Episode 68: NEON Cagematch Part Three

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Yeah, I don't think either of us are going to help you out with it. I did find the whole Keanu Reeves storyline interesting. Almost like no matter where you are and what kind of community you're in, you're always going to have the people that rise to the top. and the people that fall and become the outsiders, and then the people like Jim Carrey in the movie who are just like the... I don't even know. The Jim Carreys. I hate the ending.

It's like they lost every ounce of subtlety throughout the entire film in that last chunk. So that's where Storyteller loses me here. That's so interesting. Yeah, because I also think the final scene is awesome. It's just that was building to that, and it is definitely over the top, but it also, I didn't expect them to go there, I guess. This is one of those times you have to separate the performer from the performance. I thought the performance of Sydney Sweeney is absolutely excellent.

particularly in that final scene i was just blown away by what she pulled off hello internet and welcome to nobodies the horror content podcast where we clean up the ugly things so you don't have to Our bi-weekly show features two hosts and rotating guest content experts tackling the nitty-gritty complex horror topics with the hope of making the genre more approachable for frequent flyers and newbies alike.

The goal of this show is to highlight diverse voices and perspectives in horror. This is your reminder that there may be discourse on this show that will challenge the way you look at the genre. So let's get ready to get ugly. I'm the ghost with the blog at Lonely, and I'm joined by my co-host and partner in crime. I am Susie aka ProjectileVarmint and what the listeners don't know or don't realize is we're on like four hours of recording just like right now so we're trying to get pumped up.

We're pumped up. It'll be like The Substance. Don't they have a song about that? Wait, we're not Sue material, but we can be Elizabeth Sparkle. Oh, okay, that's me. Welcome back to the Neon Cage Match, our October special where our hosts will be fighting to find out which art house film is the best of the best. Tonight is the grand finale. Which film will be crowned?

our neon winner. Stay tuned to find out. Finishing out this marathon episode is none other than the man, the mystery, the legend. How does that go lonely? The man, the myth, the legend. Mike, a.k.a. That Horror Teacher. Mike, on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely are you to ever speak to either one of us again after this recording?

15. Are you kidding? You know how much I love you guys. This has been awesome. I'm enjoying it. And I also like the idea that I'm a mystery. So let's keep it with that. The man, the mystery, the legend. Fantastic.

Before we finish out this battle royale, let's remind the listeners of our parameters and rules. So the metrics for the cage match, we pulled a total of 22 horror films from the neon filmography, rank them based on their IMD. and Rotten Tomatoes ratings and built our bracket. We won't go through all the rankings. The full bracket will be in the show notes and on Instagram by the end of... Tonight's episode, we will have discovered the best neon horror film of all time.

For scoring and advancing, each host will rate the film from 1 to 10 on the following metrics. Storytelling, scares, cinematography, and acting. We can't give zeros, so the lowest possible score will be a 12, and the highest possible score will be a 120. the film with the highest score from each round will advance in the event of a tie the film with the highest Rotten Tomatoes score will advance to the next round

As a reminder, each host has one wildcard that allows them to rescore any film that is already advanced, but it can only be used once. So, Mike, what about you? Has there been any shakeups that have surprised you so far? uh i don't know about any shake-ups it's just unfortunate to me that uh immaculate and lodge ended up against each other so early because i would have thought both those two are amongst the better movies and conversely i'm sad that in the earth actually went around but

It was better than the movie is up against. But I would say those are my only two things. Yeah, I'm super surprised that The Lodge and Immaculate were on like the first round of brackets. And I still have my wild card and I might be. A little bitter, Mike, that you said if it was the other way around, you would have used your wild card.

It knocked me out, so I might be hanging on to that for a reason. I did not say that, and I was definitely not being sarcastic. You were assuming I was being sarcastic. You should not assume such things as me.

I have to continue. I did a confirmation. I did a competency check. I was like, Mike, so are you saying blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? And he was like, I would not be that mean. I know it's hard, Susie. It's already been two weeks. We can't remember the conversation we had on the recording. Oh, that's...

That's funny because we're still here three hours later. Anyway, to answer your question, though, guys, I wanted to share with you the seeds. So how those two films ended up together. So Immaculate was seed 18 out of 22.

And the Lodge was seed 15 out of 22. So that's how they ended up together in the first round. Basically, they're both very... were rated poorly and they shouldn't have been in our opinion at least for either of them yeah they have very low imdb scores the rotten tomato scores are are pretty high but imdb took them down real far i'm not surprised by anything

up until this point i'm actually surprised one thing i will say is i think i was surprised that you guys both liked assassination nation i didn't think you guys would be fans of that kind of humor and style but i think you liked it enough

Enough to get me into the next round, which that's all that matters to me. So amazing. Speaking of next rounds, we are going to be heading into the secondary rounds tonight. And this is officially a mix of films. that we've already reviewed and films that haven't been introduced yet.

In rounds where there's a film we haven't already scored, we'll discuss that film first, and then we'll give the host a chance to talk about the two in comparison. So at this point, this is when wild cards are going to become especially important. So Susie, why don't you take us into round... one of the secondaries.

So for round one, we have Parasite, which we haven't reviewed yet, going up against Assassination Nation, which was the winner of Prelim 1. So Parasite from 2019, greed and class discrimination threatened.

the newly formed symbiotic relationship between the wealthy Park family and the destitute Kim clan. So. parasite premiered at the 2019 canes film festival and it became the first korean film to win its top prize and then it was released and just kept winning prize after prize after prize so 500 filmmakers and actors ranked Parasite, the number one film of the 21st century, and currently on Rotten Tomatoes, number one.

