It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Coustin's me video.
Today the papal conclave is underway. It's actually our tomorrow. It's Thursday morning in Rome. They're about six hours ahead of us. And at some point that conclave will be renewed today. And there was one indication that there was some sort of a vote taken inside the Sistine Chapel, but the requisite two thirds vote for one of the cardinals in the room was not achieved, and so therefore the smoke that showed was black smoking, not white smoke. And with us now to talk about all things Catholic
and all things papal. Conclavish is a friend of many years, Professor Thomas Groom. He teaches at Boston College. Tom Groom, Professor Groom, Groom, welcome back to Nightside. How are you?
Oh? Thank you Dad, And only for an old friend like yourself, so I'd stay up this late and I sat on a Wednesday night. Well, I'm delighted, I'm deli to join you and blessing.
Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. This has got to be a very interesting time in our lifetimes. We're not that far apart in age. There have been a few fewer popes than presidents. There's no two term limit on popes. Uh, no, no eight year limit, I should say, uh and uh, we're about now to have the next pope of our lifetime, and it's going to be certainly an interesting process. I was listening to some reports today.
I Uh, I did realize that they were back in the in the bad old days, and we're talking I guess in the eleventh century. Uh, they did what is the the forerunner of a paper conclave, and it took three years before they could come up.
With yes, that's right with the winner, and they eventually then they eventually had to lock them up and give them only bread and water, And that was the only way that they finally came to a decision. The local people were so sick and tired of them sponging on them that they eventually they locked the doors and they gave them bread and water, and they came to a decision. But it did take about three years. I don't think
we're will do that this time here. But actually, when you look at the conditions that they're living in, you realize that these are cardinals of the church. Meanwhile, they're they're sleeping in little beds that looked more like you know, weekend bunks on the for the scouts or something, you know, So they're pretty humble quarters. So I think they'll move along and come to a decision probably the next it'll
take two or three days. They very I think, from what i've know, what we've heard before, very often the opening the opening votes are are kind of window dressing, you know. The people vote for each other and then to pay compliments to them, you know, then they can when they leave they say, well I got two votes to be pope, you know. But there's a lot of that. But I think eventually then the third or fourth day, they'll settle down. But I think it will take three or four days.
So let's talk. First of all, I have to ask you, I'm sure you must have seen the movie Conclave.
Yes, Dan, it's very very good, very helpful. There's little pits and pieces that you could you could quibble with, but they basically portrayed it fair and square, and that's pretty much.
I'm not gonna spoiled spoil the ending, but.
The end. The ending was a bit of a surprise. But but I've been hopeful. I thought, well, we might have going forward.
Yeah, well I don't think so, but but you almost, I mean you almost could tell if you were thinking what the ending was going to be. I mean, there was a lot of what I would call foreshadowing in that movie Let's Hope, Let's Hope. So so, so let's let's talk about you have been a theologian for your
entire life. You served as a Catholic priest and at one point decided that you were you wanted to go in a different direction and uh, and you married the love of your life and uh and very very successful uh as as a teacher and as a professor.
And it is the only thing I knew I knew how to do.
Yeah. Well, the point is, though that I will rely upon you to get a sense of where we're headed. The church obviously went for the first time, at least in my recollection for an Eastern European with John Paul two. Yes, they then kind of came back to to to the more traditional Benedict who was the only pope to resign, and.
Then they was in Germany. He was German. Remember then, you know he still was an Italian. Because the pattern through the eighteen nineteenth and even in the twentieth century, was to elect an Italian because I had the majority in the conclave, whereas at least Benedict was, you know, not from Italy, and he was breaking open new ground. He was the first German in a long time to be elected pope.
Yeah, and then of course they really surprised first person from the Western hemisphere of Pope Francis.
Uh, the first.
Ed a Jesuit. Yes, we have to mention that. I was reminded of that again today by Jack Dunne of your public your great relations department.
And some people say, maybe the last Jesuits for another five hundred years.
Well, let's unless they decide to make you. You're eligible any member of the Catholic Church. I guess Mayl is eligible.
So I think there need to be a cardinal. It needs to be a cardinal. I've been passed over for that.
Dan.
So yeah, oh I didn't really.
