¶ Going Live Banter
It says we're live and it says we're recording. So
wait, it says we're recording.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, look. And we're live. Okay, now I believe it. Now I've seen it. Seeing is believing. So how
Tina? Yeah. Tina Taylor's world. It seeing is definitely believing.
Seeing is believing. I need to see it. I wanna touch it. I wanna feel it.
Did you ask me how was I, or are you asking every, everyone that's here, how are they?
Well, I was asking how are you.
Oh, do you really wanna know
ages? No, no. Let's get, let's get, let's get past that. Okay.
No, listen, I'm fabulous swiftly, I'm, I'm fabulous. Just feeling a bit Summer, summer fluey. But nowadays you get a sniffle and everyone goes straight for the. Testing of the nose and things like that, you know, I don't do that. Oh, you know, a bit, a bit of summer sniffle, but apart from that, got slightly sore voice. Um, but I did a training today and it was about, uh, um, radical honesty. So I've been shouting at people.
Oh, I love a bit of radical honesty.
Yeah. Radically honest. Let's get, you know, let's get grubby with the truth, so,
yeah.
Yeah,
definitely.
So, I'm fabulous though, Tina. I'm fabulous.
¶ Updates Books Travel Courses
How are you?
Always fabulous. Now I am absolutely amazing. I've got lots of interesting things I've been doing. Um, second edition of my book, I've been sorting out to go on, uh, Amazon and I'm gonna do some audible recording and lots of things.
We've both got a second edition book coming out, haven't we?
We do, yeah.
Yeah. I've got my living phobia free. And, and yours is Pain,
painless childbirth,
painful child rearing.
Yeah, that's it. That's the one, yeah. Yeah. I've been talking to Marco in, uh, in Delhi. Um, he's been asking me what flights do I want, because I'm going to Italy as well in June. Nice,
nice.
Um, I'm gonna be running a worldwide live webinar on hypnotic anesthesia. And when they asked me to do it, I said, yes, I would, but only if you take me to Italy. And I said,
of course, well done,
but it's online. And I went, yes.
From Italy. Fabulous guys. You know, hopefully, you know, those of you that are here watching this, you learn, you know, the importance of practicing your persuasion and influence. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I'd love to do that for you guys in Italy. Yes.
Oh, that's fabulous. Well, uh, we had our call with Mindvalley the other day, um, with Mr. McKenna. So we're heading out to Estonia to record a hypnosis course for Mindvalley, which is gonna be fabulous for our, our students as well. That
would
be, yeah. So that's, that's gonna be quite interesting. So I'm looking forward to see how the mind value people function. That's good. Yeah. Uh, the good thing about Paul is we do everything first class.
Of course. Excuse
me. Always.
I go first class.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, so yeah, it's turning out to be quite a, quite an event for and productive year, isn't it?
It is, yeah. Yeah. I mean, Costa Rica was amazing. Loved Costa Rica. I'm just opening, I'm just opening our questions. We got a lot of questions.
Yeah. By the way, hello everyone who's here? Yes, thank you for Hello everyone showing up. Dunno how many people are with us today.
Um, yeah, I can see Jane. I'm gonna wave at Jane.
Hi Jane. So I'm just checking the group. Yeah. So we've got some questions. We've had quite a few actually coming, haven't we?
We have, yeah. We've got quite a few questions here. Um, so shall I start?
You start, Tina. I'll just follow,
¶ Client Hope Learned Helplessness
right? So, um, now I posted on the Facebook page about hope because when we were in, uh, Orlando, uh, Richard said he believed one of the reasons that Virginia Satia was so, uh, powerful and so good at what she did, is that people turned up to see her, um, completely broken down and devastated. And he, she gave them hope. Um, so I put that post on Facebook and it's caused, um, an res interesting stir. Um, some people don't like the word hope. Um, somebody said they needed to ize hope.
And I said, well, that's, that's good. When you de normalize an nominalization, you then get someone's strategy. And that's always helpful because then you'll know how they're doing, what they're doing. Um, and they asked how do you give your clients hope? And when people come to see me, a lot of the time, it's a bit like, um, princess Lair on Star Wars help me, Obi one Kenobi. You know, you are my only hope.
Um, I mean, you know this, Steve, they turn up and they've got all these problems and they'll tell you they've, they've been, and they've tried this and they've tried that and they've done all these different things and they're still stuck in the problem state. And when that happens, you need to be able to get it so that they believe there's a way out. If you're dealing with somebody who's so tunnel visioned and stuck, you know, make me do it, make me change.
I've tried everything. It doesn't work. You have to do it for me.
There needs to be that belief that it can happen first. And in this particular, I suppose it's semantics. I'm calling that hope. That's what I understood Richard to mean as hope. But of course, other people will look at hope and think it's something else.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I saw the post, I did comment on it, and I was just, as we were talking, I was, I was just flicking back through some of the, some of the other comments. Um, I think that whole conversation about people showing up in a place of learned helplessness is an important one of any, any of you that are doing any coaching or therapy work, especially, you're going to encounter that. You're definitely gonna encounter that because they've maybe they've tried everything.
How many times have you heard that? I've tried everything.
Oh, yeah. Everything.
And you go everything. Yeah. Challenge at Universal Quantifier or they've, uh, amount of times I've been quoted gurus who people have seen.
Oh
yeah. I, and they, yeah. Okay. And, and you're still in that stuck state. So because they've had those experiences, they've now built up the case file to almost like defend where they're stuck.
Yeah.
Yeah. So being able to recognize, learned helplessness, meet it where it is, flip it around somehow, or, or create like. Crack in that belief structure. That's where I think hope is. There's an opportunity there to go. Yeah.
It's, yeah,
yeah. We, we can do something different. Are you, are you willing? You know, and I think one of the best ways to do that actually, I've found, is just being, getting people just a bit curious and, you know Yeah. A bit playful about it. Look, you're willing to try something different.
Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's too easy to get bogged down in the semantics of the word hope. Whereas what we are really looking to do is kind of just nudge people in the right direction of solutions. Trying something else. Yeah. Being open to play. Being open to, to exploring regardless of what you've done before.
Love play. Because I, I usually say, okay, so let's have an experiment. Let's see what happens.
Yeah.
And then I start to play with the submodalities and I get them changing a few things round so they begin to realize, well, hang on a minute. No, that is different. That feels different. That looks different.
Yeah. And, and also I, I think one of the things to remember, especially if those of you maybe new, new to therapy and new to coaching and, and you will encounter this, you will meet someone who goes, I've seen everyone. I've tried everything else. And if you must have had this Tina where someone's turned up with a case file of all the Yeah, yeah. Of all the people they've seen and all the things that have never worked. Yeah.
Yeah.
You've got to get a little bit of compliance. You've gotta get rapport with 'em really quickly. But you know, I totally understand. You tried everything. We're gonna do something a bit different. You're up for that. And just kind of getting that little bit of shift that's so important. 'cause you dunno where it's gonna go. But I can, I can show anyone watching this, this, it doesn't matter who they've seen, what they've done.
Even if you do the same thing as someone else has done, you're gonna be doing it your own way. You know, your swish pattern will be a different swish pattern than somebody else's. Yeah. So
somebody turned up and they said, I, I've done CBT, I've been psychotherapy, I've had counseling, I've had X amount of hypnotherapist. I've been to all these different neers, uh, I've been to coaches, blah blah, everything. Nothing works. And I don't want you to do that fast phobia cure on me because it's rubbish and it doesn't work. What did I do with them? F Phia Cure.
I wonder. Yeah.
And they said that was brilliant. What was that? What
was it? I went,
yeah,
absolutely.
You don't really need to know that.
It was the really fast phobia cure.
You don't need to know that. It's fine. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. I think the conversation about the semantics around the word hope is, um, is, is, you know, not necessary. Yeah. It's just giving people a bit of a nudge some direction. Yeah. Away from anything. Away from learned helplessness and learn helplessness is very common, isn't it? I mean, I dunno how many people. I've said this so many times on these, on these Yahoo Ahas, Facebook ahas, that, um, I don't see many people for therapy anymore.
Um, but certainly when I did, probably about 20% of people came in, in a place of been there, done that, tried everything, almost like a challenge, you know, they, they're coming to defend.
Yeah.
Their learned helplessness. You know, dealing with that is an essential skill.
Somebody came to see me three weeks ago. Um, I just got back from the states and she had an issue with drinking. She said she, she has two or three, uh, gin dry martinis before dinner, and then her and her husband drink a bottle or two of wine over dinner every night, and she can't not have a drink. Do I think she's an alcoholic? Um, and we had a conversation. She cried when I said that it's possible that she is. I'm not a mind reader, so I don't know, without more information.
Um, and at the end of it, she was saying to me before we did the trance, she said, I'm really scared that I'm not gonna be able to stop drinking. She bounced in here today for her follow-up session. I haven't had a drink since I've seen you and I don't want one. So we started off with her afraid that she was gonna lose everything that, you know, her husband was gonna boot her out 'cause he was fed up with her getting drunk and mm-hmm. Making the fall of herself. And she was so scared.
And today she's just bouncing and so happy. And she started off with that, learned helplessness
and I
gave her something else.
¶ Provocative Hope Reframe
Yeah, there's also another approach, but you gotta be careful with this, which is to take it the other direction. Like with the learn helplessness, it is a little bit, push them further into it so you get the resistance back. Yeah, like give up hope. I tell you what, just give up hope. Stay as you are for the rest of your life, if that's what you wanna do, or. Let's experiment, let's play.
Hmm.
So you, you've gotta know guys how, how to push them into it and then when to bring them and go, okay, here we go. In the other direction. Yeah. That's, that can be very effective.
You could
be
provocative and say
maybe. Yeah, that's, that's what I was thinking. If
maybe, you know,
you
just don't deserve hope.
Yeah. Do you know the story of Hope in Pandora's Box? I think, I can't remember how this works. Uh, Stephen Fry in his, in his book Mythos, I was talking about it, but I think Hope was put in there by Zeus to, to, um. Tempt humans.
Yeah.
Yeah. It was to make us feel bad. 'cause if hope wasn't there, we'd be despairing. Right. So, so hope isn't a good thing, right? Yeah. Is to make humans suffer. Yeah. So sometimes take hope away. Go. Absolutely. Yeah. Do you know what? You could be a hopeless case. Why don't you just stay like this on wallo like this for the rest of your life. Yeah. However, I'm suspecting that as you contacted me, you kind of really don't wanna do that.
Yeah.
Yeah. So why don't, why don't we just explore you up for exploring, trying something different? You know, if you're up for doing that, then come along. Let's, let's play. Yeah,
definitely.
It was a good post and uh, you know, it was good discussion. Came with that.
Yeah. We, we managed to get lots of people involved. Yeah. Yeah.
¶ Stage Fright Anchors DTI
Uh, so here we are. We've got practicing your practice entertainment. Uh, I loved hearing about Tina supporting a whole rock band. And deep trance identification is clearly a great strategy. I noticed Tina's attention to detail and her suggestion to keep practicing for prior practicing prior to the performance. My recall is a suggestion to practice for three weeks and wonder if that means in and out of trance. Uhhuh.
Well, I had some, I had anchors set up everybody I worked for a, um, somebody turned up at my office and it happens to be a performer from a rock band. And they were going back on stage for the first time since COVID had hit and they were freaking out with stage fright. Um, and I just took them through their, their normal strategy of what they did before they went on stage. And they had a couple of things that used to work. Um, people do weird things before they're about to perform.
