What's up?
And welcome back to another episode of No Sealers Podcast with your host. Now, fuck that with your loaw glasses, Malone. This is some crazy shit and I can't believe we having another conversation about this. But there's two problems. One problem is people still don't understand the definition of snitching. That's one problem. Yes, you know what I mean, And I get why because with street times, this is why
we need to write the cryption area. This is why, because I think people Google and it's like, you can't trust Google with street y know, with slang, with culture like it it's Google.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, if I'm not writing for maybe I'll need to apply to write all of.
The slang parts for Google, like a cultural things for Google.
They need to come, like I need to pitch that, I need to send them niggas my resume.
Bro.
I agree, and we could do the you do the cryption area, and then to keep it, you know, from being one and done, you could have the Cryptcyclopedia where your new volumes continue to come out all the time like.
That, like that the Sea Cyclopedia.
Yeah, Encyclopedia, Yeah, the Encyclopoedia, the c Cyclopedia for t yeah. So yeah, it's these that have Britannica gonna be critic Cryptannica.
So anyway, So one they don't know the definition. They don't know the definition of snitches.
Still, I think it's deeper than that.
But two, you know what else it is, it's people who.
Okay, when you start living your life in the streets, right you you are raising the culture of things. It's not so much that somebody sits you down the day. I mean, no different than being an Italian, right, nobody sits you down and say, hey, Pete, this is how you be Italian.
Hey Pete.
It's like you learn over time the culture. So also you learn the nuances of it. Now, there are rules that when you're talking to people outside of culture and you say, hey, these are the rules, you try to give it to them in a real brief kind of like.
In a really simplistic way.
So like culturally, you know, when you start talking about any level of street, urban culture or criminals period. Don't talk to the police is the general context of the conversation. Do not make statements to the police, right, don't make statements. They'll simplify say, don't talk to the police. Now that doesn't mean the police that drive by your house you can't say hi, or if the police say hey, what's
going on, or you can't say that. It's a nuance that shouldn't have to be explained because culturally you're raised.
To understand it.
Yeah, nobody's gonna call you a snitch if somebody breaks in your car, right, if somebody breaks in your fucking car and steals your shit, if you call the police and get a police report to get your insurance, nobody's going to call you a snitch.
Nobody's gonna call you a snitch.
But even though the rule to the general population when we're talking about this is don't talk to the police, that's not what that means.
And it's tough because it's nuances.
And that's my problem is when we're trying to translate the culture to the uncultured, that's the problem. It's like trying to tell someone who doesn't have soul how to make soul food. Like if you see people like if you see old sisters, like, oh.
Black women cook, they don't need a measuring cup.
Yeah yeah, I mean, if you watch an old Northern Italian lady make a pizza, you know what I mean that came from the ghettos of Italy.
She doesn't really need a measuring cup. She just does this shit right.
And when the uncultured tried to do it, they need a measuring cup because they don't have the years and years of not just experience, but the lineage of soul to connect to. And that's the thing with freed urban culture in general, like it's certain things that we know without even having to say. Like I watched so many people make It's been so many conversations over the last week or two about people talking snitching stuff, and it's
just irritating me so much because it's simple. It's fucking simple. But I'm starting to realize it's only simple to me. Sure, if somebody called the police and reported it to they insurance company says somebody broke in their car, I know that's not snitchy. Yeah, if somebody you know what I mean, Even if a gangster knew somebody was raping or a pedophile when he called the police, I wouldn't call that person a snitch. Nobody in the community would call that
person a snitch. They might call him a bitch because that he didn't kill the person who was who was the pedophile. But they're not going to call him a snitch. They're not going to disassociate themselves with him because he told the police on a pedophile. They're going to call him a bitch because they're gonna be like, why you didn't do nothing to this motherfucker.
Sure, I'll go a step further.
The way it boils down to me when I look at it, you have, as you said before, if you're in the underworld lifestyle or whatever, you're committed to that that's where you are. You have a responsibility to uphold that lifestyle.
It becomes your standards.
On Similarly, if you're in general society, you have a responsibility to uphold the standards for that lifestyle. It's a tradition, yes, and they're both necessary for the sustainability of each world.
Sure, if you're not.
Testifying and doing your job to clean up your normal world lifestyle, you're failing in your commitment to your community. If you're snitching out and corroding the underworld, you're failing your commitment to that community.
Yeah.
So, therefore, if you're it comes down to people failing to buy into who exactly they really are. If you're if you're a square, you shouldn't even be allowed to.
Say the word snitch.
Exactly. You shouldn't.
It's not even your business to criticize somebody else for stitching, because they're doing what is supposed to happen in your world.
