It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston Radio.
Thank you very much to call. I want our audience to know for sure that they will be well served by us tonight. This program will be much more exciting, much more satisfying, and much more informative than any football game anywhere in the United States of America tonight. And I wasn't sure what Nicole was talking about, but don't even worry about that game, because it matters. Not. What matters is all the great guests we have for you
here on Nightside. My name is Dan Ray, and I will take you all the way until midnight, and we will talk with some great guests in the first hour, and we'll talk later on tonight with the wz car guys from ten until midnight, which will give you an opportunity to get all of your automotive questions answered. And then we're going at nine o'clock talk about that horrific attack that some of the guards up at the state
prison in Lancaster, Massachusetts were objected to last night. We'll get to all of that, but first I want to remind you that Rob Brooks is back in the control room and he will take care of you when we do get time to take phone calls. There are no phone calls during the first hour, however, and the reason for that is we have four great guests. We're going
to start off with Professor John Kelly. He is a professor at Endicott College, which happens to be one of my favorite colleges I think the most beautiful college campus in maybe all of the country, never mind certainly here in New England. Professor John Kelly, Welcome to Nightside.
How are you, hi, Dan, I'm very well, Thank you very much. That's a great I agree with you about our campus, a beautiful, beautiful place.
Well, it's also you know President Richard Wiley, or Dick Wiley as we knew him. I was very close with Professor Wiley actually delivered the commencement address at Endicott College in two thousand and nine. Yes, and I you know, I've been there on the campus many times. We've done some talk the votes up there during election seasons pre COVID, Yes, absolutely, gathered together unmasked. But so you're a psychology professor up there and you have been there, Rob tells me for
close to a couple of decades. So if I've met you at some point on campus.
I've seen you only you know in the audience. We have not personally met before. But yeah, it's great to meet you teleponically anyway.
Absolutely, So you are going to explain to us something called the no cibo effect. It's sort of the opposite of the plus ebo effect. You were quoted very prominently in an article in the Washington Post about a month and a half ago. And I think everybody knows what a placebo is. If why don't you give us the easy definition.
Of a placebo.
Because I think everyone knows what a placebo is, and I think that will set up the explanation of the no cebo very well if you don't.
Mind, well, sure, I mean, placebo really is just any kind of treatment it can be. Usually people think of it as a pill with really no active ingredient. It
could have sugar in it. More often it has cellulocin itch or something very inert that is used often in randomized control trials to determine whether the real drug actually works better than what would happen if the person takes the drug and has positive expectancies and expecting to do well even though they're not getting a real drug they think they might be, and they often show dramatic improvement. So that's a placebo effect essentially, and so it's.
All in the mind, it's not within the physical system.
Well, that's very interesting that you say. I mean that's the way we kind of think about it. The way I just describe it, it sounds like it's sort of all in your head, which makes one think, oh, it's not a real phenomenon. It's kind of fague and if it's for a period of time. That was the way it was thought about, But there has been a lot of research to show that there are real physic theological
changes that occur for people. And if you think about it, I think psychology, yes, it's something's happening in the mind. But the mind is, you know, is a part of the brain, a part of the body, so it's all connected, and so if you have a feel like you're doing better, there are actual physiological changes.
Sure, Okay, So a no Sebel effect is the flip side of it. This is not something that happens in regularly scheduled tests, but this is something that some of us go through. And why don't you explain it? What the no Sebel effect.
Is sure, and I would argue that we all experience this in one way or the other, both no cibo and placebo effects. I also will just say, just to preface this, that not only could this occur in reference to an inert treatment, you know, a sugar pill, but it can also occur with real treatments. That real treatments could be the effects of them, could be increased or
decreased through psychological mechanisms. But anyway, the no sebo effect, some people think about it as sort of the dark side of the placebo, the evil twin of placebo, And it's basically just the notion that if you take a treatment, even if it's a placebo, but even if it's a real treatment, and you hear about some negative side effects, that you may experience those side effects, maybe because the drugs causing it, but the no cbo effect would because
of this sort of mind body situation where you are thinking about you have a negative expectancy, and that produces the symptoms that we call the no cibo effect.
So this to me shows pretty clearly how powerful our minds are and how we can be I mean, some of us suffer from how closely Is this related to just people who are generally more anxious than other people. I don't know if there's been a study done, is there a correlation there.