They had like a pair of shoes that they always wore and a pair of socks that they always wore. They did wash them in between. I did ask 'cause some people don't even wash. Um, and, and, and I just created an extra anchor so that as they were putting their shoes on, they were like becoming this supreme performer. And I put lots of anchors in there. Um, and I also discussed with them, um, he, he happened to say that they got into their music because of Elvis. This was an old book band guys.
They got into their music 'cause of Elvis and, and I remembered Elvis's strategy where he always had his dressing room. So many steps before the stage. So I also created an anchor so that as they opened the door to go into the theater or wherever they were gonna be performing, as they were getting closer and closer and closer to the stage, they were becoming this super performer. So as they hit the stage, um, they just were there. Now I did tell them to practice.
Um, I did, but actually I'd already installed it inside their head that that's what they were going to do. Um, if I was working with, uh, a so an up and coming rock band, somebody that didn't have a lot of experience, then I would have them physically practicing and running it through in their mind. But for this particular guy. I'd already installed it. But I do think practice is important if you don't have enough experience and memories that you can access.
He had years and decades of memories of performing. Um, you got anything you wanna add to that, my darling?
No, I think it was lovely. I think it was great. And you're so right. If you, if you've got somebody who has access to times when they've performed, the deep chance identification is just with themselves when they were at their best. Yeah. And that's, that's by the way, that's, that's easy, easy work, isn't it? It's nice work where you can get it. That's really good. Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's always quite interesting. There's, um. It's like with most things, isn't it? A lot of people have the solutions. What's stopping them is what they're doing rather than the solution. It's getting 'em to stop doing what doesn't work. I, I worked with a, I won't mention her name, but it was a, it was a tour. It's called The Three Divas, and she's one of the three divas, and she wasn't Chucker Khan or Anastasia, right?
Yeah.
And she kind of lost her voice and lost her mojo. So I, I met her, I went to her house and it was so easy. I said, you know, you know when you, uh, first getting going and you were with the B tour and blah, blah, this is how you know, she's been around for like five decades, decades later. And that song you sing. You know, what was that like just to be that young girl? And she went, ah, it's so free. I said, just, just putting herself back there. And then she just started singing over again.
Goosebumps. Now we're sitting in her kitchen listening to her sing, and, and there was like, job done. You know, it's like the easiest work you could possibly, possibly get when you got someone who's got access to all of those memories and those experiences. It, like you say, you just re-access it and the the anchors are set. Yeah.
Reaccess it. Boost up the anchor and then he was off. Now the next part of this question is with DTI, deep trials identification. What do you do if your client doesn't have a role model that they aspire to and get them to create how they want to be? So they get to create, what's it gonna be like when they're. Performing the way they want to perform.
Mm-hmm. But actually I think it's a strange question. I've never met anyone that's not had a role model, you know, whether it's an actor,
no.
Um, a musician, you know, there was one guy who came to me, kept calling it a trumpet, got really annoyed with me 'cause it wasn't a trumpet and he was playing at the Robert Albert Hole. And I said, so who, who is your role model? He's like, get Dizzy Gillespie. He couldn't play this bit. So I got him to deep chance to identify with Dizzy Gillespie who was in my room and he went, oh my God, I got it. I got it. I've gotta go. I've gotta go. I gotta got got.
So I've never met anyone that hasn't got a role model of some sort.
I've never met a performer that doesn't have a role model. Mm-hmm. Um, if I've been using DTI with clients with something else, um, then occasionally they said, and I've said, who has the resources that you want? Occasionally they've said they don't know. So then we've created an avatar, which is basically them with the resources that they need. And then I have them float into the future, grab the resources. But that's more of a timeline thing than a DTI, to be fair.
Hmm. Yeah, no, so, so it's a, it's a question someone's posed. I get it. Um, but it's never a situation I've encountered.
Yeah.
People have always got some reference that they can go. If I could even be a shadow of that, I, I'll be great. Thank you. You know, I wanna borrow from that. Yeah.
¶ Actors Anxiety Role Switching
And then we've got one last part. I've heard via an actor that 50% of actors have stage fright. Uh, I'd love to hear your experience of working with actors, especially where we can help them. Uh, with, that isn't taught at stage school. I don't know what's taught at stage school, to be fair. And I love working with actors because they're really good at taking on a part.
Hmm.
So we basically create a character, but they become, that gets added to whatever they're going to be doing on the stage. I think that's the simplest way I can explain that. So we create, again, it's a bit like the, the avatar. So they're used to having this particular part. So we then create the actor part of them that doesn't have stage fright, and then they can step into that. Much like my musician stepped into himself before he went on stage when he was performing brilliantly.
We have them step into that. Character they've created of them being an amazing actor. And then from there they step into the character that they're portraying on the stage in the movie.
Yeah. I mean, I dunno if it's 50%, but I know that many, many that um, do experience in real nerves and anxiety and most of them take that as part of, you know, the price they pay for getting on, on stage.
They don't,
they, you know, there's some, so many famous people, I think it was John Ood who used to throw up before he goes on, used to go on stage, but then once they're on stage it's all gone. So it's like they go, well it's the bit I have to go through in order to get there. Yeah. So there's something that doesn't need fixing, in fixing for most people. 'cause they'll still go there and they'll still do their craft.
Yeah, they do.
They
before.
But they've, sorry, go on.
I was gonna say, I've had, bizarrely, I've had, uh, film actors who are going to be performing on stage live freaking out. Yeah. By their own performing in a film, but suddenly they can't do retakes 'cause they're on stage.
Yeah.
That's very common. And I also had a stage actor who was going to be in a television series who was freaking out. Um, but in their, in their environment of being on stage, they were okay. And then it's just a matter of altering the strategy for them.
