Episode 55: Is Horror Unapproachable?

Hello Internet Welcome to Nobodies, the horror content podcast where we clean up the ugly things so you don't have to. Our bi-weekly show features two hosts and rotating guest content experts. Tackling the nitty-gritty complex horror topics with the hope of making the genre more approachable for frequent flyers and newbies alike.

The goal of this show is to highlight diverse voices and perspectives in horror. This is your reminder that there may be discourse on this show that will challenge the way you look at the genre. So let's get ready to get ugly.

I'm the ghost with the blog, Lonely, and I'm joined by my co-host and partner in crime. I'm Susie, a.k.a. Projectile Vermin. And it is the blood moon, everyone. At the time of recording, we are currently under the blood moon. Can you see it where you are yet, Susie?

Well, I'm inside my house talking to you, so no. so you're not outside recording well you missed that memo but i have a question for you though like you are a witch it is a blood moon do witches do anything under the blood moon are you gonna dance naked in the woods it's quite cold for that activity but to answer the question simply yes people a lot of people do a lot of stuff during the blood moon because a lot of well most people do stuff during the full moon anyway

There's, you know, there's a lot of magic that I'm sure you've heard of moon water on the internet. I have not, no. What is moon water? So for a simple little witchcraft lesson, moon water is when you put a vessel of water out under the moonlight.

And it's supposed to absorb sort of the energy from the moon and the properties that the moon brings. And each different moon has, you know, a different meanings you know how there's like the harvest moon and the the cold moon and all of that so a blood moon has its own types of properties and it's particularly a powerful powerful moon and it's a lunar eclipse tonight so

honestly this probably would have killed other civilizations i think about that all the time like when prehistoric civilizations saw an eclipse like they probably truly thought it was the end like that was it that was it for them but that's enough about the moon even though we can go on for a while but tonight we're not talking about the moon though pencil that in susie maybe we can do a moon episode even though even though we talk about all kinds of different horror opinions on this show

I think we can all agree that being an active member in the horror community can sometimes feel a bit like an echo chamber. We're always talking to the same people about the same things about the same films. And we become so ingrained in consuming horror content constantly and seeing it to value that I think we often forget that there is a whole other group of people out there who don't watch horror or consume the content at all.

the normies yes the normies as we call them and we're what what's the opposite of a normie what are we we're the degenerates is that what the the opposite is like because we're not like punk At least for yourself, I'm totally a punk. We're like circles and squares, right? Like there are squares and we're circles. Sure. We're going through generations of slang here anyway.

What better way to bridge the gap in our collapsing society than have some of our sworn enemies on the show? Self-proclaimed horror haters. and see if we could convince them to come to the dark side, the punk side, the circular reality. So we each recruited a guest for tonight, and my first guest is Catherine. Catherine is my neighbor and my friend. She grew up in Europe, studied and worked in communications, international relations, and sustainability field.

and now she's a stay-at-home mom of three. She had mentioned to me that she doesn't really like horror movies, so like a good neighbor, I decided to force her to watch four horror movies and invite her on the show. so do you remember when i was talking about that letter i had to write to stephen king

Yes, I do remember. Okay, well that was Catherine who encouraged me to write it. Well, she actually said if I didn't write it, she wouldn't come on the show. So I wrote it and I sent it. I still had no reply, but at least we have Catherine here, which is just as good as Stephen King. Welcome, Catherine. Thank you both so much. Glad to be here. Wait, pause, pause, pause, pause. Do we have two people in the Susie neighborhood cinematic universe?

We have Night of the Living Ted and Catherine and Sarah. oh and sarah oh my god the universe expanse you said get guests these are these are the people i know it's like the milkman effect like whoever is in closest proximity will end up on the show that's insane anyway our next sacrifice I mean, yeah. is Abby. Abby is affectionately known as my normie friend. We met in college where we both studied communications and now she works in developing standard practices for the e-commerce industry.

If you can't tell, Abby is the smarter one of the two of us. And fun fact, Susie and Abby actually already know each other. They met in real life because

They were both in my wedding. See? She's the greatest. I love Abby. The sweetest. She's very calm. Calming energy. And she's a planner. But... she has been very clear with me that she does not like horror and she's very easily spooked and to this day she actually refuses to watch disney's halloween town because she's still a scarred from childhood

However, she enjoys supporting me and has been known to agree to things that I ask of her with very little context, like being in my wedding and when I asked her to watch some horror movies.

she decided it was time to face her fear head on after watching the films she definitely is still very easily spooked but she's here anyway welcome abby hi thank you susie now that we've expanded both the neighborhood and wedding universes let's get into it for tonight before we talk about all the actual movies we made our friends watch

we're going to keep our first question really basic. So what has your journey or exposure to horror media look like? And I'm going to start with you, Catherine, because On our walk the other week, you said you had a deep affinity for Law and Order, and then you told me you didn't like horror, so please tell me more. Sure. To be specific, it's Law & Order SVU, which my eldest son calls Good Cop, Bad Cop.

Yeah, I thought a lot about this because the reason of not liking horror, why it is because growing up, I do remember reading Stephen King's book. when I started having, you know, sleepovers in middle school and our parents would let us go rent a movie back in the days when you would go rent movies on our own. you know that would be like together you run a horror movie together you know and um

So it's not like I had zero exposure. Broadly answer your question, because I thought about this before watching these movies and as well as after watching them. I think most of all, if I'm going to watch a movie, it's mostly going to be for entertainment. Sure, once in a while I'll watch a documentary for the information or educational purposes, but mostly it's entertainment.

And I think many of the themes in horror Dealing with, you know, gore, creepiness, on the whole, I don't find very entertaining. That would be my short answer. I have a more elaborate answer after watching these movies. I don't know if it's appropriate to answer right now if you want to wait till later in the discussion.

Yeah, that's actually, you've already predicted the last question, Catherine, so you're already at the end of the game. No worries. No, I love when people are prepared. It's better than the alternative. So, Abby, you've mentioned that you are scarred. by Halloween Town. So is that where the horror journey started and ended? What has your exposure been like before this point? It's not where it ended, but it is where it started, and I just decided I didn't like it. Basically,

All of October, like I watched Disney Channel a lot as a kid, and all of October I kind of strayed away from it because it was just too much. There was just so much scary stuff on it. So that's all to say that I'm a winner. But no, so other than that, I don't think I really watched anything really scary. Like I used to watch detective shows when I was younger, like Rizzoli and Isles. That was a pretty good show. But that would also like if the episode was, you know.

freaky enough and yeah it would it would stay with me for a little bit but other than that The only real experience I have with like actual horror was one time in college like freshman year when like when we were still really new and like in those weird you know friend groups that weren't really friend groups i got invited to watch the exorcist and i showed up very purposefully late because i didn't think i'd be able to handle it

And I was there for the second half of it, and it wasn't that bad. It really wasn't that bad, but I just decided, you know, this... It's creepy. I'm good. This is not fun. It just kind of drafts. and freaks me out too much. So that's kind of where it ended there until I'm here watching four horror movies.

