It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Constance Radio.
Fought to welcome back a friend of the program he's been with us before, Dave Cash. Dave Cash, welcome back to Night Side. How were you, sir.
I'm doing great. It's great to be on the show again, Dan, thanks so much.
Most recently, Dave Cash was the regional administrator for what is called Region one for the United States Environmental Protection Agency that covers six news New England states and also ten federally recognized tribes here in New England. And Dave
has a deep knowledge and understanding. He was at one point a high school teacher, but subsequently he worked in the Romney administration here in Massachusetts as a director of Air, Energy and Waste Policy, and then went on to work in the Biden administration as a said, say, the top EPA administrator here in New England, Dave, we have just had a very cold winter in New England. At least that's the way it seems to me. YEA, do you concur that this has been a colder than normal winter.
Everyone's paying more money for their energy. I'm sure you know that.
Yeah, I mean I think this has kind of been like a normal winter for New England fifteen or twenty years ago, and maybe we all kind of sell The last couple of winters have been kind of dry and kind of warm, and so getting socked with a regular New England winter. But yeah, I mean, I mean, man, you must feel it. I know I feel it. Higher gas bills and electric bills this month, and I mean
you know why they're high. They're high because we depend so much on natural gas here all New England's energy electricity prices, they're high due to our heavy reliance on natural gas. It's like over fifty percent of our electricity country natural gas. That means like we're linked to the vagaries of the market and we're here in New England at the end of the pipeline literally and figuratively, so when gas prices go up and down, oof, we feel it.
And so that's every one of the many, many reasons why we should be moving to other sources, whether that's nuclear, which we're still at about twenty five percent there, but hydro, offshore, wind, solar, those are all things that ultimately are going to bring down the price of electricity for consumers, because obviously you don't pay fuel costs for solar and wind. Those are yeah, those are break You've.
Got to cover me a little skeptical at the moment on that. O. Sure, but that's what we're going to talk about. You've you've certainly focused here. On the one hand, we've all felt the sting of higher prices this winter. Now it has been a little colder, but you're right, it's not abnormally cold. It's not like all of a sudden we're in some sort of you know, depth of winter beginning in November. First, November was fairly mild. December got a little colder kind of hit us in January.
February was cold month. It's funny every Sunday I look in the globe and they talk about how cold it has been, uh in you know, whether it's above average or a below average? Do you know that the globe is trying to convince me and I have no idea where they have the where they take these temperatures, that it's been warmer than normal, like by a degree and a half. I just don't buy that. But that's we'll put that. We'll put that aside.
So you know, that's what if that's what the science is saying. I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't doubt it depends on that.
Well, it's the question is I don't know where the science is. If the science guy is standing in his living room and taking the temperature, if he's standing outside, I don't think so.
Yeah, Now, come on, you know they got they got monitors all over the state where they're you know they're they're they're getting all the numbers.
They do that. The last couple of winters, I would agree with you it was a little warm and normal, but I just think this winter was colder than normal. So so what we're trying to do here is we're trying to balance the cost of living in New England, okay, with the energy options that we have. And I want to go through some of those with you and know that you're a huge supporter of solar and you're a huge supporter of wind. So let me let me ask you about those in in a in a bit of
a challenging way. Okay, solar in New England, me in Arizona. No t how efficient it can solar ever be for New England.
So the real question it's not it's not about efficiency, right. We know we're not as efficient as Arizona, there's no question about okay, right, The question is is it worth the cost? Right, that's the question because Arizona also has has relatively low electricity prices in general, and so we're here in this market, like I said, at the end of the natural gas pipeline, so we pay high costs. So if solar is not as great here as it is in Arizona, well that's okay. If it's still better
than the alternative. And what we've seen in the last ten fifteen years is the price of solar coming down, down, down, down, and it's coming down because it's expanding everywhere because the government is supporting it with subsidies and pact incentives. Yeah, exactly. But then then that means more manufacturers are going to build it, and then they're going to compete, and the price is going to come down. We see, we've seen that.
We've seen that, you know, with batteries with solar, with wind, with onshore wind, with offshore wind, we'll get, we'll get with all those.
