¶ Going Live Setup
So we are recording. Are we live streaming? I believe we are.
We're definitely live streaming.
Let me have a look. Yes. Yeah.
See I've got you looking now. See? Yeah. I've taught you to look, see. Fabulous. He's believing. So there we are.
I see. I'm in, I'm in my very expensive filing cabinet, my office, which I visit very, very rarely. And I've got this Mac screen, which is so big. I have to wear my glasses all the time now to see, because I'm so close. And, uh, if you see me looking around like this, it's going to be via accessing cues. I'm just trying to find out where everything is on the screen.
Oh dear.
So we're live. Are we Tina?
We're definitely live. I have looked, we're definitely live. Uh, there's no Tanya as yet. She tells me, hold on. She says I'm in the chippy. There you go. So Tanya, I dunno whether you're back from the Chippy yet.
Well,
I guess you will be soon. So shall we begin?
¶ Sunshine Small Talk
Yeah. Well good evening everyone, and I hope you're well.
Enjoying the sunshine if you're in the uk. It's been beautiful.
Make the most of it guys. Yeah,
definitely, definitely Enjoy it. This could be summer, these few days
we do talk about and we do moan about the weather, don't we? Yeah,
we wouldn't be British if we didn't complain about the weather. It's still cold. What?
Bloody on. So lemme just put my phone on silent. So how are you Tina?
I am good. I'm good.
¶ Tina's Turkey Tale
I've, I've had an interesting few days. Um, and one of the questions we've got later on, I'll discuss about my interesting few days because I think it's quite funny and appropriate. Uh, yeah. I've had an interesting few days and I'm home alone with my two teenage grandsons. 'cause my daughter's gone off to have surgery in Turkey on her teeth, and my husband's taken his little girl. What that means basically is she's at the dentist and he's sitting by the pool drinking beer.
That sounds a good plan. I've got two daughters. Do you think that'll ever happen to me? Yeah,
you can only but home state.
He's not picking up the bill or, or the tab for the teeth, does he? No. Oh, okay. That's even better. Yeah.
Not only is she paying for her teeth, she's paid for him to go with her.
Oh, okay. I'm gonna make a note of this. Yeah. I got two holidays already planned. Two sometime in the future.
Yeah, yeah. Well she was meant to be going with her, with her boyfriend, but, um, unfortunately his passport had expired.
Yeah, you gotta be careful with those passports. Now they, if you're like six months or five months left on passport.
Yeah. You've got about six months. Yeah.
Some places won't let you in. Yeah.
Yeah. He only had four months left on his passport, so he couldn't travel. So she was really miffed and, 'cause she's having major surgery, she had to have someone with her. So daddy went on a holiday.
Sounds a good plan. Oh,
I've given him a list of presents I'm expecting there.
Yeah, yeah. Well you are. You are there with the teenage boys. You deserve it.
Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah.
I can't think of anything worse
¶ Teenage Grandsons Update
actually. Actually, I must just say, I must just say that Logan, I'm always moaning about Logan at the moment, is an angel. He wakes up in the morning, he makes his bed, cleans his room. He's being phenomenal. He said to me yesterday, I wouldn't do this for mummy.
Yeah. So do you know the first thing that came to my head was. What's he done? What's he done? It's either, what's he after or what's he done?
Oh, in the end it's probably, what's he after? I'll, I'll get that later. Okay. And and the other one, the other one who goes to college, he's 18. Getting him outta bed in the morning is a nightmare, but he's just getting up and he is getting showered and going off to get his bus to college. The boys have been fabulous and they're helping.
Yeah. Fabulous. They, they don't sound like teenagers, I have to say. I do remember talking to Michael O'Neal about my children who are now 25, 24, and 21. Uh, this, so they, this was, or 10 years ago. And, um,
25, 24 and 20.
Oh, I can hear me. Um,
this is, yeah, that was me. I'm sorry.
Mm-hmm.
I'm
trying to
remember the message we've got.
And I remember saying to him, because he, he said, you know how the, how's the family? I said, it's really weird. Nothing bad's happened yet. And he said, um, it doesn't ha nothing bad has to happen, Steve. You realize that? I said, yeah, but I'm only going by other people that I know. And
no, I honestly, the boys have been fabulous. When, when, when Steve went off with Joey on Tuesday, I said to them, I said, look, I'm really busy. I've got a lot work to do. Um, I will obviously accommodate you. I'll make sure there's food in the fridge and, and you get what you need for college and school. I said, and they went, that's okay grandma. We'll help where we can.
Mm-hmm. Well see this. Will this, uh, hypnosis and persuasion and influence comes, doesn't it?
I, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And grandma's our best after all.
¶ Eurovision Banter
But I must say I love Norway's, uh, Eurovision entrance. Gotta feed the wolf a banana.
Oh, yes.
Before it ease my grandma.
Yeah. Um, uh, actually on, was it Saturday night? I got really into Eurovision. I felt European again. I do miss being. Yeah. Um, but it was a very cringe moment when I felt, oh no, please don't win.
I know. Yeah. We've been waiting 25 years. Be in the top 10 and it's the one year where we could have beaten the Ukraine and it was like, oh no, we can't, we can't.
Oh no. I just felt like, oh, we'd have to apologize. We're really sorry.
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah. But we didn't, so it's good.
Yeah.
¶ Membership Q&A Intro
So Tina, we have got, um, we got a list of questions, haven't we, from people? We
do have a list of questions. Yeah. Some, we've got people working. Hello. Hello. Jane. Regina Tanya's back from the Chippy. Hope you got
Fabulous.
A more Lee with your fish and chips.
Yeah. So we've got quite a list of questions actually, so it's good. I mean, the, the questions don't always get posted in the comments. These get emailed to us. Um, and most of 'em are related to the secret agents change membership sessions. So I guess we have to do a bit of a pre-frame to let those on in the membership group know what the, uh, lessons are about for the moment.
Ah, yes, we will. Yeah. And, and also with the questions, we set this up primarily for the people in our membership group and. When we've answered their questions, then we'll answer any other questions that, that we have. So shall I start?
