It's Night Side with Dan Ray w b Z Constance Radio.
I thought we're getting a second newscast there. Thank you very much, almost did. You're right, no problem. I think all of us are aware of the fact that there is a titanic battle going on between the Trump administration really in the person of the president himself as well as the people who work for him at Harvard University,
a lot of other really important universities around the country. Uh, there is a group that has combined from Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, and others, one of whom has been a guest on this program before, Professor Stephen Pinker, Professor of psychology at Harvard University. Professor Pinker, welcome to Nights Out. I know you have limited time, and I hope that the signal
holds for us here. If I were to characterize you as someone who is not has not been happy with some of the recent trends at Harvard University in terms of intellectual diversity. You have been critical of the administration on some of these issues, and yet you are just as critical now of Donald Trump's administration as he threatens to potentially even go as far as to take away the tax exempt status of the university. Some people might
see those as inconsistent. I do not. I'd like you to explain them.
Sure. Well.
I've been a pretty vocal critic of Harvard. I wrote a viral article a few years ago called the Trouble with Harvard. I wrote an article for The Boston Globe last year called a five point plan for Harvard to save itself. I formed the Council on Academic Freedom at Harvard, with where two hundred faculty are pushing back against what we thought of as not enough a commitment to academic freedom, to intellectual diversity. But we've been pushing Harvard to reform.
I think we've had a number of successes. Harvard scrapped the diversity statements that we did out out job applicants who weren't woke ideologues. We got them to stop issuing pronouncements. We've got them to just public commit to the idea that diversity of viewpoints is a good thing and that has to be fostered. Lots of stuff has been happening.
The latest list of demands the ultimatum from the Trump administration on Friday night is it's just platently ridiculous, as one of my colleagues said, it's an offer that Harvard could not refuse. They would put government bureaucrats in charge of maintaining viewpoint diversity in every department without saying what viewpoint diversity means. Does this mean that government bureaucrats could put creation in the biology department and anti factors?
And the.
It says that we've got to vet students, not in any students who don't endorse American values. Well, you know, I come from Canada, and I'm here to tell you that a lot of Canadians say that the US has too many guns and engages in stupid wars and that doesn't have a good healthcare system. Are we supposed to keep them out? The thing is, if the whole point of the Trump pressure was to enhance freedom of thought,
academic freedom, viewpoint diversity. But if you've got a bunch of government bureaucrats telling us who our professors have to be, what kind of students we admit, setting up a by the way, massive bureaucracy to audit every unit and file reports with the government every three months, you know, I don't even know if they were serious that Harvard could ever accept this, because it really means handing over Harvard
to a hostile takeover. I suspect that they were kind of setting up a confrontation.
Well, the other thing is that, you know, Trump obviously overstating what he hopes to accomplish, so called art of the deal. A lot of we talked about this last night, and a lot of the demands on Harvard, by the way, demands that Columbia in many ways acquiesced to another Ivy League college, a lot of them, lawyers would say would be vague, arbitrary and capricious. Again, and you've highlighted some of those as to who would set up how what
standard would be used. And you know when they talk about American values, well, different people have different explanations of American values, Professor Pinker. We're joined by a mutual friend of ours, Harvey Silverwade, and they just I know that you're limited on time, and I want to make sure Harvey has a chance to say hello. He says he has a bit of a surprise, and Harvey always has good surprises. So let's say, let's let's just bring Harvey
into the conversation. Harvey, welcome back. As always, you're on with someone who needs no introduction to you, A colleague and a friend, Professor Steve Pinker of Harvard University. Go ahead, Harvey.