You should be happy about.
That, exactly.
I have said something happened with Drake where he got robbed at that that whatever, that Asian food spot in Toronto that Kendrick made a popular newhaut King. I forgot the name of it. I got the New Hauk King. They got the Kendrick Special or the Kato Special whatever. But Drake got robbed there, right, and he called the police.
He gave a statement. Right.
Somebody asked me why I didn't care, Like why didn't you say nothing then? And I'm like, I'm not saying nothing now. Drake should have called the police. He's reported to the proper authority because Drake is not thugging. You know, I never cared that Lil Wayne had a problem with Drake oversleeping with the girl, or why Puff put his hands on him and he didn't fight back, or y t I's man pissed on him and he didn't do nothing.
You know why I never had a problem with that or never called Drake out of his name over that, because Drake is not that kind of person.
He's a general population person.
Now I can get if he's starting to confuse himself, if he's starting to walk the thin line, because when you look at certain things like what's going on with them and the exol camp, you know, the weekend's camp. And Okay, a security guard at one of the primary people's.
House, cash House, right, Cash House, gets shot.
And then somebody at Drake's at the embassy in Toronto, the sound security guard that works not the same security guard rather, but a security guard that works almost in the same position, he gets shot. Now I'm starting to worry, Like, bro, are you playing street?
Like?
Are you playing street like?
This is something you don't play with, Like, yes, you have tons of money, tons of resources, but that's not.
What this is about. Like they will find a way and they will break you down.
If you didn't grow up in this culturally, it's not something you pick up and play with you. I mean, that's why I never called him a snitch, because I knew he was a part of general population, you.
Know what I mean?
In Gunner situation, like, see, I don't know him, but I'm listening to what he's saying. Now, Drake is different because I do kind of have knowledge of who he is. I've met him, I've interacted with him. Some people I really fuck with interact with him, so I know he's a part of general population minus all the conversations Gunner shit, you hang in around some pretty unsavory characters. That's really good guys in my world, and you're saying you're a crypt so.
I'm taking you at face value.
Now my homie is just telling me, like last is no, he has never been in this life.
And he's like, you remember he had the Crime.
Stoppers video where or the video on the news where his cousin got shot.
And I'm like, yeah, that's true.
It's like, you think we would have let him come up in the world of hip hop and talk that shit if we thought, you know what I mean, he was like us. And then he told or he did that video that would be a problem and I'm like, yeah, that makes sense.
I'm like, but why would y'all?
And then it hit me like, of course hip hop is not going to get in the way of people that come from the community trying to change their life economically, you.
Know what I mean.
We understand they stand up dudes, but it's weird when you see people that don't tell you anything, so like it's crazy to learn, like, now, oh, he's not like that at all. He's just not like that. So now it's like, then, well is he a snitch because you know he he you know, because he folded on thug and took a deal where he had to admit where
he said other people around him. First off, in a rico case, if you emit someone's a gang, you're you're pretty much making him lose the case because that's the point. And if you emit crimes were happening in the name of this alleged gang, guess what that's you. You're helping them convict on a rico charge. Now, if they're gonna be at a hit him with all the rest of
the stuff is different. But if you're telling me now that Gunn had never been that, then shit, now I look stupidcause it's like, oh, this is a general my bad. I thought he was like us. I thought anybody who's talking like this, And then I had to kind of correct myself because Drake is talking like this and I know better.
Sure some of that is like, well, if you're not, you know, with that lifestyle, you shouldn't even have the knowledge. You know, at some point, why are you even able to viably testify about any of this shit.
If you're not you know what I'm saying. Well, it's like like.
Like he should be insulated from enough viable information, Like if you're responsible, if Thug is responsible and stuff like that, sure, why would you why you got squares playing tag along and doing right along?
Like it's you know what I'm saying, it's not an internship.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Doug probably had did mess up if he was in any of that, any of that situation.
Thug messed up, You're right.
Yeah, I mean otherwise it's like, are these people uh uh you know credible criminal syndicate?
Yes?
Why do you think that? I don't really heard that they were. That's not the most viable testimony. I was there when they did a B C D e FG is more viable. And there you have it.
It's crazy because as much as I like I tell Head all the time, I'm like like DJ Head, like you came up in the streets, so you know the rules. Like Head very much is somebody who came up in the streets. Now it's Head ever really committed crimes, I'm sure to some degree, like some some minor infractions. You know, he's a skateboarder, so I'm sure he's skateboarder at some places. But Head understands the rules. But you're right as somebody
that really as somebody that's thugging. I would like when stuff would happen, I would tell here like, hey, if this go down, go get the car.
Just go get the car. Yo.