¶ Coaching Gender Issues
So this month we were looking at relationships and we thought we'd look at gender. There's a whole lot that we often hear in the press from the l lgbtq plus community about various issues that they face and the things that, that are going on in their world. And one of my, well, one of our friends and, and somebody that works closely with us, with the the diploma and the clinical hypnotherapy training is Gloria Hammett. I always say she's a recovering psychotherapist.
So Gloria has spent a lot of time over, over the years working with people with transgender issues and she worked quite closely with, um, Dr. Wendy Peters, who is actually trans as a trans woman. And so I got together with Gloria and Wendy to basically ask them how they would like us as NLP coaches, as hypnotherapist to help the community. What can we do when we have a client from that community, specifically someone with trans and with gender issues? What can we do to help them?
Um, and we had some very interesting responses. I hadn't expected Dr. Wendy to explain about her transition, and I thought that was interesting for everybody because I think a lot of time you just don't understand. What somebody goes through when they're stuck and they really don't feel like they're in the right body. So if I go to the first question, which is, uh, here we go. Thank you Tina Gloria and Dr. Wendy Peters for such an informative discussion this month.
The conversation covered a broad range of issues, so I'm hoping to narrow it down. If approached by the L-B-G-T-Q community, what issues are likely to be presented and what do we have in our toolkit to help? Now, one of the things I said to Dr. Wendy right at the beginning is, I mean, I have had people ask me, how can we help people that are confused with their gender? And in my head.
I just kind of, well, I still think that whatever we do that works with human beings, works with human beings and we have a lovely process, you know, the NLP process of change and we don't really need content. We are just looking at the strategy, aren't we? We are looking at what they're doing in their head that isn't working and how we can give them the resources so that it does work.
So I think sometimes we just get tied up that this is a certain kind of person where the problems are faced just by them, but not necessarily. 'cause I think everybody needs confidence and self-esteem, as Dr. Wendy said, that that's what they need and, and possibly how to deal with. What's happening with the way they're being treated? I mean, we work with all sorts of people that have issues about being bullied or being threatened, and we have strategies for helping them.
And it's no different if they're transitioning Now, she did say that she got very impatient when she was transitioning, and, and I know that she was able to do this quite quickly compared to other people. Uh, and she was also able to pay for her surgery. So maybe there's something connected with that as well. Uh, do you want anything to add? Steve? Can you hear my neighbor's children screaming?
I can hear somebody screaming. I'm assuming it's,
I'm gonna go while you speak. I'm gonna go and close the door because the, okay, fair, fair. Next door playing in the garden. And I have,
I thought, I thought it was my internal dialogue for a moment there.
Yeah. No,
it's children. So why Tina is dealing with the screaming children next door. Um.
¶ Don't Impose Your Map
It. First of all, it was a fascinating conversation and I really appreciate Gloria and Tina and Dr. Wendy Peter, putting that together. Um, it's an area where I've not actually worked with anybody from the LGB GT LGBTQ plus community. Um, that's just not happened, which is actually quite a rare thing. It made me consider that, um, because I always say there isn't a situation which I've not worked with somebody. Um, but that's not true. This is an area where I've not worked with someone.
So the only thing I've gotta add is what occurred to me is that it seemed to me so important when working with, and I think it's important with anyone, working with anyone, is not to impose our map. Upon them.
Yes, I agree.
Yeah. To be very clean and make sure that our views, our opinions, our judgements, our biases, our beliefs don't in get in the way of allowing somebody to explore their own map.
Hmm.
Um, I know I've, I've think I've been borderline guilty of it on some occasions where, and, uh, maybe my ego's getting in the way with this when I say borderline guilty of it. So it might have had more, more than once where I've been working with someone and almost like gone, ah, I know what this person needs to do.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And then caught myself before I kind of lead the witness, your honor, and nudge them in a direction. Yeah. And I think any situation, and this one in particular, when people are making choices, making decisions, they're being influenced by all sorts of people and they're going through a long process and they're navigating what must be a difficult terrain. Um. You know, as a coach we are there to help them to navigate sometimes and not to do the navigation for them.
Not to say this is what you should do. Um, so that's anything. And it's just one other thing as well, really, I think you should, from an NL Ps perspective, also really listen out to the mod operators when you're working with someone.
Definitely.
Yeah. To see if, um, 'cause they'll give you clues as to, you know, whether there is, whether it's coming from them as well as whether they're being influenced. 'cause you, it's very difficult to not be influenced by other people's maps and that includes their friends, that includes their associates, that includes their families. So that's the only thing I'd like to add to that.
¶ Youth Transition Stories
Yeah.
And, and I think that could be an issue with the very young people. 'cause I know that one of my grandsons has a friend and when COVID kicked off in March, their friend who is biologically female. Was female. And then when their friend came to school, came back to school when school reopened in, in the autumn after all the shutdowns in COVID. Now he, his friend is a trans male. Um, now I'm, I'm not sure how I feel about that because his friend is only 14.
Um, but that said, he is convinced that he should be a boy. And I have had a few discussions with his mom because I've found that there are a lot of children now that are trans. I mean, both of my grandsons have friends that are trans. And one of them, I even said in the interview, one of them came out to me and we were at a family dinner. And my husband was there. Both my grandsons, my grandson's friend whose name was Josh.
And suddenly, while mid mouthful of Pizza, William Pizza Express, Josh said, I'm a girl and I want to be called Jessica. Um, and as Steve said, you've gotta stop your map. And I very nly went to that place in the life of Brian, where Eric Idle said I want to be. And I can't remember the name that Eric Idle said, want Eric Idle wanted to be a woman. And I, and I sort of stopped, 'cause Josh did play tricks and he did have a warp sense of humor.
And I looked at him and I just thought, no, he is serious. So I just said. Okay, do you want another Coke or are you done? Because he just made a statement. So I just accepted his statement and I did end up talking to Josh's mom who did have great difficulty in accepting, but Josh is now Jessica and is now going, Josh is, Jessica is now 18 and is going through all sorts of treatment and there seem to be a lot.