So I have a question for you, and this could be an opening thought. Why is this recognized as one of the greatest movies of all time? I mean, somebody explain why, because I don't think it's as good.

as everybody's saying it is. It's basically just a fun mystery movie where some lower-income people infiltrate a rich household and try and take over, but their plans get foiled in the third act. I didn't love this as much as... i guess everyone else did what are your opening thoughts i think so it's this is a hard film to argue with so this is one of those films that is so

like prolific that it's hard old boy which we'll get to in this episode as well as also one of those films it's so prolific it's hard to argue against i think what why people love this film so much and i i enjoy this film i

This is my second time seeing it on the rewatch, and I didn't love it as much as the first time. And I think that's a big piece of it. When you watch this film for the first time, it... unravels really nicely it's super fucking funny this is a true black comedy and i also feel like it's one of those instances of a film that has a lot of cultural humor that also goes across cultural lines so

It did very well here in the United States, even with folks reading this as a subtitled film. The film on Netflix does not have a dubbed version. It's only subtitles, which just shows how good the film performs on a U.S. audience. I think it's that effect, Susie, that when the twist is revealed for the first time, I think that's what really gets people and it's really memorable. I mean, I like Parasite. I have great memories of seeing it for the first time. On the rewatch, it was...

very very long in my opinion to get through but those are my opening thoughts i would say what about you mike yeah so i love this movie now as far as a horror movie i don't know that we can really classify that despite the bloody climax which i guess is what would qualify it um

I get why people think it's one of the best films of recent times. I don't know about best film of the century, but I do think it's brilliant. And even on the rewatch, I think I still appreciated it, even though I knew it was going to happen. It's so funny.

um and again it is a black comedy but i think it's really good i think it's very well paced until the denouement at the end which drags too long for me at the end and it just does have one of the all-time hard left turns like and it's like an hour and seven minutes in i clocked it because i was curious how long it takes

takes and it's an entirely different movie after that but i think you know straight down cinematography storytelling acting i'm going to be able to score this real high because i think it's pretty awesome and i enjoyed it just as much in the second time as i did the first time well let's get into the storytelling so i this movie's a lot like well no salt burn is actually a lot like this movie that's so funny i was like salt burn is like the american version of this so just

just food for thought there so there's this destitute family and they're the parasites you can see them doing a lot of parasitic things in the beginning of this movie they're stealing wi-fi they're taking advantage of like this pizza box situation. And there's even a scene in the beginning where there's somebody in the street like fumigating and all of the spray like goes into their little apartment there and they actually get sprayed.

which causes them to flee. And then they infiltrate the rich family and we get this huge plot. plot twist at the end and since mike you really love this movie do you want to explain that because you even timed it out what happens when it takes that left turn yeah so this whole time is about how this quote-unquote parasitic family works their way to start working for the same rich family and i'll get into a little bit with the storytelling in a minute but then you realize

at this moment that so there was a woman who had been like a caretaker there before and this family gets her fired well you realize that her husband has been living in the basement of this rich person's house the entire time this movie's been going on and we had no idea

And then we'll just say hilarity ensues, violence ensues. And because these family wants to keep their jobs, they want to keep the money they're starting to experience and all this stuff. And the rich family is out of town when they find this other husband live in the basement.

So yeah, you don't see it coming at all. Maybe there are hints to it, I guess, along the way, but it's totally random, but awesome. And then the rest of the movie is these two different kind of parasitic families having a conflict and how that plays out. uh until eventually things will literally spill out uh up above and there are some really like clever aspects that almost are

You see them happening but don't realize they're happening. Like the housekeeper's husband uses his head to turn on the lights.

yes like that's where the dark comedy element and the storytelling like really shined through for me um lonely what are your do we do opening thoughts yeah we're on storytelling so my thoughts on the storytelling is i think this is to mike's point you know we have like parasitic inception here so not only is the family our main cast of characters they're being parasitic in their like

conniving ways of basically grifting this family. But we find out that there is also another parasite living in their house, which is the guy living in the basement. I think the unraveling of this story is super entertaining. It also has a couple like what I call false endings. So there are times when you think the movie has come to some kind of conclusion and it hasn't. It keeps going.

It's super fucking funny. I think it is super entertaining. And honestly, this is probably one of the best written stories of the last two decades, at least. It is super... fun to watch i think this would also make a really great book if it's not already based on some kind of literature but i have to be that person this movie is really long this movie is also very long on the rewatch it's

I have a lot of skepticism over films that are over two hours long, because I just think if you're going to go past that 90 minute mark, which is what the mass audience is going to be expecting, you really need to have something to say. And when you look at this film, I feel like there's a significant amount of exposition that though it's fun to watch the first time around is kind of just filler for the story when you get through it a second time.

I mean, this still is one of the greatest stories we've seen in modern cinema, but I do think it's pretty freaking long. Is it though? I mean, I'm just thinking I liked the Nightingale. 10 times more than this. And I thought that story was way more prolific, but we're not arguing that out on the neon cage match. We are trying to figure out the best of neon. So one thing I did notice and I questioned.

this film made me wonder like did each family earn their place in life or do these families just exist because of nepotism or was the park family really earning their way into their wealth and was the other family just kind of a little bit lazy until they figured out they could be parasitic it's a huge commentary on class and you see that symbolically in the storytelling there's a bunch of

scenes where there's stairs literally everywhere in this movie there are stairs which i i researched was to represent the class system and climbing the class system Did you see any other symbolism in this movie that really brought the storytelling together for you? I don't know about symbolism, but I agree that storytelling is really excellent. I just love the way that the parasitic family is described.

and how it actually makes sense how they kind of con their way into each of them having a job in the family the way that it's all set up and told and it makes sense uh is fantastic um I do think, like I said, I think where it gets too long is after the climactic scene where the father kills the rich father.

sorry i remember their names off the top of my head um and then he ends up living in the basement and then it still goes on for like another 15 minutes and that's where it kind of loses me at the very end if i had to you know clip a point or two here But otherwise, I just think it's fantastic. It's a good story. It's really interesting and everything quite like it. I love I do love what you said. It's symbolism up the stairs and stuff like literally the family lives like underground.

like their house is like below everything so that's why you said the fumigation goes in when there's a flood later it's completely flooded um yet they have to climb up to the toilet which is a really interesting little set piece i think they have there But yeah, all of that is clear about the class, and I thought that was pretty cool. So let's move on to cinematography, because that kind of goes along with this idea that the stairs and the class system and the way this was shot.

