It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Bzy Boston's Radio.
Thank you, Dan Watkins. Just a little over a week ago, we had this guest that's coming up on with us and we were had the fortune to talk with doctor Marshall Rungi, who is the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School, and I just felt that it would be great to bring him back, and he is consented to come back and take some phone calls. Doctor Runky, welcome back. You have a book that is just about to come out. I don't know if it's I think
it's public published. Publicity date or published date is May sixth, coming up May sixth, a couple of weeks from now. Is that the deal?
Yes, Dan, And it's great to be back on your show again. Thanks for inviting me.
Oh our pleasure. So your book is The Great Healthcare Disruption.
Uh?
And you this is not your first book as I understand it.
Correct, No, it's not.
It's a new venture for me. Forges Books called me up and asked me if I wanted to write a book about where I thought healthcare was going in the next five to ten years and pick some important topics.
And it was.
A great project to work on.
Well, my test thinning is that you look at the recent technological advances, policy changes, and different business models. Let's break that down a little bit in our conversation to language that lay people can understand. We talked earlier about how difficult it is to find a personal care physician what we call PCBs, PCPs or family doctors back here. Doctors are retiring at a very fast rate. The doctors that were produced through the baby boom. They're hanging the
stethoscopes up. I had lunched the other day with a doctor friend of mine who retired a few years ago, and irust him about the fact that it's tough to get a doctor these days, no matter how old you are. And he was saying that he knew of a PCP, you know, general practitioner who retired and she cannot find a doctor herself. So in the midst of all of the renovations, you know, the new renovations, the technological renovations that we're that we're talking about, just getting a doctor's tough.
So let's talk about some of these advances. Let's talk about the good ones first. What are the developments that you see that are clearly going to be positive going forward. In the terms of.
Healthcare, well, I think there are several I do think finally, after a long time, there's much attention being paid to how we need to educate more doctors, and particularly those who are going to do primary care, so family medicine, doctors, in general internals, general pediatricians. Because if you look at there are all different kinds of ways to measure it. But if you look at the number of primary care physicians per one thousand in the United States, that's about
point three to one. But if you look at our peer countries, sort of the high income advanced countries, their numbers are up to five or ten times as many primary care physicians. And I think that one of the things that we really need to focus on is helping people be healthy. Now we have great healthcare. If I'm going to be terribly sick, I'd rather be in the
United States than anywhere else. But you're absolutely right, it's hard to find a primary care doctor, and we need to increase the number of people in those areas, and I think there are ways to do it, and I think we need to do more to try to keep people healthy so they don't have to go to the office, so that's.
Why they bought. But the number that you just gave, I want to break that down. You're saying that for every primary care physician in this country, per one thousand people, there is zero point three to one. So that means that every primary care physician in this country, you've got to triple that thousand. There's one primary care physician for
about every three thousand people, which is crazy. I think that's y. Yes, that's too much for anyone to handle, which is why so many people now their primary care physician is the local emergency room. We've gotten into that situation too, by the way, which is kind of the flip side of that ugly coin.
Yes, you're you're absolutely right, Dan. And the other problem with the merchaningy rooms. I mean, there they provide great care, but it's very expensive. But the biggest part is you lose that continuity that you would have with a physician that you know, a doctor that you know, so because you go to the Mercury moom, it could be whoever happens to be working on on that shift. I do go ahead, let me.
Ask you one question. One of the solutions that I think the medical community was suggesting UH to make up for the shortfall of internist pediatricians and primary care physicians, the doctor who you go to see on a regular basis, UH is saying, well, we'll graduate people who are known as UH. You know, medical assistants are are what what is I'm trying to think of the phrase they're not quite doctors, but their physicians assistance is the phrase I'm thinking. Yeah,
it's sort of in the spectrum. You know, I love nurses, but between becoming a doctor or a nurse, they have these folks are now physicians assistants. Has that experiment run its course and either succeeded or failed.