I just want to take them one at their time. So let's come back yea, yeah for a second, okay, So solar is never going to be a panacea for New England. It might help a little bit, but obviously it's not a panacea. Now you talked about we're at the end of the pipeline, Dave, We're not really at the end of the pipeline. But we have politicians in
New England who fight against adding pipelines. If you talk to the heads of ever source in National Grid, as I have, they've always said we need more pipelines in Massachusetts. But what will happen is in the middle of July, when no one's thinking about their electric bills, there'll be some demonstration. Not in my backyard. I don't want to prison, I don't want a waste treatment plant, and I certainly don't want a pipeline. And you go through my neighborhood.
So we solve how do we deal with that problem? Or is that an impossible problem to deal with?
No, it's not an impossible I mean there are a bunch of parts of that problem. One problem is I think a fair question is should we be investing in fossil fuel infrastructure like pipelines when we know we know we've got to move to a clean energy future for many, many, many reasons, public public health, in terms of local air pollution, climate change, the benefits for clean energy economy where the United States can be a major global competitor, it lowers
costs as I described earlier. So the question is what are the things we should be investing in, And I would argue fossil fuel pipelines is not the answer. The answer is more transmission.
Is not natural gas one of the cleanest forms of energy right now?
It is definitely one of the cleanest forms of fossil energy.
And we have it in well, yeah, let's just take the word fossil for a seconds. That's a dirty word. But there isn't there an abundance of natural gas in America? Why not play to our strength in the short term and bring a couple of more pipelines in and bring and realize that maybe at some point thirty forty years from now, we're all going to be sold. It's going to be hydro and nuclear. Whatever. Do we really have to look at at this point as natural gas as an enemy?
It's not an enemy in a peer right now, and so we should use it now, but we should get the heck off it as soon as we can. Fossil fuels have played a really important role in our country, no question. Because of fossil fuels, we were able to grow and industrialize and all of the kinds of things that we've come to love about this country. Right, But the time for fossil fuels is over. We've found it
causes major problems in the environment. It causes health problems, cancer, heart disease, asthma attacks, all of those kinds of things. And we have the technology, the cheaper and cheaper technology to move to the clean energy future. So I would say, thank you, thank you natural gas. Your time is done. What let's get these offshore wind farms going. Well, yeah, look everywhere.
I gotta take a break. I got to take a break. And you ever convinced me yet, we're going to go back. My guest is Dave cash Uh. He is someone who has spent his life looking at energy issues. Many of
you have been looking at your bills. Uh. And obviously there's a little bit of a difference approach between Dave and myself, and I will acknowledge that this is his area of expertise, but I have strong feelings on it and we can all have a great conversation for the next rob or so six six six month, seven two five, four, ten thirty six, Month seven nine, three, one, ten thirty. Will be right back on night Side, more conversation with
Dave Cash, and we will get to phone calls. I'll tell you right now, light those lines up if you really want to get in. If you are a big proponent of solar or wind or hydro, you want to call and tell Dave he's absolutely right, not that he needs any convincing. If you're somebody who's a little skeptical of these and wants to hold on too at least natural gas and is probably more comfortable with nuclear, I'm your guy. We're not making a debate. It's a conversation.
It's North America's back porch, or maybe even tonight North America's front port gets the kind of windy in the back. We'll be back right after this.
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
We're talking about energy energy cost here in New England. We know they were expensive this winter and they'll be expensive this summer. If you're dealing with air conditioning with us. As Dave Cash, he's a former most recent Regional Administrator of the United States Environmental Protection Agency, the Region one office, which is the six New England states and the ten recognized tribes here in New England. So we talked a little bit about solar, and we come back to solar,
but let's talk about offshore wind. Okay, Now, when I think about wind, it's always offshore. I've been in other parts of the country where the the turbines are in, you know, in the in the like Kansas, there is no offshore. It's always lad locked. But we got a problem offshore because, as I understand it, you got whales that are being impacted by this. They're throwing blades into the water. Is there anywhere in America where offshore wind has is effective.
