Episode 75: Cults

So you don't have to do that. in twenty twenty three but Me, that's lonely, and projectile environment, this show features a panel of hosts and rotating guest content experts, tackling the nitty-gritty complex horror topics with the hope of making the genre more approachable for frequent flyers and newbies alike.

The goal of the show is to highlight diverse voices and perspectives in horror, and this is your reminder that there may be discourse on this show that will challenge the way you look at the genre. So let's get ready to get ugly. Broadcasting from Connecticut, USA, I am the ghost with the blog, lonely, and I am joined by the new Nobodies crew, our panel of living dead talking heads.

Broadcasting from North Carolina by way of Jersey, bringing the dad vibe to all things horror. I am Mike, aka That Horror. Broadcasting from Virginia, USA, I am Billy D, the resident musician, handyman, and host of Halloween Babies Podcast. And I am our local physician, Brad. USA. I'm coming in to describe all of the anatomy we got. I'm Kanan, aka Plague Doctor.

Oh my god. If you were to tell lonely Two years ago that I would have to rebrand the entire show with three men. I would have thought y'all were crazy. And maybe we still are. But welcome fucking back everybody. I hope you are thrilled to see some of our new faces. They're new, but not really new.

How are y'all feeling? How are you guys feeling to be back on nobodies on the other side of the chair? Mike, you have been on the most episodes. So what does it feel like to officially be on the roster? On one hand it's like old hat as I've been here with you, but on the other hand it's very scary. Uh but no super excited. Uh super uh I feel like I got promoted, called up to the big league.

Um that makes me very happy. So I'm really excited for what we got going on. Can't wait to hear uh where this is going. I think everyone's gonna like our new format and of course our new friends that are only sort of kind Billy, what do you think? I'm super excited. It gets a bit lonely doing a solo podcast and uh I'm real happy to be uh communicating with all of you lovely people.

And Kanan, you did one episode and I called you and I was like, Do you wanna do this show full time? What was your what just went through your head when you got that message from me? I was excited because Been fully interested in setting up a podcast of my own. And so you guys were my perfect entry into me saying, oh, I have some great opinions. Usually it's for something horrific, bloody, or morbidly.

Kanan is the Wonder Kind in one episode and he's automatically full host. Look at that. I know. It's like nepotism. Something happened in those uh extreme horror episodes. It was like a trauma bond, canon. Black metal veins is I think what sold it for us. What do you think?

I know I know that Projectile Varma didn't like it, but to this day I said that's one of the cleanest pick. Uh reviewed with the U.S. I forgot the other host name, but uh I I still think that Uh well one might say that I have indoctrined you lovely gentlemen into this space. And I feel that is quite fitting for our topic tonight. Mike, what are we diving into tonight for our first episode as a

Uh what are we? A quad? I don't want to say foresome because that has bad connotation that I don't want on the internet. Our our quad, what are we reviewing? What are we talking about tonight? Oh man, that was a professional segue. That's why you're in charge, you're lonely. Uh, tonight we are discussing a topic that runs rampant both in the horror genre and in our realities. We're taking a dive into cult.

And the representations in horror media. Before we get into some of the most iconic cult horror films, let's get into the weeds to define what cults actually are. In modern society we tend to have negative associations with the word cult, but for most of history it didn't have a particularly negative connotation.

According to Britannica and ancient Mediterranean literature, the word cult was used synonymously with the word for a secret or elite club. Beginning in the nineteen sixties in the US, the new definition of cults emerged. Britannica also goes on to outline our modern day definition for cult. Cults are defined as religious groups with some or all of the following characteristics.

A charismatic leader who exercises total control and apocalyptic vision, think doomsday cult, isolation from society, emphasis on a transcendent spiritual experience. Rigid rules governing group members' behavior and the exploitation of members, including sexually and financially.

There are many prominent pseudoscientific cults here in the US, like Nixium and Scientology, along with dozens of radical Christian fundamentalist groups who meet the criteria, including Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Scientology, the Twelve Tribes, and Words of Faith Fellowship. Even if there are still people who believe cults or ritualistic abuse doesn't exist, the research capturing the aftermath on the human mind is pretty well.

Psychological and medical societies have studied the impacts of cognitive behavioral therapy on survivors of Ritualistic abuse describes the trauma typically experienced by long term or generation. And it is characterized by repeated abuse over extended periods of time, often including several physical and sexual abuse, captivity, or brain.

Many cult survivors must receive years of psychiatric and therapeutic treatment for deprogramming to regain their autonomy and return to the And in horror, cults have become a prominent subgenre dating back to basically the era of black and white films and the satanic panic.

Cult horror usually exposes the real psychological terror that can come from fanaticism and manipulation. Thinking of films. way back in the, you know, one of my favorite black and white films, The Seventh Victim, to more recently with Midsummer. These are stories that shine light on human nature. How far we will go to avoid death and the lengths that we go to belong.

So thinking about our opening question, what has your experience been with interacting with or learning about cults and why do you think cults are so often portrayed in horror? And Billy, I'm gonna toss it over to you. So I was raised Southern Baptist, but the congregation we belonged to was pretty innocuous. So not a lot of Bible thumping or dancing in the aisles, just lots of choir practice, shouting out amen, and low-key racism.

Uh, I was also really into yoga for about a decade and it got a little bit weird. I went to um this thing called Yoga Jam Festival. And it involved like a lot of camping and breathing and stretching in unison with hundreds of people up in the mountains of Virginia and uh that got a little bit strange.

Um, but I never felt really comfortable saying Namaste and balancing my chakras. I was just trying to like stay limber. But uh other than that, living the horror lifestyle is the closest thing that comes to being in a cult for me. Um I've watched several documentaries on cults like Bikram, Yogi, Guru, Predator, and Wild, Wild Country, a couple of documentaries on Nixyum and Scientology.

And I think we've all had a bit of experience dealing with cults, even if only on a micro level, growing up and figuring out the inner workings of cliques in high school or playing sports. Even just getting into a hobby can place us on the periphery of something that has the ability to go from fun and engaging to something that might take over your life in an unhealthy way.

We all think we are smart enough to not fall for deceptive ruse, and I think cults as they are portrayed in horror gives the viewer not only a bit of a scare, but also allows us to feel confident that we would never fall for something that seems so blatantly deceptive and controlling. How about you, Mike? Any connections with cult?

It's funny you mentioned the school thing. I d hadn't even thought about this, but you know, as a teacher, um I used to teach middle school and I'd have the same kids for three years in a row, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, so we get pretty close and they as a group used to get pretty close.

And then usually after they left and went to high school they would always start a group chat and I remember one year it was called Cap's Kids Cult which is kinda funny. I just never thought about that until you start thinking about high school. But as far as like me being involved now, I mean unless you count being brought up Catholic you know, kind of peripheral, just a part of it. Um and not really obviously.

I mean, obviously we see a lot of cult like behavior in our country right now, with all the current political landscape, uh And that kind of leads me to why I think culture's so prevalent in horror movies and what makes them so scary. Just and Billy, you kind of referenced this the idea that

someone can devote themselves so entirely to a group or leader that they're willing to sacrifice all morals and every rational thing about themselves just to have acceptance into that group or to get that leader's uh approval is truly terrifying. Um I mean I live down here in the South and the amount of people uh who I know who go to church each Sunday and then turn around and defend violence and hatred every other day of the week is truly stagnant.

I'm both fascinated by that but also terrified by it. So I'm not surprised. Cults are a big part of horror, uh, but I'm thankful that they haven't been a huge part of my life. Kanon, how about you? I've not had too much exposure to cults. Uh we always joked in my high school. group in one of the church systems called Xenox. And uh through the grapevines I heard that they may have tried speaking in tongues and talking to snakes and whatnot. Can't confirm if that

The cults might actually be near me. In the setting of horror films, though, I think the lovely thing they have is that they really encapsulate the concept of the other, wherein people who either In one of those like group theory type settings where it's one tribe versus the other. And it really shows how people can even easily. These are the righteous, these are not. And just uh just in the concept of horror. Central to most which is the slasher versus the

the monster trying to hunt the others and it just fits well in that setting. I think it's really interesting that we've got two people on the mic that are from the south and I find that You know, the South and the Bible Belt has always had such a negative connotation, I think, in the US as a religious hub and

It though our political current political ra reality has kind of overridden that, I would say. It's like not even I feel like it's just a whole country at this point. But regardless, um I I have a weird fascination with cults, I have to be honest.

In the same way I think a lot of people are fascinated with true crime. Cults are like my thing for me. And I guess in a lot of ways, cults and true crime kind of have a Venn diagram that that often, you know, intersect with each other. But as many listeners already know, I

have a deep interest in religion, faith, belief. And I think cults are such a great example of what happens when belief takes things too far. And it's a great example of the sheer power of belief and belonging on who we become and how it shapes. Our identity. I think it all started when I was a teenager. It's like therapy. It all started Seventeen years ago. No. Um, I definitely became so deeply enthralled with Colts at that point because I was watching a ton of documentaries.

One of my favorite TV series I've ever seen is an anthology put out by A and E called Cults in Extreme Belief. And it highlights some of the most prominent cults that are still active with like hundreds of thousands of members. And I think cultures such a topic for horror because they subvert subvert something that is typically a huge part of people's lives and that's religion. So it subverts this idea of religion as being a an evil thing and

It's kind of like looking in the mirror in some ways. Cults have this like taboo to them and people feel like they're watching or seeing something that shouldn't be seen. So I think it's It's also interesting to start teasing out. what defines a cult film and what doesn't, which I think takes us into the next question, which is what cult films do you think stand out to you as pillars of the genre? And I'm gonna I'm gonna flip I'm gonna flip our our

system here. I'm gonna start with Kanan. Can I what do you think are some pillars of the sub genre? So not my favorite, but one that Well, from a point of view type film is The Sacrament. That one I thought, I mean, it's nowhere near as close as what actually happened in Jonestown, but it brought it. So I thought that one was the closest to what m someone might expect in real life. Um, I'm also a big fan of the

a cult and it's one of those cults that slowly tricks you in and whatnot. Mids And then finally my favorite. make fun of Lonely Four would be hereditary. The the absolute lonely. Well I was gonna echo. I'm not gonna acknowledge Of all the storylines in hereditary, I think the cult one is the weakest, but.

conversation for another day. Or arguably a conversation that's already been had. But I wanted to echo The Sacrament in Midsummer. As I was doing these notes, those were two films that stood out for me as well. And they're more recent additions to the subgenre, right? But and I talk about the Sacrament so often because that film

I went into that film and I I don't know why. I literally everyone else watching it with me knew it was like a mirror to Jor Jonestown. I didn't. So when they started pulling out the Kool Aid, I was like, Oh no. Oh no. And then they're like running with the camera. It still got me. It still got me. And I think, you know, Eli Ralph hasn't done a lot of great stuff, but I love the sacrament. And Midsummer is a great addition too. The only other one that I kind of threw out there was Suspiria.

And I kinda newfound appreciation for Spiria after we did it at Remake Reframe. But the I think both. versions are a good take, but especially if we think about the original Suspiria as like a pillar of the Giallo subgenre and also of cults. I think that kind of stands out for me. But I think, Billy, you probably will take it back to the roots. Do you have a an older cult film that you think stands out?

Yeah, so uh when I think of cult films, um Rosemary's Baby pops up because that was like one of the first cultish films I experienced. Um I mean I was probably like six or seven, so it's been well over forty years since I've seen it. And uh that whole ending scene where there's like the alleged baby reveal, which I watched it a few years ago and I would have sworn that you see a demon baby, but like I guess it's just the power of suggestion.