It has in general succeeded and both for physicians assistants and and UH. In nursing there are what are called advanced practice nurses who are nurse practitioners, and that has been very helpful. And actually, in many rural areas or underserved areas, they the physician's assistants or nurse practitioners. They're they're they're they're the primary care provider in those areas because there just aren't enough doctors to who live there
who want to practice medicine there. So I think it has been a it's been an important solution, and but it's not enough. And I think that a problem that I think we touched on briefly before Dan was that physicians just feeling worn out, burned out. And there are some technologies that I think are going to be really helpful. One of those has to do with AI. So there's a technology called ambient AI that's used in healthcare. Now, it's not widely used, but it's we're using it in
the Versus Michigan. What it does is it listens to the conversation between the doctor and the patient, or the nurse practitioner or the physician's assistant and the patient, and it doesn't just transcribe it. It transforms it into a really high quality medical note. For all of us who've played around with AI, it's just amazing how it can summarize things and make it very logical. And so what that helps with is I don't know about you, but when I go to see my interness, generally he's facing
the other way. He's a great doctor, he's facing the other way. He's tpping on his computer trying to keep up. And most primary care physicians say at the end of the day, they have two or three hours worth of documentation left. If they use this technology that I was just just they could be done when their clinic is done. Those notes are churned out by the time, but within a minute or two of when they finish their patient counter that can prove it, read it, correct it, and
go on to the next questient. So there are technologies like that that they help, okay, and.
So those that ambient AI produces a document which isn't just sort of like a verbatim transcription of the entirety of the conversation. It is able because it's artificial intelligence to isolate the portions of the conversation that are important to the doctor and to the patient, and it's then presented in a form that looks more like a form that the doctor would would produce, not just the transcript. How you're doing today, what's going on? Those Tigers keep winning,
They're going to be a good team this year. That is not what's going to be trans We're going to be I assumed they're gonna They're gonna separate the wheat from the chaff, is what I'm trying to say. If it's if it's it really is artificial intelligence exactly.
And I'll tell you another interesting factor of what AI is bringing forward and announces medical records. If you have requested your medical record, or you look at your medical record, it can be page after page after page after page of stuff that's just kind of piled on, and you can put that into an AI reader and interpreter and it can come up with a very powerful but concise
summary of all the important things. And so rather than you having to look through or your doctor having to looked through fifteen pages, they it's a page and it has or maybe a page in a half, and it has everything that you need to do.
Well, you know, doctor Ronki. I'm a keeper of records. I have in my office my medical records, okay by year and obviously over time. Some of them do provide insight out of importance. Others are just repetitive or unnecessary. And if there was a machine, I could see these records and I actually make up when I have the time, charts and graphs for myself, so I can look at, well, what was my what was my blood pressure? What was my cholesterol five years ago, ten years ago? Is there
anything that is trending in a bad direction. I assume this is the sort of artificial intelligence that they could do that for me.
Yes, But I have to tell you, Dan, you're like the perfect patient. I'm a cardiologist and for somebody who wants to follow what they're doing and knows what's going on. You know that that's my day when I see somebody
like you. But you could try this experiment. You could take your you know, take a pile of your medical records and you can make a PDF of it, drag it over into chat, GPT and FAY summarize the important components of my medical record, show my blood pressure results over the past five years or whatever you want to look at. Are you my blood work, and it'll do it, and it'll.
Do it in minutes.
It is I try because I was just interested. Does it really work? And it really works?
You're the dean of a medical school. Of course, you got to try that. My guest is doctor Marshall Rangy. His book is The Great health Care Disruption. It's it's published by Forbes Books. It's coming out on May sixth. I assume it's available now through Amazon and places like that. We have a lot to cover. If you'd like to join the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. It's not often on night Side, and I've had a lot
of guests over eighteen years. I haven't had too many deans of medical schools, nor any dean of medical school who is who is a fluid and as understandable. Uh as doctor Rungy and Uh, I'm delighted he's back. We'll get some phone calls. Any question you might have, feel free. As I keep telling you that, as I learned in law school, the only questions that are dumb questions are the ones that you're too afraid to ask because they always came up on the midterms or in the final exam.
