Episode 80: Slasher Summer

defined by tiny vintage shorts, blown out hair, and finding reasons to pose with VHS tapes that they probably can't play. I don't wanna be that much of a boomer, but who actually owns a VHS player anymore? But you can find many outfit guides on Instagram if you're looking to just fit the aesthetic, but we're talking about more than aesthetics tonight.

Uh many things come to mind. We think of an 80s summer camp slasher. You got hot camp counselors neglecting the children, committing debauchery, and then getting murdered. All while making incredibly problematic jokes that would get the entire cast and crew cancelled into

Do you have any horror camp stories, Cannon?

So I've never been to a summer camp, nor will I ever go to a summer camp. While writing this episode, I researched how expensive summer camps were for the children that I don't have. So all around just not not me. But Mike, I have a feeling you may have gone to summer camp. Am I right?

Alright, so it's time to talk about this week's Coroners Report. It's a good one. This is the interactive portion of our show where the audience can jump in and give their feedback and be featured in the episode, even if they can't be on the mic with us in real time. To be featured in the coroner's report, you can comment on Instagram or give us a call or text at our usual number. This week we asked our listeners what is their Mount Rushmore of summer slashers? So kind of like your top four.

Heads on the on the mountain there. So I heard from uh at M McKenzie seventy three on Twitter. I also posted it over there. His Mount Rushmore was Friday the thirteenth, part two. Slepaway Camp Two, The Burning and Fear Street, nineteen seventy eight. I I can definitely see three of those being on there. I've never seen Slepaway Camp Two, so I can't speak to that one.

And then our friend M Fran 90 on Instagram said the Friday the thirteenth series is always a favorite. She even likes Jason on a boat. Uh also included I Know What You Do Last Summer, You Might Be The Killer, and Final Girls have been relatively recent and fun surprises. She also wanted to shout out Marshmallow, which isn't really a slasher, but it is a good addition to the summer camp genre.

So with that, w uh, one of those earlier mentioned films is actually the first film we'll be discussing tonight, and that is The Burning from nineteen eighty-one. Abusive former summer camp caretaker Cropsy, horribly burned from a prank gone wrong five years earlier, lurks around upstate New York summer camp stonewater with garden shears and bent on killing the teenagers responsible. For his disfigurement, and other Tino.

I'm very curious what you think about this, so let me head this one over to Billy. What are your thoughts about

and extremely questionable storytelling. It's sexually aggressive, misogynistic, and queer coded, but it's also perfect for eighties slasher fans. It's kind of garbage, just like one of its creators, the infamous Harvey Weinstein, His sleaziness just oozes off the screen and becomes more and more ironic as the film goes on as it attempts to portray sexual assault as pillow talk or just a slight misunderstanding.

Part of me thinks it's really fun and part of me was kind of offended, but I feel if you turn your brain off and water down your morals, you'll be treated to a perfect example of 1980s slasher cinema. What are your thoughts, Kanan?

Um, the kills are good. There's actually a decent plot. The villain deserved everything he had coming towards him. Uh, I thought it got a little bit slow towards the end, but overall it was a wonderful summertime experience. Seven point five out of ten for me. Lonely, what do you hear? And I'm sure there's no

So when I saw Harvey Weinstein in the cr like the credits, I didn't know like how obvious of his influence or his posse's influence was going to be on this film. And unfortunately, it is a very, very strong influence. There's really problematic stereotypes about gender and sex in this that age really, really terrible. And it's so bad that I had these points where I'm like, is this supposed to be satirical or

are they being serious? Like I just couldn't tell. It's so misogynistic and it can't even be excused for the time. Not that misogyny should ever be excused, but you know what I mean. Like there are certain expectations in these films and I just don't think this goes way, way beyond any form of, you know, comedy or excuse in my opinion. But beyond that, this film is just not creative at all. It doesn't break the mold of the slasher. It doesn't give us anything that we haven't seen before.

The plot is really loose and rambly. It was boring as hell. I was so, so bored. So bored. It was so long. I will say that there are positives, you know, because Mike has conditioned me after many Epic Optimus segments at this point. The practical effects are good, and I'm sure we'll get there, but those are my opening thoughts. I hated this film. And Mike, you didn't go yet, right? You didn't tell us your opening thoughts.

I do if you can take out which I know is hard, if you like Billy said, if you turn your moral compass off and watch it as a horror movie, just the slasher horror movie elements and the summer camp elements, I really do think it is one of the best like atmosphere summer camp slashes there is and I do think

Because Tom Sabini is in charge, the practical effects are amazing. Uh, there's a couple of really good scenes of that. So I actually really do like I liked it better the second time, but I was also more offended by it the second time, if that makes any more any sense. There's a scene Some point later where um the guy gets turned down by the girl, he gets so mad And I just never in my life can I imagine being angry with a woman'cause she won't hook up with me. Like that doesn't make sense.