Yeah. And it's like most things, isn't it? You find out the strategy that's not working and muck it up and then find out the strategy that was working and map it across to the new context. I, I got a phone call from someone. It was Christmas Eve and uh, I dunno, it got, oh no, Paul gave, I'm kinda gave him out my mobile. Okay. So it was, uh, Christmas Eve afternoon, it was, hi Steve, you know. Hello dear you. Hello vie conversation. I need you to help me. I need you to help me.
I went, who the hell are you? So me who he was. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Um. Boxing Day, afternoon, I'm on stage and I'm terrified. I keep losing my words. I need to see. I said, well, it's Christmas Eve. I'm not seeing you Christmas day. So I, all right. So I arranged to see him Boxing Day morning.
Yeah.
And um, all that had happened is like three weeks before he'd gone out, he'd had little tipple, he said, came in, he'd never fluffed his lines before, but he fluffed his lines. Yeah. You know what it something to do with the drink? I don't know. Do you normally drink? I said, no. Um, but then he'd anchored fluff in his lines to going on stage. Yeah.
Yeah. He
was very quick. He was a very fast learner. And I said, do you so, so what's the problem? He said, well, what if I forget my lions? I said, okay, look, you know, you're a Shakespearean actor, and you, he'd been around, another one had been around for like 40 odd years. I said, what was one of the first plays you did in Hamlet? And I said. Quote me a piece. And again, it's not one of those goosebump moments, you know? World famous ads. So two B on auto be or whatever. That's Macbeth, isn't it?
Yeah. Yeah. Ala for when? When did, well, when did you learn those lines? 40 years ago. And you can still remember for 40 years. And you're worrying about, remember saying it was still fresh. Oh yeah. So I just got him to step into himself and being able to perform and just be, you know, be very present. That was, it was off. Yeah. You know, it's so some of them, it is so simple work with actors. 'cause like you say, they, they can step into the role.
Yeah. I had a really interesting one, which was, is a bit of a twist on it. Again. Fa famous actress, she was playing one of, she was playing the mother in Blood Brothers. I dunno if you've seen the play. There's, there's a, there's a bit at the end, spoiler alert, in case you kinda go where it's really emotional. I think I had two sons die. I think the brothers die. I can't remember the, I went to see it once, but it was very emotional, but I can't remember what happened there.
Um, but she was playing this role and the role involved her to be in despair of the loss of her children or her child. Yeah.
Yeah.
And she played it so well that she was living her life in despair. So it was about teaching her to come out of it and clean it all up. Yeah. And not lose the emotion that was in the role that she was stepping in. So that was, that was an unusual one. It's very, you know, very different one, um, know entertainers are very entertaining to work with for sure.
Yes,
sure.
Yes.
And always get them to perform because you get a, you get a one-off opportunity.
You do, you do. I got tickets to a concert. I'm have, I'm very happy.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Ditto. Yeah.
¶ Getting More Client Inquiries
Yeah. Um, so next is for you growing your practice, persuasion, selling collaborative conversations. Mm-hmm. So this is what you did this month for the membership group, and this is so, wow. I loved hearing Steve's persuasion presentation this month. It really got me thinking about how to get the calls in the first place. I get most of my clients via referrals and occasional inquiries via Google and my website. I'd love to hear your ideas for getting more inquiries.
Well watch the grow in your practice next month, because that's the theme. I know that's a cop out answer, but Yeah. No, I think
it's great.
Yeah, good question to like give it two minutes to, um, the thing is, the thing is about, look, if you, if you get most of your work by referrals, um, how many ways do you get referrals would be my first question. You know, what, how many different ways do you have in place to get referrals? And if you talk to most people, I mean, may be one or two ways. If, if you're lucky. Yeah. Why don't you find 10 different ways to ask for referrals? Yeah. And explore that.
Yeah. And, and make it very clear. You build your business based upon referrals. And if you have had an amazing experience, I'd really appreciate you letting other people know, and I'll give them the same service that you've experienced and just being so upfront about that. Yeah. A lot of people don't even do that. Yeah, they don't even ask for the referral. Um, as to Google. That's a completely different conversation, you know, there's no way I can give a quick answer with that.
You've gotta be able to, you do have to be able to identify the, the people you want, understand what they're searching for. 'cause one of the benefits of Google, by the way, if you are doing, whether it's doing Google ads or whether it's doing Google searches, they're looking for you.
Yeah. So they're already keen buyers, but you do have to do a lot of research to understand who the people are, what they're looking for, so that whatever campaigns you're putting together and your ads and the keywords you use are relevant to the searches that people are after. So, you know, I can't give quick answers to those, but, um, I'm glad you found it. Wow. Um, because.
¶ Selling Without Fear
Selling is an area where so many people shy away from in the, in, certainly in the coaching and the caring and sharing business. Yeah.
Yeah.
They're fearful of asking for the orders, fearful of being rejected, fearful of asking for the right prices.
¶ Collaborative Conversation Framework
Um, and I took people through, for those of you that, um, aren't in the Secret Agents Change membership group, I took them through, it's called the Collaborative Conversation. So there are four different stages and 20 steps, different steps that if you get them right, 99% of people are gonna be I'm in if they're the right fit for you, by the way. If they're the right fit.
Yeah. So you closing rate, although it's not closing, you're not closing the sale, you're opening a relationship is gonna be borderline a hundred percent when you follow this particular process. So, and, and by the way, those of you that in the membership group that haven't watched it yet, um, I've only done one of the four stages. And because it will be. Two years before we come round? Uh, no. Will it be, yeah, so it'll be six months before, before we come back round to persuasion.
Another six months. So I'm not gonna have you wait in two years before I finish off the loop. Alright, so I'm gonna be putting together a couple of extra additional recordings so we can finish off this section on persuasion and influence. Um, so yes, you'll have the whole package soon, but not in your two years time. I like to build up expectation, but not that much.