By coincidence, I wrote a letter two hours ago. I dated in April eighteenth, because I planned to mail her tomorrow morning a postal letter. It reads as follows, Alan Garbe President, John Manning, Provost Harvard University. Dear Allan and John, as you can well understand, I'm very pleased that Harvard is standing up to Donald Trump. In my view, Trump
is associopath, a person with no moral compass. I realize that taking this stand will be financially painful for Harvard in the short term, but Trump will be gone in a bid under four years. Parenthesis has claimed that he can win the third term is legal and constitutional. Monson's close parentheses. Harvard, on the other hand, is older than our nation itself. It shall prevail. Congratulations for showing some backbone.
Harvey Silverglade and Harvey Silverglade, someone who's been critical of Harvard. We seem to have lost Steve Pinker. Rob See if you can bring Professor Pinker back, please, I think that he just got into a bad cell zone. If you can try to re establish that connection with him. I know that he never would have hung up on us or on Harvey. From a legal point of view, Harvey, obviously you probably have the same view of I do as I do, and as Professor Pinker described, you know, vague, arbitrary,
capricious demands. I look at it as if Donald Trump is looking at this as a negotiation of real estate negotiation.
That's how he looks at all these situations.
I know you had some personal dealings with him over the years, Professor Pinker back with us, rob Okay, Professor Pinker, thank you. I think we lost you there for a couple of minutes. Harvey has just written a letter to the President of Harvard, President Garber, in which he commends him for all of this. We were just to bring you back into the conversation. We were just talking, Harvey
and I about this. Is Donald Trump unrestrained, who was looking at this more as a real estate deal, saying, look, you know, I want to buy this building, but I also want to have to buy these other two buildings, and that he's not looking at it as as a as a leak. From a legal perspective, I think he's just he's overreaching as he would in any so called art of the deal. Are we far off on that, Professor Pinker feel free again? Harvey's still with us on the line.
Yes, I don't think it's that, just because I.
Don't think this is good faith negotiation. When it came to Columbia, the ultimatum was you've got to do the following things, and even if you do, we don't promise to restore funding. And again with Harvard, where the demands are far more extreme than what he usould with Columbia. They're so over the top it's not good that Harvard could could accept any of them. They're just not a
reasonable starting point for negotiations. Nor is there a promise that if Harvard did them, then the universe that the Trump administration we're back off as opposed to pocketing the conceptions and concessions and upping the ante. So we're dealing with someone, I think, who just wants to dominate, to fully to humiliate. You know, we've seen that in his other negotiating so called negotiations with Canada, with Denmark, with Ukraine.
So it doesn't seem like just real estate deal where two parties try to hammer out an agreement and meet somewhere in the middle.
Yeah. Well, I just think that his style is to is to ask for more and then accept what he can. Maybe there's nothing that Harvard would acquiesce to has anyone from the administration recognizing that there are people who should be aligned with them, not necessarily philosophically, but at least on the broader issue of what was going on on campuses a year and a year and a half ago post October seventh. You know, some of the issuance I know with Columbia was students no longer could be masked
to hide their identities. There was there was more, I thought, outrageous behavior at Harvard at Columbia than at Harvard. I know Harvard had some incidents. They seemed to me to be less organized. If you if you understand what I'm trying to suggest.
Oh, absolutely, yeah, Columbia. Harvard was bad, Columbia was worse. And you know, it was just a question of follow your own rules, your own procedures of due process. If students clearly cross the line from peaceful process protests to
intimidation and occupation, then apply the rules consistently. And neither Harvard nor Columbia has done that, and if that was the demand Harvard could easily have I've said yes, But turning over the keys to hiring, admissions promotion to the Trump administration in effect goes way beyond just enforcing rules that are on the book that Harvard could easily have lived with.