Well, the most effective at this point is off.
The coast of New England. The wind is incredibly strong and constant, and the National Marine Fisheries Service and other agencies have studied the whale problem and it isn't really a problem, especially when they've changed some of the sighting of some of the turbines to not get in the way of migration routes and things like that. And sure you're going to have problems like the blade flying off.
But Boyd compared to say the BP oil spill and any other time you have fossil fuel spills, this is nothing and this is a huge resource for this region.
This let me ask you, how did the how did the how did the I'm being serious with you now. I understanding that in the last year or so, they've had a tremendous number of whales wash up ashore off the New Jersey Coast. And I don't know that they've been able to figure what what what caused that? But what are the environmentalists saying about the protection of the whales. I know that off the cape we deal with sharks and there's shock, kivity and all of that sort of stuff.
But I assume you've heard the story about the the uptick in in whale carcasses off the New Jersey coast. We're not talking about the former governor Chris Christy. By the way, Let let me make that very clear right now.
Okay, you know, I I don't I know, I've studied. I've read some of those studies. They're not related to win. You see upticks in whale death.
We don't know why suicide.
I mean, when you when you've got these big projects that are office those it takes years to do the analysis, the environmental analysis, and the planning to make sure they're not a problem. And you know, for for for President Trump to kind of put the brakes on this whole sector which is just booming. I mean, we're talking in New England jobs, jobs, jobs, the the kind of renaissance of New Bedford and Salem and Bridgeport and New London
with new offshore windos. How many how many jobs it's going to be tens of thousands, It's going to be thousands where we now multiple thousands. I don't know the total number, multiple thousands. I mean, I don't know if you've ever have you ever like driven by most recently, I think it was New London and and New Bedford to just have these massive monopiles ready to go out in the ocean, and you know that there's like there's supply chain manufacturing going to be on shore, et cetera.
And I just I gotta say I scratched my head on this one where you know, the President claims there is an energy emergency and yet he's putting the brakes on one of the most important and in the pipeline. I mean, we're talking like we've got you know, gigawats and gigawats and gigawats ready to go. And you know it's clean.
We're going to we're going to lose some of the mathem the non mathematicians. Let me give it to you more directly. Let's assume that we were able to put in a substantial number of offshore wind farms. Okay, and let us assume that we think for a moment, forget about the whales they got. You know, whatever the cost is, it's it's a cost that that we have to deal with. How much would significant offshore windmills bring down the average
winter electric bill in New England? I'm just put it in dollars and cents.
Oh Dan, you're you're asking me to answer a question. I have no idea what the answer to.
But the reason I say, I mean, I don't. The reason I asked the question is this. It's one thing to say, hey, let's do this, but I think in order to convince the public that it's a good idea and put it, put aside the whale people who are who are never going to be with you. But principle, somehow someone's got to quantify it.
But that's okay, And yeah, I don't well, I don't know what the exact answer is. I do know that the all the studies have shown that in the long term that once we have full build out of offshore wind, our prices will be lower than they are now and they'll be less volatile. And the volatility is what kills a business. Right, if you're business that depends or any or school building owner, you know you can't that or a homeowner. Right, My electric builds are much higher this
year than last year. How do I budget for my family? Well, offshore wind it's more constant, not depending on oil, I mean on gas coming from elsewhere. Those are the things that are going to help you.
Okay, let's talk Let's talk about We talked about solo, we talked about wind. Let's talk about hydro. I remember flying on a plane with Governor Hugh Gallon of New Hampshire. You might not even remember him. He was the governor of New Hampshire in the late seventies, really smart guy, and he was talking to me and we were sitting on the plane and he was talking about hydro Quebec and how Quebec was the answer. This is in the
late seventies, so it's at least forty years ago. How much is hydro Quebec or hydro at any anywhere contributing to our power supply here in New England? Where is it's high?
I think it's in the twenty plus percent in New England.
That's because that's.