So sometimes I wonder is that because they didn't have a chance to come out before, or, I'm gonna be devil's advocate now Steve, part of me does think that some of them will have body dysmorphia and, and I have been told by Gloria that that is the case. Some of them where they go through the trans, um, I. And they start along that line to, to change and become trans male or trans female.
Um, there is a percentage of them that at some point realize that actually no, that's wrong and it is body dysmorphia. So I'm not quite sure how you coach somebody through that. Personally, when I've worked with someone, I've done everything. I've gone through well-formed outcomes to check if it's ecologically sound, you know, is it true to them? And I've had them go in and we've even done like IMRs, we've even done unconscious signals with the brain.
Um, and they have come out that it is true to them. And the people I've worked with who have transitioned are still transitioned now and are very happy with the changes they've made. Um, so I think it's just going with the process, the NLP process of change and instead of thinking this is someone. Is transitioning or is part of the l lgbtq plus community think this is a person, how can I be of service? How can I help them
as you're talking, they think about, a lot of clients come in telling us what they want and then when we sit with them and we meta model and we do the diagnostic, we then uncover what it is they need.
Yeah.
And that's where I think it can be tricky because, you know, when we know what someone needs, that could be imposing our map on them in conflict to what they want.
Yeah.
Yeah. So yeah, I think just, just be aware that, um, you know, you are not imposing your map and delivering. From my perspective, I always deliver what a client wants unless I really feel it's gonna be harmful to them. And then we'll have that, uh, conversation. And that will just be an ecology check. It won't be,
yeah.
You know, Steve Krabs judgment as to are they doing the right or wrong thing? It will be an exploration of let's just explore that if they're open to that.
Yeah. Because some of them may come talk to you because they are confused. I have spoken to one, one, I've only ever had one person that Gloria couldn't see. Um, and she referred this person to me and they were confused. Um, and well then
that's fine, isn't it? You know, someone's
going, I'm confused. Let's explore
that.
Yeah, yeah. So let's explore the confusion. So we, we, we explored what was going on in their head, what they were thinking. And then we went down, well-formed outcomes. Was it good for them? And 'cause the thing is with the trans community, if they're gonna be trans. I mean, this particular person, it was right for them, and they are now trans male. But at the session, the first time I spoke to him, it wasn't right because they were hurting their parents. So I think there's a lot of conflict
mm-hmm.
With these people as well. Um, and if you stick with the process and do all the things we've talked about, it's not, it's no different to coaching anybody else. Other people have conflict and we just coach them through it. It works. Yeah.
We coach them to get clarity,
don't we?
Yeah,
yeah.
Yeah. Excuse me. Yeah. It's fast. It's fascinating. Fascinating. A
so I knew that was gonna be a, a needy subject.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. I appreciate putting it together. Yeah.
¶ Marketing Pitch Advice
So I've got a question for you now.
Do you?
I do, yeah.
Fabulous.
Growing your practice promotion. Excuse
me.
Six degrees of Kevin Bacon networking.
It wasn't actually networking.
Okay.
No, it was,
I'm just reading what they said.
Yes, it was, uh, referrals.
Okay.
But I talked about networking. Yeah. Your network, but Okay. It wasn't networking. Continue.
Whilst I attend regular networking events, maybe that's what it's about.
Mm-hmm.
Most of my change work comes from word of mouth, from previous clients. Well done.
Mm-hmm.
Recently, which,
which by the way is referrals.
Yeah. Recently, one of my networking clients said that it's hard to refer to me because people rarely mention their mental health. It's another subject we had earlier. Another networking colleagues said that it's hard because lots of people don't know about an LPN hypnosis and are wary. This tells me that there's something wrong with my marketing message. What's your advice on the best pitch for personal change work? Good question.
Um, I'm not sure what I could answer. What is the best pitch? Um. There's an expectation of your network being able to explain to people what it is that you do. Um, so I'm answering the second part about lots of people don't know about NLP and hypnosis, nor do they need to.
Yeah,
what they're really interested in is, um, if you have a solution to their problem. So that's really what you wanna get better at in terms of your marketing message, uh, in terms of explaining what it is that you do for people. Give them and get them. Um, they couldn't care less if, if what you do is they rub their head, pat their head and rub their tummy, you might not be able to charge for that.
Um, so that, that's the first adjustment I would make, uh, get clarity on your, um, explanation as to the benefits of what you do for your clients, because that's all somebody else has to be able to convey and pass on. Now the trouble is, especially in networking events, you're expecting somebody to reproduce the explanation you've just given to the person at the networking event. So I mentioned this, um, when I was talking about, um. The collaborative conversation, the sales conversation.
Okay. That at the very, one of the early stages of having a collaborative conversation, which is like taking an order, you wanna make sure that the person you're talking to is the person that makes the decision to book in with you. Okay? Now, the reason you wanna do that is because if it's not the person who makes the decision, you're gonna have a conversation with them.
They're gonna go away and they're gonna delete, they're gonna distort, they're gonna generalize and try to explain what you've just explained to somebody else, and they're not gonna get it, right? So if they've gotta explain to someone else, you want that person there. So either with the networking people, they have to really understand what it is you do or what's even better. Give them an experience.
Yeah.
Do a demo demo. A lot of these networking events enable people to get up and they're, sometimes they're very desperate for someone to get up and do something. That's interesting. If you've been to anything. Yeah. Um, give people an experience. The best thing you do is, you know, not talk about coaching coach. Yeah. So I'm using coaching for NLP hypnosis the whole lot. Give people an experience of what you do.
Then they'll go away and talk about, wow, this is what I got and this is what I did and this is what it did for me. And quite often their enthusiasm will be persuasive enough.
Hmm.
Yeah. So stop talking about it. Um, demonstrate it. Yeah. And you're absolutely right about mental health. Um. You know, we were talking about this before we came online. Um, but there is stigma attached to admitting, you know, someone's stressed, they're depressed, they're anxious. There still is, even though a lot of people are talking about it more openly. Um, so you've gotta get across, you've gotta, you're fighting against that stigma.