Yeah, not that much. Yeah. Yeah. I
thought that was
funny when, when you did, when you were doing the whole presentation and you said it's gonna take two years, but I'll do something sooner,
so, but don't hold me to when they'll fit it in. Yeah,
you might have to wait a year, but it'll be there.
Yeah. So, so whoever asked the question, what's, what's the, um, what's the recording next month, the second Thursday of May. Um, and I'll be actually, I'll, I'll go with referrals. We'll be talking about referrals. How about that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That'll be very useful
¶ Decision Maker Commitment Question
too. So here's another question for you about your, uh, presentation. Was it that evening? Uh, Steve's selling training and the question about the one thing that we will do to increase sales conversations this month?
Yeah.
I'm now going to use Steve's key question. Are you in a position to commit today and get the decision maker on the call sooner rather than later? It amazes me how many people fail to do that.
Yeah, totally. And you shouldn't be getting 'em on the call later at all. That shouldn't even happen.
Yeah, it
should not happen at all.
Uh, have having future pace how this may change the dynamics of the interview, I'd love to hear your strategy for keeping everyone on board and inoculating against any objections. Thank you.
Yeah.
¶ Handling Objections Through Process
Well, you won't need to inoculate against any objections when you follow the process. I'm taking you through. Okay. The, the only reason you'll get objections at the end of a call or some point during a conversation is when you haven't addressed any of the issues. When you follow the process that I'm taking you through.
If there is an issue, you'll find out about it earlier on and you'll be able to deal with that and you follow process ex the example being, you know, oh, I need to go away and talk to so and so about this, you know, the, I need to speak to somebody else just to get their approval. Well, that's talking to the decision maker. The person you're talking to isn't the decision maker, the decision decision maker, the person they're gonna go and talk to.
If that becomes an objection at the end of the call, you've missed it. You didn't address it earlier on. Yeah. So all the things that people talk about as objections, you know, time, um, cost. Um, checking other people, those things will be addressed by following the process. Yeah, and there's something else as well. I mean, a lot of salespeople, I think the statistics are most people give up after two objections from somebody.
Yeah. And if you guys have been practicing your slide of mouth patterns over time, you'll know how easy it's to have someone have an objection and play with it and flip it around and turn it back and do a reframe. And you'll be able to deal with 20 different objections at least, and keep going and keep going and keep going. Um, but I want you to be able to take the order without having to deal with the objections by taking people through a, a process.
Okay. So, um, yeah, whoever asked that, um, question, uh. When I do the other three videos, because I think it's gonna be three, but the reason it's gonna be three, it will be four in total, is because that whole subject alone is normally a five day training.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. So we're talking about 30, 30 plus hours of training. Yeah. So I'm trying to condense that into four recordings for you. Yeah,
yeah.
Yeah. So we'll keep it super tight and what I'm doing is pointing things out and saying, go away and practice this. Go away and practice this bit. Yeah. Um, so I hope that makes sense to ever ask that. Follow the process. You won't be having the objections.
Perfect.
¶ Kids Food Issues Train Parents
Uh, so I've got another one here that, so this week I got a call from a mom who wondered if hypnosis would help her son to eat a more varied diet. Oh, I love these. Mom says
ketchup does it,
that the dietician says there can be a fear. Having worked with another child who wanted to eat a range of foods, I'm aware that you can address the fear, for example, swallowing and get them tasting new foods in the sessions. But there can be more issues to address to get sustainable. Change any ideas. Train the parents.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love it when I get phone calls from, from parents and they say, oh, I, I wonder if you can help me. I've got this 5-year-old and they'll only eat fish fingers and chips and they won't eat anything else. And my brain goes. That's an amazing 5-year-old. They go shopping and they can cook. You have to parent your children, and part of that is teaching them about food and exploring different foods with them even when they're difficult and they don't want to eat them.
Yeah. So I don't, I don't work with young children anymore, but when I used to, I used to have the parents come, so I would work with the child. If a fear had developed nine times outta 10, there is no fear there. Child has figured out it's a great excuse not to eat what they don't wanna eat, but when I've sorted that bin out, then you need to train the parents.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That was it. John Deval says that the, the problem is normally a parent.
Yes.
Yeah, a parent. I, I was in my, it was on my patio once, it was a lovely summer's day and I was painting. My ex came out and said, would you like an ice cream? Oh yeah, that'd be nice. Yeah. And the kids were there. They were all painting as well. Right. So they were only youngsters at the time. They like 10 downwards. Yeah. I said, would you like an ice cream? And I can't remember who said, can we have some vegetables? I went, what? What? It's a hot summer's day. You eat like a lolly.
Like can we have some vegetables? But what they meant was Cru tea, you know, like carrot sticks and whatever. Because what we used to do is put a big bowl of this out so they're hungry, you know, put a big bowl of it before we start preparing food.
Yeah.
And if you want anything and you're hungry, go and help yourself. So by the time the food was served up. All the vegetables were gone. Yeah. Because they were hungry. And even, even if they didn't finish their meal, it's fine. I'm not gonna force 'em 'cause they're full up on vegetables of course. But it was a hot summer's day and they wanted fresh cold carrot sticks and, you know, so yeah. I think a lot of it is, as you say, Tina, absolutely.
It's like teaching the parents and, and not putting pressure around, you know, food. The amount of youngsters I used to work with when I was doing therapy where, you know, there's so much anxiety anchored to the eating process. There's something else as well about the swallow. They, they were talking about that swallowing is very much an unconscious process.
You know, if you try to consciously swallow, there's about something like 20 muscles that are involved and, and a lot of swallowing issues come about because of the stress that's related to sitting down and, you know, eating.
If they're not, if they're not enjoying what they're eating, they're not gonna want to swallow. All about eating's, all about pleasure, isn't it? You know, you've got the, the texture, the taste.
Yeah.