Okay, I want to ask a question when I come back that I know is in the minds of some of my listeners, and Professor Pinker, I know what We've cut it at ten minutes. I'm just going to ask the one question to both you and Harvey when we come back. If that's okay, and that is you can think about the answer. But I had people last night who were saying to me, well, Harvard has a fifty
three billion dollar in doman, why do they need taxpayer money? Anyway, I'd like to get a response from both both of you. Do that, and then Professor Pinker, I will let you get home with the rest of your evening, and Harvey, I will I will thank you for your participation as well. Could you both just give me a couple of minutes, get through a couple of commercial messages, and respond to that point, because that was a point that folks continued
to raise with me last night on the show. They have fifty feet three billion, why do they need taxpayer money? Fair enough, that's the question you'll ask. And okay, we'll be back with Harvey Silverglate and Professor Stephen Pinker of the Psychology Department at Harvard University. And if you'd like to jump on board. They will be leaving us, but I want to open up to your your thoughts as well.
Harvey may stay with us a little while, if that's possible, six months, seven two thirty, six months, seven nine thirty back right after this with a concluding segment with Professor Stephen Pinker, and may or may not be a concluding segment with Harvey Silverglate back on Nightside.
Right after this, It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's News.
We're joined by Professor Stephen Pinker of the Psychology Department at Harvard University. In Harvey Silverglade, who is a frequent guest and contributed to this program. So I want to ask the question that I think in your absence a lot of people would be thinking, that is, why does Harvard needs need federal money when they have fifty three billion dollars in endowments. Professor pinkerm, I'd like to start with you, if that's okay.
Sure, well, it's not just a piggy bank that it can break open, and I use to support research indefinitely. For one thing, a lot of those funds are earmarked for buy their donors, for chairs, for professors, for scholarships, for student athletic facilities. Without that money, Harvard could no longer have the policy of not turning away any student for lack of funds. No one has turned away.
From Harvard because they can't afford.
It, all right, Harvey, you common welfare.
It's not kind of welfare. Harvard is giving the country something in return, namely research on how the brain works and how kids develop and cures for cancer. So without that money, the Harvard couldn't support that research definitely. I mean if it ate at seed Corn, at some point it would be gone. And it's not just support again, it is paying for research that benefits the entire population.
All right, Harvey, let me get your response. I'm sure you agree with Professor Pinker generally.
I do, but I would go further. I don't care what the money went for. I wouldn't care if Harvard was throwing it down a sinkhole. You lose it under a threat. That is the problem. If the White House can threaten Harvard and this, they can virtually take over and run the university. I don't agree with the Palestinian point of view, but I believe that they be allowed to demonstrate it's got nothing to do with what the money was for.
All right, gentlemen, I thank both of you. Professor Pinker, you've stayed with us longer. I really do appreciate it. Some night, when we get you in a room and a chair, well we'll see if we get you for an entire hour. But thank you very much. And again, your scholarship is important. But your position here. The White House would have been very smart, professor, to have reached out to the leadership of this group that you have formed.
No one reached out to you and said, hey, gee, we actually have people on college campuses who we can form an alliance with on the issue of academic freedom and a and some changes that might be necessary and acceptable.
No, no, they did not. They don't have us on speak dial unfortunately.
Yeah. Well I think it's there. I think it's their loss, professor, think. Thank you so much. We'll look forward to having you back soon.
Okay, thanks so much having me back, happy to speak to you.
Thank you very much, Harvey Silver Glad. I'm gonna hold you. We're gonna get some phone calls coming in here. Uh as the as the as the evening goes on. Uh and uh and I do appreciate uh you. I knew this would be your reaction. It you know, you you The line is pretty clear. The line is pretty clear on all of these demands, and some of them. I just wonder who wrote who wrote up this letter?
Was it?
Do you think it was Stephen Miller or someone like that. I mean, it's just the letter goes way over what I think any university would ever be able to commit to. Your quick comment on the demands, Did we lose Harvey some administration? Yes, towards towards Harvard. There are really there are about eight of them, or I think you know, they pulled them out of the letter. Uh. And they they are very specific, and they're very broad, and they're
very far. They're very you know, they're they're such asks over.
They wanted to take over. It was a non violent takeover of Harvard University. They wanted to run the place.