Um something else that's a little more modern is Martyrs. And that really freaked me out and blew my mind as well as appealing to the Gorehound in me. And uh yeah, so those two, a little bit of old, a little bit of new. What films are at the top of your mouth? There might.

Oh man, I just watched Martyrs for the first time like two years ago. That that movie scared me quite a bit. Um, yeah, actually I put Rosemary's Baby as well. Uh'cause I was trying to think like what's the first movie I probably saw with that. And I vividly remember watching that movie, it is Sleepover. uh in like middle school, which is a really strange choice now. Like in hindsight, that that's a pretty deep, slow moving movie. Like usually you watch Predator.

Um we all slept great after, let me tell you. Uh but yeah, Wicker Man the original I had that down too. A couple more recent ones I thought of was The Invitation. Uh if you guys have seen that one, pretty memorable final scene or final shot um from that one. Uh Jackals. maybe a slightly lesser known one, um, is good. And then I espoused my love for the Lodge over and over again on the neon cage match, which kinda culted J.

recovery and cultist. Um yeah. But still factors into it and the scariest part The images uh of the cult That she was a part of and how it's affecting her in that movie.

I as I was going through the suggestions for this, I have so much trouble teasing out like what like where does the line between like religious horror and cult horror like end and begin. Because some of the films are clear As a religious horror film, and then also folklore gets thrown in here because there's a bunch of films, and I think the uh I'm gonna suggest a film later on tonight, and I think you guys are gonna say, like, actually lonely lots of folklore, but it I think it's just

They're all they're like neighbors in the same village of of theming, I would think. But what if sorry, I was just saying lots of movies have multiple I think those two in particular do like kind of yin and yang together very often. So I'm not surprised that uh they I mean Wickerman is a perfect example of that, right? Yeah, because Wickerman is definitely a folk horror as well. And whereas like

I the only example that's coming to mind right now for me, and it's a horrible example, is like Immaculate, for example, is a total religious horror film. Like there's no thing I mean, would you say that was a cult film? I wouldn't, right? No, definitely not.

All right. Well, let's get into the coroner's report. Uh this is a interactive po portion of our show where our audience can jump in to give their feedback and be featured in the episode, even if they can't be on the mic with us in real time. So to be featured in the coroner's report, you can comment on Instagram or give us a call or text at our usual number. And this week we asked our listeners what makes cults scary?

Why are cults featured in horror films so frequently? And what are your favorite cult horror films? And I kept waiting for the usual suspects to respond, and they did not, so I will be counting on you guys next time. But thankfully, someone I may or may not be related to uh chimed in here. This was B Goff seventy nine and he said and I knew he would say

The Empty Man was his first movie. I knew that was gonna be that. Uh he also brought up the invitation, and then he said he had a soft spot for the night. Uh so lots of good ones there. Um I personally remember when I saw the Ninth Get I would never have thought of that actually until he mentioned it. Uh I remember um do you guys remember that movie with Johnny Depp? Um I think it's a Roman book.

Yeah, I um it it was a strange one. I went and saw that with my mom. Um and there's I believe there's like a really uncomfortable sex scene in it. There is. There is. Canon, have you seen that one? Uh is it like early Johnny D? nineties. Uh I'm gonna guess it is nineties, later nineties, early two thousands.

Uh I what I remember most about that movie and the effect it had on me is that he was like a a book collector. Like he would go try to find original manuscripts of certain books and I thought that was so cool I actually wanted that job for a little while after I saw that. Despite all the terrible things that happened later.

Um, I just thought that was like a really cool job, like going to cool obscure European locations to find old books in dusty old buildings out. I thought that was super cool. But anyway, so that's the coroners report again. Please respond on Instagram. Uh let us know what you think. We love hearing from you guys. And uh appreciate BGOF79 chiming in here at the last minute. All right, I think we're ready to start talking some movies here. Kanan, what do we got up tonight for our first?

I am unironically excited. Our first film.

But the first phone we'll be discussing. Which reads Shortly after delivering the is seemingly linked to a group of mysterious hooded figures. So before today's podcast, who has seen the void? Oh I had for sure, and I was equally excited as you were to talk about it this evening. Yes, I'd seen it. This is probably my third or fourth time watching it. And I am the odd man out. I had never seen this. And

For the listeners, what you don't know is we we run a very uh a fair society here at Nobodies. We voted on these films and the the crew felt strongly that about this film. They a hundred percent wanted this film on the show. So I was like, we have to do it. And I watched it. And uh it was an experience. So whenever you're ready to hear from me. Oh, but but you know, maybe Mike, you said you've seen this before. We know Kanad likes this one. So what was your what are your opening thoughts, Mike?

All right, so I see I saw it for the first time a few years ago and I was blown away by it. But I was also like, uh, I'm not sure everything holds together. So I was excited to watch it again. First I want to shout out the director where it's actually

But Steven Kostansky is one of the directors. He went on to give us Psycho Gorman a couple years later. Another one of my favorites is one of the silliest movies I've ever seen, but I absolutely love it. And I found out uh and kind of research and he's the ma he's a makeup effects artist, which When you see this move.

But he did the effects for In a Violent Nature from last year, if anyone saw that. And that had some of the best kills of the year and some of the best effects. So I wanted to give Steve Kostansky a a shout out here. Beyond just the void. Huh, beyond the void. See what I did there? I think what I love about this movie, um, and we'll get into the cult stuff I'm sure later, but it just has a chaotic energy. Like wild shit is happening all the time.

And it does not take long to get going. Uh I think when I first reviewed it uh on Instagram I said it was the poster child for well this. Um I c I clocked one in particular scene where there's one moment where and I'm gonna spoil some things here's uh I'll try to keep it sort of vague though. What we spoil around here, right? What am I talking about?

Um there is a giant like thing esque monstrosity attacking a cop while two goo two dudes with guns have entered this hospital and are trying to kill some apparent lunatic who had just killed a doctor.

While the hospital is also surrounded by knife wielding cul cultists. And like this is all happening in like ten seconds. It is absolutely bonkers. Um so I think that's what I like most about it. The effects are amazing, and I'm sure we can get into those a little bit later. But just in general, the chaotic Um you just don't know what's gonna happen next thing about this movie is what makes me love it so much.

So I wanted to follow Mike just for a quick question and then I will I will give you all what you're waiting for, which are my opening thoughts. But Mike, did you get Silent Hill vibes from this at all? Yes, especially I think in the monster. I think there was the radios and the like the way that the light changed, like it got how the whole film got darker as time went on.

Almost it reminded me of like the scenes in Silent Hill, like when the when the darkness comes in and the radios turn on. Yeah, that's a good point. Maybe I was just'cause I had seen um Return to Silent Hill recently and I have I just wanted so much more from that film. So I'm just trying to see Silent Hill everywhere I go. But um my opening thoughts on this. So I know

Everyone was waiting for this review from me because this was a sci-fi. It is a sci-fi, I would say. Definitely not as sci-fi as um, you know, some of the shit Billy has made me watch throughout the years, but it there's still some sci-fi here. And I'll say the positives, I really thought the imagery in this was really great. Um, you know, thinking about the colors, the way the monsters are portrayed, some of the shots, this the scenery is really, really great.

And the the atmosphere is so solid. Like whoever made the film really knew what they were going for. and knew what vibe they were trying to sell, but and Billy's gonna fall out of his chair'cause he's gonna be hearing this from me again. The lack of explanation about anything in the film Is real, it becomes disjointed. So, Mike, you saw the positives in that and said, like, it has a chaotic energy, which is like valid. For me, it's just like

What the fuck is happening here? Like we're just throwing everything at the wall and trying to piece it together. And we'll get into the cult, but they don't really explain a lot about the cult or where it came from or anything. I just kinda wanted a little bit more rules and explanation on where that was going. I also kind of felt like there were too many characters. This was a single location film and we had all of these characters and we never learn

anything about any of them really. We only learn a little bit about our um ma like our main character and and even that is very, very minimal. But

So I mean, I know that came across pretty negative, but I didn't think super negatively about this film. I thought it was it had a solid aesthetic to it. I just I I'm once again, maybe not the target audience, but Billy, are you you s did you hang up after hearing another lonely rant about things not making sense? No, no, I can I can totally agree with you on that and the the character development is like my my main

Real really only issue with this, but you mentioned Silent Hill. And if you go over to YouTube, there's a making of video. Um the two directors, writers, directors, talk about how the idea for this came with them sitting around talking about the Silent Hill video game. And cosmic horror and how they wanted to step away from the tongue-in-cheek genre films that they had previously made and switch over to do a full-on horror.

And they had the production shut down twice due to funding and they only ended up with a twenty-day shooting schedule, which I think they did a pretty impressive job doing that. And it kind of comes across to me as like a love letter to the thing, the Prince of Darkness, Hellraiser, The Beyond, and Event Horizon.

And I know a lot of people on the reviews describe it as derivative and past each of much better films, but I think it does a great job at creating the mood of bringing the overall themes of Eldritch horror to the screen. Um, things like, you know, fear, awe, and helplessness. the discovery of appalling truth, the erosion of reality, and preoccup preoccupation with visceral textures.

And they seem to be aiming for something far beyond just the display of gruesome gore and bloody gags, but also I think the film taps into the existential dilemma of human existence and the contemplation of mankind's place. in the vast, comfortless universe revealed by modern science. How's that for ya? It's dark and it's ambitious, and while not perfect, especially in regards to yes, the storytelling and character development.

Uh there's an uncertain vague understanding that kind of permeates and I think it kind of adds that cosmic horror charm. So I'm gonna bounce back to something you said lonely too, because I think you actually have valid creditors. 'Cause a lot of what you said I thought the first time I saw it too, which is why I wasn't like, This is a ten out of ten. Like, um, I will say the second time through, I feel like

I don't know if I just ignored it the first time. I picked up on a few more things and it made a little bit more sense'cause I guess I already knew all the while this was gonna happen. But yeah, my my biggest thing is like it's not really clear why the cult is following this guy at any point. Um And again, I guess that does capture that scary mind.

the loyalty to a cult leader. I just don't know what they're getting out of it. I don't know what the the point is eventually. And I am not a huge lovecrafty cosmic horror guy and it gets a little too cosmic and lovecrafty for me at the end. But no, I think I think your uh criticisms are very valid. Alright, Kanan, this is your your movie though. I'm looking to hear why do you love this movie so much?

I'm I'm actually going to address some of Lumely's criticisms because I also think that they're valid. My big thing for me, especially Eldritch Horror is that it tells you just enough to get a premise of the film. Like it doesn't explain everything, but like certain Can tell you more if you're I'm not saying no one's not paying attention, but when you re

It gives a lot of background to it. The one that I always like to tell people is um the doctor is reflecting. And if this is in the middle of the film, but you hear the doctor's voice reflecting on something and he says, You'd be surprised what people find in the darkness when they're seeking. And so that already gives you the general premise of he found other cult followers in the local community who were equally broken just like he was and were willing to.

so that they could get something out of it. And like I said, I acknowledge not everything is answered, but it gives you just enough for a semblance of a plot to keep people going. My big thing Is that if I can suspend my disbelief and get pulled into a story, that's all it takes for me. Not everything has to be answered. A lot of the horror podcasts I listen to.

in them. He points out things that I never would have even conceived that he is 100% right, but I just get so engrossed in the film, just like The Void. And it just goes all past me because I'm just sitting

So in general, why was the film good for me? Big fan of Eldritch horror. Uh even though they don't deeply, I think they give enough of a personality to the characters to connect like all of the characters I thought were lovely and had their own little personality quirks like the naive nurse, um the her male to be scared, the main character and his issues with his wife slash ex-wife. I always forget what their relationship is. I thought those had enough base

Have the cohesive story. And then just like Billy said, I'm not a gore hound, but my God, the way they push that film, it throws me. Where it's like you're diving into the deep dark escape and I thought the ending was pretty satisfactory for So uh for for people like me who are like, okay, with Eldritch, no, no, no, no. Simply no. Um, let's talk a little bit about what is actually.