If something start, just go he like, glasses, I'm not no punk, and I'm like, it's not about being a punk, Like I think you will fight everybody here. I don't think that you are scared to have a fist fight. You a man, I said, But if it starts to become something illegal, I don't want you to have to put these things, you know what I mean. I don't want to have to put you the task to where you see these things. Now, now you have to stand up somewhere that you really kept yourself out of all
these problems. Hell Pun, you know, shout out to Pun, shout out to means and different people that I know that came up from the same background like me, thugging, I wouldn't even let them get in trouble. Shout out to a Shad Chad's new Cali catering. When Shad would be around me, I wouldn't even let them get in trouble. I'm like, my goal for y'all is to get you out of the same trouble like this got me out
of the troubles that I was in. So I wouldn't even let them get into Shenanigan or try to start fighting. I'm like a calm down. We didn't come way up here to do the same thing we was doing around the corner from home.
So, and there's exposure in both ways.
It's likely you bring people around now they're exposed to being some loosely defined participant, so it exposes them to risk, which they're going to want to offload, which exposes in turn you to risk.
Well, it brings me to my thought, and it's with how long would you say?
Now?
It's not fair people, because you very much are general population, but you have an edge and you do have a nuance about you that can understand a little more layers than the average person in general population about street life. And I think it's because you're somebody who has truly self self appointed, like you have shame and you have dignity like you, you know what I mean.
You care waha way more shame.
Shame in twenty twenty four when they're trying to purge everyone of shame, says a lot about you.
So I can, I can honor you. I can.
I'm honored to have this conversation with you, even as a person shat you feel me? So, how long would be a good enough time? How long would be a nice amount of time before you take a person that's in the underworld or in the criminal lifestyle and then they change their life and they become a person in general population to where they can run a business and use the police assistance like any other taxpaying citizen in America. How far removed do you have to be from thugging from thug them?
Depends on the person, It depends on the circumstances. I mean, I'll say it could be twenty four hours. If you're doing square shitty, you're done with that and you're gonna deal with square things in a square way.
Then that's what you do. If you know you're being If you still have old beefs that.
Come after you, whatever the hell, then you know how you want to settle those is how you want to settle those. But like if it's if you did whatever two years ago and it's not under it hasn't expired yet, you know what I mean.
But you've changed your life.
You're still liable for those things that you did when you were in that life. You can't walk away from that and now testify on them because I'm out now. You did that on the day that you did that, So that's with you as long as that thing is available to be with you.
But that's fair, you know.
But once you're done, you don't have to. You know, somebody wants to threaten and extort you because you opened up a hardware store and you're done. If you're done, and every and and the people around you who you did stuff with acknowledge that you're done in this cold and.
Go ahead and say, hey man, blah blah blah, peat I'm being extorted by bib over there. I'm just trying to run a square hardware store.
Do you think you have to separate from the crowd.
I was thinking about that, right, Like, is it fair to say you're not thugging if the crowd you still hanging around is thugging, you know what I mean?
Because there has to be understanding.
The crowd has to know that you're not, and you have to know that you're not, and you have to understand it's cool to play dominoes at the barbecue, but it isn't cool to ride along in the shit if that's not what you want to be involved in. Because I've been at enough of those things, with enough of those people, enough of those times.
My limitations know what I do and don't do.
Sure, I was thinking same thing. I was just thinking about it.
And I was like, Bunbee is going through this case right, and somebody tried to well, they did a home invasion on his home and the burglar or the perpetrator end up getting shot. This is twenty nineteen roughly, so they ran up on Bunn and his wife Queenie. Shout out to Bun real stand up brother. Always has been rest in peace, pimp. But is it wrong that I look at Bun like bun has been so successful for the last twenty years?
You know, I mean even before that.
I'm talking about since I've met him in pimping them, right, They've been successful for so long that I know Bun is not of this life anymore.
Now.
I think Bun lived the life at one time that was a little bit more street, But I don't think Bunn has lived a street life.
And I don't know.
Fifteen years at best, you know what I'm saying. This man opened a burger franchise, you I mean, he's been a successful rapper, you know what I mean, a pundit on television shows when it comes to black issues and rites. And I saw somebody post him on a stand in him crying, going through this deep memory of how it has messed his wife up to where you know she was really should because somebody came into the place that's
supposed to be private for you. Sure, that's supposed to be private for you, you know what I mean, And somebody came and invaded that space and it left a crazy, you know, like effect on his old lady, you know what I mean, on Queenie. And it's like he has to tell because this is part of his case. This dude
got shot. It could put Bun in trouble, you know, him defending his household, and I saw a thread of people, young people, people who work at Cuba kudezk calling him a snitch, and I'm like, like, this is the problem. This is why I made that big deal out of declaring Drake is not hip hop, because you have to understand the type of people that can be held accountable and that should be speaking for the culture of this life.
