It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Constance News Radio.
All right, welcome back, everybody. We are going to talk first hour tonight about college tuition. As some of you, I'm sure probably heard over the weekend or perhaps read in today's newspapers that the University of Massachusetts, the president of you mass Marty Me and he was interviewed over the weekend on WCVB what they call us a A
it's an interview show. I called on the record and he said me and said, President Mean said during COVID, we didn't increase two years in a row, but we're trying to make sure that if there is an increase in tuition, it's below the rate of inflation. He didn't confirm a rate, but told WCBB that he expects it will come in it under three percent this year. Now that sounds, you know, I guess, reasonable in terms of
the amount of inflation that we've all been exposed to. However, it just so happened, as luck would have it, that over the last few days, Massachusetts state employee salaries have been released, and at the top of that pyramid is the University of Massachusetts, which has over thirty thousand employees. That's a lot of people. You could almost fill Fenway
Park with that. Now, according to the statistics that have been released for the most recent year, which is twenty twenty four, last year, the average salary in the UMS system was fifty five and eighty five dollars. Okay, that is that's pretty reasonable when you think about it. The average salary in the Massachusettstate Police it's one hundred and eight thousand dollars. That's the average salary. The average salary in the Massachusetts MBTA, it's eighty four thousand dollars. So
the average salaries at UMass are pretty reasonable. However, when you get to the specifics, and I'm not looking to embarrass people here and I certainly don't want to get into names, but the salary UH is the head basketball coach at UMass Amherst and that is about one point eight million dollars, actually one point seven million, UH seventy one million, seven hundred and seventy eighty nine hundred and nineteen dollars. This is he's the most most well paid
individual UH in the in the system. But then you get to others. The chancellor at U mass Medical Center million and a half. And again I think all of those those two salaries are people who are, you know,
in their fields, probably they have the ability to demand that. However, when you start to look down some of the different salaries, as highlighted today in a Globe, in a in a Herald editorial, you have I don't know, the chief People's Strategy officer whatever that is four hundred and fifty three thousand dollars. I have no idea what that would be. There are lots and lots of people who make chancellors do well at you Mass six, earning between a half
a million and six hundred and fifty thousand dollars. A trio of chancellor professors earned between two hundred and two hundred and twenty three thousand dollars. Now, again, there are individuals who you know, just by virtue of their status in anything, can command top salaries. But when I looked at this list of salaries last week, it was extraordinary the number of people who were making more than the president president me and I think he was making eight
hundred thousand. There were several people above him, and several people very close to him. So the question is, and again this is the Herald today makes point that the State House News reported last summer that U MASS enrollment was projected to decrease by a third of a percent in this fiscal year, and apparently there is a downward
trend lower birth rates. And U MASS is a really good system, whether it's U MASS Amherst the flagship, or whether it's you Mass, Boston, U Mass, Lowell, U Mass Dartmouth, all the different you know, state universities. But the amount of money that we are spending here probably not as much as being spent at some schools like Ohio State or Michigan State, where where you know, they don't have
as much competition. There are private colleges in those states, but here in Massachusetts we have an abundance of private colleges. I mean, some of the best in the world. Harvard, Mit, Boston College, Boston University, just to name a few toughs. The list goes on, and it's just the question is how much do we need to spend on education and
at what point? At what point There's a lot of people who have had to tighten their belts, family budgets, small businesses, but at the University of Massachusetts it doesn't seem to me to be a lot of belt tightening going on. So what I want to do is just open up the phone lines and see what you think is fair. There are just a lot of people in
the article. The companion article is written by Matthew menscrom in The Herald Today is there's a lot of information and specifics again about things like the head football coach making nine fifty which included a sixty seven thousand dollars buy it when he was fired in November. You know, as they said Marty Mehen was around eight hundred thousand
and eight thirty seven to be exact. The university system will begin waiving the cost of tuition for families making less than seventy five thousand dollars annually this coming year. And me And said, under his watch, he's seen the amount of need based financial aid increased by seventy three percent, which is great. But when you have this many people making that amount of money, you have to wonder if there are not some some simple budget cuts that could
be instituted. So I'm going to open it up. If you're a UMass student and want to defend, or a UMass graduate and I'm a UMass Boston graduate, because I graduated from Boston State College a long time ago. But I'm proud of the system, and I'm proud of the people who I know who work there. But when I looked at all of these salaries, I just thought, WHOA, that's a lot of salaries in the in big range
half a million dollars or more. For it looks to me like positions that are relatively undefinable, I guess would be the one word. I describe it as six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty six months, seven nine three, one, ten thirty, Your comments, your observations. We are back on Night's side right after this shortbreak.