I think the director really was purposeful with his shots. There are a bunch of scenes where there is a line right in the middle of the two families.

interacting with each other so one is on one side of the line and one family is on the other side of the line and the parks patriarch often mentions how he doesn't like people crossing the line and that was very deliberate in the way this was shot i give this movie a lot of credit for the the thoughtfulness and the cinematography what do you think about that

I really love how composed these shots are because one of the best things on the rewatch is that if you pay attention to what's happening... outside of the direct view of the shot. There's so many other details. One of my favorite details that's carried throughout the film is the rock that the son is gifted from his classmate, like early on in the film.

Almost every shot in the apartment following has The Rock in it. And I think that's a really funny... just like note to the the beginning of the film and you can also catch certain things like in the big scuffle scene where they're fighting over the cell phone if you look at the outside of the shot there's like a bunch of other comedy that you catch like with the other characters characters.

And that really takes a lot of skill to compose a shot like that where there's multiple parts of the story happening at the same time that are both entertaining. And the shots of the house, I mean, the house is gorgeous on its own, but the framing of how the windows look.

I think the windows are also a big part of this because this idea of like looking in and like seeing people for what they are and not seeing certain things. I think the house is a really interesting like storytelling method in terms of the cinematography.

yeah and then going kind of with that metaphor a little bit i like when everything is literally out in the open when they have like the garden party at the end i thought i remember there's some good shots of uh the setup for the party and then obviously which leads to um the dad losing it and uh

and going on a a violent spree there so yeah no i think it's obviously i mean bong joong is it bong joon ho i always say his name wrong um is a master at this stuff so i mean he he makes everything look good and yeah it's a lot of thought clearly went into so much of the shot composition I think a lot of thought went into the actors he chose for these characters too, because...

I think every single actor hit it out of the park. They were believable. They really embodied their character, especially both patriarchs from both families were so starkly different. It was believable for me. What did you think of the acting lonely? I love the acting in this. I think this is amazing comedic acting. This is like a masterclass on how to do like a dark comedy in a way that's entertaining, not over the top.

The delivery, the comedic timing on these lines is stellar. It landed every time for me. I think every joke that they handed to us, I laughed at. I thought it was all great. And I also love... I'm a big fan of ensemble horror. I know we can get into whether or not this is actually a horror film, but this is a great ensemble character piece. I think each actor plays their character very, very well.

their personalities become very clear even as they change between identities like you can still tell you know the kim family you can still see their personalities in the identities that they take later on in the house and i think that's that's like really complex acting like this is like Yeah, exactly. This is a really impressive project. But I think the next point should be whether or not this is a horror film. But before we get there, Mike acting.

oh yeah i mean it's really interesting this movie is that so many of the characters are actually really likable but you shouldn't like them like for a variety of different reasons you know because they're either con men or because they're

very snooty about the lower class or whatever but for the most part i found most people likable and i think a lot of that does go to the performances that they were able to pull off both sides of what they were doing so yeah this is a true yeah ensemble is a great way to put it to one of the best ensemble

performances you're probably likely to see. Song Kang-ho, who is going to be in a movie we're going to talk about a little bit later, I think he definitely stole the show by far. But your question, Lonely, is this a horror movie?

My answer is no. There was no scares whatsoever. There was maybe like a startling moment when... they were kicking somebody down the stairs or they poisoned the maid and she ends up dying or the last scene of the stabbing but overall i think this is more of a like dark comedy dark dramedy i agree completely i think there's less unlike you know like new order or

you know, Assassination Nation where maybe there's not full horror elements on there and they may be more so thrillers. The idea of what's going on there can drive the horror. I think the... What is supposed to be horrific about this is like the class issue. And I think it's just not enough to like testify a horror film. I think it makes a good.

drama or a good thriller but I don't even think we get quite to thriller I do think drama is the correct word for it but Mike what do you think yeah i don't think it's a horror movie the only thing i noted is i guess could be creepy is when you know the son dasong thinks there's a ghost and there's like one scene of what he thinks is a ghost in the stairs and it's kind of creepy but we know what's really going on so yeah not so much a horror movie for me

Right. Well, let's score this. I think this is going to be an interesting scoring. But all right, Susie, cinematography. Oh, the cinematography was great. It had a lot to do with the house, but the different levels that we're filming at and the different locations, it all felt real and like it went together. So I gave a nine for cinematography for this one. And Mike?

I had an eight. I also had an eight. All right, Susie, storytelling. Storytelling was an eight. Mike? It was a nine for me. And I also gave it an eight. All right, acting. Nine for me. Nine for me. And I did an eight. And then scares. I think this is going to probably be uniform. One. One. All right. Ones across the board. And that is. That's going to take a major hit. So let's see.

So Parasite comes out to be a 79 and this is a secondary round up against Assassination Nation and Assassination Nation does have a 71. Oh, not out. Are you using your wild card, Lonely? I'm in deep thought. That is in dead air, listeners. That's deep thought. It's tricky because, I mean, Assassination is more of a horror movie is the problem. But Parasite is one of the greatest movies of the last 20 years, as many people say. This is tough. Right. OK, so I know.

