that it was a team great, was it not great? It's the fact that Russell west would played through four months of basketball when no one gives a flying fuck. That's the point.

No, No, the point is we only cared about Okac and we talked about them because of Russell Westbrook.

That's absolutely because he's going hardcore, burned himself out in the fucking.

January, averaged a triple double and that had season.

And nine guys around him just playing. Didn't give a fuck because it's Tuesday in Milwaukee on January eighth, But that gives a fuck.

It's still hard for him to average a triple double four season.

Absolutely, it is.

Nobody still s hasn't averaged a triple double like Joker was closed, but he didn't quite do it for sure.

It's it's like it's it's regular season NBA basketball. NBFA aren't to like this is breaching preseason NFL football and it's standard.

She's just getting out of fucking control.

No, I'm not, so you're telling me.

So, you're telling me a team with Victor oladipot Inez Canner, Steven Adams, Todd Gibson, Josh Houston, Andre Rovers and Doug McDermott.

Back then cleaning on defense too.

Huh.

Roster was cleaning on defense too. He had the same injury. I had to. I like him as a defensive player, But.

Go ahead, he having six points a game that year, could barely make a shot with defense, his assof shooting forty six and twenty five percent from three. That team was not a good team.

Been his ass off he could.

It wasn't a great team like it was a great We've seen what happen right now not having Steven Adams.

What happened to Memphis.

Yeah, they star player was pulling glocks out on the internet, so he got suspended for eight games.

But you see what happened to Steven Adams.

I mean you probably they probably would have been way better had their star player another Bullard locks out on the internet and got suspended in the middle of the season when Steven Adams got hurt.

They would have won with Steven Adams.

They still could have possibly won without John morettough. But like when you don't have any of your bigs, is not gonna happen.

Yeah, because it's just all stout.

But the point I'm saying is back to Scottie Pippoy, tell me the thing he's saying that's incorrect.

Not again, there are again, there are a lot of hurt in Scotty's comments for reasons that have nothing to do with basketball, I think. But when he does say things like Michael wouldn't have won without me, he's not really wrong.

And all I would like to ask Scotty is what would you be without Michael Jeffrey Jordan. It's a team game other than an other than another fucking country, motherfucking basketball player that came to like I like, this is part of my problem with Scotty.

Did he like?

It's almost like a situation, what's a what's the famous rap where the star of it was like the motherfucking man and the second in line gut cast my.

Boy, we're making outcast not outcasts.

Everybody like that because the way people talk about three thousand is like big Boy never had a good verse ever, which is wild.

This is just crazy.

I disagree with that actually, and I do hate those people. It's a lot of.

People that name Andre three thousand as a as A as like one of the greatest rap bro.

There is no Andre three thousands. There is none.

There is none, Like literally, there's only outcasts. Like he's literally going out his way to not release a solo album. At best, he'll team up with other rappers, so that means he's a permanent group member on purpose. And it's not a slight towards Andre three thousand, Like I'm a huge outcast fan, like Andre three thousand is part of my fucking child a coming into a fucking adult, Like he's fucking amazing and he's a fucking awesome guy and

Just let me make my point. I've seen Michael Jordan play, and then he gave you context. I've seen Michael Jordan play before I came to the Bulls. You guys have seen him play. He was horrible to play with. That was a common theme throughout Michael Jordan's earlier career. When I was young, people talked about Michael Jordan as a fucking hot dog.

I get that the narrative has been rerolled because horrible play.

It's Okay, it's okay, it's old fucking ky because he still became Michael fucking Jordan's. But it's not like he's saying, Hey, Michael Jordan can't play basketball. Michael Jordan is not the greatest shooting guard.

He's saying. Y'all, dudes, keep trying to do this, but look at what's going on. You're undervowing, what undervaluing. It's crazy to say that Michael Jordan could be overrated, but it's really true. That's what you're saying, though, But it's true because you guys rate him. You guys rate him as if he can win with anybody. That's the belief Michael Jordan. It's like, no, he's saying that, though one said that, I'm not seeing Michael Jordan's saying that. Notice

You know, when Dave Chapelle said that, ye, who does that sound like.

It sounds like you?

You do that, say Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever. You will do that, not Michael Jordan. Jordan's never said.

