It's night Side, Dan undoing Mazy Boston's news radio.
Beg you, Dan Watkins, as we move into a Thursday night edition of Nightside. We'll be here for the next four hours, less a few minutes. We'll get you all the way up until midnight. We will talk later on tonight with a former Massachusetts state representative who spent some years in federal prison some time, I should say in federal prison for some campaign violations. It was complicated by
some addictions. And we'll be talking with former Massachusetts Representative Dave Nangle Nangle and talk about not only what he has learned from this cautionary tale, but how he hopes to help people as a consequence of it. And then later on tonight at ten o'clock, we will talk with Larry and Scott Rubinstein, the WVZ Nightside car guys. So it's May first, the driving season is about to get underwagh and any questions you have about cars in any
shape or form, any vehicle, any model, any make. They know more about cars than any two people I know. My name's Dan Ray. I know myself pretty well, and I also know Rob Brooks, the pronouncer, the producer of this program. I do not know. Our first guest here at the eight o'clock hour. His name is doctor Stephen Katz. Pleasure to make your acquaintance, Doctor Katz. How are you this evening?
Hi Dan, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. You know, we can just chat about cars if you like. I like the idea of your guys coming on later. I'd love to talk with them.
Well, I'll tell you six month seven two five thirty. Give them a call. They know everything. But you are the president of the American Association of Endo Dauntists, and I believe that word endo dantist is from the Greek which means inside the tooth. We're talking about taking care of our teeth inside and outside. You have a message from my listeners, because look, healthy teeth are just as important as any other portion of your body to keep
healthy because it can have tremendous impact on us. What is the primary message you want to impart to my listeners tonight, our listeners to me.
Yeah, that's exactly right. So I am, as you said, the president of the American Association of end Adonnas and Endomeans. Within the tooth, end adonis perform root canal therapy and related procedures to save the teeth. And it just so happens that starting today is what we celebrate called Save your Tooth Month, and in May each year, the American Association of end Adonnas recognizes and Celli breaks are members and champion the preservation of natural teeth and their quest
to improve oral health for all our patients. And I think the message that we would like to impart is that nothing feels, functions, or looks like our natural teeth do. They are just so crucial for eating, for speaking, and for smiling, and we all understand the value that that imparts. But more importantly, what we learn now, as you said, is that the teeth are associated with the overall health
of the body. So we know that if you have a clean, healthy mouth, you have less likely chance of having heart disease, you have better brain health, you have better control of your sugar, and there's many other things that I think will continue to discover about how important it is to save your natural teeth.
So one of the things that I want to address with you is the word root, the phrase root canal. I had a couple when I was very young, back in the dark ages, and they were not pleasant experiences. But as I understand it, you folks try to make people understand that the fear of the current dentist is quite different than maybe the first dentist all of us were introduced to early on in our lives. How important in your mind is the patience comfort with a procedure
as complicated as a root canal, and it does. It's one of those words that no one ever wants to hear. Doctor. I'm sure you have you understand what I'm saying.
Sure, sure, And oh, I mean, I don't know how I could sum that up other than to say it's crucially important when we treat patients as endodonists. I mean that is primary that our patients are numb, that they don't feel anything at all, and that it's a positive experience for them. So I think the point you made is really accurate and valid. A lot of patients have had procedures in the past, and you know they were potentially uncomfortable, and that keeps patients away from the dentist.
But the problem with that is the longer you stay away from the dentist, the more likely that you're going to have problems, and those problems become bigger problems, and those teeth ultimately could need root canal and some of them could actually be lost as well. So the thing about seeing an end adonist is that we are experts in the diagnosis and treatment of pain. We've been trained
extensively in anesthesia and how to make our patients comfortable. Additionally, compared to the past, we have newer techniques, We have newer technologies, and we have better local anesthesia. So all of those things compounded can make for an experience that's not any different than having a filling or even having your teeth cleaned. It should really be completely painless.