Well, there's been a lot of search for who is the placebo responder, who is a no CIBO responder, And I would say, I'm sure that there's their variabilities and this sort of thing. But I think let me give an example of what you could consider a no CBO effect in a sense, Like an example of this would be if you are exercising. You know, it's hard for people sometimes they're working out, and if they're staring at the clock, you know, waiting for it to be over,
it's much more painful than if you distract yourself. If you're paying attention to a movie that's very engaging, the pain seems like it's less than it would otherwise be, even though you're experiencing the exact same sort of physiological challenge. So our mind has an effect, you know, depending on whether we're focusing on the pain.
You know, it's funny. I probably must be the exception to the rule because when I work out and I'm an elliptical guys, you stop eventually running and pounding knees and ankles, and you get to the elliptical, which is a great machine. I love the mathematics of the elliptical because I don't know if you're an elliptical guy yourself, but I.
Have used them quite a bit. I'm similarly to you. No more running and all stationary bike, ellipticals, that kind of stuff.
That's right. So, but but what I try to do is, Okay, what's my projection. I've gone, you know, ten minutes here, I'm gonna go twenty five, I'm gonna go thirty and when I change and I move the resistance up or whatever. Okay, how many? How many can I do more calories during this five minute period? All of that, and it's my mind stays active. I don't, you know, I don't put
your plugs in. I don't. I don't watch a movie, you know, just the gym that I work out, and it's a small gym, and there's no there's no TVs, there's no movies. So I keep my mind active, which helps the time go more quickly. But I do it by doing mental mathematical gymnastics, which.
Yeah, and you're but your your focus then is on the mental mathematical gymnastics, right, not on the pain itself. You're and in fact, you're you're kind of almost wanting to put yourself through more pain to achieve something. It's
like a runner, who's how do they, you know, keep going? Well, they have this goal in mind and their mind is focused on this and there it doesn't you know, the example of going and not thinking about it all, Like you know, a movie is one way to distract yourself or at least turn your attention edit to a different way.
Yeah, yeah, well, look, it's interesting. I didn't I had never heard of the nosibo effect. Based upon my conversation with you, this is an effect that's not new. It's been apparently around for a while, but this is the first big article that I've ever read on it. And you were quoted prominently in the Washington Post, and you've explained it really well for me and for my audience,
and so thank you very much. And it's always great to reconnect with Entercot College, which has the best in addition to the best landscape and views of the Atlantic Ocean, it also has the single best college student cafeteria, and I've been to a lot of them.
Of any truly astounding.
Yes, and that, of course that is the part of the legacy of doctor Wiley.
Absolutely a wonderful person. Yes, absolutely, yeah.
Well I look, next time i'm up that way, I'll stop.
I'll look for you. I'll make a point to shake your hand, come up to you. Thank you very much for I had.
An uncle named John Kelly, so we may somehow be related to you.
By the way, I think everyone has an uncle named John Kelly.
That's true. In this neck of the woods, it's fairly common.
Absolutely.
All right, thank you so much, professor.
You're welcome. Thank you.
I have a great night. Okay, So we were talking about the no seeble effect. Well we're going to kind of stay in the in the mind a little bit. We're going to talk with Richard Sema. He's a neuroscientist. We're getting pretty pretty psychological tonight here, a neuroscientist turned science journalist who writes the Brain Matters column for the Washington Post. So we're sticking with the Washington Post tonight, and he's going to talk about intellectual humility is for
learning and getting along with others. I like that. We'll talk to him right after this quick break here on Nightside.
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World Nightside Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.
Okay, so we talked about the no Seebele effect with Professor John Kelly of Endicott College. We now are delighted to welcome to the Nightside microphone Richard Seema. He's a neuroscientist turned science journalist who writes the Brain Matters column for The Washington Post. And intellectual humility is good for learning and getting along with others. I don't think anyone would argue with that, but let's give it a shot. Hi, Hi, Richard, how are you tonight?
Doing well?
How are you?
I'm doing great. So intellectual humility, it sounds like a good thing to have, and I think it is. I read this column. Explain to us how you get it? What percentages of people have any of it? And to have some of it? How do you keep it in this day and age.