At Yeah, well, we don't have that much hydro here within the region, and we get about I'm sorry, wait, no, I'm sorry, I'm over speaking. It's more than that. It's in the tent. It's in the ten to fifteen range. But the but when I was when I was in state government in the Romney administration and then in the
Patrick administration I followed. In the Patrick administration, we were really trying to figure out how to get electricity from hydro Quebec because they had surplus in a pretty major way and they were looking for a market and we were looking for supply. It seems like a perfect match. And we mentioned the problem of sighting and things like that.
Nimby, I'm curious.
It didn't work. And it didn't work because we couldn't cite that there's been only one of what we thought we needed three major transmission lines and only one got permitted because they were blocked in New Hampshire, there were problems in Maine. It just was a very frustrating I mean, this is part of your question about the difficulty, David.
I don't mean to be interrupted with you. You've known so much more about this. So who blocked them in New Hampshire? And who blocked the transmission lines? And with these overground transmission lines or underground?
Yeah, they were overground. They were overground, Okay, I think there were there were, there were local there a couple of dynamics. There are a bunch of local environmental groups that weren't happy with the overground transmission lines. And there were also I mean, I'll pull it put it on
some of the transmission developers. I'm not going to mention names, but they didn't come in and get participation early and often enough in a way that the benefits of this project could be shared by those who were going to see the wires, you know what I mean.
Yeah, So Bec was going to make money. So Quebec was going to make money, but they weren't going to be able to tap back tap.
Into the energy, yeah, or the or the utility that was building the American utility. Yeah, I got you share the benefits, share the profits with the communities along the way, have them have a seat at the table.
So that's got to be twenty years ago or fifteen years.
Ago, yeah, fifteen years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I know that there. I know we're all still working on trying to do that.
Okay, all right, So we got to take a break. Nine thirty News. I got callers. I want the callers to join the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I will ask the callers to ask questions, no speeches, just you know, ask questions. Just do what I've tried to do. Clearly, you you you know that I see this just a little differently than Dave does. But he's somebody who knows a lot about it, and I'm asking
questions that frankly, I don't know the answers to. We'll be back with Dave Cash, most recently the EPA administrator here in New England for the Biden administration. He worked for the Biden administration as the top EPA official here in New England right up until on January twentieth at high noon, when on January twentieth of this year, twenty twenty five until the inauguration of President Trump. And at that point everyone in the Biden administration had to have
submitted ice room letters of resignation or they whatever. That's how it goes when there is a transition of power. There was a complete transition of power. Join the conversation back on Nightside right after.
This, if you're on night Side with Dan Ray on w BAZ, Boston's news radio.
I have a lot of questions to ask my friend Dave Cash and again, he understands this a lot better than I do. I think I have some knowledge of it, but he's the expert. And so let's go to phone calls, and I want to incorporate as many callers as possible this hour. We don't often get a chance to talk about Again, we're we're talking about something that affects every one of us. If you if you've looked at your electric bill, you know that something has to change because
it's going in the wrong direction. Uh, you've heard me criticize the Department of Public Utilities who rolled over like puppy dogs in my opinion. Let me go to Tom tom Is in Brockton. Tom you first up with Dave Cash form EPA Regional administrator here in New England. Go ahead, Tom, okay.
Number one, New York State will not allow a natural gas pipeline to enter its state as well as exit. That is harming the rest of the six New England states. There's plenty of natural gas in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio, and Kentucky. All right, that's that's number one, number two, So.
Tom, do you a favorite? I just want to check with Dave okay, because I believe you. But but is that accurate? You know? Is that the problem?
I know the state.
I don't know the specifics about New York State, but I'm not going to argue that's time national gas stop.
Do you touch it to? Please? Tom? Tom be respect, Tom b respect Please.
I don't know what's going on in New York. Sorry, what can I tell you? I'm in New England. I don't know what's going on in New York. But I'm not doubting that there's plenty of natural gas. I'm not doubting that.
So he's not saying that. What he's saying is that New York will not permit me.
I know, is not allowing gas to come through. I get that. I'm just saying I don't know that. That's all I don't know, Sir Tom accept Come on.