Yeah, how is it that they that someone didn't look at that? I mean, everybody there are people in the White House are still smart people. How did not someone look at the place and look that isn't ask that is way beyond what we should be asking for.
Maybe they did. Trump doesn't listen to anybody. He thinks he's God's gifts to humanity.
Yeah. Well, I mean, I know you've had personal dealings with him across the table, and they can speak from the can speak from some experience.
You know.
I'm going to be honest with your Harvey. I think he's done some good things in his first eighty four or five days whatever it is, including finally tightening up the border. And I do think there have been some things some of the executive orders were necessary, but this to me seems like an overreach. I mean, the first one has changed the government.
Go ahead, even a clock that's not working is right twice a day.
Fair enough. I'm just going to read a couple of these change the governance of the leadership to reduce the power of students, faculty, and administrations more committed to activism than scholarship. I for the life of me, don't understand what he means by that.
Is why.
Yeah, I mean, and it's impossible for me just gonna respond to it. It is, it's unclear, it's it's beyond arbitrary, vague and capricious. We'll be back with Harvey Silverglate in phone calls. I only have one line open six, one, seven, two, five, four, ten, thirty. All points of view are welcomed here, Okay. Do I think that HARVD was adequate at the hearings in Washington, d C. Fifteen months ago which resulted in the resignation
of the then president Claudion Gay, Absolutely not. Do I think that they were responsive to the demonstrations that went on on their campus, Absolutely not. Those those demonstrations never rose to what went on at Columbia, and Harvey would probably disagree with me on this one. But I was appalled when I heard a Columbia professor say in the wake of October seventh that the events of October seventh
left him with a feeling of exhilaration. When I come back, I'm going to ask Harvey to comment on that stage. Harvey is the ultimate free speech advocate here, I guess have a right to be appalled. I'll see if Harvey agrees or disagrees. Here comes the news. We'll be right back with phone calls and Harvey Silverglade on Nightside.
Night Side. Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
All right, Harvey Silverglade, you're familiar, I think with the professor at Columbia who, in the wake of October seventh, I think, used the phrase that he had never been so exhilarated than when he watched that. That's a pretty sick statement for anyone to make, never mind a college professor that's molding the minds of young people. Does he have a right to make that statement? Yeah, But I think you also have to be responsible for what you say.
Well, Columbia has been a disgrace. My son is an alum of Columbia. He's very unhappy. What more can I say?
So, I mean, you know, I guess what I'm what I'm trying to say is I'm not asking that the professor be fired for making that statement, because that obviously because approachment in the First Amendment. But when you think that somehow someone of that mentality, I'm not sure if he's tenured or he's on tenure track or whatever, that Columbia. That shows to me, within the administration of Columbia, you know,
a perversity that I don't quite understand how anyone. I mean, I wonder what his reaction to seeing pictures of the Holocaust would be.
Well, all I could say is Colombia's standing in the university world has fallen dramatically. They are going to have a loss of donations. They're going to have a loss of applications. It's going to destroy a previously great institute. One decision is enough to destroy this great institution. It shows how fragile reputation is.
Yeah, I guess, I guess. Let's let's get to some phone calls here and again, folks, you have Harvey and me. Professor Peaker had promised me ten minutes. He stay with us longer than that. Let me go to Paul in South Hamilton. Paul, thanks for getting the conversation going. You're on with Harvey Silverglke right ahead.
Okay, Dan and Harvey. I wish Stephen was on the phone. Also, I'm just asking all of you to check your biases at the door now. Harvey, do you know the arguments of Noam Chomsky regarding what free speech is I do. And in principle, it's if you're not for the right of the speech that you despise, whether it's the speech or the right of the person who you despise to speak,
then you're not for free speech at all. And I think it's important that we remember this just two days before the Revolution, in light of what the Bill of Rights means and what an open society is. So I do appreciate when Harvey you do discuss these issues in a mature and responsible way. Dan, you're trying to go to them with rather weak arguments, Lindsey Grahama the Senate.