Yeah, I mean, it's basically the acknowledgment that you know, no one, including ourselves, knows everything. We have limits to our knowledge or even our deepest hell beliefs can be valuable.
And just being.
Open to the fact that you know other people might know some things that you don't or that things that you believe maybe wrong. I think it's hard to.
You mean both you mean that both you and I are are fallible.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate, you know, But maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe you aren't valuable, very very likely.
Yeah, here's my ideal, Richard. I get to do a talk show four five nights away, four hours a night, and when I make a mistake on the show, I go out of my way fact particularly a factual mistake. I go out and to acknowledge it. I think that's really healthy.
Yeah, I agree, you know.
I just think that it's a good idea. It's tougher, I think when you're in personal relationships. So let's let's talk about, you know, factual fallibility and then which is pretty fine if you know, if you mentioned to me or I mentioned to you that that I'm delighted that we have forty eight states, and I have forgotten about the last time I look it up, it's easier to say, you know, Richie, you were right, I forgot. But what do you do? How do you develop this when you're
in a contentious conversation. If idea, say about politics, or maybe a personal matter with a member of your family. How how how do you back out of it gracefully?
What's the best I think? Yeah, I spoke with a bunch of experts who study intellectual humility, and you know, they told me that basically, it's it's it's helpful because it keeps you open to other people's perspectives. You're more likely to be empathetic to the fact that others have maybe different values or different things that you know they
find important to believe in. And yeah, this topic of you know, what happens in a politically contentious environment or conversation, which is very common these days, is like part of it is keeping in mind what your goal is for this conversation, Like is it about proving yourself right and you know, dominating another person in conversation or is it like, oh, you know, you're a family member that I still care about, even if we don't see eye to eye on any
like something that's important to both of us. But you know, I think what intellectual humility can give us is you don't go into a conversation like already you know, you know, set against someone like you you may believe you're right and you may have many reasons or any really good reasons, but you know you can, you know, be open to
that there's something that you might miss. It doesn't mean you have to change your mind, but means you have to at least give them an opportunity to not you know, just come in like swinging with all your rhetoric arguments.
Yeah, commit commit like and there's dare I say, like Hal Colgan?
Yeah, well I guess for Cogan that's your job and you can do it in that context. But yeah, like you know, take a moment where like what what do you want out of this? Like, you know, and.
That Richard, you sound like a really reasonable guy. I like to think you're fairly reasonable, but you sound much more reasonable than do you actually you the column, the article that you wrote was fascinating. Do you have you adopted that in your own life? I mean, and I'm not trying to be a wise guy when I asked.
That question, No, no, no, I think you've got to come.
To something like that. Naturally, don't you would you agree or no?
Well?
I think what's interesting is the research shows that yeah, you know, people are on a spectrum of how likely there are to be intill actually humble, but for different topics, like if you're looking at religion versus science, or you know, culture like best sports team. You know, people vary, right, Like some things, it's very easy to you know, acknowledge that, you know, the Boston Red Sox are, you know, like they're great, but maybe they're not the best. And but
that's harder for other people knowledge. I know, I know, I know, I did no, no, no. But but that's the thing, right, It's like there's certain places that we you know, maybe more susceptible to you know, not being open to other perspectives, but you know, even just keeping like the door is slightly cracked open.
You know what I love. I love the piece, but I loved the paragraph. And you probably can anticipate what I'm going to say to you. We're talking about it. A study in twenty nineteen of almost what almost twelve hundred subjects and one of the experiments I'm quoting from your column here so and acknowledging you had. One experiment asked participants to rake their familiarities with pieces of general knowledge, for example Napoleon. Crucially, however, in the experiment they also
mixed in fictitious items, for example, Queen Shattuck Murphy's last ride. Yeah, so they were people old Murphy's last ride. I learned about that in the seventh grade. That's that's brilliant. And so there were people who actually were claiming that they were familiar with, you know, Queen Shaddock who never existed.
That is not yeah person, yeah and no, And like the study basically was fine name that, Yeah, you are not only are people who rated to be were rated to be more intellectually humble, like more knowledgeable about real things, but they were less likely to overclaim that they knew something that you know is fictitious. And you know, I think that's important because it also opens us to learning about new things or more curious, but also maybe more
discerning about how you process information. Just keeping yourself open to yeah, the fact that you don't know everything. You'll always encounter new stuff, and you know, it's it's up to us to be like mindful about you know, what we know and what we believe.
