MA Ballot Question 5

It's Night Side with Dan Ray w BZ Costs Radio.

All Right, So, as we rolled towards the election on November fifth, not only the presidential election, but the state elections and maybe some local elections, we are going to periodically be looking at some of the ballot questions. We looked at one of the ballot questions that deal with the MCAST requirements, graduation requirement with Matt Hills on Tuesday night, Tuesday evening during the nine o'clock hour. Matt is the

Thank you very much for having me. How are we doing?

We're doing fine. Now can you give me my understanding? Is that the group that is that is in favor of this question, and I don't expect you know you to necessarily to us what they're saying, as you're opposed to it. Are they a local group or a group from out of state? And is there we we had a tough time trying to find anyone to join us, join you tonight to discuss the topic here in Massachusetts. What's what's the story there?

So this is an organization that came out of California. They have filed this question in massachuf this legislative league for the last five legislative sessions, for the last ten years. And they've also filed this similar type of legislation in sixteen states across the country this year, all of which have not adopted this provision. So after not having legislative success, they paid about a million dollars to get on the ballot for this year.

And here we are. We are.

We have balid Question five, which will fundamentally change the way full service restaurants operate. They want to change the way service and bartenders get paid. And we are we're vehemently opposed.

Okay, we're gon we're gonna We're gonna break it down for sure. But I just wanted to emphasize to my audience that we have reached out. My producer, Marita aka Lady Lightning, she gets to people pretty pretty well. She has a note here. The Yes campaign has not responded to our request, our request to join the conversation tonight, So let's let's try to Whenever we deal with numbers, I found out on on radio it's very difficult to

People who exactly the people at the front of the house of the restaurants that are providing the great service and the great hospitality that we've come to expect in restaurants across Massachusetts.

Okay, so those folks, their minimum wage is six dollars and twenty five cents. I assume there's nothing that would stop a business owner from paying a waiter or a waitress, or a bartender who does a particularly good job, maybe even some particularly bartenders that that people go to the bar to interact with the bartender. They can get more money if the if the owner wants to pay the more money. Correct But the minimum is six twenty five, So.

A couple of corrections, so it's actually six seventy five and went up about.

A year ago.

So six seventy five is the base wage, and that assumes that at least eight dollars and twenty five cents will be made in tips. But the minimum wage is actually fifteen. So when a server comes into the bar restaurant and checks in, whether they serve one guest or one hundred guests, they're guaranteed fifteen dollars an hour through some combination of the hourly wage and the tips. The reality is far more than fifteen dollars. We can get into that, but that's not what the law.

I think what you're saying is that unless you work in the restaurant which is overstaffed and and there's very few people coming in the door, it's tough not to make fifteen dollars an hour as as a waiter or a waitress or a bartender. I think that's what you're applying, am I.

Correct, Absolutely, it's tough not to make twenty two dollars an hour. But yes, the law is you are required fifteen dollars per hour regardless of when you work. So, yes, there is a a so called tip wage, and that just merely allows the restaurant owner to employ more people to provide the full service that comes along in a full service restaurant.

So let's assume let's assume some waiter or waitress gets let's say they work a four hour ship shift. We'll keep it simple, and let's assume that they get sixty bucks in tips. Okay, roughly, we'll make it easy. So they got fifteen dollars in tips. They will also be paid the six dollars and seventy five cents.

Or exactly, so they're making twenty one seventy five an hour.

Okay, So okay, Now, what happens if the waiter or waitress is somehow disingenuous and puts some of the tips in one pocket and some of the tips in the other. How does a restaurant own a control? You know, I'm not saying any waitress or waitress that I have ever met would do such a thing, but as a hypersonic question,

So the vast majority of restaurants have are our seventy eighty ninety percent credit card, so it's kind of hard to hide the cash tips the way people used to hide them in the in the seventies and eighties and even the nineties. You know, most transactions are happening on a credit card, so you're only really seeing ten to fifteen percent of all transactions in a given shift our cash.

So is that done. I've never worked as a waiter, never worked as a waiter, a waitress never worked as a waitstaff person. Let's assume that at this day and age, my wife and I go out to dinners one hundred dollars. I'll put twenty percent of the on the credit card. So does the house then understand? Okay, this twenty dollars is going to be credited to the waiter a waitress that serves that table.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And if there's severe penalties, the severe penalties both in not paying a serve of the full minimum wage. We have triple damages in Massachusetts. So that's a serious wage violation, a right exactly. And then also the tips. There's a very strict lawge Massachusetts of who can share in tips. The tips can only go to employee that's provided a direct service to the consumer.