Because if you have people that speak for this culture that don't quite understand it, even if they don't have the same opinion as me, they have some kind of opinion that's rooted in a level of that's not fear, Like it's too many people speaking on things based out of fear.
But back to the bunch.
So it's a thread of young people who probably work at cubicles calling this man a snitch, and I'm like, that's not what that means. And it's so frustrating because it's like, bro, like, it's a really simple thing if you was raised into it culturally.
And it hit me.
It's so many black people in America that are not culturally involved with shit. They are really Americans. They are fucking Americans. And I'm talking about Pete, real Americans. I'm talking about American American. They as American as America, and they feel like because their skin is dark or because white people don't like them, that they are a part
of the culture. And it's like, no fool, you're getting treated like that way because white people treat everybody that way that's not white in America, and some people that's white in America they mistreat them. And just separating Black culture versus Black experience, I keep saying, this Black culture is how people treat each other. The Black experience is how somebody treats you, right, treats black people. But if you don't treat other black people in this way, how
do you talk to them? When I see a brother, Pete, it's a way I speak to him.
It's when we cook, when we eat, it's the way we eat.
It's things we do that create the culture of what being a brother in America is all about. It's not just being mistreated by white people. Mexican people get mistreated by white American peak. Every fucking body, Italian, Irish people get mistreated by the white person in America. And I'm not saying one gets treated worse or I'm just saying everybody feels that treatment, so the experience cannot be the thing you hang off of.
Which is why people feel entitled to.
Judge this man and think that they have a right to even use this fucking term in a way that's incorrect and fucking silly. Nobody from the streets would ever call Bun a snitch in this situation. Nobody that ever grew up in our life peak, not even people with sense like you who didn't grow up in this life.
You would use sense and be like, that's different, that's different.
Like people wonder why the nuance of what's going on with Cowboy you know Nips Big Hommy from sixty Thunderhead, right, they don't understand that there's a nuance that we all know as.
People that really lived in the streets.
We'll look at him like, ah, I'm gonna just stay away from that one because it's a little more tricky. What was said in court is a little bit more tricky, you know, talking to the police, it's nuanced, So you usually just stay the fuck out of it because you don't have the details and it's not your business to politico, you know what I mean. But again, if people want to make it like there's this fine line of what's snitching in and what's not. Then you don't understand the line.
Yeah, and I think you know, from an outsider's perspective, there is a degree a portion maybe of a black community that has a little bit of identity crisis in so far as how they want to perceive themselves. And if they're not really in the quote cultural epicenter of the community, then I think there's some validity to the idea that hip hop has provided them access to being or feeling like they are a little closer to the epicenter of the community than maybe they actually are.
And they don't really might so much know.
The nuanced difference between the two, so they take what they hear, distilled lines or whatever, out of context from their access bridge and then yeah, take them and run with them beyond the narrow confines which they exist in that episode.
Yeah, I get what you're saying.
That's the tricky part about when people say hip hop is black culture. I get the jest of it. Shout out to Tarik, another brother, I really respect. I mean, everybody knows how much I really hidden Colors is just like, man, it's incredible it's I'm a huge fan of Tarika and I talked to the brother brilliant dude, so he just did a really dope film on hip hop and it talks about the hip hop's black roots, right, which fairness
is true, right? And I get it. And I have to be okay with people saying hip hop is black culture. I don't necessary. I think we could get a little bit more detailed, you know what I mean, But I think it's I get it. We're trying to hold onto something, right, But truly, hip hop is street urban culture personified through the arts. Truly, it just happened to be Pete. At that current time in New York, in the Bronx, black people made up ninety eight percent of street urban culture,
you know what I mean. Things the way we lived, you know, the spades, the Black gang the way we live, created all of the slang, all of the dancing style, all of the graffiti style. Ninety eight ninety nine percent is just us.
So I get why people need to hold that. And really it's more.
General population black people that feel more entitled to it than we When you come from the ghetto like where we live, which hip hop culture comes from it's natural.
You don't even think.
You almost mistake that everybody black talks like this. It's like when I would walk somewhere and I would speak slang to black people and they didn't get what I was saying. It would almost fuck me up because I'd be like, you don't get what I'm saying, Like, and it hit me that the ghettos make up this really small population in this country. Like when people say La is not dangerous, like La is dangerous, I'm like, well,
Los Angeles, the city is huge. It's not just Watts or Compter like where I grew up at, or Long Beach, you know what I mean, the county or or you know, the city. Forgive me, including Long Beach in the city. But I'm saying like Brentwood is in the city of Los Angeles. P Kueima is in the city of Los Angeles. Hollywood Sam Pedro is a neighborhood in the city of Los Angeles. So there's a lot of places in Los Angeles that are not exactly like Watts or Compton.
