It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVS, Boston's news radio.
I don't want to channel Bob Lobell, great sportscaster that I work with at Channel four so many years, but Brad Marshaan, Why can't we get players like that in Boston. I'm sure Dan Watkins is heiring me, and he's probably screaming at the top of his lungs. But I'm only joking. I hope Marsian wins the Stanley Cup. That's who I'm rooting for. I don't know Marsian, but I hope he picks up a Stanley Cup this year. We are not talking about the Stanley Cup. We're talking about a really
sad story. It was in late April. It was in a Monday afternoon in April. I think it was April twenty eighth. If I'm not mistaken, I should check my calendar here to be absolutely sure. But a little boy, five year old boy got off his school bus. He was a kindergarten student at a Boston public school that was the twenty eighth, got off the bus and somehow
some way of us struck him and he died. And this has become a big story at least, it's a big story to me, and it's also a big story to my guest, Rob Burchie, who is an attorney associated with the New England First Amendment Coalition. Rob, I guess let let me leave this in your very competent hands. This is a case that the New England First Amendment Coalition is is looking for more information, more public information. This is a story that has kind of disappeared from
the headlines. Why do we not know more about the circumstances of the crash that the status of the investigation is. What was the driving record of this driver who reported and I believe you folks have on earthed some information had a pretty poor driving record and maybe arguably never
should have been driving Boston school buses. Welcome to Nightside first of all, Rob, and maybe you can can can set the stage for us in terms of the issues that the New England First Amendment Coalition is I think so rightfully concerned about.
Thanks some upstand, I'm pleased to be with you. It is in fact the Transgit case. I was particularly struck to see the photo in the globe of this boy's casket emblazoned with Spider Man. You know, it moves your heart. The transity here is amplified by the fact that we are able to know so little about the driving history of the bus driver who struck.
Lens.
What we do know found out is that he was taken off the road for two days about two weeks before the accident, for some retraining. We know that he had four other crashes in the month preceding when he struck Lens. We have information that he had three other accident incidents or indicating that he had three other incidents right before what happened with Lens hitting a parked car, hitting a rear tire, or something like that. Why don't
we know more? The reason we don't know more is really the function of well intentioned law called the Work and Family Mobility Act, which was intended to allow immigrants to apply for learners permits, to take road tests, and to obtain drivers licenses without having to give proof of
their being in the country legally. But the wording of that statute, and particularly the regulations that the Attorney General implemented to enforce them, are so broad that they essentially make it impossible to obtain the driving history of any Massachusetts resident, which is contrary to what the situation was before the law was passed. Drivers' histories have always been available.
We learned about yeah, go ahead.
Well the other thing that I found interesting, and again I'm interested in this story. I've done a couple of hours on the fact that there's so so it's a real positive information. And John Hilliot from the Globe staff renewed my attention on this today. And I guess he
had problems here in Massachusetts. But one of the records, according to the reporter from the Globe, John Hilliard had speeding tickets in New Jersey in twenty sixteen, Connecticut in twenty eighteen, and in twenty seventeen, he was in violation of a New York law of in proper licensed class or endorsement. Though I guess the details are somewhat sketchy. This is like a guy that never should have been
driving a school bus. I mean, with this record, it seems to me, I don't know, and somehow the Massachusetts and you know, we value transparency. You know, it's up to your organization, the organization that you're affiliated with, the New England First Amendment Coalition, to get some of this information. And I haven't heard much from any of the political leaders.
How frustrating is it to run up against the law that you characterize as well intentioned back in twenty twenty three, this Work Family Mobility Act, and realized that the law was presented as a law which was going to help people who were here earn a living and get to work even though they did not have legal status. And now it seems as if it basically allows a lot of information to be withheld. I never saw that being highlighted when this law was passed and we discussed it a couple of years ago.
Well, you know, Dan, we do say we value transparency in the Commonwealth, but indeed we have one of the weakest public record statutes in the country. And the reaction on this issue has confirmed that meyri Wu and the school superintendent are both against disclosure of the driving record. Although I think if you read the regulations, the registry actually would be allowed to release this information. It's not required to release the information, but it would be allowed to.
Governor Healy, for Toure credit, has supported a change in the REGs to allow such histories to be given out.