One thing that we had talked about in previous episodes on the editor's notes, which listeners don't hear, is how to use wildcards as a classifier. So you know what? I'm going to get so much hate on the internet, but... It is what it is. Nothing new to me. I am going to rescore. I'm going to rescore. And I'm going to use my wild card in the context of Parasite specifically as a horror film. And I'm going to rescore storytelling to a six.

And I'm going to rescore. Actually, I'm not going to rescore anything. I'm going to take the lose. I'm just going to do it. Because no matter how I rescore this. It just doesn't seem fair. I can't bring the points down that low. To bring it down by seven points just doesn't seem fair. So unfortunately, I think this means I'm out. This is where I leave listeners. And now Susie and Mike have to record for another 45 minutes and I get to go to bed. Negative Ghost Rider.

All right, I'm out. Yet another fucking cage match where I am eliminated. So Susie, if you don't bring this home, we're going to have to retire this series because we never fucking win. I have already lost. Immaculate's out. Are you serious? Yes. And you didn't rescore? No, I didn't. Okay, so now we're going to have to fucking rescore so Mike doesn't win. Okay. Deal. Let's see how it is. All right.

Let's go. Let's go. So into round two. So now listeners, what we are doing now is just seeing. If Mike's going to come out on top with the lodge, because Susie and I are already out. And round two, keeping in line with Parasite. We're starting off with Oldboy. 2003 after being kidnapped and imprisoned for 15 years odesu is released only to find out he must track down his captor in five days so old boy like Parasite, is one of the most prolific films ever made. And I think for opening thoughts...

This was my first time watching Oldboy. I had never seen it before. And I had been told for many, many years that I should watch it. And maybe that's why I was disappointed. I was disappointed by this. I found the plot very confusing, personally, and I found it really, really hard to follow. And I feel like there was a lot of plot holes that were not addressed, in my humble opinion. I don't think this is a bad film.

But I wasn't a huge fan of what it was trying to do. Susie, what about you? I'm going to let Mike go because I'm going to help break down the plot for you afterwards. So, Mike, what are your opening thoughts? yeah uh so i had never seen it either and again have been told many times to see it i know it's considered a masterpiece and i definitely can see why it wasn't my thing though necessarily again don't think it's a bad movie at all i actually thought the story was pretty incredible

Definitely kept taking turns I did not expect. I loved the subversion of the, you know, the drunken loser trains up to be this ass-kicking vigilante, but in the end, he's actually just still a loser. Like, I think that's pretty good.

pretty cool and a different different way to tell that story um it's just not my kind of genre movie i guess um so i'm very glad i saw it i don't think i'll ever watch it again but i do think it's a good movie again we can get into whether it's horror or not but um i get the love it's just not my sort of thing i guess is the simplest way to say it all right so this is my sort of movie which is probably going to throw a lot of people weird looks because why um

I think where the problem comes with you two and this movie is you're watching it now in 2025. I saw this movie. 20 years ago when i was like super into this type of this whole genre it's korean right this is a korean horror movie well a korean movie yeah

this movie was the first movie that had a twist where I was like jaw to the floor and now I feel like we get so many twists that if you're watching this movie now you're like oh well okay so what i've seen that before so in this movie you have this man who's been captive for 15 years and he doesn't know why or by who and we don't know that either and then you have like the best twist in the movie because we find out that this man wushin kidnapped this other man day shoe

because of a rumor that wuxin started when they were younger he's told everybody in the school that wuxin was having relations with his sister his sister got pregnant and ended up killing herself so this is kind of like his revenge and you find this out and then after 15 years wuxin lets daishu out and daishu wants to know why did you hold me captive for 15 years and

And then there's like a prolific quote where Wuxian says, you're asking the wrong question. You should ask, why did I let you out after 15 years? And then we find out that Daishu ended up following. falling in love with this woman and we find out that it's actually who is it his daughter yes and so it's like this weird ironic twist where what was happening with wuxian and his sister is now happening with daishu and his daughter the best part about this movie is there's no likable characters

Everybody freaking sucks. But you are tricked into really, really liking Daishu and rooting for him. And then you're like, no. He was terrible, too. And just that like roller coaster of emotions for me was just amazing. It's super unpredictable. It's not. too far-fetched but far-fetched enough and there's also amazing action scenes i don't know this movie i understand why people love it i think it's right up there with parasite and a lot of people have said that

So let's I think we kind of hit on the storytelling basically already that this is kind of a long and winding story. It's a dark comedy. I think for me, the dark comedy didn't always hit.

where it needed to i didn't find some of this very funny like even for a dark comedy i felt i found some of it kind of like in poor taste but this was also made like 13 years ago so i think from here we can probably go into the acting um i think the characters are great i think the where the comedy is the comedic timing is good um but again

Where this loses me is that it drastically needed some editing and brevity, in my opinion. I still think this is way too long. I think this is way too long. But Mike, what did you think of the acting? Yeah, I thought the acting was pretty solid for sure. And again, it helps that it's such a compelling story with so many twists and turns that the actors are kind of gifted that script. But no, I thought they did a good job and I found them all pretty believable for sure. It's a good acting.

This movie's like 22 years old. 2003. LOL, I'm still living in 2010, perpetually forever. It is not that, so that's awesome. This was pretty groundbreaking when it came out. Right. right yeah let's talk about the cinematography so the Director of this film is actually regarded as one of the most famous and prolific directors in Korea. And he's actually the director of Thirst as well, which we've reviewed on the show. I think the cinematography is very impressive. A lot of the camera...

work is very very impressive like it takes legitimate skill to like operate a camera in the way that it's used in this film one of the shots that's talked about most often is the shot where he's fighting all of the people in the hallway that was filmed in very special way. So it was all one shot. And yeah, I mean, it's great. It's probably some of the best camera work that's regarded in modern film. So I really can't argue with that, but Mike, what do you have to say about that one?

