Episode 78: Hometown Horrors

The horror connection. me and Projectile Varmit, this show features a panel of hosts and rotating guest content experts, tackling the nitty-gritty complex horror topics with the hope of making the genre more approachable. for frequent flyers and newbies alike. The goal of this show is to highlight diverse voices and perspectives in horror. This is your reminder that there may be discourse on this show that will challenge the way you look at the genre.

So let's get ready to get ugly. Broadcasting from Connecticut, USA. I'm the ghost with the blog, Lonely, and I'm joined by the Nobodies crew, our panel of living dead talking heads. Broadcasting from North Carolina by way of Jersey USA, bringing the dad vibe to all things horror, I am Mike, aka That Horror T. Broadcasting from Virginia, USA, I am Billy D, the resident musician, handyman, and host of Halloween.

And broadcasting from Indiana, USA, your local horror physician and cent aficionado, canon, aka play Doctor Al. And I just want to say I'm happy to be here with my no buddies. Ooh, that one's a good one. That is a good one. And listeners, before you call in and complain,'cause you know we record so far in advance, do you see how good Kanan sounds? Look at that. We he we can hear him clearly. He's like a pilot in our brains. You're official now. You have like a lily toe

Mm-hmm. You've got as close as to a mic as we're gonna get, right? Wi without actual mics. So I have to say we're moving up in the world. Our audio is improving. We're here. It's a special, special night. This is our first special since the rebrand. Do you gents feel special? Do you feel you know like this is a Yes. I feel warm inside. Homely, warm inside, yes. Well, like I said, this is our first special edition episode since the remix.

This is an episode topic that has been brewing for quite some time. I was trying to figure out how we could get a bunch of people on the show at the same time and to circumvent that I just added three hosts to the show. No, I'm just kidding. I never had an excuse to get anybody on for this episode and here we are. And for an episode like this one, with so many people in the room, we have to set the atmosphere, feel like we're sitting around a campfire telling scary stories.

Because this week we are sitting down to share some folktales and urban legends from our hometowns and backgrounds. Welcome to the Hometown Horrors Special. Humanity has been telling us and sharing stories since the dawn of time. Before the use of the written language, humans have embraced oral storytelling and traditions back from the caveman days all the ways until civilization started actually making culture and coming together.

These stories were passed down through generations and often were used to teach a moral lesson or explain a critical part of a storyteller's culture. And let me tell you, from tonight we are gonna be picking up on quite a bit of union cultures. These oral traditions relied on memory, rhythm, and repetition so stories could be easily recalled and shared.

And many of the older stories passed down through oral traditions make up what we now refer to as historical folklore, something I used to enjoy teaching my middle school. Folklore embodies cultural identity, values, and traditions, its community of origin. Some examples of folklore across the globe include the Thunderbird in the United States, the Green Man in Britain, Baba Yaga and Russia. And of course La Lorona in Mexico.

Modern day oral traditions created a relatively new phenomenon known as the urban legend. According to Britannica, urban legends are modern-day fables or folk tales that are told or circulated as if they actually happened and often carry the fears, beliefs, or anxieties of a society. Urban legends usually describe relatively mundane situations that turn suspicious or sinister, which often makes the story feel plausible. Two common urban legends include the hook man and the hitchhiker goat.

The rise of the internet and social media has intro introduced even more spin-offs of traditional urban legends by way of chain email, chain text messages. I'm sure we've all got one of those creepypasses and viral posts. The internet has enabled the most rapid spread of urban legends in human history.

As you might have guessed, mo can most contemporary discourse on these topics uses the ideas of folklore, folktales, and urban legends basically interchangeably, which is what we will be doing with our movie pick. tonight. So before you're like, well, actually that's based on an urban legend, yes, we know. That's why we picked we picked them.

So whether your introduction to local legends was Bigfoot, Bloody Mary, or Slender Man, we all have a memory of one scary story you heard as a kid that kept you awake for weeks. And I want to know from the crew what was that story for you? And I'm gonna pass it to Kanan.

For me, uh, the way I learned about Urban Legends was from the film Urban Legends, uh, which I still think is hilarious to this day. But the personal uh legend we had around the part of southwestern like Indianapolis area where I grew up. was one based off of a haunted house. Now this haunted house was unique because it seemed like a massive conglomeration of multiple themes. So it was a haunted house.

Owned by one of the northern uh branch of the KKK members, Martinsville, Indiana, head of the North Dragon. And on the inside of this KKK owned haunted house was a little satanic like ritual area. Now I've never actually been to this house, but a whole bunch of kids in my high school always went and said all this creepy stuff, how they found a bowl of blood and all this. Um so pretty tame compared to others, but that was my exposure. Billy, I hope you have something more subtle.

So yeah, uh there's a park called Fort Hunt. in Alexandria, Virginia that contains remnants of old Fort Hunt that dates back to the end of the Spanish American War in nineteen nin or eighteen ninety eight, sorry. And in high school, I heard legends of a young man who took so much LSD that he lost his mind and just lived in the ruins.

And the remains were really fucking creepy. And especially in the areas that were like crumbling tunnels. And I remember as kids we would test each other to see how far back we could go. And, you know, you'd find of course beer bottles. maybe the occasional syringe back in there, but I never went too deep into it. It kind of freaked me out. And that's why I kind of mainly stayed away from LSD as well. How about you, Mike?

So I didn't have too many local urban legends. I mean we did have uh an old insane asylum in town and you can actually look up Woody Guthrie actually stayed there for a time, interestingly. But that wasn't scary. So for me as a child of the eighties, it was all about scary stories to tell in the dark. Like that's what introduced me, I think, to Urban Legends and those kind of stories. I've checked them out of the library dozens of times, all I think there's three volumes.

The story that stuck with me probably the best is the the killer in the backseat, you know, and the person flashes the light and let them know to this day I still will check my backseat and if anyone ever flashes the lights behind me, I get freaked out. So I can thank the story from Scary Stories and Tell in the Dark for that and as Kanon said also Urban Legend nineteen ninety eight. What about you, Lonely?

So I was definitely also a scary story to tell in the dark kid. And in my local area in Connecticut, we are big believers in the Melon Heads. So these are Basically, I think hills have eyes type type stuff. And they are cannibals, usually some form of uh, you know, hillbilly cannibals that are descendants of uh

a nineteen sixty asylum fire who resorted to cannibalisms. And basically if you drove your car down this very specific highway that connects Waterbury to New Haven, it's like pitch black dark and there's like no lines on the road. Very rural for Connecticut. and you shut your lights off, you were supposed to

just not be able to hear anything and then the melonheads would come out of the woods and jump on your car. I never did n any such thing because my mother was very, very strict. So I was nowhere after dark. But um one of the things that I remember scaring me the most was in high school And an ex-boyfriend told me the urban legend of the licked hand. Have you guys ever heard of this one? No, but I'm dying to hear about it. I'm so intrigued. Please go on.

So this really fucked me up. I think, and this was before I really threw myself into horror. And this was this was like groundbreaking shit for me. So the story follows this young girl who's home alone. She's watching TV. And of course, of course. A murderer has broken out of prison. Because why not? Why not?

Um and she's on the phone with her boyfriend and she's taking care of her dog and her boyfriend's like, ooh, what if somebody breaks into your house? Do you want me to come over and spend the night? And she's like, yeah, of course. So she goes to bed and her boyfriend never shows up because he's an asshole and she's really freaked out. She's like, Oh my God.

So she's like, I'm gonna I'm just gonna deal with my dog, it'll be fine. So she rolls over in bed, she reaches down, pets her dog, the dog licks her hand, she gets up to go to the bathroom, she goes back to bed. She wakes up the next morning and she goes back into the bathroom and turns all the lights on and her dog is hanging from the shower curtain, skinned, and there's blood everywhere. And on the wall, written in blood, it says, humans can lick too. Mm. like that. So, yep.

I've I've I've heard this one. That's a good one. I've got one.

It it's pretty fucked. Um I've got one that I've that I've heard and I don't know if it's like an urban legend or I remember my mom telling me this story that she'd heard on the radio. I mean uh have you guys heard of this? So It starts off in a grocery store parking lot, and a man sees a woman sitting in her car looking like really agitated and freaked out, and she's holding the back of her head.

And the guy comes over to the car to check on her and she says she's been shot. Have you heard this? No, but I'm scared already. I I have But this sounds great. Okay, so She's feeling this goop on the back of her head and she's afraid to move and move her hands. She feels like her brains are gonna fall out of her. And they call the paramedics and they get her out, and they finally found out what happened, and she had like a It was like Maybe the summer and she had a tube of like biscuit.

And you know, when you like you you peel the wrapper back and it pops. Apparently it popped and part of the dough flew on the hit her in the back of the head and when she reached up she felt this, you know, sticky kind of Moist goo and thought it was her brains coming out when it was just biscuit dough. That's awesome.

I think that speaks so much to Billy's credibility because I was so like, oh my God, he's gonna tell us some crazy slasher craziness. And yes, I've heard the biscuit story. Oh my god. Oh biscuit brains. This this was my first time. I really enjoyed it. Thank you, Billy. You're welcome. Yes. That seems like a great way to transition into the coroner's report. Thankfully that woman did not need a coroner. She just needed a frying pan for her biscuit.