Okay, that's going to get into this this issue as well. Okay, so I think Steve set the stage. Uh, if there are people who are wait staff people and want to chime in, you would be most affected by this piece of legislation. I'm sure there are some arguments on the other side. We'll try to get to those as well. Six one seven, two four ten thirty six one seven nine, ten thirty My name is Dan Ray. This is night Side. Let's get back at our conversation right after this very quick break.

Now back to Dan Ray live from the window world to night Side Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.

My guess it's Steve Clark, President and CEO of the Massachusetts Restaurant Association. So Steve, give you a chance now since we've kind of laid out the way it all works. Right now, what is the problem with this ballot question? You guys are opposed to it. I believe that there's a pretty good amount of waiters and waitresses, weight staff people also who are opposed to this. What what is it going to do that it's going to disrupt circumstances, and why is it a bad idea?

So the very first thing the mass Restaurant Association did was poll servers, the very servers and bar centers that were going to be impacted by this question, and we actually put the language of the ballot before them and said what do you think about this? And then overwhelming majority came back and said, we don't want this. This is going to impact my earnings. Ninety percent of the respondents came back and said this is a bad idea.

So the impact on the current servers under the current circumstances, economic circumstances. Uh, if if they make one hundred dollars in tip some night by waiting on customers, waiting tables, serving tables, that money is credited to them, uh, they they do not have to share that money with the cooks or the bottle washers or any of the back of the house people.

Right exactly, exactly, Okay.

Uh so so what is this California group attempting to do here? Again, we had a tough time tracking any of them down, any any representative, and my producer is very good at getting people to join us. What what is what is their goal here? Who are the if if the waiters and waitresses aren't thrilled with this? And I've seen some uh some television ads I'm not sure if they're your ads or not, which have have shown people who were you surfers who was saying they didn't

Well, I don't usually want to tell the people that have endorsed a yes, but the Democratic Socialists of Massachusetts Boston Chapter have endorsed the yes on this question. Yeah, so you know they they they're they're they're this organization.

How about like the Young the Young Socialist League.

You know, they're probably lining up next, they might endorse tomorrow. It's it's really rooted in a in a desire to pay everyone in the restaurant the same wage and regardless of how hard you've worked, regardless of how how hard you're going to work, regardless of your skill set. And that's what makes the restaurant industry great. It's a it's an opportunity to have unlimited earnings. You can go in and providing credible service to a guest and making credible

Yeah, it's always interesting when you hear a group like that. What do you mean by by fair fair to whom? Whatever? I don't know. Look, if there are some people who work in the service industry who are out there and would like to chime in on whatever side of this question. Uh, there was a poll that was done recently by my friend Dave Paleologus of Suffolk University, and it was in the Boston Globe a couple of days ago. And if I recall, it's one of those questions, it's it's the

Obviously, we want to know. We want no changes to the existing law nor the tip pulling law. That we just want the We want a lot to stay the same.

Okay. So, but what this law would do is it would mandate tip pooling.

Uh So it wouldn't. It wouldn't.

It wouldn't mandate tip pooling. It would just it would allow the restaurant owner to mandate tip pooling. So if the restaurant owner decided they could now move the tips however they seem fit, so a manager would never be able to collect the tips. I think that's pretty clear in the law. But the if they wanted to share tips with the back of the house, with the host, maybe with the social media manager, maybe with the accountants, maybe with the person that cleans the restaurant at night,

Right, and what this would do also, I think it will have an immediate impact that the minimum wage which the servers are being paid above and beyond their tips, would go to nine dollars and nine dollars and sixty cents year one on January first, year two would bump up to ten ninety five year three. January first, twenty six would be twelve thirty eight. It would eventually get up to fifteen dollars by January first of twenty twenty seven.

Right, So think about so Dan, think about a small restaurant across Massachusetts, in any town, and just the labor cost that's going to go up in year one. Now, most full service restaurants, two thirds of the employees at the restaurant are tipped employees. So it's the highest percentage

It's not sole that's going to that's going to increase the costs that the restaurant will have to charge customers exactly.

So they have to make up that price somehow. They're either going to increase the cost or they're going to put a service charge on because there's only one way to generate money in a restaurant, and that's the product on the menu price for the product.