Oh, I thought it was just anyone that they could. They could if they wanted to.
I think you'd be Dan'd be in a day christ bishop and then the car then.
Oh okay, fine, okay.
Well they've always been a card I didn't I didn't think that they were gonna get okay, But that's okay.
So so we.
Now know what we think to remember Dan is that this goes back. This is the two hundred and sixty seventh pope. There's been two hundred's in Saint Peter two thousand years ago, there's been two hundred and sixty six pope. So everything you can imagine about it has happened, you know.
So like there was an eighteen year old was elected the pope back in the seventh or eighth century because he was the son of the emperor, and the emperor told him that I want my son to be the pope, and they voted for him.
Good work if you can get it.
But yeah, So it's amazing thing is that it has the old Catholic theology that grace works through nature, and so nature has been at work all along with God's grace also has been at work. So in other words, we've also end up with some darn good popes and
then of course a wonderful pope in Pope Francis. And that'll be the big challenge to try to even begin to replicate or or at least to approximate somebody as wonderful and fantastic as well as Pope Prances and as the kind of a leader that he was, and for the whole world, not just for Catholics, but for five Jewish friends and BUTLM friends and all kinds of non religious friends that just taught the world of Pope France.
And so there's big shoes to fill, and the cards have their work cut out for them to find another Fancis or somebody comparable.
Well we get back, I want to talk about that. I have some thoughts which probably are errant, but I want to run those by you, and I want to be able to get corrected as to how far off base I am. But but I really I mean that honestly. I'm also going to invite callers if they would like, if you want to talk to someone who knows all of I'm going to use the phrase inside baseball. Professor Thomas Groom is here, and I don't want to in any way, shape or form compare this to a baseball game.
But there's going to be some suspense, and whether it goes into extra innings or not, we don't know. There are supposed to be two votes in the morning tomorrow, two votes in the afternoon of tradition holds, and at that point that process might start to Winnow will have to see how how it works out. My guest is Professor Thomas Groom. He teaches at Boston College. He is a theologian and someone who is deep in his knowledge
of the church. He is also, I think, as you can tell, a huge fan of the late Pope, and he's also I would say, probably you would characterize yourself as fairly as definitely I would think of progressive and is very No, I'm serious. There are a lot of the issues that any new pope is going to face. You have addressed either in writings or books. Is there a new book with your name attached to it that we need to write?
Late?
Oh?
Dan? Well, thank you Dan, thank you, thank you. Yes. While I've written a number of books that I wouldn't write, and many of them I wouldn't recommendes it. I require my students to read them, but I wouldn't recommend them. But I one book that I would recommend, and that's
a book called Faith for the Heart. Faith for the Heart, and in the sense it addresses the issues that the Contave is addressing, like how do we make sense out of our faith at this time and this time and place, and obviously the horizon duck's different than the past, and we will live into new ways of practicing our faith and guiding our faith and trying to appropriate and bring
us along with us. And I would sustain our lives and so on and thend us ways of believing and ways of belonging and ways of behaving which all of us need if we're to live life. Well, so it's still as a tremendous function to play on the world stage. And I think our Catholic faith has a tremendous richness to it.
Yes, and of course it's been through some it's been through some turbulent times. Uh and uh, well we can we can hit upon that as well. But we got to take a break. The book book Faith, Faith for the Heart by by Professor Thomas Groom of Boston College. This is a quick break. We'll be back in about
three minutes, and I want to talk. I want to pick a profile here and define what what I think you think will will be produced by this conclave back on night side with Professor Thomas Groom of Boston College, theologian of great great repute. We're delighted to have him tonight. If you like to join the conversation, you know the number six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty or six one seven nine three thirty. The good thing about Professor Groom is whatever you ask him, you will get
an answer, and a direct and a straight answer. We're coming back on Nightside.
It's Night Side with Boston's news Radio.
We're delighted to be joined by Professor Thomas Groom. Groom a theologian at Boston College. You've taught at BC now many many years. How how long have you been there? Oh?
My bes, Dan, if I teach for one more year, because I hope to God spares me. I love talked for fifty years at Boston College.
You for a lot, I can remember.
I often joked. I often joked that they hired me just after I'd made my first Holy communion.
Wow.