Now after Dan Ray live from the Window World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
So just looking at at some of again, I'm not looking to embarrass people with names, Okay, that's not my point. The head basketball coach out at UMass is getting a total of one point eight million dollars. Okay, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give you all this one point well,
one point eight hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. The head of the the University Medical System, the Chancellor uh and senior vice president of Health Sciences at the University of Massachusetts one million, five hundred and ninety eight thousand dollars UH. The Executive Deputy Chancellor provo In Dean of the University of Massachusetts System one point one million, one hundred forty nine thousand dollars. They head football coach nine
hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The Executive Vice Chancellor of Innovation and Business Development the University of Massachusetts System eight hundred and sixty eight thousand dollars. It is only then that we get to the president of the university, former Congressman Marty Meehan, who receives boy this is eight hundred and thirty seven thousand dollars. Then the Athletic Director of the UMass System seven hundred and twenty six thousand dollars.
The Executive Vice President Vice Chancellor Administration and Finance six hundred and seventy eight thousand dollars, The Executive Vice President for Health Consulting the University of Massachusetts System six hundred and sixty five thousand dollars. The Chancellor of the University of Massachusetts System six hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars. The Chancellor of the University of Massachusetts System, six hundred
and fifty seven thousand dollars. Of the University of Massachusetts System Athletic Coach six hundred and forty two thousand dollars, the University of Massachusetts System. The Vice Chancellor of University Advancement. I have no idea what that means. Five hundred and eighty five thousand dollars. The University of Massachusetts System, Chancellor, University of Massachusetts System, five hundred and seventy two A lot of chancellors. The Dean of the Management, University of
Massachusetts System, five hundred and sixty three thousand dollars. The Deputy EVC Facilities Management, University of Massachusetts System. Five hundred and fifty seven thousand dollars, the EVC, University of Massachusetts Emeritus. No idea what that means. Five hundred and forty nine thousand dollars. The University Massachusetts System, Director of the Institute of Applied Life Sciences five hundred and forty nine thousand dollars.
This is the all the employees up until now U mass Whatever the number of employee here would be the tenth employee. I'm not sure, Philip Bang, who's the MBTA General Manager four hundred excuse me, five hundred and forty six thousand dollars. Then we have a University of Massachusetts distinguished professor. Has to be very distinguished. Five hundred and seven thousand dollars. The Chancellor the University of Massachusetts System. Sounds like we've gone through a bunch of chancellors already.
Four hundred and ninety four thousand dollars. Also close to a half a million dollars. The senior vice president of the University of Massive Boy, there's a lot of titles. Four hundred and ninety eight four hundred and eighty nine thousand dollars. The Director Executive I'm not, I guess not executive director. The director Executive, University of Massachuset System. Four to seventy six thousand dollars. Here's one. The Chair of
the Department Tenured in Tract, University of Massachusetts System. Six hundred and twelve thousand dollars. Uh, it just goes on and on and on, and now we're getting into some some other Most of them are U mass folks. Professor tenured track. If you get to be a professor with a tenure track, you're five hundred and eighty seven thousand. It's an amazing system. The ice hockey coach out there
gets four hundred and fifty nine thousand dollars. They have a chief medical examiner out there, four hundred and fifty four thousand dollars. Oh, that could be a state that's not necessarily associate with the with the school. That's a state. Yeah, that's a state office. So it goes on and on. An assistant professor, here's a good one. An assistant professor, not a full professor. And assistant professor four hundred and
fifty three thousand dollars. I just again, it's now we're into the professors and they're all it looks like, well a lot of them are in the four hundred and forty thousand dollars range. It says, I, I don't know if that's interim, if it stands for international, I have no IDEA Senior vice president of academic and Student Affairs four hundred and forty two thousand dollars. So on and on and on. It goes professor four thirty three. So the question, I guess is are these salaries. It's it's
just not one or two or five or six. It's a lot these salaries. Are they acceptable? Let me go to Nico in mathuen Nico. I appreciate you calling in. How are you tonight?