Don't get me.
Wrong, they could have some shit, but it's different. And then some of these places don't have no shit going on. So most more times than not, there's not a bunch of crime, you know what I'm saying. So I have to remember the way that I grew up and people like me grew up. It's not the standard for America. That's what makes hip hop special. Listen, almost every state, every state in this country has black people. Every state
in this country has black people. I'm not sure every state in this country has a ghetto.
I'm not sure you.
Have, depending on your definition, you know what I'm.
Saying, where they have the ghetto things happening, Like, I don't think every state in this country has a ghetto. It can change because I know certain places like when you start getting to that western part that's close to the midwestern Dakotas and certain places like that, Like I know Omaha has a ghetto, but North Dakota, I think the ghetto, if I remember correctly, would be like Indian people, like.
It's more of a start getting into the risk where it's.
Started being rural.
And that's why I'm saying in that regards a ghetto is in a city, it's a densely populated thing.
It's not really.
You might get some really down and out small you know, white trailer park communities that are just the government.
If it's not, you know, ghettos are in cities like there are a poor life that's hell of rural. Yeah, and and so it's different. It's still a little different, if that makes sense.
And that's on a related, unrelated note.
I found it so odd driving back or in and out of out of the state of Alabama to go look at some properties in Montgomery. A few times we actually pull up on these tiny, little like truck stop towns with a seven to eleven, a gas station in the general store, and public housing projects in the.
Middle of the field. It's the middle of nowhere. I'm like, they got more rural projects out here. I don't know how the hell has even happened.
And I was like, boy, if you if you were born there, God, that's got to be the most uphill battle in this country. Not only are you poor in the projects, you are geographically a long, long fucking way from exposure to anything else. You might as well just tell your kids, Look, kids, I probably shouldn't have had you, but you're here.
Your game plan is graduate high school, join the army, get the fuck out of here.
Mmm.
It sounds sounds like a shitty thing to say. No, I mean, my god, what else are you gonna do? What the fuck else are you gonna do?
But but you have to take that series because it's like, even growing up in wats it feels like six sense is far and it's close. Success is so far, but it's so many people, so distracting you don't realize how close it is because it feels like it's infinity. No, that can't take the ground in Alabama beach. Yeah, that that till you talking about in Alabama. That is the real deal version of that. Whereas like where's the success at Yeah, I.
Mean not only like you can't see success like you're you you're so fucking far, and and and the cost, the actual cost to just go see where any kind of innovation is happening at all. Hm, I mean it would take it would shatter your budget for a month just to go see where things are happening somewhere in real life.
Yeah, that's a that's a that's a real fact. Yeah.
It started just to frustrate me, man. And sometimes that's how I'm getting older and wiser. I'm getting older because some of this shit is starting to be stupid. And it's pissing me off. Too many things is starting to be just stupid and pissing me off. But I'm getting older because I can also tell I have enough wisdom not to argue. I have enough wisdom not to inform people of their silliness. It's like, you're not really even You're not special enough to even you're not gamed up
enough to even have this conversation. You can't even digest what I'm finna say to you, like when I talk to certain people, if I can't talk to them, like me to you, like if I have to talk because people are especially in today's time, because people are different in front of other people. So social media makes people feel like they're in front of other people, so you can't have a real conversation.
I mean, people are guarded.
They're putting on the show because they don't want to be viewed socially in a certain way. So you have to have these conversations in person, you know what I mean. So I couldn't go down that list of people and talk to them and say, hey, man, that's not how snitching works, and then use my one hundred and forty characters on X and explain to them why, you know what I mean, because they won't they're too busy defending
and worried about social perception to be educated on the topic. True, they don't want to again shame that not having shame, you know what I'm saying. And people don't want to admit they're ignorant on something. Yeah, they just want to have content. They want to provide content. They want to following. They want people to follow them even though they haven't done anything worth following.
And I think, you know, some of the challenges with aspects of like the culture or hip hop or whatever I ever you want to describe it as, there's not a really good lie.
Like a lot of rappers they're cool.
They're like, I've never met a rapper who didn't have like a lot of personality or very.
Interesting to talk to, you know what I mean.
You can't do that if you're like a dead pan whatever the fuck just bump on a law and the stuff they talk about tends to have in a lot of cases some criminal elements to it. And I think a lot of average listeners, well, they can't separate the two. They see, Wow, that guy's really cool and he's talking about this so this must be really cool.