So you're you're convinced that well, the poll that it just was alluding to you, you were no vote was prevailing, but there was still forty percent of the people who if I recall correctly, thirty nine percent that were saying yes.

Because it sounds good.

Everyone wants to take care of their server and their bartenders, Like, yeah, of course, I think this helps servis and bartenders. But then when they actually asked their bartender and their server, they're like, wait a minute, this isn't going to help me. And so when the proponents first filed this question earlier this year, they were touting fifty eight percent support. So their support has been crumbling in eroding, and the Boston Globe pole showed that it was less than forty percent.

I saw that by the way, that was that was an interesting, you know, interesting that he would weigh in on it. Of course, he represents the district. A part of his district is the North End, which is repleat with restaurants, great Italian restaurants. I should I should mention, but yes, so he very well might be influenced by by that constituency.

But still obviously he also he had there was there was three servers that came and spoke and said that they didn't want this. So yes, he has a he has a vibrant restaurant district, but he also has a lot of vibrant restaurant employees from there.

Have any of the state elected officials, the governor, either of our senators are six constitutional offices, which of course one of which would be the governor, of governor, lieutenant governor, Attorney general, Secretary of state, auditor, state treasurer. Have any of them come out with endorsements one way or the other.

No, they've They've all remained neutral thus far, okay, and which I think tells you, which I think speaks volumes that you know, normally when they when you talk about a minimum wage discussion, most of our elected officials come on board and say, yes, a good idea. So I think their silence speaks volumes that they don't believe this is a good idea. And then to go one step further, the hospitality union is opposed to this. Well, is neutral on this question because they don't like the tip sharing

Yeah, if perhaps the two issues spends pet been split, the one fair share group might have at least had a hope of getting the first question, but certainly not the tip sharing question. It's very interesting. Have they spent this group you said, has spent a million dollars on the ballot. Have they been spending a lot of advertising?

To my knowledge, there hasn't been much advertising. Mostly they spent a lot of their money to get on the ballot. They did make reference in a Boston Globe article a few months ago that they had a two million dollar anonymous donation. Now, Massachusetts law prohibits anonymous donations. You have to disclose what you spend. But they did say in a Boston Globe atom article that they had an anonymous donation. So we're we're waiting for them to spend.

Yeah, any any way possible that the that donor's last name is Soros.

You know there, it may be. There's a lot of funding that happened in California that makes its way into politics, politics and other states.

So yeah, no doubt, no doubt. All right, Steve, let's take a break. I'd like to hear from people who were affected by this, So give us a call at six one seven four ten thirty. Uh, if you have a different point of view, you're more than welcome, no

This It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.

All right, my guest is Steve Clark. He is the president and CEO of the mass Restaurant Association, and we're talking about Massachusetts ballot Question five that proposes giving tipped workers an increase uh in their base wage beginning next January and continuing for five years until it reaches a base wage of fifteen dollars an hour. That base wage, it's actually well twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight, twenty nine. It would be twenty twenty nine that they

Go ahead, Joe, Yeah. I thought it'd be interesting for Steve to speak to where this question had actually I don't know if it was the same exact question that had passed, but up in the town up in Maine, and the results that kind of followed with that.

Are you familiar with what Joe's I.

Do feel a very A similar proposal was passed in Portland, Maine in twenty sixteen. A couple of months after it went into effect, the servers were seeing an actual loss in their earnings, and they went and rallied to city Hall and they got the law reversed. So that's a sign of where a municipality tried this and it didn't work, and the service successfully lobbied their elected officials and they repealed it.

So that probably wasn't a ballot question. It probably was something that passed by their city council in mayor, so easy to turn that around if this one were to pass as a ballot question. It's tough to turn balot questions around in Massachusetts. I hope the people who are voting on this realized that.

Yeah.

Absolutely, the legislature generally defers to the to the to the voting public on a ballot question. I believe it was a city referendum. It wasn't a statewide referendum. I think it was just a City of Portland referendum.

City ordinance or a city regulation. They made a mistake, they turned it around. Joe. Are you involved in the industry at all, Joe.

Yes, yes we are.

Yeah, Turner seat foods, which one turn to seafoods Turner Seafoods.