Yeah, you stole the scene. I was gonna mention that fight scene is awesome and In the hallway, but it keeps going back and forth. There's more dudes coming from either side. Yeah, it's absolutely fantastic This yeah Park Chan-wook is obviously another genius out of Korea and has continued to have a good career in this it's understandable why he was given so many more opportunities after this one because he is he is a wizard behind the camera for certain

Oh yeah, the way he shot the elevator scene. And there's even scenes where, you know, somebody's holding chopsticks and you see their eyes through the chopsticks. Like every... scene was set up even in the hotel room where they have the girls sitting with the wings it was thoughtful i think this probably had the best cinematography out of all of

not all of them most of the movies we we've talked about tonight and the scares so we've kind of talked about how this is not quite a horror film but there are some pretty graphic scenes of violence in this i would say some pretty graphic body horror and of course we have the iconic i don't know if we can call it iconic uh the problematic octopus scene that

was very hard for me to watch so the one thing i knew about old boy after all these years was the octopus scene i knew that there was a live octopus in the film that gets eaten and that was like a big controversy now and at the time of filming because I think most countries have laws where you can't harm or kill an animal live on screen. But it's an octopus. Like you can do it in a restaurant. Yeah, so maybe that's how they got away with it then. So...

The octopus scene is pretty nauseating, in my humble opinion, because it's like suctioning to his face as he's like biting on it. And I can only imagine how like terrible that feels. But other than that, it's not a particularly scary film. Mike, anything to add? Nah, I didn't have much on the wave scares at all in this one. No, nothing. So I was the only one impacted by the octopus? I think it was gross. It was gross, for sure. It was not scary.

All right. Well, I think we should score it then. Susie, what are you giving this for cinematography? I gave this a nine for cinematography. I love this one. I gave this an eight. I also gave it an eight. All right. And storytelling, Susie? Storytelling. I love this movie. I love it. I love the twist. And I love how you feel bad about yourself for caring about the characters. I gave it an eight.

Same. Eight. Okay. No, I gave this a six. I'm clearly the outlier, which is fine. Susie, what did you give this for acting? Acting, I gave it an eight. I thought everybody was pretty great. I did a seven. Same. I'm seven. All right. And scares, Susie? It wasn't very scary, unfortunately. One. All right. I gave this a three for the octopus. I had a one. All right. So that brings old boy to a 74.

And we are going into the next film, which is just a crazy mashup, crazy, crazy two films to put up against one another. One of the most prolific films of all time. And then she dies tomorrow from 2020. One of Susie's feeds.

one of susie's faves and we've actually already reviewed this film on the show before so susie and i will kind of not say too much here we'll let mike kind of weigh in um she dies tomorrow follows a woman who becomes strangely convinced that she will die the next day her friend initially disbelieves her is that a word disbelieves her mike fact check that disbelieves um i don't think so i've never heard any of them say that disbelief is a word i think disbelieves

You just don't believe. Her friend does not believe her. And she becomes very paranoid that she herself will die the next day. So this film. I mean, I think that's a good synopsis of what we get here. We have these two women, you know, the film starts and we get about 20 minutes of the first character coping with the fact that she's going to die tomorrow. And then...

The script switches and we end up with her friend who is now dealing with the same thing. Mike, what are your opening thoughts on this one? OK, I'm about to be maybe disowned. I somehow don't remember you guys reviewing this. So either. I blocked that from my memory or I just don't remember. I like it. Okay. Well, let me, I'm just going to write what I wrote. I'm going to feel my feelings and it's going to be okay. This is what I wrote.

I don't think I've ever hated a movie as much as I hated this movie. It was dumb. I thought it was clever and saying something big about intrusive thoughts or something similar, but it was just dumb. I fucking hated the first 20 minutes of this movie so much that had it not been later in the evening, I was about to start texting you guys my irritation.

The script was inane. There was no storytelling. The performances were mostly embarrassing. The premise was flat. The cinematography was trying too hard. I hated, hated, hated this movie. Also, why is everything open at night in this movie? Like, they just go get some dune buggies?

Doctor's office just opened in the middle of the night. I don't get it. I really dislike this movie. I'm so sorry, Susie. That's okay. I feel like this is a mostly hated movie by a lot of people. But on IMDb, it's got a five, so it's mid there.

this movie like what if death death were contagious isn't that the same thing we see in smile basically and kind of a little bit So, you know, you're not entirely wrong because in the Reddit reviews of this film in particular, they compare it to It Follows, like a more lofty... like highbrow version of it i think where she dies tomorrow so mike you might not remember the full review of this because i actually dnf'd this so it was in a mixtape episode and i didn't finish it

So we did probably a partial review of it on our first mix tape. I think the plot... Like the idea of what is happening here is supposed to be scary. And the premise itself is thought provoking. Like, what would you do if you legitimately knew that you were going to die? Like, what would you do? How would you spend that time? I think that's a thought-provoking premise. Maybe not for a horror film, and maybe not for a feature-length film.

I think the other place that it has some gaps is that it borders absurdist film. And I'm just not an audience for absurdist films. I don't find them entertaining. I think this is where we find this is no surprise to literally anyone. I'm very literal when it comes to film. And I think absurdist is just not an area I really excel in. So that's my thoughts on the storytelling, Susie. I don't think this is a story about a plot.

of anything that should make sense it's more of a feeling and it's more of like thought provoking so we have all these symbols of life and death and balance we've got her our original character you know kind of tortured over the fact she had an abortion and i think that's what she's seeing right before you know like it's flashing through her eyes and you see the beating heart then there's the birthday the celebration of the birthday so that's like birth

then there's a scene where you see like them drawing with ash by the pool and like ashes could represent dove i don't know so what was this film saying it there's this there's one quote at the end that says you know right before their main character our first character is going to die she says like it's okay it's not okay