Yeah, I think it's really important. I had a dentist as a young boy. It was a bad experience, and I stayed away from the dentist for a while and paid a price. I've had really good dental care throughout
my adult life. I was fortunate enough to have a couple of great friends who became my dentist, and I had to get over myself at a lot of I think legitimate apprehensions, But again, I was a child in the late nineteen fifties dealing with the dentist who they would give you some he would give you Novacan, and the next thing you felt was his knee on your chest as the drill was going. And I was saying, like, as an eight year old doc, shouldn't wait a little while. Oh, no,
it's no problem, And yeah it was. It was a huge problem. So we have moved out of I don't like to refer to the nineteen fifties as dark ages, but I think we've gone way beyond the type of care people received from dentists, you know, some fifty or sixty years ago, and it's improved sprentially.
Yeah, and you're one hundred percent correct, And you know, I'm just a few years behind you. Dan and I experienced the same thing. And then later in life, I ended up meeting a root canal and I went to an end of Donnis and it was really a very positive experience. I was in pain when I went there and not feeling great, and he took care of that and the procedure was painless. But I felt exactly the
same way. And that's what encouraged me to go to dental school and ultimately to specialize in endodonics, was that experience. So you are correct, it was very different. I'm not, are you calling it the dark Agency. You know, it was only fifty years ago, but you know, from a tech now standpoint, we are so much further than we were back then.
Yeah, I believe me. Sometimes I go to the dentist and now who I have, and I walk out and I say, it didn't hurt. Why did it hurt in the old days? Anyway, I thank you for what you do, and I thank you for your demeanor and your approach because I know how important seeing your dentist, you know, every six months, and getting your teeth cleaned and making sure that they stayed clean because it presents, it prevents
problems going forward. I understand that there are millions of Americans who have lost all of their teeth, and you know that to me is a complete tragedy that many Americans are walking around with all of most of their teeth missing, because it's such an impact on the rest of their life. As you said earlier, they don't smile, they don't they're not able often to eat the food they enjoy, and it is a deleterious effect on their lifestyle. So thanks for joining us tonight, and thanks for clarifying
what antidontics can actually do. It's not a word we should fear. It's a word that we should take advantage of.
In the yep, exactly right. And if your listeners, you don't should need root canal therapy, they can find us. They don't need to come through their dentist. They could just go to find my end adonis dot com and find a specialist in their area that can take care of the issues. And you know, you are correct. We do see a lot of people walking around with our teeth, but that's better than it used to be, so we
aren't getting our message out. And in addition to that, if patients have not seen the dentist, it's never too late. You can always start and we could save most of their teeth and they can keep them for the rest of their lives. So I don't want people to think that, you know, they have to give up. They can go to the dentist, get treatment and retain what they have.
Doctor Stephen Katz. Very great presentation, and I mean that seriously. I was even apprehensive talking to you, but you have put my mind at ease and hopefully a lot of my listeners all up and down the Eastern Seaboard. Doctor Stephen Katz, what's that website one more time with people can go to if they need an answered Auntist.
Yes, it's find my endidonist dot com.
Couldn't be easier. Couldn't be easier. Thank you so much, doctor Katz. Look forward to talking again again.
Yeah, it was great to being on. Thank you so much. BOBBYE.
Welcome. When we get back, we're going to talk about another problem, not well maybe a problem for us. We're going to talk about Cape Cod and the great white sharks that we've become accustomed to, and we're going to talk with the president of the Atlantic Shark Expeditions, doctor Neil Hammerschlog, and answer the question what would happen to Cape Cod if the Great whites disappear. We'll be back right after this on Nightside.
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
With us is doctor Neil hammas Schlog. He is a the president of the Atlantic Shark Expeditions. First of all, doctor Hammerschlag, tell us exactly what is it Atic Shock Expeditions. Is this something that you're involved in professionally or can people use the Atlantic Shock Expeditions and take trips out to the briny deep and see some white shocks up close and personal.
Hi there. Yeah, it's actually a bit of both. So we do bring people out from the public to get on a boat. They can view the sharks from the boat or actually take the plunge in our shark cage and get face to face on the waters of predators. And it all supports research that we're doing out on these sharks while.
On the boat.
All right, so now we know that you do get up close and personal. So the question is, and I'm going to ask you when did the sharks? When are white sharks off the coast of the cave. I'm going to go really to the fundamentals Initially, when do they arrive and when do they depart for warmer waters?
Yeah, so they're they're a bit like a like a snowbird. So they spend the kind of summer and fall off the cape, and then when the waters get cold, they head back down south to over winter.
So we're talking about, say the fourth of July to the end of October. When will you see your first white this year white shark off the cape.