Yes. So we have locations, we have a couple of different locations. But you know, our concern on this, and we've shared this with Steve is is people walking into the ballot booth that just aren't educated on it. Yeah, and you know, I think you know, for many people, I mean, you know, they they think it's it's it's only fair if someone's going to be making if someone's making six seventy five, and they in the you know, their understanding of it is, you know, why not pay

Important because what happens is everybody, particularly in the president's your year, they goes, they go in and no one's making up their mind as they're as they're you know, walking into the polling place. They know who they're going to vote for president. They probably know who they're going to vote for US senator. When they get to those ballot questions, they'll either tend to blank them or their instinct will be probably to say yes because most people

Thanks dam, Thanks Sam, Thanks Thank Joe. Good luck in Salem in October. I know that's an extremely busy time for you. Get thank you it is.

Yeah, good night. Let me keep rolling here. We get one more in before the news break, and we're going to go to a gym down on the self Shore and hint over Massachusetts. Chim, you're next on Nightside with Steve Clark, the president CEO of the Massachusetts Restaurant Association.

Yeah. Hi, I used to be a Canada custodian, and I'd cleaned the whole bowl in the li carpets, benches, the bar, and the bartender would want it a certain way. And I asked at the very first night of my tenure, I asked if I got some of the tip and they were, oh, no, you don't get that. That's the bartenders. And I said, well, the reason he gets the tip it isn't just when making the drink. It's for the

I don't think you can hear me and talk to Jim and tell him I want to ask him a question. I don't want to talk over him, but I'd like to be able to ask him a question. So if he's if you're able to bring him back up, let's see if we can get a question into him. I think he was having difficulty hearing me. Go ahead, bring him up, Okay, Jim, I want to ask you a question. We lost him, we lost him, talk to me, guys said, show you there tonight. Talked to me. Did you lose

I did my job to the best of my Adose, No, I know that I'm gonna ask you that quit. Do you all know it? Called me like two months later and said, will you come back to guys?

He's not interesting conversation. Take it down. Thanks very much, Jim. I appreciate your experience. It was fascinating. We're going to take a break. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Folks, if you want to call in, I certainly will let you tell you a story, no problem, But at some point I probably want to engage you in a question, in a conversation, and if you're having difficulty hearing me,

Now back to Dan Ray Mine from the Window World, Nice Side Studios on w b Z News Radio.

Let's go next to Joe and Hebril. Hey Joe, welcome you next on nights. I go right ahead. Okay, I think Joe's not ready, so let's put Joe on hold. Gentlemen, thank you very much, and we'll move on to Alan in Framingham. Alan in framing him. How are you Alan?

I'm good, Dan, how are you boy?

That's great you're there, and I'm sure the guys told you to keep the radio down, so you were all set and you're on the air. What would you like to say or what question would you like to ask of my guest, Steve Clark of the mass Restaurant Association, Go right ahead.

So my comment is that the restaurant industry is one of the few industries where you can start off as a minimum wage worker and work your way up and you know, become a manager or become a supervisor, become a district person, become an office person. There's a lot of opportunity, and I think that that can so overlooked in a lot of these conversations.

Okay, I think you're right. Are you involved in the business.

I am involved in the business. I started off as a cook myself a long time ago, worked my way up, became a manager, decided I wanted to make a switch to administration, and I made the switch to administration, and now I provide services to people in the industry.

One of the things that people go ahead, no.

Go ahead, I didn't mean to drop go.

Ahead, Nope. One of the things I think people miss. And this is kind of a different subject, but in terms of the restaurant owner Steve mentioned earlier, restaurant owners have very small margins, unlike high tech and things like that that have a very high margin. But in the restaurant industry Steve mentioned it earlier. Most people now use a credit card to pay their bill. So if the bill is one hundred dollars and someone leaves a twenty or twenty five dollar tip, the restaurant owner is now

Yep, that's true. Being that's a little inside baseball. But fiture I mean, I think the fees on credit cards are what three four dollars?

Uh, fees on credit card trages generally run around three percent.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, I mean it's it's significant on a bill that's a one hundred and twenty five dollars, you're talking about four dollars and no, I agree. That's an interesting, interesting perspective as well. Allan, I appreciate you, cal thank you very much. I got a whole bunch of other folks like to try to accommodate as well. Thanks so much for calling, and thanks for listening tonight's side.

So I just wanted to just add to one point to what Alan was saying. Is very few industries in America where you can start in the first job, at an anty level job and become the CEO. You know, most places that doesn't have that three lattice. But that's what makes the restaurant industry great. Most of our owners started as cooks in dishwashes, et cetera. So I just want to make a plug for the industry.