Well, actually, technically then you're what's called PF which means pre pre fluty.
Pre fluty. But actually I taught fluty. It's fascinating and and if he was listening, I'd love to. I'd love to. I love him to know the story. But I often say, one of my greatest claims to fame. I thought, all the books have written, in all the rest of it, my greatest lam to fame. And I oftenize people, how many of you have seen the Hail Mary pass every hand today? And the audience goes up, and I said, well, my greatest claim to fame is not the books have written.
My biggest claim is that I taught Doug Flutie to hail Mary.
Well, listen, theology we would expect.
I had a theology course at Boston College, So in a sense, I taught Doug the hail Mary.
Yeah, well, absolutely great. So here's my thought. Here's my thought, and I want to tell me how far off base I am. My sense is that these cardinals have an option here, They have many options, and I think they may want to come back philosophically a little to the center. I know you're a big fan of Francis, and you know I'm more than JP two guy. Maybe bring it back somebody who's a little bit, a little bit less adventuresome on some of the issues that I know are
so important to you. But I'm guessing they're going to go to another continent, maybe maybe Asia or maybe Africa. Yeah, I think that's where the action is how far off am I do you think with that.
Analysis, Dan, I don't think you're off at all, really, I mean from your lips to God's ears. I mean, it could be a more moderate pope. Francis was a bit of adventuresome, now there was. But but on the other hand, he was on the on the social issues. You know, there's migrants, the immigrants, the downright, the poor, that downtrodden. I mean, his great symbol of his of his pontificate to me was on a Thursday, that Holy Thursday, going to the local prison, women's prison and washing the
feet of these young women in the prison. But he was just extort the example of Christian love and charity and care for the downtrodden, et cetera, which is core to our faith. It's at the heart of our Catholic faith. So I mean, they'll have to invite, they'll have to like somebody that has those kinds of social values. Now there might be a little more cautious I suppose that some of the more controversial issues, but but they won't
go away. I mean, and Francis at least opened the doors of the possibility of conversation, like the ordination of women to the Diacton for example. Of course, if you if you ordained them to the Acton, is to be no theological reason for if you're declining them to priesthood or episcopacy. Now, I think that conversation will continue, you know, Carl Ronald writing thirty five forty years ago, they said there's no theological reasons left anymore for declining ordination to
priesthood and ministry and so on to women. So there's
work to be done. But I think one of the greatest contributions the legacies of for Francis will be this notion of cinidality, when in many ways it turns that were the church upside down instead of the hierarchy all being in charge and telling the rest of us what to do, it kind of turns the pyramid upside down and the people get to participate and to have an opinion and to share their opinion, and to have voice in the church, and to participate and to bring their
to bring their gifts to the table as it were, so rather than being a top down hierarchy. Know, the hierarchical structure of the church will continue instead of bishops and popes, et cetera. But I think this notion of cynidality that France has launched in the world, and of course it's an old idea, goes back to the very beginnings of the church, the earliest centuries. But we're lost it along the way, especially as Catholic Christians, we lost
it in some ways. Our Eastern brothers and as Orthodox brothers and sisters were more faithful the synidality than we were. But it's coming back, and I think that's going to be one of the great agendas for the next pope to continue to push for cynidality and the practice of sinidality.
Just so, professor, just so there's no confusion amongst the the faithful. Here, Cynidality is spelled s y.
N o d from the Greek word the week, then you know, which literally means to work, to walk along, or to move along together.
Well, they talked about when you talk, when you talk about that again, sinidality, I want to make sure that no one thinks it's spelled si n That's all I'm saying.
Sorry, that's why, thank you.
N No, that's all. That's all. So let's do this, let's let's take a break. I want to expand on that. I always want to give people a chance to call. I would love to hear from people who are either non Catholics or people who are interested in the process. We can talk about the process and all of that, the history of this process which will produce the two hundred and sixty seventh Pope in the history of the
Catholic Church. I think it's really interesting the amount of attention that the American networks are giving to the papal to the Papal conclave, because they are treating it only what twenty five percent of their audience, probably Catholic. I'm guessing that we have about sixty to seventy million Catholics in America. I don't know that they would do this when they there is ahead of any other religion in the process of being elected or appointed, and that's to
me fascinating. I want to get your comment on that, why in your opinion, and I also want to give people an opportunity to ask you any questions. I mean, you are somebody who believes that the church needs to modernize. Whether people agree or or disagree, this is a church. This is no longer the Catholic Church of the nineteen fifties.