Uh this is an interactive portion of our show where the audience can jump in to give their feedback and be featured in the episode even if they can't be with us on the mic in real time. To be featured in the coroner's report, you can comment on Instagram, you can give us a call or text at our usual number, which can be found in the show notes.

This week we asked our listeners share an urban legend from your hometown, more piece of folklore from your cultural background, and are there any films that feature these stories? And our good friend Hannah from Ho uh Horror Hour with the Hanas chimed in. Just recently I found out she is from New Jersey like me, and she, of course, told of her urban legends from the home state of New Jersey, which is the Jersey Devil.

But she says I'm not gonna lie, I have no interest in watching a Jersey Devil movie if one exists. So I'm from northern Jersey and to be honest we don't hear much about the Jersey Devil there. That's more of a southern Jersey pine barrens thing. I know there's an X Files episode about the Jersey Devil or at least says to be about the Jersey Devil. I think it turns out to be about something else. But I'm not familiar with any movies. Are any of you guys familiar with any Jersey Devil movies?

I think there's one with uh the actor Steven Mower or whatever the guy who was Bill Compton in uh Trueblood. And I believe it's it's It's kinda okay. It's like one of those things where he's with his family in the forest and he's like seeing things and you're not sure if it's real or not, but it does feature a creature and I believe it's the Jersey Devil.

All right, well, sounds like it's right to be made for a movie, but Hannah will not be interested in seeing it. Thank you, Hannah, so much for chiming in. And everyone, we hope to hear from you at the next Corner's Report.

Let's move on to the films, guys. So I'm excited to share my little piece of culture with everybody. 1973, we have the Yugoslavian film Leptitica, which means butterfly, and in the modern variation, they call it the she butterfly. A young man wants to marry the beautiful daughter of a landowner who refuses to allow the marriage. To prove his worth, the young man becomes a miller in a vampire infested local mill. Before I go any further, do you guys have any questions at all about this film?

No, I definitely understood everything perfectly. I can't wait to tell you everything I already know. Fluid. I have I have one question. Was the cowbell in her vagina? Was the cowbell in her vagina? Can you clear? Yeah. What? S so y y you you see the woman on the hill and you hear the cowbell.

And you assume it's with the sheep, but then the sheep stay in the far distance and as she gets closer to you the cowbell still s keeps ringing. And there are several scenes where she's in the frame and the sheep are And as she moves, the cowbell rings. That was like one of my two notes was is the cowbell supposed to be in her vagina? Every time I think I've been observant in a movie and I've really figured a movie out, Billy comes out with a is the cowbell in her vagina.

I don't know. Seriously it's like I'm like scrolling through my notes rapidly right now. I'm like, cowbell? What the fu cowbell? It it feels like it feels like a family guy skit. Like he asked me, oh, and her vagina was in the sink. And I'm like, uh-uh. So that yeah, that's that's uh that's it. You can you can go on, sir.

Thank you. So uh the film La Pterita is based on Mil Milovan. Mia Milivan Milovan Glyshich's novel Posle Devedeset Godine after ninety years. Now the fun thing about this film, this was written in 1880, which was seventeen years before Dracula was written by Bram Stop. Now in general, this still isn't the first vampire film. I think that was a penny dreadful called Marnie the Vampire, but it's still one of the first vampire films. And this is considered one of the first official horror films to

Which at the time didn't really make horror films per se. So the legend behind this film is a very famous vampire from the Balkans called, and I know it's incredibly Slavic, Sava Savanovic. And similar to the film, it's said that this vampire lived in an old water mill on Rogatchica River at Razoye village in the municipality of Bayana Baya.

and drank the blood of the millers as they came to mill their grain. Now fun fact, that mill actually still exists today, but it collapsed in twenty twelve and was rebuilt. So Ship of Theseus, is it really there? Before I go further, any more. I just never feel as yeah, I just never feel as cultured as you can in any conversation. I I really feel like I've gone really behind in my life. Like I should have done more to become multilingual. It's it's a a flaw of mine, but proceed.

I was about to say, if it's about the pronunciations, I got the So the short story is relatively the same as the film with a few exceptions. For instance, in the beginning where it's all the uh grumpy old villagers who find out the remains of the previous Miller. In the main in the short story, the main character finds out the vampire.

and tries to trick it by dressing a piece of lumber up in cloth to make it look like a man. And when the vampire goes to eat it, uh, like a comic villain from back in the day says, Hey Sava Savanovic, after ninety years of being a vampire, never have you remained dinnerless the way you just did tonight before getting shot by the main character.

This actually connects to another change, which is when they go to open up the coffin layer, they find two bullet holes in the corpse related to that shot. Um Sava is not actually a woman in the original film, uh kind of like a traditional vampire. They describe him as a rather tall man with a blood-red face and a linen cloak from his shoulders that goes all the way to the back of the heels.

And then finally, the only other change is Radoika does not turn into a vampire and that her grumpy uncle, question mark, eventually is happy with the couple.

Happy ending. My last few tidbits from the story include Robert Eggers having credited Leptyritsa as one of the films that influenced the modern Nasferatu film that he made, which is just phenomenal in my opinion. And that the basis of vampires in Slavonic lore is a little bit different. Uh, they say they actually go through certain stages where they start out spiritual and then become like an ectoplasm before becoming a real person.

And that vampires in my part of the world supposedly could bear children, who then would could be half vampires and then could also be vampires. So I do have a question at this point. Uh it's definitely s a vampire, but at some point I was like, Is it a vampire or is it a werewolf?'Cause I feel like they also mentioned like oh you're looking out in the par or you're going out looking at the moon for werewolves and there's a little bit of behaviors and looks of both.

But like through most of the movie I thought it was vampire, but then I wasn't sure in the end. Is there supposed to be or is that like the stages thing you just mentioned? So we do have werewolves in that part. They're called Vukodluk, which literally means wolf hair. Um, in this case, I think it was actually closer to uh God, what's it called? It's a uh Mario Baba film. There's a feature in one of Mario Baba's films called the Burdola.

And that sounds really close to Vukodlak. And the Vordalok is a type of southern Slavic creature that's a vampire and a werewolf mixed together. So I think they actually got some basis off that when they were making uh Radoika into the vampire that she was.

The one thing I will address because it was very confusing to me, when it looks like she's trying to get him to open up the container, then dies, and then she's back in the crate, apparently that is a doppelganger type scenario. And so that's why it's a little off because She gets possessed by the spirit of the vampire and then the actual vampire comes out. Wasn't the vampire the whole time. I thought she was the vampire the entire time.

Correct. That is what they made it seem like, but in reality, once the coffin was actually became disturbed. I w I want to take a guess. The uh literal butterfly you see at the end is actually supposed to represent the spear of the empire coming out because apparently it would be able to take like the souls of children in ancient Slavonic lore. And I think in this case they use some liberties to actually say that it took over a her.

Okay. Speaking of uh the Vorlock, did anyone see that movie from a few years ago with the the puppet? I did see that, yeah. It was interesting. It looks phenomenal. Yeah, it was pretty interesting. Yeah. Let's talk about the way this vampire looks because this vampire was kind of one of my favorite parts of the film. My notes say, ah, a vampire in the night. Look at the cloak. I was like really entranced by this. I thought this was really dreamy. I thought this vampire was kind of fucking scary.

you get a shot of the teeth and I'm like, yeah, that's like some hardcore vampire. This isn't, you know, Lestat from Interview with the Vampire. This is like the real deal. Did anybody else think Lis was a creepy vampire or was it just me?

I literally wrote in my notes the vampire was creepy. So word for word. Yeah. Uh and it is it does help at first. You see it. Well, there's a great sound effect that goes with it that I thought was kinda creepy. And I'll talk maybe more about the sound and music a little bit later. I thought that the you see the eyes first, kinda through the slit in the middle and like you said shots of just

The teeth and you don't see the whole thing completely, which is probably for the best. So yeah, no, I definitely thought that was one of the the stronger parts of the movie. The vampire was in fact creepy.

What did you think about the first time? of the film. Like for instance when they went to go ask the uh matron of one of the local villages for some advice. Canana's turned me on. Yeah, it's so good. Canon has turned me on to Eastern European humor since Life and Death of a Porno Gang, which is a wild introduction. to that style of humor. But this was funny. I actually I laughed a ton and I think it's just

And especially, you know, knowing the conversations you and I have had, Kanan, about how dry this humor is. And when you when you know to expect it, you can laugh at it and you don't have to feel guilty. I found our like little gang of old men very funny. I found them so funny. They reminded me of like

if the seven dwarves like got old and were responsible for something, they cannot accomplish anything in this film. Like when they go and steal the girl back, that was hilarious too. They're like falling up the hill. I thought it was funny. You know what it reminded me of is um some South Korean horror movies that often have like that broad comedy thrown there, like even like a movie like The Wailing, which is a very creepy, scary movie, but then at times is like broadly funny.