Do mean, don't accuse me of something that's inaccurate. I think that the most interesting and probably the strongest argument that the other point of view could raise, and was raised last night in a couple of other context is, and this is the way to sharpen the argument is you're going to take taxpayer money from individuals who have never been to Harvard, never had a chance to going to Harvard, maybe never even drove by Harvard, and who themselves have worked blue collar jobs and paid a lot
of taxes in their lives, and we're asking them to support universities with which they disagree. It's one I don't know that everyone in America is a is a disciple of Noam Chomsky's positions on free speech, so I wasn't trying to go to him. I knew that Harvey and Steve Pinker would give very adequate answers, and I attempted to give them that opportunity.
Dan If I may just as a quick follow up, on the floor of the Senate, Lindsey Graham spoke about turning Gaza into a parking lot. It's the same principle he exercises his free speech right to the floor of the Senate.
I get.
It's the taxpayers pay for it, yep, just as a college professor or foreign national student does when they're yelling out at Harvard Square or on the.
I think, well, again, I think when you get to foreign nationals, you're you're in a different category here. And Harvey may disagree with me on this, but if we're accepting people who to come to this country to be educated here and are foreign nationals, they're not US citizens, they have certain rights. I'm not suggesting that they should be summarily deported. No. But at the same time, I
do think that depending. I'm very troubled by the arrest of the Turkish woman because I have seen no evidence of her doing anything that was directly supportive of Hamas. If all of a sudden you can show me evidence that she was funneling money to Hamas, I'm going to I'm going to be mightily convinced that I'd like to see turn turned out of the country.
Harvey follow up on speech versus materials support for terrorism and also Harvey, please explain why when you're on United States soil the Bill of Rights should apply to you regards wardless of citizenship. Please speak about that jurisprudence, and I'll take the answer off there.
Stay right, stay right there, Paul, because the Bill of Rights does apply. However, people you would would you're not going to take someone who commits a crime in the US and who is a US citizen and say to them, we're gonna we're going to deport you to El Salvador
and you're going to serve your prison in in Al Salvador. If, on the other hand, someone has come here illegally and they are they have committed a crime in this country illegally, while here illegally, they become very deportable, Harvey, go right ahead.
Yeah, I agree with you. I mean it is this is a simple, a simple issue. It really is quite simple. It doesn't matter what the ideological perspective of the person is, and it's is as simple as that. Let me tell you something. I had a.
Client who has to be unnamed, who is a faculty member of Columbia, and his free speech was This was about twenty years ago. And I wrote to the General Council, which is what lawyers have to do. They can't write to the president directly ethically, and complained about this and I got nowhere, and then I decided to write to the Board of Columbia, and I wrote a letter to the Board about this. General Council threatened to file a ethics complaint against me. I told him to go right
ahead and do so. The next day, the chairman of the Board contacted the President and instructed him to not go after this professor, and the General Council never filed an ethics complaint against me.
That's a good result on all points. Let me ask you this, Paul, if if if you were living here in World War two and there was a German citizen living in America uh and was funneling money back to uh TO to the German army during World War Two. Would they be deportable or or would you keep would you keep them here?
This is how I'll evaluate your hypothetical. First, is I spoke about speech versus what's called material support.
Dan right now, And I was just clarifying that that I was appalled when the argument was made. I just don't want you to mischaracterize my position. I was appalled when when she was arrested on the streets for what appears to have been an op ed piece in the Toughs newspaper, a student newspaper. I'd like to see before any action is taken against her, even the action that
has been taken, I'd like to see some proof. But if the proof rises to a certain level, her due process rights are not going to rise to the same level as a US citizen.
You know, Dan, and don't want a monopolis. But I appreciate this back and forth. And we are so lucky to live in a society where we can talk over the radio freely about these issues.