I think that there was a quote from Albert Einstein, and I don't know if this was a neat quote or if this was a real quote, but it sounded it sounded pretty good Ifstein reportedly said that he wasn't especially intelligent, but he had an unending curiosity, which I thought, is even if it's made up, is a It's a great way to look at life, be a little humble
if Albert Einstein can say something like that. He said, and I think curiosity is the uh is Now again I'm little biased to because I happen to consider me I'm really curious. That is a sign of intelligence, not necessarily a high IQ per se. But I think people who are intellectually curious are more interesting, uh and they have a wider breath of knowledge. I mean, when you sit on an airplane, Richard, and I sit next to you, do you, like just put your headphones on or do
you start a conversation? Because I'm the conversation guy, I'm going to say, hey, what's going on?
Honestly depends if I'm to be honest, Like sometimes I just need my own alone time. But yeah, Like, I mean, that's the beauty of such a dast world as ours, with so many different people with different experiences, right, Like everyone can teach you something and you never know what might change your life just from a random conversation with your you know, neighbor.
Because I believe this. You know, everybody talks about what what's your IQ and what's the IQ you're intelligent, emotion and all that. I think we have like twenty different areas of intelligence artistic, mechanical, you know, agility, intellectual, all of that. I just think that this whole thing about measuring someone's IQ and saying, okay, you're one oh five or your T one twenty five. You see this with presidents, who was the smartest president and all of that.
Yeah, I just think that's.
A huge waste of time because I have no mechanical ability. I have no musical ability, I have no artistic ability. I know my limitations. Okay, I got a couple of areas where I'm pretty good, but that's it. That's it.
Yeah, But don't don't overlimit yourself either, Like you're also a capacity. You have capacity to learn and tick up new things. And even if you don't become the best at you know, being a woodworker or an artist, you can still gain something from the active trying it out, like enjoying the process.
And you know, learning.
So don't get yourself out either.
I would say I.
Also think I get what you're saying, yeah, but I also think that a lot of us who are overly formally educated. I'm a lawyer as well as a practicing journalist for many years, and a lot of my colleagues I sense that they look down at the blue collar person. I'm somebody who really believes in vocational schools. Not everybody
is wired to do four years as in college. And that is also the IQ thing going on there, and again, I'd probably love to talk to you about it more because I think that we need to value different people for different things. I mean, when you need a plumber, you need a plumber. Don't tell me you don't need an archaeology major. You need a plumber.
And I think that's that's the strength of the society will live in right that we have, you know, such diversity of talents, but also ways of hopefully training them to get the best that we can, so we could rely on each other to cover stuff that I don't know how to do or I don't know anything about, right, And that's you know, something that we need to keep in mind, I think, and being intellectually humble makes it more easy.
To accept that.
Oh yeah, I don't know how to you know, like stop my toilet from overflowing. I need someone else who can do this faster, keeper and all that.
Yeah, you might have two or three degrees the other thing. And I'm going to be real quick with you that I'm a big believer in and I'm so excited to talk to you because this is an area that I've never spent a lot of time on my show. I do a lot of politics and current events, but this is stuff that really gets me going. I am a
firm believer in going back to that airplane ride. I'm a firm believer with the six degrees of separation that if you and I talk, you know, on an hour flight, somehow, some way through six degrees of separation, we'll have some connection.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's there's some interesting research. I think, like when people are modeling social networks, basically you know how people arennected with each other, and I think one of the
theories is like this. I think it's called the small world hypothesis, where you know, you have a few people who just know a lot of people, and then you know it's like highways in across the country, you have these main highways where you can connect and then you find smaller connections, like as you get closer and closer. So I'm sure if we talked like we would I went to school in Boston. I shouldn't say that because I went to Harvard and people would hate me for
saying near Boston. But like, I'm sure you like really okay, so maybe it's it's I know what Harvard is, Richard.
I really enjoyed this conversation, and I'm sure that i'd love to have you back that I'm going to start to follow you st.
Yeah, I love this is a lot of fun.
