It's night.
Signed with Dan Ray WBZ Constance Radio.
All right, we have not talked about guns, the Second Amendment, the right that people have to own guns, not only here in Massachusetts, but anywhere around the country because of the Second Amendment. There was a piece of legislation passed in the Great and General Court. It was House built forty eight eighty five, and eventually it became it was signed into law by Governor Heay, chapter one thirty five
of the Acts of twenty twenty four. And I was surprised to learn, which I did not realize, that there is an effort now underway by some folks who are interested in the civil rights of gun owners to basically get sufficient number of signatures to suspend the implementation of that law. It might get a little confusing, But the law was signed by Governor here in late July, I think it was July twenty third, and it goes into
effect on October twenty third and normal ninety days. But but but if the folks who now are trying to collect signatures are able to gather legitimate signatures of somewhere around forty nine thousand Massachusetts voters, it's possible that this law actually could be stopped in its tracks unless the governor then were to issue an emergency preamble. So we're going to get into the weeds a little bit, but we're going to try to start off as simply as possible.
My guest is Toby Leary. He's the co owner of the Cape Gun Works. Toby Leary, Welcome to night Side. How are you.
I'm doing great, Dan, Thanks so much for having me on.
Mom My pleasure, My pleasure. Let's talk about this piece of legislation. I know it was a battle, and I would consider it to be what's called an omnibus piece of legislation, meaning it really does do a lot of things, a lot of things with which I'm sure you disagree. Is there any part of this legislation that you look at and say, hey, that's not a bad idea.
There's probably a couple things in this that makes sense. But the problem is the way they went about this, to say you got to take the good with the bad is no in position. If you're in favor of freedom or the Second Amendment or your constitutional rights. It's like, you know, you could say, hey, it wouldn't it be good if we could keep people from certain that have a certain predilection to going to church and doing this.
But in order to do that, you've got to make sure that, you know, we restrict everyone who's going to church on Sunday, and that would be unfair to the people who aren't the problems. So that's my biggest problem with this bill.
Okay, So let's get let's get to some of the specifics. I assume if I say that you see this bill as not only a dissolution of your civil rights, your Second Amendment rights, there must be some really onerous aspects of the bill. As the bill was signed by Governor Healy, she was talking a lot about getting rid of ghost guns,
and we can get in a discussion of that. But give me three or four examples that most people perhaps are not aware of the law which is going to go into effect in Massachusetts in October of this year, October twenty third, unless you get forty nine thousand plus signatures. Give me, what are the things that most people would be on your side? What are the most onerous obligations?
Yeah, so I would say the most onerous dan is the fact that they re defined what a firearm is. It used to be just a pistol or a short arrowed rifle or a short barreled shotgun was by definition considered a firearm. But now they've redefined rifles and shotguns as firearm. And there's something unique to Massachusetts. California, I believe is the only other state that has something that
we have called a approved firearms roster. So in order for a gun a firearm to be sold in Massachuset, Massachusetts, it has to go through certain testing labs and be dropped and burned, and it costs that manufacturers a huge amount of money to do this. They have to send five different models of each gun, plus I think a check for ten thousand dollars to the testing lab for each model that they want to sell in the state of firearm. And so that really only ever applied to
the handguns. So we have a special roster that the state puts out and says what guns you're allowed to to sell or buy from a licensed gun shop in this state. And a lot of people didn't even know that. Like I get people come in my shop every day saying, Oh, I want to buy a Taurus this, or a Kimber that or a glock pistol. And we have to say, I'm sorry, You've done a lot of research. You know a gun, you want to buy it, and you can't
buy it here. Well, now, as of October twenty fourth, if we don't get this this bill suspended, I won't be able to sell any rifle or shotgun in the state of Massachusetts. Whether it's a pump action, a bolt action, a single shot of semi automatic, it doesn't matter because there's no roster for long guns, only the handgun roster or the approved firearms roster. And I highly doubt manufacturers are going to go into this panic mode to start sending guns for testing. So that's a huge one that
most people. I don't even think the legislature that asked this realized they did that.
