It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's News Radio.
Oh, I completely agree with you on that one, Nicole. Of course, we completely agree on most things. Anyway. My name is Dan Ray and the host of Nightside, heard every Monday through Friday night from eight until midnight right here on WBZ Boston's News Radio. You can listen to us over the air what we call terrestrial radio, through your car or your radio at home, or you can download the iHeartRadio app and listen to us anywhere in
the world. We have listeners around the world, believe it or not, and we have lots of listeners across America. Oftentimes these are people who have found us inadvertently or have heard about us, or maybe they are transplants from Boston who have moved somewhere else. We have a lot of listeners in Canada, we have some listeners in Mexico. So it is a big program and I'm delighted to be about just about to start year eighteen doing this program.
We're wrapping up in the next month or so. Nightside with Dan Ray officially officially unofficially went on the air in May of two thousand and seven, but it became nightside on October first, two thousand and seven, so we count that as sort of the birthday. We will start year eighteen on October first, in the midst of our presidential campaign, so we have lots to accomplish. Tonight. We will talk at nine o'clock tonight. We're talking so much
politics lately. We'll talk a little bit tonight, beginning at nine o'clock about the continuing saga of the Boston Bomber, the one surviving member of that, the two brothers we don't mention their names, Boston Bomber two. He's now thirty one years old. It's been over eleven years, and he's still lingering on death row at super Max in Colorado. And now he will get to all of that at
nine o'clock. And of course later on tonight, we will hear the presidentidential acceptance, the acceptance of the Democratic nomination by Vice President Kamala Harris. Her speech in its entirety, and depending upon what time she starts at what time she ends, you'll have an opportunity to talk about that speech either before or after. But those times are a little fluid, so you have to stick with us. But
I'll tell you what is not fluid. We have four great guests coming up this hour, and we're going to start off by talking about September, which, amongst other things, is National Suicide Prevention Month. Suicide in the US reached a record high in twenty twenty two, and yet the toll was exceeded in twenty twenty three when a half a million Americans lost their lives to suicide. Delighted to
welcome to our program. Nasa Yasine, founder of a holistic medical health app called Soul sol Nasa, thanks for joining us tonight. What is going on in our country that so many people are being so desper find themselves so desperate that they take their own lives.
Yeah, well, first, Dan, thank you so much for having me on the program. And happy early eighteenth birthday to your program. That's quite it's amazing a.
While, thank you very much. I try to introduce the program with a little bit of different information every night, so you had to listen to my garments that I apologize for that, but I want to talk about suicide. I worked as a television reporter, and I remember back on the thirty one years that I worked as a
television reporter here in Boston suicides would never reported. I also served on the board of directors of the Samaritans here in Boston for fifteen years, which is an anti suicide organization, as headed at that point by a woman named Monica Dickens, who was the granddaughter of the great writer Charles Dickens. So I know a little bit about this, But I know there are suicide hotlines. I know everyone's working hard, But what's the impetus for this increase in suicides?
Yeah, you know, it's so tragic, right because when you take a step back and you look at you know, our species, our country, and our species humanity as a whole. You know, we are living longer than we've ever lived. We are wealthier than we've ever been.
As a species.
We are more powerful than we've ever been as a species. We have these smartphones and AI and I mean, if we're to go back one hundred years, people would think that we're handed off from Lord of the Rings or something, right, and so on the surface, it looks like everything's just going swimmingly, and yet we're killing ourselves at a rate that we never have in the entire history of our species. So, you know, today more people die from suicide than die
from homicide. That's never happened in the history of humanity, and so why is this happening.
A good way to think about.
This is imagine there's a coin that's made from two ingredients, purpose and belonging. Okay, the coin has two sides. From a scientific perspective, we know that depression and anxiety, addiction, thoughts of suicide come from lacking a sense of purpose and belonging. And on the flip side, we also know that happiness and contentment comes from when you feel purposeful and when you feel like you belong And so the real key is to help people find a sense of
purpose and belonging. And today it's very hard to do that because we're so distracted on social media. I mean, if you look at what's happening with teens. I'm the father of two teams, and they have to be on some social media in order to be part of you know, the jokes and you know the you know, be part
of the crowd that they hang out with. But while we're there, the only messages that they're being delivered are, oh hey, uh, you think you look good today, Well, look at this other person who's like an influencer and a model. You think you're you know, you learn something interesting last week, Well here's this other person who learned this dance that you can't do or this trick that you can't do.