And I think this is the ending. This is the ending because it's not that great, guys. You could tell that this was before Abby and I met. Abby and I did become friends to like our second or third year of college and I would have told you to show up early. so you leave before the movie gets scarier abby you have to always come for the early part of the horror film and then leave because it gets worse i just thought that i could just

Only see the back half of it. Which is where all the bad stuff happens, as you probably gathered. Yeah, you're right.

So a lot of people find it really odd that I am a middle-aged woman that loves horror movies. But I actually find it odd that more people don't like horror or seek it out. especially with movies that are like the ones we're going to discuss tonight, like easy to watch, low gore, minimal jump scares. But over the last two seasons of our show, we've talked about the reasons why people are attracted to horror films. And I will just refresh your memory. Horror fans are often adrenaline seekers.

Some people are desensitized to horror as children like Lonely and I through age-appropriate TV and film and then seek it out as adults. Horror satisfies our curiosity about the darkness of human nature. Cesar Cruz, a Mexican poet, states, Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. So meaning horror can be more appealing to those with trauma and they might use it as, let's say, an emotional outlet. But why do some people dislike horror movies?

A 2020 study called Playing with Fear reports that almost a third of adults do not like horror. Lonely, can you tell us a little bit more about why? Yes. So in this study, people's responses to haunted house attractions were recorded on a scale. So these are, you know, the haunted houses that you would see at an amusement park or a state fair where you walk through and people jump out and scare you.

so the points that were recorded for each person who went through the haunted house was one point that was the self-reported symptoms of fear so basically how scared they were and one point was the self-reported symptoms for enjoyment so how much fun they were having while going through the haunted house And when you plot all of these points on a graph, we're going back to...

The statistics here, folks. So buckle up. When you plot these on a graph, they don't make a straight line or a linear graph. which would indicate that as fear increases, indefinitely so does enjoyment. That's not what happened. It created a bell curve or an upside down letter U, which indicates that there's sort of a peak point of fear that people experience.

where enjoyment is at its highest, and when fear continues to increase from there, they are no longer having fun. So there is a sweet spot of being both scared and having fun at the same time, which is where thrill seeking comes around. In simpler terms, this basically means that people don't want to be too scared. They don't want it to be not scary enough. They want it to be the perfect amount of scary. And this is what the study colloquially calls the sweet spot of fear.

This is all to say that sweet spots of fear depend deeply on a person's individual fear tolerance. So your fear tolerance is impacted by your own tendency to seek thrills, your personality, and prior exposure to scary situations. People who don't enjoy horror films have been reported to not having high levels of recreational fear seeking and have a lower sensation seeking tendency overall.

These people may thrill seek in other ways, like riding roller coasters, which are short bursts of fear, rather than extended periods of fear, like sitting through a whole horror film. It's also interesting to note that people often build a tolerance to horror over time and often need stronger or more fear-inducing content to reach a sweet spot of fear over time.

So after hearing some of these studies, what do we think? Catherine, Abby, do you feel like this captures why you don't like horror or why or why not? So Catherine, why don't you get us started?

i have a quick question as well based on what abby said with not finding the exorcist that's scary You mentioned that what you perceive of as scary or horror, that that's very individual, but does it also... and what you've experienced and seen when with your other guests there's a change along with the culture you know what becomes normal over time i imagine that a lot of people that whatever you're exposed to in your youth. you go to something that's

40 years ago that that seems kind of tame in comparison about what was even allowed in movies at the time. You know, it's so cool that you bring that up because one of the points in the articles that I'll include in the show notes for the listeners is a point about how for some people horror is a social experience. And just like you even said, Catherine, this idea of renting horror films with your friends and watching them together, and the fact that it's a social...

environment, it often plays a role in how scary or how fear-inducing the situation is. So yeah, that plays a role in it as well. And I think that also speaks to why thrill-seeking for roller coasters is in a different category. Because you're often, most of the time, you're with other people on a roller coaster. So that definitely addresses it too. And also thinking about like, when would you ever go into a haunted house by yourself? You always go in with other people. It's no fun by yourself.

Right, right. So, Catherine, do you think that you fit this category of low thrill-seeking people? Or does that not resonate? Not really. I think for me, my experience with horror movies, and I don't know how many I've watched over the years, I think. The ones I watched during my teenage years, I certainly came to a point where I said, No more, not based on a fear factor, but not being very satisfied by the storytelling. And in having watched these four movies, I've been able to kind of

understand more what I find lacking in the storytelling. Awesome. And Abby, what do you think? You fall in this category because you're not a thrill seeker, or are you maybe on the same page as Catherine, where you just don't enjoy what horror is bringing to you? Well, I'm definitely not a thrill seeker, so...

That checks out. I mean, I don't like roller coasters or horror or anything. So, you know, I'm a pretty boring person, guys. But absolutely, I think I resonate with Catherine a little bit because when I was watching these movies... Like, well, straight up, two out of three of them I did not find enjoyable. And it was mostly because I just thought their storylines were awful.

and if you're watching a movie with a terrible storyline like the ending just comes and you're like well what did i waste two hours of my life for what was what even happened but yeah so i'm not sure if i don't have enough exposure to horror movies to say that all horror movies are like that and i don't think that they are because there's one that was really really good

But yeah, if you're not getting anything out of it, that's the point. Oh man, I hope I picked the winner. I'm just saying right now. So, Susie, where do you and I fall on this scale? So, if everyone else are the opposite of thrill-seeking, That means that we are absolute thrill seekers. Do you feel like this resonates with you? You are not a thrill seeker. You are definitely not.

I'll bite my tongue. Would you like to answer first? Okay, yeah. I am impulsive. I am a thrill seeker. I don't think like two steps ahead. I think like, oh shit, what did I just do? But I also think the general public has a misconception of what horror is. I think it's like everybody thinks it's high gore content, unwatchable scenes, a lot of death, really dark and disturbing.

But we know differently. We know there are so many different subgenres in horror. And the genres I tend to go towards are the ones that I think are the most watchable and the most approachable. So I think it's more about fear, the general public. Fear of what they could see rather than what they're actually going to see. Yeah, the point I'll make on that before I shatter your reality regarding my thrill-seeking.