How are you mister ra. Nice to see, nice to hear it, Nice to talk to you again.
Nice to talk with you again. Now you are you still in school or have you graduated?
I am no. I actually I'm a comment sophomore at BABS. And that's actually why I called a great.
School at BABS. And I'll say it's a it was a top rated school. I thought of you and I saw a few weeks ago. I think that in terms of the in the the starting salaries that graduates make from different colleges, they track and I think Batson is the number one school in the country.
Yeah, we are up there. That's that's one of the chief statistics that we like to float amongst them.
I think, yeah, proud of that one. Yeah, go ahead.
No, So I think now this is I mean, UMass Amhurst is a very large school, so I don't I think that. I think they have a student population of around twenty thousand. Just for clarity, I'm at my campus is around three thousand. So I think when when you're talking about the the sports. I don't know about basketball and hockey, but I know football is a D one program which drastically increases the price in terms of in
terms of the players. I think I'll high state who is going to the championship, going to the NASTER the College Football Playoffs championship against Notre Dame soon or if they have played already, they spent ten million dollars on the team of players themselves. They're getting paid to play apparently.
Yeah, well that's a new development. But you're you're correct, Yeah, yeah, you're correct.
So I think I think that the the plus they have to hire, they they run the football program, they come up with everything. I think that a lot of the I don't want to say waste, I'm talking about the government, but there is definitely you were mentioning former Congressman Maham, I believe.
That's how.
Yeah, yeah, and I think realistic from my own from my I mean, the president of my school's name is Steven Spinelli. He's the he's the he's a co founder or a founder of Jiffy Lube. And realistic or yeah, so realistically, I mean, I don't know his if he I couldn't write out his duties for him. But I mean he represents the school and tries to get us
into different places. So I think that's that's the reason that I think mister Hanna is probably compensated for that because he has to know, since we are at state school, you have to know you have to have the political connections. To my understanding, you probably have to have political connections to get the funding for things you need. But I would be I mean, I I don't know what my school pays for. Is this just out of curiosity? Is this including benefits?
Is this I think that salary. I'm sure there are benefits on top of it, but these are the salaries good they've broken down. I rounded the figures to you know, one point eight million, but it's like one point eight I mean yeah, it's very very scidentific.
So yeah, I don't, I don't. I mean, I will say you also, and I say, this is somebody who is who's going to apply there if I didn't, if I didn't get accepted for as an early decision to my current school, The Edinburgh School of Business at ums Amhurst is very very selective, So I mean, the I forget the chances that you were mentioning, I probably would expect that considering the amount of money that they're trying to invest to get that school up to par I
think that that's probably well worth. Really, the stuff that gets you is tenure, and I think depending on what you're trying to cut, it's also the amount of students that they have. If you have a class of like three hundred kids. I don't know how they're paid specifically, but I think that there's also some stuff in there that you might if we're gonna if you wanted to talk about belt tightening, I think that there's definitely things
in there. Plus all the the more the more letters you add onto your name in the fact, as it was explained to me by a faculty member, is how you get a better pay. I mean, it's how many I totally get that.
I totally get that you have to have a master's degree at least or maybe a PhD. I get all of that. It's it's just that I don't even know what the tuition is at you Mass at this point, but it just seems to me that there's a lot of not only at you Mass but at any college around the country. Uh that that there's there's so much money that has been pumped into education by the federal government.
A lot of people take loans, but the people who then have to pay back the loans or guys like you, are students like you who graduate and you come out of school with a nice with a good degree, but you also come out with a bill of whatever it is.
One hundred Yeah, I think. I think that also what what colleges are paying for. And this is also this is kind of just a reflection about how how I view the matriculation process.
It is.