The guy is really cool. He's talking about this, but he's really cool. You don't have to do this to be cool.
You can just like the guy or be like his personality and you're still cool, you know what I mean. So that they start to conflate and they don't understand it.
Yeah, I know, forgive me, and I was about that.
I said that really badly. I fucked that up aat. I know what you mean is. But it's also like when people talk about drill music. The average person who hears drill music, especially when the narrative is being guided, Oh, it's just murder rap, and it's like, that's not what's
going on. Like you're listening to little kids tell you soldier stories, right, Like It's like if our grandpa, Like if we was on a porch in nineteen forty nine and our grandfather had just came back from World War Two and he was telling the stories and he was telling us how people were dying, we wouldn't call it, oh, you're.
Just telling murder stories.
We would give credence to you know what he's talking about, because in our mind we would respect the war. I think most people don't hear drill music from Chicago and really respect the war. I respect it because I know how people get I know how fights happen, and I know how you have to defend yourself.
I know how far I can go.
So when I hear it, I hear the nuances of you know what I mean of a soldier, Like I don't want to hear Jeffrey Damer rap about eating people. I mean there's actually a rapper that used to be like that.
Yeah, I think that this is kind of where that.
Murky, like poorly defined glamorizing and glorification of violence conversation comes in because you have a cool person telling a bad story in a cool way.
So it's so I think people.
Think, oh, they must be saying that the content in the story is cool because they're cool telling a story in a cool way.
And it's not like that.
You know what it is.
And I know you hate this, peete, because but just think about it. True, like you one of my buddies, bro who as a white man, you do care about nuances. But I do know that no matter what, it's gonna be certain places that's gonna be like, why don't you're not gonna say glass. I don't know that you're gonna have it. You're not gonna be like totally vested and just make some shit up. But you won't get you know what I mean. It's something you want, let me
try it out. You ever notice how people respect cowboys stories and all cowboys are criminals?
Yeah?
This this is I say.
I say this about my whole monologue about the difference between the perception of film and music. Sure, you could make a movie about cowboys and the mafia and it's a great movie. You make a death metal song and a rap song about decay and death and depression, and you're going to court because somebody committed something and they're gonna say that they did it because of your music, And now all of a sudden you're civilly liable and getting sued.
It's it's and it's crazy because you're right. It does happen to rock. It used to happen to rock groups.
But did somebody Zy Osbourne getting sued because kids committed suicide And it's the same thing, like and it's you know, but I know what you mean, Like, if you're you shouldn't be begrudged because you know, as ice Cube making a song about South Central and you got a problem because Kurt Russell or not Kurt Russell would be because Val Kilmer played Doc Holliday, people up.
Into them stuff.
Yeah, It's almost like.
If rock didn't exist, I would almost be worried that it'd be racial. I mean, and I'm not good at that conversation, but I was talking to about it and I was like, they was like, glasses, man, you make that music.
That music is bad and you glow.
It from like where are the glory in it? He's like, you make that music. I'm like, bro, you're a huge fan of The godfatheruse Yeah, but it's sophisticated.
It's not sophisticated. And it was like I was like.
You thinking, give me your buddy, or I'm going to blow your brains out. Give you your buddy, or I'm going to blow your brains out. No matter what part of town it happens.
Kill my father, I'm going to kill all of you. You know what I'm saying, Like what do we like?
But I almost feel like because they see white people, they be like, oh, well, you know it's on the level the criminals. It's better, you know, they're they're more sophistic I'm like, bro, they are savages like and it goes back to my initial point of him pop being street urban culture. It's why people name themselves after old white street urban legends al Capone.
Interestingly, though not cowboys.
Yeah, I'm on it. I would be thinking about it. Gang bangers are just modern day cowboys out west. That's all they are. Hell yeah, right, but how many movies? The cowboy era probably lasted forty fifty years.
It's not two hundred years of cowboys stories now.
It really was just I think a lot of it was just like Civil War reconstruction, people going west. So you had a bunch of disparate criminals that were just leaving, you know, like they do have march through Georgia or whatever the hell destroyed everything.
They just like and I don't want to just make them like they just with some dicks. Like.
It was a tough time to be alive at that time and to trying to make it in life.
I mean, we're gonna go people because we've got nothing else to do.
We don't know the death penalty for stilling the horse.
That was the death penalty to.
Kill you over cheating cards at least that's what they say in the movies.
Yeah, but what I'm saying it was actually a legal punishment, death penalty if you stole a horse.
That was legal, not not like the person, so the state would so.