People, I, I call it the free stress monkeys, where people don't wanna talk about it, they don't want to hear about it, and they don't even wanna see it. Um, so yeah, stop talking about mental health, but give someone an experience of what wellbeing is, what you can do for them in terms of helping them to maybe be more calm or relaxed de-stress. At the end of the day, give them something that they can talk about and, uh, they can talk about having had an experience of it.
That's where I would go with that.
And I think a lot of people. Connect. When you talk about you have mental health issues, people start thinking about people that have nervous breakdowns. People aren't talking about somebody that is stressed or suffers from anxiety. They think that you've got, you have nervous breakdowns or you have panic attacks. They think of something huge and, and what they're imagining in their head, um, needs to change, I think.
Mm-hmm. And actually, I'm just looking at it again, there's something else I wanna talk about in terms of this one, um, which is the most of my change work. Comes from word of mouth, from previous clients.
Hmm.
Put the focus there. What is it that you're doing in order to get most of the work from previous clients? And how many different ways are you currently getting referrals? Maybe you've got two ways of doing it. Well, what happens if you put three or four different ways in?
Could you double the amount that you're getting, put the focus on what's already working and see if you can improve what's already working rather than putting the attention to something that's not working and trying to make that work. That's where I'd go with that. If you were, let say, for example, if you, one of my clients and we are looking at your marketing, uh, the first place I'd go is, well, what's works?
Hmm.
Yeah, because quite often people aren't really maximizing what works for them. There's always something else they could do to improve it. So if what you're looking for is more clients. Look at the area where you already get most of your change work and make sure that you've really, um, you're squeezing the most out of the referrals from your pre previous clients first.
Definitely. So, I'm gonna bounce back up
¶ Culture Identity in Relationships
now. Um, on the list, talking relationships. I recently worked with a Muslim lady following an arranged marriage and divorce that caused her to be disowned by her parents. Her male friend has proposed, but she was in two minds because she liked the company, but a new husband would expect more. How does she know that? Hmm. More what specifically she thought and was worried she would let him down.
How do you support clients whose cultural identity is holding them back, especially when it comes to relationships.
My goodness. You guys have gone down some rabbit holes on you. What is it we used to say about, you know, sometimes we won't answer specific case studies. Yeah. 'cause you need to be with the person, but, okay. Yeah.
Yeah. Now you see, one of the things I love about what we do, you know, we've got a process, much like I said, when we were talking about the, you know, the, the gender issues. We have a process. We don't even really need content, do we? If you think about it, we could do it all content free as we're working with a process. And if you take the process, it makes everything else we do so easy. And it's also one of the reasons why we say, I. It's very difficult to advise on specific issues.
'cause you need the person in front of you. You need to be calibrating, you need to be listening for metaprograms modal operators. What exactly is it they're saying? Um, is she saying that she's worried that if she gets married, the husband will expect things that she won't do? Um, I don't know. What is it? I I, there was a lovely Sikh lady who had a, an amazing arranged Sikh marriage and unfortunately, and it was a love match. They adored each other.
Her husband got killed in a car crash and she fell in love with her husband's best friend who wasn't Sikh. He was white. And she got disowned by her family, but she did marry him. And, and when the babies came, the family forgave her. I know that's not necessarily the case all the time. I think with all of these things, you have to go with what your client gives you and by listening to them, they'll tell you exactly what's going on in their head.
And once you've heard what's really happening, 'cause it's really difficult for us to diagnose from your filtering out of what was said. So listen, pay attention to what's happening and do the coaching, just as we've said with all the gender issues with, with any coaching you do. Pay attention to the person. What do they want? How can you be of service?
But keep the questions coming guys, by the way, don't. Okay. Yeah. Don't take that as us saying No, no, no. Don't send us these question.
No,
no, no. Because what, we'll, what we'll do is what we, we've been doing all the way along. I'll, I'll point you back to the NLP process and you know, the conditions of well-formed outcomes. Yeah. And go check the ecology. Yeah. Explore the ecology with them. You know, there's so many things you could explore. Get them to explore timelines. Now, obviously we can't predict the future, but they can get a sense of the future.
Help guide them to make the right choices and decisions for them, not the ones we think they should be doing. The, the choices they should be making. Hmm.
And regardless as to cultural mismatch or whatever, or different cultures coming together. If she's worried about what his expectations are of her and her not being able to fulfill them, I mean, that could be all sorts of things. It could be her lack of self-esteem, self-confidence. It could be stuff connected to what happened with the arranged marriage that didn't work.
There could be all sorts of things in there, but until you talk to her and get this information, you won't know what's going on in there. It may even be that actually she's not meant to be with this person.
This is also something else just occurred to me, especially with relationships, it is so important to keep your map out of the way.
Oh
yeah. Um, because if you ever impose your map and you get it wrong, guess Oh God, guess who's gonna be blamed? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah.
Uh, yeah,
I, I mean I just think it's fascinating that we've had two questions, two really good questions, guys, and Yes, do keep them coming. One to do with like gender and one to do with, um, related
identity. Yeah. Which is still the same thing.
Yeah. Which is, and it's still the same thing. We're still looking at identities, aren't we? You know, genders and identity, different cultures are different identities. So those two questions could actually have the same answer.
Yeah. And, and explore the logical levels. Yeah.
It's,
it's kind of obvious, isn't it, really? You look at the identities that you say identities hold them back, but what's supporting the identity? There'll be beliefs and values and possibly conflicts. And sometimes those conflicts could. Just Right. That's part of the ecology.
Yeah. And there'll be experiences and strategies and all sorts of stuff going on down there.
Mm-hmm. Interesting. Interesting.
Yeah. Are you ready? This is for you. I do like to give you your fair share. Thank you. You are welcome.
¶ Networking Reciprocity Question
Having read, think and Grow Rich, I love the fact that successful networks uphold the laws of the universe and givers gain. Certainly resonate. Oh, give us gain certainly resonates with me, however, but you, I just forget about what. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Let's delete all that out.
Just delete all that. Now we, the nitty gritty,
this is the reality. Yeah.
Um, about the
reciprocity.