It's now the Church of the twenty first century, and there have been changes, and there are folks in the Church, of which Professor Groom is one, that feel that the changes must continue or if the church doesn't grow, it will die. It's growing in other parts of the world, and I want to make people understand that as well. We'll get to all of that, I promise in your phone call six one, seven, two, four, ten thirty, six months, seven nine thirty, feel free join the conversation. That's why
Professor Groom is staying up late. He's gonna have to get up early tomorrow morning because the Rome is six hours ahead of us, and by time six o'clock in the morning rolls around, it to be almost noontime in Rome. So we very much appreciate him staying with us tonight, but he will be gone by eleven o'clock. I could talk to him all night long. This fascinating intellectual and theologian. Back on Nightside right.
After this, It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.
I'm joined by Boston College Theology Professor Thomas Groom. Professor Groom, I am delighted, but somewhat surprised at the amount of attention live coverage that not only the cable networks, but the three major networks ABC, CBS, NBC have given to not only the passing Pope princess, but the process now by which his success will be chosen. Are you surprised by that or no?
Well, I think no, not really, Dan in the sense that well, yes, indeed it is surprising and gratifying in a way, but I think some of it is the the legacy of Pope Friences already emerging, that he really won the hearts of the world. He was a pope for everybody, and I think lots of people from all traditions, especially people with any sense of social justice, any sense of compassion, any sense of the rights of the downtrodden.
And he here for the environment, I mean, his passion for trying to save our environment before we destroy it and poison ourselves was exemplary and extraordinary in a gift of the world, not just the Catholic faith. Now, you know he's our pope and revere him as such, and our leading teacher, etc. Et cetera. But I have lots of friends from other traditions, and no tradition that deeply admired the kind of values he was championing, and see
in our present political assignus. And so I think people are hoping that maybe these Catholics can come up with another pope like Francis that would do the same kind of leadership on the world stage. Now, he'd also need to be the pope of the Catholic Church, and of course you will be. But it's a bigger role than just for the Catholic Church.
But that that isn't that the inherent conflict in the sense that the criticism of Francis came often from the folks who were perhaps pushing him a little further on things like gay marriage and and to what to what level should the church go women as priests. You know, he held the line on many of those issues. It's easy to talk about, you know, being a good steward of God's green earth. I mean, look, you get into the whole climate change and what do you do about it.
That's where where the water gets choppy. But but I don't know anybody who wants to destroy the.
Planet, you know, don't want to take precautions to preserve us. I mean, there are people who are happy to exploit it and pretend that there is no crisis and there is no environmental challenge.
Well, I think that with I think that within some sides, with all due respect, professor, there are some who would say, Okay, you know, a little bit of soul, a little bit of this, but we need to bring in some nuclear or whatever, and and then people kind of it becomes sort of you talk about cafeteria Catholics, it also is
cafeteria issues. Like you know, so if we could just do it with soul and just to the wind, that would be great, but you have to have something more than that, and then you get the question of of I'm just saying I think I would like to assume that that there's nobody who wants to destroy the earth, and that there's and I'd like to assume that there's nobody who really wants to use nuclear weapons. But obviously we have to be concerned about those sorts of issues.
Yeah.
Yeah, And I'm just saying that that whenever I talk to you, I get excited because I think you have a real good sense of where the church is going. But I also think that the church has has its uh, it's it's it's religious. I'm going to use the word religious ideology that that that any pope, uh is he cont straight too far from that? And there are people, there are people. Yeah, that's and that's the balance that
they have to that that needs to be struck. Go ahead, I didn't I don't mean to dominate.