Because let me make sure understand that, let me make let me make sure so someone comes into your gun shop and says, gee, I remember President Biden a few years ago was talking about how people could defend themselves and defend their homes with a shotgun. The President said he has a shotgun in his home in Delaware, and if someone is out there, you know, and you're concerned who they are, he says, just fire off that shotgun. And most people will do you remember when when the President said.
That I do. Yeah, He told his wife Jill that if you hear something in the night, go out on a balcony and fire two blasts out of your double barrel shotgun and and you know, let the world know that you're armed in dangerous And he was telling people to go out and buy a shotgun, a double barrel shotgun, and they As of October twenty fourth, I wouldn't even be able to take Joe Biden's advice for sending people out the door with a double barrel shotgun from.
Home, okay, or just so I understand that. So if someone wants to buy a double barrel shotgun from you, from you tomorrow, you know, from you tomorrow, that's okay. But as of October twenty fourth, you would you would be breaking this law if you sold a double barrel shotgun.
Correct. Okay, that's and that's just one example. But it's every long gun, whether it's a shotgun or a rifle. And it doesn't matter whether it's semi automatic, single shot, bolt action, or break action. It does not matter. There's not a long gun I'll be able to sell as of October twenty fourth.
Okay, So what would be the simplest long gun A twenty two? What would be the simplest long gun that you sell right now that that most people would assume if they wanted to go hunting or as Mitt Romney said, shoot some environments in the backyard. You know what sort of long gun besides as a shotgun? Will you have to stop selling as of the twenty fourth of October, assuming this law well is not suspended.
Yeah, literally, it's every single gun, every single long gun, until they start adding them to the roster, or they amend the law, or they or they come out with
this grandfathered list of guns that could be sold. But either way, it's a piece of legislation or an amendment to this legislation that's going to have to be signed, or we're just going to have to wait for the guns to be added to the roster, which could take years, it could take decades, and some manufacturers probably won't even participate. So a simple bolt action twenty two I couldn't sell.
Okay. Is there another state in the country that has a law? You view this law as being onerous not only to you as the owner of a gun store, gun shop, but you also view it as being onerous to people who want to come in and purchase a weapon from you, and you know you got to do a background check on it. And it's not as if you're selling stuff out to anybody who comes in have you've got to do a background check. I get that.
Is there any state that has adopted a law, in your opinion, as onerous as this law.
No, we are now in standalone territory in Massachusetts. I would say we've competed with the other eight states that are what I consider really anti gun in their posture towards our lawful gun owners, and California has historically been probably the most anti gun. But with that one part of the law that I just mentioned, that alone sets
us apart. There's no other state that's gone to the only thing that can kind of compare is when you go back to pre Heller in District of Columbia, which had an outright there on all handguns that was similar, and that Supreme Court ruling said that you can't ban guns that are in common and ordinary use. Yet here we are in twenty twenty four and the legislature is doing just that. So yeah, definitely.
Case was the Washington, DC case. And then there was another case was it McDonald out of Illinois where a homeowner wanted to carry a gun and he was told even though he was legally licensed, he couldn't carry it off his own property. I believe you know a lot of the restrictive laws have been shot down by the US Supreme Court. Let's take a little bit of a break. I want folks to, on whatever side of the issue
they are, to call in. I remind people that a guest on my show is the equivalent of a guest in my home. And so whether you agree or disagree with my guest, Toby Leary, the co owner of Cape Gun Works, please be polite and respectful. The number six one seven, two, five four to ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
Uh.
His group is called the Civil Rights Coalition because they view this as a civil right, that their Second Amendment rights are being curtailed here in Massachusetts. We'll get into the sign that you drive a little bit, and if you have any questions, if you want to challenge Toby, you're more than welcome and do that. I will be the person who will make sure that people call up and ask questions. If you want to preface the question
with a comment, that's not a problem. But at the same time, we're not looking for callers to make five minute speeches on either side of the issue. We'll be back on night Side six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty Coming back on Nightside.
Now, back to Dan Way live from the Window World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
If you want to protect yourself, get a double barrow shotgun, have the shelves a twelve gay shotgun. And I promise you, as I told my wife, we live in an area that's wooded and somewhat secluded, said Jill. If there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here, walk out, put that double barrel shotgun and fired to blasts outside the house. I promise you, who's ever coming in is not going You don't need an AR fifteen.