Thank you very much. It was really enjoyable. We'll talk again, Richard Seema uh brain matter in the Washington Post. Check them out and there was no such thing as Queen Shattuck or Murphy's last Ride. Thanks so much, Richard. We got to take a break for the news at the bottom of the hour. We always do that. You know, when I get a great guest like Richard, I go a little longer. I apologize. But we're gonna have another
great guest coming up, Nicol Maley. He's gonna tell us about all the varieties of food at the Big E got to find out how much weight he gained, and we will talk with him right after the break here on Nightside and right after.
The news You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
This is the time of year, as I think everyone knows when they have the Big E, the Big Exhibition, I guess is what it stands for out in Springfield. I think it might be West Springfield technically, if it doesn't matter. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about. And one of the big attractions of the Big E is food, lots of food, different type food. I'm delighted to welcome Nick O'Malley, who's with Mass Live. And Nick, you apparently ate your way through the Big EE this year.
How many different foods did you sample?
Well, on this most recent trip, I tried thirteen different food There were a couple of drinks mixed in, so you used to say eleven thirteen, but a whole lot.
Well, I'm just looking at your article here out of Mass Live, and is the Biggie? Is it West Springfield or Springfield proper?
It is West Springfield, Okay, it's good.
It's somebody that was buried in my mind, okay, and it's been around for a long time. So you got the quad Father burger. Why would you even try to eat that? I mean it's four burgers and bacon and all sorts of other stuff.
I mean it's kind of like a mount everest of meat and cheese and buns. You gotta conquer it because it's there.
Ye apsolutely you know something that is. That's a clear explanation. And I can understand that. Did you get through the whole thing?
Not quite through the whole thing. There was a lot of foods in one day and a lot of steps to get through, so you got to try and balance it so they're not you know, taking me out on a forklift when I'm done.
No, no, no, absolutely. I mean you know, if you're if you're a baseball pitcher and you just throw fastballs all day, you know by the third or fourth inning, they're gonna they're gonna be on you. You got to mix it up. So you mixed it up a lot. The Freedo pie that's fifteen dollars. I hope you were on an expense account here, by the way.
I hope we all make it work.
Listen, Yeah, okay, we don't have to know for tax purposes the irs might be listening. You know what I'm saying. Listen, let me go past that. I would draw that question. Okay, there was one here that the stick this was, This is one that I would be interested in. A stick of s'mores smoked bacon candy. You couldn't put four words that would that would make me my mouth water? Well for better words than these moores smoked bacon candy. How good was that?
It was really good? Listen, I'm a big fan of bacon. I'm a big fan of candying that bacon and adding a little extra, with a little extra, the marshmallow, that chocolate, the Graham cracker. It's like all smoky and sweet, delicious.
Heaven, heaven, heaven. Okay, let's look at a couple of others here. Mashed potato fries. Why would why would you need mashed potato fries? What's regular fries are? Okay? What you find what's the advantage of mashing the potato up and then making.
A fry fry? You know?
Looking around at all these like crazy foods I'm looking at like poutine and chili cheese fries and all these crazy things, and really it's just a lot of like stuff covering up the potato. And that's what that's what this does. It takes a crazy topping something that you wouldn't think of. It's creative and it's fun, and it doubles up and celebrate. It's a potato, really doubles down on the flavor.
I like that one. Here's one that's interesting, The Big Sexy. Now, people, the Big Ee is still open for a while. So if you're doing nothing this weekend and you want to, you know, increase your choleresterol, go to the Bigie and try any and all of these foods. The Big Sexy from the Broccoli bar behind the Very Want building. You give people exact locations, which is don't you just put it in your GPS and you're there. It's fifteen dollars
for small in eighteen for large. Why would you do with small when the large is only three dollars more right?
That was my exact thought. I mean it's called the Big Sexy. I'm not going to get the small version of it. I mean, there's a very nice man dressed up in a broccoli costume making it for me. I gotta go all out.
Oh my god, absolutely, what was the faith. What was the best thing that you would recommend here? You got some a cup of pretzel beer with a self car with a salt caramel rim what what is the top thing you would recommend? Would it be the quad Father?