So if you have any question, you know he's not going to diagnose you. Over the year. You understand the ground rules at Nightside that regard to okay, but if you have a question, feel free. We'll be back on Nightside with doctor Marshall RUNGI.
Right after this, you're on Night Side with Dan Ray on wz Boston's news radio.
We will get to phone because I promise, but I just have one more segment that i'd like to talk with Doctor Marshall rungy about. He is the dean of the medical school at the University of Michigan, which is a great university for anyone who doesn't understand it is one of the pre eminent universities in this country. I just want to touch briefly, and we only have about four minutes until the newscast. Five minutes to the newscast. Here just to give a perspective, how many students does
the University of Michigan. How many seats do you have for students coming in as a first year medical student that you can admit.
Every year, we admit about one hundred and seventy student. It varies a little bit from year to year, but one hundred and seventy a year, okay.
And how many students apply for those one hundred and seventy seats?
Oh golly, I bet it's competitive. It's close to ten thousand people apply for those Okay.
Very co If it's ten thousand people who apply, most of whom I assume have conquered organic chemistry. You're talking about an admission rate of one point seven percent. If I'm doing my math, if.
I that's probably right. Your math is faster than mine. But I think that sounds right. Yes, it's a very low admission, right.
Yeah, if it was a thousand seats for ten thousand, it would be ten percent. This is this is over one and a half percent, one point seven percent. And how many of those students who you because you only have so many seats, who you cannot physically accept that you have to reluctantly deny. How many of them do you think seek a medical career elsewhere, if if at other medical schools, or if necessary offshore. You and I
have talked about the offshore medical schools before. I just want people to understand that that these are qualified students. I mean the you know, I assume that a good percentage of those students could handle you know, the medical school experience, but you just don't have the seats.
Yes, that's correct, Dan. We on an average year, we feel there are five or six hundred very high quality candidates, you know, after we go to this pool. But the number is so high because now, as with college applications, a person can apply to thirty different places, and so we get a lot of there are a lot of
people applying to different medical schools. But I would estimate the number of highly qualified candidates in the United States exceeds the number of positions in US medical schools by at least two or threefolds.
So.
Much higher.
And a lot of those folks end up going to medical schools that are called offshore medical schools. I guess they can go to schools in Canada if those schools are available, they are Canadian residents. How do we rectify this? How do we get in this situation where there are kids who are who are knocking at the door and they and they want to be doctors, and we don't have the capacity to educate them well. University of Michigan, I'm talking about we as a society.
Yes, I think there are a couple of issues. One is medical school education, like all education, who's gotten highly regulated. And some of that's positive and some of it's not a positive. But one of the things that has resulted in is I think our medical school classes are smaller than they could be. I think we have the capacity the University of Michigan, both the capacity for the more scientific parts of it as well as the capacity to
train in different practice locations, different hospitals. We could train twice as many people and I think that's probably true in most medical schools. But there's concern about is that too many, too many students for us to give the knobable experience. The regulatory agencies, the Licensing commit Commission for Medical Education LCME, it's very difficult to increase the size of your class, and so I think we need to take a look at that and say, why can't we
do more? Because we need more physicians, really, really in every specialty. The number of physicians is inadequate in the United States. And this dates back, oh more than twenty years when studies were done under the belief that certain changes in healthcare were going to result in far much lower need for physicians. And that just turned out to be a wrong assumption. So we need direct that and part of that's on us. Part of it's on me. I've been trying to get us to increase the size
of our medical school class. But it's a state Hills time.