Like anytime I've ever been rejected in my life, I get very sad, not mad. And so I don't know. I didn't get it. It was like, what the fuck is happening here? So all that stuff was just very Awful. But at the same time, I still think if you're talking about a summer slasher, if you want the vibes of a summer camp and you want that slasher, I think this is as good as any for that alone. Also, pretty amazing cat.

You got Jason Alexander, of course, future George Costanza, Fisher Stevens, who I was stunned to find out was not Indian. That's a joke for you people who know the 1986 movie Short Circuit, which is another problematic uh portrayal. Holly Hunter is in it.

Uh and I don't know if anyone knows this, but one of the Citizens on Patrol from Police Academy 4, Citizens on Patrol, is the guy that played Alfred. And I was like, why do I know this guy? And I was very excited when I saw that. So it's quite an 80s cast for sure, so I'll give that a shout out. Um but yeah, what do you guys think?

I don't like this movie and I'm not giving you a pass for it. So Mike, why don't you walk us through what the heck this plot is supposed to be? Because somehow this is linked to the Crop C legend, but I don't I don't know. I don't know. So tell us how we how we got to summer camp and why we're here.

I can't remember is it a head of some sort or pumpkin? I don't remember it was skeleton. But anyway, they supposed to scare him. And it's very funny cause somehow, even though it's on the table next to him, he manages to somehow knock it onto his own bed, which sets it ablaze, hence the burning.

And somehow he does not die. He just is greatly deformed and comes back five years later to the summer camp as all these killers do to take out Not just the people responsible, but basically anyone who gets in his way, using garden shears as his weapon, which I gotta say, that is a top tier.

slasher weapon. There's some really great scenes with the garden shears and some pretty phenomenal shots that are famous from the movie of that. So that's the plot. As much as there is one, of course there's kids again. They're well, quote unquote kids. uh as well as counselors. I'm not sure the ages of all these people what they're supposed to be, but um there's a lot of trying to hook up and really inappropriate things that we've referenced several times. So

Let me kick it back to you ability. What are some things uh you like about some of your things you think are worth talking about?

Appealing. And I would give a shout out to a hopefully nicer Harvey, Harvey Harrison, the cinematographer. Um, for attempting to bring some art to the sleas. He would later go on to work on Goldeneye, The Mummy, and the Excellent Reign of Fire. Um but th and and you know, I kind of felt a little bit bored like lonely did for a while. Um we don't really get

a lot of kills until pretty far into the film where there's a some somewhat of a massacre on a raft in the water. And I get kind of confused. Uh-oh. I'll keep going. Hopefully she's recording. Um I get kind of confused with the idea of them being at this camp because they all the ones that we're focusing on seem to be w either late teens or early twenties and They're maybe hanging out with five or six. So I don't really know what's going on with that. At some point they l they lose their canoes.

And they're not really worried about it. Like the guy in charge is like we gotta we gotta find these canoes and then they cut to him just like throwing rocks in the water, being like, talking to a girl, like, Hey, how's it going? But um Yeah, uh that's about it. What did what what are your uh enjoyment factors for this, Kanan?

Cropsi's first injury where he gets essentially third degree burns. I thought they actually did that pretty accurately, which is you can be in the hospital for anywhere between like a month to several months, depending on how much of your total body is covered in that. So the fact wants to kill those kids. Makes sense. He still deserved it, but that's beside the point. Um uh The general accuracy of the kills.

Great, like when the uh shears end up going through the guy's chest. I mean, that would have just caused an instant car cardiac tamponade. So even before something else would happen to him, his own blood would just be pushing down. Just like choking him out while his lungs were still trying to breathe. Gruesome. So I liked it for that.

you know, weight to it anyway. It's just about some strange figure in the woods and usually in New York. That's about it. It's just a strange figure in the woods that kills people. There's a really bad pseudo documentary about it made in 2009. Mike, am I missing any critical parts to Propsy. I know it was based on a real person, but

But so I don't even know if Cropsy was like a recognizable name to market the film for. I guess they don't really lean into it too much. It's kind of like an afterthought. So it's like why did you include it anyway? But am I missing anything there? Billy or Kanan, do you have any thoughts on Cropsy? Because I don't think there's any strong connections.

So that's that's what's behind the writing in here. And uh on another note, at one hour and sixteen minutes in, we get a sound from the bird from How do you how do I how do we pronounce that movie, Kanan?

Um, true art reflects humanity and as much as I hate to say it, this is some true art that even if it's gross And Siemens.

At times we can feel like the only survivor wandering a wasteland of sadness and despair, while vicious flesh eaters, voracious monsters, and toxic environments lurk around each and every corner. This segment will focus on the eternal struggle between good and evil that is at the heart of all horror. No matter if it's a mass killer, a vengeful ghost,

savage zombie, a deceptive demon, devilish cults, or even the human mind. Our resilience is tested as each death becomes its own little apocalypse. So let us settle down, suit up, and discuss what type of dragon we will be fighting today.