Sure, that's fine. That's fine. Let me go now to Joe in Haveril and see if Joe is ready at this point.

Joe, No, yes, this is Joe.

November eleven is Veteras Day. And I've been to many restaurants through the years and we get a free meal, but we don't have we don't leave a tip. What happens then to the waitress says should does?

Yeah?

So, you know, I've been the beneficiary of a complimentary meal a few times, and I always try to leave a tip for the server because the owner themselves is the one that's camping the meal, the server is not. So so the server is probably making the minimum wage for that day because if there's no tips coming from the consumers, then the owner is required to make them minimum wage under the laws. So they're probably making fifty

Yeah, I appreciate that, Joe. Again, any anyone who has a meal complimentary, they certainly should also take care of the person who serves them. There's no doubt, no doubt about that. Thanks, appreciate you.

Next time I next time I go to a restaurant on Vevermin' Day. It's coming up in November eleventh.

Yeah, it comes like that every year in November eleven. It's like clockwork. Joe absolutely in the World War One. Thanks Joe, appreciate your call. Let me go to Suzanne and Newton. Susanne, next on, nice, I go ahead.

Hi, thank you for bringing this spolt question to buy attention, because I will vote in person. But and I'm sure, I mean, if I say it's a credit card, I leave to chip in cash, you always.

Ship at alvers around. If you said tavy of our service, and I'm serious, is quite wide? Probably serious? Is the waitress's kind of limited? But I'm so glad you brought this ballance.

Well, I'm glad you gave a chance to think about it now. So what you can do is go into the polls and make your decision. I think if you listen to the arguments that Steve Clark, our guest tonight, has made, I think that would probably convince me.

I'll vote in verses, and now I will vote to give tips without cats to the waitress and writers.

Yeah, that's not what we're talking about. Thank you very much. Susan appreciate your call. Let me go to Beatrice in the Bridgewater Beaches, like to get you in here under the wire, go right hand.

Hi Dan, I just want to say that when I use my credit card to pay for a meal, I always make sure that I have cash on me to pay the tip because it's my understanding that the waitresses don't get that tip until the credit card company, uh you know, pay, so I always make sure that I have cash.

Yeah, let me let me find Let let me just find out if that's true, Steve. That surprises me what Beatrice said, Is that true?

Uh?

Yeah, so that it does pay sometimes well in some restaurants or cast people out that night and they'll they'll wait for the credit card payments to come in. Other people have put all the tips in the payroll so that the end of the week they get an actual paycheck with all the tips calculated out. It really varies across the industry, but you know, I do think I think the servers love the credit card purchase and the cash tip. I think that works out great for them.

That's that's an interesting point you raised, Beatrice, and that might make me. I tend to, you know, at a restaurant. If it's you know, over you know, twenty five, If it's under thirty bucks, I'm paying cash with the tip. If it's over you know, fifty dollars or something, I'm

Only that, but they don't have to pay taxes on it, where if they get a tech for it, they would have to pay taxes.

Yep, that's that's another factor. I agree with you. I agree with you on that as well.

And I know, listening.

Well, I can't imagine that any waiter a waitress would not declare all of their cash tips as well.

I mean, oh yeah, right, I was a wait That's what we all recommend I went to Maine recently and the bill was ninety five dollars and I put it on my credit CAD, but I had money for the tip in cash. I don't like to make them wait.

Good for you, Good for you. That's a great suggestion, be just that was one of the better calls this hour. Thank you very much.

Okay, thank you, thanks Uh.

Steve, Steve Clark, thank you very much. By the way, where can folks if they haven't been convinced by this hour? I don't know what you're going to be able to do to convince them. This was this was almost a forfeit by the other side, but we'll leave that for other considerations. Uh, is there a website people and get more information if they still need a little more information before they decide how they're.

Gonna Yeah, absolutely, protect tips dot org is the full campaign website. And of course our website is math the Mass rest dot org. So we are the Mass Restaurant Association and uh, we're just excited to be on today. We're excited to get to election day and hopefully put this question behind us and send this idea back to California.

Yeah, there's a lot of cooky ideas come out of California, there's no Unfortunately, a lot of them get adopted by the other states. Thank you so much, Steve. I appreciate it very much. We'll talk soon, okay.

And thank you very much.

I enjoyed it.

Absolutely Right now, interesting hour coming up. We're going to talk about something called glossophobia, the fear of public speaking, and how to get over it. Back on Nightside, right after the ten o'clock news,