Been happening in this film, so we can segue into the cult, like the actual cult that's happening here. Because underneath all these. all of these details. There is a cult in here somewhere. Um, so the premise is we have these folks try the single location horror, we have these different folks all trapped in this hospital because

There's this hospital that's being cleared out basically, like it's going under commission or something. It's not gonna work anymore. So there's only a few people in this hospital. They're in like this small town we're to assume, a rural town. And they all end up in this place because they're being stalked. Like these cult members are are in the the community. It's late at night and they're being like basically pushed to this building. Like they're running away and they all end up here.

So you have a couple of different people who in interact with the cult a different way or groups of people. So we have, you know, the main character, the police officer, his wife that's a nurse in the hospital, there's a nurse in training, there's a pregnant girl and her grandpa, and then our two people from the farm. And along the way we find, as Mike alluded to, this massive monster in the basement.

And we also have a cult here that is somehow interacting with all these events, orchestrating all of these events. So to be honest with you guys, I have no idea what this cult was or what they were trying to do. Was it just like summon the monster? Were they is it one of those like imm immortality things? I have no freaking idea. Cause they were also trying to like, I don't know, like steal a baby.

Or or impregnate someone and have them have a baby. I don't know. Mike, did you what did you get? What what were your readings on the cult in this film? I don't know that I can answer entirely what they get out of it, but what I will say is and what makes this an effective cult horror movie to me is the cultists are freaking terrifying. Like they just wear these white hoods, which you know there's all sorts of things going on there. Um with the triangle black triangle.

Uh and they're usually carrying knots. And there's a couple great scenes where they just seem to multiply and there's all of a sudden a whole lot of them and they're all hand standing with like their arm out with the knife. It kind of reminded me of like the creepiness of the weapons kids. uh in the movie weapons when they kinda run with that weird like Naruto slash airplane run. Um

This all kind of look it was very creepy. But I I don't know that I can answer the question as to what they're hoping to get. But this is what I thought though actually made me think of one of my favorite quotes, which I'll say in a second. But in a lot of the cults, I feel like, you know, they're promised certain things and then of course they don't get Uh it was a little sillier in this movie because I think they thought they were gonna get

Uh to live forever is kind of what I thought. Maybe they thought they were gonna get out of the uh the cult. Um, but for example, one of them is right down there with that giant monster and the giant monster squashes his head like a grapefruit and he's dead. Um, so he did not get what he wanted from the cult clearly. Um

Which reminds me of this quote that I used to teach. I when I used to teach Animal Farm, I used to bring up this quote from Carl Sagan, and I think it's very relevant here, and you maybe heard it before, but I think it really applies to cults in both of the movies we read or we watched, I think are are related to this quote. It says uh one of the saddest lessons of history is this. If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle.

We no longer are interested in finding out the truth that Bimboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you've given the Charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. And again, I think this applies to our second movie we get to as well, but I just thought about these poor cultists who were again, I assume trying to get to live forever and get absolutely nothing they're promised to end up

So Kanon, am I reading any of that correctly, you think? Partially. So the central figure in the cult is the doctor. And for him, he had a trauma in his life and he is trying to Uh lonely. I don't I try not to put as many spoils. But the baby that is involved in the film is actually a vessel in order to resurrect the person that the doctor lost in his trauma. And of course that goes horrific horrifically.

Of course it will. The way I interpreted the cultist is the doctor had this trauma, he found these dark forces, he learned some cute tricks with the dark forces, which is why you see all Before they see the final villain. And with all the things that he learned, he pulls other people who've had similar traumas, promises them certain things, and if he actually would have gotten his way, he might. But unfortunately just a little bit.

Yeah, that's kind of what I uh got from it there, Kanan. Um yeah, the doctor, it's like he's looking to cure his pain through transcendence. But he ends up wielding a power that's beyond his comprehension. And I think that kind of adds in the ability that the film puts it upon us to we don't really know what's going on because the people trying to wield this power don't really.

Was there gore in this? Why saw blending together? Lots of gore. Lots of gore. And on a quick side note, did anyone recognize the nurse in training? No. Knive Chow. Oh my God, you're right. You're right. Yeah, from Scott Pilgrim. Oh. Well she was cute in this. I liked her character. I wish she didn't m meet the ending that she did. I felt like she tried her best given the situation. She also I love when people have human reactions in these kinds of films.

Because again, like imagine if you witnessed an elders horror, like with tentacles and shit, I would have reacted the way she did too. But Let's talk about some of the gore in the SFX, which is really impressive. I will ignore Mike's prior comments on in a violent nature, which I think is a dumpster fire, but Wait. Sorry. Conversation another day. Continue.

We can save that one. Uh listeners, if you want to hear us review a violent in a violent nature, pick a category that fits under. The category can be trash. Um enough. I will stop bullying. Mike. Canon, tell us about some of the special effects in this and the the monster. What do you where do you place this? Do you think these are good? Do you think these are strong? Quick tangent. Listeners, please tell us if you want to. either in a violent nature hereditary. I think it

But getting back to the film, um I was uh I mean honestly, I I liked it because I'm not someone that actually I'm a Neanderthal when it comes to films. I just get pulled. Cinematography uh effects, if they're good enough. disbelief. It wasn't until I watched the 24, 28 minute uh making of film that they currently still have available on YouTube that I really appreciated.

And when you look at it in the film, you you appreciate it more for the fact that I mean they were just dumping buckets of blood over people in a prosthetic monster suit and just going with it in one take. I mean ju What do you think, Mike? Oh yeah.

because I just didn't know I knew nothing about the movie, so when all of a sudden that monster um it has all the tentacles and everyone's like, whoa, this is very Thing esque and Thing is one of my all-time favorite movies as I'm sure it is for many of us.

And it's very clear it's it's a nod to that and to Rob Butine's work in that as well. But yeah, for you just don't see that very often and also knowing that not a lot of money in went into this movie to be able to come out with what they did and I think they're also very smart with the lighting. Like it looks great.

But probably not so great, so it's a little bit dark at times, but it's not annoyingly dark. Like I thought they were very smart with that about how much they showed you and when they did hold back a little bit, because they show you quite a bit, but not everything. And it probably you know hid some of the ring.

So let's take this one home as much as I know. You you lovely people would love to talk about tentacles for another for the rest of the episode. We endlessly we endless tentacles. Um let's add our closing thoughts. I mean, I think if you I think it's worth watching if you're a fan of practical effects and if you don't mind a little bit of chaos.

I didn't hate this film at all. I gave it a three out of five. Um, it just wasn't I would wouldn't rewatch it and I wouldn't reach for it, but to that defense, this would never be a film I would have sought out on my own either. So it's middle of the road for me.

I've definitely seen worse, especially in the sci fi y you know, doomsday sub genre. But Billy, what say you? What are your closing thoughts on the void? Well, first off, I'm very proud of you lonely. I was worried that you were gonna give this like one star. Um, but yeah, I I say whether you choose to look like deep into it or and just enjoy it for the freak out love affair with classic cosmic body horror that it is, uh I don't think you can go wrong with it. Uh put it on, then watch the thing.

And uh I mean it's got atmosphere, gore kills creatures, and a dark sense of hopelessness and dread, which I love. What about you, Kanan? It's in my top ten films. I watched it. That really brought me back into horror. like the void. Um it follows led into the void and led into a couple other films for me. Uh I am very biased. The movie's a 9.5 out of 10 for me. Some people complain

the characters like the diction that they use. And I could see that breaking someone's um immersion. But for me, it just recommend it to people. Like I was I and make their own opinion on it. Mike, finish us.

Yeah, I agree. This is one that like after I saw it I just started recommending to other people'cause it's a probably a little bit lesser known unless you're really a hardcore horror fan. Uh and I know a lot of people who love the thing and so like, Well what else should I watch? Well here's here's a pretty good way to go from there. So

Yeah, definitely uh a great one. It rises up in my uh rankings uh every time. I've watched it now twice and I am certain I will watch it again uh in the not too distant future.

Welcome to the first installment of the Epic Up. A segment where I, that horror teacher, attempt to educate you on how to find a shred of light in the darkest abyss. The rules for our optimistic exercise are simple. I will choose a movie that is thematically related to tonight's episode, though not appreciated by those who have seen it. Specifically, the movie must have an IMDB rating less than four point five, and despite this, I shall endeavor to find something to love about this movie.

Might be a performance, might be a cool shot, might be an effect, might be the score, or it might be a short run. To dare is to do, and I dare all of you to watch these films and find the good in something otherwise bad. Every film that gets made and distributed is a little miracle, from the biggest blockbuster to the cheapest to be original. There's something to love in everyone, everything, so let's find it and celebrate.

I am not alone in this exercise. Joining me tonight is our friend Lonely. Hello Lonely. It's me, I'm here. I'm ready to be positive, which doesn't come naturally for me. So this is really it's quite the exercise for me, Mike. Well, and I have certainly challenged you in some of the media we will be looking at regularly in the series. Um so the idea for this segment, since this is our first one, I wanted to kind of explain its genesis.

Came simply from the fact that I am an annoyingly optimistic person in my real life. Uh I try not to let myself get down or catastrophize a situation. Don't always succeed, but that's the goal. Uh sometimes this is a problem being annoyingly optimistic. Um but more times than not, I think it's a healthy way to look at the world. So I wanted to try to apply that to movies.

Um, now that may not come a bit of a surprise to people because I don't think I've ever been on a nobody's episode and not mentioned how much I hate the movie Cinema Rink. However Even I can admit that the first fifteen minutes of that movie uh had me. It was fascinating, I was scared.

It's just unfortunate the movie continued for another thousand minutes or so. At least that's how many lifetimes it felt like. But anyway, let's get started on our media tonight. Let's force ourselves to be positive. You ready, lonely? I'm so ready and maybe one day we'll stop talking about Skinmarink, but clearly it's not this season. But onward and upward. It is not this season.

All right, so without further ado, let's get into tonight's movie. Tonight's movie is called Conjuring the Cult from 2024. It's directed by Calvin Morey McCarthy, and it stars Neil Green, Alyssa Dowling, and China Ray Shirt. And it boasts a robust three point nine rating on IMDB with one thousand ratings. The IMDB synopsis is as follows after finding that his daughter's bloodied body, David joins a support group, but a cult offers to resurrect her.

His choices will determine not only his fate, but his daughter's soul. All right, lonely. Let me hear your opening thoughts. What did you think of this movie I had never heard of until I looked it up? So this is definitely I didn't even check how deep of a cut this one is. Maybe I'll I'll pull it up as I'm talking. But I started this film. It's on Tubi. And I got maybe 15 minutes into it and it was so B movie esque.

I had to I had to put it down. I was like, oh boy, this is gonna be a rough one. I knew it was gonna be a rough one. This is actually this is a deep cut, Mike, FYI, less than a 1k on IMDB. So very deep cut. But when I sat down the second time to watch it, I like committed to the bit and I watched it all the way through and I tried to take off like my my goggles and focus on it as its premise as a B movie.