So social media sounds to me like so social. And I agree with you that social media has its benefits, but it's its liabilities are extraordinary.
Absolutely, you know, it makes it, It makes it. It's ironic, right because you know, we're connected to more people than we.
Ever have been, right.
I mean, you look at the number of followers you have, or the number of connections you have on Instagram or whatever case may be. It looks like you're connected to a lot of people, but the quality of those connections is much poorer than normal relationships have been throughout the history of our spaces.
We used to live in.
Towns and communities where you'd actually cost side and talk to people and actually have real conversations with about that.
How about that for concept? Okay, so we can't give it in Facebook, we can't give it TikTok LinkedIn Instagram, all of these things. What what what can we do? What? Yeh is the advice to say to parents and you're a parent, of teenagers. I a few years ago had two teenagers, but they now have grown up and they're out of the the nest and they're they're flying around the country on their own, doing their thing. They certainly have a purpose at this point, and I hope they
have a sense of belonging. What can parents do, I mean, they can't shut the social media off teenagers or the kids will who knows what they do?
Yeah, I think I think the first step is, you know, and my colleague at Soul Doctor, Lisa Miller, she wrote an entire book about this called The Spiritual Child, and it's a New York Times bestseller. I highly recommend you, know, you or your listeners check out that book. It's a fantastic book that talks specifically about this. But really it boils down to a couple of things. Number one is, you know, stop making your child feel like you only
value them for their accomplishments. Good grades are great, and the fact that they're on the soccer team or whatever is great, you know, but when they get home from school, you know, you shouldn't have a conversation like what you learned today, like give me your report card basically for the day. Just be happy to see them right. Make it clear that you value them, not their accomplishments.
Number one.
Number two, make it clear that it's okay to talk about things like feeling sad or feeling left out or feeling rudderless. These are normal experiences to talk about in a house, in a household and in a family. And what you can do, practically speaking, to help develop a greater sense of purpose and belonging for yourself or for your kids is you know, whenever you're able to align your daily activities with your own sense of greater good, you inherently start to develop a greater sense of purpose.
So the first question is to ask yourself what am I inspired by? What things make me happy?
Is it?
You know?
Am I happy reading books? Or am I happy walking outside in nature? Am I happy doing exercise? Am I happy listening to music? There's no wrong answers. You know, am I inspired by you know, ancient philosophy? I'm inspired by, you know, religion of some sort? Am I inspired by just you know, human rights? Or am I inspired by feeling connected to you know, to to other people? Whatever your sense of greater good is and whatever.
These I don't mean to interrupt, But I have to have to interrupt. This is a much deeper conversation that I would like to have with you in September during National Prevention Suicide Month. Could my producer reach back to you after Labor Day and have you on with us for an hour and entertain some phone calls?
Sure, be happy to.
I would love to do that. How can folks in the meantime get to your website? I just think that this conversation, you've said so many things that I have have absorbed here, and I want my audience to listen to you for an hour and to have an opportunity to call you during this hour. We interview for folks on different topics, and some of them are pretty simple. This one's pretty deep and it deserves more time. So, but in the short term, how can folks get in
touch with you or with your website's website? Give give us something?
Yeah?
Sure, you know. Please go to get sol G E T s O L Dot app and you can download our app learn all about this subject matter. From there, you know how to develop a life of your purpose and belonging. And yeah, thank you, thank you.
For is going to get back in touch with you and we'll do an hour in September. You can. I guarantee you will do an hour and we'll have a much deeper and I think more fulfilling conversation. This is this needs more than the seven, eight, nine ten minute interview that we normally do. So thanks so much for opening this world to us, and we will have you back sometime in September. I'm so looking forward to it. Thank you so much for being willing to do that
as well. Thanks so much, Nazar. Now, so you've seen founder of holistic mental health app Soul Get Soul g E T s L dot app. Okay, when we come back, we're going to talk about the art of conscious conversations, which kind of plays into what we were just talking about, and we'll get to that right after this quick break on Nightside.