Thank you. Mm-hmm. But Steve talked about this month my current networking data shows that I've given far more referrals than I've received. My belief is that I am gaining via referrals from clients who know my work. In two minds about whether formal paid networking is for me in the longer term. Just wondering if you've ever joined a formal networking group and how well it worked for you.
Okay, so I'll pick that one up. So the real question is just wondering if you've ever joined a formal networking
¶ Networking Mixed Results
group. The answer is yes. A couple. Yeah. And how well it worked for you. Well, the wellness of that is based upon, um, how much work I got from it, which wasn't a great deal. Um, so the first networking group was nearly 20 years ago. It's one of these breakfast things we had to turn up every month for a breakfast meeting. And, and by the way, it turned out for a month. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it seemed like a lot. Yeah. Once a month. Back then, it seemed like a real, real commitment.
Um, what was really interesting in my experience back then, um, and there could only, in this particular networking group, there could only be one person in a particular industry. So you weren't competed against other people in, in the group. Um, everyone was really interested and I think this is just the specific network because I'm not saying this is general because I know there are other networks that, um, may, may well work. This is just my experience, which is the answer to the question.
Um. I was being pitched and sold to by everybody. Yeah. Which is why we are there. Yeah. To, yeah.
Yeah.
But actually I, I thought we were there to collaborate and support each other. Yeah. Um, but the reciprocity certainly didn't seem to be there, not with that particular group. Now I did have a better experience with a networking group, which was a local authority. In fact, two of them actually, um, oh, actually I just remembered actually saying this. I did a lot of networking before I got into coaching, and that was with, um, Merton Council.
Um, back in those days it was run by a local group and they actually had a really good network. And I did get a lot of, uh, this was it support work. You know, I had of, one of my companies was an IT company, um, but we were quite a big fish. Um, in that pond back in those days, um, we employed about 12 people, so quite a big employee in the area. So I got a quite a bit of work from that.
Um, but there was a different vibe about that, that was very, very supportive and very collaborative, and that was, that was kind of led by the people that were running the network. Um, the other more positive one I had recently as a coach was with, uh, Kingston, Kingston, uh, chamber of Commerce.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but, but that did change actually because it became less of a, a local, uh, community, collaborative community and more of like a London Borough run type thing. So I think it all depends upon the people that are running the network. That's been my
¶ Best Groups Demonstrate
experience. If they are really into supporting collaboration, they kind of lead from the top and everyone wants to know about everybody else. And you get the chance to get up and present. And, and I go back to the, to the, the first question about, um, referrals and promotion. With networking, if you get the chance to demonstrate what you do, grab it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Rather than just talking about it. Yeah. If you get the chance to get somebody to stand up and do something, grab it.
¶ Speaker Wow Moments
Oh, actually, I just remembered one networking experience, which was absolutely phenomenal. So, so it, this tells you that some of the disasters and some, some are great, but it was a, it was a LinkedIn entrepreneurs group. I was invited to be the guest speaker and it was a private members club up in, um, Mayfair. And I turned up at this. Beautiful Georgian building. It had a massive door and you opened it and it was a, it was a very weird club.
It was a big room that had a spaceship in the middle as a bar. Okay. It was pretty cool. Yeah. Um, and I had 15 minutes to do a give a talk and these were all LinkedIn entrepreneurs. So 15 minutes, what am I gonna do? I need to do something that's a bit, wow. Uh, I, I, I really can't recall what I did and now, but 15 minutes, you've gotta make an impact. So I remember I had the mic, um, and I did something to do with hypnosis. Yeah. That's it. I did a fast induction on, so on.
So it's all business people. You've gotta get their attention. So I just did a very fast induction. Did something about, yeah, imagine in the future, finished the 15 minutes, talked a little bit about the power of the mind, et cetera, and there were 50 people in the room. You couldn't get more than 50 in this particular room, but it was about 150 people in the, in the event. Yeah. Most were just mingling and, and drinking and passing cards.
And then the um, guy who set it all up came up to me, took the mic and said, well, we normally do 15 minutes, but I'm fascinated. Would you do more? And I went, yeah, sure. I'll keep going. Does everyone want Steve to carry on? Yeah. So I carried on and like an hour and a half later, I'm now doing a stage show. It's turned into a stage show. Um, but I was just taking questions and answers. Yeah. And. That, that was a good experience. I've got a ton of work out of that.
Actually got some work on Sky TV as a result of that. So I think it's just, you've gotta look for the right groups. Yeah. Yeah. That really collaborate. You know, I wouldn't, you know, take one experience and generalize it to all. Uh, that would be my answer to that. So yeah, bit of a mixed bag. I've not found it to be the most effective return on my time. Uh, that's been my experience, but only if I'm not given the chance to demonstrate. Yeah. I grab every opportunity to demonstrate what I do.
That turns into work. Yeah.
¶ Breakfast Clubs Authority
Perfect. I mean, I've, I've, I've never joined any of these breakfast clubs. I've been invited many times and I did go along twice to two different clubs locally. It just didn't feel right to me, so I just didn't bother.
And you're not a morning person, are you?
I'm not a morning person. Every
time you zoom in the morning, it's like,
yeah, no, go and have your coffee. I'm not morning person. This is why when we train
guys,
you see this? I do
crab eat till I get my coffee.
I said, get
you, you one of these.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I've actually got a cup that was bought for me. And, and at at the top it says, shh. And then there's a little line that says not yet. And then when you get to the bottom of the cup, it says, now you may speak, yeah, know Molly, but I did go to a couple of these, didn't feel right for me. Um, Gloria, the, the covering psychotherapist, she joined loads of these. Um, and I know she did get quite a lot of work, but the work came from, um. Going to, uh, lu a lunch club.
So she'd go along to this lunch club and they'd have different people come in and do presentations for like 40 minutes to a group of professionals having lunch. Um, and she'd go to that lunch club and she'd got loads of work from there.
Was she doing the presenting?
She was, yeah. Yeah,
yeah. See, I think that's the difference, isn't it? Because when you're doing the presenting, you are already established as the authority.
Yeah.
Yeah. So there's, there's something there about, you're already perceived to be somebody that's worth paying attention to.