It is a network. It's a it's a it's a it's a networking experiment, especially for business from where I come from. You know, business instincts are not something you can really teach. You know, you can you can teach account and you can teach some manners of finance. But I think that depending on what you're going for, it's who you're connected to. And that's that's kind of I think what school if you're asking me personally, I think
that's what schools are paying for. And that's why it's going up so much, because having inns in these specific industries is just it's well, it is valuable.
I guess, but I just look at it and again, I I hold a state.
College, I cannot.
I can't to a different standard. I mean, if someone wants to start a private college and they're gonna rely on now, again, the private colleges also get benefits of all the different you know, federal infe usion of money, and so it's just it gets out of reach for a lot of people. Someone suggested on Friday night, but we did the twentieth Hour, that we do more topics
of how people can get into the trades. And we're going to do that because I am a firm believer that the college is not for everyone, and it is for a lot of people, but not for everyone, and that a lot of people can become you know, you know, plumbers, electrician, roofers, HVAC masons. There's all sorts of art of things that can be done that do not require and you can still. I had a guy called the other night on Friday
night who said he was a tower climber. He climbs up the big towers you see, the TV towers, And I mean he was telling me that he has educated himself, not necessarily through college, but by taking individual courses here on individual courses. Nikola, I got to let you run here. I'm way past my break, but I always lov when you call, and I hope you're going to do great. There's no question. Thanks YouTube banks. All right, we're going to take a break, take a quick news break here.
Feel free to join the conversation. Is college just too darn expensive? I mean, I remember the guy ran for mayor in New York a few years ago because the rent was too damn high. That was his platform. I think colleges have become, uh just extraordinarily expensive and out of reach of a lot of people. Uh And and they're they're they're tough. Well again, I think if you look at the amount of money that people are coming out now with loans, and you see it right here,
someone's paying these administrators. And I suspect that many of these administrators are not interfacing with students, they're not teaching classes, but they're getting paid a lot of money. We'll be back on Nightside six one, seven thirty six one seven, nine, ten thirty. Coming back on Nightside.
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
So we're talking about the global actually was the one that broke this story. The state payroll climbed in the year of twenty twenty four ten point twenty six billion dollars. That's an annual increase of nearly ten percent.
Uh.
That's that's better than inflation. So if you worked at for the for the Cormewalth of Massachusetts, chances are that your salary increase outpaced inflation, which is good. Roughly seventeen percent of the state's payroll, about one point seven six billion dollars went to the UMAs system. MBTA was second at eight hundred and seventy nine million dollars. Trial court was third at six forty seven State police fourth at four sixty four million. For yeah, four hundred and sixty
four million point four to seven million dollars. So the question that I have is we working for the government seems like good jobs? Okay. I want to turn the question around and find out from people if they think the price of a college degree has simply got too high, that there has to be an adjustment here. To send your son, your daughter, or your children off to college
can be extraordinarily expensive for the average family. Now, I know that there are programs, and we've talked about that on the show before, But are any of you out there thinking that, hey, it would be better to learn a trade, get a good high school diploma, learn a trade, and maybe self educate. People can read books and and if they become you know, there's always your sort as of electricians, plumbers, Mason's roofers. Now some of you may have done it. Feel free to call six seven ten
thirty six seven nine ten thirty. Then we'll go to Robert and Wellesley. Robert, welcome, how are.
You sir, Good evening, Dan, Thanks for taking on this topic. Sure well, And in brief, I am this sounds harsh, but I think that higher education in some ways has become an expensive rocket and needs to be reformed. And I think this has been handled concretely when a comparison has been made between secondary school education and jociary school education or college that they're if tuitions are compared, there really isn't a good reason for there to be the
tremendous disparity. And I think that so, in other words, things could be done less expensively concretely. And the other thing is that there has I think with your discussion about trades is important. I think there's become an unnecessary disparity between education secondary and tertiary level of education and UH work and and UH and applying education in work.
There is a I think a misconception that what you learn in school is something that you have to do to get a job, but then you don't actually use it when you when you get into the in the job you need to Some employers may mistakenly say forget all that and and just you know, do the job they So I think the uh, the I forgot exactly how I wanted to express this.