The film opens with the introduction of Detective Joe Kirby presented in the talking head documentary style before jumping to a concerned friend of the Sheridan family who called the police requesting a wellness check. We then get body cam footage of the murdered family being found in their home on july ninth, twenty ten. The husband, wife, and daughter are discovered sitting at their dining table tied to their chairs.

hands placed together as if praying, and their pale, cloudy, dead eyes raised toward into the ceiling where a triangle has been painted in blood, their blood. Their feet placed in buckets marked with three measured lines going, going gone. Their femoral arteries were then cut and they slowly exanguinated. So longly did you think this was a successful and effective opening?

the it kind of reminded me a lot of one of my favorite shows, Hannibal, just the way the scene was kind of set up and like the attention to detail on the practical effects was really impressive. The whole set for the scene was really, really impressive. Just like the amount of effort it would have taken to like set this up and have the sh even just for the one shot where the cops walk in was kind of crazy. The commitment to all of this is like really crazy. So I thought it was really successful.

She had been dismembered and her uterus was removed. The detectives find out she was a prostitute and by investigating into the hotel she had been to, they get their first lead a name Albert Shiny. Then on the night of june third, nineteen ninety four, an elderly man was bludgeoned with his own oxygen tank and stabbed thirty times with a box cutter. One of his eyes was also removed.

And then on october fifth, nineteen ninety five, a twelve year old boy was abducted walking home from school. Three months later his body is found in a shallow creek. He had multiple lacerations to his abdomen and his liver was reduced. The police also got their second lead, the imprint of another name, Caliban. Then the police received a message.

Thanks for not catching me. Learned a lot. Ten transits remain. Isn't it insane? I'll be back. Signed mister Shiny. After fifteen years of no killing, he was back. And so we just touched upon this a little bit lonely, but what do you think about the images of the crime scene? Um I found them to be pretty creepy.

And not quite as extreme as the Poughkeepsie tapes or Megan is missing, but still eerie and uncanny. I think you you talked about that, like you could see the bit of the non-realness, but I think that adds to the uncanny nature of it.

and unnerving. There's something very gritty about the way that, especially when they're looking at the crime scene and the crime scene photos, the way that these look. It just feels gross. Like it definitely feels, and maybe that's kind of like the voyeuristic kind of exploitative nature of some of this.

It feels like we're not supposed to be looking at this, even though it's framed as like this documentary that we're supposed to be watching. It almost feels like they're telling us too much or we're seeing too much. It's very unsettling. And I think that sets the scene for later on in the film when we finally start to see Mr. Shiny in action. You've kind of created this like really uncomfortable dynamic with yourself, like of just looking at these photos.

pictures he took of them. So anyways. Back to the film. On November 8th, 2010, a man and women were attacked at their home, and the man is left alive, although his face is burned severely with a torch. And the woman is murdered and has her head removed. And then we have my favorite kill of the movie, which I would like you to describe it, lonely. It's the uh one in the old aquatic sense.

and throws him in a pool and the pool is surrounded by like barbed wire and like spears and shit so he can't get out um and he can't scream'cause he has no tongue. And the pool is filled with leeches who then feed off of him for several days until he ends up Succumbing to his injuries of these leeches. And you find out that Mr. Shiny has been like taking care of these leeches for like days and days and days and days.

um weeks even to kind of like house all these leeches to eventually kill somebody. Um, canon please fact check if that is actually how somebody can die.'Cause I'm not convinced, but it was still really fucking creepy for the film. Yeah.

And lonely, this is the first time we see Mr. Shiny and his mask. How did this particular scene work for you? And then, you know, describe what did Mr. Shiny do in this bedroom?

Um we are watching it from like a webcam video. So we see like this glitchy something's happening. He's talking to somebody, something glitchy happens and we lose some footage. Um I don't love the math. Though I'm also not like masks don't do anything for me. It's not I'm more I think people are scarier than the masks. It's it's right kind of the mystery doesn't do anything for me. I found this mask. It just looks really thick. Like, I don't know what that is. It looks like a giant walnut.

Mr. Shiny as as a person is creepy as fuck. I think he in himself is very, very creepy. This is not the scariest scene of him, in my opinion. And I'm gonna mention it now because I don't know if we get to it later. But when he goes into the donut shop or the bakery to get that other guy, his lungs or or something. And you see him kind of creeping around outside the window.

Because you're watching it from the security camera. That fucked me up so bad. I had to pause the movie. I really, really did. Like that. I don't know what it was about the way he was moving. Or maybe it's because you know what he's gonna do to this guy.

The detectives were standing right next to him in the video. And what did you think of the portrayal of their empathy and guilt towards this? I th that for me is like the weakest. part of like the acting, like I felt was kind of just glossed over. And that's really my only complaint about the film is that was kind of like a quick, you know, like did did you f did you feel that at all?

It just like the the bit kinda got old by the end, especially when we get to the end and she's talking about the things that people have seen and she's obviously a non believer and it's just kind of like blih, like, Okay, give me more, give me more. Like there's nothing really happening here.