And then you've got the juices, you know your mouth, waters, and then you swallow it. It's a whole, it's a whole process. But I, yeah, I, I train the, the parents.
Yeah. I tell you what it is. It's a, it also reminds me of, it's like Cesar Milano, you know, the dog whisperer? Yeah,
yeah,
yeah. It's, he never trains the dogs. He trains the dog owners, doesn't he? And the dogs didnt fall in line. I go, okay,
yeah,
thank you. We've trained the owner. Now I'll behave. Normally
dog's not the problem.
Yeah.
It's, it's, yeah. It's the person. And, and the dog knows it can get away with, with all sorts of mischief. So why would it behave? Hmm. Uh, okay. Oh look, let's do this one.
¶ Hoarding Cases Avoid Home Visits
So, um, I've just had an inquiry Oh. From a lady regarding her partner's hoarding, uh, her
partner's hoarding.
Hoarding,
right.
Hoarding.
Mm-hmm.
After various family members passed, they've cleared the contents of the houses and stored them in their own bungalow. He now wants to sort items and get rid of them, but gets anxious and decides to keep things just in case, in her words, it's got out of hand. So, uh, I don't normally do home visits with adult clients, but in this case I'm thinking it may be useful. Yeah. Um, thoughts, but my thought is on that is no. Um, because they're in their home territory.
And then hoarders are very controlling. So take them out of their normal environment and put them somewhere else first. You may want to be in the house with them at some point. I had a lovely hoarder years and years ago, um, turned up at my office when I opened the door. I thought it was a tramp standing there. This person was disgusting and they stak it turns out it was my client and, and they had cash wards and wa of cash in their hand
was sticky notes. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so they came in. I even put like, I put like a BIM bag down on the chair before they sat down. They were dirty and smelling. They kept everything. Now they did flush toilet the paper away, but they did keep dirty tissues. They couldn't use their bathroom or the bath or the shower because it was full of empty pizza boxes 'cause they might be valuable. Um, yeah. So I had to teach them a different strategy, how to identify what was valuable and what wasn't.
Now they could flush toilet paper away. So I took that as my starting point. How did they, they identify that toilet paper could be flushed down the toilet and they could let go of that easy and simply, and then I could then transfer that from to other things. So I guess with this hoarder, you'd need to find the counter example. Is it only things from dead relatives that he wants to keep hold of? Are there other things that he is able to get rid of?
I'd probably be looking for the counter example first.
Mm. Yeah. Um, I would not necessarily be going and doing a home visit for the reasons you've just explained because I've done that a few times with folders and wished I wasn't there. Um, there's always jars of things you wish you, you'd never seen. You have to practice to white out and delete them from your imagination. Yes. From your memory.
Um, and like you say, quite often it can be really unpleasant if any of you've seen those pictures of those, those ladies that go round and clear up ho houses. I dunno how they do it.
No.
Um. And they can be very like, cleaner. They're very defensive. And so everything's anchored to the place where they, they are, get them out of the environment and then really find out what the underlying strategy is behind it. Because it can be so many things, can't it? You know? It, it could be, you know, making all sorts of stuff up here. It could be, you know, attachment to the articles rather than the person.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. You know, a loss of control. You, you've really gotta just sit with that person and find out what is going on with their strategy. That means they have to hold onto these things and then find out what the, uh, what the alternative is. Yeah. Every behavior serves a purpose, doesn't it?
It does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my, my, my smelly man was, I mean, he managed to clear out his, his his house. He got clean, he got rid of all this stuff. He got cleaners in and he sorted himself out. Uh, I mean, he was independently wealthy, so luckily he didn't have to worry about money or going to work. Uh, his whole thing was.
He went away and he had loads of collections of things that he'd collected since he was a, a, a young child and his mom came and house, sat for him and got rid of all of his stuff because she said it was just collecting dust. And then something switched in his head and from that point onwards, he kept everything.
Yeah. Then it's go after something could be like that is, is like an anchor to loss. So the thought of loss creates anxiety and then it generalizes to everything. Yeah, it could be a, a collection, it could be a loved one, and then it becomes a pizza box.
Yeah.
Yeah. I know it sounds bizarre, but that's how creative the, uh, the mind is in terms of taking a, a learned pattern and generalizing it to other things. Um, you know, stay away from the houses sometimes.
No, open the houses. Yeah. Definitely not.
¶ Workplace Wellbeing Pitching ROI
Okay. I've got one for you now, miss Mr. Crab, I've heard all businesses in the UK are now responsible for ensuring wellbeing opportunities for their staff. I know you've looked into this. How do you get referrals into the business world and what makes a good pitch?
Okay, so that's an interesting one. Okay, so let me go back. Five, six years ago I ran a wellbeing book. Company for three years and did a whole series of trainings. We did about eight a year. Um, it was quite tough going, getting in, getting the foot in the door because, um, I've had many a glass of not many, a couple of white glass, of lukewarm white wine at a networking event talking to people about wellbeing and stress.
Mm. And experiencing what I call the three stress monkeys, which is they don't wanna see the stress, they don't want to hear it, and they don't wanna talk about it. Yeah. So a lot of business owners, it's what's the problem? Yeah, yeah. Even now it's what's the big deal? What's the problem? The amount of, there was one lawyer I was talking to said I don't really get it because, you know, I thrive on stress.
Yeah. And that can be the, the, the approach, even though, you know, mental health is, is a more talked about conversation now than it was five, six years, even five, six years ago. Yeah. So back then it was still quite challenging. And by the way, I've been in that conversation since 2003 when the health and safety executive in the UK bought out the new guidelines for, uh, stress management in the workplace.
Yeah. They bought out a series of guidelines that in from 2003 every company was meant to adhere to. And if you look at the statistics of stress with these guidelines, nothing's changed. Okay. Which is fascinating because it doesn't address the psychology of stress. It just address the processes of stress. Right. So you've got this conversation that's been going on since 2003.