But the.
Example would be turning scientists into bureaucrats and then having them function more as bureaucrats than as scientists forgetting their training and huge mistakes can occur in A centerpiece of that was the Shuttle disaster, where scientific efferencials were not being followed and it had a tremendous consequences. And that's just a symbolic example. I feel that I did do these comments feel like they're relevant to the discussion.
Relevant to you. Well, when you went to the Shuttle disaster, you're talking about the uh, not not the flight that on re entry burned up, but you're talking about the flight that took off from Florida and the old rings fail, uh and blew up as we were watching it. You go off into space. Is that is that the.
Disaster that's the one I'm referring to.
Yeah.
Yeah, Well, I think that there was some question about the overnight temperatures. There was a January lift off, and what I forget for the moment what the final result was, but I think that they that the o rings on
the on the shuttle failed. Yeah. I just would rather simplify it a little bit, Robert and say, hey, is a college degree worth You come out of college these days and you could have one hundred and fifty two hundred thousand dollars or more ode and you may have a tough time getting a job with a salary which will help you live as well as pay off those loans.
And I think that you know, you talk about sort of the military industrial complex, I think there's an educational industrial complex, and I think it's a little lot of balance right now, and that if your son or daughter comes out and decides that they want to become a plumber or electrician or roofer, I mean those are good jobs. There's a lot of skill involved in those jobs, and those jobs. They have to be trained and retrained every couple of years to make sure they're staying up to date.
All of that, they're compensated well, and they don't have to pay off student loans. And I just think that more people over time are going to start, hopefully beginning to look at some of those jobs and say, hey, if I come out with a degree in archaeology from a great college, what am I going to do with that? I mean, there's there's no great demand for people with the archaeology degrees.
That's your comments about I'm sorry, your comments self education or are very are very relevant, pertinent. I agree with them and I and there's the saying they used to be saying. In the final analysis, all education is self education. What formal education is an advantage in that in that it teach, it makes the person better equipped to do self education.
And fair enough, I'll accept that, Robert. I'm that's my break here. I don't mean to interact your train of thought, but you made some interesting points. I appreciate your call as always. Thank you have a right take a very quick break. Coming right back on night side. We're talking about the cost and the value of college and university education, and you look at this payroll and you say, boy, there's a lot of folks out there making a lot of money. And I frankly don't know what a lot
of these positions are. But once you get one of those jobs at that level, uh, you you could take a glide glide glide path to a very comfortable retirement with that type of employment. Back on Nightside after this.
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World Nightside Studios on w b Z, the news radio.
Well, let's see what the rest of our call is said. Let me go to Joseph in Middleton. Joseph next on Nightsider. Right ahead, we lost Joseph. Okay, Joseph, call back. We'll try to get you on. What happens is a lot of times people are waiting and they're listening on speakerphone, and of course when they go to to reconnect, they lose the connection. So, Joseph, you waited a long time, Feel free to join us. Six one seven four ten thirty six one seven nine. Tom in West Virginia, Tom, welcome back.
How are you you know?
I Camember time and Billy Bulger were tired and he was going to look like two hundred grand a year working for you mass. I don't know if he's and I remember thinking at that time that's unbelievable. But you really should do an exposies of the people of two masked universe. It's un.
Tom, hold on for a seconds reason we're having Tom. We're having trouble with your with your call here. Let me Rob trying to clean up your line. I think the controversy that you're referring to with Bulger was he was getting a pension for like two hundred and twenty thousand dollars. I think that his salary far exceeded that in actuality. But Robo tried to clean up your line. In the meantime, let me go to Debbie and Quincy. W you're going to get you in here. Go right ahead,
you're next a night side. Hi.
I am an actual union painter, and I've been in the trade for forty seven years.
Good for you.
And I got a college degree at forty two, okay, And I have a daughter who actually went to college and came out with one hundred thousand dollars and now is a union electrician.
Good for her because she.
Couldn't find a job that was paying a substantial amount of money so she can play her student loan and live on her own.
Yeah, you're exactly the caller that I was hoping to hear from tonight, because you got your college degree and worked as a painter, probably a pretty good one. And your daughter is now working as an electrician to help pay off for her college loans. Right.