Man, you're involved in the energy energy sector of the New England States. You should know that. Okay, I digress. Now the next thing, as far as solar energy, that's all well and good. I installed a five thousand watt solar system in my house in Brockton back in two thousand and eleven. The system, not including the labor and the materials it costs for the twenty four solar pans,
animals and the inverter twenty to twenty two thousand dollars. Now, I got an eighty six hundred dollars credit because of the Obama administration for my federal taxes to pay for part of that. If I were to take out a calculator and multiply that out at a five percent interest rate over twenty years, that would be one hundred and four approximately one hundred and forty five dollars a month. Now, at the time in my house in Brockton, I was
paying seventy five to eighty five dollars a month. I don't have any heavy utilities here, yeah, right, no gas range. So solar energy is not a panacea. Solar power can augment the power grid, the cleanest power that we have that can generate massive quantity of electricity that do not create greenhouse gases. And I do believe in man made climate change from carbon You do know what the answer to that is. It's hydro electric as well as nuclear.
Nuclear power does not create greenhouse gases? Am I right? Am I wrong? You are correct? Okay, So why is it when I listen to progressives in this state tell me that, oh, well, China will eventually catch up the United States. I'm going to eye the EW retired electrician I've worked on coal burner power plants and Harris in Lumberport, West Virginia, where we put scrubbers on those power plants in the late eighties. China does not put scrubbers on
their power plants. They're well over at eleven hundred active power plants and continuing to build coal fired power plants. That doesn't include the rest of the world that they're not mandating they put that stuff on there.
Hey, Tom, get you get to a question please.
So so, so the question is, so if we sacrifice the United States? Uh, energy policy to stop climate change and the rest of the world doesn't. How is that going to help out man made climate change?
That's a good question.
Go ahead, that's a great question.
That's a great question when we see the dynamics.
Whoa, whoa, Hey Tom, Tom, do me a favor you you asked you, you had a three minute question. Please don't interrupt him as he starts to give an answer. You're a better gentleman than that.
Tom.
Go ahead, Dave, thank you.
Uh. Yeah, it's a great question. It's one that you know has the doubled the United States for a long time. But I feel like if we are expanding our use of things like solar in the way that you describe it, it's not going to be a panacea, certainly not here in the Northeast. Other parts of the country. It can provide way more capacity than it can here. Keeping nuclear and even expanding it, which in fact we did in
the Biden Administrative ainistration. We invested in new nuclear technologies, safer nuclear technologies, expanding nuclear, bringing hydro resources that we have we were just talking about before the break from Canada. That makes a huge amount of sense, and moving to the real industrial scale, particularly in New England is offshore wind. And then we become the leaders in both the development of the technology and the innovation so that the rest of the globe can be our marketplace, so that we
can sell these technologies. We don't have to buy them from Europe, which is where we get all our offshore wind technology right now. And that's the vision that I think that many have. That this is a long term vision of moving the United States into a clean energy future that will be cleaner air, less climate change, growth of green jobs, innovation, which is what America has always been great about. So that's that's that's my answer to that.
And then you know, then China, hopefully then China will see by the way, China just surpassed Tesla in electric vehicle use because in electric vehicles sales, because they know they have to clean up their cities. You know, I've seen the pictures of Beijing and what it looks like on an awful day, and so they're moving. You know, why are we letting them clean?
Let me get here before we go to break tom go ahead.
Yeah, So what you're telling me is that we have to put our faith in China, which is the world's biggest pollute the United States that has gone down on a pollution Please, and don't peel on my legs. Tell me it's raining.
Come on, Tom, please, Tom, let's have it.
I want it honest. I want someone to be frank with me for a change. I don't need someone from Harvard Square, Cambridge.
Good enough, Tom, I'm going to end it right there. Thanks very much, Tom for the call. I think you've been too disrespectful to my guests, and that's not like you. We'll take a break, Dave and right we'll be right back on night Side with a couple of more calls. And I ask simply for polite conversation. If that's too much to ask, then I find another talk show. Six.
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Let's get right back to the phone, so we'll go to Mark and Saugus. Mark, you're next on Nightside. Please be polite, ask a couple of questions and go right ahead.