So I don't work in the cape. I work in Nova Scotia, So I work in Nova Scotia, just a bit north of the shelf of Maine, and so we see sharks there coming in around July, August, September, but it's slightly earlier off off the cape, so you can probably expected to see that in June or right.
Okay, so they are migratory. That's great. So now my question then is, and my producer says that there's a story here sharks scientists show what may happen to cape called if great whites disappear. I don't assume great whites are going to disappear anytime soon. And our focus is the cape because we're so familiar with the cape. What would happen or what could cause cause white sharks to no longer migrate up here, great whites to no longer
migrate up there? How significant of a change in water temperature would we need some here in New England or in the southeast Canada.
Well, you'd actually be surprised these animals. And I don't think it's going to be water temperature that would have a dramatic effect. I mean the I think what we're seeing in other place of the world is that these sharks are long lived and they mature laid life and they have very few offspring. So if there's a lot of all of a sudden they start being captured in fisheries and suffering or being killed some way, being removed, they could quickly quickly disappear.
So they need to So you're telling me, is they need to be protected.
Yeah, I mean they Fortunately they are protected in the US and in Canada. And what we're seeing is their numbers are healthy. Right now they've increased and right now they are healthy.
Great, it was not always that way. Was there a period of time when Captain Ahab was running around that the whites h.
I mean, yeah, their numbers definitely dropped in January seventies, eighties and nineties, where you know, at least the early nineties until they are protected in the late nineties. But in the seventeen and eighties, saw you know, these sharks the numbers decline.
Okay, Now the next question that I have is, clearly they're part of the ecosystem, a big part of the ecosystem. Your sense is that right now they're in pretty good shape in terms of numbers, and that they are replacing the sharks are replacing themselves. What do we need to not that we need to worry about things, but what are you most concerned about in terms of making sure that the great white sharks are welcomed and comfortable up in your neck of the woods and down in our
neck of the woods by cape cod. What worries you at night if anything?
You know, you know, I think while animals can be protected on paper, that doesn't always you know, come out in reality. And so you know, there's a possibility that these these sharks could be targeted by people, you know, trophy hunters trying to catch the big one, you know,
get a set of jaws. They're being caught. They could be caught, you know, unintentionally, you know, entanglement and things like yeah, traps or lobster pots, and then you know they could be killed, you know, when they leave protected waters and being taken in international waters. So you know, there's always that fear there.
We have right now a part of about thirty whales which are frolicking off of Cape cod, and that particular species of whale only has about three hundred and fifty worldwide. So there's been some cautions sent out on the last day or so. According to the local newscast for anybody who's out there on the water, particularly in the Cape Cod Canal, to go no faster than ten knots, So they don't, you know, run in and run their boats and hurt someone. What is the estimate of the population
of great white sharks worldwide or North America? Does anyone have their arms around how many of these beautiful fish exist in our world?
Not?
Really.
There's some estimates that restarch To or Atlantic White Shark Conservancy estimated in a study that there might be as many as eight hundred individuals that have visited Cape Cod in the last several years. Other areas, it seems like most areas of world where there have been estimates, it seems to be the number like up the Luck Australia or New Zealand. The numbers seem to hover around a
thousand in various different locations. But in terms of the total population size, that doesn't mean that's as many sharks in one single time. That just needs like kind of the whole population size.
I know that I believe it's out of woods hole here down on Cape Cod. I believe that they were able to get out and actually tag these sharks and follow them. What their their migration pattern is and they actually can almost name them. That's that's the how close the research is that the relationships that develop between the researches and the sharks. I'm sure it's something similar to that where you are up in Canada. Yeah.
Absolutely, we're trying to monitor, you know, through our research and ecotourism. We're trying to get a handle on what kind of the the population statuses and if it's stable, increasing, decreasing, and also identify just areas that are important for these sharks, because no one you have to protect the sharks, but also the habitats are important. To do this, we try
to identify the individuals. We track the individuals and so we can see like where they're, the places they like to go, how frequently they go there, and if they return there from your year.
Does the hamislide? Just one final question we follow during the summertime shar activity. I'm sure you have that that app on your phone as well. What's the average life expectancy of a great white shark, you know, in our in our part of the world. Is it twenty thirty years or less or more.