You are up against business owners who are resistant because they don't see it, don't want to hear it, don't wanna talk about it. You've also got business owners who are, 'cause actually, somebody asked me this question on one of, on one of the workshops. Yeah. And I said, well, it's really, we've got a group of people, we've got 30 people here, all business owners. Why don't we ask them, why did you invest your time to come here?
And what would encourage you to invest in actually continuing the program with your, with your staff? The answer was, I've gotta see a return on my investment. Yeah, yeah. Sense. So, so you've got to be able to demonstrate to someone that whatever you're doing, there is a return on investment. Okay. If you want a foot in the door, the 'cause, the decisions are gonna be made not just by the, the CEO, but by the The accountants. The CFOs. Yeah. Probably not even the hr.
And, and by the way, a lot of people are talking to the wrong people. You know, you're talking to the HR people have to then go to the accounts people to justify spending money on it. So you must be able to make sure that you can demonstrate a return on investment by somebody engaging in your program. And if you can't do that, find a way to do that.
Yeah. Which means you've gotta maybe run a few groups and measure things and see if there's a way to quantify, you know, the number of days that people are not off ill, not off sick. Yeah. Now there's also one other thing which you're gonna encounter now. So I know I'm giving you lots of resistance, but if you are seriously interested in going into this space, you, you're gonna, uh, you're gonna have to find all the, you're gonna find all these resistance, these, uh, these walls.
And you're gonna have to work your way, push your way through them. Yeah. Be very resilient. The, the other one that you're gonna face now is that ever since, and certainly in the uk, the first aiders and champions courses came out. Now every company has a first aider and a champion, or a first aid or a champion who has done a course but can't do anything. Right. But companies have now invested in them, so they're not particularly really interested in somebody from the outside coming in
Yeah.
To deal with something they've already addressed. They've ticked the boxes.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's a, it's a minefield to be honest. I mean, it's a, it's a great place to go and work. You, you, you are always gonna find some companies that go, yes, we've got our first aiders, we've got our champions, but they're not really the right people to actually work with people. We want someone to come in. You know, I've still got clients that do that.
Yeah. But they're the ones that, from a long time ago, even with their first days, and champions still call up and we, you know, do occasional half day, you know, on wellbeing. So it's a tough nut to crack, by the way. Yeah. Although it's a big conversation, it's a tough nut to crack because you're competing against that resistance and you're competing against, well, they found a solution, which isn't really a solution. Yeah.
So on paper, they fulfilled the criteria that the government wants 'em to fulfill.
Yeah.
But not actually solving the problem because it remains the same.
Yeah. In fact there's a, there's a new layer of problems. So whoever's asking this question, you might wanna go here, you might wanna explore this, right? So I can't tell you that this is a place where there's lucrative business and you can really help. But I suspect there is, because it was in 2018, um, it was in National Stress Day and I was doing a talk over in, uh, where was it, Essex? 'cause we had all, you know, the p and o people that just laid hundreds of people off.
Yeah. Yeah. So I had the HR director of p and o was in this group. So I was the guest speaker car. And um, I only had like 30 minutes, but I really tore into them all. Literally. It was like, how many of you are just ticking boxes, blah. So, you know, I had to be pretty, pretty provocative. Um, and. They were receptive to by being provocative, like, you're ticking boxes, you cannot, your people can't help people.
Mm-hmm.
And then it came to the panel and some, one of the, the p and o directors said, we've got a new problem. I'd like the panel to address this. You know, see if they can address this. Our first aiders and our champions are all really stressed. What's going on? So the whole panel turned to me like they threw the hot potato at me. I said, this is the conversation I'm, I'm, I want to have. Yeah. Yeah. They've done three days and five days. They are not trained in therapy.
They're not trained to, to work with people who are really stressed. So what they do is when they're feeling, um, disillusioned and disappointed, feeling hopeless like a lot of psychotherapists used to do when they couldn't help anyone. Yeah. Um, but also they're. What they're doing is they're creating this, they're almost like a stigma associated with stress. Like, well, we'll send you onto someone 'cause there's a mental health issue. Right.
So they're diagnosing people with mental health issues when they're not. Yeah. So I said, we've got these. It's like a real guardian, not a problem. Starting to come out of all of this. Yeah. Um, so you might want to consider supporting the first aiders and the champions. Yeah. Putting something together to actually support them and helping them because they've made the inroads, they made the stop. It's like they've done a little foundation course.
'cause we, you know, if you've ever looked into it and if you're watching this, you know, there's, you know, it doesn't go particularly deep. Neither of those two go particularly deep. Um. With your NLP, you could work with the, with the first aiders and the champions to help them or even provide a backup service, you know, so that they're sending them the people they can't help to you. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a fascinating area.
There's a, there's a, there's a real need for it, but getting in there, it's a, it's a tricky one.
It is. I mean, I, before I started to do this, I was a, uh, training and development in, um, in an investment bank in the city. Um, and anybody that rung up that wanted to offer any kind of assistance with stress kind of employee related issues were bounced around the office. You know, nobody really wanted to talk to them. Um, nobody was gonna give them, uh, a response. They couldn't find out who to talk to.
And we had a whole health and safety department, and that's who they should have been speaking to. Um, Steve's disappeared. He'll be back momentarily. Um, so I've got another question here.
¶ Choosing What To Treat First
Uh, so how do you decide what to work on first? If a client initially presents with one issue, then under covers or something else comes up or maybe you get a list? Uh, now I found out right from my very beginning of working with people, I quite often get a list.
People quite often turn up, they'll book because they'll say they want help with confidence and then they'll suddenly turn up and say, um, well, I'm not really very confident because I've got an alcohol problem, or I've got a cocaine problem, or I've got this problem or that problem, or I'm micropho or I've got a phobia. And then you can get something else come up. And then you could get, they'll come up with a frigging list.