And there were some parts of this that I felt were interesting. I think there are roots of a good film here. But overall, th it's it's not the best. We'll we'll say that.

I would I we're gonna have a great conversation about it because there are so many plot holes that I think need to be addressed. I know we're gonna talk about the ending, which I thought was pretty punchy. I thought it was quite a little save, but not definitely not the best thing I've ever seen. Not the worst to be film I've ever seen.

But definitely not the best eyeler. So I know I'm very wishy-washy with that answer because I gave I gave this about a two o two out of five, but there were some bright. I also felt it was a two out of five, but I heard some optimism in there, so we're gonna find the optimism.

My just opening thought is generally it's never a good thing when you put the word conjuring complete with the exact same font as the conjuring in your title, clearly hoping that someone accidentally watches your movie think it's part of the franchise, which was clearly the marketing plan here. And has absolutely So that's generally not a good idea. And I I echo a lot of what you said. There there is some good things we'll get to here in a second, but overall, yeah, it may not be the best.

But does it fit our theme as advertised? This after all is the cult episode. Um, in your opinion, did you think that it would fit in a cult horror movie? I mean, kind of. Not entirely. Because I think so just to get into a couple of the plot points, there are some witches here. And we're I guess we're to assume that they're a cult. Technically a group of witches is usually called a coven, not a cult.

And we don't really learn about the religion or whatever it is that they are worshiping. Like there's no like deity that we learn about or like organized practices that would make them a cult, in my opinion. It's more so just a group of people. Doing undead people magic? Question mark? Unclear. Unclear. I mean I guess it fits the theme overall, just like, yeah, sure, it's adjacent enough for it for like I said, a B movie to be original. Actually it's not to be original, I think.

Um, but yeah, I don't I think not really, but it it's enough. If it's the bill enough, what do you think? Yeah, it's funny you say the witches thing, because in my notes I wrote maybe we should rename this conjuring the craft.

Because the cult that does exist looked like they were straight out of the craft. Um, the way they were dressed and the way they acted and such. And they were also given uh Lost Boys vampire vibes in the first scene, which was very cool in nineteen eighty seven, less so in two thousand twenty four. So yeah, I mean, like I said, there is a cult. There the rules of said cult, the reason behind. There's a lot of questions about all that. But I mean, I guess technically.

Um, so the next question we always like to ask is does this film deserve its rating? It was three point nine on IMDB. We both kind of already answered that, I suppose. We both said two out of five, so I think yeah, that's about right. Maybe we are slightly above the average. Uh you agree? Oh yeah, this definitely is firmly where it should be. All right. So now comes the real work. Can we find something very specific to be epically epically optimistic about? Easy for me to say.

And a reason maybe someone should see this. So I'm gonna kinda throw some s some parts of the movies at you and you tell me whether you think this is something to be optimistic about. So the first one, how about the performances or the act? Couldn't say that with a straight face. What do you think of the acting?

So there were there was some struggling happening here with a lot of the cast'cause a lot of these folks are clearly not actors. I think for a B movie, the main character, what the hell is his name? It's not Paul, is it? The dad? David. David maybe. It's a white man name, obviously. Um, and his wife are particularly so David's okay. The wife is very, very bad, and I think Masha is okay.

So I think the two leads, Masha and the Dead, are are okay. They I've definitely seen worse and there's actually worse in the film around it. So I mean it's not terrible. I think when we get to the climax with Masha, her inter her interview. I don't know why I'm about to say the word interview. When we get to the climax with Masha, her acting is quite good, I think, in the last like 10-15 minutes.

Yeah, so we're pretty aligned on that. I'm gonna say the acting is not gonna be what we're eventually ep epically optimistic about. Um but I did say that I thought the Masha character towards the end, that's like a row, I thought she was actually pretty good. I actually thought the dad was terrible. Particularly in the beginning, he got a little better. Um, he was unique. I've never seen anyone quite like him. He looked very regular person, um, but

So that's probably not what to be optimistic about. Let's talk story. Um do you think the story classifies this movie as something to be optimistic about? Because I can see the rest of the categories in front of me. Yes, I do think this is where I would say there is a bright spot. So can we are we gonna go spoilers? Yeah, I think we kinda have to. So if you were dying to watch Conjuring, I almost said Conjuring the Craft, Conjuring the Cult, we're gonna spoil it for

So we find out that, you know, his daughter has committed suicide. That's in the first few minutes of the film. And the film follows him like Basically coming to terms with that, he goes to the support group, he meets some witches who obviously are not conspicuously dressed at all, like they're wearing all black and have giant hats and totally normal. Of course

Tot totally adorable uh occurrence at a in a support group, but whatever. So he and he meets these young women and eventually gets involved in like some Ouija board shit, like comes to a seance type thing with his daughter's diary. And he basically does a ritual to bring his daughter back from the dead.

Along the way we find out some weird shit about our main character. He there's like a couple side comments. I don't know if you caught them, Mike, that are really interesting and kind of hint to what's going on. So there's the First scene where he is having dreams about his daughter. This is a recurring theme in the film. And in that scene he walks by his daughter changing in her room and it kind of like surprises her.

And that was kind of weird. That stood out to me. Um, he's going through her box of things to find her diary and there's a pair of her underwear in there conveniently. Listeners, are you catching where this is going? The ex-wife makes a comment that was literally, you're not trying to contact Masha's friends again, are you? That's weird. That's a little strange.

So what we ultimately find out is that he had been molesting his daughter for most of his life most of her life, and that is why she ultimately takes her own life. And at the end of the film, when she comes back from the dead, kind of a la pet cemetery, she remembers everything and basically enacts her revenge.

in a really um what I think is a pretty good bloody little scene. So I think the story was a redemption point in that. I remember texting you when I finished this. I was like the ending is quite dark. Quite interesting because you would never guess that this goofy movie would have such a sinister ending. But that's my thought on the story. What do you think?

Yeah, I think we can put this in in the in the group of optimistic things here. I just wrote the end of this movie's fucking nuts. I can't say it makes sense, but Uh and it's definitely memorable. I mean, he literally gives rebirth to his own daughter whom he abused at the end. And it's r like you said, really bloody and memorable. Uh and actually the effects of that were decent enough. Um so yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But I would

It's the kind of thing you'd be interested to see this story in more capable hands or with a bigger budget, sort of thing, because it's an interesting idea, at least. So I'll give it credit for that, and maybe. more uh if they ever tried to do something like this again. So we'll say maybe that is part of the optimism. Uh up next I'm gonna talk about scares and effects and I'm gonna

Spoil it, I think this is one of the optimistic things. So I'll start here. First though, I want to say it is not the set design because the kitchen wallpaper that this man has in his house is the scariest thing in the whole film. I don't know if you clocked that, but if some reason it

messed with me every time I saw it was very, very ugly. Um so that It was just ugly. It was just it was awful. It was so awful. Like no human would have that in their house. It was just it just stood out to me. I'm weird. I did think um Hunchback zombie Masha, uh who who appears several times in the movie was sort of creepy. And I have to give credit, I clocked it 44 minutes into the movie. There is a solid triple jump scale.

That I would say for nothing else this would be my winner for what's optimistic about it. Uh the creepy aforementioned hunchback Zomba Masha peeks around the corner of the door.

It's kinda creepy, but then immediately appears behind him with like that's you know very trite, you know, open mouth, scary thing. And then he wakes from his dream and then and she's immediately at the foot of his bed and it was like boom, boom, boom. And I gotta say it kinda worked on me. It was a pretty good jump scare, even though it was like stereo.

So there are things maybe the effects aren't great, but there was at least a couple scares, creepyish things. What'd you think about the scares effects? Anything work on you or my silly? No, no. I think some of the jump scares were were good for what it was going for. The only thing I'll mention that you haven't already hit is the practical effects in the ending. Where basically, um zomb the is she a zombie at that point? Masha is reborn again.

through someone's stomach. Was it the dad's stomach? Yeah, it was the dad. So the practical effects on that are pretty cool. Like for like I said, a low budget film, you could tell it's all practical effects and it looks quite quite good, in my opinion, for for what we're going for. So I would say that's a bright spot. All right.

Uh the only other thing I noted that might be worth talking about I the score. I've wrote that the score was doing a lot of the heavy lifting in this movie, um, because other parts weren't good. There's nothing original about the score, but the you know the stings to indicate something scary is happening. They effectively did that. So credit where credit's due.

And then cinematography, no, this is not a reason to watch this movie, in my opinion. There were random close ups, a swinging camera sometimes is very silly, almost evil deaddy, but not in that campy way on purpose. Uh did you think anything about the cinematography or score was? Worth noting. And I think

There are just so much ab so much about it that you're you're so focused on how ridiculous the acting is. Like I didn't even pay attention to the score in cinematography. I was too busy trying to figure out what the heck was going on. So none of those stood out to me e either way.

Alright, but here we go. We had a movie. It's a 3.9 that is not good and we have found several things we can be epically optimistic about. Yeah, there's a couple jump scares, decent effect. And an absolutely bonkers final act that are worth a watch if you're into this sort of thing. It's like I said, it's not the worst movie we've ever seen. So look, we can be optimistic even about terrible things. We've done

Any final thoughts about this one? We've already done a couple couple films for your segment and this is far from the worst we've for your segment so far. So maybe So yeah maybe here but we will find something positive so thank you all for putting on your roast colored glasses with me and trying to find the inner beauty of this movie. Remember movies are miracles let's find a way to celebrate them all. See you next time on the epic Well,

This is where like if listeners just picture me like sitting up at the table and like cracking my knuckles because now now we're gonna talk about a film that I love. So for the second film tonight, this is a film I have been dying to get on the show. I could not find a reason to talk about it and now it is here and that is one of my favorite horror films, The Other Lamb twenty nineteen.

A girl born into an all-female cult led by a man in their compound begins to question his teachings in her own reality. Oh boy. Um I love this film. I loved it when I first watched it. And I have this weird thing. Listeners might remember me watching this saying or excuse me, saying this about sinners during our last episode.

I'm like afraid to rewatch sinners because I loved it so much and I'm afraid the rewatch won't hold up. I had the same experience with other lamb. I had not rewatched it since I saw it the first time because I was so afraid I wasn't gonna love it as much as I did. And I loved it even more on my rewatch. I freaking love this film.

And I just the one last opening thought I will give is just this quote from the film that just like, ugh, it stood out to me so much and it's There's two characters speaking and one of them says, you know, why do you stay? And the reply is, I've been here for so long, I don't even know who I am anymore. And it is just such a heartbreaking quote'cause I feel like this is not only a cult film, but this is also a really Poignant horror film about the cycle of abuse. It's femme led, femme directed.

I will go on and on at some point. But Mike, what are your opening thoughts on The Other Lamb? Okay, so I guess I'm gonna be the bad guy on this one. Oh no. I I don't think it's a bad movie. Let me start off by saying that.

And I will say a couple other very, very positive things about it. The score is absolutely phenomenal. Uh I am an audiophile musician at heart. Um and John Williams, the composer, is one of my heroes. So I I pay attention to score. Also the scenery and some of the shops. are absolutely beautiful and also disorienting. There was one shot in particular that I tracked

Um, where our main character, Sella, is uh asleep on the cliff. Uh, she's uh fall asleep overnight on the cliff for a reason, a ritual reason. Um And there's some like weird cam work. It's almost like that uh that uh psycho shot where the guy falls down the stairs. I don't know if y'all remember that one. Um but it's very disorienting. So there's a lot of great work being done. I just the story to me was just not original enough to me. Like it was just

Very slow at first. And it's that and and they did a good job of it, but it's that typical you know, the the cult leader is this piece of shit standing for Jesus. I mean, that's just kinda what he is. They call him the shepherd, but he looks like I mean

terrible, he's an awful person. He prays upon these vulnerable women and young girls. Um and I think they portray all that very well. I just didn't feel like there's anything particular new. I feel like that's I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I've seen too many other things like that. So that part I didn't love and it's just I'm not it's I'm not the guy for artsy and kinda esoteric horror and I thought there was a little bit too much of that.