And often the humor isn't exactly the same, but the idea of like the guys in the group are such buffoons, they couldn't do anything quite right. And I feel like I've seen several South Korean movies where the the characters are either like really bad at their jobs, usually cops in those movies.

But they remember me that a little bit. Um but yeah, like these guys, the one thing they go they go to get to the coffin, the one thing they can't do is let the butterfly go. And of course they have r have no plan for that and the butterfly immediately gets away. And I didn't think that was funny. Uh but yeah, the Deaf Grandma scene, I noted that too. That was quite funny, made me laugh out loud.

Yeah, lots of lots of bumbling idi idiotic going on there. Like, you know, just everyone just kinda getting drunk and laying around sleeping on the ground. It is not the funniest of the Yugoslavian films, but let me tell you, um, it uh it definitely captures the type of black comedy that my people were known for, where almost everything could be made fun of.

And it was just so endearing to me when I saw this film because is it the scariest vampire ever? No. Is it very creepy? Yes. So from a personal uh perspective, I was really pulled into it, especially when I was looking on Shudder one day and I'm like, Yugoslavian horror? Wow.

I think it was peak. So for me, it it I was kind of focused on all the sounds, obviously, with the the bell and the vagina, maybe. The blacksmith in the background like doesn't stop working. He is going. You have people in the background like

the whole time. And I I was like just like kind of entranced by, you know, the sound design. But then I was like trying to like I was trying to figure out is there like sociopolitical themes and metaphors going on that I was just unfamiliar with because I'm not a big

I don't I'm not much on history and all that type of thing. But like the creature inspects the wheat before killing and then literally riding on the shoulders of men to force them to confront like their own misunderstandings and hubris and past mistakes. that they've tried to like bury six feet under the earth. Um I mean that seemed pretty powerful, but d do you know Are they referencing a lot of things in there or is this just more folktale kind of comedy thing? What what do you say, Canon?

That is actually acts is all. On the other hand, when you see the villagers acting uh the way they are to their local priest, uh that a pretty easy reflection of how some people view religion in the the Balkans, which a lot of people are very faithful and the majority of us kind of aren't, in my opinion.

Uh, and that was the main commentary. Otherwise the rest of it is actually just uh intertown politics talking about marriages, how uh Given doesn't want the main character to marry uh Radoika just because uh he's from a poor stance. That's a that's about all I got. There wasn't really too much commentary, just a nice local story. And they don't like the priest because he's a So Mike, did you clearly missed the cowbell, but what other comments do you have on the sounds in this film?

Well, I mean, this movie did the thing that I love when I'm watching a movie from another culture is that it was very disorienting. Like I had I was dropped into this world, I had absolutely no sense of place and everything was foreign to me and there's I think all the different sound effects and the music In particular just

was not what I expect or usually will hear in a horror movie. And again, this is a horror comedy movie, but still. Um and I actually think that really helps the film.'Cause like I said, that's what I like about watching foreign international horror movies is the

I like to learn about a culture but I also like to feel very disoriented. I think that helps. And so um, you know, the sound that the vampire made or they hear in the woods and all the little echoes of the blacksmith and all that stuff really worked for me to make me feel sort of out of place. Which I think is cool. Yeah, I have to echo that. I think overall I know this took me a couple of times to get into because

I watched this on Tubi and they weren't Tubi captions. They were like captions embedded into the the actual film. And I don't know for some reason I'm just so used to my high contrast captions. So I kept missing the captions as I was watching this. So I had to keep restarting it. And I also, you know, have that thing where if I look away from the movie to like write a note and then I've missed like 17 plot points. That's how I felt watching this the first few times. But once I

got into it and I I actually didn't take a lot of notes on this film'cause I was trying to like watch it and understand it. I felt this was really dreamy and almost like nightmarish as the film goes on. We have a lot of horror in the daylight, especially the the climax of the film. And I wish I understood it more. Um, I think that was my only downside that I took away from it. But I definitely think if you're a folklore person, this is the one that you need to see.

Kanan, is there anything that we glaringly missed about the film that you think that we should know or that we should have noticed? No, in all honesty, just like we were talking about with any potential secret politicking in the film, it's actually just a pretty straightforward film based on a folklore legend that is encapsulated by the black comedy associated with Yugoslavian films in the seventies and eighties.

Just a nice film. It was uh really underrepresented in the uh uh the cinema of the time in Yugoslavia because people were still traumatized by World War II, so they didn't like anything involving horror, but uh it eventually got uh cult fall. Well, thank you for sharing it with us and keep forcing us to watch, you know, foreign language films. That is really important to the show. And we learn something every day.

I think it's also important. We haven't said to told the listeners something very important. This movie's sixty five minutes long.

So like if you're in trying to find something new in a culture you've not learned about, this is a great entry point because even if you don't like it, you're not in it for very long and I think it's it's worth your time. So I just wanted to sorry to interrupt, I just wanted to throw that out there'cause I think that would might inspire people to go check out this movie.

Okay, I think I'm up now and we're going to contemporary Massachusetts. That's right. We're watching session nine for 2001. Tensions rise within an asbestos cleaning crew as they work in an abandoned mental hospital with a horrific past that seems to be coming back. So this is not really my hometown because I tried to look up a Melonhead movie from Connecticut.

And there were no Melon Head movies. And I didn't want to watch The Hills Have Eyes because it's just not the same. So I went with a place that I had lived for a very long time. So session nine is set in Danvers State Mental Hospital.

which I lived ten minutes from when I lived in Salem. And it was formerly known as the State Lunatic Hospital, the Danvers Lunatic Asylum, and the Danvers State Insane Asylum. The hospital is believed to be the inspiration for the Arkham Sanatorium from Lovecraft's short story, The Thing on the Doorstep, which then went on to inspire Arkham Asylum of the Batman universe. It's been featured in many video games, podcasts, books.

most mental hospital tropes come from what we now know of Damper State Asylum. So the legends of the hospital and the nature of it date back to, of course, the Salem Witch trials. John Hawthorne was a notorious drug judge from the trials who presided over, you know, the all the bad stuff, all the killings that happened, and once occupied the same land where the hospital stood. Many people believe that the land itself is cursed and then it actually doomed the hospital from the start.

Once the hospital was in operation, there were several claims made against the hospital for inhumane treatment of the patients. The hospital is consistently overcrowded, and there is documented proof that several dangerous treatments were being used, including shock therapy and strait jackets and of course

The ice pick lobotomy. Danvers say Asylum has been called the birthplace of the prefrontal lobotomy, and the first version of the prefrontal lobotomy, which included drilling holes in the skull, was widespread at Danvers. Some historians also say that the more rever refined version of lobotomy, that is never a statement I thought I was gonna say, refined version of a lobotomy, which is the transorbital ice pick lobotomy, was first performed at Danvers as well.

So, as one might think, after all of this death and destruction, the hospital is now regarded as one of the most haunted places in New England, though New England is also so old that I think you can find a ghost anywhere if you just look hard enough. Visitors and investigators have reported apparations wandering the halls, disembodied voices, shadow figures, and overall just an unsettling atmosphere.

Most of the buildings are d were demolished in two thousand six and the remaining buildings are now apartments, which I think is wild. Dan actually took me to see the apartment complex and they still have the facade of the hospital, which is so creepy. Session nine was actually filmed just a few years before the demolition and most of the film does take place in the real buildings that where the hospital stood.

So David Caruso, who plays Phil in the film, reported that filming on site was quote terrifying. He went on to say it was a place that you never got comfortable in. It wasn't like on day three we were throwing water balloons'cause it was so much fun to be there. It was always scary. You can feel the pain of the people that went through Danvers. It's a rough environment. It's not fun and it's all on the film.

They didn't have to dress up any sets or say anything. All that stuff was sitting there. The federal government walked away from about from it about thirty years ago and it was a terrifying location. The only physical remnants of the history of the hospital are the gravestones that still are two in two nearby cemeteries, which mark about 770 bodies. Some headstones only have numbers as opposed to names.

leaving their stories and souls lost to time. So, Mike, I know you loved this film, so I'm gonna go to you last. But Billy and Cannon, had you seen this before watching it for the episode?

For me, I saw the film on the sci-fi channel growing up and I remember I think I was either nine or ten when I first saw it and that twist just completely shocked. I've never seen something like that in my whole life. So I remember that resonated with me with the film. When you when you mentioned it that that was gonna be your pick, it kind of unlocked a piece of me when I was innocent and still finding out horror films. I really Overall. Billy, right?

I I I had never seen it before. I had heard about it or at least heard the name, but I think I was like conflating what it was about with other things. And This one kind of left me a little frustrated. Um I c I like the start, the the opening. I'm I'm a sucker for like paying attention to the opening shots of films being like okay, what you know, this is gonna kinda

Prepare me and dictate what what this film is going to be about or what they're trying to do with it. And it's this the shot opens with this upside down. image of a long, h dark, dirty hallway with a chair sitting in the middle of it and the camera kind of spins around slowly. And I kinda had a feeling like I knew where it was gonna go once the dialogue starts kicking in with the two two men sitting in the car.

