The Read Trial

It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Foston's Radio.

All right, as I think all of you know, the Karen Reid trial is now in the hands of the jury. So it's been a long slog, not only for Karen read in this trial, but also in her last trial. It's been a long slog. So the jury today got the case I guess around two forty and they were allowed to deliberate for till two thirty till four thirty, a little less than two hours. And you would not expect it in a case of this complexity and this challenge, such a challenging case, that they would have come up

You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z, Boston's news radio.

Last night we talked about the case a little bit. We started talking about the Karen Read case and then we we moved on to the the situation there was quickly developing in the Middle East. So tonight I decided to do the reverse because obviously people had an opportunity towards the end of the show last night to talk about the Middle East, and uh, they had an opportunity

Karen read jury will come back and look till late afternoon tomorrow with a not guilty verdict. That's making a fool out of till Tracy, you and Hank Bennan and believe me, I will call to rub it in tomorrow evening.

Well, if you're out there listening tonight and you'd like to call in and take a victory lap and rub it in. Oh the jury didn't come back with a verdict. Oh, I see. Well, I wonder if this caller, whose voice is a very distinctive voice, by the way, is going to have the backbone to call in and say, guess what I was wrong because he was wrong. Now I don't know, and I've said all along, I don't know how the case will come out because I haven't been in the courtroom every day. I'm prepared to do my

Thank you? I'm great.

Thank you.

First of all, Dan, I do like you and I do like your show, so I want to start with that.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Okay, So about Karen Reid, what I really want to say is, I don't think she's a murderer. I just don't believe that. You know, I agree with you.

I yeah, I agree with you. I don't think she Yeah, I don't think the case was made to a convictor on the second degree murder charge. I agree with you.

Go right ahead, right And you know, with the alcohol and everything, we don't really know what happened. I'm not sure i'd buy the widespread conspiracy. But based on her behavior, you know, I understand she was the next day, she was worried about whether.

She'd hit him.

She was not behaving like a murderer. Now, you know, maybe leaving the scene of an accident. But you take the fact they charged her with murder, and then you add on top of that some of the mistakes that were made of the trial and what was you know true for Procto, the things he said, looking through her phone, with the looking for the nude pictures. You take all that, put it all together, and I hope she gets a pass. I feel sorry for the family. I feel sorry for

You know, well, here's the prom my thought. Okay, no, no, those thoughts, and I agree with you. In order to prove murder, even murder in the second degree, you have to prove a level of intent that I just don't think is there. However, when when you have someone whose life has been cut short, and you have someone who and I don't know exactly how old mister O'Keeffe, officer O'Keefe was, but it looked to me like he was somewhere in his forties. He obviously had many years of life.

I don't, you know, I don't know. It's tough. I mean, I'm glad I'm not on that journey jury. I mean, I'm really glad, And I don't know. But I just think that if the government, I think I think it seems a little unfair that the government can charge her with murder and then sort of say, well, okay, she's not a murderer, but well then jumped down to you know, leaving the scene of an accident and manslaughter. I just feel it should be you know, either murder or not murder.

Well again, there's well, Gideon, Gideon, there's there's every case, the facts of the case to find what the charge might be. Now, is she overcharged? I would armor from the case I saw that she's overcharged when he come to murder. But can you get a man slain of conviction out of there? Voluntary or involuntary? I think that's possible, certainly on the involuntary leaving the scene of an accident. You know, again, that's tough because that's a state of

They say the same thing about democracy, right, all the others.

That's a good one.

That's a great time.

Geddy and I enjoyed the conversation. Thank you very much. Let me go to Matt in Florida. Matt has strong viewpoints always. Matt, welcome back, Dan.

What do you think happened? You've you've yet to give your theory. Well, or can you not because you know they could see you?

No, no, no, I can give a theory. I can give a theory.

I want to I want to hear it. I've been waiting for it for years.

Well, well, the more I look at it, I find it difficult to believe that he got into the house. And I know that there's all the evidence that people will hear that he get into the house and he got into a fight and either was intentionally killed or someone hit him with a lucky punch and he hit his head. But he's dead in the house. And then at some point someone said, well, what are we going

That's right, the eyes.

Yeah, that's the only conceivable theory that makes any sense to me. Although I can't prove that, right, you know, I don't know that the prosecution should prove that.

Yeah, right. And this is the thing. I was so into the conspiracy, and you know, I listened to Brennan, who I can't stand. I don't like him, but I mean his I thought his closing arguments were actually pretty good. And like, I just think Karen Reid got really really really really really times a thousand lucky in that there

But so let me ask you this. Okay, if you go back to the to the conspiracy, if he went into the house and there were words exchanged and a fight ensued, and I know that people are gonna call it in, tell me about the rug was taken out and the dog was put somewhere. All of that. I was hoping that the forensics on the automobile would be more dispositive of what might have happened. But let's assume hypothetically that it for no good reason, there's a fight

Right?