Kind of a lot of, you know, staring off in hushed whispers and that sort of thing, which uh if you listened to the Neon Cage match last year you know is not my favorite thing in the world. But um so again, I'm not saying this is a bad movie, it just wasn't my favorite thing. There was a lot of great things about it but

I don't know. It's it's it's there. I'm I've seen it. I'm glad I've seen it, but that that'll probably be it for me. So I'm gonna give lonely a lot of credit. I actually really like this film more than I thought I did. Not that I was

Uh, it pulled me in. My big problem and uh lonely, I'm gonna ask you because I Are you a big So I have a moral ethical issue with true crime, but I consume it. I can't lie. I do consume it. And this isn't painting painting a broad picture, but I'm someone who's never been full truly interested in true crime. Not that it But that it's never been something that catches.

Real life is just so boring. Um, for me with more films, it was always about the fantastical. And so the films that are closer to realism. Directly connect with. And that's how I initially started approaching the film. And then it started getting a little bit artsy-fartsy, which it was not in a bad way. It actually and really kind of gave a new life. So I really appreciated that about it. And just like we're going to do in my future segment, they covered a lot of different health topics.

personality disorders that are beautiful to dissect. So as I was watching this film, I was like, Uh-huh, uhhuh. Billy D, how about you? So yeah, I uh what really pulled me into this movie was just how gorgeous it looked.

the setting, the framing, the color palette and the cinematography, they're all just so beautiful. And all those aesthetics combine and present this kind of quaint and quiet little haunting, melancholic kind of setting. and you get a real sense of like a lived in space as well as all the beautiful landscapes. And the performances are all strong. The overall tone I found pretty interesting, although there is like a lack of verbal exposition.

combined with like some strange editing choices that left me a little confused and disconnected at times. And it took me a while to figure out the inner workings and the rules of the cult. And it took me even a little bit longer to realize that some of what we were seeing were not only just dreams of the lead protagonist, but also her fantasy. And uh I after sitting with it a little bit longer, I enjoyed it more than on the initial

my initial viewing, uh I did kind of drift in and out, but uh I kept being pulled back in just by the beauty of it. It was it was Just a gorgeous, gorgeous piece of film. So let me paint the the premise for the listeners on what the film was about. So we have this all female cult with a male leader called the flock.

And they're separated it's a group of women of various ages, ranging from like children to, you know, I would say middle aged women. And they're separated into daughters and wives. So if you're a wife, you are a basically a a a wife, a sexual partner, a caregiver to the lead male of this cult called the Shepherd, and the rest of them are daughters. And they live on the land. It's insinuated that they are living on the land separated from society in a modern time. So it's almost like they've

disconnected themselves from society. And there are some things that are happening that set the cults on the run. It's kind of insinuated that the cops are on to them and the shepherd decides that they have to move. locations. They have to move their compound. And along the journey is when things really start to unravel because the cult is exposed to the elements, they question the shepherd. They question some of the things that they're seeing. And

Yes, I can definitely feel where the story kind of drags in some places as it this is a bit arthouse. I wouldn't say it's full art house, but it does skew um pretty artsy. Um And it does drag in some places, but That's the kind of the story. You follow Cella, she is sort of a a young girl who's coming of age. We were to assume she's probably a young teenager.

And she is having trouble basically understanding herself in the context of the cult and also becoming a woman in the context of the cult. So One of the things that I thought was so interesting was how the shepherd, because it's the only man that they have contact with. He's seen as a father figure, he's seen as a leader, he's seen as a husband, he's seen as a friend, and how all those emotions kind of travel through the main character of Cella is so interesting.

Because in the beginning of the film, you get this idea that she wants to be with him. Like she wants to be with him as like a confidant. And then we get hints that she sees him like she wants to be a wife. And then she starts to see more, and there's hints that she wants like him to be her father when she has like these flash forwards of what her life could be outside of the cult. It's just really interesting how all of the nuances of how this male figure is interacting with these women and

I don't know. This there's some amazing colors in this. There's some really cool shit. And maybe this was just one of those films that was like written for someone like me. This film was actually re reviewed pretty poorly. It does it skews low on the ratings, which You know, I've rated it five both times, so I was surprised. But Mike, what did you think? I know you mentioned that this was pretty artsy for you.

Did the storytelling not come through for you? Did it not like what did you feel about the characters and the in the story that they're trying to tell with Cella? Did it not resonate? Um, I mean it it did. I I was a little bit Billy's re some of the stuff Billy was referring to with the editing and cuts to this, like this there's a scene where she's with the cult out there and then a a good

Car full of girls drives by and she's in the car. And I was like, Oh, I guess she's dreaming she's getting away, is what I guess I took from that, but it keeps coming back to that. And I just That's that's the artsy part. kinda lost me a little bit. I just wasn't really sure.

As far as the characters go, I mean I I will say it did capture what I mentioned earlier as the scariest aspect of Colts to me, which is just that blind loyalty to someone who clearly doesn't deserve it, specifically in this book. Like I don't know why. This guy's why they're following him in the first place.

Um there's he does not seem to have a whole lot of redeeming qualities. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing as a leader. Uh and as you said, the the relationship between everyone's not super super clear. Um and then he does some real terrible shit at the end. I kept wanting the he's always telling them that he's going to give them his grace. And I was just waiting for someone to be like, Fuck your grace, I'm getting out of here or which I guess they sort of uh

not metaphorically, they did in their own way at the end, uh, get out of there. Um yeah, so I mean I think the characters are fine and I thought the performances are fine, uh although there wasn't a ton of dialogue at times but Again, it was just it was beautiful. I like Billy said, I loved watching it. Um it just there wasn't enough of a story and it wasn't different enough from what I kind of expect from a movie like this. Um

To kind of keep me super, super engaged the whole time. Kanan, what did you think? Even though it I thought it was a good idea.

socioeconomic factor to it where a lot of these women just like Lonely said, uh some of these girls have been in it for so long that they don't know any other way to back out of it. Their family may not be there to support. And it reflects just how some people have to do.

where even if it's not a central cult leader, it's your job, it's having to take care of a family member. There's just something holding you there that you really don't know what to do about. And that was I'm not gonna call it scary, but uh depressing. People. Did you think the same thing, Lily?

Yeah, and I would say the one thing I'll add here because we'll get into some just what you started talking about, Khan, which is like the scares of the film. And w I think what makes it scary is definitely more of like the societal implications of what's happening here. And there are some really like emotional scenes about stuff that happens with the women.

there's not a lot of gore or, you know, jump scares or any of that stuff. It's more of like what is happening on screen. But I did find that there is the scene at the towards the end of the film, I would say in the last There are two kind of things in the last act. One is the death of Adriel, who is the one of the young girls who is pregnant for the bulk of her film. She dies in labor, and we see her funeral in

Like all on screen. Like they burn her body on a pyre and we see her other child, her daughter, like basically pulled off of her corpse. Like it's really fucked up in my opinion. Definitely not like

Scary in the typical frame of horror, but definitely something that I thought was pretty disturbing. Because up until this point, like you have these bad feelings about the shepherd, but And you've seen him kind of like lash out at people, but you haven't seen him be truly as cruel as he is in that moment when He literally like pulls I don't know why it's standing out so much for me, he like pulls the kid off his mother's body so he can like burn her corpse. It's like so so fun.

And then there's obviously the ending. Where we and I won't spoil the ending, but um we find that the Shepherd has done something pretty pretty significant. And that is he's there's a lot of people who are suddenly no longer there and there's a little bit of a story to that as well. But did you guys catch the part about the baby?

And why he why she the one of the wives said to take the baby away. Did you catch that? Because it was a boy. It could only be one shepherd leading the herd. Yeah, one wham in the flock, right? Yep. And I just thought and maybe and maybe some people are like rolling their eyes at that, but I thought that was just so

I don't know. I keep saying the word poignant. This movie really struck a chord with me because it just shows just how much power he had over them and how he was controlling the narrative of these people's lives to like the nth degree. Definitely felt Not a correct comparison, but this definitely felt like Manson family-esque to me, slightly. Um, maybe it's because they was just a white man with a

beard and long hair leading a bunch of women. But um that stood out to me too, was that he was like he would go as far as to

kill a baby to not overrule his his authority. It's also biblical in that way, you know, referring to like, you know, Jesus Christ and the, you know, the fact that they tried to kill Jesus in the when he was born too. But yeah. I don't know. Apparently this g this film did not land with you with you, gents, and I'll accept it because the void didn't land with me.

But no, no, no, no, no. I it it did land with me. Um I it was just little aspects of the story that I found a little bit like Hard to to grasp, but like I was I was stuck on this idea of how they treated period. And when you got your period, they would like put you in a shed.

And it's like so weird how certain religions uh are like that because it's like you would think it would be the opposite. It would be like celebrated. And in a way it kinda gets celebrated because that means that they're now they can be a wife. Uh, but it was really just weird how the shepherd was gaslighting and brainwashing the women to fear the power of their own womanhood and then in turn uses that to turn them against each other.

Yeah. And uh y it was really wild and um I guess I I probably would have liked it. A lot more, there's something, and we won't spoil the ending, but you get to see some type of come up comeuppance or at least the after effects of the comeuppance. And I kind of wanted to see a little more brutality. No yeah, I feel that. And actually when I rew on the rewatch Billy, I could have sworn there was more

More comeuppants. I could have sworn there was more on screen comeuppants in my first re my first watch, but I agree. I do like the ending shot. It is pretty gruesome and it has a nice little religious uh overtone to it that I like a lot.

Um, but I guess we'll just touch on that one last piece that we kinda glazed over, which is to your point, Billy, the kind of dynamic between the unclean or kind of the disgraced wives. I guess there's only one, but there is a sort of disgraced wife that is qu sort of separate from the rest of the community. She's still in the community, but she's sort of like an outcast.

And she cares for the girls when they're on there, period, because they're considered unclean at that time. And You slowly start to unravel the story of this this, you know, outcasted wife and how she got there, and basically you find out that she was outcasted because she challenged the chat. And he did not want to deal with that anymore. So

And that also creates like a whole other level of nuance for her character and how that relates to people who are in cults. Like this woman would rather stay outcasted. and essentially disgraced in a community rather than leave the community entirely. And I think that speaks so strongly to kind of what we're getting at in this episode, which is like the sheer power

of the cult's like social social political climate on the people in that community. You know what I mean? Like I think about that, like if one of us, you know, if you were hated by a bunch of people, wouldn't you just leave?

And I think we would say yes, but we weren't in that situation. You know what I mean? Yeah. I I wanted to ask you all a little about an element of the set design. in their first little community before they're chased off by the cops, uh there's like a Out in the trees there are like strings wrapped around the trees. and kind of creating uh these makeshift rooms. And I didn't really pick up on what the uses of those were besides just like something kind of strangely beautiful.