Well, that is what we talked about last hour, and my producer Rob Brooks was able to find that, Toby, you should use that in the commercials to suspend the law here in Massachusetts. Here Joe Biden basically advocating and you're telling me that under this new law, which goes into effect on October twenty fourth, people who do not have a double barrel shotgun will not be able to buy a double barrow shotgun in Massachusetts. Am I correcting in hearing that correctly from you?
Yes, you're one hundred percent correct. And as I pointed out, I believe most of the legislature that voted to this bill doesn't even realize that's voted into this bill by just the simple redefinition of all pistols, rifles, and shotguns as firearms makes them now subject to this approved firearms roster. So that is, you know, as I mentioned, the most onerous and the most offensive and obviously unconstitutional, and you
couldn't even argue Dan that. Well, don't worry, because we're going to get this roster together that's going to start to name the guns that you can buy. Because that doesn't play out in the justice system like justice delayed is justice denied. If I can't go in and purchase and exercise my right to keep them there arms, you're delaying my right to keep them there arms, and therefore
that's my rights being denied. And that's the one thing that they never consider when they pass this unconstitutional law. Is that, yeah, you might be trying to slow down bad guys from get guns, but in the process you're slowing down good guys from getting guns, and that's unconstitutional. How about we focus on the bad guys.
It doesn't make that's a novel idea. Have you folks in the gun rights groups in Massachusetts have you ever ever have you ever done a survey of the great in general court, there generally are two hundred they're four hundred forty senators and one hundred and sixty members of the House of Representatives. What percentage of those individuals do you believe have a skin in this game, actually own a gun or have ever fired a gun? Do you
do you have any idea? My suspicion is that it would be probably a paltry few.
It's very few. We I've never surveyed them per se. But if you go by the way they voted on this bill, it was you know, overwhelming, it's really a hyper majority. It's not even a super majority. So the any type of thing that's proffered by the the you know, President of the Senate or the Speaker of the House, people get in line and they and they do it. I guess there's a little exception for the people that live out in the western part of the state with
the big hunting community. They're allowed to vote against the bill so that they can stay in office.
Yeah, thats what happens there is they can Yeah, what happens there is almost like they get what they called the Hall pass. Yeah, it's like, Okay, you can vote off on this because we know this will cost you your your position, but the next ten tax bills that come up, we're counting your vote as a yes. So it's it's a big part of a game that is
that has played up there. And so, yeah, and you formed what's called the Civil Rights Coalition because you view this as a civil right, a right given to you in the Bill of Rights, the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. I assume that there would be not only an effort to get these signatures. You want to get it on the ballot in twenty twenty six, but you also hope that you can suspend the law if you can get the requisite number of legitimate signatures, which
is underway now. Later on we'll talk about how people can help you with this. But might this all be for naught. If all of a sudden, Governor Healy says, I'm going to attach now, can she attach sort of almost ex post facto and emergency preamble to a bill that she signed in July, which to which she did not attach an emergency preamble as far as you understand.
Yeah, that's my understanding of it. I mean, early on there was some confusion about if she was going to do it, did she have thirty days, ninety days? And now the Secretary of the Commonwealth has informed us that she could literally do it all the way up to
the day before the twenty twenty sixth election. And so if that's the case, I find that incredibly ironic, Dan, that the governor, who is a member of the Democrat Party that you know, constantly pounds the pulpit and says that, you know, everything is a threat to democracy, when here, under Article forty eight of the Massachusetts Constitution, we have this provision for the people to get involved if they don't agree with the bill that has been asked by
the legislature, to take back their rights and basically suspend the bill. I find that to be incredibly ironic. If somebody who who wants to, you know, make sure that they don't get in the way of democracy. Then goes and gets in the way of democracy when you know, we get fifty or seventy or one hundred thousand people in the state saying, hey, let let's let let's do something that you wouldn't allow us to do, which is have an actual conversation. See what's actually in the bill.