You're gonna be blown away? It's eighty years old, about eighty years old to be their long lived species. That's the thing is they only reach they only reach sexual maturity. They only become adults when they're you know, close to thirty, which is why you know. That means they don't reproduce until they're in their thirties pretty much. So that's why you know it doesn't take a lot of removals. If you start pishing them out before they can reproduce, then you know, can have detrimental impacts.
Great, well, look, doctor Hammerschlock, you have answered all my questions. I thank you very much, President of Atlantic Shark Expeditions. If there are some folks who are looking to visit you, what's the website.
Well, yeah, we'd love that. We'd love to host you on a case diving per science. It's Atlantic Shark e XP dot com. Atlantic Shark exp dot com.
That's perfect. It makes it simple, easier than to spell expeditions Atlantic Shark e XP all one word dot com. Doctor Neil Hamishlock, thank you very much for your time tonight. I really enjoyed our conversation.
Thank you, You're welcome.
We had the news coming up at the bottom of the hour and after that we're going to talk with a reporter from the Washington Post about whether or not brown rice actually is healthier than white rice, and the way the question has been posed, I suspect we may have a surprise for an answer. We'll find out on the other side of the news at the bottom of the hour.
It's night signed Boston's News Radio.
All right, we are delighted to welcome from the Washington Post reporter by the name of Teddy and then a mena bar. Have I gotten that name anywhere close close to correct? Teddy?
Yeah?
Dead on, it's really fanatic having all right.
Well, thank you. The Teddy was pretty easy, that one I got, uh, And you're right for the Post, and we're going to talk about whether brown rice is actually healthier than white rice. Is food your specialty or you're a general assignment reporter and this investigative report is was assigned to you or you came up with the idea?
Yeah, So I've been reporting on contaminants and foods, specifically having that lead and arsenic and I reported this story with Anahad O'Connor, who is our food and nutrition columnist and reporter, And so that's how we tackled both sides of this question of you know, whether brown rice is in fact healthier.
So I believe that the story that you wrote concluded that brown rice has more arsenic than white rice, But is it still the better choice? I think that was the headline.
Yeah.
Yes, there are some influencers on Instagram or TikTok who you know, raised concerns about the level of arsenic in brown rice. And it is true that brown rice, because it has that brand, that outer layer, it does have higher levels of arsenic than white rice. But you know, really the folks we spoke with, so the researchers who really study rice and rice patties and heavy metal contamination, you know, they just said that for the average adult, you would need to eat an excessive amount of brown
rice for this to be a concern. The one caveat here that I do just want to stress is, you know where the attention is. It is for babies and toddlers who you know, rice based toddler food can you know, really be kind of the first foods a small child might be eating, And you just want to be conscious of, you know, diversifying the types of grains that you're feeding a small kid because they can be more, you know, at risk of you know, having you know, too much arsenic because they're smaller.
Okay, So my question is when we think about arsenic, we think that arsenic is a poison like hemlock. How does a arsenic find its way into rice, whether it's brown or white? Is this just a function of nature?
Yeah, this is This is I think the most fascinating part of the reporting. So arsenic is particularly good at getting into rice grain because of how we grow rice, so rice patties. We flood fields and the soil isn't exposed to oxygen. So the natural amount of arsenic that's already in the soil converts to a more soluble form of arsenic that the rice, the roots of the rice plant absorb it. Actually, the rice actually thinks that this is a nutrient and the arsenic goes through the roots
into the grain. And so that's why you have higher levels of arsenic and rice than you do quina or barley or wheat.
So is rice And I'm not an expert, I'm not an exp for an agriculture. Is brown rice and white rice rice just a function of where it is grown? Or are there rice patties that are developed to produce a certain color of rice or or is it just you know, it just so happens that in this particular part of the world it mostly is brown in this particular part of the world. How does that work? Yeah?
Yeah, So you know, there are absolutely different species of rice, and you know, different soils, even in the US are going to have different levels of arsenic. So actually parts of the southern southeast US deal more with arsenic in the soil than say California. But to get to the point of your question, the difference between white rice and
brown rice is just processing. So white rice is a bread rice kernel that has been processed more to remove that outer layer and strip it of that brown what's called brand.