Uh I recently listened to the More Deadly podcast where they talked about this and one of the hosts just defined those as pens to keep the sheep in. Yep, that's exactly what I thought too. And then it's so they also have sheep like with them most of the film and like the sheep if you think about the wool, turning the wool into the like the yarn, like spinning the yarn that

like makes the pens and then there's also you could take it another step further and you think about spinning the yarn and spinning the web as like lying, like telling a story. And that's what the shepherd has been doing this whole time. So he's literally like encapsulating them, like enclosing them in the lies that is the the whole thing. I know it's getting pretty old metaphysical. I feel the woo-woo comments coming, but I think it's also really freaking cool to look at.

too. Like on screen it's a really cool thing. Mike, you hated the art. the art house of it. What did you have any feelings about the string or are you like lonely it's string? What are your thoughts? No, it's funny that Billy mentioned that I knew as soon as he brought up before you even said string, I knew that's where you were going'cause I actually thought the same thing. But I thought that was like super cool, but I wanted to know more about it, right?

But you that was not woo-woo lonely. That was a very excellent explanation of what that probably was. So now I'm with you. That was pretty cool. So you've won me over at least on the yarn.

Okay. the shepherd's fetish for shoving his fingers in the women's mouths is just not cool at all. I sure hope so. Yeah. We can agree on that. I mean I mean if that's your if that's your kink, that's cool, but those women did not seem like they enjoyed that. There was no consent there. There was no Correct. We're not kink shaming on nobodies. We are consent.

forcing or w or however we want to say that. Um but canon, any last last thoughts on string or fetishes or colts before we go to closing thoughts on the other lamb? The one other film that I compared the feeling of this film to was the Harbinger. Has anyone seen that? I think it was 2020. Oh, boo, hate it. But continue. Yes, I saw it. It it's one of the few Did that uh again it is similar to this one where it wasn't like my favorite film ever, but I'm like the vibe of it was so

But I would recommend other people see it. And that's kind of how I felt with this film, is that it took me on a ride and it was So I can say that good film. Mike Billy, closing thoughts. Yeah, I mean I didn't hate it for real. Like there's a lot to like here, especially in the filmmaking. So I mean it's not like it's a one out of ten or anything. It's probably like, you know, five or six out of ten for me. I just didn't

It's it's not something I'm gonna go back to, but there's definitely an audience for it. Um, and it's one I could see recommending if I thought it was someone who I would dig this particular kind of film. But no, I mean I think it was terrible or anything. Not gonna be something I'm gonna, you know, pop in once a year to watch. Billy, what do you think?

Yeah, I'd give it around a six and a half, seven out of ten. Uh I mean it's it's beautiful. It's a wonderful looking piece of art with a compelling story, but the overall execution and the narrative was just a bit too esoteric and cold that left me frustrated. And I'll give it a five out of five. both times. So I obviously recommend it. But no, this is a gorgeous, gorgeous film and it is quite poetic in that way. So you know

If you're a fan of the same things I enjoy and writing in that way, like I think you're gonna like this a lot. But if you s if this isn't your thing, like if you don't love kind of a slow pacing and kind of having to put things together and you know being beat over the head with symbolism, then that's not your vibe. But it it is certainly mine. So I'm very glad I got to review this on the show. So thank you for humoring me, my favorite people.

Greetings, my fellow vesicles of Visceral. I'm Plague Doctor Al, and this is my apothecary of alluring aromas in Starship. Wherein we will dissect the cuts, kills, and clinical mood disorders in the main films we review for each episode of No Bodies. Here with me tonight is my favorite Ariaster hater, Miss Lonely Ghost. Please say.

I am oh I'm it's very official. It's yes, I am here and I'm ready to be educated. Excellent. And she will be Additionally, in order to alleviate the foul odors that may hit our delicate noses amongst all this flesh and anatomy, I will choose a delightful fragrance to pair with each film towards the end, just so that we get So let's pull out our Grey's Anatomy, our DSM5 tomes, and let's get a bit of a. Karen, this is quite frankly, an insanely creative segment. And I had

no idea where we were gonna end up with it, but I'm very excited and happy with where we where we did end up. So we the listeners have to know, where did the idea for your segment come from? So my folks and I we're actually uh refugees from Bosnia and Herzegovina and I use that as Eastern European, which, if there is one thing you need to know about Eastern European people, is that we eat so much onion and garlic that we have to wear colognes and perfumes to.

So since the ripe young age of six, uh my father got me colognes. And so I've always been not a collector per se, but I've always had them around me and I always appreciated them. Well, when I finally started being in Now's the whole bunch of colognes and I feel like that gives us a good horror background. That's a great segue to our first film that I know you're gonna be diving into. So take us into the void and give us all of your knowledge.

Excellent. So well usually basis, the general theme that I will be following with the void is birth and rebirth. So for the first topic, we are going to cover one that I know a lot of horror So let me read you a definition. Degloving occurs when the skin and the fat below it and the subcutaneous tissue are torn away from the underlying anatomy. This is also known as an emulsion when things get pulled. So from that guess.

Yes, so many. So this is probably a good time to tell the listeners or remind them that I was not a science or math person. And that is why um I think Cannon and I are a great a great north and south compass because we just have different brains. So Is this like when the flesh comes off the bone or am I totally missing this entirely? Um I think Uh it's not uh so the muscle can still stay there. It's just that all the soft tissue around it gets pulled off. The most common example.

Typically like when someone gets their hand or a finger stuck in something, when they try to pull it out, the flesh actually gets pulled off of it. So like for instance, there there are common stories of people who like de-glove their index finger. Oh my god. Yeah, no, I get it. I see it now. I see where Dglove is. I see where the term comes from.

And you'll have to forgive me because there was so much blood and guts in the void. I don't remember when this happened in the film. So what part of the film do we actually see this? You're in luck, lonely. There actually was not a formal So uh the start at the start of the film, one of

Textbook to one of our first victims before he becomes a victim, and she talks about the definition of de-gloving. Now, what I thought was interesting about that, there's a whole end and the thing that I caught was that do you remember when the doctor uh re And you start to notice that he's uh manipulating his own flesh. Yes, yes, I do remember that. So if you see the way he's peeling the skin off his face, you could So I think the textbook was a premonition or a lead-in.

Oh I'm sure it is because if we assume that people make films. with, you know, some semblance of of connection, then nothing means nothing in a film. In most well written films. So yeah, I would say definitely that was a a precursor to what was coming later. That was one The next

Called uh placental abruption. Have you ever heard this term before? I brought it up to you. No, never heard this before. So in the residency program. Which means I actually got to work in the hospital, I did a little bit of pediatrics, and I actually got to deliver uh a couple babies. attrition. A placental abruption happens when the placenta separates early from the uterus, typically like before the child is born. And the way this If um off another way is uh because the

The best organ ever evolved. It can actually sometimes have part of its arteries because it needs to have a lot of them so that child can get a whole bunch of um well blood and nutrition. Some of the arteries may actually break down and cause these little blood. and eventually pop. No, yeah, I was literally, as you were explaining this, thinking we need to start recording Canon segment with video because I'm like I'm physically reacting to some of this. I have such a sensitivity to anything with

feminine health and uterus and all that I have like such a like a horrible reaction to it. I know it's only gonna get worse when we get into the next second film, so but I mean, this one I think I know is more clear in terms of the or clearer in the example in the film. This is seen in the the teenage girl, right? Who's giving who's pregnant it for most of the film. Mm-hmm. Uh and the way I actually extrapolated this, because I wasn't one hundred percent sure I I can't prove

During the film, because technically, if the child was about to be born, it can actually cause excessive bleeding in the mother. But what actually piqued my interest in this was when the male character and the uh head nurse When they had their first pregnancy. Do you recall that? Mm-hmm. Yep, I do remember that. That was in the middle of the pregnancy, and so that's kind of

does not a lot of other horror films have placental abruptions. So I thought this would be a fun topic because I can't not prove that that's what happened that caused their child to pass away. But then I wanted to let Do you remember how the film ends with what you Yes, but I do think you should tell the listeners how it ends as well. So yes perfectly that it's perfectly okay. Uh so what happens, spoilers, um, when they're trying to open up the alternative

end life, the main character decides to jump at him, push him through the portal, and essentially close it off. And that to me felt like a metaphor. where the child of his evil endeavors was actually halted. That is super cool. And honestly, like it's giving me a lot more to look at with this.

the film. Like I don't want to sound so convinced already, listeners, but I just like learning a little bit more about what can potentially be the symbolism there, especially in one of my critiques of the void being I couldn't quite get what he was trying to tell me. Like this Whether it's entirely true or not, I feel like does give it a lot of color and a lot of texture. So I like that. I like that interpretation. And then just like how you mentioned that.

Unfortunately, I would wish I never learned, but yes, I know oh, and they take your organs out. Is that true? Is that true? Do they take your organs out to get the baby when they do a C section? is I've helped a couple of the obstetricians out as like during the Caesarean section and you literally pull it out. I can hear you laughing. I can hear you giggling, canon. This is giggling because there's no easy way. I thought the same thing.

Like the first time the the surgeon I was with was really good, but he actually forced me to shove my hand into it, pull a gray baby, and then within about five seconds, it took its first breath and turned pink. Oh I just can't even imagine that. But continue. For those who haven't who don't know what a C section is, would you like to tell the listeners, Kenari? A C section is One or technically more babies are delivered through an incision.

Now there's two types of C-sections that can happen, and I'm just going to reference the modern one, which is a horizontal cut that happens towards the pubic area. completed. What I got with the C section is obviously with the one.

uh they were ready to actually do a C section, but unfortunately the nurse in training was uh terrified to do it because I would be too because you're And I found a parallel The villain first shows up and captures uh the main character's um I forgot if it was wife or ex-wife, but the main female nurse character and he induces a

doing a C section to show the monster within. Mm-hmm. But those were the main topics I had for the Void. Like I said, it fit a lot in with uh birth and rebirth. So uh that is the medical review of the Void.

And if they've if listeners have made it this far, what fragrance recommendation are you giving them? Ah, so I tried to be a little bit abstract with my pics because dark, dirty, grimy, like a lot of the horror films might fit. So I thought, what were some of the themes or where were some So I thought of something heavily medicinal, heavily sanitized, and then towards

Corridor, those dark corridors where all the bad experiments happened. I thought it'd probably have like some smells of dampness, of dirt. Oils, gasoline. The fragrance I have chosen is one by Gucci, and it is called Gucci Guilty Absolute. The without telling the actual notes, which I'll say if you ever want to look up any cologne's notes. Parfumo, such as fragrantica. I usually like to say what the fragrances remind me of. So in Gucci Guilty Absolute, I get notes of almost like a fragment.

uh notes of petrochemicals like oils, notes of leather like all the dark creatures that were there, and then dark woods, which what does that mean? It just means it's not a light smell. And over poured gasoline and mixed some pills over like a bowl made of wood. And because I am gonna be a what are they I was about to say, so you know

Smaliers, the people who do wine. I was like, oh I'm gonna be a smaller training with Canada. That is not what we're doing here. I'm gonna be a a a trainee of Canada in in fragrances. I've done my research as well for the layman's terms. And I would like to describe the bottle. It's a it's a it's a round rounded rectangle bottle. And the recommendation is that you wear this in the winter and in the evening. Aren't you proud, Canada? I got those little little little buzzy notes for you.

the perfect description and it is not one that's meant to be worn around a lot of other people. It will be very potent. Or or wear it around people and in the sunlight and maybe you'll find more interesting people to bring into your life. But

On to the next film, which has not only interesting people, but also more uterus problems. Also one I had to extrapolate, but th this one wasn't too much of an extrapolation. This one I'm about ninety percent sure based off how they described it. So I I think it's a good idea. I got it on the mark there.