And I think this was a, this was like a, a business group. Uh, I mean, Gloria's from Southampton, so it's got to be in the Southampton area. And they would have different people come in periodically and do like a lunchtime talk.
Hmm.
They'd do a 40 minute talk while everybody was eating their lunch. And she said she got a lot of business from that.
Yeah. See that. So there's also slightly different dynamics to that, to some of the other networking events I've been where people have already paid to go to listen to someone and do a bit of networking. So, you know, you've got that benefit of being the person that stands up and you've got a captive audience already. They've, they've paid to listen to you over their chicken dinner. Yeah. Yeah. Chicken in the basket. Yeah.
That said, why don't you just remind me one of these breakfast clubs belonged to the local, um, are they the, called the Lions or something? They, they do stuff for charity anyway, they were having a dinner and they invited me to go along and be their speaker and I got loads of work from that.
Mm. Yeah,
same thing. I'm the authority, I'm the one that's talking.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and make sure that you give them a Wow. I remember Michael o' Neil, um, it was on a. Coaching or hypnosis, I can't remember now. Uh, but do you remember him saying, okay, everybody go out to the assistant team, they're gonna give you a wow party. And I remember all the assistants coming and going, what's a wow party? I went, I guess we're just gonna make 'em feel, wow. You know, I wasn't listening. Yeah. A lesson to machine Pay attention. Yeah. Pay attention.
Um, and it was a case of they come out and you do a bit bit of quick work, change work with somebody.
Yeah.
Where they go, wow.
Mm.
You gotta make sure that you give them that wow experience. So they go, wow, this is something that's worth painting if you do not always
makes them feeling good.
Yeah. If you do not get the attention, you don't have the privilege to then, you know, make them interested and build up the desire for them to go, oh, I wanna know more. Yeah.
Yeah. Right next one. Ooh, congratulations Tina. Thank you very much. It's great to read that your painless childbirth book is now being enjoyed in French. Haha. Did you
write this one yourself?
No.
Okay. Right.
¶ Niche Versus Franchise
What's your advice to clinical hypnotherapy diploma graduates who would like to niche in this area but are up against
niche?
Ni? Is it niche
because it rhymes with rich.
Okay. Niche in this area, but are up against the hypnobirthing franchise worldwide. So yes. For those that don't know, there is a franchise out there called Hypnobirthing. Um, and I teach my way of doing painless childbirth, which incorporates NLP Design, human Engineering, and hypnotherapy.
I suppose so this Hypnobirthing franchise has been out there a long time and I was in the UK running my classes and my book had been published and, and I got contacted by this woman called Mickey Mongan, this American woman who is the founder of the Hypnobirthing franchise, and she invited me to go meet with her and she was running a course at St. St Thomas's, at Tommy's, I think in London.
Anyway, there were all sorts of people going to this course, and I went along and she let me sit in on her course, which I thought was very generous of her. I got to see what she taught. Um hmm. That was very generous of her, and it also led me to identify the differences between what she teaches and what I teach. So when people ring me up and say, um, some of them would say, well, I've seen that there's hypnobirthing. Do you do hypnobirthing?
Or they might just ring up and say, I understand you work with people that are gonna have babies. Do you do hypnobirthing? Now, the first answer that I have to give is, no, I'm not part of that, that franchise. What I would say is something along the lines of, um, I teach women how to have a painless childbirth experience. It's not called hypno birthday because Mickey Mongan has tried to trademark the name. Uh, she failed, but I still don't say I do hypnobirthing.
So I teach women how to have painless childbirth and the classes and the way that it works. Is we teach them how to access what they already have. Now, Miki is all tied up in scripts. So if you are a hypnobirthing person, you are given a load of scripts that you read to your class for the first week, and then there are four weeks, and then the next week you read the next lot of scripts and the next lot. And the next lot.
So everything is scripted Now as neers, we know better than that and we know how to create what our audience and our clients need. So when I ran my job, birth classes, everything we did was what they happen to need at that point in time. It wasn't scripted. Now, there are scripts in my book, but I even say in my book, this is to give you an idea of the things that you can do. So we teach, uh.
Our students, how to use what they have, how to anchor good feelings, how to collapse bad anchors, all those NYLPI things that Mickey Mongan doesn't have.
What's her name?
Mickey Mongan. M-O-N-G-A-N.
This the sort of stuff I gee geek out on Mickey Mongo.
I, I mean, I got, so I got to go to this class and it was fascinating, um, watching her basically just,
it was Marie Mongo,
is it Mary? It was
Marie. Marie.
Marie. It was definitely Mickey Mongan, obviously. Oh, probably,
yeah. Bering. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably a nickname. Yeah.
Um, yeah, it was, it was all very script driven. There was no leeway. Um, yeah, it just fascinated me. And somebody actually said, said, well, uh, she said, and this, this is the time when you deal with all their fears and anxieties. And somebody said, what if they don't have fears and anxieties? She said, everybody has fears and anxieties. And I'm thinking, Hmm. But obviously she's, she's coming from a different system.
She's, she's done, she's actually done, um, some Ericksonian hypnosis stuff. Um, yeah, it's just two different ways of. Doing the same thing.
Yeah, it's interesting. I, I mean, I just, you can probably tell that I, I am paying attention, but I'm actually doing some Google, Google search. I know
you're Googling.
Yeah. I mean, I, I dive into this. I, like, I would wanna know everything about the Hypnobirth and International franchise. Mm. To see what they're doing, what works, so I can model it as, um, put my own spin on it. Um, there are 492,000 Google searches, um, and I'm certainly for the uk and I'd be surprised if all of them select Hypnobirth in international. Um, so there's, there's this huge market.
There's an enormous market now. She tried to trademark Hypnobirthing and she failed, um, which I'm rather thankful for because I'm going to Italy the beginning of June. Um, and in Italy they're telling everybody that I'm teaching hypnobirthing and I'm like, well, I'm not actually teaching hypnobirthing. And they're going, well, you are teaching hypnosis and birthing.