Because this came out of conference committee on July sixteenth, was passed into law July seventeenth by the Senate and the House, and then signed into law by Governor Heey on the twenty third. It was less than a week later, So it wasn't even twenty four hours from when it came out of conference committee to when it was signed.
For all of you, for all of the the molasses like progress that occurs up at the State House on so many good pieces of legislation. When they want to get something passed overnight, it gets done. It always can get done. It has to be very frustrating. So you're basically trying to set up two things here. One, if you can get forty nine thousand signatures by October twenty third, actually you need to get them well before because they have to be certified at local town halls and city halls.
We get that. If you get the requisite number of signatures, you might get this bill suspended for a period of time. But even if the governor were to issue an emergency preamble, you still hope to get this on the vallot in front of voters in the next general election, not this November, but November of twenty twenty six. Correct.
Correct, And that's a very important point because number One, it'll give the people the ability to look at what has been passed. It'll give us two years to talk about it, to explain the type of thing, like we
just talked about, that their rights have been violated. And also, here's something that a lot of people don't know, like when the legislature raised their right hand and swore to protect the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic, and then conspire behind closed doors in their conference committees or in their you know, whatever departments they're in, and then they walk in and they become the enemy of
the Constitution and pass this law. There's nothing in the Constitution that gives them the privilege to violate your right of any kind. And so, you know, That's something that no one's really talking about. Is you can't point to anywhere in the founding documents in the state Constitution or the or the founding the Federal Constitution where it says they have the privilege to violate your rights.
In fact, and of course you will. You always have the opportunity to try to go into court. And again that's that's cumber Cinema can be expensive, but there are some other opportunities. My guest is Toby Leary. He's the co owner of Cape Gun Works. He is here not in the capacity as the owner of Cape Gun Works.
He's here in this capacity and his position with the Civil Rights Coalition, which is attempting to gather there's a forty nine thousand legitimate signatures between now and sometime in early October to suspend this piece of legislation, which Toby and others see as extraordinarily onerous. We'll take a break, got the news coming up, and we're going to go right to phone calls on the other side, So light them up. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty
or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. My name is Dan Ray. Whatever your point of view, you're more than welcome coming back on Nightside.
It's night Side with Ray Boston's News Radio.
My guest is Toby Larry, co owner of Cape Gun Works, and his website is the Civil Rights Coalition. If folks want to get more information, Uh what is the actual addresses, it's simply the Civil Rights Coalition all one word dot org. What's what's the address?
It's the Civil Rights Coalition dot com. And there's another uh yeah, and there's another site which is fight Back m a dot org and they're both very similar. But the fight back and a dot org site is one that was created first as kind of a shorter term website to get us through the ballot initiative and the signature drive and the Civil Rights Coalition dot com one is the longer end goal in place for getting us all the way to election day.
Okay, in twenty twenty six, let's get to the phones. Let me go to bucking in Boston. Tony Buck, how are you tonight?
Hey? Really good?
And Toby, I really appreciate your work and I'm nobody that's nice night sight. No, no, no, I just wanted to say that I enjoyed going to his place. All right, Why did you ask, and here's what I.
Have to say.
I've been associated with guns since the early sixties as a boy scoup. I've had shotguns and long long twenty two rifles, of course, And so I don't have one now because my wife doesn't want it. Okay, I gave it to my cousin. But here's my point from what Toby is saying. Okay, it feels motivating to get a shotgun now, Okay, I mean, that's my feeling, not going to do it, but it really bothers me that we
have such a legislation like that. And I apologize, Dan, I didn't mean to, uh, you know, say anything untoured.
Okay, nobody, but please.
Don't use my show to advertise other talk shows. Okay. People used to call up on the morning to talk about this guy who's on this program. It just, you know what, it's something that that insults me professionally.
It's as simple as though, I'm sorry, you know, I never wanted to assault you.
Man.
You're the best, Okay.
Okay, so you're you are supportive of Toby's efforts if you need a shotgun, I think if I'm if I'm hearing what Toby's saying, you need to go out and get yourself a shotgun before October twenty first, soby what advice would you give Buck?
My wife.
I don't want to interfere in your marriage relationship, but I think.
Seven years a wonderful marriage.