And so at this point, lonely, I'm assuming you realize this movie was going to go into some cosmic horror territory. And we all know you're not a fan of that, but how did its use in this type of narrative work?

at least in in media, serial killers have like some reason why they're doing all of this and that it needs to be chalked up to something. So I actually felt that the storyline with this was almost like a very dark

distant cousin of long legs because we're also it it reminded me of the total shift in long legs as well. Like when you get three quarters of the way through the movie and you're like, Oh my God, Satan and then you got three quarters of this movie and you're like, Oh my God, a Lovecrafty and tentacle monster. How could I guess

Back to the killing uh on March twenty-eighth, twenty eleven. This is the donut shop man is stabbed and has his heart removed. And there's a guy who sees Mr. Shiny. and talks to the police about it. And then on April 2nd, 2011, this guy is found blood eagle style at a swing set. And correct me if I'm wrong, lonely I believe the blood eagles when they basically cut your back open, crack your ribs back, and pull your lungs out.

And hang them out like a like wings, uh, like a blood eagle. And allegedly they do this when you're still alive.

So on May 12th, 2011, a baby is abducted. And the film culminates on the next day when the police search for Mr. Shiny in the national park. And we see the alignment of Mercury, Jupiter, and Saturn as the shit goes down. and a handful of people die. And we get some more visual effects in the sky here. And Lonely, what did you think of these effects towards the end of the film? A little bit better than um than we've got at the beginning or how do you feel?

And then I heard something outside my window. Long story short, it was a fox. I'm from the city. I don't know what the fuck a fox sounds like. But I thought my death was imminent. So I don't think I watched the credits. I think I turned that shit off. So what happens?

basically for a potential potential cinematic universe. And so I think he's maybe hoping he's gonna be able to do another one and kind of make a a potential fan franchise, which I would be down for, but what about you?

And I think its gimmick did well for this one film, but I'd be curious on how they would replicate it. Like very much reminds me of when they did like the unfriended franchise. Like how many times can we watch the the point and click like webcam stuff? So I mean I don't know, I think this scared the shit out of me, so I would watch a second one even just to see what would happen, but I'm not sure how they would make the second one as successful as this one.

before us Lizzie who like passes out and has a seizure and they talk about other people having things go on and I don't know did you get any sense of anything weird with that or was that just you know par for the course in cosmic horror?

Every death in the film is not only horrific, but essentially a log added to the fire, building the pyre higher and higher, illuminating the doorway that is hidden in the darkness. Unlike your typical slasher film or serial killer, mister Shiny isn't representing some base carnality of a racious and unpredictable trope of humanity. He's almost like a dark wizard, studying and traveling for years, perfecting his craft.

Killing when the time is right, focusing and quietly obsessing over the coronation, Caliban and Asragore. He is a disciple, a mix of madness and science with a drive to the The heroes of this story are the two detectives armed with badges, guns, and their wits, doing their best to fight an evil they don't quite comprehend, doing their best to fight the dragon. Lonely. Any final thoughts before we move on to ratings?

Um, I think this was really fucking scary and unexpected. And I think it's worth watching. If you can stomach the level of realistic gore that we're talking about, I don't know if I'd call it realistic, but you're gonna see some dead people. I think people should watch this 100%. Especially because I think it got overshadowed in 2024 when it was released. Definitely go back and watch this.

I can't wait to hear Kanan's takes on these kills because to me, a lay person, these are not anatomically correct in any way, shape, or form. And I just don't think like I think we're just supposed to praise it because artistically It was impressive with all the one it's like I don't know if it's done in one shot or whatever they're doing with the dolly or whatever the hell, which is great and awesome and like bravo to you. But this is not an entertaining film. I'm sorry. It isn't. But

I think the rest of the room, per ush, likes this film. So, Billy, you could take it from here.

Uh of course we get some extremely gory kills and they're so ridiculous at times they come across as satire and I kinda have a feeling that's what was really going on with this film. Um just kind of making fun of the whole genre in a tongue-in-cheek way. By the time we get to a certain log splitter scene, it's self indulgence starts to rare wear really thin for me.

And I can respect it as cinema verite slasher and I appreciate the attempt at changing the perspective and expectations and tarot old tropes associated with slashers in general. But To me, it's kind of like um a skin rink thing where I enjoyed watching it and was happy to participate in it, but it's not something that I'm gonna keep returning to. What about you, Mike?

And I'll explain why in a second. However, the last 15 minutes make me so fucking mad it twice so much this. Because everything that I love about the first three quarters, they completely threw out the fucking window in the last fifteen minutes and it angers me to no end'cause it's could have been so good. And then they totally change everything.'Cause what makes this movie for me, I just think the conceit is broken.

What's the most interesting part of most slashers? The killer. That's who we want to spend time with. We don't remember the names, at least I don't, of all the people who get killed in every Friday thirteenth movie, with the exception of maybe the final. But the killers we all know. So the idea of spending the whole movie with the killer, even when that killer is literally just walking in the woods, and I get that. I understand why people don't like that.