I do think, just echoing kind of the things that Abby and Catherine have just said, that I think there is this predisposed conception that most horror storytelling is just bad. that a lot of the horror movies that make it onto the mainstream are poorly pieced together and a lot of them are don't get us wrong you know we talk all the time on the show about storylines that don't make any sense but There's also, if you dig just a tiny bit deeper, there are a ton of horror films.

that have really really stellar storytelling and stellar writing because they rely on you know some of the foundations of literature going back to gothic literature frankenstein dracula that sort of thing But to speak to my thrill-seeking, believe it or not, Susie, I was quite a thrill-seeker as a child. I actually to this day love roller coasters. I love rides.

And as I got older, into my teens, I definitely had that feeling of being invincible. And even when you're a teenager, even when things are rough, you're... It's very much like Goonies Never Say Die type behavior. Like, I'm not, it doesn't matter what I do, nothing's gonna happen. And the bulk of my early horror consumption was in that period of my life when I thought nothing could go wrong.

And I often have this persona at that age of being very brave and fearless and I think my horror consumption was just like a part of that and somewhat a shield for me from some of the actual real life scary things that were actually going on during those horror ages.

i don't psychoanalyze myself too much i don't think my relationship with horror is solely founded in that but i do think that it plays a role in it but think my love for horror and its appeal to human nature and storytelling kind of supersedes that so I see some of it relating in that thrill-seeking space but it's not the core reason I don't think Alright, you and me are going bungee jumping right after the podcast.

I don't know if I can do it. I'm drinking a sleepy time tea right now. Those days are gone. We can do one roller coaster. Okay, alright, well, it has to be a tall one though, but let's get on to talking about our films for tonight.

so lonely and i both picked two films and we picked films based on them being approachable to people who don't like horror and my first film was absentia from 2011. A woman and her sister begin to link a mysterious tunnel to a series of disappearances including that of her own husband. And why did I choose this film?

So about a month ago, I posted on Instagram about this idea of nostalgia and movies we hang on to in our hearts being really good movies. And this was one of them. I rewatched it. I still think it's incredible. The acting is thought it was top-notch it was a very low budget indie lesser-known movie but we have this Story that I think is like the perfect blend of character development, a little bit of suspense, some sci-fi, and did you know that this was Mike Flanagan's first film?

I didn't know it until I started watching it, but when I saw his name come up on the intro credits, I was like, there's no way. Because we know Mike Flanagan nowadays for huge productions, you know, Hill House, bly manor oculus like that level of production so and you can see little pieces of that you can you can actually like storytelling exactly the storytelling and the characterization and the way that the characters interact with each other he's a big character guy

so i picked this one for katherine and abby because i didn't think it was that scary and there are a couple jump scares but they're not too much it's a little bit of a slow burn and I think I know enough about Catherine that I think she would appreciate the overall mood and the characters, but I think she's going to hate the ending. So Abby and Catherine, let us know what you thought about Accenture.

oh you're right i i really did like this movie um i went into all of these did not look up a trailer did not look up any information so i did not know any context of what it was about but after the fact i did go look up more information and they said that the budget was 70k that's amazing

for a movie to be made for $70,000. I think that's called a micro budget. I mean, I thought I was, blown away i hope that lots of filmmakers take this as an example of you don't need to wait till you have oodles of money i thought the the acting was phenomenal i thought the dialogue was great I think in any type of movie you can have very stiff, unrealistic dialogue no matter how well it's acted, but this was really good.

Out of all these movies, I think this dealt mostly with, um, supernatural occult character uh evil so i thought it was really interesting how it approached the occult and then how people explain it away And then the wider theme of all the ways that we're told not to trust ourselves by other people and all the ways that people tell themselves not to trust us.

Very interesting. I'll let Abby talk a little bit more about it before we discuss the ending. Should I warn you guys that I don't analyze movies like this?

Okay, so I thought if we're having these movies, like one being the best and four being the worst, Absentia was number three for me. I did not like it. I thought... one of the characters was very annoying i didn't like him i thought i will say though one of the characters i loved the the pregnant sister trisha i thought it was just really cool how she was just you know

kind of constantly having these horrible nightmares and the way that she just sort of was very calm about it and very like i'll go to a therapist and just try to figure it out and she doesn't ever really freak out at all during this movie until up towards the end obviously It's true, the pregnant sister, she was so calm and then she goes on this first real date with the detective.

And she sees her husband and she's convinced herself that he's not really there because she's seeing him everywhere. And then... the detective sees him and completely freaks out which I thought was just such a fantastic scene because she had come to that point you know where she's meditating and she's just accepting this is he's not he's always going to be here i'm always going to be seeing him but they're going to tell me that i'm crazy if i am too open about it

Other than that, I thought that there was just many, many bad decisions being made. and i really didn't like that i didn't like you know random characters coming in and just saying ominous things and then walking away i thought that was dumb I will say that I didn't know that it was made on a 70K budget, and that makes it slightly more impressive to me right now. Not that I liked it anymore, but I'm more impressed with it.

found the story very annoying and we can talk about the ending because I hated the ending but so tell us how it ends it ends on such a cliffhanger guys because it's not like we find out what the creature is and it's not like the creature disappears or we capture it it's the end nope it's still there in a tunnel and we're all just gonna ignore it like this The body of a man was found.

crippled outside and we just ignore it we just okay now we have this other husband guy that was missing for like seven plus years and all of a sudden he comes back and we're all like okay cool like you seem really beat up But then he disappears again, and we're just going to ignore that. And then his, you know, wife, ex-wife, wherever she is, she disappears. Then her sister disappears. What are we doing? Horror is not always based in reality. I will say that.

but what did you think about okay so all this stuff is happening and it's not making sense to you but they kind of in the movie explained it away just like i feel like in real life you might explain it away and not see everything happening behind the scenes like the guy maybe maybe drugs maybe the other guy was doing maybe the husband was doing some crazy stuff came back and then decided to go off again. So you don't necessarily have to understand and believe something.

to appreciate it for me. I love the ominous nature of films like this, especially the ending. Catherine, how did you feel about that? For me, the ending. when that sister which is i will never be that brave to go in and know that something bad is going to happen and just be saying trade i literally screamed at the screen be more specific Correct me if I'm wrong. The creature. And this trade gives her sister's fetus.

So what's frustrating to me is, are we meant to believe that nobody ever finds this fetus? Because these detectives... I was very frustrated with the detective part because it seems so unethical that... someone who is in a romantic relationship with this sister is still so involved in this case um when her husband comes back they interrogate him in a way that is really not appropriate.