But where it went I wasn't too happy with. I wanted it to go a little bit differently. Um, but I'm conflicted because I like the setup and I and the of course the location's great and the characters were fine. I think maybe i after I was like looking into trying to figure out why it didn't sit right with me. And the director has done quite a lot of things that I enjoyed, like uh he's worked on Fringe and he's worked on the show The Killing.

But I think this was his first foray into horror and he had done like comedy before this. So I think he was kind of like really like figuring things out in the horror realm. And I I I think he did a good job with certain aspects and getting like the fear and the uncertainty in there. But I kind of felt I I guess I guess I was expecting something different from the old the old Susie. I thought it was gonna go one way and that's what I wanted it to be. And so it kind of like spoiled it for. Okay.

So, Mike, why don't you since I know you like this film as well, why don't you tell us a little bit about just a little bit about the plot? Like what is the setup for the film? Yeah so basically this old asylum is getting converted into something and I can't remember the specifics to what it is, but they have to get the asbestos out of it before it's converted, you know, so you don't kill more people.

And so uh there's different bids going on to different crews and our main crew uh run by a guy named Gordon. Uh I think he's the main owner, and then David Caruso's character, Phil. It's with him. Uh they are trying to bid to get the place and they eventually win the bid by agreeing they can clear the whole place out in a week.

which will be very hard and take a lot of work. Um and there's already clearly some tensions going on between the characters and with Gordon himself. And we're not really sure what that is'til much later. Something at home is not good. And that's kind of the setup for it all. And it's about them.

It's supposed to be working to clear out the asbestos, though I did note it seems like they don't actually do a lot of work, at least we don't see it. There's a lot of breaks and a lot of other things going on, of course. Um and very few of them seem to actually be working despite their very uh serious time. So that's a setup. Obviously way more than that. There's obviously something wrong in the hospital. There's something wrong with Gordon.

There's something wrong. Uh our guy, I believe his name is Mike, is the guy that finds us uh a bunch of tapes, uh, which are sessions, which leads to the eventually the titular session nine about uh patient who is there, Mary and She has dissociative identity disorder. Is that correct? D I D? Yeah. So he listens to all that and that that weaves its way in. So a lot going on. Um I'll say just say this to Billy that I felt similarly the first time I was

Like the tension is amazing. Uh there's dread permeating this movie everywhere. I think that it does an amazing job of slowly ratcheting up the tension. But the first time I watched it, I was also a little frustrated at the end. The second watch I liked it way better. And I liked it the first time. Like I think I rated it pretty high, but it like went to like nine out of ten zone for me the second time because

I think it's just one of those movies you're the second time through you're not trying to figure out. Again, I even read like the Wikipedia plot synopsis right before I watched it the second time. So I didn't have to think about, oh, I wonder what's gonna happen. And I was just focusing on other things. And I think that helped me out. Even if I didn't love everywhere it went necessarily in the end, I thought there were cooler breadcrumbs along the way that I had missed the first time.

Um and I miss a second time without my wife helping me out actually too, but I'm gonna give her credit for one uh we could talk about a little later. So I do think this movie demands a second viewing. I I think you'll like it better, you may not, but but it it helped me out quite a bit.

Back that up because I definitely appreciated it the second time around more than the first time. Well, mind you, no, I appreciate a lot of the first time, but I was a nostalgia but now as an adult while I could actually take in a bunch of the themes. It's an I also agree with you guys. It's not the ending I would have wished for it, especially when movies like The Void. But uh it it it has a satisfying ending for what the story is trying to tell, in my opinion.

So I also didn't when I didn't reflect like super fondly on my first watch of this, but I was like, Oh, it was okay enough. Like it was a solid three. out of five for me the first time I watched it. So I'm like, it's good enough to put back on the show. And watching it the second time, I don't know if it was nostalgia, but I brought this up to a four out of five for me. I think the atmosphere of the hospital does a lot of heavy lifting.

it's almost like a lot of contemporary gothic horror where the setting is its own character. So it does a lot of work. I mean, you're watching them have these very intense conversations about their relationships and, you know, the pressure that they're under under this deadline and they're also standing on the shambles of like a mass grave. You know what I mean? It's just like a crazy amount of um significance, I think, just being in the actually filming in the hospital.

This is a psychological slow burn, but I think it paces pretty well. Maybe I'm just really biased because I also love David Caruso. I told the crew that I was a big CSN Miami fan as a kid. So seeing uh Horatio Kane in this was great, big fan. He's just as hot as I remember, so it all worked out for me. But That shook me, that shook me girl. What, Horatio Cape? You always

I I think it's like one every episode there's something that that you say that like just shakes me. I'm like, Okay, David Cruiser, all right. I've never heard anyone in my life Damn, David Caruso has it going on, much less someone who's like not 65 years old. Listen, I I think I've said it on the show before. I like older men. There's nothing I can do with that. Okay, okay, okay. I I was excited uh to see j uh the character Jeff who is born from Empire Records. He's always good to

Oh yeah, that's right. That's right. So basically what we see here, Mike kind of alluded to this, is the the overarching theme of the film is the way that trauma kind of works on this.

And I'm kinda sad we're not doing segments on this episode because Kanan would absolutely rocket on a uh apothecary segment on this film because there's a lot of psychological stuff going on here. But the whole thing is basically the way that trauma changes the way that we look at the world and how the main character has basically constructed a version of reality that only he is seeing based on a traumatic event that has happened. So we can spoil it. Um

We find out that Gordon, Gordon, right, is an alcoholic and he has hit his wife and he's grappling with that. And he does, we get that he kills his family, right? That does happen. Correct. I'm like trying to remember. Yes. Correct. So he kills his family before the events of the film begin and then he starts to unravel and he eventually

kills his entire crew and we get some really interesting shots out of that. But Kanon, was there anything that you wanted to comment here on the way we see trauma? Obviously this is a really problematic take on DID, but anything you wanted to add there? So if you guys ever want my addition to colognes or anatomy, I actually write them up for every single film we write, even if I don't have So, what I had for session nine. Um, it's funny that you mentioned that bad take on DID because DID.

is a very controversial diagnosis'cause the more they've tried to study people that have true DID, the more it uh the scenes kind of fray apart where you find out that the distinctive personalities are almost like um schizophrenic hallucinations that come out from them, almost like the difference between being catatonic and the typical kind of schizophrenic. DIB itself, again, is very controversial. There are very few cases of it that are truly well defined.

And then the only other thing I wanted to mention is I love a good old lobotomy. People never understand why they uh occur the way they occur. Our f our entire personality is based mind you, not the entire It's much more complicated than that, but a lot of our personality is based on the frontal cortex. And the easiest way to get to your frontal cortex to scramble it up like some breakfast eggs is through the back of your eyesight.

which actually has a very, very tender type of bone that you do not need more than a few taps of that hammer to puncture right through, and then you literally s whizzle that stick around. Is anyone else like rubbing their eyes? Ugh, I'm like I'm like closing my eyes and flinching, like listening to that. Thank you, Kanon. I knew I knew I could count on you. I knew you'd have that handy. But

I mean this is a good little psychological thriller. Yeah. This is a good little psychological thriller. I think of the two thousands, this is a pretty heavy hitter. The two thousands gave us a lot of slop and this is pretty competent as far as the two thousands go. I think it's worth watching if you're into it. If you're into this type of thing. If you want blood and guts and, you know, you know, people smashing each other with hammers, like you're not gonna get it in this.

But if you like the architecture, if you like the, you know, the slow burn of this, it's cool. I think the characters are also pretty well fleshed out. They have their own distinct personalities. They interact with each other. It's a good character piece. um other than the problematic parts on DID, like life goes on. But anybody else have any closing thoughts on this? I think this is humbly not the worst film we're gonna review tonight. Oh no. It's one hundred percent.

Yeah, I uh I got a couple of things. I have something that I think is cool that maybe will inspire you to watch again and then I have a question for all you guys about the movie. Um so the first I did not realize so the first time I watched it, I think what I didn't like some of it was I didn't feel like Some of the clues made sense and it's just because I was dumb and didn't get them. But like

Gordon we saw earlier when he goes home, he has like flowers, he very has prominently has um Oreos and peanut butter in his bag or whatever. And so then those things start showing up at the asylum. And at some point they kick an empty gifts. Uh Jiff Peanut Butter thing.

And I am still dumb'cause my wife had to point out to me it's because that's where he's been living. Gordon actually lives at the asylum. He tells'em he's been staying at a motel and that's because he's actually been living there. He ate all the peanut butter while he was there. I was like, Oh, that's actually pretty cool. Okay. Uh I missed that, so I think that's cool. Um I do think all the I appreciate that. Yeah, I was like, Yeah.

That's why it's empty. That's really cool. And that's why the flowers are there and Oreos and all that. So very cool there. My question is, what do you think so there's three personalities, you know, quote unquote whatever that that Mary has, and the last one is Simon, and Simon's the battery. What do we think Simon is supposed to be? Is it actually A demon? Is it the ghost of a patient? Is it a manifestation of guilt and it's all psychological?

Um I the argument I made, if you wanted to argue the Simon is actually like a demonic and there's actually a force here. Uh when Mike opens the box with the tapes, uh originally with all the sessions, it sounds like something is released, that there's a definite deliberate sound effect.