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Our next guest matches very nicely with the founder of the mental health group Soul Last Hour, Chuck Wisner. He's an author and a coach. I'm going to talk about the art of conscious conversations, transforming how we talk, listen, and interact. This sounds interesting, Chuck, tell us about exactly what our conscious conversations. I assume you mean maybe listening a little more than.
Talking, well both actually because because the reason I mean I wrote the book after many years of working with a bunch of leaders. But we sort of grow up learning how to talk and be in a conversation and just adopt patterns from our families and our cultures and don't really ever get taught how they work and what the DNA of a conversation is. So in the book, I sort of try to break it down into four types of conversations and four types of really important archetypes
that are involved in every conversation we have. So it's a way of sort of giving people a new way to think about conversations so they can actually maybe navigate tough ones better, whether it's your spouse, your kids, or your boss.
Give us the four types, if you can, in short order, and then we can perhaps drill down on a couple of them.
Sure. The first one is storytelling, and that's sort of the stories we tell ourselves and the stories we tell
about others, and the stories we tell to others. And there's some that are really really lovely and wonderful and there's some that are really harmful, So there's a lot of work to do there for ourselves so that we can then move to the next conversation, which is the collaboration conversation or the collaborative conversation, which is really the art of how we advocate, how we inquire, how we ask questions, and our ability to sort of learn from
other people without getting defensive or having to be right all the time. The third one is the creative.
Conversation, and this is sort of.
Re equating ourselves with our right brain, because we're so trained to be in our left brain and be rational and literal, and our right brain is little is actually the wiser one, and it's our intuitions, and it's our ability to open up our minds so we can think about possibilities instead of shutting things down with our judgments. And the last one is really crucial for business. We live in this day in.
And day out.
It's a commitment conversation. It really is the action conversation. It's how we coordinate action with other people, the promises we make. And we don't understand that conversation very well, so we actually do that conversation in a pretty sloppy way often, So that example of what you mean by that, oh,
the sloppy conversations. Yeah, yeah, so that would be like whether you know someone asked you to do something and without even thinking it could be a boss, could be a colleague, it could be even your spouse, and without even thinking, we sort of have an addiction to yes, sure I can do that. But actually then you go and do it and you don't satisfy the other person's request because you never talked about what they really wanted. You made a lot of assumptions, and then when when
that happens, we have a broken promise. And if we don't deal with that, then we have then we have trust issues, probably.
Trust and then feelings of guilt.
Yeah, totally.
The what's the single most damaging type conversation that the average listener of mine might engage in the potential for damage? Is it an interfamilial conversation of a conversation with your boss, or conversation with someone who maybe is in a transactional relationship with you, a business person or a neighbor. What what are the ones that, uh that that carry a greater concern in your mind?
Yeah, so I think it's home and work, and they have different flavors. You know, the home is is uh.
In every conversation home and work, there's always power issues, authority issues, and we tend to make a lot of judgments based on the standards we live by, but that sort of lives in the background of our awareness, and so we make a lot of judgments and that whether it's at home or work, those judgments become our opinions, and then we hold on to them really tightly, and our ego holds onto them, and then we defend them, and then we're in a conversation with a closed fist
instead of an open hand. So and that plays out at work and at home, and it gets exaggerated at work because of hierarchies, because there's you know, we have bosses and they have more power than we do, and so the conversation gets a little more delicate and also more dangerous.
So the book, the book that you've written. Obviously, we can't cover everything that's in this book in the few minutes that we have. Is it currently available. I think it's called The Art of Conscious Conversation.
That's right. It's on Amazon. It was published by Barrett Kohler It's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, askedport at your favorite bookstore. Yeah, it's there, and you know it's so it's a book. It's not a book that's going to give you easy answers, but it's a book that's going to give you a window into, like I said, the DNA or the ABC of conversations and how they work
and why they don't work. So you can do some practices and you can do some transformation of how you enter a difficult conversation and hopefully help other people to have more collaborative and creative conversation.
How long has the book been available? Is this a recent release or has it been around a little while.
It's been out about a year, a little over a year, plush, Yeah, is there any And I've been doing a lot of podcasts. It's it's it's getting good good attention good.