But I think it's so beautiful in the woods and they do such a good job of the sound mixing, I get it. And I know I sound like such a hypocrite as much as I yell about skinned and rink and how boring it is. But this for whatever reason, maybe it's a setting, whatever, it works.

So I love that. I love the kills. They're so over the top, and I'm certain they're not anatomically correct. But they're ridiculous and fun and crazy. And then at the end, when you want to see what happens when he finally gets the necklace back. The last fifteen minutes you're not with him anymore. Uh the whole point of the movie is that you're with the killer and then all of a sudden you're not. It is completely infuriating. So I'm of two very strong minds about this, obviously.

I still think I would re watch the first three quarters of this movie many times, but I will never watch the last fifteen minutes again if I

For me. Uh, I'm someone, just like as I mentioned in previous podcasts, that if you can get my uh suspension of disbelief or pull me into the story, then I can let quite a bit go. And that's what happened. I just kept following the guy as he was going with it. And hated skinamarink, but this one I actually really really In terms of the kills, since lonely uh was wondering about my opinion, one interesting thing I noted, and I think it relates to uh

Uh when Johnny fell off the tower that eventually killed him in the first place, I'm gonna surmise that he had a spinal. out. The reason why is because almost every single one of the kills that he does has something that involves the spine where he's either striking someone. Head, ripping out someone's spine, bending someone over. Uh, I I just thought that was a nice touch that the way that they took him out is how he.

In terms of accuracy, uh I can't comment on the spine bend that one, I don't think. completed before in uh human existence. That's something that like Michael Myers would do. But uh in terms of the saw kill, the first one for the dopey guy, uh, that's pretty accurate. You actually Your cervical spine right behind your mouth. That's from C1 to C7. So if you're taking a saw and pushing it through someone's mouth, you will actually transfer.

spine and that one I thought was fairly accurate. Um uh oh something that's very fascinating the ranger who he injures he pulls him at what looks like the lower So clearly he won't be able to move. Um, I thought they could have actually moved that that. spine attack up a little higher because it looks like he can't move his arms. He still would have been able to move his arms from where that injury was, but I'm gonna let that go. What's most interesting is he was still alive and breathing.

If you guys have an injury to your spine, you should be okay, correct? If you have an injury between your C3 to C5 section, you will die. That is the parts of the nerves that control your And so if anyone ever has an injury to their spine at that level, they can no longer breathe without being on a ventilator. And so that was believable for how long. That's my anatomical synopsis. What do you think, Lenny?

people near it, uh kids, we don't see them because we're with killer, although he's not there yet. And there's a necklace or something hanging from there. The kids take the necklace. Well removing that necklace apparently causes Johnny to be reborn. I thought that scene was super cool. And again, I'm glad we stayed with it. And then Johnny goes on this murderous rampage basically to get and he's trying to find it. That is basically it. I admit there ain't much to it.

But again, like I said, it's not a little bit more than a You're seeing it from a different point of view. It was enough for me. 'Cause it answered a lot of questions like how does the killer get from one place to another? Wow, it takes him a long time.

How does he find the people? Like I like when he's walking through the woods and he's going one direction, then he hears someone talking another direction and that gets him to go that way. I know that seems obvious, but you don't ever see that. So so I enjoyed that. Uh did I do a good job of the plot there? Am I missing anything major, Billy?

There's a axe throw kill, a rock smash head kill, the log splitter kill that goes on a little bit too long for me. Uh, and then there's another uh Kill that I call the fix fifty axe chops kill because our boy just goes to town with this axe on somebody. Um so in regards to the ending, we get kind of this ending where our final girl is picked up in a truck by another female who I believe she was a She was a final girl in one of the Friday the thirteenth films.

And like I don't know if like the the the whole ideal of of this is again to do a satire of slasher films. Uh it's also kind of hinting at survivors commiserating and It's you know, like I said, breaking those rules.

So I'm curious, lonely though, um, I know you hate this or whatever, but do you at least give it credit for attempting to to do something a little bit different with the the slasher? Genre or are you just like, no way?

I I mean, sure. Is it creative? Yes. And again, like there's artistic prowess to the way it's shot. You know, it is a beautiful film on its face. but this level of ridiculous just doesn't sit well with me. And that I mean, people who n read my reviews know this. I can't suspend belief for very long.

It's not some especially in something like a slasher that's rooted in reality. You know, we're supposed to believe, or maybe we're not supposed to believe, I don't know anymore, that this is a entity killing people with with a an axe or whatever. So at to a point I expect that to have some realism. And I think this takes the realism out so far. that even though it does some things well artistically, structurally, this film is just not very palatable for me.

Again, you know, some people really liked this. Some people said this was the best film of the year. Some people felt this reinvigorated the entire slasher genre. And sure, maybe it did those things, but There I don't think there's anything here that stands so starkly against what already exists. You know, we get a point I think the difference is that you get the point of view of the killer for the majority of the film. We get point of view from the killer in most major slashers.

So I don't know. I it's like sure, you know, but I don't know, where do we start giving out participation trophies, you know what I mean?