¶ Differentiate Your Offer
Yeah. But the, the, the question that they ask is, what's your advice to clinical hypnotherapy diploma s who would like to niche in this area Yeah. But are up against the hypnobirth in franchise worldwide. So your niche Okay. Can be a big number of people. A large number of people. Yes. Yeah. So one, if there's somebody out there who seems to be dominating the market and smashing it, it tells you that there's a, there's a market which is good. Yeah. You want that? Yeah.
So there is an enormous market for this.
Yeah. And you, you wanna differentiate yourself from a face, this franchise. That's another way to look at that and, you know, really make sure that you're given, uh, one way to look at, it's to give themself a offer, which is very personable. You know, you be the person and build rapport rather than go and working with a franchise. You know, I mean, this is an area where I will have no experience whatsoever in terms of coaching people, um, around painless childbirth.
Um, I have coached people around, um, conceiving, um, but that was a long, long time ago. Um, but it's about running the business.
It is,
yeah. So do the research, find out as much about them as you possibly can, but make sure you put your spin on it so that people have got rapport with you rather than with just a, a franchisee.
And I, and I always say, and I don't, I mean I'm delivering pain, uh, techniques and methodologies which can enable you to have a more comfortable birth experience. I don't say that I'm teaching hypnobirthing because there is a hypnobirthing model out there, and that's not what I do. And I go, well, how is yours different? And I say, well, mine is different because I utilize neurolinguistic programming. I've designed human engineering and I know you dunno what that is. Let me tell you.
Using those techniques means that I can teach you so much easier how you can access the state you need to be in when you're giving birth, how you can get rid of any negativity or any worries you've got about the birth and how you can build something that will not only help you have a painless childbirth, but you can use for the rest of your life. That usually works.
Mic drop.
Yeah. Yeah. So, oh look, here's one for both of us.
¶ Quitting Job Security
Um, having learned an LPN hypnosis with a view to changing careers, I'm still working. My change work is more like a hobby. What's your advice to someone who is ready to become self-employed but remaining employed for security? Do you wanna go first?
Well, I've got no advice really, um, because that would be imposing my map upon your decision making process.
Yeah.
What we would explore is what would have to happen in order for you to feel secure. Well, first of all, is this what you really, really, really want in order for it to become, uh, a full-time business? Do you know how to run a full-time business and run a profitable business? 'cause 80% of business owners don't. That's why 80% go past. Um, and what has to happen for you to feel secured? Let's explore that. That's where I would go with that.
Yeah.
Um, I wouldn't be telling anyone to go, you know, stop your full-time job. Go. They may not have the skills, they may not have the expertise in order to create a professional, predictable business based upon five star ideal clients that can navigate its way through the ups and downs of, um, recessions and depressions. Some people, people that security is a full-time job, is what they need. Although actually I do think it's quite interesting.
I don't think there's anything that's really that secure anymore.
No, I don't think there is. No, it didn't. Yeah. I mean, when I first started, um, I worked for an investment bank in the city of London. Um, I was a training and development director, so my salary was rather nice. Thank you very much.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I, I just hesitated for a while and I thought, oh, look, I've just gotta do this or it's never gonna happen. I had everything mapped out. I knew I was gonna do, I had a plan, so I just left. Um, and then for a while, I, I took on short-term contracts. So while I was building it, if something came up and somebody wanted me to go and do something for a month or a couple of months to cover for someone, I would dive in. I'd treble the money I was charging them.
To go and do the project for them. And then I thought, well, hang on a minute. If I can treble the money doing that, I can treble the money doing my coaching and my hypnosis and my hypnotherapy. So then I just walked away and never looked back.
Hmm. It's interesting 'cause the last part of the question is what's your advice to someone who's ready to become self-employed, but
yeah.
Remaining employed for security. So where, where's the h hierarchy of values there? Yeah. Security. The security.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Okay. Um, stay secure if that's all you wanna do.
Yeah.
Nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with treating it as a hobby.
Some people are really happy having a hobby, something that eats up their spare time.
And it could be very profitable, lucrative hobby as well. It can, can, you can have the best of both worlds. Yeah. In fact, you know, it'd be interesting to explore this, you know, remain employed for your security and double your rates.
Yeah. See what happens.
Double your rates and see what happens. And then when people will say yes, then double them again and see what happens.
Yeah. I mean, I, I, I left and doubled my rates and then troubled my rates and I thought, well, you know, I can do this. What are you worth?
Me?
No, I'm talking to this person here. I know what you are worth.
Indeed. So hopefully that gave you something to think about. Are you really, really, really ready?
Yeah.
Not sure. Let's explore that.
Yes.
What's stopping you?
Ooh.
¶ Phobia Client Compliance
So I have to do this one especially 'cause on Sunday we are gonna be doing this on Sunday. I love this one. Phobias. I'm currently working in progress with desensitizing, a client who had claustrophobia. Okay. So she doesn't have it anymore. She can now enter a shop with an open door and very nearly close the door in a room with no windows. Having stayed outta shops and rooms with no windows for over a year. Okay?
My client understands how to change her state and we've collapsed lots of anchors, but there's still a way to go. It's a young person who isn't following my instructions, Hmm, and is requesting that I force her all advice. Welcome. So I'm gonna start this time.
Go for it. Yeah.
I love this. I mean, on Sunday we got, because
you know young people don't you?
The last day of our licensed practitioner of NLP, and we are gonna be teaching our students Sunday morning how to help people get rid of their fears and phobias. The demo isn't gonna take that long. He doesn't have that long. We've got things to do. I say him because it's, it's him. Um,
well, am I gonna, am I doing the demo again?
Look, you know, do you wanna do the demo or the tournament?
Oh, I'll do the demo. No worries.
The, the setup is important. Yeah, the setup's important. And then the demo. Now desensitization is something that's taught in clinical hypnotherapy courses, and in fact, it's taught in the ICCH diploma. Because we have to, it has to be part of the syllabus 'cause it is considered to be a valuable part of clinical hippotherapy. It isn't anything I use and I never used to teach it.