And then after both the sisters disappear, these two detectives turn into complete Pollyannas about how they're probably out in the woods, living off the land. And I'm like, there's no fetus? Nobody found the fetus. Nobody found the fetus. And that frustrates me about the ending because there is something there that was According to the story that we saw that wasn't found, and I'm kind of wondering why would they give the viewer that?

the story won't build on that it's kind of like that saying of if you got a gun in the first scene by the third scene it has to go off maybe they did find that and we just don't know that and they didn't explain it to us The detective's coming back.

and he's putting up the missing posters because he sees that and he maybe he did find that why else would he be putting up the missing posters instead of just assuming she took off but you're right can't explain everything i'm trying to get a lot of credit To me, it was heavily implied that he's a father of a child.

see i thought they were very ominous about that and it could have gone either way yeah i think it could have gone either way too i at least from my perspective there was a time where they made you think it was him because when he when you're in the car and he's like i'm gonna be here for this baby

it's like okay what does that mean though also the point about the car where he's talking about i'm gonna be the father i'm just thinking about how they had to film that the camera is so close to them someone was literally like up on them breathing on them filming that scene but anyway continue catherine No, I just, it was not, the fetus is never mentioned. We just see it, it's never mentioned by anyone. So I just, it's not 1980, it's 2010. There's DNA.

if he's a father they could have tested the dna you know i mean like i just wanted too much s law and order i know it's really coming out i'm an svu fan too though and i'll just say before we move from absentia are the listeners sending a pattern here because I don't know, Susie, I feel like we're being gaslit right now. Like, these two are just really rooted in reality and maybe we're the problem.

maybe we're the problem i don't know i should la la land i know we're just like but symbolism and allegory the last thing i'll say on abstentia is that I mean, I didn't like this film. I felt the pacing was really, really slow. But I mean, I can see why you recommended it, Susie, because it was very, it felt like you were reading a mystery. And I think that really appeals as like an entry point for horror.

And the only pass I will give Mike Flanagan on this is that I really wanted to see the giant bug, but he didn't have enough money for it. So Mike Flanagan, please remake this film, and I demand a giant bug. I think, would that help the fetus situation, Catherine? i don't think you need a remake i think you need a sequel yeah good call with or without the bug a sequel could bring us to the underworld and see what the who else the bug has caught

true true true true well we'll go on to my first recommendation of the evening which is the boy from 2016. this follows an american nanny that is shocked to find her new English family's son is actually a life-sized doll. After she violates the strict rules disturbing events make her believe that the doll is really alive

Why did I recommend this? So I think this is a perfect encapsulation of digestible horror. It leans pretty heavy into mystery and thriller, and the main horror of the whole film are jump scares. Jump scares are what I think are like the low-hanging fruit of the horror genre. They're easiest to get used to because it's the same as if somebody was just to, you know, give you a little boo, little tap on the shoulder type situation.

And I rewatched this for the recording. And I, as you had nostalgia for absentia, I had some nostalgia for the boy. And I feel like this really holds up. So I'll hold all my thoughts. But I recommended this because... Believe it or not, listeners, Abby is a historical fiction fan. She also likes Pride and Prejudice.

so i thought well maybe i'll give her an english i'll set that on the english countryside and maybe she'll like it so abby you could start us off what did you think of the boy so first of all i actually did really like the scenery and the house so you're spot on about that um the boy i thought like on my list it was number two for second best i thought it was out of all four of these films the scariest i guess but it wasn't even really that scary it was just very creepy i really hate jump scares

So all of these really got me. But again, I'm just... the reality if you go to a house and these people want you to babysit a very very creepy doll Just walk away. Like it's very simple. But she was getting paid a lot of money. That doesn't change the situation. I don't care. Like if you want me to babysit this creepy ass doll. I don't care. I'm not doing that. I mean have you never seen a horror movie before? I would do it and I've seen a horror movie. I need to buy a house. Anyway, continue.

But I thought the storyline of the boy was really good. I really liked it. the whole storyline with her abusive i liked the storyline of the backstory of the child um i thought that the parents were kind of creepy but also kind of cool the scenes that they were in because they were just very they were ominous and i didn't really enjoy how ominous they were but towards the end i was like all right

these people have been through it but yeah the boy it was pretty good so katherine where do you skew on this because this is very different very very different than what susie recommended so i'm very curious to see if you enjoyed this at all so to be fair this movie i had heard about i remember seeing you know those not the full trailer but these abbreviated clips when it was in the theaters so i i had heard of it and i thought

oh that sounds like such a trope you know the evil doll i liked it more than i thought i would i thought everyone really acted well based on what abby's saying i thought that that was the most interesting part of the movie the class issue because only

Really wealthy people could orchestrate this whole thing. There's no other way. I don't think And then only people who would really need the money. So this this nanny and this grocer would be willing to kind of go along with it because they're desperate. And I did start out thinking, yes, these parents who are these evil people, I ended up feeling compassion for them in a way with what they went through. The thing that bothered me most, I think that.

From if you had asked me what's a horror movie like this was the most cliche horror of what i had in mind the thing that bothered me most is the male gazey aspect of it starting with the taxi drive to the mansion, where the taxi driver is looking down her shirt in the rearview mirror. The whole scene where she's in the attic with a towel on, I wrote down, how does one keep a towel on for 12 hours straight like that? I can't barely keep a towel on like that for five minutes.

but i i think that they they did a lot and it was it was not what i was expecting kudos for that um i do feel that there were a lot of parallels with one of the other movies that we watched Another film that is like a little bit higher up on the... approachability list that could kind of mirror what you were saying about the class and being able to orchestrate this and pull this off is the house of the devil from 2009 so if you did like this one

That's not approachable. I said it's not approachable. You said higher up on the approachable list. Higher up on the non-approachability list. I falsely assume that you meant that because it was higher, it was better. So continue. No, but I think that that's another theme that

Never mind. Go. What do you want to say? I ruined the class conversation. Yes, there's class conversations in House of the Devil, but we notoriously don't like that film on the show. The one thing I wanted to talk about, well, Susie, did you want to say anything about the boy? I have a feeling you didn't like this.

You said it was digestible. It was so digestible it gave me heartburn, maybe a little bit of GERD and a little regurgitation. I just want to add that lonely this is the same director that wrote stay alive from 2006 i think that came up on your worst list from the video game horror episode Oh, well, you know, I think he really rebounded 10 years later with the boy, humbly.

so let's talk about that reveal i think that that's the coolest part of this movie and yeah like it's a little i don't know i watched this with my mother-in-law right before we recorded and she didn't get it she didn't know that the twist was coming Abby or Catherine, did either of you catch the twist that was coming? Did you know that Brahms was in fact a man? I did not. Me neither. I thought that the grocer was going to be the boy.