Um so if you believe that it was released into the asylum, now that wouldn't cover Gordon Kill and his family, so you can't say the demon made him do that. But maybe something that has to do with him, uh'cause it says this uh Simon I c wish I'd written down the quote, but basically he's 'Cause they always ask where the personalities live and Simon lives in the week or something like that, which would be Gordon.

So that sort of made sense, but I was curious, did you guys have any thoughts about what Simon is supposed to be or am I off completely off base here? I think that's a really cool take, Mike. Yes, yes. It's really cool, especially when you think about like the actual lore of Denver State Hospital, which is that it's haunted, that there's ghosts in it. So this idea that a patient andor the demonic

presence that may have inhabited a patient is still in the hospital is really cool and probably one that a lot of people would be interested in in looking at. The way I saw it, was more of like the psychiatric lens, which is the pieces of the psyche. Because one of the theories and canon crack me with the ID is this idea that the personality quote splits. So, you know, after encountering a traumatic event the personality kind of

like different pieces of it sit in different places and there's pieces that remember parts of the trauma and pieces of them that don't. So when Gordon kills his family, it's a traumatic event and causes a split, which is very much not how DID works even in documented cases in children. It's very not it's I don't think it it's actually been documented at all that D ID can onset in adults. It's usually a

Diagnosis that appears after childhood trauma. So it just isn't accurately diagnosed, but that's what I thought it was. I thought it was like a split of. Of Gordon and they were just doing a mirror against Mary'cause the tapes were there and that was sort of like a hint to tell us what was going on with Gordon. But that's that's my take. Come on, did I get any of that kind of right?

yeah and it's I've argued with friends before because again, if you dive into the deep literature, D I D is still a very questionable diagnosis. Even the cases with children developing it, you can use it almost as a kind of suppression tactic where it's not that their minds Splits. It's that uh kind of like with schizophrenia where you hear things talking to you or you see things in front of you that

people interpret things differently and can bifurcate them in their memories. It's a lot more it's a lot more convoluted than that. But you're not too far off with the take. I personally thought that he was just going through

psychiatric break. You know, schizophrenia is a chronic condition for people, but people can have psychotic episodes. And I really think that's what he experienced. And so it wasn't really a split. It was him in a whole nother version of himself and he only broke through occasionally, but he never had two distinct personas, in my opinion. I'm real interested to get to give this a second why. Uh I guess so I was basically

from the get go when you see Gordon in the car with David Caruso talking. And several times in the film, uh Caruso's character is like saying, Wake up, Gordon, wake up. I thought the twist of the film was gonna be that This is like a therapy session, session nine, where they've got him hypnotized trying to figure out what happened. And we were watching it play out in his mind. And I thought that's how it was going to end. snapping to being in a psychiatric like office talking to Sat.

Um, but yeah, I like I like those I ideas, Mike. And I don't know if it was Simon, one of the characters said something, um, I live in the eyes because I see everything, sir. Which I thought that was kind of creepy. Um I do you c you question the uh the characters like motivation for or or their work ethic, I guess, because they

were doing a horrible job. They didn't really look like they had been working all even at the end of the long days. Like I mean, I've done stuff like that and you you I mean your face is just dirty and marked up from wearing a mask. And one thing that bugged me is homeboy with the headphones. Like I work with earbuds and that's fine, but if I was gonna go back to a job site at night to like steal from it. I probably wouldn't have headphones blasting off.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And just it like the last thing I'm gonna call out because I think it's a creepiest fuck scene. And I'm gonna pass it back to Mike for the next film. is the scene when the young kid is he's afraid of the dark, also so valid, so am I. I'm legitimately afraid of the dark. And he's like in the tunnel and the lights start going out and he's like literally running and screaming as the lights are going out behind him.

I thought that was amazing acting. Maybe just'cause I related so hard, but that is exactly what I would be doing, is screaming like a child and running for my life. I thought that was scary as hell, but Ankles film's worth giving a shot. Just one just one try, I think. But Mike, let's pass it over to you. What do you have for us tonight?

I can't wait to get into the deep thematic analysis of my film tonight. Uh staying in the same time period from 2002, I have chosen Eli Roth's cabin feature. Five grap college graduates rent a cabin in the woods and begin to fall victim to a horrifying flesh eating virus, which attracts the unwanted attention of homicidal locals.

So before I explain why I chose Cabin Fever specifically, it gives me an opportunity to talk about a different hometown horror, has nothing to do with Cabin Fever, but what else am I going to talk about? And it has not been made into a movie as of yet, but is a pretty famous true crime story. So we're not even talking urban legend here. This actually happened uh in the area around where I live.

So it is called the Lawson Family Murders. It occurred on Christmas Day in nineteen twenty nine. A local sharecropper, Charlie Lawson, murdered his wife and six of his seven children. The crime apparently came out of nowhere. Speculation as to the motive has been debated for nearly a century now. The two most popular theories are that one, he had sustained a head injury in some of his work at the farm, and that had led to a psychotic and personality break.

Uh but the steamier well that seems gross to say steamier when I'm about to say this, but the other theory is that he had impregnated one of his daughters and had killed the all family to cover his sin. So there have been two books written about this.

One is called White Christmas, Bloody Christmas, and that book is really hard to get your hands on around here. It's treated like a sacred tome in my neck of the woods. And the other is called The Meaning of Our Tears. They're both written by Trudy Smith. The story's also been featured on the criminal podcast as well as many other local ones. It's a really fascinating s but also scary and morbid story, and I think it can make a hell of a horror movie. Um so that is our serious hometown horror.

But nothing to with Captain Peter. I just wanted to share last night any any thoughts of the loss of palamers. I doubt any of you have ever heard of it, have you? I wanna say I have no. The ch post true crime era I think everything just blends together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah now.

Anyway, back to Cabin Fever. So the reason I actually chose this uh was not related to a local legend at all. It was just simply because it was literally filmed uh in my little rural North Carolina neck of the woods uh in the surrounding counties. Um much of the movie was filmed at our local Boy Scout camp.

And the infamous Dennis Pancakes scene, uh, as well as a couple others was filmed at a place called Pretty General Store, which is a local store that's been around here since eighteen eighty eight.

I remember the first time that I visited the store and I literally went to go visit the first time because it was in Cabin Fever. It was because I love this movie. Um and I was devastated to find out there is no swing outside of this door and there is no sign that says please do not sit next to Dennis. I was very saddened by that.

However, many years after that sojourn, this is a true story, my daughter got her first ever picture of Santa sitting outside Pretty General store, right where Dennis would have been seated. So that is a very point of parental pride for me. Nice as it should be Dennis. So I have a complicated history with this movie. Um When I first saw it in probably shortly after it came out.

But in 2004 I wrote a review for this actually. Uh my friends and I had a website at the time and my job is to uh review movies. I was only a minor horror fan at the time, and so I don't actually agree with 2004 me's take. But this is what I said about it the first time I saw it, and I think a lot of people, not me, probably still agree. So here's a just a little if you'll humor me here, little excerpt from the.

I said the overarching problem of this film is it cannot decide what kind of movie it is. Is it a true horror flick? Is it a campy horror spoof? Is it an existential look at pancakes? I am really not sure I know. I do know this. The plot can be summed up in one sentence. College kids go to a cabin in the woods to get drunk for spring break. and all end up dying by some some mysterious infection that they can track through infected water. Sounds flawless, right? Not exactly.

Let's start with the fact that we're never told where the hell this infection originated or what the hell it is. Now some people would say that makes it scarier, but let's face it, we all hate those people. I think my colleague Roger Ebert summed it up. Um

Summed up the shortcomings of this infection best when he said in his review the nature of the disease is inexplicable. It seems to involve enormous quantities of blood appearing on the surface of the skin without visible wounds, and then spreading in wholesale amounts to every nearby surface. That's right, Roger Ebert is my colleague, is how I ended that.

So here's what I thought after read my own review. One, I think I used to be a much better writer than I am now. Two, I love Cabin Fever now. I love that it tries to be many things. In two thousand four I was not sure what Eli Roth was going for and if he knew what he was doing, but I am now certain he did. I love that I understand a lot of the references to horror movies uh that he put in there, including the Dennis Pancake scene, which I'm sure we'll talk about.

Uh that is an allusion to the great wacky Spanish slasher from nineteen eighty two Pieces, I believe. It's just a fun movie, if occasionally problematic,'cause it is very two thousand two, but it still makes me laugh consistently, so I will leave it at that, that very long intro. Uh, and I'll throw it to Billy first, because I already know I think where lonely's gonna go with this. We'll start with Billy. What do you think of Cabin Fever?

So the interesting thing about it is no one in the film actually dies from the sickness. It's being murdered by other people who are afraid of them having sex And I feel like what what Roth is doing here is He's trying to pick up where the eighties kind of left off and and kind of pushing the nineties aside where we kind of Well, yeah.

people were afraid and not allowed to put, you know Nudity and gross, gross out scenes in the films, you know, uh parental advisory boards were kind of going crazy with that. And so I think he was trying to bring that look and feel into the new millennium. And again, I was trying to, you know, pay attention to the op how this opened and it's very simple, uh, subtle, effective opening where it's just this kind of static image.