So you could look at it a few ways, but I took it as a commentary on like how people approach death. Like, are you someone who's like, it's okay, it's going to happen? Or are you somebody who's like, this is going to like rule. everything this is gonna like all i can think about because characters dealt with it in different ways in the movie i like this movie it was a vibe for me i think most people will hate it so i think the

I think the reviews are pretty unanimous at this point. Mike, do you have any closing thoughts before we score? I don't. I mean, I do. The idea of what would you do if you knew this was going to happen like that is a decent start. And even the. idea of it being an intrusive thought even if it wasn't going to happen right but you just can't get it out of your head like that part and the idea that that could pass on to someone like that part alone could be good for something but that was not this

That's where it ended for me. Everything else was just awful beyond it. But I will give you that there is an interesting question somewhere buried in this. I'll take it. Well, let's score it. And I think this is, again, a wild fucking matchup. mike what are you giving this for cinematography one one okay what i gave it a black screen like what is wrong with you i gave it a seven

All right, Mike, storytelling. One. All right, I gave it a two. I gave it a six. All right, Mike, acting. Two, actually. I gave it a four. This is like indie acting. Get with it. I gave it a seven. And scare is a one, okay? Fuck me. One. Okay, one's across the board. And that brings... Is it anywhere close to beating Oldboy? Just kidding. It was really... It was a tight race. It was a tight, tight margin.

It comes to 38, and that makes She Dies Tomorrow our lowest-ranking film of the cage match at this point. And Oldboy will be moving on to the next round. All right. So round three.

We are up to, I'm going to say this wrong, Titan, I believe is the French way to say it. From 2021, this follows a series of unexplained crimes. A father is reunited with the son. who has been missing for 10 years wow that's a really interesting way to say what happens in this movie um so i'm gonna be honest i was not looking forward to watching this one i kept putting it off just because i'd heard it was not a very easy watch

And it isn't. But I thought it was really weird and pretty wonderful, actually. I didn't expect it to be funny, but it actually is at times. Particularly, there's a scene where our main character, who is a murderer.

um finds out there's other people living in the house of the person she's murdering and has to keep trying to murder them and i thought it was perfect um i did lose me a little bit i don't understand the logic of if you are running away from the police you're fugitive and all of a sudden she pretends to be the long lost son of a fire captain i don't know how that's the best way to get away with what she's doing um but yeah this movie is something else it is it is not boring um

And it is unlike anything I've ever seen. And I have to say, for the most part, I enjoyed my time with it. What do you guys think? Well, I thought this was... bizarre movie that i didn't think i also didn't think i was gonna like and then when i watched it and i started like reading and well not reading into it looking into it and like uncovering some things it really said a lot about gender

sexuality and how our bodies like reflect to others how like, how can I say this? We're judged based a lot on what we look like. rather than the traits we have and i think this movie delved into that aspect of human nature so i think this film is very original i think it It gets points for how original it is. And this is, oh my God, is this Decor now? This is the same director as Ra, right?

That's at that point in the night where I'm like, who directed what? Yeah. So as a second, as her sophomore film, it's not, I think Raw is a hard film to beat. So I was disappointed by this film. I think. The storytelling is a little too trippy for me. There's a lot that misses me. We see the main character lose control of her body, her identity, and what that means for her in the context of the story.

I just found it hard to follow. I found it kind of loosely threaded throughout, but maybe you guys will convince me otherwise. Well, at first, she's this very overtly sexual woman.

with like wearing fishnets and like she's the car model but she's also like super aggressive and that doesn't really match the way her body looks and then she transforms her body by taping up her breasts and like kind of smashing up her face but then she turns into this very like docile caring empathetic person which i thought was just like wow that was just like a wow moment for me

Yeah, so if we're going to go into the storytelling, it's a little bit hard to follow everything that's going on. I mean, it starts, she's in a car.

if i remember she's either yelling at her father or having some sort of conflict there and there's an accident and and then yeah she becomes this car model and she's turned on by the cars like that's what i had heard about this movie was that part of it and i expected it to be mostly about that but it's not really um it's just i mean it's partially so so yeah then we find out she's a serial killer and

Basically, she kills all these people and then she's on the run. And as I said before, she becomes his fire captain's long lost son. And no one, including the fire captain, really, in the end, I think, believes that's who it is. But he's just willing to accept it to have. you know his son returned to him um and all that was all very strange to me as to why that's going on and then she has her body is changing and she's got she has a metal inside her i mean it's all sorts of crazy stuff

So yeah, the storytelling is kind of a bit all over the place. I would not say it was the strongest part for me. It was very strange and a bit hard to follow. Susie, maybe you did better than me. I don't know. I just thought it was a story about metamorphosis.

trauma because the titanium plate in her head was because of the car accident that she ended up she was the cause of when she was younger and she never like was able to let that go and that was also like a huge event that probably pushed her away from her family because they blamed her for it so i think there was a lot of layers in this movie we're not going to be able to explain the plot the story or anything what

i think this movie did that none of the movies that on here did was it had a very very shocking scene and i don't know if it was very horrific but the whole cars when she's like birthing the car are we going to talk about that Yeah, I was going to put that with the scares. We got that up. The scares is the right word. So let me ask this, though. Do you think, are we just supposed to understand that because she had that head trauma titanium plate, is that also what made her this violent?

so is that that's kind of how i took it this is the research that i did because again when i don't understand something i research it and i'm like maybe it's me maybe i am the problem so you need Similarly, the cuckoo where you need to know things about cuckoo birds in this film, you know, things about titanium. So titanium is typically a.

safe implant grade metal, but in some cases it can cause toxicity. So are we supposed to believe that all of this downward spiral is a direct result of her having a titanium implant? like is that how we got here is that to your point mike it's like is that how all of this begins very unsure but i think that also with the title sorry i have the hiccups now with the title being

Titan A or whatever we say it in French, I think the role of Titanium probably has more. Oh, my God. A role in the film than we think. Yeah, I think I agree. All right. So let's move on to the acting because that is definitely a strong point here.