Well, then then don't get a shotgun. You heard the President of the United States we just played Joe Biden telling his wife. Sure you know so, I don't know what other endorsement you would want. You want to play that again, so Buck can hear it and and play and tell his wife about this rob hit hit President Biden one more time. And if those getting.
Double barrel shotgun have the shells at twelve game shotgun. And I promise you, as I told my wife, we live in an area that's wooded and somewhat secluded, said Jill. If there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here, walk out, put that double barrel shotgun and fired to blasts outside the house. I promise you was ever coming in is not going You don't need a AR fifteen.
Okay, play that for your wife. Appreciate the call, Buck, Thank you.
Much, appreciate, Thank you, sir.
Bye, great night. Let me go next to us. Suzanne is in Newton. Suzanne, how are you tonight? Welcome?
Well, thank you for taking by call. I haven't always lived in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. But let me say, if you don't come, the deer population and the fall, they will starve. As a kid in summer camp in Pennsylvania, I got my Mark Marksmanship medal by shooting live bullets and to a target. So I believe Massachusetts should get with.
I don't know.
Oh, you support, your support, what you support what Toby is trying to do. Suzanne. I appreciate your support, appreciate your call. Thank you very much. Let me keep rolling here, going to go to Joe and Salem. Uh, I assume it's Salem, Massachusetts.
Jo, go right ahead, Yeah, that's correct.
Ass Hey, I'm not a gun owner, but I'm not anti guy I set when I was a kid. And uh and I uh, you know friend that friends of supports shoot good friends and relatives. And I actually do some business with the gun manufacturer manufacturing. But I hadn't really heard of this law until now, and a little confused. But all what you were saying earlier, one hand, I heard you can't get it own a double barrel gun come next month.
Then I heard it.
I mean double barrel shotguns that I heard. You can't have any shotguns or any right bles, what exactly this banning? Because it's I've been listening for a while and it's kind of confusing to me.
Well, go ahead, Toby, why don't you take that's a good question. We want to clarify the great question. Thank you for that question. Joe. You're the best caller of the night so far, go ahead, go ahead of you.
So yeah, to be to be clear, it doesn't mean you can't own them. It just means going forward, you can't buy them until either the new roster comes out where they amend the law, and that roster could literally take years to come out because there's so many long guns like like, for instance, the Remington eight seventy shotgun. It's like the shot gun to get if you're a hunter or a home defense It's just a very versatile,
all around shotgun. I'll no longer be able to sell it until it's either added to a specific state approved weapons roster after various testing is done by the manufacturers at an independent testing lab just to make sure it's safe for the resident of Massachusetts to buy which when all of this legislation which goes back to nineteen ninety eight about the approved Weapons Roster was passed, if you look at like Freedom and Information Act questions, it was
all done to just be a backdoor gun ban and to just slow down people from being able to purchase guns. And the same is now going to apply to long guns as it applied to handguns in nineteen ninety eight. A lot of people are sorely disappointed when they come to the gun shop and they've done their research. The friends from other states that said, hey, this is a good gun, look at it, go check it out. They do their homework, and they come in to buy it, and we don't have it on the shelf because we
can't legally sell it. So that's really what's about to happen on the twenty fourth.
Because.
What exactly is what clagger ice is the long gun. So you you've mentioned one specific Remiican just you know, I'm not anti guys. I actually probably does business for everything, but but I'm.
Not only every question.
Yeah, you talking about a certain model, I mean you talk. To be honest, I'm a little skeptical that all shotguns all I mean, you won't be the buy I want to ask you in a month. They won't be able to buy any rifles in a month.
Uh.
I mean maybe that is true, but I haven't heard that much about this. That's why I'm surprised, That's all I'm saying.
Yeah, so what is a lot to answer your question, Joe will give him a chance, go ahead.