There. But the general theme for the other lamb is control. So a lot of the things, unlike the void, uh the lamb did. Through organic disorders where it's something coming from the body. A lot of them were more mental or personality disorders. is narcissistic personality disorder.

Narcissistic personality disorder is a complex and heterogeneous characterized by patterns of grandiosity, entitlement, low empathy, and interpersonal difficulties, which could be manifested as either being grandiose or thick skinned or vulnerable. And obviously that took a lot of the same.

Oh a hundred percent. And I feel like narcissism and cults just in general go in hand in hand because I think we There's a lot of like post-diagnosis I feel that's done with a lot of like major cult cult leaders and the two words that you often hear come up in this space are definitely the narcissistic disorder or antisocial personality disorder, which are two different

two different disorders. And I think a lot of people a lot of people who don't have experience with personality disorders, either like professionally or personally. It's it's hard to tell them apart sometimes, especially ones that have more of a negative connotation in the media. But I think a hundred percent it's this idea of

The you see the narcissism at play in the fact that the the shepherd it's his world very much and these women are just living in it oh like beyond the point of delusion. So I think yeah, that's an absolutely perfect read. And he kind of fits. Like, yeah. He's very entitled. Um he uh the the thing where you can compare narcissism to uh to not directly compare it to um people who are psychopaths or I'm skipp I I am forgetting. Could you what was the other

Yeah, antisocial. Uh when you put those two together, narcissistic personality disorder can actually still have a little bit of empathy for the people that they think are worth it. So in his case, he fits that where even though he feels He still honestly in his own sick way cares for the women in such a way. Oh, 100%. And I'm trying to, as we're on this call, I'm trying to remember the clusters of personality description. Cluster A, cluster B, cluster.

Yeah, so we'll get into my cluster in just a moment, but right now we're in cluster. B cluster B, yes. And that goes to the whole we're coming full circle because narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder both exist in cluster B and that's why they often can be misdiagnosed in people, particularly in women, but

And on that note, I think that brings us to our next one, right? This one, we are moving over to cluster C with dependent personality disorder. And if you guys are wondering what clusters, you you can just look it up.

Dependent personality disorder is characterized by pervasive dependence on other people and subsequent submissiveness and clinginess. You may uh I mean, I think a lot of people have actually been exposed to individual. another you need someone else in order to function or to get gain self worth, which kind of reflects a lot of the

Yeah, and and thinking absolutely, I think that's a perfect kind of encapsulation of what's happening. And I'd love to and this is just a a moment of like ignorance of something I just don't know. I'd love to know, like do some research on if dependent personalities disorder can be onset like by an event or if it's something that people are prone to having. So

And I guess it's kind of like chicken before the egg with a lot of stuff is did something bring on the personality disorder or was this person always like predisposed to it and that's why they ended up in the situations that they're in? I'll compare it to uh have you ever

order. Yes, and exactly because to be honest with you, I didn't even I've never heard of this term until you've just brought it up. And when you were describing it, it reminded me a lot of borderline, because borderline is in cluster B. And uh what can happen with

It it can either be due to multiple years of either not having the best relationship with your parents, uh, then being mentally abusive, putting you down, that can lead to borderline or could lead to dependent, or that precipitated a lot of her insecurities and emotions and feelings that So it can be both something prolonged or Yeah, and I think, you know, if if folks are more interested in the clusters, the movie Girl Interrupted is an interesting kind of communication about the clusters.

And if you're this is all very interesting to you at all, do some research on Borderline, especially because I think it's relevant to some of the characters we see in The Other Lamb. I think you could cross-diagnose these people in multiple ways. Um but Kanon's the professional and not me. Um and I think Borderline has an interesting history of

gendered diagnosis. It's was more so diagnosed in women for so for so long. And I think that goes back to kind of what we're talking about and, you know, how different characteristics of these disorders are appear in different individuals in different ways. So, you know, there are it's easy, I think, on its head to picture women as being more so in the dependent personality c category, just because of what we know of gender norms.

So very interesting. And I am a proud um resident of cluster C in O C D. So here I am. That's why I love when people are like, oh my God, you're such a hard worker. And I'm like, thanks, it's a disorder. If it makes you feel better, I am cluster B, but I am the OCPD type where I love to not micromanage other people. Mm-hmm. And that's why we get along. But I think we have one more for this film, right? Yes, ma'am. So this is about the only organ and then like I said, I am

film. The last topic that we have for the other lamb is postpartum endometria. So, endometriitis is the inflammation of the inner lining of the uterus, which is known as the endometrium. This causes signs and symptoms that include fever, lower abdominal pain. And it typically is it happens after an infection set.

And there's this weird in-between line where there's something that can happen when s when a woman's pregnant, which is called choreo amniitis, which is an inflammation of the actual amnips. And then after the child is delivered, whatever's left over, it's swollen and needs to get back to normal. That is when infections like these can actually cause endometriitis as well.

And I'm gagging as listening to this again. It's just the just the uterus stuff that really gets me. And I think that's because, personal note, I have endometriosis, different ending there. Um, so I've been exposed to kind of female reproductive care from a very young age. And If anybody knows anything about that, it is uh kind of barbaric and prehistoric in a lot of ways. You know, the ways in which we do a lot of testing for these kinds of things, I feel is so behind the curve.

in, you know, comparatively to how we measure other medicine and other things. So when I was actually looking at Kanan's notes for this, I was reading it the whole time as endometriosis. So this just shows that I just didn't know what word I was reading. Um, do you happen to know the difference in those two like the the ending of the words? what they mean at all.'Cause I know it's like Latin or something, right? Yeah. Osis just refers

quotes of. So like for instance, endometriosis is endometrial tissue. And in the case of endometriosis, it is when the tissue of formed that that tissue can be ectopic and go elsewhere because you can have endometriosis in the sacrum, on top of your uterus. Because that area, all of it, all of it still reacts to your home hormonal cycles because it is still active horm uh endometrial tissue. So whenever you have a period, it will reactor.

Oh, oh do I know. And poor my poor husband does too. There's like times where I've passed out and stuff like that, just from pain and all of that. But this goes to this main character's mother. So in the in the story, we hear that the main character's mother has passed away from an infection after birth. And you know, I was so curious on what that actually was because they talk about the birth

You know, being relatively normal and the mother feeling relatively normal, and then it's the infection that they don't treat that actually like causes her to pass away. And I had no idea like what. I'm sure there was lots of things that could have caused that, especially because they were like giving birth in the woods and stuff. But I had no idea that it could have been something like internal. I think I just assumed that it was like, I don't know.

uh an injury or something that got infected, but it doesn't sound like with this that's actually what happened. In the same way when my patients who get pneumonia ask me why did I get this? That's essentially what endometriitis is. But all it takes is for one bacteria to appear there that shouldn't appear there in her postpartum state when she's tired, the tissue are trying to get back to normal, and it can take Which is easily treatable if d if Villain is the villain.

Absolutely. One of many reasons that it has and there's more to do with babies and his evilness as we continue. And we're gonna get into that review in just a few minutes. But before we get into that review

Do you have another fragrance for the listeners? Yes. Um I want to be cognizant of our listeners because when I give some of these fragrance reviews, some of them are niche fragrances. Like they And I don't even buy all of these. I just like to sample them because they can usually be about two to four dollars a sample just to say, oh, I know what this is. So for some of the fragrances, I will actually pair two of them that I feel are close enough so that it's more approachable.

The first one I'm talking about is one of my personal favorites. This one I did save up for to purchase. It is called Frederick Maul's Synthetic Jungle. This is Based fragrances because it has notes of deep forest, oak moss, undertree brush, dirt, and fresh lilies. So it's this beautiful mixture of a forest.

it because it can't kinda kinda gives the um the image of the grandiosity that was happening in their situation where they almost felt like apart from the world dealing with what they did in the cult. And for this fragrance, we have a beautiful round bottle. And the main notes are just green, which I love. That's very clear and to the point. And it's it's recommended that you wear this in the spring and during the day.

That one I think encapsulates the feeling of the film better, but there's one really close where the main difference is just a little bit of rose. The next one is diptychs l'ombre danse low to twelve. Yes, obviously. Uh you're already like several legs up on me when it comes to speaking other languages. So you can speak however you want in any language you want,'cause you're already ahead of me. This one I think is a lighter version, but it's still

of uh springtime tree leaves, rose, amber, and deer musk. So it is still more deep forest, but instead of being down in the brush and the dirt, I think this one's a little where the air is flowing and there's more flowers going about. I actually I'm very interested in this one now, but this is really cute. This is a oval, almost like pearl-shaped bottle. Love it.

And this just shows how good Kanon was with matching these fragrances because this one is also recommended for the spring and the daytime. Highly recommended. Thousands of people agree that you should wear this in the spring and the daytime. This actually I've this is one the first one that you've talked about that I actually want to smell. Black currant, yes, A plus. Diptik is a

Alright, folks, let's close our textbooks. Let's cap off our perfumes and call it there. This is this was the review that. Yeah. We try to horrify you at Low Link. And we can find This lovely fragrance to enchant our noses. Till next time.

Now we can get into The best and worst from this subgenre. So as y'all see in this new show format, we are doing two feature-length reviews of the film. So in our best and worst, you'll probably hear films that were not talked about in the full review. If you hear a film that you're interested in, so much so that you want us to review it, just give us a call and we can uh get it on an episode. But Billy, why don't you get us started? What is your worst cult film?

I would go with the babysitter killer queen. So I I enjoyed the first one with and it's the it's like a blood cult and all that type of deal, but this second one just seemed like very glossy and kind of a pandering mess. And just was fitting on all these love letters to other better films. And I don't know, it just it just turned me off and just g made me pretty mad. So

That that's probably my worst. I never even saw the the first one. Are those both they're Netflix originals, right? I'm not sure. The the I the they're the first one I thought was fun. Uh Yeah, I don't know. I've heard a lot of people enjoy Killer Queen, but I that's just not my style. I I like it a little more dark and it's just a little too silly.

All right, Mike, what do you got? Uh so I had a couple. I thought of Wicker Man, but two thousand eight. The Bees, not the Bees. Uh obviously one of the worst remakes of all time. Last game. Yeah. Um I also thought uh and this is kind of a random one, but Halloween six. Uh the which I believe is the curse of Michael Myers. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, you get Paul Rudd.

But the story is totally nonsensical and there is like this idea of a cult, like maybe the cults of Michael Myers, but they like only half baked that idea and it makes no sense in the rest of the movie, so I thought those are the two worst. Uh Kanan, what you got?

Children of the corn 2020, the duest children of the corn. It is, I mean, it's a cash grab in all ways that you can imagine, but it was unwatchable. I mean, like some of the other sequels to it because how many weird sequels it has, but this is one of the few children of the corn where I just went this absolutely did not That's my only comment. That terrible cult in the corn with vegetables and corn god.

Well we have a we have a vocal stem for that one too. The original. Outlander. Kill the Outlander. Oh yeah, that is I need to clip that audio. Canada view you quoting the quicker way. That was so fucking funny. I'm still laughing about that. Anyway, um my on the other comment I need to say.

is that my best friend Tom has an entire chronological, like, seventeen page word document trying to explain the cult of Thorne from the Michael Myers from Michael Myers six. It is just the funniest shit I've ever seen in my life. That doesn't make sense. And I And I love him so much.

I know. He's like in he also he's a total Halloween fan, so he tries to explain how like the cult of Thorn was like woven out through all the movies. Love you, Tom, but that's kind of I I can't I can't get behind you on that. Um my worst is one that I put in, I think.