It has to be no matter what they do, it has to be faithful to the tradition. I mean, we're all we're all our calls to give our religions to the Creed, you know, to the niceeing Creed and the confession of faith we make there and you know, to Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and so on, and the church is a sacrament of God's salvation of
the world, et cetera, et cetera. So that, I mean, the common faith is there, but as we implement it, as we expanded out in this post nuclear age, and it's this, you know, it's posts almost everything you know, postmodern post God knows. It's a new day. There's one theologian that writes about the afternoon of Christianity and that in a sense, his proposed is that the afternoon won't
be quite like the morning. Uh. Now, they'll still be faith and and you know, deep faith, but some of the rules and regulations and structures and so on that it may have served as well at some time in a different contexts and ages and cultures. But it'll keep evolving. If the faith is to if it's to grow, and if it's to continue, it will have to be remain
vital I continue to push out into new horizons. I think that's where That's where Francis was such a leader, not just for Catholics, but for all people of goodwill?
Is lebis? Is there an inherent conflict here in the sense that the church is doing well in different parts of the world. It's not doing well in Europe, it's not doing as well in the United States as it once did. We can, I think we can agree upon that. And it's doing well in South America, it's doing well in Africa. Yes, yeah, So the question is here's my question.
My question is a lot of the conveniences of the West electricity and and and air conditioning, all of which on climate change, there's there's there's there's sort of that that argument how much air conditioning? How much electricity can we use before we're overusing it? Yet there's parts of the world where the church is not doing well, where there is no electricity or there is no air conditioning.
So as they come into the modern world, what conflict do they have to deal with in terms of the creature comforts of the world versus what the church requires. Do you know where I'm trying to go with this question?
Yeah? I do, then, And it's a great question, and it's a better question that I've been asked in a long time. And I'm not sure I can give in adequate answer to it, but I'm going to give it a kind of a simplistic response to what you're saying. The heart of our faith is Jesus of Nazareth, and I mean Jesus of Nazareth, the carpenter who walked the
roads of Galilee. Now our Christian faith we also believe he was the Son of God and the second person of blessed Trinity, and the divine presence in human history, in our Lord and Savior, et cetera, et cetera. But the Catholic faith has ape France has led the way with this. If you were to say, what was it the heart and center and soul of Francis's pontificate. I would say Jesus. Now, so that's because he was a Jesuit.
He's a society of Jesus. But that emphasis that Catholics have in some ways rediscovered this, the emphasis on the historical Jesus and the values he stud for and the truths he proclaimed, that the lifestyle he lived, and his greatest commandment that the only way we can love God is by loving our neighbor as ourselves. And I was hungry, gave me to eat. I was thirsty, you gave me to drink. God will not say there was a hungry person one time in your feed them, but rather I
was hungry be to eat. I mean, it's a very radical gospel that Jesus left us. Now, there's much more to our faith than just the gospels, you know what I mean, whether it's two thousand years since then and the evolution of our faith, et cetera. And yet there's something that France has caused was rather amazing when he called us back to the historical Jesus and to look again at the pattern that the values he lived. And you know, he was constantly giving out bread to people.
I mean, there's there's only two there's only two miracles reported six times in the Gospel. One is the miracle of the Resurrection and the other is the miracle of the loaves and fishes. It's in all four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and twice in Matthew, twice in the Mark Jesus multiplying loaves, four loaves, five love, seventh fish whatever, to cure thousands, and to heal thousands and thousands of people, and to cure the sick among them, et cetera. And
that's that kind of Jesus. I mean, that's the one that calls us to the depths and to the deep commitment of our faith. And now, as they said, there's more to our faith than just saying Jesus. But Pope Francis has done that was what I think. It's a great legacy to return us and to more refocus us more deliberately. Uh not on Thomas Aquinas or Augustin or somebody or a gat theologians, which we spend a lot of time doing, but rather to begin our focus on Jesus.
I would I would argue in a in a in a polite way that the American economic system, which can be tough rugged individualism, capitalism, whatever, also has produced more food for more people, and not only in America but in different parts of the world. Uh that I'm not sure that that that Francis would would look at maybe, you know, unbridled capitalism. As many of us in America, we look at it as something that is good because, as you know, I think it was President Kennedy said,
a rising tide lives all boats. And I think that's that's that's the rising tide of America that that hopefully is going to help other kind tries learn to feed more people and to be more successful. That's I don't know if there's an inherent conflict there or if it's complimentary Tom, that's I professor.
Hopefully it can be complimentary there.