That is there? Are there other books or is this one? You know your thoughts on this? Is this a novel approach or or is this something that others have approached. I think it's fascinating listening to you for the last few minut to talk about the types of conversations and the relationships, and I have listened very carefully, and I will get the book. But is this an area where there's a variety of experts or are you perhaps of trailblazer here?
Yeah? Well, I think you know there are other books. There's there's a book called Difficult Conversations, which are people here in the Boston area and Crucial Conversations. Their approach is really different. My approach is trying to I tried to take some very esoteric ideas around language and linguistics that are really hard to read and understand. You know what,
what are conversation's made out? And why does it make us live life the way we do and try to take all those things and emotional intelligence and some other pieces and make it put it all together in a way that people can end up after their reading and have a new window into conversations, a new way of looking at them. So it's a novel approach, and I pulled for many, many different resources from my work over the last thirty years to put that together.
Well, thank you for joining us tonight again. I think that in this brief conversation that we've had, you've made a lot of great points and I hope people consider picking this book up the art of conscious conversations, transforming how we talk, listen, and interact. Chuck Wisner, thank you very much. I see that you're a local person in the area here, so we may have you back.
Okay, definitely having me back. We can go a little deeper. Yeah, thanks for having me.
It's exactly what I was what I was thinking about. Thanks, Chuck, I appreciate it very much. We'll talk again. Thank you.
Bye.
When we get back on the other side of the news break at the bottom of the arrow, we're going to be talking. There's a big freight strike, a railroad strike going on in Canada, and you may say, well, what difference does have to us. Well, Rob Kelly, who's a supply chain expert, is going to talk about the impact that that might have on all of us. It might be a big to the US economy, according to see him in business, and we'll get to all that right after the break. At the bottom of the hour,
news is coming up. My name's Dan Ray. This is Nightside, Boston's news radio right here on WBZ ten thirty on your AM dial. If you're driving around and listening to us in a carl walk us in here. We'd love to have you. Love to have be on your automatic dial wherever you are so that you can always find Nightside and WBZ we'll be back after this.
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
That's interesting information. And thank you very much to Cole. Now, believe it or not, there's a big and it's not a strike. It's a lockout going on up in Canada with railroads. A lot of people involved, and it could have a spillover effect for all of us here in the lower forty eight if you will with us, as Rob Kelly a supply chain expert. Rob, what's going on north of the border.
Hey, very good, it's great to be on. Thanks for having me.
My pleasure to have you, because I just learned about this. This is not a strike, it's a lockout. That's a difference. That's a difference.
That's right. So the Teamsters Union of Canada is, you know, asking for better working conditions, reduction in on the job fatigue and better pay, and the two major railways are not interested and so they have essentially well they had locked them out until near the end of the business day today when Prime Minister Justin Trudeau directed the Head of of Commerce to basically order arbitration so that the lockout may end almost as fast as it started.
Okay, so this what what my concern is, what sort of an impact might this have on us? Do the Canadian railroads, I know some of them come across the border, how much of it? How much of an adverse impact could this have if let us say, somehow maybe the unions decided to go.
On strike, Yes, it could be, it could be very large. Typically, a few days isn't going to hurt us, but if this were to stretch into a week or longer, then it would have a very big impact on us. There there are a number of different products and goods that come back and forth between Canada and the United States. And you know, if you remember NAFTA and all the you know the trade agreements that we have, about half to two thirds of all shipments UH are coming via
rail between Canada in the United States. And that's that's billions of dollars, actually about a billion dollars a day in Canada, with about two thirds of that coming to the US. So what do you have major impact?
You know, what do they explore to us? What what products are we getting from Canada? Just so people can understand what.
Sure, Yeah, there's a lot of chemical businesses, food distributors that that would be directly affected. The auto industry is probably next because it relies on just in time shipments with you know, cross border deliveries of engines, parts, and even finished vehicles in some cases. So there's quite a bit of manufacturing business for autos in Canada. And four out of every five cars that are made in Canada are exported to the United States by rail. And then oh yeah, no.
No, looking at it the other way, what do we ship up there that may end up backed up here and sitting somewhere in warehouses here?