Okay, So so what you're saying is that a kernel uh and maybe I hope the word colonel is correct. A kernel of white rice, uh and brown rice is essentially the same. When you take the the outer covering off the brown, the brown, the colonel of brown rice will look the same. Is That's what I think I'm hearing you say.
Yeah, yeah, that's correct. And they do some polishing too to the white rice to give it that But yeah, that's that's the process well.
That's interesting. And this, this story that that you've worked on with your colleague is a consequence of what some people I guess who are not necessarily rice experts, have theorized and and you and wanted to prove or disprove what their theories were. That's what it sounds to me was the genesis of the story. Yeah.
Well, a lot of my job is what's the health information people see online? And how can we report the facts, how can we go to the experts to clarify or to dig deeper? And so that was the case with this one.
So overall you were going to I think a unique position. Overall the research that you did, does it confirm what the Food and Drug Administration would know or are you actually going deeper onto issues like this and perhaps others that you've covered which are even more informed than what our FDA knows about not only this product but other products.
It's an interesting question. I would say that you know, the SDA is definitely aware of arsenic in rice, and it regulates the amounts of arsenic in rice cereals for infants at a metric called one hundred parts per billion, but it doesn't specifically have the same guidance for you know, the white or brown rice we buy in the store. Comparatively in the EU, there are you know, in the UK there are more specific regulations for you know, the rice you'd buy off the shelf.
So that's all to say, you know, they're they're aware of it.
There is some regulation, but it's it's not as specific as it is in the EU.
Last question, since since you're an expert in this field, what is your take on the appointment of that the American surgeon, doctor Martin McCarry out of Johns Hopkins as the Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration. You know, again, he's a surgeon. I'm trying to reconcile what his expertise as a surgeon, uh will will will benefit the Food and Drug Administration. I know he's a very smart guy.
I'm just curious if if you've looked at his background and said, hey, it's a pretty good pick, or maybe it's a pick that still has to be evaluated.
You know, I have not you know, admittedly interviewed or like spoken with people in or around the FDA about I you know, my job is really more just to keep reporting what we know about you know as the SDA rolls out new regulations or the aged as rolls out new announcements, like what's the broader context here? What does the science say so far and so anyways? That doesn't directly answer your question.
That's right, Look, honest answer. I've asked a question. We don't script questions. You do not have my questions at events, but I couldn't pass on that opportunity. Teddy, Amanda bar thank you so much. Love to have you back. It was fascinating interview.
Thank you, yeah, thanks for having me.
Very welcome. When we get back, President Trump has signed an executive order to relax some of his twenty five percent tariffs on imported automobiles and auto parts. We'll talk about it with John Vincent, senior editor for Vehicle Testing at US News Autos Team. Coming back on Night's Side right after this.
It's Night Side, Boston's News Radio.
Well, I think all of us have learned a lot about tariffs in the last month or so. Someone who knows a lot about tariff is my next guest, John Vincent. John, welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir?
I am good for you tonight.
You're probably very sought after interview. These days, you're the senior editor for vehicle Testing at US News Autos Teams. This is a it's been a very interesting month. We're now in May. A lot of us are thankful that we're out of April. We do know that the President imposed some tariffs on April second Liberation Day and stock market went down around five or six percent across the board. It has kind of clawed its way back, and now the President seems to be relaxing some of his twenty
five percent tariffs on imported automobiles and auto parts. What's going on?
So they're relaxed, they're not gone, and they help certain companies a whole lot more than other companies. Basically, what they're doing is throwing the mestic auto companies a lifeline so they have a little bit more time to you know, create their new supplier pipelines in the Wes. You know, building a factory isn't as simple as just building a building. You have to develop all the supplier pipelines to serve that factory and that's not easy to do or quick.
So today, I don't know when he signed this order. Was that this order signed today?
Was it yesterday or yesterday.
Yesterday, okay, today, the stock market across the board seemed to have a pretty good day. They've had. It's had a lot of good days. Are you now, I know you're not a stock market expert, but in view of the impact that these tariffs had initially had on the market, the turbulence of the early part of the month of April, are you surprised that the market has come back this quickly after such a down, downspike.
You know, like you said, I am a little surprised at how parts come back because we're not out of the woods and the effects of these tariff shed and we still don't know, you know, exactly how much they're going to cost. The market hates uncertainty, and we still have a lot of uncertainty out there.