So what I think could have happened really was and what I believe was there was a fight, and you know, he walked out on his own volition and then passed out. You know, they yelled at him, they said, get the hell out of hair, you drunk, and he just was

I just can't snow the snowplow. Yeah, the snowplow driver doesn't give me much of a problem because I've been I covered enough snowstorms, uh, and have driven in enough snowstorms at night that if you're if you're in the middle of a snowstorm, and particularly I'm not a snowplow driver. And once the snow there's three or four inches of snow on the ground or two or three inches of snow on the ground, things have covered up, so that again I'd like to know more about the time of

That's fair. And I just, I just I have no faith in humanity, So I think, I think I don't. Every day I run into people and I just shake my head and go, what is what is wrong with this world? So I don't believe that you know, However, many people are on that jury. I cannot believe that every single one of them can have sat there rationally and listen to everything. I just don't. I just can't do it. But well, interesting, I'll tell you this, that's for sure.

If they do hook her for something, it's going to be the she never should have done those television interviews.

Well, and that's what makes me think, ultimately, I think she did it. You know, she's just like I said at the beginning of the phone call, my final answer, I think she did it. She just really lucked out in that there was just no hard evidence against her because I don't I haven't seen it yet. You know.

Well, again, it's it's one of those it's one of those cases, and maybe we'll never know the truth. I just think it was a huge mistake how her lawyers allowed her to do those phone calls, to do those interviews. I just think that it's.

Oh, can I ask you one last quick question as a lawyer, would you do you see do you think it's weird that no one in the house or the lady google in how long does it take to die in the snow? Do you find it bizarre that not one of them have done a TV interview or is that just kind of the right thing to do, just don't even get involved, to shut up and just let it take its course.

Why would anyone do a TV interview here? I mean, no one, No one is going to No one is the person who you know, if there was someone who get well, no, but I'm saying there, why would anybody? First of all, all you're going to do is put yourself under the light of suspicion. So if you did something, uh, if you were somehow involved, you don't do the interview.

No, I just yeah, you're just not getting anything out of it. So yeah, all right, thank you, apprecious.

Thanks Matt, great dear you have great weekend, Happy Father's Day. He hung up real quickly six one, seven, two, five, four, ten, thirty six, one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. Again it's up to the jury. What generally juries get it right. We'll see. I kind of imagine what this woman has gone through, uh for the last three years now. Uh, this is it just it just shows that that that

It's Night Side with Y Boston's News Radio.

I love that phrase getting stored. That's an interesting piece by Mike Macklin. Thank you all. Okay, we're going to continue talking about the Karen Reid case. It is now in the hands of the jury. I hope that the jury I think, I hope the jury can come to a decision. Whatever the decision is, I'm willing to accept it. I think that, Uh, there's I don't think there should be a third trial, although it would be. It's very hard for a prosecutor to walk away if there's a

I'm on my way to work.

I'm a nurse.

Thank you for what you do. Thank you.

But two things I watched both trials, and if I'm not mistaken, doctor Sordy Bellow in the first trial not the second trial, said that John o'keith launched three liters of blood. And I just had a patient bleed out last week and she bled out twenty two hundred CC's of blood. That is a lot of blood. So when you're talking about all the forensics and all the evidence and everything else where, was three leaders of blood if this man was supposedly died on the side of the road. That's one.

The other one is they never took swaths of each of the marks on his arms. They never did that, and there's where you probably would have found some DNA of whatever. My other question to you is I agree with you that I don't think she should have done the interviews.

I think that was kind of.

A shot in the foot.

But does she get paid where she's so in debt, does she get paid for those interviews?

Well, in the old days, no self respecting journalists would ever pay for an interview that was not considered appropriate. However, times have changed, and as we've gotten away from the big three networks, ABC and b C, CBS. Uh, and you get to some of these shows that that I think she was on. Uh, it's not inconceivable that that she that she was paid, but I don't know, is

Right.

And like you said, you know, maybe the lesser chargers, but you know again about leaving the scene and all that, they didn't prove that there was a scene yet, you know, they didn't, they didn't really, the Commonwealth didn't really prove you know, sure, yeah, yeah, that was Jackson.

That was Jackson's arguments. As a matter of fact, I had some sound bites of the closing arguments that I but unfortunately we don't have them available for you. But you're you're, you're, you're, you're, you're quoting essentially what Jackson told the jury and if the jury chooses to believe that and if there was no impact and uh and they they believe there was no impact.