Yes, excellent question. The biggest one is in agriculture. So we export about twenty eight billion dollars of agriculture products to Canada every year, and a majority of that is
harvested crops. And it's particularly a big problem this year because the Midwest farmers are having a kind of a bumper year high yields of crops, and so the problem is when you have a lot of crops, you don't necessarily have a lot of places to store it, and so that is typically where those either sales occurred that goes to Canada, or at the very least just store it of those harvest crops would go to Canada. So disruption in the rail system would be very detrimental to the act industry.
So as we approach this, just I don't know how much of this the details you have, So if I'm asking unfair questions, let me know. Sure, is there a contract between the railroad companies and the teamsters in Canada? Has it already expired or is the lockout as the negotiating for a contract. My guess is they're probably working without a contract at this point.
Yes, And you know, I don't know the details on that. I don't know if it expired or if just the lockout began.
Okay, from what then? Let me ask you, what then is the history of labor relations between the railroads in the teamsters, which I assume represent most, if not all, of the railroad I playes had. Is this an unprecedented, you know, a dispute or is this something that happens every three or four years and uh and somehow they worked through it?
Yes, a great question. I know that there has been challenges with a number of unions both in the United States and in Canada. The interesting thing about this one was that the team Stars Canada was, you know, talking about these again conditions and better pay over a year ago, and negotiations started over a year ago, and you would have thought that, you know, with that much time, that
they could have found a resolution. But both sides got pretty entrenched, and so the fact that it has led to a stoppage, it's not unprecedented, but it's been I believe a few decades since it happened. And so that's when the lockout started. You know, the Prime Minister stepped in almost immediately.
Well, I would assume, knowing a little bit about the laws in Canada, not be an expert, that there's much more of an interventionist attitude that the Prime Minister would have in terms of labor relations. Normally in America, the NLB will stand back and allow the negotiation to continue for some time unless it does impact a critical trade relationship or critical products for the American people. But normally I would have assumed that maybe, well, Trudeau obviously acted quickly.
I'm surprised he didn't even act act more quickly. Obviously at this point, he's forcing them back to the marketing table. I find with any labor negotiations, and I've been involved in a couple of my own. I'm a union member and was a shop steward that everybody sort of waits until the final hour or before they get real on this, and then you're you know, we have unions down here in Massachusetts where they will work for a year, teachers' unions work for a year without a contract, then they
go on strike, or police departments work. So I assume that the dynamic, the negotiation dynamic, is probably pretty simple here. Very rarely do you hear that one of these contracts, particularly with the major unions, is resolved six months before the deadline. It seems to be just part of that kabooki dance that both sides feel they have to go through.
The companies want to extract as much concessions out of the unions as they can in recent years, and the union leadership wants their membership to know that they are standing up for them. Do you have a thought or a prediction as to where we go from here? Rob?
Do you think that because the Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, has interceded that that's going to put them back at the table and they'll be forced to an agreement, or do you think this could linger for a while and maybe get worse over the next few weeks.
I honestly, I believe that by forcing arbitration that this will probably be resolved. But I think it's still going to be in terms of the supply chain. The challenge is, you know, once once this starts, you're already creating supply chain problems. Right. So, now you know you have the two major railroads GP, CAC and CN. You know they've
embargoed all shipments that originate in Canada for export. And then like the Port of Vancouver, which is their major importing shipping channel, you know it has now embargoed all of the containers that are within its terminal and all the shipments now are being diverted to you know, Seattle, Tacoma, Oakland or even LBC.
So the teams is refusing to unload the ship that's in Vancouver.
Well, I mean when the lockout occurred, you know, nine ten thousand people couldn't go to work.
No, I understand that, But now the lockout is over, so I assume they're back at work. Tomorrow or I'm my making a wrong assumption.
Oh no, no, no, no, I think you're right. But again, since now it's been you know, dormant for the last twenty four hours, you've already started to back up supply chaincha, So that's going to take, you know, for every day, there's probably another two or three days that it takes to unwind that. So that's why, like if you get into a week or beyond, you know, you could be talking about weeks of disruption. And remember too, this is
from a supply chain perspective. This is really their peak season because you have all the imports of retail goods coming in for the Christmas season, so the ports are all full right now with with activity.
Well, Rob, appreciate your perspective. It's something that I know very little about, and you've clarified it for me, and I know you've clarified it from my audience, and we may get back to you as this situation continues to evolve. I do appreciate you taking the time. Thank you so much for being with us.