That slowly turns red as if blood is seeping in as the sounds of flies increase. And another thing I was picking up on is it seems he was basically picking all of like the heavy hitter horror films and paying homage to them with certain shots. Uh like I picked up there's the Texas Chainsaw Massacre shot where uh we focus on uh one of the female actresses ass as she walks up towards a house.

Um, I was even picking up like Night of the Living Dead at the end when they're burning bodies, creep show on the raft. out in the water and of course just for it be being out in the woods, you know, Friday the thirteenth images and I have the shining written down. I'm I can't even remember what that was reminding me of. But um yeah. Um so yeah, I don't know what what uh what do you think about it, Kanan?

I have to say before you jump in Canon, I feel like I just aced a test because I had like three of the four references that Billy just made in my notes. It's like I'm I'm finally getting there someday, guys. I'll figure it out. Uh sorry, Kanan, continue. So just like with uh session nine, I saw this film very early on in childhood, I think around age eight, and it scared the absolute hell out of me.

Mm. Um uh because of that, when I was watching this film, I was more or less enjoying it like a film I haven't seen in a while, and I did not catch any of those horrors. So feel free to take away my horror card guys. Um overall, uh just like the time that um I think it was yeah, I think it was with uh Lonely and uh Projectile Varmit, we reviewed uh Dead End.

or one of the films like that from 2003. It's very much a film of its time. Some of the language is a little bit crass. Some of the themes are as well. But uh it was the kind of horror film that I grew up with. So I still consider it pretty homely. Uh I like the random stoner that comes in with his dog. He's a very interesting random character to throw in there. The voyeur scene when they go to that house along the lake, that was unneeded, but I think

hilarious. And the ending with the storekeeper, I mean, that that was a twist I did not expect. And it was a pleasant twist in that way. That's all I gotta say.

Okay, it's my turn. I think I went last on purpose. Um, I didn't like cabin fever. I think no one is surprised by this. I I don't know. I have such a love hate with Eli Roth and I feel like 2002 It's still a little late for some of the problematic shit that we see in this film. It's like a bingo card of every possible slur that you could feature in a film. And I think the only thing that rivals that is the last film we're gonna review tonight.

Like some of these I don't know, maybe I I'm gonna get the people in the comments who are like, Lolie needs to lighten up. But there's one line that's literally like, we have to kill the squirrels because they're gay. And I'm like Who's laughing at that? Like what what drunk men are like, oh my god, that's the best thing that's ever written? And then another line is it's not funny. Yes, it is, you slut. Okay, great. Glad we got that covered.

But, you know, the script is terrible. I understand it's supposed to be a satire most likely, but it's I mean, to what everyone's already said, it doesn't commit to being a satire. Like there's moments where it takes itself seriously, so you're not really sure what camp you're in.

But other than that, I mean the atmosphere was great. I think the scenes in the woods look really, really cool and really, really scary. Like sometimes I caught myself like looking into the trees and it's really dark and overwhelming. And the body horror is fucking insane. I'll give it that. My scariest part of the film though was when they pour a cup of water from the faucet and the body has been in like the water supply. And chunks are in the cup.

That that was it for me. I had to walk that one off and then return to the film. Overall, not my favorite. I know a lot of people like this, a lot of people cite this as one of the best films of modern horror, but I don't know. I find it to be really problematic and not funny. And I think we need to reflect on that, but that's just me. Well here's another one. Reasons I disagree with.

All right. Um, so here's another reason for you to not like it, lonely. The actress uh Serena Vincent, who played Marcy. Uh I th I think she was kind of like the weakest link in the film. Uh the one who's in the tub and and shaves her legs off. So when she was cast, I don't know if if she completely approved for nude scene.

Uh, think she had been nude in a previous film and or at least showed her boobs and she didn't want to be known as the boob girl. And so Eli Roth you know, was unhappy with that and they argued back and forth over how nude she would get and they agreed with like There's a sex scene with like some side boob. She agreed to the the nudity in the tub.

But then even on the sex scene, she told him that she would allow him to show one inch of her ass. And he apparently pulled out a tape measure and measured one inch of her ass crack. And then taped the sheet there. So I don't really know if I like that. I think he's I think that's kind of shitty, but um Yeah. Um, I'd also like to say uh the the character Paul by Ryder Strong. I do like how they kind of start off with him being like the nice guy and he ends up being the worst one of the group.

And I'm still not sure what his hi the impetus for him turning over the body in the water was. besides just for the character to fall in on top of it. It seemed pretty silly, but, you know, I guess that's where the satire is, huh?

So a f a couple of things I want to say. The I did think it was somewhat uh entertaining that a lot of the problematic uh two thousand two language comes from a literal Karen. Uh the character Karen actually says quite a bit of it. Um not the squirrel one. It's funny though how you know you evolve over time. You know, I remember thinking when I first saw this movie, the character Bert I thought I did think was funny, not that line necessarily, but

And like now I watch this movie, I'm like, why is anyone friends with this guy? He's the absolute fucking worst. Like he has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I don't know why he's even there or they invited him at all. So I didn't love that. Um I do have to say you mentioned the the stoner that comes up to him. I will admit that my friends and I who I watched the movie with originally twenty plus years ago still to this day will say to each other when we see each other

scratch moted, which is what he says when he says his dog is the professor of being a dog. Um Great, right. Uh I was gonna anyone has anything I have some more local things to connect. Does anyone else have anything else they wanna point out? Any specific scenes uh from the movie?

The only comments I wanted to make was one lonely, I disagree with anyone that says this is one of the best horror films of the modern era. I don't think so. It got me when I was eight, and I'll give it that much credit. It did get me when I was eight. And also it does have problematic language. You are one hundred percent right. I disagree with the statement that you say it's too late for that because this is exactly the type of culture that I grew up in going through middle school where

You're right. Absolutely any slur got thrown around by every piece of shit that went to my school, but it was still in the same I consider this like a horror movie version of American Pie and America Pie was still in the zeitgeist. the world at the time. My only other qualm I will add and then I'll I'll get off my soapbox is the at one point so there's the girl I lost track of the girls. Um one of them

She ends up with a thing on her leg, like her thigh. There's like the flesh on her thigh. And he basically finds out that she has the infection by non-consensually touching her while she's sleeping. Like She's asleep and he's like, you know what? This is a great time to do? Make a move on this girl. And then he tries to, you know, get to third base, and then his hand goes in the flesh hole. And that's

Like that whole thing is also unless that was supposed to be satire. Like I don't know. And then I'm afraid to like review this film on the internet because all these men are gonna be like, It's satire. You're just dumb. So those are my my last thoughts. Please take it away, Mike. Damn. I don't think it's satire. Please clip the hand in the flesh hole. Please clip her saying that.

Uh yeah. I look, it's not a good movie. It's not one of the best movies of the twenty first century. It holds a special place in my heart. I enjoy watching it. I understand it's problematic and it's of a time. So I'll leave it at that. But I do have a couple cool little small world uh local things if you will humor me again for a second. So first fun small world fact.

The opening credits of the movie note that some of the music was done by Angelo Battalamenti, who among many other things composed music from David Lynch movies in TV shows including Twin Peaks and Maholland Drive. And Daniel J. Coe, who composed the theme for my Epic Optimus segment that you hear on this fine podcast right here, he used to work for Angelo Battalamente. He was his assistant.

So Dan told well actually he posted on Facebook. I shouldn't say he told me personally. But when David Lynch passed away he shared the story that he actually met uh David Lynch once. And when David Lynch found out that Dan was uh Batterlemente's assistant, Lynch said, and I quote, Well I'll be ding dang.

And somehow that feels exactly what David Lynch should have said. And I just thought that's a fun story. Um for local things, first of all, I can confirm that the people who actually run pretty stores, uh pretty general store are not outwardly racist. So I'd like to point that out if you like. I have the platform I should say that. Third thing, so one of the students I taught from one of the first classes I ever taught. So when I first started teaching

He was a Boy Scout at the time they were filming this movie at the Boy Scout camp. And Eli Roth let him sit in the director's chair and he thought that was super cool. And he actually let him take home one of the Jordan Ladd dummies. Uh of some some part when the sh her face was eaten off after filming and he got to use that in his family's haunted trail for Halloween for years, which I think is super cool. Um And finally the last scene at the end.

uh after you know the silliness happens, they all start playing bluegrass music right outside and that's an actual thing that happens there. There's something called picking at Pritties and they play bluegrass music outside of Pritties probably exactly where it was in the movie. So I thought that was just kind of cool that's a a real thing that they put in the movie. And that's your local Anyone have anything else to add before we move on to our final movie of the night?

Happy to do it. All right, Billy. Let's go. Let's hear about yours. Oh, the anger the anger. So problematic films. Yes. Okay. So this is a film called Zomphology from 2008. And it's about Tiffany Sheppis, who is a like C-grade screen queen. And she is kidnapped by a fan and forced to watch three. Reesh. Short zombie stories. And the tagline is four stories, three directors, one nasty. Bye.