Everybody, yeah. I think particularly our lead, Agath Roussel, I wrote her name down. I think that's how you'd say it. I mean, that's an Oscar-worthy performance. What she had to do physically for this role and the way she's able to play, like you said, both docile.

uh both also like stalking she is absolutely unbelievable in this movie it is one of the better performances i've seen in a while i thought what do you guys think uh susie we can't forget about the fire captain too like we see a huge transformation in him as well yeah agreed he was also excellent what do you think lonely i think they're oh they're

I preferred the main lead over the fire captain for sure. I found the fire captain to be a little one note in terms of the story, but I did think the lead was in the physicality of the role definitely comes through. So yeah, definitely. All right, let's go on to cinematography. I thought it was fine. I don't remember being blown away by a whole lot. Yeah, I don't have a lot to say about it.

I thought it was fine, though. Maybe a little above average, but nothing that I remember stood out as far as cinematography. Susie? I would say above average. I think a lot of it comes down to that car birthing scene. with the like i remember like blue lights and it like gave me alien vibes just the way things were happening but you're right nothing spectacular

I think the opening scene is kind of cool. It sets an interesting juxtaposition of what's going to come for the rest of the film, because in the opening scene, we have all like, it's the car show, so it's the lights and the cameras and then that. we get very far from that as the story continues to go on so i say agreed above average with a couple like shining moments are we ready to score uh we talked about scares do you want to talk about the scares i think we skipped that

wasn't very scary brutal maybe yeah it made me squirm i mean i squirmed and grimaced several times in the movie so i'll give credit for that yeah the body horror is very intense i mean she gives birth to a car so And it is a rough go. Score away. All right. Susie, what are you giving this for cinematography? Okay, it is six. All right. Mike? Six.

I give this a five. Storytelling, Susie? I gave this an eight just because of the way it dealt with gender and sexuality. Mike? I gave it a five just because it's a little bit hard to follow at times. I also gave it a five. Susie acting. Acting was a nine for me. I liked the lead here is amazing. And Mike. I actually gave it a 10 and almost just for the lead. I was so blown away by her. Yeah. I did a seven. And scares, Susie? Two. Wasn't very scary. Just that body horror.

Mike? I gave it a five. It made me squirm. Yeah, I gave a five as well, which brings Titane, Titane, whatever we're calling it, to a 73. Okay. Alright, so this is a secondary round, so that means that It Lives Inside is up against this film, and It Lives Inside had a 67, so not a wide margin.

But Titan A is going to take into the quarterly round. Does anybody want to rescore? No, that deserves it. That's the right move. The correct move. All right. On to round four. all right round four brings us to the presence from 2024 the presence was not a present for us a family becomes convinced they're not alone after moving into their new home in the suburbs

Oh boy. This is really just a not so special movie about nothing. Lucy Liu. I don't know why she's in this. She added nothing to it. There's so much. just filler and boring scenes where nothing happens and then a movie where an ending that you could have predicted right away. So I liked this movie. So do you want to go in the middle? Do you like this movie? Because if not, I'll go last. You can go last, but I'm going to be closer to you. I really like this movie.

as a horror movie maybe not so much but uh i said i thought the premise was incredibly clever and i thought soderbergh executed it pretty brilliantly um you know despite the fact it is about you know a present There's supposed to be a ghost. There's not really much horror until the last final few minutes of the film, but I thought it was excellent. I thought there was great performances, especially from Lucy Liu, who was impossible to like in this movie.

uh i thought the story was good i actually literally wrote it's wonderfully briskly paced like even though it is mostly just talking i thought it i thought it moved at a pretty good pace it was very very well done so yeah i'm gonna be closer to you lonely what do you think i So is this a perfect film? No, but I thought this was creative as hell. And since this had a wide release in 2025, it is in my top contenders for top films in 2025.

I think this swung for the fences in the way it committed. We always have haunted house films and using it in this way was super fucking interesting. I thought the acting was quite good. I thought that it does probably skew closer to like thriller or drama, but I thought it was really interesting. I was not... I know some people didn't like this, but I haven't seen anybody as impassioned as you, Susie. My jaw is like dropped right now. I thought everybody was going to think this was ridiculous.

the characters are so overplayed the mom loving the son so much and like not liking the daughter they just like played into that way too much the characters didn't make sense and then they had the like the drug dealing friend who was like aggressive but then he just oh my god these were the most unbelievable characters in all of the movies we're talking about

And then you have Casper the fucking friendly ghost coming to save the day that you can see through the mirrors. No. Sorry. Yeah. So the premise of this is that we have this family that moves into a house. And the story is entirely told to the point of view of the entity or the spirit that lives in the house. And it's a very interesting first.

point of view into the house that we saw already and I am the pretty thing that lives in the house but go on but that movie is not good um it is very slow and bad in my humble opinion um but such as the way of reviewing films.

so that's the premise we follow the family it's a family drama um there is a slew of strange suicides that have happened in the town and the the daughter of the family has lost one of her friends and she's coping with that death and we sort of unwrap the story of that friend's suicide and how the characters are sort of interconnected.

And in terms of the story, I think it is a little bit wacky. I mean, it's how we get to the ending is a little interesting, especially when we get to the parts about like the drugs and the way. So the story. The twist is someone's actually killing these girls. The drug dealer is killing them because he's a smart serial killer. That guy is a fucking douchebag. He didn't leave a fingerprint. I really thought that...