Thank you and thanks for having me on. Have a great evening you too.
Rob. When we get back, we're going to talk about the history of the American Mafia. Yeah, Lewis Ferrante, former mafia associate Filma Gambino Family heist expert, didn't even know they had heist experts. But that's okay. We'll talk with Lewis about a new book that he has just published and will I think we'll find this to be very interesting coming up on the other side of the break. My name's Dan Ray. This is Nightside on a Thursday night, August twenty second. For those of you keep in track.
Now back to Dan Ray live from the window World. Nice night Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.
Joining is now is Lewis. He's a former Mafi associate. It's always great to talk to someone who used to be in the mafia. Lewis, Welcome to Nightside. How are you?
Thanks a lot, Dan appreciate it. I'm well. Hope you are as well.
Yes, I am, so you're a former Gambino Family heist expert. I didn't realize that they had specialties within the Gambino family.
They do. It takes a lot of every kind of different meat to make a sauce, so every family has every family has different guys but different things and how foolish. Would a captain Look if somebody came to him, Maybe guy owes them a half a million and says, hey, i'll give you a tip on a heist. You know, maybe we could square my bill. And then the capo says, gee, I have nobody, uh who could do that. I wouldn't know where to begin. You know, they called me, they
know you know that's what they did. They called me, and then I had my crew. We looked into it, we scoped it out. If it was worth doing, we did it. And so and hest came to us from all different walks of life, all the different types of people. They weren't just street people a lot of times, you know, legitimate people that worked obs. They get them, they get themselves in over their head with a mortgage. Maybe a spendthrift wife. A guy might come to me and say,
my wife can't stop spending. I'm in dad, I can't pay the credit cards. I'll give you a tip on this or that. And you know, the tips come from the craziest places. But I did everything you could imagine so in that area.
So at what age did you, I assume you became a maid member.
No, I was scheduled to be slated to become made. When I went away, I had the FBI, the Secret Service in the Nashaal County Organized Crime task for was take me down. I had three indictments over my head at twenty four years old. So I was supposed to get straightened out my friends that we would get we were. I had friends of mine, obviously on the street. Some of them were born into the life, some of them weren't. They came into it like I did, and we were
all supposed to get straightened out together. And I went away. So they started getting straightened out after I went away. And the plan was that when I came home, I face life. I didn't know if I was ever going to come home.
Uh.
When I finally did come home, I did eight and a half years hard time. When I finally did come home, they were waiting for me. They wanted to straighten me out, you know now, even more so because I did my time. I kept my mouth shut, and by then I had woken up. I had I had realized that, you know, the whole life that I was leading was wrong. So when they.
When you say they wanted to straighten you up, they wanted to bring into the group.
Formerly they wanted to initiate me. Yeah, okay, into the bog, into the family, right.
And so you did eight and a half years federal time.
I did eight and a half years well, a little a mix of boat so I had I had a I was sentenced to thirteen years in this in the Feds. Originally I went into court with the late William Kunstler was my attorney.
Oh sure, Bilunseler. He was the attorney to the radicals. I didn't really well, of course you were, you would have been a paying customer.
So that you got yeah, I came, Yeah. I came to him in a weird way. He can't. He helped John Gotti out John's appeal after John was convicted and given a life sentence. He was trying to get John out on appeal and I came to him in a weird way, and then he ended up he said a friend to John as a friend of mine, and he came in and helped me on my case, and then he ended up taking my case, all my cases, and he was a great guy. I got along with him.
I didn't know radical left, radical right. I didn't politics. I didn't know my ass for my elbow in the world of politics at that time. I just knew he was a famous attorney, and I got along with him, and uh, and he ended up you know, he did his best, but yeah, I was a paying customer and it ended up. Somebody wrote a biography a few years back, and they put me in there and they said that you know, he always said that Council always said that
he did everything pro bono, but that's not true. No, gave mobsters that paid him big money, and I was one of them. I gave him over one hundred grand.
No, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, he could do pro bono for the for the political radicals as long as he was also had some paying customers coming in the other door. So how much did would you? Did you spend time? Dan Bring? Where where did you?