But once I chose this movie there was only one person who needed to be here with me, so joining me tonight once again is our fearless leader and fellow recovering Catholic Lonely. Hello, Lonely, how are you?

The very brief but somehow apt IMDB synopsis is as follows.

Evil Invades a Children's Spiritual Retreat. Alright. Opening thoughts. Uh before we try to figure out the optimistic parts, we're gonna have to probably parse through some stuff here. Lonely, I'm gonna toss it to you first because I have no doubt you have some thoughts.

Just weird. Like a lot of the lines are just really fucking weird. But I will say whoever wrote it really knew their shit about the Bible. I think what it's trying to do is to unpack somebody's religious trauma, probably whoever wrote it.

um that are all in this part of the covenant. It's very, very strict. And they go to this summer camp, they send their kids to the summer camp. And it is a very, very strict religious summer camp. And while there our main character who's a teen boy um has Crisis of faith, I guess would be a way to put it. He engages in some sins of the flesh, uh with a girl that he likes there and

There might be some effects to that and that's one of the things we'll talk about. Uh there is maybe a demon involved, but that also could be metaphorical. Um so yeah, it's interesting. Um I'll we'll talk about whether it deserves the rating here in a minute, so I'll I'll share some things. But biggest it was not as bad as I was expecting.

The things I had issues with particularly well so let's talk about you and I had texted before this about whether this is supposed to represent Catholics or some non-denominational. So I think they're supposed to be Catholic. I mean they mentioned purgatory. Purgatory is very much a Catholic thing. Not that it's not other things, but it's known for Catholic. The priest is very clearly supposed to be some sort of Catholic.

Um they cross themselves, a lot of lot of merry stuff. But the issue I had with it And again I I grew up in a suburban Not super conservative Catholic part, but I do have family members that are a little more conservative Catholic. I've never found Catholics to be particularly evangelical. Like it's kind of a

Didn't sit right with me. It didn't seem like it was it was like they were like you said, someone has religious trauma and maybe it involved both Catholics and some non denomination and they kinda mishmashed it together, the worst parts of all Christianity and put it into the scam. So that's kinda where I landed. Does that make sense to you?

What can we still say we us recovering Catholics, we live forever in like this state of guilt. Catholicism is a very guilt carrying religion. We we blame ourselves for everything and that's why purgatory kind of came to its its existence. But the fact that there's so much pushing on converting, like that's a big thing Catholics do not do. We do not convert people. We sort of accept our dying religion and go back in our catacombs and call it a day.

And I think it's also very rare to see Catholicism to such an extreme when it comes to being this conservative. And I think I was like reflecting a lot on my experience growing up Catholic and I think I've just come to the conclusion that my family is actually more closely related to folk cath Catholicism or folk traditional Catholicism because I didn't relate to a lot of the stuff.

that at least the these kids were going through. So I think there's a a little bit of a m misstep there. I mean, it doesn't call itself a Catholic film, so maybe that's it. But I think a a bigger problem I have than that is the fact that I was really uncomfortable with sort of the softcore porn that was happening because these are supposed to be teenagers.

And it was very pornographic. And it got to the point where I didn't know if we were watching like some anti-sex PSA. The sex scene in this felt very, very uncomfortable for me. I don't know about you if you had any thought similar thoughts on that.

Um all right, well let's get into some of our'cause I think we'll cover some other stuff when we talk about our attempt to find something optimistic. We will also find some things that are not optimistic.

First we also want to make sure that this movie fit our theme is advertised, Summer Ween this week. Uh absolutely. I think we can agree it is definitely a summer camp horror movie. It's the worst summer camp of all time in my opinion, but it is in fact a summer camp. So do you agree that this definitely fit our theme?

firearms. I don't remember we did not shoot guns or anything, but I remember there was something about that. Um, and basketball. But then they would all get us in the church and show us the absolutely worst cheesy religious videos ever. Um, and that was the worst part of it. But yeah, I do remember doing that. That's as close as I got. How about you?

Um, I thought overall it was pretty well made and we can talk about the acting in a second. That wasn't the problem. Uh I did hate the ending. Like up to the ending I would have overall probably rated this higher, but the ending is a mess. And I was a little bit concerned at the end that I wasn't supposed to hate all these religious people, like and the priest in particular,'cause I feel like I should not like the way he was treating these kids, but

What did you think? The ending is very we won't go into all the specifics, but it was definitely a pro a bit problematic for me.

Th I think the way that we see the main character, and this is a positive, the main the acting really isn't that terrible, especially with the script that they're given. The way you see the main character kind of grapple with his faith and sort of the revelation he comes to at the end of the film that he essentially doesn't want to be part of the faith and he doesn't want anything to do with God, at least at this point in his life, I found to be very poignant.