Well, your class at the University of Michigan admits one hundred and seventy Here in Massachusetts, Michael Collins is the dean out there, and doctor Collins tells me it's a hard cap at one and twenty. Now I know Michigan's a bigger state than Massachusetts. But I think that that you're doing pretty well compared to Massachusetts. And whoever came up with that idea that they would need fewer doctors
with the baby boomers now aging wasn't. Didn't anybody look at the birth certificates from the birth rates from the late forties and early fifties and do some man on that.
I mean, clearly, I can only plead innocent. I wasn't part of those studies.
No, I'm sure you were. I'm sure you weren't. But whoever was, I think that they did do some calculations. Were getting to take a break at it to get some news here will we want to talk more with doctor Marshall Runggy. He's the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School, a great medical school. His book The Great Healthcare Disruption, published by Forbes Books, available May sixth, twenty twenty five. I'm sure you can get it through Forbes Books. You can get it at Amazon. You can
order it. It's coming out on May sixth. That probably there's there's pre orders available. We're going to talk a little bit about the book two when we get back some of the transformation that doctor Rungi said is really necessary. We'll get to all of that and also get to some phone calls. I promise if you'd like to get on board now, you'll be guaranteed to get a chance
to chat. If you wait, you may we may run out of time because we have Professor Stephen Pinker of Harvard University psychologists at Harvard University joining us at ten o'clock to talk about the Trump administration's efforts or threats to take the tax exempt status away from Harvard University. Steve Pinker has been on the show before. He is
no flaming radical at all. He's been very critical of some of the actions of the administration at Harvard, particularly as it related to some of the demonstration's last spring, the EI initiatives, et cetera. But he feels that it is an overstretch, overreach for the government to begin to withdraw tax exempt status from an institution like Harvard, for that matter, for really almost any institution, health care, facilit university,
a place of worship. We'll get to all of that, I promise, if you'd like to jump on board six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,
thirty six one seven, nine three, one, ten thirty. And if you are a college student out there who might be listening and are thinking about practicing medicine, this is an opportunity not to plead your case for acceptance to the University of Michigan, but you certainly can ask the dean what courses perhaps are would be most helpful to see on your resume and what you might be able to do at an extracurricular basis which might stand you out apart from all of the other highly qualified applicants.
Back on Nightside the number six one, seven, two, five four ten thirty or six one, seven, nine three one ten thirty. Back on Nightside right after the news.
So you're on night Side with Dan Ray.
I'm w b Z, Boston's news Radio, delighted to have with us as my guest this hour, doctor Marshall Rungi. He is the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School.
Uh.
Doctor Ronki, we actually have listeners in Michigan, and I'm hoping one or two of them might pick up the phone tonight just so they that you will believe what I'm talking about. We have listened all over the country.
Uh.
And this is a problem that does exist all over the country. Is there anywhere in America, in your opinion or within your knowledge, where it is easier to get a new doctor if your doctor happens to retire or move move the practice out of town, or is this a problem that exists almost everywhere?
Then I think it's almost everywhere, and in particular to get a new primary care doctor. Now, in many cities there's a more of a concentration of specialists, and it may be easier to find a specialist in large cities than it is in smaller, smaller towns or rural areas. But the problem with finding the primary care doctor is everywhere.
Yeah. And that is the foundation upon which any person needs to build their medical care in my opinion, because it's that primary care doctor that is going to spot things in your on your chart or just during your annual visit or your semi annual visit with the blood test and see some number is going in the wrong direction. Let me let's let's get some callers in here as well as our conversation. If it's okay, We're going to go first to Frank, who is calling not from Michigan
but from South Boston. Frank, You're on with doctor Marshall Roungy. He's the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School and the author of a new book, The Great Healthcare Disruption.
Hey, Dan, thank you for taking my call, and thank you doctor Rungi for doing this. I think this is a great topic and very interesting. It's very close to me. I'd like to preface this with all about a year ago, Dan, I spent twenty one years in prison on a wrong for conviction. I've been out for twenty four years, but I've been so foretratulation.