Oh, so that's an interesting theory. Captain, did you think it was a ghost the whole time or nothing was happening? I tried to stay very open. The fact that we were going to discuss these movies was a very good exercise for me because it really forced me to just kind of... focus on what was happening and not think too far in advance and try to guess so i was just really trying to stay in the moment with all of them and no i did not see that coming so there too i think that um

I do want to ask you based on that with the twist, do you find that once a twist has been done, then in a certain genre like horror that it gets overdone and then they have to make up something completely new? Does that happen? Does it get harder and harder to find a twist?

absolutely yeah and then the twist has become ridiculous yeah absolutely i think like that's the m night effect where he he's become known for making twists and then you know we all just hold our breath when he comes out with another movie because like what garbage is he gonna try to sell us this time like we're eons away from the twists that were for good like signs and you know the village and that sort of thing but

I just want to talk about the twist for a second, and then we'll move on, Susie, because I know you're not having fun with the boy, even though maybe I will gift you a Brahms and you will change your mind. I love the reveal on this. The shot where...

so we have the abusive boyfriend he returns who is a total piece of shit by the way he's like literally a murderer but life goes on she's literally like almost were to assume she was very pregnant at the time that you know he assaulted her and she lost the baby which is crazy but He takes Brahms, who at this point, I think most viewers will have gotten some affinity for because she's talking to the doll the whole movie.

We don't really know quite like, is the doll possessed? Is the doll alive? Is it a ghost? And he smashes bronze into a million pieces.

and literally everyone is screaming so even the grocer who knows like that there's nothing in that freaking doll he's freaking out too because it's like this ominous thing that has happened and then our pal Brahms literally comes out of the wall And I just think it's so beautifully shot, the close-up on the way the porcelain is shattered, and it almost looks as if Brahms' ashes were in the doll.

but obviously we know that he's not in the doll because he's in the wall but it's very interesting and the last thing i will add is that there are thirst traps of brahms on the internet so i have to know Would anybody stay with Brahms? Because that's the big argument here. Some people are like, well, he's hot. So I would stay and take care of him. Would anybody stay? I considered it briefly.

i would have been out the door as soon as they brought out the doll honestly i mean there is no first trap i'm not even there No. No, just me? Alright, save me. No. Save with Brahms either? No, no. I think it's like you and the whole Nosferatu. I don't understand your taste.

All right. All right. Well... if anybody else wants to talk about brahms you could call in um i feel like this is a great film don't watch the sequel um but i think i'm kind of winning right now susie i don't know let's see there's a sequel There's a sequel, please don't watch it. It's called Brahms the Boy 2, and it has none of the... Same characters. None of the same characters. It's like such a strange... And there's actually, I think, a third film as well.

I think the boy did so well, so they just kept going with it. But this next film is a standalone. It is called Maribone from 2017. A young man and his three younger siblings who have kept the secret of the death of their beloved mother in order to remain together are plagued by a sinister presence in the sprawling manner in which they live. I picked this phone because it is also another lesser known horror movie. I don't think it has a lot of jump scares. It has a very engaging plot.

but it also throws in a few twists and turns that i think horror is kind of known for but these seemed pretty relevant to the overall plot i thought it was well acted with interesting and super well-rounded and developed characters

And although it's a lesser known indie film, it does have a higher production quality. It's a little bit more polished than Absentia. And I think it's a little bit more accessible too. And this is more of like a psychological horror movie with building tension than jump scares. which I think a general audience might appreciate a little bit more. Before I get your opinion I just want to tell you a little bit of background.

so sergio sanchez is the writer and director of this film and he also wrote the screenplay for the orphanage in 2007 that was produced by del toro oh you can tell you can see it because this i was saying this means fantasy and i was getting like del toro like that misty like storybook type vibe it's definitely you can tell but he's also super versatile because he then did in 2012 the impossible that movie about the tsunami with naomi walk

So we know he has some really great writing skills and I think that like carried over into the like particularly the plot. So Catherine what did you think about Maribone? In the days after watching it, I found myself thinking how it could have been better. I think with this movie more than The Boy, for example.

The time and the place is much more important to the storyline. That was very vague to me. We were pretty far into the story when I realized that it was supposed to be 1969. When there's the discussion of... The kids need to stay hidden until the brother's 21. How old's the brother? We don't know. I mean, there's not a lot of context to go on of what this journey is that they're undertaking.

I found that the beginning of the movie, it did have this kind of dreamlike fantasy aspect to it um at one point i wrote young adult horror question mark because it had that kind of ya feel to it At times I found that the dialogue was pretty stiff and stilted in the beginning especially. I thought it was a very... very slow burn it was you know it was to the point where it was to me getting a little tedious and I kind of found myself

you know my attention kind of uh wandering but it redeemed itself in the end i do think that this is something that could have been a non-horror movie it could have focused more on the psychological yeah i just i just found myself in the in the days after um but i do want to make the point of There's art in any form where You see it, you hear it, you experience it, and you just never think about it again.

This stayed with me, and I still think about it, but I often do think of, oh, I would have just liked a little bit more context here, something more here. It's supposed to be set in Maine. that's what i looked up afterwards i have no idea of the time span but maine is not that temperate a climate so i just it just didn't So many things felt off to me, and I don't know if it's because there is this very, very, very long lead up, let's say, at least three quarters of the movie, I think.

And then it kind of all comes together. And I don't know if I missed something in viewing it because I couldn't really stay that focused on this one, but I thought it could have been a lot better than it was, but it has so much potential.

so i'll just speak to us uh that's a great point catherine the one thing i'll like speak to not to and i hope susie and i aren't coming across as like absolute like i feel like we're on trial like we're trying to defend Their allegory! I've got no attachment. No, so the only thing I'll add is, you know, this idea that Certain themes keep coming up. That's sort of where we start to siphon out subgenres.

horror and that's where we start to group themes based on things that become prevalent in the story so for example there is a subgenre of haunted house films that have very similar themes about the way the house is portrayed the house is a character ghosts And then you have something like

you know zombie films which have the same set of the exact same stereotypes and the exact same set of character tropes that you can expect to see in every film across that and you know maybe hearing it from an outside perspective like maybe that is pretty formulaic and Maybe that's why people are turned off by it, but that would be my answer to the question on theme. But Abby, what did you think of Maramone? I feel like I should apologize to Sue. trashing all over her movies.

because Maribone, I watched Maribone first, and it was my least favorite out of all of them. I will say that I am very grateful for it because it was not... very scary which was good a very nice starter um i liked the cast that really got me into it at first because um the two characters hold on Anya, Taylor-Joy, and Mia Goth, or Goth? I think it's Goth. Goth, Mia Goth, yep. Mia Goth. Okay, so they were together in the 2020 version of Emma, and I love that movie, so I was into this.

And also the beginning is very magical. Like I love the scenery and the music. I also thought it was by far like the most wholesome. I thought the boy was kind of wholesome, just because the girl ended up being very kind to this doll. wasn't really the point but this movie this movie was very wholesome and i really liked the ending i thought it was very sweet But overall, I'm kind of in the same boat with Catherine. I mean, this movie is 111 minutes, and it does not need to be 111 minutes.