Yeah? I was so yeah, I ended up I was facing life in the FEDS. And the reason why I didn't have any bodies, I wasn't charged with bodies. The worst crimes were just uh, heights and hijackings and every time yeah yeah, yeah, real property. But there were there was always uh, there were victims involved, you know, there was they were armed robberies, and then you know we unfortunately, I very I regret to say this today, but we
tied people up. And you know, if we took if we did a heist, you know, you have to subdue the person and then we would let them know immediately. Look, we're just after the money. We're not after you. We don't want to hurt you. We promise you you'll be home with your wife and kids by tonight. You know, there's nothing we want from you. We we were definitely not that that excuses my conduct in any.
Way, but yourself professionally, and I mean, you weren't there to terrorize someone. You weren't there in a pistol whip someone you wanted them to, right, You didn't do your job and get out, I get it.
Yeah. Yeah, we would explain that we're just looking for the truckle. We're just looking for whatever whatever we were looking for the heist. If it was a safe that's all we want. And so in the end, each time your charge with a with a heighst or a hijacking, it was a ten year statue. And then each time a gun was using the commission of a crime that was a five year statue. On top of the ten. So let's say you got your charge with ten heists
and hijackings. I was facing one hundred years for the on the crimes itself, and then another fifty for the gun charges. So I was facing one hundred and fifty years, which is equal to life in prison.
Facts. I assume what they did was they rolled them up for you, and you weren't trying it. You either pled out for for you know, for all of them, for one.
That's right. I was pledged up. I plied out. I copped to one hijacking in the end, and I got thirteen years in the FEDS, and they gave me the state time concurrent. While I was away, I went through seven attorneys, and then I eventually met a guy who says, hey, why don't I take you down to the wall library. I'll teach you the law. You could represent yourself. And I reversed the biggest case I had, which was the
FBI case. I reversed that pro se with this, I can scert your Court of appeals on a technicality, not because I was innocent, but I got Yeah, I got out in eight and a half years. I'm happy to say I did that eight and a half years. I did hard time. I was in Lewisbourg Penitentiary in nineteen ninety.
Eight when it's Pennsylvania area.
Oh, Dan, it was a hell hole. Dan, I can't even begin to tell you. My very first day in population. The Aryan Brotherhood hacked to that then gutted two black Muslim inmates that they were at war with. There were six or eight homicides back and forth between the Arians and the Black Muslims.
They were listen this, I'm running out of time. I want to pluge the book. So the book is a history of the American mafia, featuring the book right Borgata Clash of Titans covers nineteen sixty and eighty four. Gotta yeahta yeah yeah.
The first yeah, well, the first one is Borgatta Borgatta. Volume one was Rise of Empire, which begins in Sicily and it takes the entire evolution of the American mafia up and through the twentieth century and ends in nineteen sixty. Volume two, Class of Titans, begins in nineteen sixty and that starts with the Kennedy administration.
Okay, here's what we're gonna do. I'm going to my producer call you. You're back, get in touch with you, and we're going to bring you back, and we're gonna do a whole hour, not just a short eight p eight interview. We'll set it up in the next couple of weeks and we'll take phone calls.
Fair enough, sounds good? Yeah, well this air as well then, or you want to go well.
This is live right now, you're and you can listen to this tomorrow. Rob will tell you how to download it tomorrow. Night's out in demand dot com. But we'll do an hour live with phone calls as well. This is not tape. This is live. We were live. Okay, sounds good?
All right, great, then I appreciate it.
Well, well, yeah, I know a lot about it. I was involved in organized investigating organized criminal activity up here, and I also got four guys out who had been involved. But we're intentionally and wrongfully convicted by corrupt FBI agents. In my last as a television reporter, they were awarded one hundred and one million dollars for having spent a total of one hundred and nine years in prison for crime they never committed.
Incredible and I have to tip my hat to you, Dan, I did look up that, uh I did some research before I had on the phone with you when I was absolutely blown away by your career, and uh yeah, we will.
We will be We'll be together in the next couple of weeks, I promise you, and we'll spend We'll have a great hour. Thanks Lewis.
That's good. Dan, have a good night.
But that's great. We got the nine o'clock news. That's going to be a great hour. Stick with us. We're going to talk about a different type of crime coming up on the other side. Why is Boston bomber number two still alive and back in court? This saga needs to end, and it needs to end quickly. Back on Nights side after the nine