I've even had them get a book out of their bag and go, so really what I've come to talk to you about today is, and I'm sure Steve's as well.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah. And they've got this whole list of things. Um, so at that point, I explained that the session is X long and what would they like to work on? And sometimes we might spend the first 15, 20 minutes coming up with a hierarchy as to what's the most important thing. Now if you can get, usually when there's a list, there's one that's holding all the others up. If you can get that one, everything falls down. And then you are a superstar. So it's a matter of exploring the list with them.
Calibrating their responses and getting them to come up with what it all means, what it does for them, and then choosing what they want to deal with there. And then some of them are interchangeable anyway, and it's really simple to deal with two or three things.
If, if they're worried about their weight because they've got food issues that that could make them less confident, that could give them, uh, the agoraphobia where they don't wanna leave their house 'cause they don't like the way they look. So some of them could be in interconnected. So it's a matter of listening, paying attention to how they talk about their problems and getting a kind of a hierarchy and seeing where you start.
Yeah. Okay. And I'm back. I was choking. Sorry.
That's okay.
Yeah. It's, again, it's a bit like the learned helplessness. It happens quite regularly, doesn't it? You know, there's never just one issue. There's, there's a whole guardian knot of issues. So, um, I think one of the things is to not be caught out by it, if you can, which is why, um, I have a consent form and the consent form, the intake form. Are there any other issues you feel may be associated to why you're coming to see me for? Yeah, so it gives 'em a chance to put it down.
You go, okay, well there's a long, you know, we, we've now got this long shopping list of things. Yeah. But Latina said you'll start to see that there's connections. You know, it could be, I'm anxious, so because I'm anxious, it leads to, you know, this is a problem and that's a problem and that's a problem. So if you deal with the anxiety, then the rest of it collapses. Um. But you know, I, I totally agree with everything you said there, Tina.
That's what, what I do and, and sometimes it's also good to look for a quick win for someone.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. If they've got a long list, I mean, I've got the intake form, so Steve and I both work in a similar way so that you fill out a form and then I get to see the form before I've even confirmed the appointment. I know what's on the form and sometimes when they turn up, what they ask for isn't even on the bloody form.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
And then that's another conversation completely.
So, so we're gonna coach around decision making.
Yeah.
And the good, well the good news is I do have your credit card details. Yeah. But do, do, I do make sure that, you know, whatever programs you run it, it is very clear that, you know, they're there to address this particular thing. It may end if I wanna address several things. That's why you've got extra session times.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Your session time so that it's very clear you're not gonna cover everything.
No, you don't have to do it all in that session, remember?
No, no, no.
I, I remember years and years ago, um, Michael Breen asked me once, um, 'cause it at the very beginning in the UK it was McKenna Breen. So it was Paul McKenna, Michael Breen and, and Richard Bandler on the courses. Michael said to me one day, um, so you are seeing people, aren't you? And I went, yeah. And he said, how's it going? And I said, oh. I said, I think I'm doing okay. I can sort most things out in a couple of sessions now.
Um, and he laughed and he said, you are looking at what Richard does on the stage and you are thinking you've gotta sort it out in X amount of time. Um, and he said, you have to remember that when Richard's seeing clients privately, he might only see them once, but that might be a four or five hour session 'cause he'll just keep going. Um, so yeah, it is a matter of just working on what's the most important at that point in time. And if there's a huge list, as Steve said, go for the win.
Go for the quick win because that will then motivate them to keep going and then that then you've created, I'm gonna be really. I gonna say hope.
Yeah. Yeah. But I also do, I've had that before where there's been the shopping list and it's not necessarily clear where they want to go. So we talk about the concept of mind and, and behaviors. So, and some coping mechanisms and give them, like Tina says, a bit of hope, and we go, and now we've got a plan for working on this. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that's really fair and reasonable, you know, and Totally.
You know, a lot of people see demonstrations on stage and think everything has to be done in like a 25 minute, 45 minute demo. No, it doesn't, doesn't the real world doesn't work like that.
¶ Wrap Up Events And Goodbye
Yeah. So, Tina, I'm aware we're up on the hour. It's
on hour.
That's blown by.
Good. Yeah. Where does that go? We, and, and I've got more questions too. I'll roll them over to next time.
Yes. Yeah. So look, I dunno who's been on over, been check in, um. I've got a few people. Sue, Sue, Sue, Sue Jane. Um,
lots of people there. Yeah.
Yeah. Michael, so sorry if we haven't answered all of your questions, guys. Regina, lovely to see you guys. Um, we've got our check out the website, please. We've got our business alchemy coming up in, when does it take? July. July,
yes. The first.
July. July. July.
We're gonna, we're running a retreat at Chais well in Glastonbury. So we are gonna have lots of fun there. There's, we are gonna be doing lots of things energetically.
Yeah. Things that many of you that have trained with us won't have seen us do before.
Well, actually they've seen us do, but they haven't known. We are doing it.
Okay. And, uh, I, I know there's definitely one thing they won't have seen
Yeah.
Me do before.
Yeah.
Because the shield's always up.
Yeah.
Lots of, lots of magic. Yeah. Um, so if you guys can join us, can definitely be there. It's gonna be a really good, good one. Cool one. I mean, by the way, we've got our prac in three weeks time. Uh,
what
is it three or is it two? Two weeks, yeah. Three. Three weeks. Yeah. So if anyone's been sitting on the fence and, uh, has been considering coming to join us, we're at Regents College in London. Yeah. Grab your place. We good to see
you there. Youre park. Come and play with us. It's gonna be lots of fun.
Yeah. Yeah. So Tina, just let these people, good people, get on with their lives
and I'll see you later.
Yeah. Thanks for watching everyone.
Thanks for watching everybody. Live long and prosper.
Yeah. Live long and prosper. Be well.
Be well. Bye.