But I noticed there's one hundred cowboy movies. They not they're not even ten l a cowway culture is nowhere near as polarizing and as known as gang banging, right Cribson Bloods Gangster.
But there's a hundred cowboy movies.
Yeah, one subtle nuance, I will say, though. There aren't that many cowboy movies I can think of that are told from the first person of the cowboy. Usually they're told from the first person of the sheriff.
Well, notice most of the sheriff. Right.
My favorite cowboy movie is Wired Earth with Kevin Costner, who was actually born in Of course, he's my favorite movie because he's a Compton guy. Right, sure, so he was a fucking outlaw and then right he was an out He was an outlaw probably into his twenties.
In Kansas before he became the sheriff at Dodge City.
And then he was on the.
Run and that's how he became mind you, he never was held accountable for what he was on the run for. He was on the run, but still in the horse, and he watched the man and back then Robin the man is one thing, but still in the horse death penalty, kill your his horses, right, But he was on the run and that's how he got the job to become a lawman.
He was on the run.
So again, it's like that's the story of every gangster in La Like people don't like you. Look at Big You right now, Big You was doing things in the community. He's changing his life. He getting opportunities for people he
grew up with. That's why Earth everybody Dell Dog ended up changing his life and getting more into business and trying to help his friends make better business, Like whyatt Earth did with his brothers And guess what, whyat Earth still got into a crazy shootout that half his brothers got killed in.
Now at that point, can we consider it a lawful shootout?
Yeah, just like today, it could be a lawful shootout trying to defend your life, you know what I'm saying, trying to defend your life. So I think that's the point. Like and maybe you, maybe you got a point, But there is some movies told Billy the kid was in our law.
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Billy the Kid, like Dyllinger, was kind of the first gangster because he was right at the cusp of I think like and and and and Bonnie and Clyde where they moved from the horse to the car.
It was very early cars about them and praised them and their motherfuckers was horrible people.
Yeah, laying people down me at least that's the thought based off of today.
But I never hear people like you guys are glorifying you know, you're glorifying U. Bonnie and Clyde is like bro that telling a story. There's no glory in dying at the end. They didn't go down in the smiling Hey we're getting killed, Hey Luxuria.
Like you would think.
They talk about it like it's like them, them them bombers from the Middle East who get virgins when they throw that, you know, when they kill themself.
And interestingly enough, that is one of the things that bun Be discussed at length, particularly in the later work, is you guys are not socially responsible with the lyrics. You need to if you're gonna tell the you know, the part of the story. The activity part of the story you have to tell about when you get locked up and Howard Herscher found all the like he actually he and PIMPSI actually discussed the totality of the story
just ironically and that we're talking about. But you know what I mean, Like it's kind of interesting as they got older.
Yeah, but I also think that's also why those films are not that big, just like drill rap. Understand why drill rap is not that big, Like as influential as it is and as revered as it is, it's not this commercially successful genre. Like it didn't spawn what you know, g funk spawned, It didn't spawn those things, you know what I mean, Because I agree with you. I've always thought about that. Like Godfather is one of the few
movies that tell the story. But I guess Godfather doesn't really tell the story from the It tells the story of how somebody became a criminal.
Yeah right, if I remember, Yeah, yeah, I.
Mean it's it's it's from the inside. It's not like it would be different. I would say to compare it to The Untouchables, where Kevin Cosler Sean Connery are and they're talking about component the mafia.
From the outside.
It does exist from the inside, the same with Scarface from the inside.
Yeah, but but I think it becomes a different kind of story because I agree with you.
I think I always tell people the reason.
Colors is so successful, it's not because it's a gangster movie. It's a movie about the police in the relations between the older cop and a younger cop. Like you talking about Rocking who might have got nine minutes of camera time total in a probably eighty or ninety minute film.
Yeah, you're talking about Boys in the Hood is a father movie.
It's about about black kids with a father and black kids without a father.
You know what I'm saying.
It's not the first movie to me that was told from the perspective of.
Like Minister Society.
Minister Society is told from the perspective of the streets. But then again, it's also a coming up story where you see how somebody becomes who they become, and it's.
A claim didn't quite reach that of the other ones quite sure much. So there's that aspect too. And if you, if you get a chance, and I don't know for you or any listeners that have for Paramount plus app or whatever the hell They did a series about the making of The Godfather on there.
It was like a one season series. It was really cool. I can't remember the name of it.
But they actually talk about the behind the scenes play between the producers at Paramount trying to actually get clearance from the mob, who was like starting to threaten them, saying you're not going to make this movie, and Mario Puzzo s for Coppola and these guys, and they work out this thing with the head of one of the families to allow it to happen.
And the book itself, But this isn't the this isn't.