I'm a greatest That's a lie. Never lie, that's a lie. You want me to find a video.

I'm saying what you want me to find a video.

It's a literal video of him saying, when I leave the game, I would like to think that I was the greatest.

That's not the same as saying I am.

Do you believe you're player? And he said when I leave the game, I would like to think that I was the greatest. He's that's his that's again being modest about a concept. He's never said there's only one player in history that said he was the greatest basketball player on the plane.

That's a lie.

That's only.

Another lie.

You just said the only one guy ever you telling lies. I've never heard another guy in my life say that, and I've been watching basketball for a long time, forty years.

There's literally an interview in which when viral is fucking what Scottie Pippen said, Michael Jordan would never say that because he has too respect for history. That's out of Scottie Pippin's mouth is that Michael.

Jordan is not the problem. Scotty Pippen is not the problem. These the times of the world are the problems.

The problem is, listen, Lebron James is not a problem.

I always say this, even like Lebron James. You cannot hate or love Lebron James. Lebron James is like hick him up. It's not over flavored. You just it's moist.

So you just enjoy the wholeness of it all that the replenishment. You just enjoy it's happening.

But when people start to talk about how great the flavory is of it, they go to fucking far. It's everybody else. It's not Michael Jordan's Michael Jordan's fucking He did what he had to do. It's up to you.

But y'all get out of fucking control.

And so, oh, Michael Jordan's great. They ever play the game positions, he's better than deal with. He's accomplished one, bro. Shut the fuck up. No, he fucking didn't. I know this, motherfucker. I remember when my guy, my favorite player, Magic Johnson, they was the guys when he couldn't have shit. He had to wait till he got Scotty fucking Pippin.

That's not a knot. That's not to say he didn't go on to become the great.

What did Magic have to wait for when he came into the league as a rookie playing with the guy that won m v P the year before that ship don't matter that any nigga. They barely was making the playoffs. You don't want to pitch.

Let me say my point, is Michael Jordan on the team when it came we do the.

Same wall the way?

Wait wait wait, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Not a king with Kareem. Put Mike on the team with Kareem.

It doesn't work, all right, Mike, we never saw.

To play with the big man's. I have no idea that wo work. By the way, I do what I do.

I do want to say this because I have set up here and watched. I think it was Lakers Blazers seventy eight. Gee, the Lakers guards couldn't get the ball up the court.

It was horrible. They literally couldn't get So Michael Jordan's coming into the list playing with Kareem wouldn't have been able to get the ball off the court the year after it's coming. No way, we don't know, bro. We never saw Mike acting like Magic. Johnson got put into some fucking bad situation. Magic was that nigga out of college, and so was Michael Jordan. Jacks Worthy was that Kareem jam James Worthy was that nigga to college Gee Magic came onto a team with James Worthy and Magic.

James Worthy didn't even come to two.

Actually he didn't. He didn't. You're right, you're right. It was.

To listen to me.

Magic Johnson was that nigga coming out of college and into the NBA. They literally wanted to make him the m v P of what gave it to Kareem, but they wanted to make him the m v P.

It was like, we can't give it to a rookie. It has no presidents. That's actually a lot. They gave the award to Magic because Kareem wasn't. They gave him the finals MVP because they weren't gonna give him no fucking regular season. It was.

That's how fucking awesome he was, Fucking Magic Johnson.

The point I'm making, the point I am making to you is Michael Jordan was these things.

Gott he Pipping was saying. That's how people looked at Michael Jordan.

Because he didn't play with great players. To start, he had he had a thirty five year old George Gervin on his team when he was a fucking rig style. Kareem thirty. Did you really just name Orlando Wooden? It was solid, man, Get the fuck out of nigga. It's not that much compared to Kareem. I knew Jamar, Michael Jordan or Norm Nixon. He he better than Norm Nixon. Out of my house right now. Tell me, George, the situation would have been different. I don't know.

All right, bro it is Magic Johnson.

All right, brof this ischould have been different. I don't know. It is magic Johnson Brown before Mike got there. Yeah. Yeah, you keep reducing Magic Johnson. Damn it is Magic Johnson, and it is Michael Jordan's and it was.

Guard.

It's the greatest point guard with magic.

Was the thirteen game increase. They went from losing in the second round and five to winning the championship.