So the reason I picked this film is because it's one of the few films that you can actually see that I worked on. And if you don't believe this, uh I don't know what to tell you, but the other one is absolutely unwatchable. And I actually make a you know, blinking you'll miss it appearance in here, and I make a bit of a different type of appearance a little bit later on.

But yeah, I was on set providing all the practical gore effects for the stripper from Betwixt the Graves segment. And that was filmed in my hometown of Alexandria, Virginia. And the slight case of zombism segment was filmed here in Richmond, Virginia. And I'm not positive, but I think the curse of Zombie Lake was filmed in Charlotte. So for the stripper segment, I was on set for Mm. a couple of days that were like twenty hour back to back shoots and it was rough.

and the casting crew were filming in the director's condo and man That small one bedroom, one bathroom flat smelled really unique by the time we were finished. There was like 12 people or so eating Greek takeout. squirting buckets of chocolate and corn syrup blood all over the place, not to mention the vagina goo, the flinging mud and crushed cherries used for the melting face. It was really ripen.

And we laid down plastic and cheap carpet over the existing one, but it soaked through and had to be replaced. And the director's parents who were, you know, gonna sell the place on put it on the market, they were really uh upset because they had to replace all the carpet in the house. And the exterior scene outside the strip club where I make a blinkin' you'll miss me cameo was filmed in Old Town Alexandria, where I used to hang out all through high school.

And on a side note, if you travel south from Old Town Alexandria on the George Washington Memorial Parkway, you'll end up at Mount Vernon Estate, former home and current resting place of George Washington. And I worked on the grounds and livestock crew there from nineteen ninety-three to nineteen ninety-eight and pretty much had free reign of over five hundred acres of the property that butts up against the Potomac River.

And I remember hearing stories about a chair in the mansion that would periodically move from the second floor to the first floor in the middle of the night. And apparently there was security alarms and motion detectors turned on at night. So no one could, you know, have snuck in and done it. But I'd also hate to think there's like an O C D ghost out there who's just moving chairs around.

Uh so that's a bit of a little uh urban legend there. And then on another side note, in Richmond, Virginia, uh it's home to the historic Hollywood Cemetery. And I highly recommend you check it out if you come visit here. It's really beautiful and um just kind of gothic and dark. And Allegedly, there's a vampire myth that was born in 1925 after the Churchill tunnel train collapsed and a terrifying figure with pointed teeth.

Supposedly emerged from the ruins only to disappear inside a sealed mausoleum in Hollywood Cemetery. And Satanist and occult groups have reportedly gathered at the site for decades trying to contemplate. And I actually knew someone who strangely lived in the cemetery. Um, I don't know if I would do that. But anyways, um, my movie is not about vampires, it's about zombies and homophobes and misogynists.

And uh f looking from looking on the letterbox, I know where Mike sits. I know where Lonely sits. I do not know where you sit on this canon.

I had such for this film because honestly like the the little interstitial scenes, yeah, that's very that's even more crude than um uh than Cabin Fever uh versus the first film. I thought it was just a very cute, a little like zombie segment. Like that one really got me. I was able to hold like a five, six out of ten. I'm like, okay, okay, we can do this.

And then we talked about how Lepterius is a pretty short film. I could not believe the length of this film because when I got to halfway through, I thought it had been two hours and it just dragged on. The only redeeming quality to the segment was a lot of the crude humor like the goop falling out of the zombie. That pulled me in just for a second. But honestly, this this film was like a three out of ten for me. What was that?

Very, very rough. That middle segment could have been chopped down by like 45%. Honestly. Gotcha. What about You, Mike. Hit me with your half a star thoughts. So it's probably But I saw the lonely give it one star. I was like, no, I think I like it less than lonely. Um Yeah. So look, I will do my epic optimist thing here that I will find the couple good things. I am glad people are making local movies like this. I think it absolutely rules. I want people to keep doing this.

I don't need to watch them, but I'm glad it's happening. Like I think that's I actually did note I thought the effects in that final segment were really good, so good job, Billy. That was a specify I'd forgotten you had said that's what was the connection. completely honest. So I thought that was actually very good. I was very grossed out for any number of reasons. Um But aside from that, there was a couple good score moments. I didn't note that as well.

But yeah, this was this was rough. I was thankful um Uh the in in a weird way that it had way more problematic language than cabin fever because I felt less bad about my pick after that. But yeah, man, it was it was rough for sure. It was too long. Uh in the first segment I was definitely rooting for the lake zombies. I wanted them to kill all those people. Um did not love the representation of the guy that's supposed to have some sort of cognitive disability in that first one. That

I had a problem with that. Um, though I did laugh out loud when he yelled at my slinky. I don't I wrote that in my notes. I don't remember why he yelled that, but it did. something about the line delivery. But um I noted in the second one, uh, this just reminded me of like the dorm room there in the showers and it reminded me of the in dorm room, this is why we have shower shoes. That's all I kept thinking the whole time through the whole uh second case of zombieism part. Um,

But yeah, it was it was rough. Oh I did write the beating the guy with his arm in the last segment. I thought that was a little bit entertaining, but it was rough. It was crude. A little too crude for me. I used the the skip ten second button several hundred times uh through and I don't think I missed much but But I'm Every movie's a miracle as I say in my segment is how he makes Lonely? I'll toss it to you.

Yeah, so this is rampant with homophobia and challenged my prior statement on cabin fever saying that that was too late for that. Two thousand eight is really late. Uh For this much homophobia. I guess maybe I don't know. Do you guys Is you guys count as the South down there, Billy? Are you officially the South by the time we get Kind of So the the director who worked on who did the segment that I worked on, um, the I went to high school and college with him.

And he's Greek. So take from that what you will. But uh a lot of guys that I knew in high school were super homophobic to the point where anytime they were like just getting rowdy and acting up, I would just go and grab their junk. And they would they wouldn't know what to fucking do. It was like like the goats that like faint. They they would just like freeze and like they would shut down. And I was just i it was it was pretty ridiculous. But yeah, I

Yeah. I had forgotten how They were and it w and it was pretty aggressive. Um on top of the fact that like the the Tiffany Sheppis, she's just insufferable and screaming and just dropping so many F. Um. Yeah. Oh shoot. Yeah, she's so I have no idea who Tiffany Shepsis is. Like I had to look up who this person was and it just says a lot about you as a person, humbly, if you are already a C grade actor and you feel like

a good use of your time is acting out a script like this. So, I don't know, Tiffany, we're not we're not gonna be besties, I guess. Um I'll add her to a list of people that I would, you know. Not fight, you know, not want to be friends with. But do you have any ac are you gonna give her any excuses, Billy? I'm curious.

Not not really at all. Um sh I mean she got paid. I think might have been one of the few people who did get paid. Uh on a s on a side note um this guy probably got paid in the I think maybe your favorite segment about the fee. There's uh that the doctor who tells him to keep just putting the spray on his foot. That guy was played by Jim Krut, who you might know as the helicopter zombie from Dawn of the Dead. Whoa. That's cool. Yeah! That's... So that's kind of cool. Um

I don't think really anyone else got paid. My effects budget, which is all the money I got for for work and anything, was like between three and four hundred dollars. So I would I had to pull off my thing with that. And speaking of pulling off my thing, um Yeah. I had to So when the director sent me the script, you know, I saw in it that there was, you know, uh several um two penises that get ripped off, one flaccid and one erect.

And I was, you know, responsible. He he really wanted those to be prominent in the film. And I was like, how do I do this? Do I you know, do I go to like a sex shop and and buy something? But I kind of felt like, you know, if it was gonna get screen time it needed to have character. So I cast myself. and made prosthetic for myself and actually like I don't know if you guys are familiar with punching in hair, but it's it's basically like you take a small needle and basically sew hair and things.

I'm I have a memory of like cutting my pubic hair to punch in hair on the testicles that hung from the ceiling fan. So that was fun. Um And then I had my wife help me with the other prosthetic penis that gets ripped off. And oddly enough, um after filming I came home and my roommate had put it in the blender. I guess he was having a party and wanted to see it dance around. So that was kind of weird. Um And it was strange we actually did s have a viewing of the film here in Richmond at the end.

theater so it was really weird to see that up on a big screen. Um, and it actually is in those prosthetics appeared in other movies, a movie called The Taint. which was also filmed in Richmond that uh I'm interested if lonely would ever uh be willing to take a look at because it's about the water system that gets tainted and turns men into crazy killer misogynists.

and they all run around with giant, giant penises and it's a pretty big gross outfest. But um yeah, moving away from the penis talk, um So How can we move past that though? Any any questions? Any questions on that? That was that was strange. I thought I thought I did good of my segment of putting in random things. Man, you going from the pubic hair to the taint. Oh my gosh. First of all, the taint sounds like have you ever have you ever seen the film Doghouse, the British zombie film?