Did you know you're over there with Fred Weichel in South Boston who was in the same situation or a similar situation. And I'm sure you know the cases that I worked on, the Silvadi Lamoni case. Did you get did you ever get compensation from the Colnwealth of Massachusetts? Assume was a state conviction.
It was, it was, and I didn't get as much as I would have liked, But yeah, I did.
But what I just like, Okay, well, congratulations, I hope, I hope you got good medical care when you were in prison. That's one of the benefits of being in prison. There is a medical care. But how are you doing okay right now? I hope medically.
Yeah. And if I was still in prison, I wouldn't be alive today. But I'd like to say, you know, I, first of all, doctor Ruggie my my, I'm a cancer survivor. I've been cancer free. I was diagnosed at the beginning of COVID and stage three prostate cancer and went to forty four radiation treatments with a student from University of Michigan, my urologist, doctor Mark Katz, who's like one of the top one hundred doctors in Massachusetts. But I'm so blessed
to have the team of doctors. I am lucky, you know, to have the team of doctors because I know how hard it is to get a PCP. I've had the same PCP at South Boston Community Health Center for about fourteen years. She's an angel. She diag you know, she said, you know, there's something wrong here and sent me in and I saw the urologist and it went from there.
But and I with the you know, the lack of primary care physicians, there's more more and more you see more PA's doing stuff, more nas and more d os osteopathic medicine doctors and they're all great, you know, but I mean the strain. I can see it here in South Boston and it's a great, great community health center that we've got, but I can you know, I can
see the strain. And another day, I was just selected by Boston Medical to go to Washington, d C. Next month, the twenty second and next month for Hill Day with the American Association of Cancer Institutions and the American Association of Cancer Research. I just like to ask, you know, like the impact that this is having at U Michigan the cuts, because that's what I'm going to Capitol Hill's to speak about the cuts for research that are happening right now.
And I.
Yeah, let me hold that into a question for you, Frank. And your story is amazing, Doctor Rounggy. We're dealing with, you know, the concerns that people have about cutbacks, health and human services cut backs, amongst others. How your governor, Governor Whitman, was in the Oval office the other day with the President, as I'm sure you know, what is the level of concern out there within the medical community, within the academic community. Stay there, Frank, don't don't don't
leave we'll get you. If you have a follow up question, go ahead, Doctor Roggy.
Thanks and Frank, that's great. It's about your pros say cancer, and it's great to hear you're going to Washington to testify because this is a big concern, and it's a concern because some of the proposed legislation or changes would reduce both access to care as well as reducing some of the critical research. It's ongoing clinical trials and other research that is developing the new cures that perhaps helped you through your prostate cancer. So you know, it's it's
it's something that I know I'm concerned about. We're concerned about Michigan, but I think everyone is concerned about it, and I think we need to hope that we can get things, uh kept on track in terms of medical research and in support of all healthcare providers. I agree. I think all all those you listened are its great. I don't know if you go to one of these community clinics that's a federally sponsored one, they're called federally
Qualified Health centers. Are those are outstanding clinics and they're present in you know, every city and in many rural areas. But again I don't know if that's what you go to, but there are opportunities out there, but so many of those depend on federal.
All right, well, Frank, best of luck, You're a success story. Just keep at it, okay, and and uh and best of luck. Have a safe trip to Washington, and let us know how it goes when you get back.
Okay, I will, I will, thank you very much. I wish that I had I wish I could have spoken with doctor with Steve Tinker also because it's like, you know, directly connected with what is just the cuts.
But but yeah, this is great professor Pinker, Pinker p I n K E R. He's been all before and uh, we'll get some calls for him as well, and you'll be listening. So I thank you much, Frank, and we will talk again. Thanks so much. Congratulations on finding justice and also a cure.
You're thank thanks thanks for doing this show too.
Dan, very welcome, Thank you, Frank, were good to take quick break. My guest is doctor Marshall Runkie. He's the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School.
Uh.