Yes, Okay, let me take a very quick call here and we'll take some more after the break, but I'm going to get to Jennifer, who's been holding on from Yarmouth Port. Jennifer, your own professor Tom Broom of Boston College, go right ahead.
Okay, Well, I just have one very quick question. How many cardinals are actually voting?
Okay, it's one hundred and thirty nine. Would you please call him back for us. I was not. I hope he didn't get disconnected, but please call him back. It's one hundred and thirty nine cardinals, Jennifer, who vote and in order to I think the number is one hundred and thirty nine, and the number that are needed to elect is two thirds of that, which I believe is something like eighty nine when I did my math.
Okay, Jennifer nominated for the Pope? Do you get nominated? You know?
Jennifer, hold off for one second. Did we lose Jennifer? Now, what's going on with our phones? Jennifer? Yeah, Jennifer, please call back. Professor. You dropped off on us, and I think we got a little problem with our phones here. Jennifer was on the line. She started to ask me some questions that I wanted to defer to you. The She wanted to know how many cardinals I told her that are eligible to vote. I think it's one hundred and thirty nine, if I'm not mistaken.
One hundred and thirty three. Actually, Dan, if you didn't show up and we're sick, okay, thirty three.
So now the two thirds of that is going to be probably somewhere around eighty nine. Okay, eighty nine. I was right on that number. Okay, Jennifer has rejoined us. Let's do this, Let's take a break, Let's get our phones right, and we'll come back with Professor Thomas Groom of Boston College, who's a Jesuit theologian. And Jennifer, thank you for calling back. We didn't get you off our phone.
We're giving us a little bit of trouble. We'll get everything all set and we'll come back on Nightside right after this.
So you're on night Side with Dan Ray on WA Boston's news radio.
We're going to go back to the phones and keep our fingers crossed. Jennifer, we got you back here. We just lost Tom Groom here. Something's going on with the phones. Please bring Professor Groom back as quickly as you can. Jennifer, I don't know what's going on with the phones. Can you hear me?
I can can you hear me?
Yes? We can, And I believe that Professor Groom is ready to join us. So you go right ahead. We have Professor Groom on the line. Go ahead, Jennifer. What's your question from my guest?
Oh? Okay, so you had said that there were one hundred and somebody nine people that are actually voting.
Is that one undred?
Professor Groom corrected me. One hundred and thirty three cardinals are present, and so they comprised the conclave, and that means I think it's eighty nine that will be necessary the two thirds majority. But go ahead, you ask your question directly of Professor Groom. He can hear you.
Okay, So how many how many people are actually vying for the pope position? How many of those people are in their running?
Okay, well, professor, go right ahead, professor.
So technically all one hundred and thirty three of them are eligible, and even if it would be possible for them to reach outside of the conclave and I'm appointed archbishop or a bishop, they could easily raise somebody to the level that would be unusual, and it wouldn't be you know, with no precedent recently for in the recent centuries. So it's more more than likely that one of the one hundred and thirty three cardinals that are there, one of them will be selected. You know, it's it's probably
ninety nine to percent likely. And now so that they have to get eighty nine votes, as Dan said, or eighty nine positive votes and the point is of the one hundred and thirty three that are voting Paul France is a point at one hundred and eight of them. In other words, four fifth of them were appointed by Francis. So the assumption is that most people make is that UH have a similar sentiment to poor Francis, that he would have chosen people of like mind to himself, you know,
within reason. I'm sure there'll be lots of the agreements and disagreements, but that generally speaking, there are church people who would be in the mold of Francis. So I would be fairly confident that the next pope will continue the same style and a lot of the a lot of the typical The central agenda of that was the pontificate of poor Francis.
So then the question, the question that Jennifer answer.
I certainly respect Francis for all of his you know, work for the Catholic Church. I think it's just amazing, you.
Know, and for the world and for the world.
Yes, you know, jif Jennifer asked a question which which I'm not sure if you can hear me, but Jennifer asked the question of how many people I think the verbs you use was vying for the job. This is not a job you can really run for, correct, Professor.