It's because a lot of media, unlike Dan here, are allowing to paint. Uh. You know, let the spotlight of truth be shined upon this law that has passed and you didn't hear anything about it because it was done in darkness, and it was done behind closed doors. The entire process was behind closed doors. And so basically, a long gun is anything that's not a handgun, something you'd put on your shoulder to pull, you know, to brace
the gun. You have four points of contact, your strong hand that pulls the trigger, your support hand that braces the gun, and then your stock, which seats in your shoulder, and then your cheek which mounts to the stock. So
that's basically the definition of a long gun. But we haven't even got to the broader implications of this law, which are really focusing in on semi automatic rifles, which has basically banned ninety nine percent of all semi automatic rifles with a detachable magazine from being sold in Massachusetts, so including hunting style guns and if they have a pistol grip, et cetera. So it comes down to a
bunch of features. But yeah, so right now, as of October twenty fourth, if we don't get this bill suspended, the only thing I'll be able to sell in my shop is some of the handguns that I can currently sell. Right now, all.
Right, gentlemen, we're past my break, Joe. We're going to give the website that you can check on and get more information and get involved if you want. But for now, I got to take a break. I got to let you go. We will give the website in our concluding segment. We'll be back with more phone calls for my guest,
Toby Lary, co owner of Cape Gun Works. He represents the Civil Rights Coalition dot com here in Massachusetts, which says that a law which is about to go into effects signed by the governor in July is onerous, burdensome, and arguably unconstitutional. Back on Night Side, Final Caller, and we'll wrap it up right after this break.
Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
We only have a scan a few minutes left. I'm going to go to JJ and Winchester. To JJ, please get right to whatever question of comment you'd like to make. Welcome back.
Yes, thank you. So I would just say I always side on the expansion of rights because I'm a libertarian, and I'm very skeptical when you get the leader of the so called free world, most powerful government in the world, says you don't need blank, I don't care what he thinks I need. It's really not his job to limit choice. I'm all about freedom of choice. I'm not for government trying to make it more difficult through backdoor.
Luca, fully, we fully understand that you're a libertarian, and I know you well well. The reason I was using the Joe Biden SoundBite is the gun that he's advising his wife to use. People in Massachusetts after October twenty fourth may not be able to purchase that very same gun. A little ironic there, I like irony.
Very ironic, very ironic. I don't I don't you know, trust any state or federal government that wants to make it more difficult.
I want to focus on JJ. I'm trying to focus on this issue tonight. Uh and I'm frankly flat out of time, so I'm going to let you go. I understand the broader point that you've made. I know how you feel and I and I respect it. Toby. What thanks JJ. Give us the websites where people can go to get more information. I mean, I think that that the breadth of this legislation is is expansive. And yeah, look, there are there are rules. I don't want criminals carrying guns.
I don't want people who have mental illness carrying guns, no question. Okay, However, this to me is a very expansive bill. They got it through the legislature because they can throw in anything they want. What can people do to help you in this campaign? Give them the websites, Toby.
I agree one hundred percent. Thank you Dan for your time tonight. The website is fight back dot org and the Civil Rights Coalition dot com. You can go there and see about all this legislation, find a petition site. I'm happy to report we have over seven hundred volunteers spread out throughout the state and there's about sixty six businesses. You can sign daily a petition if you haven't signed it, and you can get involved in taking your rights back
and part of the constitutional process. I think the people who've called tonight who aren't gun owners are waking up to see that their rights have been eroded by people who violated their oath of office. And that's what we're here to do is restore our rights in Massachusetts and fight BACKMA dot org, the Civil Rights Coalition dot com. You can always come down at Cape Gunworks and see me too. I'll be happy to talk to you and you know, answer any other questions you might have.
Well, Toby, thanks for joining us tonight, and we'll keep we'll try to keep on top of this and if we need to bring someone on from the other side and have a debate, we'll bring you back as well. Toby Leary Er Gunworks, the Civil Rights Coalition dot com, fight BACKMA dot org. Information to get on nightside is always going to be complete and accurate. This is a very very ambitious piece of legislation which has already passed
and signed and signed by the governor here in Massachusetts. Again, Toby, appreciate your time. When we get back. We're going to talk about the origins of the mafia, and I think all of us understand the mafia, but no one understands it better than my guest coming up. His name is Lewis Ferrante. He spent years in prison after refusing to incriminate fellow Gambino family members. Will take you deep into the mafia right after the ten o'clock news here on Nightside.