There aren't many deans of medical schools around the country. There are a few of deans of medical schools, and the rare pro baseball players are pro football players, so it is a very special class of people. His book, The Great Healthcare Disruption. Is this a book, Doctor Rungi, that is geared to medical providers or is this a book that the general public can benefit from.
It's mainly geared towards the general public. There's good many there are details that are maybe helpful for medical providers in areas that they're not as familiar with. But it's written with the intention of being accessible by people who are interested in learning more about their own health and about healthcare advances.
Excellent, excellent. We'll take a very quick break and we'll come back for final segment six seven two four ten thirty six seven nine. And I know no one out there in Michigan is going to call, but please don't make don't make a liar out of me. We'll be back on Night's Side right after this with the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School, doctor Marshall Runggay. Back after this quick break.
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Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news Radio.
Back with doctor Marshall Rongey, the Dean of the University of Michigan Medical School. We're talking about innovations in the medical field and also the paucity of primary care physicians. Don't mean to be too illiterative there, but I'll tell you try to find a primary care physician in internist to whatever characters you want. It is very, very difficult, even for retiring doctors themselves, as I found out a few days ago in a conversation with a retired doctor.
Let me go next to Peter Is in Weston, Massachusetts. Peter, welcome, You are next on nice Eye with doctor ed. Doctor Marshall. Rungy, go right ahead, Peter.
Great, Thank you.
Dan Hey.
First of all, great show tonight, everything from cybersecurity to healthcare. Really impressed with your guest this evening. So thanks first of all, big shadout to doctor Rungy Goblue as a proud University of Michigan graduate. I mean he's been calling from ann Arbor. But I'm right down the road from you, and I have a son graduating from Michigan in about two weeks, so I'll be an ann Arbors graduation.
Awesome, go Blue, So about as close as the.
Call you'll get from ann Arbor. So my question really is related to this scarcity of primary care physicians. Right I myself here in the Boston area you'd consider to be an epicenter of healthcare.
I've lost two.
Primary care physicians to concierge practices. And what I've found, and this trend, is that more and more people like myself are going to urgent care minic clinic to get their primary care taken care of. Can you talk a little bit about that trend and how more and more I guess patients they're just kind of losing patients. Pardon the punt with their primary lack of primary care and just heading off to their local minic clinic or urgent care, which you see all over the place.
Now, you bring up a really excellent point. And certainly there are primary care physicians who are going into concierge care in part because it allows them to have a smaller patient panel and they don't feel so stressed. But it takes away from the access that people have for primary care physicians. And I think you can get good health to care a lot of places. What the biggest concern I have and I think that people run into,
is fragmentation of their care. So if you go to a minic clinic one time, or you go to an urge care another time, you don't really have any one person who's following all your health problems and who's gathering all your information so that if you run into a complicated problem, they know what how to fit that into your medical history. I think almost every healthcare provider I know is dedicated and wants to provide the best care
that we can. But it gets complicated if you get your if your only alternative it is to get your care in multiple places.
Is it even possible to develop a medical history by going to urgent care clinics and Adam, I'm not using that phrase in terms of a trademark phrase. You go in and you don't feel well, they take your pulse and they give you some prescription, but they're not doing your blood work in all likelihood unless it's a you know, how do you get your blood work done without a
primary care physician on an annual basis? I don't even understand how if you go in and say I want my blood work done, I don't think it's a primary care facility they're going to do that. How do you do this? How do you accomplish this?
Peter, Well, you know it's my understand and your electronic health record does follow you. You know, there's this whole thing right now from yeah, yeah, I guess is that yeah ahead?
No, But I'm saying, if you're my doctors with partners Gateway right, and so he's associated with Mass General. But if I go to a primary care place on the Cape because you know, I've had a be sting, that's fine, that's fine, But I'm not going to go in there and say, gee, I haven't seen a doctor in a year. Can I get a physical I'm not sure do those primary care locations or urgent care locations do they do annual physicals and stuff like that that that any good PCP is going to do.