We're going way back in time to the whore alphabet, and that is ironically, the Flock, not related to the other lamb, the Flock twenty twenty two. While on a journey to find a mysterious cult, three young people encounter a plot to raise a demonic entity. This is a found footage on Tube and it's about some people who like kidnap a cult member and they like go to an Amazon warehouse. It's not an Amazon warehouse in the script, but it is very obviously an Amazon warehouse in the film.

And there's a Satan in there, there's some sex demons, a video camera. What more could you ask for? But, you know, let's take it back up. Let's talk about some baths.

So let's I'm gonna flip the order again. I'm just really keeping y'all on your toes. Kanan, what is your best for me? I mean, that film just took me through the wildest ride. I felt like someone who got pulled into that cult the way the film made me feel, because at the end, every bad emotion that you shouldn't have been feeling the

towards the heroine where you're like, yeah, kill him. He deserves it. And then upon reflection, I'm like, God, it really wasn't that bad that he had to die. And so that's one of the few No, no other comment. Uh so for mine I actually picked like uh part of a movie. I chose Safe Haven, which is one of the parts in VHS. I knew you were gonna say that, Mike. I knew it.

But you know what's really interesting, so I'd heard about that forever, that that was the best part of any VHS movies or whatever, and I had never seen it till this past sh October. we call October around here. Um so I didn't realize I was watching it when it started. And it's just for those who don't know, it's an absolutely, absolutely bonkers short film uh about a cult in Indonesia and these people have come to to check it out and

It's guess journalists who are reporting on it. And I didn't realize I was watching Safe Fame because they don't tell you what it's called. And then it just went completely insane. I was like, this is the wildest shit I've ever seen. And it was awesome. So I would say that. I also want to give a quick shout out to Hot Fuzz.

uh which is a horror comedy, so lonely if you haven't seen it, I probably wouldn't put it on the list. Um but it's more about cult like behavior than probably a true cult, but it is absolutely hilarious and over the top violent and uh it's one of my wife and I's favorite go-to watches. What you got, Billy? I got a bunch. Uh so there's Starry Eyes about the Hollywood Elite and a young woman's desire for fame and fortune that has an excellent performance by Alex Esso and gets pretty gross.

There's uh the invitation she talked about at the beginning of the episode about a dinner party with ulterior motives. And that's got a creepy slow burn feel and a killer ending. There's a film fault. That I don't hear a lot of people talking about. It's just outside of the realm of horror, but it's about a washed up cult deprogrammer.

who gets schooled by Mary Elizabeth Winstead and I love her. There's Red State, which I think is probably Kevin Smith's best and most grown-up film about fundamentalists. And my favorite is the empty man about a cult that uses thought form to create a tult. I'm having flashbacks, Billy, of those freaking analog horror films we watch about Tulpa. Yeah. That's all I can think about. I'm so glad I went last because you guys mentioned so many of

Like the best films that I wanted to talk about. Midsummer is in my top 10. Canon, ironically, as an IRAster hater, that film is stellar. Um, I love Safe Haven. I also love Red State. I debated whether or not to talk about Red State, but ultimately my my best, this is where I'm firmly sitting, is Apostle 2018. in nineteen oh five.

Yes, oh so good. So graphic, so fucking crazy. I love it. In nineteen oh five, a drifter on a dangerous mission to rescue his kidnapped sister tangles with a sinister religious cult on an isolated island. Apostle skews super heavy into folk horror, but this is honestly, I think, one of the most gruesome films. And it's very insidious, this film.

Because it is quite a slow burn and there's a lot going on as typical Fulcore fashion. But that gore hits you at about the three-quarter mark and it does not stop until the film ends. And this is a gorgeous film. It's one of my favorites. Have you guys all seen this? I think you all have seen this one, right? Is that the one with Michael Sheehan? I love when they they do the uh

whatchamacallit, they like hit the guy with a sledgehammer over the head and then it's like like a watermelon. Um I sound like an absolute psycho. The Extreme Horror Iceberg really did another on me. Um I just don't don't process information the same way. But

Thank you for humoring that. So those are some of our best and worst listeners. Remember to call in if we missed any. And if any of you call in and say house to the devil, you're wrong. I'm surprised that has not come up in this conversation so far. And I'm so glad it hasn't. But now it's time for an old favorite. An old favorite with a new twist. Billy, what are we talking about next? So now we've got Susie's deep cut.

Named after founding host, Susie, aka Projectile Varmit. This segment highlights lesser-known films from this topic that we recommend you check out. If something has five thousand or under reviews on IMDB, we call it a cut. If something has between six and ten thousand reviews on IMDB, we call it a surface wound. And here is our lineup for tonight's topic.

Starting off with a couple of deep cuts, this one has just over 1400 reviews and it's currently sitting at a 4.6 on IMDB. And it is apocalypse cult, also called Apocalyptic from 2014. While investigating the legend of a mysterious group of religious people living in the forest, a local news crew becomes trapped in the grasp of a doomsday cult who are about to execute their final act of devotion and biblical punishment.

I recently watched this on Tubi and I gave it a three out of five. It's a well-acted PG-13 found footage film with a pretty creepy prophecy that comes in three parts. the moving of the men, the screaming of the girls, and the crossing to the new world.

Next with just over 1,000 reviews and currently sitting at a 5.0 on IMP We have another found footage film, The Triangle from 2016, about four filmmakers who take their cameras into the Montana wilderness to document the mysterious inner workings of a young community with a giant secret. I watched this one years ago and remember thinking it was uh pr pretty pretty good, maybe slightly ambiguous, and it's got kind of a sci fi cosmic thing going on there, so stay away from that one, lonely.

Moving on to some surface wounds and the year of my birth with just under 6,000 reviews currently sitting at a 5.8 on IMDB is To the Devil a Daughter from 1976. An occult novelist is entrusted to protect a brainwashed teenage girl from a devil-worshipping cult masquerading as a Christian sex. This is one of the last films made by Hammer Studios in stars Christopher Lee and a nude 14-year-old Nastasha Kinsky.

While some may view this as a bit of a lackluster melodrama, it does have engrossing performances and some great cinem cinematography, accentuated by an eerie score, I gave that a three out of five. With just over 7,000 reviews currently sitting at a 5.7 on IMDB, we had Sun from 2021. When a young boy contracts a mysterious illness, his mother must decide how far she will go to protect him from terrifying forces in her power.

I watched this when it came out on Shutter and it has some strong cinematography and gore, but as far as my rating, it looks like I put it in the middle of the road with the 2.5, but I've heard a lot of people talk more positively about that one. And lastly, going back to 1974, this one has about 7,500 reviews. And currently sits at a 6.3 on IMDB. And I know it's approved by Lonely. And I'm talking about Messiah of Eve.

A young woman goes searching for her missing artist father. Her journey takes her to a strange California seaside town governed by a mysterious undead cult. This is a strange and wonderful little fever dream of a film that reminds me of George Romero's early work, and I give it a four out of five stars. Ugh, good call on Messiah A Beeble. I not just'cause I like it, but that's such a I mean it's a cult film and nobody talks about it enough.

But that's not the topic for tonight. Well now that you're like officially integrated into this entire production, Billy, it might be time to do a zombie episode thoughts. Oh, I'm loving it. I'm the peop people seem to be over zombies. I will never ever be over zombies. Okay. Alright, maybe that's next on the docket, but as I always like to say, our fire is dwindling down. Kanan take us out with closing thoughts on our episode tonight.

So for today's closing thoughts, the question is, what is a modern day movement do you think would make a great premise for a cult film? And in today's society, God knows. Let's start out with Billy. You got a fun one for us? I think like LARP live action roleplay would be pretty good. Fantastic.

Yeah, I just when when I was in college I remember they had uh I my dorm was right in front of a park and all the kids would get out there and do that and I would just, you know, those big padded swords, but you know slide that pad off, you've got blades under there, you can get wild, man. So there's a oh my God. It's a

Frickin' it's on Tubi. It's about these people who live action roleplay, like World War Two, like being in a World War Two bunker. I'm not even kidding. Like this is a real horror film. So It's been done, but there's always room. I'm thinking you think like LARP with elves, Billy, is like the that's the LARP you're thinking. Yes, yes. You know, like knights and you know, armor and all that.

Yeah, so now we need to know, Kanan, do you you are a World of Warcraft um aficionado? Do you LARP as well? Have you ever LARPed? No, I have a social life. No, I uh I all be like um i forgot what it's called but it's that special type of plastic you can make like the foam to get all the costumes some of my friends make pretty detailed things no i just Either as something spooky.

spooky. Mike, what do you have? What do you have as a modern day movement you'd want to see as a cult? Or I guess we don't want to see any of these become cults, but what did you put in a horror film? So something that I they've made a lot of horror movies about. I just don't know if they've made it a cult type movie. It would be something about influencers. You know, these people who are obsessed with, you know.

pushing products on their Instagram pages and and stuff like that. Like I know we've had movies that have poked lots and lots of movies that poked fun of it, like bodies, bodies, bodies and and other ones like it, but as far as like a cult where there's a leader where they learn how to

hold the product. I just think there's a lot of ripe for satire. It would probably have to be a comedy, but um but there could also be some extreme horror in there for sure. So maybe some sort of influencer cult would be my my choice here. What you guys think, Kanan? My favorite one is baby. friends is K-pop stands. I mean some of these groups that they follow you could film a la train de business but at a k-pop concert. Does I need we'll have to talk offline. Would love to know your wife.

Because I've never been able to get into the into the K pop as they say. My mom calls it that, the K-pop. Because there's just one. There's one singular K pop. My suggestion is iPad kids. Do you know what I mean when I say iPad children? Does that resonate with you guys? have to deal with two year olds who can open their phone faster

Yeah, Dan and I have this conversation anytime we're at a restaurant and I see a child with an iPad. And listen, I'm not judging. I don't have children. I can't judge you all with your iPads. But what the heck? iPads everywhere. So I was thinking like iPad children, a la Stepford wives. So like the they like implant the iPad in the kid or something or they start replacing the children with like uh little robot kids. That was my uh my suggestion there. One of my fears, children.

Not iPads. Not to be confused with your fear of iPads. Children's and children and pictures of white Jesus. I have a creepy G my kitchen. It's a uh it's a family tradition. Mike, do you have a creepy Jesus as a Catholic? Did that did that reach you over in Catholicism? Uh I don't think there are any currently in my house, but I'm certain there was growing up or in grandparents' houses growing up.

What a great way to end the night on Creepy Jesus. Because that's all the time we have tonight, listeners. But if you want to continue the conversation, here's where you can find us. You can find me, Billy D, uh hosting Halloween Babies Podcast, or you can find me on Instagram and YouTube under HalloweenBaby Podcast.

And you can find me on Instagram, Twitter, Blue Sky. I am that horror teacher, where I try to post bite-sized movie reviews with some regularity. Um also just horror teacher over at Letterboxd if you want to keep track of things over there. I have just started an Instagram account now that I'm a horror podcaster, so you can find me on Instagram at Plague Doctor Al, or if you ever want to be educated on various health topics, you can

At the local uh station that I give health talks to about once a year. I only have two on there, but um they're fun to look at. And you can find my horror reviews in Rants for Lonely Souls over on Instagram at Lonely Horror Club where I try to cause problems on Filmstagram whenever possible. You can also find my real-time reviews on Letterboxd at lonely.com. or drop the club. Whoever took that. reviews and our episodes are on my website. This was episode seventy-five at We have to be up.

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