Time, Yeah, right, there's no scene. Did you see jas You probably didn't watch it today, but Jackson got choked choked up on the lost sentence. Did you happen to see that.

No I didn't explain it, I'm sure you can describe it.

So the last three things he said was not guilty. And then on the second one he said not guilty, and you could see him get choked up. And then on the third one he said not guilty. And it was like he was so passionate, and it was like, oh, you had just bled for all involved, but you know, you just bled that they have worked so hard.

To try to prove her innocence. It was it was quite a moment.

I thought, yeah, well, again, the burden of proof is not on them to prove her innocence. The burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove her guilt all the elements of the crime charge beyond a reasonable doubt. It's important to realize that that the burden of proof is on the government, and the government always has an advantage in these cases because most people want to want to believe what the government presents.

Right.

So we'll see, it's it's going to be however it comes out. It's going to be interesting. I will say right now, I have no idea how it would come out. The only way that I think it comes out as a guilty at any level. Is if the jury somehow, out of all of the facts that are presented, comes to this conclusion that there there was a mistake made and she read the vehicle instead of going forwards, which she thought the car was in drive, it went backwards.

I have none a quick question for you. Do you think that this case will ever see the lighter day in textbooks for all the lawyers to come.

I doubt it, to be honest with you, because I mean, it could be taken up. But but well, these do these cases do come along at different times in their high profile cases. I can think of others in my career as a as a reporter. Uh, the the Louise Woodward case was a very interesting case. Do you remember that was the woman who was in nanny who was charged with killing one of the bab a child, a baby that was in her care. So you get those

Uh.

I cliped that a little bit early. I apologize. Six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty. We we got a couple of lines open if you'd like your choice. Six one seven nine three one ten thirty. I got Christine and Karen. And I'm glad to have some female voices on this because I think that, well, women may have a different perspective. I think that that it. I just think that that men and women might look at one of these cases differently. That's not to say all

It's Night Side with Dan Ray Boston's news Radio.

All right, let's get to the Phone's going to go to Christine in Denim. Christine, I know how you feel about this case. Tell us why go right ahead?

Well, I was like that play game Prey today and we thought, we thought afterwards that everybody would be there after the court here, but nobody showed up. Everybody was saying this first time I heard this, that he had fight moks on his arms and his neck and prime mops on his arms and neck like he said that. They said the dog could have killed him with his bite on his neck, could have he could have been bitten so badly that he could have died instantly and been brought outside. I don't know.

Yeah, uh, I guess that's another theory. Uh but yeah, I think it's that. It's a theory and uh uh, it's just it's a tragedy all around one. One person is dead, another person's life has been really uh in limbo on hold for three years. Even if she's acquitted, how does she recover? I don't know.

I mean, I feel bad, so bad to his family and to her family. It's it's terrible for them to be going through all of this, you know. And that's you know what they were saying too. I never heard this, they were saying. I hate to say that they found a piece of hair on the tail light and that have belonged to his nephew.

How can that be?

I have no idea. You know, there's a lot of stuff you hear. Okay, okay, yeah, there's there's just a lot of stuff that you hear and you don't know where it's from. So the jury in these cases, they have to be uh that, they have to be careful in what they're exposed to, and hopefully they make their decision based upon what they heard.

I hope, I hope they take their time with us.

Well, that's what the judge told them to do. The judge said, don't rush a decision. We'll see. It could be a few it could be a good days.

How come they work cats for the weekend? Like why they should have been kept? So they don't What if they go home and talk about it?

I mean, well, they're they're they're told frequently in court in a case like this, not to discuss it with anyone, not to read newspaper stories, not to listen to talk radio shows, not to uh not to watch even television news.

Uh so uh, everybody knows, I.

Mean, but yours take their take their responsibility seriously. Thank goodness. Christine has always thank you so much, appreciate your calls and we will talk to thank Christine. I really appreciate it. Thank you much. Have a great one. Let me go to Karen in Watertown. Karen, welcome back. How are you?

Andrew well? Thonk you and you're well?

Tour tickets Yep.

I'm kind of a tough day, uh in the in the business here of I'm not good at migrating information from one computer to another computer. But that's the story that that I've shared with Rob in detail, but I'm not going to talk about that one.

Probably I heard Alan Jackson his complete closing argument. I had to leave to go to work during prank Brennan's but I've got most of it, and that was both of both of them did a great job. And so I thought after Alan Jackson, I was like, oh my god, like, how to thank Brandon accounted this? And he did, And you said you weren't really like wrapped up in this I am.