But, so I didn't really have any issues too much with this movie other than the fact that they... any stupid decisions throughout it but i think the worst part the part that turned me off to this movie the most was the ending because i just thought it was horribly done i mean they stabbed the father in the neck okay And he's... He beats Jack in a race. Jack climbs up this hill and the father's already there. How did you get there? And also...

Not only is he stabbed in the neck and beat Jack in a race, he also beats Jack back to the house, scales a building, the whole house, it's not a short house, to get into the chimney. Where there are three children, only one of whom is very small. The other two, I feel like, I feel like you could take him, honestly. He's just been stabbed in the neck and has run a very far distance and has scaled a house. I feel like you could take him.

but they didn't um but then the ending the worst part the worst part is the fact that they bricked that jack bricked up the door to the attic Because there's this whole theme of, oh, he just couldn't get out.

first of all did you see when he landed after landing at the bottom of the chimney the chimney is not that wide he can definitely put his hands on either side and crawl back up that chimney if he wanted to but let's just assume that he can't for a second so the next thing is that they wanted to block up the door so he doesn't get out the door so you're telling me that jack had to go get all these bricks and the mortar and build the wall in front of the attic door

And let it set and dry and harden. I'm just telling you, he's coming through the door before that happens. but yeah i didn't like that now that you've outlined that like very detailed because trust me i was i'll be honest i was kind of bored of this movie by the time we got to that section so susie Did he, were we to assume that they made the room before he got there because the mother was like, oh, make sure you have a safe place. Is that the, is that the thing? That's what I was.

That's what I thought. So, Abby, I think the room was already made. But to the point that you're making, Abby, this film is told in slightly a nonlinear narrative. Right, Susie? Especially at the end. Because we have all these flashbacks.

Jack. exactly yeah is he a reliable narrator so let's talk let's talk about that twist for a second because there is another twist in this that i and i hate this kind of twist that i've oh but tell us what it is and why you hate it why i hate it okay well it is actually catherine yes What is the twist, Catherine? Tell us. The twist is that the siblings are dead.

and he's imagined them the whole time and shocker mental illness is the reveal boo throwing tomatoes that is the bogus For my own defense here, the film I was going to pick was The Others with very similar themes, but I thought that maybe it had already been seen. But I think that's what I meant when I think, for example, the film in its own way could have still worked with the father having been killed.

mm-hmm by Jack and then and then just the psychological aspect of it because i feel like they were they they it was you know that very slow build and then just kind of too much at the end I will say too, You know, I didn't like the ending and I wasn't a fan of the pacing, but I do feel if you are more of a fan of psychological horror, you might enjoy this.

it does have a really nice aesthetic the acting after we get through the first 20 minutes of the script where it's a little shaky the acting isn't bad and you know you get some of the you know the heavy hitters and horror before they became bigger names so i don't think this is a total loss of a film i think it's definitely there's a niche for it Alright, so... You're telling me the black phone one? Alright, Lonely, go for it.

Well, of course. Of course. My second pick. was the black phone from 2021 after being abducted and locked in a basement a boy starts receiving phone receiving phones receiving calls on a disconnected phone from a killer's previous victims so i pick this film if it's the only blockbuster on the list i don't always when i go to recommend horror to people i don't always recommend stuff that's been in theaters but this is an incredibly strong film I feel it leans probably closest to a true thriller.

than any of the films on the list it has crime elements with a couple like dabbles of horror this was my top film of 2022 and it has some great acting i think it's wonderfully paced and the scares here are would say maybe some of the most intense of this set but when you couple it with the pacing of the story I do feel that it's quite fun and there is this is probably the most gore as well and the only reason why there's

more gore here is that it's definitely some implied gore and the gore that's on the screen is on the screen longer than some of the other films. So Abby, clearly this one is your top of the list. I won. Tell us why you like this film and what you think of it as a horror film. I could go on about The Black Phone. If all horror movies were like The Black Phone, I would actually watch horror.

I will not be watching this ever again. But it was so... so good i will say though that i texted lonely after i texted lonely after watching all of these i had thoughts um but very specifically after watching this one i told her that this was not a horror movie and that this was a thriller and I think that's why I liked it so much more. I get the ghost aspect. I get that that can make it a horror, but I just... I would categorize that as a thriller.

But either way, it was so good. I loved the little mystery aspect of it. I loved the entire storyline. I loved, loved, loved the phone calls with the kids, especially Robin at the end. I thought it was so cute. so very good i loved the sibling relationship yes it was adorable okay it's sad and i get it and it's kind of creepy but it's so Like, the support, Lonely, and the camaraderie, and yes, it was cute. It was very cute.

Well, look how animated Abby is over there talking about the black phone. I take it back. I don't think I want anymore. She just called the greatest horror film of 2022 very cute. I don't know. I just... so what did you so there is some some gore in this abby what did you think of that we see some implied strangling and stabbing and some blood i hid under the blankets for those parts i don't do gore

Okay. Those are the parts that kind of stayed with me a little bit longer. Catherine, what did you think of this one? I loved it as well. It was the first one I watched. I thought it was Actually, when it comes down to a very simple story, it could be a play, but I thought it was the best told story of the bunch. I thought it was very interesting how I think most of the physical violence to me was...

pre-being kidnapped the physical violence in and and finney's home the physical violence that he witnessed and kind of dealt with at school and then there's of course the physical violence and being kidnapped by the grabber but the imprisonment, most of the violence there was psychological.

And I thought that was very interesting because you would assume that the violence would get worse and I didn't really think that it did. I thought that what we saw before him being locked in the room was much more physically violent i thought it was interesting how that theme of being locked in a room is in so many different types of movies you know you have room Kiss the girls, the lovely bones.

at least one episode of law and order svu in every single season i mean somebody being locked in a room for whatever reason To me it felt very much like a puzzle or an escape room because with every phone call he's getting an element that aids in his escape. And it was, you know, you really were there with him. I'll give the example of where he gets the phone call and he says, you know, dig through the wall and you'll get into this freezer.

and the freezer's locked, and what does he do? But at the end, with the dog, he knows to go get a steak. So it all, it's very, I know that there's lots of people out there that don't enjoy a story where everything's neatly tied up in a bow at the end. This out of all the movies too, I would say probably has

maybe the happiest ending. I love the scene where he holds the phone to the grabber's ear and you hear the boys and it's all these scenes we've seen previously, either things that Finney witnessed or things that were said to him directly, but they all come together. and what they say to the grabber. They have been said before in the movie. I thought it was good.

and i'll say the last thing i'll say and then susie i'll toss it over to you this is also what i think the strongest film on the list and what we would consider like implied horror so this idea of what happens off screen that makes this a truly scary thing to witness.

there's some of that in marrow bone there's some of it in you know the boy i would say and even in absentia in different parts of it absentia we have well what goes on in the tunnel the boy we have this you know threat like looming threat of domestic violence. Maribone, we don't know what happened to the father or what's happening and how he died. And in the black phone, it's really to the forefront because there's this looming foreshadowing that these boys were sexually assaulted.

had essentially died painful deaths and we gather that by the way the grabber behaves and the pieces that Finney gathers of the story throughout the phone calls and sort of that dread that starts to fill the room that he's in at the end of the film. It's one of those things that makes the climax.

so like your heart starts to race when you watch it because you know what's at stake and that is good horror i think that's what takes this film from a thriller to a horror film but Susie, do you not like the black phone at all?