You're very lucky to have a program, I gotta tell you're very lucky to have a program the quality of Nightside where people like Harvey Silverglade are regular guests at people like Stephen Pinker and last hour of the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School. And we're lucky to have listeners like you and calls like you, Paul, and.
So if that made us follow up due process habeas corpus the student from Columbia who are sent to the detention center in Louisiana, can Harvey tell us if he was charged with the crime.
I don't know that he's been charged with the crime, but I don't know what evidence they have at this point.
Of course, are they over here to produce that evidence to a judge.
It's irrelevant because he would be presumed innocent.
Right who convinces reminding? Thank you for reminding the audience of the presumption of innocence and what a written constitution means, particularly here in Massachusetts, which has the oldest living constitution, in effect, the.
Bill of Rights, the Bill of Rights of the the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution was actually patterned entered the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights, because the Declaration of Rights is older than the Bill of Rights. Yes, thanks, that's good.
To remind me.
Well, thank you very much, appreciate you call. Have a great night. We will be back on nightside after this very quick break. The only line of six, one, seven, ten thirty. Let's have at it. Coming back on nightside.
You're on night Side with on Easy Boston's news radio.
Back to the phones we go, going to go to Paul in Chicago. Paul, you were next on the night Side with Harvey Silver. Go ahead, Paul, Phil. Excuse me, Phil, I misreaded Phil in Chicago.
Okay, here I am.
I just want to say that I watched TV tonight and Larry O'donnald with the Harvard and by the way I found it, went to Boston, call it the Harvard. That's a great show on the sky down. I'll sell the GOP at the other Hi, Harvard grads that that's on TV. Evan so well does Lawren. She called the other day about this president, saying it will.
Do me a favor. I have no idea if you're talking into your cell phone, but I'm having trouble hearing you, and I suspect Harvey might be having trouble in my audience. So I want Rob to walk you through this and get a better audio connection. Rob, just just get him cleaned up for us a little bit. Let me go to Sandra in Boston in the meantime.
Go ahead, Sandra, Hi, Dan, thank you very much for this topic, and I am.
Glad that we can discuss it.
And I too share your concerns about the Turkish students from TOTS. This is such a complex issue. I think a lot of these protests that are taking place on our university campuses are not fully being operated by students who are registered there. I think there are a lot of outside vectors, you know, maybe some George source money and other things.
I think one of the.
And some of what I think Trumps group may be doing may be provocative to try to get some discussion on the subject. I'm hoping that's kind of where what it's about, okay. And part of that may be because people like Peter Navarro went to prison. I mean, Peter Navarro is a graduate of TOUGH and has a PhD from Harvard. So I think this is a very complex issue, and we look at the power structure in a place like Boston. We have people paying property tax who have
virtually no power in electing their representatives. Anymore because the university platforms are so powerful. I mean, look at we have a senator from Oklahoma who was affiliated with Harvard.
We have a.
Harvard grad in the governor's seat. We have a law student who came from Chicago, you know, via Harvard and is the mayor, and my city councilor is affiliated with Harvard. I mean, this is a very powerful platform that they have to operate from. And if there's money coming from outside, and if they're you know, perhaps some people who want a certain agenda presented, it's complex.
It's very it's very complex, and you've you've identified it very well in my in my opinion, Sandra, where does it take you at the end of the day on the demands which what we're talking about, and the threats by President Trumpell by the administration to take away Harvard's tax exempt status.
Well, you know how he does these things with tariffs. You know, he kind of gets everybody edgy. It seems to be he has this provocative style and then he kind of reins it back in. I mean, the fact is that Harvard has fifty three billion dollar endowment and they can operate like a that's a that's the GDP of a small country.