How tough is it going to be? It's It's one thing to say if if a company, an automaker is shipping in a car from that that's been produced made in Mexico or Japan or wherever in its entirety, Okay, you're going to hit it with the tariff. But as I understand that a lot of the vehicles that are made even here in the US are made with parts that come from other countries around the world, so that it's not going to be like either a zero percent
tariff or one hundred percent tariff on some cars. There's going to be some percentage of the value of the of the products in the car. How who is going to decide that? And how difficult is it going to You're going to have to have everybody walking around with a calculator.
So, yes, the math is going to be complicated, but fortunately most of it is done already. There is an index that comes out on a rolling basis that talks about the American arts content on every car sold in the US, and it's actually something that's included on the minor ownly sticker, the windowstick you see the price on the side of the car. There is no event US
built car there. The highest percentage is eighty five percent, and it happens to be on two Tesla models, which it's kind of funny because you're doct to pay any tariffs if your car is built in Eighty five percent of US parts kind.
Of worked out pretty well, fantastical.
Well for someone funny where they found that number.
I have no idea. You sound somewhat skeptical but I'm not going to put you to the test of that skepticism.
Ahead skeptical Okay.
So so the question then is, uh, President Trump has tried to sell this as a way to revitalize the US car industry. I guess only time will tell, But he's also tried to sell it as a way in which companies that are producing high end products like automobiles. And I can't think of a higher end product that is that is sent into the United States that those tariffs will anure to the benefit of the US treasury.
Is that So is that an aspect that we're overlooking or is that overstated in terms of how much good it will do From just a purely moneyful perspective.
I think long term it's overstate a perfect perfectly don't tariff collect any tax money because a tariff is designed to make the products so expensive the consumers opt for different products. So in that case, you know, those imports
stop and they don't collect tariffs. Unfortunately, unless you cut off fifty percent of the auto indugury, they can't just stop, you know, bringing cars in, consumers will see price increases, whether the car is affected by directly affected by tariffs or not they will see price increases because let's say the MOTHS to c X five goes up by two thousand dollars. I think Honda's not going to rate the price of the Honda CRB by a thousand because they have that much more room to compete.
Sure. Yeah, well, I think that corporations will take advantage of the marketplace. I think is what you're saying. I mean, that's intuitively what they do. I hope that that that gets monitored so it's minimized, and I hope that consumers are aware of it. And I know that you folks will follow that. And information is normally sunlight is the greatest disinfectant, but information is a great disincentive for any
of these games to be played. I look at supermarkets right now and I see products that are have gone up thirty forty percent, and I know what they are. They're not complicated products. They're products that are produced in the United States and on a very small level. I think companies are taking advantage of the political atmospherics. And I think that's what you're saying.
Yep. And when you look at the auto industry, the automotive cycles take a lot longer than a four year election cycle. By the time you cite a plant, get that plant up and running, you know, it's taking more than four years, and the cars built in that plant will be more expensive because through robots, robotic tools that work in that plant aren't made in America and they're going to be subject to teriffs.
Okay, So my question is then if this is not going to innure as a as a short term political benefit to President Trump. Most politicians are smart enough to do things that are short term political benefits. I'm gonna cut your taxes. I'm going to do this. I'm gonna chicken in every pot whatever, a car in every garage.
Why do you think he's doing it? Do you think he really believes this as a and as what he says, or do you think he's just looking to to make a statement and and create and leave a legacy.
I think he's trying to leave a legacy. But I'm you know, not going to get into, you know, what's going on in his mind. I think a lot of people are making a lot of money with the swings in the stock market, which sounds simple, but you know, I think there are a lot of smart people in the white house, and I'm not sure that they're, you know, ignoring the swings that they're seeing.
Well, we should track that. That should be tracked. John, We're flat out of time. Love to have you back as this whole story develops throughout the summer and into the fall. I hope you'd be kind enough to come back with us. We don't again, we don't script questions here. I'm asking you questions that I hope the questions that are in the mind of my audience. And I appreciate you being as honest and candid with your answers as you were this evening, and hope to do it.
We love to come back anytime.
Thank you, John, appreciate John Vincent of US News their Auto's team. When we come back, we are going to talk with a former state representative. It's a cautionary tale, but it's actually a story that I think is a positive story despite what this state representative, David Nangel, went through. We will explain when we come back.