You see, because I think the answer lies in something that Steve and I have said many, many, many times, um, from what I've read out to everybody here. So, for somebody to get change, they have to want to change, know how to change, give themselves time to change. And I'm gonna add a fourth one to follow instructions. I know when I've worked with young people, especially teenagers and, and young. Pre-teen people.
Um, sometimes they like to be quite manipulative and they don't always follow instructions for a reason. They get attention and there's other stuff my gut is telling me going on here without even having seen this client or had anything to do with them. Um, now I have an adult who isn't following instructions at the moment. Lovely guy from the east end of London, traveled all the way to see me here he is from Bow Mill War supporter and he looks like a mill war support.
He's got broken nose cauliflowers tattoos, looks like a thug. Sorry if there's any mill war supporters watching, but they do have a reputation in this country. Um, salt of the earth. Lovely bloke. He loves coming to talk to me. He came to see me because he said he had a phobia of flying. Um, and then he flew out to Spain with his wife for two weeks and then he came back and I said, you've been on a plane. That's great. You haven't been on a plane for years.
Yeah, but I still think there's more for us to do, doll. So he came to see me and we, we had another chat and I did another session with him and off he went. And now he's flown. He went to, he went to Rome for his birthday, sent me a message from Rome. Bit better, but I think I need to come back now. I know from our little chats, he's lonely even though he is been married for a long time. Uh, his wife's coming into dementia and she forgets things.
And when he, he's gonna come back 'cause he says he wants to come back and have another appointment. We are gonna discuss then what it is that he really wants. Because he's not following instructions. I know he doesn't have a phobia anymore. 'cause he can get on a plane. And I know that from what you said, this person can do certain things, but she's not following instructions. So what else is going on over to you crabby?
Yeah.
¶ Ecology Checks Upfront
Uh, I agree with absolutely everything Tina said. Um, we come back to checking the ecology. We come back to the NLP presupposition. Every behavior serves a purpose at some level. And when it comes to the, uh, conditions of well-formed outcomes is checking to see what is the, what else this person getting from staying with this behavior. Yeah. And exploring that. But that's something I think you have to sort out at the very beginning as part of the pre-frame.
Yeah. Um. Because if you, if you're getting the compliance, if they want to change, there's nothing stopping them from changing, which is the ecology check, the how to change, you know how to do that.
Mm-hmm.
All they have to do is follow your instructions and they will change with all those conditions in place. This is a quick piece of change work.
It is. Yeah.
Yeah. So I su suggest you may have missed something at the very beginning. Yeah. In terms of part of your diagnostic. Um, it's an area to look at, to check that there isn't something there isn't so benefit to. Look, we talk about a young person here, there's normally tons of other reasons why they're getting attention. They're getting significance.
They're, you know, there, there's so many other reasons that they could be very resistant to actually doing the change, even though they're telling you that they, they want to. Yeah. So you've gotta be quite robust and thorough at the very be. Of your diagnostic.
Yes, you do. So we've now five past eight.
Yeah. Which by the way, you can't do on a demo, so you have to be really good when you do a demo. Yeah, I'm I'm just saying the, the demos always go well, but you have to be, when it comes to choosing your demo subject, you can't do the ecology check, but you do have to make sure the person follows your instructions. You'll get the results if they follow you. The instruct, the instructions.
And that's the benefit with choosing Wisely.
Yeah. Choosing the demo subjects wisely. Yes. I've already started to choose the demo subject two weeks ago. Yeah,
I'm sure you did.
Yeah. Yes, I know who is my victim.
I'm looking to fit him up. People, but I fitted him up before and he is managed to get away with it, so we'll see.
Yeah, because you know, it's one of Richard's approaches, isn't it? You know, my clients are gonna change his, or one of us is gonna die trying and it's not gonna be me.
No.
Yeah. They're gonna be the best demo subject ever. Yeah.
¶ Wrap Up And Events
So, um, we've still got a quick few questions, but we're out of time now. That's five, past six, past eight. There's a few we're gonna have to roll over to, um, June. We've got some from April. Okay, that's good.
Yeah, yeah.
Um,
yeah, because we ran outta questions, um, in run out of, um, time in April. So it's brilliant. Keep the questions coming people. We love all of your questions.
Yeah, thank you. I haven't been checking to see as online, but thank you for being here. Thank you for showing up and if you're watching the replay, um, oh yeah. Plenty of comments from Tanya and Jane. Thank you for being here, guys. And um,
yeah, yeah, there's a lot. There's some good, there's some good comments.
Yeah. Fabulous. So, Tina, we've got some things to do. We've got a practitioner starting tomorrow.
We do. We
got tomorrow. We have business alchemy. For those of you that haven't yet made the decision to join us,
yes. Come and join us Three days in Cha Wales at Glastonbury. We're gonna be doing all sorts of magical stuff. Magical.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Baptisms. Can we do baptisms, Tina?
We're gotta do baptisms. Yeah. Because we have the cha
worlds,
the Chalice worlds garden privately all to ourselves on Saturday evening, and we've got some interesting things we're gonna be doing.
Can we swim in it?
Yeah, you get in it if you want to.
Really? Okay.
Oh yeah.
We're not allowed to tell anyone that. Yeah,
it's not. It's
not. Because don't they sell, don't they sell the holy water?
No, no, no. They don't sell it. You, you, well, you pay to get into the gardens normally, and then you go to the top of the gardens where the water's coming out. The. And it's all been tested and fit for you consumption, guys. And then you take your little cup and you can fill it with water.
Oh, okay. So we can swim in the bit downstream from where they're
drinking. Yeah. Downstream. Fabulous. Okay.
That'll be good. Yes.
You dream it upstream, you're swimming it downstream.
Fabulous. Okay, I'm gonna do that. So yeah, come and join us guys is gonna be amazing. Magic meditation and manifestation. We've got some pretty cool things planned for you. We do. Um, but if you're not there, you're gonna miss out. Yeah. Remember that fear of missing out and, and double it. And double it some more. Okay?
Okay guys, live long, prosper. Have fun. And we'll see you in June.
Mm. What she said. Yeah.
What she said. Yeah. Bye.
Bye-Bye.