Well, mom and dad helped her pay that. And I also have a daughter that went to college with a large degree amount of money that you know, for her degree, and not even work in the trade she went. She went into graphic design, and she works at a dispensary
making lousy money and just barely makes her rent. And with the college degree that she had, she's done nothing with it and can't simply do anything with it because with graphic designs, it just the work is an outfit that pays that kind of money.
Yeah, well, Debbie, I think you're the listener I was talking to tonight. I mean, you figured it out. Your daughter took the more traditional route and she's paying through the nose. Where did you get your college degree? If I could, if I could be so bold to.
Ask, I got it at Marshall University, with the help of my union. I am a part time instructor. Frendice instructor helped and safety instructor that I was apprentice instructor for a while, and my union actually helped pay my degree.
And you said it was Marshall University.
Yeah, I was Huntington West Virginia.
Oh yeah, I'm familiar with Marshall University.
Yeah.
I think that they had a horrific plane crash many many years ago which wiped out their football team, if I'm.
Not mistaken, and the unions with they have I'm sorry, Yes, I am familiar with that.
Are you are you from that neck of the woods or were you able to do this?
No?
No, I'm a dchess. I did it remotely, and once a year we had to go down and do classes down there on site. And the union is one to help.
Good for you. That's great to hear. I'm going to do more on this sort of topic. I really am. And I'm so glad you listened. And I'm so glad you called because most people also.
I'm sorry, but I was going to say, is I work right now? My second job is I work full time instructor for what they call the building Pathways Boston, which helps young students and young adults get into the trade. It was actually shotted by Maddy Walsh thirteen years ago.
Well, do be a favorite, Do be a favorite, stay in the line, give you a call dur in the week, and I'd like to get more and I get some representative of that group and come on and talk about it.
Okay, Oh wonderful, they would love that.
Yeah, Rob, will give you my direct line and give me a call and give leave me a daytime phone number, either of you or a person I can talk to with that group.
Fair enough, sad enough, thank you, thanks that.
I'd be appreciate. Okay, hope we got Tom back. Tom, you were breaking up for us before. Go right ahead.
Yeah, I've got satellite internet down here. My apologies. No, it's funny that she mentioned Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia. I worked at a local three seventeen, West Virginia, and their football teams called the Thundering Herd, but I wrote for the Mountaineers. My mom went to Morgantown back in the early fifties. Anyway, what I was saying with regards the salaries that the administrators at UMass get is just unbelievable.
And if I go back to the early eighties, I had a girlfriend that went to the old UMass Lowell. Her tuition back then with room and board was twenty five hundred a year, and I would say that now it's called you mass l it's a very good engineering school. I would say, now it's probably at least forty grand a year, and it's unbelievable, you know, And that's a
state school. And I don't know, I you know, I do remember my senior year in high school, I had a math teacher that was talking about how at some point Yale University would go from about five thousand dollars a year to nine thousand. And I really wasn't paying attention because I went to technical school after high school.
But I did a friend of mine that was going to Boston College back then on the fall of seventy eight, and I don't know if it was a semester or for the year, it was fifty four hundred dollars, and I just about choked when he told me that. I went to Coin Electrical School, you know, in the corner of mass Aven Newbury to be essentially trained for electrician and I think I paid eighteen or nineteen hundred dollars back then.
Yeah, but that would be the same.
I don't know.
I'm sure the cost or equivalent. And you got a career out of it. A lot of people who went to great colleges ended up in different careers. That's again, It's just my point is it's different paths for different people. That's all simple, simple as that. Yeah, absolutely, I'm up against it. I know your time next time, but unfortunately, your your connection is fortunately your connection is much better now than it was before. We'll talk soon, okay, yep,
take care, Thanks Tom, talk to you, bye bye. Okay, we come back and take a break and to talk with John Cesto. John wrote a very interesting piece in the Boston Globe this morning in the Business section that talked about the uh people are still leaving Massachusetts, but not as at higher rate as it was a year or so ago. Uh So, I guess we can say something positive about that. But we'll see what John Shasto has to say. Coming back on Night's side right after this