Hi, Dann Mark from Saugus, Sir, I have a couple of questions about wind turburns. Why have to be so big to use smaller ones? Say you're on land the ocean. Seems like they need an awful lot of maintenance, like a boat. Always have to work on them and fix them. And there's something that's going to rot away and fall off in the ocean.
Yeah, that's the that's the state as highways, but they don't in the state.
The state owns land in between the highways, like we do with the prison down in Denham.
Mm hmm, okay, so let's give me, give me a chance to respond. Marks two great.
Those are two great questions. And I am not an engineer, but my understanding is that as the blades get bigger, they're more efficient. In particularly offshore where the wind blows hard, they're more efficient and the whole unit becomes more efficient, so it can produce a lot more electricity for the amount of material that's used.
And so.
You know, when offshore technology started developing, it could really take advantage of the big, wide open space to make them really large. On land, yes, they are smaller, except they're getting larger too. But the ones like we've seen, you know, I remember being around when and I think they might still be there. On the on Boston City Hall, a bunch of small ones were put up, and I think at the airport. They had some too. They're okay, but they're really you know, they don't produce the kind
of output that you need. So essentially, for wind turbines, you know, bigger is better and they capture more wind and convert more of it into electricity. Your other point, go ahead, Sorry, I'm just gonna say the other point is there are a lot of states that are trying to be creative about state land federal land that can
be used in those creative ways. In fact, one of the things when I was first in the Patrick administration, we looked at the turnpike and you might note when you when you go by, I think it's maybe sinateic on one one of the early when you're heading west out of Boston, there's some solar panels that are on the on the burn that's right next to the service station there. And you know, those are popping up more and more and more as folks are realizing, hey, we
could do this. And I know there are a lot of towns that are now covering like parking lots over their libraries and municipal buildings to take advantage of that land that can be turned into energy.
Why Mark Mark Cover both the questions.
Yeah, I mean I think I think they should try like put them in the mediums of the highways and maybe well we got some great hills.
We've got great hills in the Berkshires. If you go to put them awhere, put them out in the Berkshires and run the streetline.
See what happens.
All right? Okay, Hey, Mark from Zaga is great calls. Thank you very much. Thanks and gentlemen, thanks, good night. Who we go to gym in Kansas City, Jim.
Go right ahead, Dan, Hey, thanks for taking my call. Would be how you've been fantastic? Okay, hey, uh okay, I'm not gonna I was gonna ask you what happened if you heard about what happened to Big Bird, but no, I gotta be respectful. So hey, look at uh have you ever been up two hundred feet on the outside of a structure?
I I I actually have climbed up to the top of one of the wind turbines that's on the military base on Cape Cod and it was extraordinary. That was amazing.
Yeah.
Well, okay, I guess what I'm kind of wondering is, who are you going to get to work on these things?
That's a great question. And here's and here's something I do know a little bit about this because we had some federal funding that was part of the Inflation Reduction Act that was going to workforce development and training. And I met a guy down in New Bedford and like four or five years ago, he was down on his luck.
He had lost a couple of jobs. He was really good with the hands, and then he entered one of these training programs that then was a pipeline into the steel workers Union, where he exactly did what you're talking about. His job now is to climb up these huge poles out in the ocean to do whatever maintenance is required. And so at least here in the Northeast, there's like a huge opportunity to have workforce development and job growth, particularly in these ports that have been hard hit and
are on hard economic times. So their future is about being jobs too.
Wow, that's a great question.
Hey, Jim, that is a fabulous question. They couldn't pay me enough, Jim, I don't know about you.
Well, that's see, that's what I'm saying. I'm the kind of guy that'll climb up there. I've done high rise work before, and I'll do it, but you've got to pay the right amount of money, and I doubt seriously whether you can come up with that kind of cabbage.
All right, fair enough in here, Thanks Jim, great question, great question. Thanks good. Let's go to Mike and Salem'm gonna get you and also Walter in from Limits to go ahead, Mike.
Hey, how's it going.
Dan doing great? We got a couple of minutes for you. You go right ahead. What's your comment to question from my guest Dave Cash?