I'm one of those people that doesn't like the nice, neat little bow, but we also have to understand this film did have an enormous budget. which definitely helped it. And it was written by Joe Hill, which is Stephen King's son, which also is pretty apparent that comes through. And it's directed by Scott Derrickson. Catherine, you mentioned you had just seen The Gorge on Apple TV. Same director.

a gorgeous not good though no no but it has that like storytelling storytelling aspect but for me i i mean i like this film but it was just kind of like a reiteration of the 2020 film the boy behind the door And so I kind of have a problem with films that remind me so much of a predecessor where it almost feels like they're borrowing just a little bit too much. I do love Ethan Hawke, though, and I thought he was incredible in this.

He was also in Scott Derrickson's other movie, Sinister, and I think he's an amazing horror actor. And Catherine, you were telling me something about his eyebrows, remember? Yeah, so he has this mask on and then there's a scene where he, you know, that... the mask is not always the same mask but there's a scene where he's sitting in the room watching finney i think finney wakes up if i remember correctly and it's just the bottom part of the mask and ethan hawk

I've seen Ethan Hawke in movies for as long as I can remember. He has such a recognizable brow that I just best stop laughing because there's that element of you don't know who it is and all at once he's so recognizable um the one thing that i wondered about is when finney rips his mask off he screams is that something What are we supposed to understand there?

maybe the symbolism like what is that mask hiding yeah so so that that the kid would actually see him i mean his brother obviously knows who he is his his neighbors know who he is so i i didn't really under he seemed like he was traumatized by having his mask taken off maybe like revealing his true self like this is who i am i don't know

That was a question I had for both of you. Yeah, I would say, so it's an interesting question because the black phone is a short story, so we actually get more... this story has been built from a very like thin scaffolding so there's probably no exact answer right until either joe hill or the director comes forward and they're like yeah that's what i meant when the mask came off but the way i gathered it was you know through the story

The Grabber talks about why he's kidnapping these boys and why he wants to hurt them.

and it sort of hinted that he like he knows that he's a bad person and what he's doing is bad and at times it's as if he's giving in to temptation and Just like you said Susie maybe the room like the removal of the mask like it's the he's not he can't hide behind like the persona of the devil because that's what he looks like a demon the mask is like a like a twisted like demon devil clown type situation so maybe the removing of the mask is one of those things

he's unprotected like he can't hide behind anything and he is there there's points especially as you kind of get go through levels of the the boys because the boys get older and kind of more aggressive as they as he kidnaps them He becomes afraid of them at some point. There are times when he is afraid that he might not win the fight, so I wonder if that also is a point of fear. Abby, I know you liked this one. Is there anything else you wanted to add?

Did you have anything to add on this symbolism? No. Well, you know, other than the fact that I 100% thought that the same thing as you with the mask, I just assumed that he knew that he was doing bad things and, like, didn't really want to. face it. So I just kind of thought it was more like him putting on this mask was like him turning into a different person that does the bad things and him taking off the mask is just like a normal person going about your life.

But yeah, that's just it. I think that's all I have. Although I want to say that. one thing that i was slightly confused about was that i know that you know the whole thing is finn you know kind of learning to stand up for himself and you know takes this fight on stuff like that The one thing that I'm still kind of questioning though is at the end, he still goes back to his father.

who we see is not the nicest guy so i would be more curious about like how that turns out at the end or if there was something i was supposed to get out of that a little bit more than i actually did

i feel like we're supposed to and i could be wrong um i feel like there's kind of like a come to jesus with the father like three quarters of the way in with gwen where

He kind of accepts her gift after abusing her for the entire film. So I think he has like sort of this come to Jesus where he realizes... that he needs to accept his children and like sort of the he has one of those like oh life is fleeting moments like i should not be a piece of father so i think that's where he you know comes around but i'm not justifying it i mean

I think you're absolutely right in that it doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean, the kid's also gone through this traumatic, like if you were held captive by a serial killer, you would probably go back to.

your shitty house too i think i would oh yeah i mean there's no judgment on finn over here to me the setting of it being set in the 70s i wrote there's no focus on trauma he just goes back to school i think if it was set today you know he'd be out of school for a year you know working with therapists having all kinds of treatments i think that's that's that's part of the setting too for me that really and and and i thought that was interesting too and seeing you know absentia and the boy

their very current day and then Maribone and the Black Phone. I'm always curious with a storyline setting them in the past usually adds to it and somehow, you know, the lack of technology or the way. people do things, the way people raise their kids, the way people are treated after a trauma, those often add to the storyline, I think, as well.

all right susie should we should we go into best and worst yeah let's do it so what we the way we do things here is we go worst to best so I think, so Abby, you had a number system, so we'll start with you. Confirm your worst out of the four. Maribone. You're welcome. Sorry, Susie. And Catherine, what was your worst of these four? the boy bummer bummer that's okay it's okay we're one for one all right so abby your best was the black phone catherine what about you A black phone as well.

Ooh, Susie. You win nothing. You win nothing. I get bragging rights and just that. Only, only that. Would you say, so out of the two you recommended, Susie, which one do you prefer? The Lipsentia, for sure. And I would say, obviously, I mean, the black phone is my favorite, but I'm still championing the boy. Susie, you know what? I almost recommended, but I held myself back. The lady, woman in black, lady in black. I'm glad you dodged a bullet, both of you.

So at this point in the show, we would usually go into deep cuts and surface wounds, but it doesn't really make sense. So instead, we're coming at you with some lips.

Lonely and I came up with five horror films that we believe are approachable for anyone. And I wonder if we'll have any crossover. Probably not because I chose to focus on indie films that are deep cut. And so my first one is November from 2017, part grim fairy tale, part Eastern European folklore. In a poor Estonian village, a group of peasants use folk.

Use magic and folk remedies to survive the winter, and a young woman tries to get a young man to love her. Catherine, I think you'd love this, and Lonely, I think you'd love this. Then I have Wind from 2018. A Plains woman faces the harshness of isolation of the untamed land and the western frontier of the late 1800s. You'll all hate it, but I love it, so I don't care.