But I think the family moves on a little too unrealistically. Like they're a super staunch religious family and your son's like, yeah, I don't I don't want to believe in God anymore, and then we just like get a happy song and cut to credit. I just don't think it makes a lot of sense. But I also kind of look at it as one of those unresolved things that happens when you kind of come to terms with your faith. I related to that a lot because I think this was also the age when I

It kind of like made my step away from the church. Around confirmation was when I was like, Yep, I'm done. So I mean it doesn't the ending also doesn't make sense in terms of the film, like how we got here, but I don't think the main character is

But not in the way I f I thought he should have been saying it was dangerous. Like he brought this demon in'cause he committed sin and he just needs to get away from it completely. I don't know. I don't know what it was trying to say, it was a mess, so We'll go ahead and say the story, especially the ending, is probably not what we're gonna be optimistic about.

However, you mentioned something that I will argue is a reason to be optimistic, and that is both the cast. I mean, they got some I checked out, it's like a three million dollar budget for this movie. And they got some real uh actors here. Jesse Eisenberg was. Not a huge star at the time and he's barely in this movie, but he is in it. Andrew McCarthy, of course, passed his prime, though looks great in the movie. He's not

Um Dana Delaney who was a big star around the same time, Dandrew McCarthy and Bruce Davidson is a you know a good character actor. So I mean we got some real cast members here and I feel like some of the other actors were really good. I noted the guy that plays uh Christian who's kind of like the camp counselor. I thought he was excellent at being a real piece of shit. He was fantastic. Um the main character has a friend named Jack who's very sarcastic.

uh one time he s at one point he says to Christian, how's the Inquisition treating you, Christian? Which I thought was very funny. Um and I thought Bruce Davison was great. Like he was awful. Which is what he was supposed to be. I wrote down some of my favorite Bruce Davison quotes here. Um the boy is talking to this girl that he likes, and they're literally just talking outside of a tent. Bruce Davison comes up and says, Quote, sister, you're behaving like a tran.

And to which he says what? He goes, A whore. You're acting like a whore. I was like, Okay, this is wonderful, this guy. And then later, um When uh our main character is really going through it and is having issues, he thinks he's seen a demon or whatever, and then the priest says, I've seen this before and the kid's like, Oh, really? What happened to him? He goes, Well, he's in a mental institution. He tried to take his own life and the life of his young sister. It's like

Great counseling, Father. Thank you so much. Then on top of it you add how obsessed this motherfucker is with how often you jerk off. Like every question, every conversation he has it starts with how often do you masturbate? I was like, Who I mean, I understand that's part of the Catholic thing, but I assure you that never came up in my covering it so

There was always like it would look really dark and there'd be one part of the screen that was a little bit lighter and it's because you knew that animation was going to move at some point. That's what it reminded me of. That's a really obscure old old person reference, but there Um, score. You know, usually I'm a big music guy. I thought the score sucked in this movie.

So really bad score, really bad needle jobs. You have the Christian music. Of course there was Ave Maria. Of course there had to be. So it's a negative on that. Um cinematography. Yeah. What do you think?

uh atheists who live in the woods and I'm don't know what that means, but uh they were terrible. But other than them, that was pretty good. Uh cinematography pretty solid. Um so yeah, I mean This is kinda one of those cinematic oddities where it's just a really strange movie and Like I said, it made me feel icky several times and not always in a good way.

But it's something. Like I think if you're into religious horror or maybe you had some of the experiences lonely and I've had, it might might be worth your time. I mean it's not super short, I will say that it's like an hour f it's like a hundred minutes, so

So we have if I hear any funky town ringtones from your hellphones, I will ring your necks. That's from Christian when they get to camp. He takes someone's, I think were they jelly beads or gummy bears? I can't remember, but jelly. Jelly beans. He takes candy from one of the the kids and the he's like, Why do you have these? And he says, I get hungry sometimes. And Christian says, Well, Jesus got hungry in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights. I can't even finish. And then um

Out here in the cloak of darkness with a young man, that's a good one. Jesus is your savior, not your homeboy. And then while someone's actively becoming possessed, he says, You should be grateful you are persecuted for your brothers and sisters. I was like, oh my God. Oh, last point. I have to I have to ask. So they feature square dancing in this. And I was taught how to square dance in Catholic school. Did you ever experience this?

But I think the other two were trying to do something creative. And I just I c I couldn't. I I I attempted the Fear Street trilogy several times and couldn't do it. And I've still got to watch that Last Strangers. trilogy just because I'm a glutton for punishment. But um yeah. What do you think, Mike?

And if you consider Jaws a slasher, Jaws four is really bad, though I admit I loved it as a child, but I I can understand it. It it's the whole thing was Jawsford. This time it's personal. No, it's not. It's a shark. It's not personal. Um and the other one I thought of was I was being I remember being pretty underwhelmed by Madman 1981. I know some people like that one too, but I thought that was pretty uh cookie cut.

of the characters and that's just never explained. Can't recommend that. Go see the first one, third one, and experiment with Friday the 13th if you want, but I recommend avoiding the.

And has no there's like no redeeming arc for that. And it's kind of really challenging for me as somebody with a public health background to see like this film was like made in response to a public health crisis of like juvenile delinquency in Britain at the time.