I just I just got a question. You know, they're talking about nuclear being you know, clean and all this, but what do they do with the nuclear waste when it's done?
You know what I mean?
I mean, how.
Clean is is nuclear? If you know there's waste, same thing with any other.
You know.
So I think we should put them on rocket ships and send them out to like Jupiter. You guys are laughing. I'm serious, No.
I hear you.
I watched on on YouTube. They're like burying that stuff on the ground. But it's like how I mean, how long.
No one wants and no one wants it? No one wants it. They want they buried in places like Utah down some mountain.
Or whatever, Mike, Mike, that question is like the sixty four it's like the sixty four billion dollar question. And it goes back to Tom's point earlier. And I didn't get to answer this, but that is that that's the It doesn't cause you know, climate change, but it does have this nuclear waste problems which hasn't really really been solved yet, and they're trying to develop new technologies. Again this administration, by the administration invested in that. But that's
a it's a very good point. And maybe you're also thinking about like the there's some toxic chemicals that are in batteries. And one of the interesting things that I know the Department of Energy. I was in an environment, not in energy, but I know that there's a big investment in how do you create a circular economy so that when the battery reaches the end of its life, you can take out the component parts and recycle it.
And because all those rare earth minerals are still in there, and they're coming up with ways to do that that are economical.
All right, my great question. I want to get one more in if I can. Okay, my friend, thank you so much. I have a great Mike uh, Walter and Levens Or Walter, you're the last of the hour, and go right ahead your own daycast.
My question is back in deval Patrick's administration, he passed or had a law passed, and just correct me if it really did happen that the electric companies are able to recoup any loss revenue from people installing so and when and whatnot at the houses without even going through the registerat you're requesting increases. Is that still going on.
Now? I'm not I'm not exactly sure what you're meaning, but so it was, it might be this and this
happened is happening all over the country right there. Electric utilities have an incentive fell as much electricity as they can, right because they get paid by the killowot hour for the electricity to go through their buyers, right, So they're not really going to want a homeowner to reduce their energy use, so they're not going to be too helpful on the energy efficiency side, even though it would help
the homeowner, they would lose money. So many states have put together these kind of plans where they don't recoup all of it, but they would recoup some so that they have an incentive to participate in helping the homeowners, you know, save money, because that's what this is. I've got to be all about. It's got to be about helping the customer lower their rates, lower their bills, not
be hit by a winter like this. So I think that was I don't know the specifics, but there are a lot of plans that have incentives for the companies to benefit, to have an incentive to make sure that their customers use energy efficiency things. I mean, that's that, and then everybody.
Back when it was passed, I remember reading a nautical in the local newspaper and I killed myself for not saving it.
But it was like, you know, I'm.
All right, we got it. Hey, Walter, I hate to do this to you, but you called late and we're now flat up against the ten o'clock news.
So thanks for raising that issue going to that law.
So we will. Thanks Walter, I appreciate it very much. Some good calls, challenging calls, David, more than hell your own, as always, I appreciate it. We got to do this again because there's a whole we only scratch the surface tonight. Okay, let's agree.
With you, and you know we got we got Earthstake coming up in April, maybe that would be a good time to do it. End of April.
Yeah, maybe maybe a little later than that, you know, but let me be the first to wish you a happy Earth Day. Okay, that's important.
Thank you, Dan. It's always a pleasure to be on this show. I love hearing the questions from your listeners. Their sharp, they're interesting, they're intelligent, they're just like, get to the heart of what these issues are, even if they get a little hot under the collar.
That's okay, Yep, yep, Tom. Tom was one of my more callers, but I think it stepped over the line a little bit, but we'll leave that one go again. You and I don't see the world the same way, but I think we have good conversations, which is all I want to love with. All Right, David, thank you soon, Thank you again, my friend. We'll talk soon. When we get back. We're going to continue our conversation about this now famous signal chat kerfuffle. I think it's a fascinating story.
The Democrats are trying their best and the Republicans are trying to brush it under the rug. I'd love to know what you think. We'll be back on Night's side right after this