A mafia movie. We will not say the word mafia in the whole movie. They agreed to it's a movie about family. So they try to make the movie very much about family, you know what I mean. That's how they sold it, pitched it, and wrote it without saying the word mafia the whole fucking movie.
It's still alevilent identifying in America. I think most Americans are really simple. I think most Americans are really simple, So it's who you can relate to.
That's fair.
I'm not mad that white people see black people and they necessarily don't relate to them as soon like it, it's just.
A little thing.
So Godfather, even god for as great as Godfather is, you know what I mean, and as revered as it is, it's still white people trying to connegle white people.
The only part of that movie that I really identify with is the part where Clemenza is teaching Michael how to make sauce for everybody.
Yeah, let me look at this Godfather. How much money did it make?
Uh?
That wasn't it.
I have a hard time Like that's one of the things where every year the movie the Summer breaks all the rec because every year the price of the tickets go.
Up dollars two fifty to three hundred. See.
And that's the point, Like, I think people can identify even with white criminals America, can I mean white people, I mean, I guess, but it's hard for them to identify with the black outlaw.
Yeah. I think it maybe the greatest black outlaw movies.
And that's not even even Training Day is a white, clean policeman dealing with a crazy outlaw black police officer.
And then you're like even in Trading Day.
And I would say it in general, a lot of speak I can't think of the only real movie that I thought was really more about like say criminal stuff, like like like in Menace, there is an effort in that movie to make the main characters polite, seem sympathetic, and you don't. There's not maybe enough time and a lot of like hip hop and the songs to really solicit that, whereas it seems like there's a more concentrated effort to make even in Falling Down, it's like the
guys are fucking flipped out. He's a mass shooter running across Los Samsles, laying people down because of god knows what. But if they go out of their way to make it seem like he's the victim of all this shit the whole.
Time, you know what I mean, he kind of was the victim.
He was he was, But but you get what I say, the effort, I get it.
I don't know. We you know what, We're going to do another pod and we're gonna talk about that.
I'm going to talk about those movies, those Los Angeles movies. But I think really cultural movies of America as far as people outside of white people, I think it's hard for them to identify with any of that other stuff like training. They did a great job of telling two stories, Like really, they told one story. They told the the story of a dude coming up in the police force, same thing as Colors, where he's identifying he's just got.
A crazy rogue cop, brother cop.
Those movies are.
Basically the exact same, except in power.
American Gangster did a decent job, you know what I mean, because they told the story from the police's perspective, and they told the story from Frank lucas perspective. I think you have to give white people white lenses to look through.
Yeah, And I think some of this also was the fact that a lot of white people perceive, maybe like if not black people in general, with like black black criminals as being like impossibly hard, you.
Know what I mean, Like Frank Lucas throughout that movie.
Me and Nip used to talk about that making Gangster rap bro, I'm like, it's hard for people to identify with us now because they think like we're like superheroes or like we lived his lifestyle, Like.
Oh, I can't identify with him. He's crazy or he kills people versus until you.
Die, and then they're able to be like, oh, he's just like me like Nick where they finally got it after he passed away, but like during that time, like I think about people like Snoop and nice Tea, they reviewed as like super villains, you.
Know, and now the world is just comfortable with villains.
But then, like that's why I think I need to be really mindful as I'm working on music and finishing out my career and then going into another storyteller effort with films or comics to remember these ways of how people told stories and what made people connected characters, because like I think of a film like The Joker, you know, the Joker film with.
Joaquin Phoenix, Right.
Yeah, it's like they did a really good job of convincing you at why he became a villain. Sure, you know what I mean, They did a fucking fantastic job of convincing you why he was a villain.
That was almost kind of like a like a cartoon ish type version of like falling Down.
It's just this guy just keeps getting just kicked in the nuts all the time.
That just boom like that, like that.
There's a few films where you know, you see people, there's a few films where you see people like why they become why they become. That's a really tough way to tell a story, sure it is. It is especially about the character that we all know.
Yeah, Like I mean, like if they had made like say the movie Fences have a turn at the end where like Denzel's character goes and commits like some crime because he's just playing warn the hell out by the commitments, by being the track all all these things, you know what I mean, and he just gets behind the eight ball. It's like I'm desperate, I'm exhausted, I'm tired too, and whatever.
It would almost be something like that, for example, where you'd have to really sap go out of your way to establish stage setting as to like why you know what this dude got put through to want to go do this?
You know?
Good looking out for tuning in to the No Sellers podcast. Please do us a favorite, subscribe, rate, commentist Share. This episode was recorded right here on the West Coast of the USA and produced about the Black Effect Podcast Network and now Heard Radio.
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