I have not. Where it's a s where it's a couple of misogynistic men who uh get attacked by a village of all women who've torn apart all the men due to a zombie virus. Look at fairly interesting film for it being relatively tongue-in-cheek uh misogynistic film, but uh the taint. From what I can. I didn't know. I have so many. I have so many thoughts.

in prayers, I guess. Where we're at. I'm having a kind of like come to Jesus moment about the the life and death of this show. Because we might be here. This I just never thought this is where we'd be. And we can cut this. I need to know. Was it to scale, Billy? Is that like to scale? A scale replica? I I mean when you ca I I didn't cast it in foam latex, it was just regular latex. So I mean it shrinks up a little bit. But I remember that the the director I freaked him out because

He asked about it. He's like, Is that is that how big it is? And I was like, He and and I told him a um a fraction of, you know, I think I told him That's Like three quarters. Basically. I don't know, you know. You yeah, there's levels, there's levels. He thought I said it was one third and he was looking at me really differently for the rest of the filming. Um

And speaking of the filming, um, I was, you know, geez, I was in my early thirties, so definitely battling the alcoholism there. Um, The the guy who was passed out on the floor with the bottle of uzo by the end of filming, that was water because I was sneaking away and drinking. And uh yeah, and I remember the the director like was like mad because of continuity. I was like, dude, no one is fucking worried about. Um but uh one a couple of other quick little uh you know insights.

Um on the sh in and the stripper. segment when the zombie goes to the actual strip club at the beginning of the that segment and kills the stripper that she gets the address for that she goes to when that stripper is killed and laid up against the wall. It was supposed to emulate the album cover for the Appetite for Destruction artwork from Guns N' Roses.

And that was the night that the filming broke me because there was a line where She was supposed to say you need to change your prescription j drug of choice and she couldn't say it. And we went through like twenty-five, thirty takes. And at this point it was four in the morning. And I just at one point I just looked at the director and I was like, I gotta fucking go, dude. And I just left.

Um and then another cool thing about it is there's the character who busts out the cocaine and He is actually a police officer, I believe in DC, and still a police officer and still acting. Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi và hẹn gặp lại. Everyone knows. Th yeah, I I do have did did you like did you were it was it at least positive for you in the stripper segment that Y Yeah, yeah, sure. Um, I think my favorite part of the film is when the credits rolled and I got to say, Dan, look, it's Billy.

Yeah. So so I I hate the movie Elf, but there's a scene where Buddy the Elf goes Santa! I know him! That's how I felt. I was like, oh my god, it's Billy. I know him. So even after all of that, after all of that, I was still I was still glad to be affiliated with you. And you know what I did like didn't like I was impressed by the feat scene. Um it was

so fucking gross and disgusting and unlocked a part of my brain I didn't know was there. The text I sent to Billy while I was watching it was quote, the fucking feet segment has me fucked up. I may actually vomit. So disgusting. It was so gooey and peely. And the fact that like, God, you know that hurts so bad. And he keeps fucking spraying it with athlete's foot spray. I'm like, I'm like choking up just thinking about it.

I know that's not your segment, Billy. Your segment I echo Mike that the blood was spectacular in that scene. And I rewind I did a rewind multiple times'cause I know you mentioned that you make a cameo and I'm like, where? Where? I kept rewinding in the condo to see if you were there, but clearly I was in the wrong scene altogether. I mean

I would feel much better if your segment or even all three of the segments were kind of like standalones, like separate. Like if we just cut Tiffany out, I think we would have at least had A solid one and a half star film. Mike, do you think maybe we could get it to one and a half with No Tiffany?

I can go as high as one, I think, without Tiffany. Uh for sure. Uh I it is pretty fascinating though how knowing what you've said about the background of the directors of the last segment and everything and all the homophobic nature of a lot of things in this movie, how many dicks there were in that last segment, you know. Just saying. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, things are buried deep, but

I yeah, I went down on my rating after after seeing your two ratings. I think I was like trying to feel myself and I was like, Man, I had uh you know, you had fun on set that was really fun filming, and then you're like, uh oh. Okay. I ended up this this time watching it, I actually enjoyed the curse of Zombie Lake a little bit more. Uh, because it's just, you know, it's it's silly, it's satirical, it's got like an evil dead vibe. And there's a really cool shot of when the sheriff is handcuffed

to like an old busted down like Chevy or something. And the camera pans into his sunglasses and you see the zombies reflected in the in the sunglasses. I thought that was pretty sweet. And then um I I kinda always chuckle when there's a guy who's like smoking a joint. and gets pulled through uh an opening a crack in the door and he's still smoking that But um but yeah, I uh I initially was gonna give it a two and a half and I went down to a two.

Um and uh I'm I'm sorry it was rough for all of you, but uh I really appreciate you for uh watching. I've been trying to get some people to watch it for a while and I was gonna do a uh uh show on exploding heads with the guys, but unfortunately they retired before we got to it, or fortunately for them, I guess. What a shame. And this is the time for me to introduce my new segment, D Plague Doctor Al, The Epic Optimist, three out of ten. And no, no, in all honesty. The the zombie lake one actu

of the uh more controversial depictions. So that was the only redeeming factor of this film. But because I love tormenting lonely, lonely, would you like to hear of some of the worst cases of Tina Peter? Yeah. Oh, I'm so afraid. I it's athlete's foot. No. So did you know athlete's foot could potentially cover a whole foot if it's left untreated and it turns? I'm not even kidding.

80% similar to what s some of those feet look like. If you just let it go, woof, you gotta get on those IV antifungal medications and it is not pretty. No, can on. Have you ever seen it in person? No, mostly too. Yeah. Man, some of the photos, you could smell it through the photos. That's what I mean. No. Sweet dreams tonight, lonely. Ha ha ha. Smell o vision.

And I thought that'd just be the perfect way to end this. So, because of that depiction I could give to Lonely, I appreciate you, Billy D. Oh thank you so much. Yeah, well how are you gonna segue that shit, Kanan? Are we going in a closing thought? Yeah.

So closing, just like the festering wounds on that foot, we have our closing thoughts. What is the one country/slash culture within the world that you would like to have a horror film or more horror films? And I will start this because ironically enough, this connects with the director and some of Billy's friends. Greek. Oh yeah.

I actually tried to look it up and there are not that many Greek films. A lot of them are like the crappy sci-fi based films about like Gorgons or Medusa and whatnot. I think you'd be really neat to look at some of the more I guess primordial myths, like if there was some kind of re weird, creepy aspect of Zeus that they could kind of throw in. I think Greece is just a hotbed where you could pick out a whole bunch of horse. Billy, what do you think?

I'm gonna go with the Amish. I don't know if I've seen many horror films with the Amish, and I kind of would like to see the Amish perspective from like the night of the living dead. 'Cause I kinda know they're, you know, that's kind of where it was filmed up and around some there's some Amish country up there. So th that's what I want to see. What about you, lonely?

So I've answered this not this exact question, but I've given this i the same response for multiple questions, which is Southern Gothic Appalachia, I think, is one of my favorite unexplored pieces of Americana.

I think there's so many deep, deep ties to folk religion and so many deep ties to folklore and witchcraft and There's so many cultural beliefs there that make up a lot of threads of what we know as a contemporary American culture, but we never acknowledge them and we never give them that credit.

And I think that there's just so much potential there to really dig in and do some really good folklore. I know Woman in the Yard gave us a little tiny piece of that, but I want something more serious and darker. I want something with the

same tone of like men or blood on Satan's Claw to be done in an American, you know, Southern Gothic setting. So that's my a selfish, selfish plug that I just desperately need someone to write a Southern Gothic horror that is gritty and dark and scary and not as much as I didn't hate Woman in the Yard, I want something a little bit darker and less hokey. But Mike, what do you have?

So I have a couple. One, there's already a ton of media in this setting and culture, but I will never get enough is New Orleans as a setting or Creole Cajun culture and the bayou stuff like that. I just love that as a setting. And I know it's done a lot, but give me more uh even more. Uh but something that's not enough of

Um, at least it hasn't made its way to America enough. I was trying to think. I know I saw one movie and I the name I couldn't find the the title of it. It was a South African movie about uh

A woman who comes back and had to do with their housemaid and old woman she was taken care of. And that was fine. And then I mean I guess his house would count as African horror, but doesn't even take place in Africa. It just has characters who came from Africa. And that's an amazing movie. I know lonely you're a huge fan of that.

But I want more set in Africa. There's gotta be I can't even imagine how many different cultures and religions and beliefs we could get into there and I I would just like to see more more come out of there. I'd I'd be all in.

Okay, well, I don't know. I feel a little exhausted. Um, that was a doozy of an episode. I haven't felt like this since we did the case match, Mike. But You know, that's all the time. That's all the time we have for tonight. And if you wanna continue this conversation and we're not talking about uh genitalia and we're not talking about feet Here is where you can find us not talking about those two things, right Billy?

Correct. This is Billy D, and you can find me hosting Halloween Babies Podcast. or on Instagram and YouTube under Halloween Babies Podcast. And you can find me, Mike, over on Instagram, Twitter, and Blue Sky at That Horror Teacher, where I try to post a bite-sized movie. With some regularity. Also I'm horror teacher over at Letterbury. pretty good about posting there when I'm watching Lonely horror club. Worry drop. and find my full archive.

Your internet. You've made it to the end of episode seven. Yeah. Call us if you want to leave some night. Call at six one seven. and keep up with our answers. Nobody's horror podcast. love if you could like subscribe or leave a review wherever you get your pot