I don't know. We've talked before. Yeah, that's why That's why I'm so happy you go ahead.

When Carol went to johnal Keith's mother, I mean emotional, she lost her son yep, and Karen Reid really self indicted her. She in tired herself when she agreed to all these interviews. I think that's probably going to be her undoing. Let me ask you, I'm not sure you know, really to.

Ask you a question. Have have you changed your view during during the case. I thought, for some.

Reason, I've been following this case from the very beginning when she was when Karen Reid was jailed, and I thought she probably an alcoholic blackout to around what you did. But Brennan didn't go there when because she start of uh, he started mentioning all the pup when she was mentioning all the possibilities about oh what maybe it was the snow plow, maybe.

It was this, and.

She was inconsistent and what she said.

You you mentioned the closing arguments, and I now have a little bit of sound from each of them. I just want to play a little sound from both the prosecutor and the defense lawyer. Let me let me start off with the defense lawyer, Alan Jackson. Okay, So let's I'm trying to look at these very quickly here and see which one I want to I want to play and want it to be Okay, let's let's he's his emphasis. Obviously, as any good defense lawyer is on reasonable doubt, this

Before we examine the evidence in the case, which we will do, we need to understand the very foundation of the entire system of justice in which we operate, the bedrock on which this entire system is built reasonable doubt. This isn't just a technical and it's not a slogan. It's a constitutional shield that protects the innocent and prevents

So Dr Karen, that's just a snippet.

County, Okay.

I want you to react to that, and then I want to play one sound bye from Hank Brennan. Go ahead, you react to that's a pretty compelling argument that they can be made in any case, But on a case like this, where it's not a slam dunk, it becomes even more compelling your comment, So.

Go ahead about Adam Jackson's. Yeah, he was really convincing, and I thought, holy cow, how is Hank brand Gold you know, react to this?

Okay, then let's do this. I just happened to have. I just happened to have. This was forty seven seconds. I'm trying to be fair. The Hank Brennan sound by his forty six seconds. So let's see. You can compare. You can respond to both of these. This is cut number nine. Rock the prosecutor in this case, Hank Brennan.

We have inevitably, without any doubt, without any doubt, that on January twenty nine, twenty twenty two, miss Reid was with mister Keith and she got drunk. She drank, She was two to three times over the legal limit, and they went to a party and after party and they were fighting.

They were fighting. It was a relationship and decline and you.

Get out of the car. A had a brief window of life left.

Oh when he got out and she drove away, she couldn't let it go. She get drunk, she hit him. She left them to die.

It's that simple, Okay. I think that is the essence of both of these arguments when you cut away all of the specifics. I think that's essentially those are two good comparative sound bites. You listen to one, you think, oh, I tend to agree with the defense lawyer. Then you listen to the prosecutor, and maybe it pulls you over. What do you think that you're always going to do? Oh, you didn't expect me to ask me questions?

Apparently, Dan, I'm just following this, like, really.

Well, who better to ask?

They're apparently a very young jury. You know, these are people who didn't know anything about this case beforehand, so they're not super well informed people. But apparently they're right. I have no idea.

Okay, that's my position. I have no idea what the jury is going to do either, even though you you had the advantage over me, Karen that you listened to both trials, uh, And I just I hope the jury gets can resolve the issues, can come to an agreement either of a guilt on some charge or charges, or a complete innocence not guilty across the board. Because I don't think that most of us can stand a third trial in this case.

We have to get on with the understand that and that's what I think is being lost. You know, there's this all this wearing pink and the whole you know, we said work Kiara read, she's attractive, particulate.

She was a college she was a college for I'm going to sound really obnoxious, really bold, but if the defendant were black or hispanic, there would not be any of this going on.

She's a white, attractive, wealthy woman.

Well, she maybe may have been wealthy when she started, but I don't think she's wealthy now.

No, I know.

Yeah, okay, so so so last comment, and I only have about thirty seconds left. I don't think you want to take a stab at it. But you listen to the closes. You tell me you follow the case twice, both both trials. You're you're you're still not convinced one way or the other. It sounds to me that's like what you're saying.

You know what I'm gonna really candid. I told my boyfriend last night, I said, I have this manifestations vision that you've been taken away with handcuffs. Okay, and I'm going with that because I believe that is the most that we'll give the justice for John CU's Fanley Okay.

We'll leave it at that. We'll see what happens. Karen is always great to hear your voice. It is drama, there's no doubt. Thanks Karen. Okay, good night. All right, so we end the week on a dramatic note. However, however, we have one more hour left and I want to take this next hour and I want to give you an opportunity to salute your favorite father who's either still with us or has passed on. And it can be