And then we have A Ghost Waits from 2020. A man's job requires him to clean a house, which turns out to be haunted. In the course of trying to exorcise the ghost, he falls in love with her. And stay tuned, because in a couple episodes, we'll be featuring this film. And lastly, I have Out of Darkness from 2022.

In the old stone age, a gang of early humans band together in search of new land. But when they suspect a malevolent, mystical being is hunting them down, the clan are forced to confront a danger they never envisioned. That's Stone Age Horror right there. And finally, we have those who walk away from 2022 after Max and Avery meet on social media for a first date. They end up at a haunted house.

Only to realize the trauma they share may either save them or erupt into an unforgettable nightmare. I really enjoy this film so many people don't they think it's boring but If you skew towards my likes, watch everything on my list. Lonely, what do you have?

i can confirm i have not seen any of the films susie just mentioned so you know it's what it's like it is every episode if you have susie's taste watch her stuff if you have my taste watch mine i picked a mix i did some classic some camp from my youth And a more current, I guess it's not that current anymore, but... so my first is carnival of souls 1962 after a traumatic event a woman becomes drawn to the mysterious abandoned carnival this is a black and white horror um very very light on the

i would say the traditional horror elements there's no gore nothing like that it's all psychological a ton of fun and then i what is the list for for newbies and horror without night of the living dead so night of the living dead 1968. A ragtag group of Pennsylvanians barricade themselves at an old farmhouse to remain safe from a horde of flesh-eating ghouls. Very important to note that they're not zombies in the first film.

I wanted at least one zombie film on my list because I think zombies are a great intro to horror, especially because The Walking Dead has become so mass-consumed in the last 10 or 12 years. the night of the living dead is also a good intro to gore because it's black and white i guess you could watch it in color but the gore is i feel you get a taste of it just get a little bit of a little bit of a you know exposure to it

Now we're going for the camp. I've got Mama from 2013. Two little girls disappear into the woods the day that their parents were killed. they are found five years later and they start a new life but they find that someone or something still wants to tuck them in at night

This is still one of my favorite del Toro films. I saw this when I was a very young teenager and didn't sleep for days. This has some of the best jump scares I've ever seen in horror. And it's pretty campy by today's standards, but I think it's fun. Oculus from our friend Mike Flanagan, who did absentia. Oculus 2013. A recently released inmate from a mental asylum learns from his sister that the murders he was convicted of

were actually committed by a supernatural entity. That's freaking scary! That is too scary! I don't think that's that scary. Oh, wait, I'm remembering the ending. I'm remembering the ending. That's a pretty hefty chunk of gore right there.

Okay, maybe maybe strike it. I don't know. That's like level two. Oculus is a really good story though. So if you like absentia give oculus a try and last but not least is get out okay i'll admit i struggle with this because i couldn't remember like what's considered too scary so if get out is too scary i'm sorry

Get out 2017. A young African-American man visits his white girlfriend's house or his parents' house for the weekend where he has simmering uneasiness about their perception of him and eventually reaches a boiling point. This, I feel like, was a good encapsulation of contemporary horror and the way that horror has shifted, I would say, from 2016 to present. It's a lot more political, it's a lot more current, and it also has a big, like, dose of dark humor.

and i feel like jordan biel does that wonderfully and got out as a good entry point to more contemporary horror so i don't know susie do you think mine were too scary no just oculus okay i don't watch oculus there's yeah no

Alright, well, it has come to that time of the evening. It is time for our closing thoughts. So this question is for Catherine and Abby. And I'd love to hear if your opinions on horror have changed at all after watching these three films and talking with us tonight. No hard feelings. Why or why not? And Catherine, you can get us started. Sure. Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised by these movies.

I did understand more about Why horror or the traditional horror films that I've seen in the past were not as appealing to me, I think, as is known in storytelling you have. the who the what the when the where the how the why where when for example in the black phone that was very clear and marabona was not clear

In abstention, the boy was not as important who these things are happening to across the board, what exactly was happening. I think in horror, Horror seems to demand a certain openness from the audience, from the viewer to accept what is happening because what could be happening could be something very realistic or it could be something very...

unrealistic but part of this supernatural or occult storyline and then the how and the why I think are often pretty vague or less to like the very last part of the film. And that's based on these and the few handfuls of movies, horror films I've seen in the past.

but i think for me personally the how and the why to a story is usually the most interesting and that's not something that i really understood about myself so this exercise kind of has helped that but i do think that that is When I look at the movies that I tend to really love or would want to watch again, I think that they deal very much on with the themes of how things are happening, why they're happening, what systems are in place, what drives events, what drives people's actions.

and maybe that's why I like Law & SVU and not so much a horror movie because I feel like the horror would deal with the event that happened, not in the aftermath of what exactly went on, how are we dealing with it. So it's been very interesting for me to understand that about myself as well. Thank you.

Abby, what about you? I think I'm kind of walking away with the same opinion of horror as I had before, which is scares me I don't like jump scares and I don't find the experience enjoyable I find it more stressful I will say that I didn't realize that there was really good horror movies out there, like Blackphone. So if we have more of those, I'll watch those.

I didn't realize until this conversation that I cared so much about things being more realistic in movies, I guess, just because character is making some really bad decisions in these movies. which I guess is sort of the point. It bothers me. Which is odd because I actually really like fiction, guys. I like fantasy, so you'd think I'd be more okay with it, but I'm not.

Um, but yeah, apparently there's some very good, very good horror movies out there. I will not be watching them likely, but you know, it's good to have hope. In Abby's defense, she did spend 20 minutes one time explaining the entire plot of a historical fiction novel and why it was bad. because of the main character's decision. So I probably should have known what I was getting into before having her on the show. But thank you anyway for joining us. Susie, you want to cue us out?

I will, but before I do that, I forgot to mention that my thirst trap is Ethan Hawke. fun fact with or without the mask though Depends what time of night. See, why was I judged for Brahms and the mask but you're out here with Ethan Hawke's eyebrows? That's not fair. Not fair. All right. Well, when I'm not thirst trapping on Ethan Hawke, you can find me on filmstagram at projectile underscore underscore vermin.

And you can find my horror reviews and rants for lonely souls over on Instagram at lonely horror club. I try to post reviews whenever I can. and cause problems on filmstagram whenever possible. You can also find my writing on my website, lonelyhorrorclub.com. Thank you, dear internet, for tuning in to episode 55 of Nobodies. As always, sources, additional reading, and all of that fun stuff.

will be in our show notes call us if you want to leave us a message you can give us a call at 617-431-4322 And keep up with our antics on Instagram at Nobody's Horror Podcast. We are continuing the Corners Report. Keep your eyes open. But more importantly, we are on YouTube. Can you believe it? We're on YouTube. Exclusive video content will be coming to YouTube in the next few months. So keep your eyes peeled. A like and a subscribe.

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