The quad Father was a fun experience, It wasn't the best tasting thing. And I go every year, so there's stuff that returns that I think is like gonna be a better pick for most folks. Like, one of my favorite things to recommend is something called a barbecue Sunday,
which isn't ice cream. It's all a bunch of like barbecue fixings of a corn bread, big beans, coal slaw, mashed potatoes, and it's sort of piled up on like a parfe and they put a cherry tomato on top of the mashed potato whiped cream, so it looks like a Sunday. But it's super fun to eat.
Sure, by the way. It interesting enough. And with some of the finest French restaurants in Paris, you there, and then there was one that you had here which I don't think you liked particularly, was this the the deep fried devil Eggs, in which.
Oh, I'm a big fan of the deep fried devil egg you did.
Okay, then what is the one here says the sensation of carrying a bowling ball of burger and eggs in your stomach is not a great one.
I mean, listen, I I fully endorse ordering a nice order of deep fried devil eggs. What I don't endorse is doing that immediately after eating the quad Father, because that's what I did.
You have to digest something before you can fully enjoy the other. I get that. I get that.
Yes, I was treading the correct path. I just wasn't taking the taking my time.
Yeah, No, well you were. You were out there on a mission to help all of us, which we have to respect and frankly acknowledge. And I just want to thank you for coming. When you weighed yourself a couple of days later, it's just curious were you able to you know, did you did you? Did you pick up a couple of pounds on the.
Scale and maybe, But the news about the big ee is that everything sort of spread out. I had one of the GPS trackers on my phone. I ended up walking five miles that day, so you know, offset the little bit. Yeah, definitely, eating a lot of spinach the next day though.
This was a lot of fun and you're great sport, Nic O'Malley giving us a tour of food tour at the Big Easy. And of course you can go read the article. It's it's a very well written and fun piece and this is one that should be in your your, your, your, your scrap book of This is a great piece. It really is. So the biggie in mass Life by Nick O'Malley. Please check it out, everybody. It's it's fun to talk about, but it's even more fun to read. Thanks very much, Nick.
Thank you for having me.
All Right, when we get back, we're going to explain the big story yesterday, the fed Rake cut. The stock market had a very nice day to day. So we're going to be talking with Bill Dendy, uh coming back on the other side, and you're going to be able to go to work tomorrow and explain the implications of the big rate the long awaited rate cut with financial strategist Bill Dendy from Raymond James coming back.
On night Side Now back to Dan ray Live from the Window World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Well, yesterday the Fed cut interest rates by a half a percentage point and with us to explain the implications of that is Bill Dendy builds a financial strategist with Raymond James. It was a long time coming, and I know you're teaching a class tonight, so I'm only going to keep you about six or seven minutes. Bill Dendy, Welcome to Nightside in Boston. How are you hey?
It's great to be with you. And it was kind of like the Fed was teasing us for a long time, so they're going to lower those rates and finally did they gave us a lot extra bonus.
Well, the market had a great day to day, I mean a big day to day, but yes, the day when the rates were lowered, it wasn't a great day for the market. Why the delayed reaction today, Let's talk about that first real quickly. What was this did Did the traders wake up today and say, you know, they really did cut the faces points yesterday? Was that what happened?
There was a lot of doubt when they saw a bigger than expected brake cut, saying what does the SPED know about the economy that we don't know? And of course Jerome came out and said none, this is just based upon our data and the things are good in the economy, but we've leave inflations under control. And I think enough people said, well, don't fight the Fed.
They don't lie.
They said they're going to lower rates. They did, and rates are expected to continue to be lowered unless inflation should rear back up. We would expect the Fed to continue to lower rates for the next twelve to twenty four months. And that's very positive the market. So we got that boost today.
Yeah, and it Pow sort of looks like a FED chairman. I mean, I think he does instill confidence in people no matter what he does. Kind of he's able to carry it off. You know, he looks, he looks the part. So the impact for the average person with the rate cut, what's that going to mean? Obviously hopefully the amount of money that you're going to have to spend that a
mortgage is going to go down. Give us a couple of the highlights so people can make it understandable to the people who are listening tonight who maybe get lost in some of the terminology.