And for it to not have any redemption arc or any like cognitive awareness of why that was happening was really challenging for me. So I'm not a fan of Eden Lake. I also think that uh violence against children has no redemption in this. There's just no It just doesn't give me anything for the payoff, so not an Eden Lake fan for me. But before I move on to best.

Billy, I have also not watched the entire Fear Street trilogy. I watched like twenty minutes of the first one and thought it was really hokey. And I don't tell people that because it's very beloved by many people, but I've never seen the rest of it.

And with that I believe it's time for some Suzy's deep cuts.

This movie isn't often considered horror. It's often considered neo noir thriller. But this movie is deeply insidious and very, very scary. It does happen in the summertime. There's a boat, there's an island, there's drama, there's Robert Mitchum. I think it's good. I think it's great. There's at least w at least two people die. So Wiki counted as a slasher. So that's my my take. Not that anybody on this friggin' episode cares. So proceed, Billy. On with deep cuts.

Starting off with my only deep cut with just under 1,000 reviews and currently sitting at a 5.1 on IMDb is Hunt Her Kill Her from 2022. A janitor in a furniture factory finds herself in a fight for her life when she becomes the target of sinister masked intruders. This is an extremely low budget cat and mouse thriller that gets brutal and bloody. And if you can look past its low budget flaws,

I think you'll have a good time. One of the few films I've seen where the killer's mask is portrayed as a hindrance that cuts down on their peripheral vision, allowing our heroine to hide right beside them. I give it a seven point five out of ten. Moving on to Surface Wounds and a newer one from an old master with just over 5,000 reviews and currently sitting at a 5.2 on IMDB is Dario Argento's Dark Glasses from 2022.

Diane, a young woman who lost her sight, finds a guide in a Chinese boy named Chin. Together they will track down a dangerous killer through the darkness of Italy. It's a slightly watered down and subdued entry from Argento, but he's like eighty years old, so cut him some slack. I give it a six out of ten. And going back to nineteen eighty-two for a movie my mom rented from Errol's Video. I don't know if any listeners out there remember Errol's Video.

With just over five thousand reviews currently sitting at a five point seven on IMDB is visiting hours. A deranged, misogynistic killer assaults a journalist. When he discovers that she survived the attack, he follows her to the hospital to finish her off This was one of my introductions to the intense acting presence of Michael Ironside, and he scared the hell out of me as a six-year-old. It also stars William Shatner. Give it a 6.5 out of 10.

Next up is a wacky one with around 6,500 reviews, currently sitting off at a 5.2 on IMDB. And it's Blood Rage from 1987, also known as Nightmare at Shadow Woods. A boy kills a man and accuses his brother of paying. And the innocent brother ends up institutionalized while his psychotic twin goes free. Ten years later, the innocent twin escapes, which triggers his brother to kill again. This film knows its trash and relishes in its cheesiness, gore, and ridiculous plot.

And the acting that takes place needs to be seen to believed. It's so bad it's good. out of 10 for me. And finally, with almost 8,000 reviews currently sitting at a 6.0 on IMDb, we have just before dawn from 1981. Five young people venture into the backwoods of Oregon to claim a property and find themselves being stalked by a hulking, machete wielding psychopath. This one is light on gore, but it looks great, moves along at a good pace.

has a few surprises and a awesome final girl with an excellent finishing move. If you're a fan of fisting, give this one a go. I give it a seven out of ten.

I I don't know what it is. I think I get the same feeling that some people get like when you're claustrophobic in small spaces. It almost feels like the dark is like pressing down on me. It has been a fear of mine since I was a little little kid. And I've never been able to break it. And I won't let them break it out of me in therapy. I think it's a valuable fear to have. So that's just me. Billy, what about you?

It's because I don't know where they are at any given time. That's what's scary about them and not knowing what's in the dark obviously aligns perfectly. The thing about this question that reminded me of this great story that the great late Rob Reiner told on Bravo had this uh countdown of the hundred scariest movie moments. And he talked about he was so scared of the dark and he was scared of Dracula. And his mom would make him go outside and take out the trail.

And so to not freak out when he did that, he would talk to Dracula as he was taken out the chest. So he'd like walk outside and be like, All right, Dracula, I know you're out here in the dark. I know you wanna suck my blood, but And so then I've noticed my daughter does that. She doesn't talk to Dracula. But if she's in if it's dark at night and she's in a room by herself, I hear her talking to herself. Like she's just trying to make sure the sounds and darkness. Remind me of that story.

What about you, Canon?

happen. And so when I see something actively coming in front of me, that terrifies me. I'd compare it to how death will come for us eventually. And I'm trying to ignore that. But as my bills and responsibilities come towards me, that scares me more

And before we get the angry phone calls. We're not actually fighting. I one of my pet peeves from season two was Susie and I would get texts all the time. Are you guys like fighting in real life? No, we're not fighting. This is it's all it's all part of the bit, guys. We're gonna be fine. And that, dear internet, is all the time we have for tonight. If you want to continue the conversation, here is where you can find us.