I just want to say that with.

Kareem hurt, Kareem wasn't hurt the whole year.

What are we talking about?

He got hurt when it mattered.

They went from losing in the second round in five games to the Sonics and win it for his seven games, to win its sixty games and win the championship.

Oh so, oh so cool.

So magic came to a good team. Okay, that's on the way tv TV TV, No further tv tv TV. That's the Thunders record. That is the Russell Westbrook thunder teams record. What are you talking about?

That is forty point forty seven and thirty five is the Russell Westbrook thunder seam.

So it's a good team. What you mean?

It's a good team?

So Russell Westbrook played for a good team.

What's Kareem not the star and won MVP that year?

The difference is this area?

No, no, no, no, my same no, it's the same point I'm making if Kareem was out there with essentially quote unquote nobody or solid team won forty seven games RUSS. Same thing, y'all told me RUSS team was good. Did y'all not just say that? So if you put Magic fucking Johnson on either one of them teams, they're not gonna be better.

If you put Magic Johnson on that Bulls team their way.

No, that's not what I just asked you. Why y'all answer questions?

I just gave you a better answer.

Why you can't answer question as better if you put Magic Johnson on that Ross team? Because you all are the one that just said that. Okay, see ship, I didn't just say that a second ago.

If you put Magic Johnson on rough team in the NBA in history, they're much better team.

Their playoff team. Pin on the team, any team in history.

Pin on the team.

There's not a team. He's not telling them. Tell him to go play with George Gervin and all them guys that might play. He makes them a playoff team.

Was a playoff team, but they had a negative five record. They wouldn't have a negative file. They would have never had a negative five hundred one.

Good Mike won.

Great.

They still not saying Mike was it. We're not saying what.

Player before I came there? Really, Scott, he was a person. I just listen to it. You want me to pull it up.

I gave you the context of it.

No, fuck the context actually whatever the man's saying. He said this as well, do you want to put it up? I literally was listening to it while y'all was talking.

I remember it.

Every No, no, we're not talking everybody. Everybody put up the first line. He said that what you said? He was? What?

He what?

He more? When said he was a horble player to play with.

That's what he was talking about when he said he's a horrible player.

It's just not player, it's just Scotty and he can't talk. So now you so now again, like I said, you gonna make Scotty say what he didn't say because you wanted to mean what you want to.

Well, he'm so so you're gonna let me play the Clifton listen, just leave the Clion.

He went further on his point to explain what he meant. It's all we're saying to you, Tom, this is the.

Whole player to play with. That wasn't the crazyest, David? Can you add my share screen to the thing?

Yes, sir.

There was even a point in time which people said somebody could never lead the league talking. Let Scotty Pippin talk.

Ron would be the greatest statistical guy to ever play the game or buy basketball. It's not wrong, and there's no comparison to him, none.

And I don't even like that, so I disagree that's probably the worst.

Greatest player to ever play the game. I leave that out for debatings because I don't believe that there's a great player. Because our game is a team game. One player can't do it like I've seen Michael Jordan's play before I came to play with the Bulls. You goys seen him play. He's a horrible player. He was horrible to play with.

Thank you, stop fucking lying.

He was.

When he went further, he said he was able to play with. That's literally what he say. He was able player. He was able to play with. They cut it off. So what is a horrible player? Then you use the word horrible about him? He said he was a horrible player country with how the he know he wasn't playing with Michael times with three niggas open and everybody said that he had George Gervin on his team shooting the fucking ball on them times.

Bro, do you not fucking old George govern wasn't that right now? Y'all give Lebron James right?

Bro?

What year did Gervin tell me how many points?

He average?

Was?

Still early eighties?

Girvin was nasty, Bro, You're not the man.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no like that.

No, no, that's Kevin to sit up here and fucking lie George Gervin. We was thirty two years old, average sixteen points, two rebounds and one point eight six we talking about a guy that was Olf Desent's hell, bro G, he was not the same fucking guy he was God, he was over the hell. He would literally didn't play anymore after that year. This is last year in the NBA. What are you talking about? He played eighty two games, and he played the next year, he played eighty two games.

People are good at three throws.

Then then why did he then? Why did he playing Italy the next year? Not playing the league because he wanted too. You want a nigga, because he wasn't fucking good no more, and it was over what.