For you, believe it or not, they will do that, you know, if you can't get an appointment. For example, I have two kids I mentioned one is that Michigan. I stually both of them are at Michigan. To be honest, one of the senior ones a freshmen, both graduated from the Western public schools. If you could not get an appointment in time for them to be approved to play their high school sports, you go down urgent care and get the same physical for them to be allowed to
do that. So that is one example of I think how how I think patients are finding that care of care availability UH in a more convenient way. And I think there's this whole trend towards the consumerzation of healthcare.
There's something to be said when we know more about our uber drivers than we do about you know, our local positions, right, I mean, how we don't have access to this information you know, in the in our in our smartphones, the same way we do with everything else we do, whether it's our banking, our car services, our food delivery. I just think healthcare has.
To catch up.
Yeah, right ahead, doctor Peter. I think this is a you bring up really important questions and comments, and uh, I think you're you're right. I'd make another point or two, which is we do have electronic medical records, but something that has been talked about for years and it's not accomplished. Just what's called interoperability, where even if you have the same epic medical record in one place, it may not
talk to the epic medical record in another place. Epic is a common medical correct but you know these are solvable, and the last time I look, I think they're forty or the new infants into healthcare where you can get immediate access now a lot of times over the telephone or over zoom, but immediate access, and so I think connecting all those is something we must pay attention to.
The other comment I want to make in that is that on occasion when either I have had to go to an emergency room, or my wife had went to an emergency room, or one of my children went to an emergency room, it's never convenient. I mean, you're always going to wait two, three, four or five hours. My brother broke his knee a year ago in June, his former state police lieutenant, and he fell and fractured his kneecap. He ended up waiting about twelve hours in an emergency
room before a doctor would even see him. I mean, it was insane in terms of the amount of people. Now, who are you using e ers as their their PCPs? Peter? Great? Great, when'd you graduate from Michigan? Were you were there when I'm Tom Brady time.
A long time ago?
I was.
I was probably right before the Tom Brady era. But I will say we won the national championship in basketball nineteen eighty nine.
A local.
Was one of the stars of that team. That's right afterwards. But a great squad. And I really appreciate your your your program, Dan and doctor Rangky outstanding guest obviously. Anyone who's a Michigan man is gonna be a great guest. And hopefully I'll bump into your Ingerman when I'm out there in a couple of weeks.
Yeah.
I hopeful we get again to see each other.
Yeah, Peter, the introduction has been made, Peter, the invitation has been saying, so take advantage of it. You'd be crazy not to thank you. Peter, thanks so muchciate it, don't you run? Yeah? I tell you how much I appreciate you. Thanks, Peter, can't tell you much. I appreciate the time that you've spent with us tonight. You're extraordinary and I really mean that. Let me just again encourage people. The book that will come out on May sixth, but I'm sure it's available in advance.
Now.
That's the way the books work these days. Correct. If someone wants to get this, they can probably get it on Amazon tonight and get a shipped tomorrow. The Great Healthcare Disruption is the name of the book, Doctor Marshall, rungy are you nnge? I wish a huge success with the book, and maybe maybe I can convince you to come back sometime in the fall and we can have a little update on how the medical community is doing and how the book sales are going. How's that.
I'd love to Dan and thank you for having me on the show. I really enjoy hearing your thoughts and those are your guests. It's been great.
Well, we have great guests, and we do have people listening in Michigan. Believe it or not, this is a big, powerful and I'm disappointed in my Michigan people who didn't get a chancet didn't have the courage to call it tonight, Doctor Rungky, again, thanks very much, and congratulations on the success of the Detroit Tigers so far. Don't know if it's going to last, but they're playing. They're playing a lot better than had been expected, so congratulations ranks.
Yeah, they're looking good, right.
Doctor Marshall Rocky, the Dean of the University of Michigan Medical School, an extraordinary guest. We'll be talking with Professor Steve Stephen Pinker of Harvard University right after the ten o'clock news here on Nightside