That was also a scary part for me. It was how insidious and creepy this character was. But yeah, so I thought it was successful storytelling because it... is insidious it's an insidious story that builds and builds and builds and i think there's enough revealed in the pacing that it keeps you entertained it had me guessing it had me wanting to know what was going to happen

I thought the characters were believable for what they were. I really thought the main lead girl did an excellent job. Susie, obviously you were not a fan, but Mike, what did you think?

yeah i mean it's committing to the bit right i mean he came up with this idea i guess the writer did but of okay we're going to tell this story entirely from the point of view of the presence that lives in the house and it was committed to that and they and i'll talk a little bit more about that with the cinematography but

The fact that they didn't abandon that at any point and found a way to tell the story and make it work from that, I just think is so brilliant. Like that is not an easy thing to pull off. And I thought they did so. How did you not make it work? The presence could be anywhere you wanted it to be. You know how sometimes people will do these gimmick films and then they'll abandon it halfway. It's like when you have a found-fitted film and then suddenly...

we're not actually looking at the found footage anymore i mean that's a more basic example obviously um but yeah but i mean the fact that uk you can't i mean yes it does help obviously the presence could be anywhere but we have to go with it wherever it's going multiple places at once you know that sort of thing And that brings us to the cinematography, which I'm assuming you like, which I thought was so silly. The camera following.

the characters and the panning shots and the 360 shot shots it's like how much garbage can we just throw into a movie and do all this different stuff so that we can be the presence following things but nobody ever really knows I was a big fan of the work in the house because I think it's the character is the presence or whatever the ghost is, but it's also like the house itself is a character.

And I always love a bit like that where the house is part of the story. I think that the way the camera moves is very voyeuristic. And we're seeing this family's dirty laundry. I guess in a lot of ways it's a family drama and not so much a horror film, if that's what you want to call it, or a drama thriller type situation. But I thought it was really creative. And one thing that, other than the camera, one thing that's really...

like prominent in the film, as well as the use of light in the rooms to like set the mood of what's going to happen in the scene. So the use of color and, you know, like the way that the bedrooms are lit, it just really adds to.

to the way the film looks in my opinion i feel like it's not in malignant before this yeah it was just again and it was simple but it was purposeful the idea that i mean you really felt like you were floating that could be your presence the movement felt that way the way they tried to convey almost emotions from the presence like it would duck back into the closet when it was a little bit afraid or sad

When it was angry, they did that pulse thing to give you that idea. Just clever, again, very simple, but clever things to let you know that that was a character in itself and what was going on. I thought that was all really well done. I don't know. I don't know how you could have done it better, I guess.

um well we'll just talk before we go into scoring i want to talk about the ending because the brother tackles the friend out of the window and they both die from falling out the second floor window And then at the end, the mom saying goodbye to the house looks in the mirror and she sees her son. And then we're supposed to also feel bad because she hates the daughter now blames it all on her. It just was so predictable.

and unbelievable you don't you don't die from falling out of second floor window especially if you land on top of somebody maybe they both landed head first i don't know They were also on drugs, but I mean, I thought the ending was kind of poignant because it actually.

gives you a question as if because like ghosts if you know things about ghosts there's different kinds of ghosts there's ghosts that like follow time loops meaning that they live the same like they act in their haunting as they acted in real life that's why ghosts walk through doors and stuff because they there was a door there at one point so it kind of brings this idea is the ghost in the house the brother all along from the start of the film

Like, has it always been the spirit of the brother? But he hadn't died yet. Right, but ghosts don't adhere to, like, linear timelines. But we could score it now.

What would you like to give it for cinematography, Mike? I had a nine because I thought it was pretty clever. I gave it an eight. What about you, Susie? I gave it a three. I feel like I saw that cinematography in Malignant already. All right. And storytelling, Mike, what did you give it? Eight. I gave it a seven. What about you, Susie? I gave it a three. I thought it was silly. All right. And Mike acting?

I gave it an 8. I did not like the drug pusher kid. I thought he was bad, but everyone else I thought was really good. I gave it a 7. Susie? I gave it a 3. Lucy Liu is terrible. And Mike Scares? Three. I gave us a four. Three. All right. And that brings presence up to a 66. Still not ballooned. Still not the lowest, no. And presence, since this is a second round, is going up against Cuckoo. And Cuckoo has a 76, so that is a 10-point difference. Would anybody like to rescore?

I'm going to rescore and give them all ones just so the presence can be even lower. Okay. Mike, any rescores? No, I'm fine with Cuckoo going through. That's fine. Okay, so I'm going to rescore Susie's just for the bit. And Susie, it's a 58, which is still not the lowest scoring film on the... on the bracket it's actually she dies tomorrow yeah she dies tomorrow is still the lowest score a film on the bracket which is super fun well Susie I think there may be

One too many ghosts in this house. I think it's time to cue Mike home. What do you think for this evening? Oh, we got to say goodbye to Mike already? I feel like he just got here. LOL. Just kidding, Mike. Are you still having fun? Tremendously. And I can't wait to be back for even more. Awesome. Well, I hope you can join us next week on the finale of the Neon Cage match. But until then, where can the listeners catch more of you and your work?

Excited for the bloody finale. You can find me at thatwhoreteacher at all the socials, Instagram mostly, xbluesky, all the above, where I'm posting movie reviews and general horror thoughts occasionally. Oh, and you can catch me sometimes on Instagram at projectile underscore underscore environment.

And you can find my horror reviews and rants for lonely souls over on Instagram at lonely horror club. I try to post reviews whenever I can and cause problems on filmstagram whenever possible. You can also find my writing on my website. LonelyHorrorClub.com Thank you, dear internet, for tuning in to episode 68 of Nobodies. As always, sources, additional reading, and all of that fun stuff will be in our show notes. Are you rioting over the scores so far?

If so, leave us a message. 617-431-4322. And keep up with our antics on Instagram at nobodieshorrorpodcast. And alas... But especially not least, we would love if you could like, subscribe or leave a review wherever you get your podcasts.

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