You mean, he wasn't good?

Head teams, bro TV, you want you to cut on the fucking Bulls game from that season and watch George Gervin and tell me that's the same fucking George Gerdy. I remember that game as a kid. It's the iceman, bro I'm not talking about a game. Turn on any one of them and.

Some of those A lot of the men come on TV.

Back then, he was melted ice back then. He was not the iceman. He was defrosted back then.

Bro George Gervin on line you up for that ship, let him line me up.

Hen you know, he was defrosted back then. He wasn't nice. He was throwing the fuck out.

Michael Jordan was a hot dog.

It's okay, and everybody said it, and they were right, all right, he was that's fine, but don't but don't change the man.

Words don't change the man.

He said, he was over, you're horrible to play with. He shut it off, he said it, and then he tried to clean it up because he know he's scared.

No, he he's hearing them.

G G.

Everybody just ain't eloquent with their words.

Bro Nigga knocked, maybe knock like he's some tough ass.

Maybe he should shut the fuck up. Then if he made the words, he didn't make a point. He did. He's saying, y'all saw him play. He was horrible to play with. He was a horrible player. And he's lying.

He's not lying.

It's videos of three niggas being open.

Mike that nigga.

Shoot, now, he might have made it, but what the fuck bro like, No, they're there.

The big part is Mike playing eighteen games is rookie year anyways?

No? No, no second year when he that's that's year, second eighty four, eighty five, second played.

Let me make this man, We're gonna be this.

That's all the fucking last days lie. Remember when they acted like fucking he just came back with the last five games off of broke foot. No, they worked him in. He played this minute, is this minute?

Is this minute?

It was a couple of with the last fucking line. So you want them to say, oh, well, Mike played eighteen games and we slowly brought him back on the bit and then the playoffs at yes, because they made me believe this.

Nigga just came out with a broken foot forty played forty minutes.

And if you want a manuscript of history, read a fucking book, not watch a documentary. And now a documentary, nigga put it in there. If you want a manuscript of the fucking bulls history, read a fucking book and not watch a documentary. The reason is there's a lot of documentaries that leave shit out that don't make dementary and valid because they left one point out. Fucking in man.

The reason I've never got into the the Last Dance is because it is Michael Jordan's mind. Cast is really his propaganda to push his greatness, and you don't need it because you're Michael Jordan already.

But that's fine. Look, that's not all that.

It was. Let me go back to trying to use that and make a popularity piece for viewership. Greatness that already existed. They were trying to leverage greatness that existed for profits, so they amplified the point for marketing purposes in facts.

Agreed. I agree, Yeah, that's exactly like like the Nazis were great, but they just you and you and ya. I'm saying that you.

Listen, greatness is impactful. It's not you have to agree with it. It just means it's impactful.

They had a good little military run there for a second. First that.

It's not the point.

Let me let me go back to something that he said right there. Let me go back to something he said right there, right He said.

Lebron James is the greatest statistical basketball player.

I hate when people say that.

And you know why, They say that because they like, well, Lebron James is he's number one in scoring and he's top five in assists, Like, there are only a few guys to have top five and statistical categories. Until you look and you look at who has the most points in blocks, who has the most points in rebounds, there are guys in the top five of both categories.

If we're being.

Honest, Will is the greatest statistical player to ever play basketball. Who Wilt Chamberlain agreed. Yeah, yeah, if we talk about purely stats, he is like literally, one year he averaged let me see, we just literally just straight talking the stats. He averaged like fifty points a game, twenty five point seven rebounds, and two point four.

Assists on fifty percent before they counted blocks.

Yeah, that was way before they counted blocks and Will and Will has thirty thousand points and twenty three thousand rebounds and four thousand, six hundred assists. Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker. Will was tough. He would be tougher for Bill Russell. Bill Russells. Bill, we had discussion. Bill Russell was there before. We're not doing this right now exactly.

He owns him.

But it was the same way.

Early and it wasn't anyway.

It didn't count, Doctor King was he was still alive.

Good looking.

Out for tuning into the note Seller's podcast. Please do us a favorite, subscribe, rate, comment, and share. This episode was recorded right here on the West coast of the USA and produced by my homeboy A King, for the Black Effect Podcast Network and nine Heart Radio.

Yeah.