Right, right. But you heard the question, and I asked, I asked that that. I asked that question of professor Pinker, who who is no fan of what has been going on at Harvard for the last few years. Nor is Harvey Silverglade a fan of what is going on at Harvard, and he would identify with a lot of what you just said. But they both responded, and Harvey can can repeat his response if he wants that the fifty three billion dollar endowment should be irrelevant to whether or not
it continues to receive a tax exemp status. It's one thing, I guess to take money away from Harvard in terms of holding back grants, et cetera. But then the next step is to withdraw the tax exempt status, which means Harvard then would have to pay tax rates. Harvey, do you want to restate your position for Sandra in case she missed it on that issue?
My position is it right or wrong? Harvard state Harvard has done the right thing. It's got nothing to do with whether Trump is right or Harvard is right. It's got to do with academic freedom and Harvard. Harvard will be digging into its endowment it's taken a large loan, and that's to get through this and to keep its integrity and protect its academic freedom.
At As a taxpayer, I've been paying taxes on a property for forty years in the city of Boston, and I am fully aware that over fifty percent of the land in Boston is nonprofit and that my property taxes have to have to make up that. And right now I'm on the waiting list for a doctor. You know, a primary care doctor that.
Brings out last hour, that brings our last hour into the conversation. I hope you listened to our last because that's exactly what we were talking about. Harvey. Let me give you final word with Sandra, and then I want to go back and try to get Phil back in the air hold on Sandra, Go ahead, Harvey.
You can debate all you want whether or not universities should have tax exemption. That is not the issue. The issue is whether the tax exemption should be taken away for a position that the university has taken. It's as simple as that. To me, this is a very simple issue.
All right, Fair enough, Sandra, thank you for your call in your comments. I really do appreciate it. And I hope you continue to call the show.
Okay, thank you, thank you much.
Let me go back Rob. Hopefully we got Phil lines lying a little bit better. Phil, I hope we can hear you a little bit more clearly.
Go ahead, Hey damn it's Phil.
Yep, Go ahead, Phil. I hope that that Rob has approved your audio connection.
Go right ahead. Their name is Bill. But anyway, I see Lawrence on Donald on TV and he's one of the best. On MSNBC. You don't see anybody like this on Fox number two. Uh uh missus uh uh. Senator was arguing with the dead president of doing away with the him uh, the the guy in charge of money for the fit of Reserve. How what foolish that would be. But that's the kind of comments you get from Harvard people.
The chat.
They're great and I really enjoy it. And the the other thing is that you know, uh, these other schools like University of Texas, Alabama, Mississippi judge, what did they do with their money? They got football teams and basketball teams, that's all they want. Look at the basketball teams they play they have, they're all black.
They don't have U.
I won't go into it, but it's it's it's it's it's discussing what they do with their money.
But well, athletics is a big is a big part of the part of the university's bill. I think we're venturing off into a different area here. A lot of those schools get a great more support from their donors because of they got a football team. And down in Alabama football is bigger than the Red Sox and the Patriots, the Bruins and the Celtics combined, probably.
Because football is about if the money that have, it's got habit's got money. They smack people gives to it. They have reasons for giving them money. How did have a hell of a football team, hockey, basketball, but they decide to give them money to good cars? Is now nothing done with that.
They do have. They do have a good hockey team and their football team is pretty good as well. Bill, like I got a run.
Part this year, I have no clue.
I have no clue. I have no clue. I don't I know it was either BCBU, Harvard or Northeastern that I can tell you. One of those four teams won it. Thanks Bill, have a great night, Harvey Silverglade. As always, thank you, so much. I always appreciate your, uh, your participation, and I'm glad that I could get both you and Steve pinker On together because you're a couple of good guys. Thank you so much. Did we lose Harvey?
Yeah?
I think we I think we lost Harvey. No, okay, Harvey. I had to say. We're heading to the eleven o'clock news. We want to say thanks for joining us.
It's my pleasure, my duty.
Actually, all right, Paal, we'll talk soon, okay, thanks very much. All right, all right, just phone calls you and me between now and midnight. Join the conversation, your thoughts six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I got some open lines. Let's fill them up.