Groom, Well, Dan, look at the old Catholic theology is that grace works through nature. In other words, there'll be people there that'll be running for it. But maybe God's grace can work through that as well. You know what I mean. There's never a pure system that comes down from heaven. It always comes through human agency, and the human agency like ourselves of opinions, and they'll agree, and they'll disagree, and they'll be envy and all kinds of
things between them. But meanwhile, as I said, but that's how God's grace works typically through nature. The ordinary in the every day of life is what's sacramental to be the same this in this contlave. So hopefully we'll get a pope that as the blessings of God but also was able to win the majority votes of the conslave.
Aging is age in European.
I'd say, I would say they probably won't want to appoint somebody that's significantly well, what do you mean by old, I mean I would say over eighty. On the other hand, I don't think there's a couple of front runners that are in their sixties. One in particular, Cardinal Pizza Bala. He's very fascinating. He's a patriarch of Jerusalem. He's a hot favorite. But he's only sixty years of age. So if he lived to be ninety, which wouldn't be unusual in this day and age, it might be too long
to have him. So they might pass him over this time and like him the next time. I don't know. We don't know what the Holy Spurs was up to it all, but yeah, there'll be some of them that that might be a bit too young. I mean, some of them might be a bit too old. But then that's all so relative. I I wish Sean O'Malley was running. He'd make a great pope, but unfortunately he passed the
age of eighty. But he'll have a voice, you know, because he's you know, he's very well respected and appreciated in Rome and by the bishops, on the cardios and throughout the world. So I bet he got consulted.
Okay, so he's over eighty, he's not he's not allowed to vote. But could they at some point say well what about Sean O'Malley?
Could could He's conceivable it's conceivable, Danavable, they could easily pick them somebody from outside of there that that has gone past the retirement age. But I'm just sailing good health and so on, and you know the celebrat or now there's all kinds of people who have lived into into into old old age and the big leadership positions.
What about what about the the the cardinal from the Philippines. I'm a couple of yeah.
Yeah about he's a wonderful person. He's a wonderful person, Tagla, and they say very much in the in the mold of Pau Francis. The only difficulty is that the Philippine Church has done very poorly by way of addressing the issue of clergy sex abuse. That they're basically kept it on wraps. And it's a lot of criticism of the Philippine Church. Now, whether Tagley gets gets tired with that
brush or not is a good question. Maybe he you know, he wasn't a part of that, but that that that will be one question about his suitability because that remains a crucial crisis for the church. That has to be that they have to continue address very active, you know, competition huge to.
Have quieted down but it's not going to go away for a long time.
It's not going to go away because in many ways they still have to have to face the question not just what happened, but why did it happen? And why was it allowed to continue happening. Uh, there are questions that we still have to address, and the next pope, hopefully will will address them and and maybe maybe uh the one you mentioned tag lay will will be a fine expression of that. But yeah, we'll have we'll we'll have to wait and see Jennifer.
Any final question from you. Thank you for calling. I'm sorry about the problems with the phones.
Oh that's okay, Jan And I hope to see you over the summer when you're down. And thank you very much for your T shirt.
Appreciate it, all.
Right, word proudly, thanks Jen talk soon. Alrighty, all right. I know Professor Grome that you had talked about the challenges of celibacy in your own personal life, and that's an issue that this pope may have to deal with in some form of fashion.
Yeah, you would think, well, you see again, France has often got things started but then didn't finish them out, Like he had a huge Senate of the South American Church back in twenty nineteen, and the South American Church overwhelmingly in favor of the married priesthood and of restoring priests who had resigned from priesthood to married to restore them to the priesthood. And that passed and was endorsed overwhelmingly by the churches of South America. But France has
never moved on it. See that is just there, so that awaits the next pope.
Uh.
And and not just for South America, for other parts of the world.
For whatever happens, it's it's gonna happen for the for the church universal.
I would think, uh, yeah, you would think so that it wouldn't be just confined to one area.
Professor Groom is always thank you so much for your time.
Thanks Dan, You're the only man. You're the only one would keep me up this late at night.
Well, Uh, you're a fascinating person to talk with. I know my audience learned a lot tonight. And I can't thank you so much for your time and for your service uh to uh to our world and to our to us.
Thank you, thank you, yes, thank you, bye, thank you.
All right, we are gonna go to the News and we're gonna get these phones straightened out and we'll be back on Night's side right after this