Well, mortgage rates have already come down about a percent and a half from their highs just a few months ago, and so that redooced mortgage rate of a percent and a half means that if you're buying a four hundred thousand dollars home, Okay, that may not be enough home for some folks, but at four hundred thousand dollars home, you're saving four dollars a month on payments. Well, that's phenomenal because for a lot of people there's low interest rates,
they can get more home for the dollars. They spent less money going for the interest, more going for the home. And so there were a lot of folks who were sidelined as interest rates were so high that are feeling like, well, maybe they can now look at getting into the market and buying that home. Same thing for new and used cars and credit card debt. It might not come down real fast. People will probably saved a few dollars a month. But again this is a sign of things to come,
because the federal really has one cut and stops. They're going to cut, maybe pauls if inflation comes back, but the hope is that they continue to cut and we end up by the end of twenty twenty five being down about another two percent from where we are today, and that can make a significant difference for people across the board now.
As rates come down. Mortgage rates come down, one of the things that a lot of people who were holding onto their homes, they wanted to put them on the market, but they didn't want to trade a really nice mortgage rate which they might have had six or seven years ago when it was three and a half percent for
a six and a half percent mortgage. So that means more more houses are going to come on the market, which you would think greater supply would lower the cost, but that's also means more people are going to come into the market. So you might save on the mortgage rate, but that four hundred thousand dollars house might get more expensive in the next month or two as the market develops right along.
That's an interesting point because what we'll probably see now persons on their home, they may be buying another home. So that's a kind of a wash there as far as they sell, So you've got to make inature house in the market, but they're buying, so you have another demand on the market, so they're kind of offsetting. But the interesting thing is for those who've been waiting that
suddenly start going shopping to buy their new houses. All that excitement to go ahead and take advantage of this might actually cause the return of the thing that the Fed was all about getting rid of. That's inflation, because all that extra demand can be inflationary if you had to.
Everybody tries to point back and say, well, were where were we in this the situation we find ourselves in with the rates coming down and the housing market probably loosening up. When did we last experience this sort of trend or this phenomenon. How could we relate to this if we were looking to learn from the past.
Well, it's kind of interesting looking at the last time the Fed cut rates was in March or twenty twenty during the pandemic, and that was because the whole world shut down and they were trying to stimulate the economy. The last time they cut rates a whole half a percent at one time was two thousand and eight during the Great Recession because economy had just about died on
us and they were trying to stimulate the economy. This time, they're cutting a half a percent, not trying to stimulate the economy, but trying to take the rates back to a more I guess they put it normalized level, so they're gonna want to reduce the rates, and they're gonna want to make sure they're not doing it too quickly and pouring gasoline on the fire that's already burning as high as we wanted to burn.
So we have to come back quite quite a ways to find an equivalent combination of factors. Obviously, twenty twenty was an anomaly. Two thousand and eight was an anomaly bad situations to cut the raids to get the market going up, but to kind of slow it down for the soft so called soft landing. Maybe we haven't seen that in twenty or thirty years. A rate cut to effectuate that result exactly.
That hopes we can nicely do this without too much in place in coming back, But you know, it's the markets responded pretty quickly. Interest rates fell in anticipation of the rate cut, and they fell some more after the rate cut. People who have stock market investments and bond market investments saw those go up, And you know it, what's good for the investors who already have those things might not be so good. You know it's cutting rates is great if you're a borrower, and it's great if
you were already in the stock or bond market. But it's not so great if you were living on your fixed income, if you were getting by on your CD and bond income, and you have these things come and do. Now you're not getting the same rate we were getting last year. And so for all retire are like, gosh, this isn't a benefit to us.
Social Security beneficiaries that have suggested that you're going to see a two percent cola next year. There was a Cohler a couple of years ago as much as nine percent. So you have people on a fixed income not going to help them. Bill Denny, you've explained it very well. You with Raymond James, financial strategist, big company, and I know you're teaching a class tonight and I was, I promised to get you out in ten minutes, and I think I've met that that that commitment. Thank you so
much for wonderful You're great lead. You have a pleasure if you love to have you back. Thank you very much, thank you, thank you very welcome. When we get back, we're going to talk about what went on up at Susan Baranowski. It was an ugly scene. Correction officers were hurt. We will have reaction from Governor Heally and we'll also talk with Republican State Senator Durant. Peter Durant, This was an ugly scene out there a little over twenty four
hours ago. Dan Rayo Knightside back after the nine o'clock news