But now she's the governor of Massachusetts, and again I don't want to impugne her motives here. And I saw on the story that John Hilliard reported that she also supports releasing the records according to a spokesperson, But it seems to me that as the governor, she could instruct
the Registry of Motor Vehicles. I guess a little problem is that the Attorney General is the one who's interpreting the law and has instructed the Registry of Motor Vehicles not to release any information, as I understand the checkerboard. If you will, am, I do I have that for you accurately.
You absolutely do. And in fact, in September last year, well before this incident meeth Act, the New England First Amendment Coalition of which on our board member, sent a letter to the Attorney General Campbell uh complaining about the Work and Family Mobility Act and the regulations under it because the way it was being interpreted was outside the scope and intent of the of the Act itself by making it impossible to get individual driving records or commercial
driver's license records. And what what was that was the last September. We followed up twice and still have not received a response to that letter, not even.
The courtesy of a response, which is troubling. So my other question is, and again I don't want to I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think you said that Mayor Wou and the Superintendent of schools in Boston, Mary Skipper, who the the leaders won, the superintendent of schools the other the mayor of Boston, who you would think would have the most interest, they
have chosen not to release information. Either are they doing that as far as you know, with the legal guidance of the Attorney General, or are they doing it on their own.
I don't know, Okay, yeah, I don't know what the motivation is. I don't understand what the motivation is. When you're home withhold documents, you just increase suspicion that there's wrongdoing or something more to hide than what we already know about.
And I know that the lawyer for the for the family of the little boy who died, who was killed, he's trying to get more information. You just I don't know. You know, for for a an enlightened state, you know that that believes that if this was one of the states in other parts of the country where maybe uh, you know, there's not such a value put on transparency. You might understand it and say, well, that's that's backwater, you know, filling the name of the state you might choose,
but this is Massachusetts. And as a little boy who was dead five years old and you cannot who just got off his school bus, a kindergarten student who was absolutely innocent to the world. None of the politicians who were involved have been impacted as this family has. I just don't know. The little boy's name is Lens Arthur Joseph. He was a kindergartener at the up UP Academy in Dorchester.
It's heartbreaking. What is the next move that the New England First Amendment Coalition might consider or are you still calculating and figuring out what you try to do next.
We're still doing some calculating. We are preparing now a follow up letter to the Attorney General that will obviously build on what happened to Lynnz Joseph and talk about
that and we'll fight for new regulations, you know. In twenty twenty three, John Halliard points out in his excellent Clothes story, in twenty twenty three, we were allowed to get the driver's records of Boston City Councilor Kendra Laura, after she drove her vehicle into a jamake a plane home and to show that she was behind the wheel despite her license having been revoked. She didn't have insurance, she had an expired inspection sticker. Today, we would not
be able to get that information. Today, we would not be able to get the driver's background information for any of.
The other.
Bus drivers, or transfer according our children to the Boston public schools.
I might add too, and again I don't want to politicize this because that's not the purpose of our conversation, but the then Boston City councilor, who obviously was pretty embarrassed by what was going on, her son, I believe was only five or six years old, was in the backseat of the car and reportedly I don't believe was wearing a seat belt or was injured somehow in the crash,
whether he was wearing it or not. She eventually was defeated as she stood for re election, and I suspect that that ugly automobile crash and all the information that came forward probably was instrumental in the minds of many of her constituents as to whether they wanted to return her to the city council or not. And she was. She was a very rare incumbents city councilor who lost the election. And if this law had been in place, we probably never would have known and her constituents would
have never known about it. And again that is the need, is the need for transparency. Rob. I appreciate your time. I know you spend as you have a long day. I'd love to have you back. Let's stay on top of this if we can help you in any way, shape or form. Let us know the New England First Amendment Coalition great organization. Folks can find it pretty easily. I assume they could become members or support it whether they happen, if you bar or not.
Correct, absolutely absolutely, and you'll find a lot of very interesting resources on our website. Fact dot org any fac dot org.
Sounds great, rob Berchie, thank you very much for your time. It's the end of a long day for you, and I thank you for your time this evening and look forward to having you back on at some point. Let's keep on, Let's keep on top of the story.
Thanks Stan for the opportunity and for shedding a light on decision pleasure my absolute pleasure.
Thanks Bob when we get back and want to open up the phone lines. I mean, this is a piece of legislation that was passed in twenty twenty three, which I don't think if people knew what the legislature was doing, was in effect removing transparency as well as providing an opportunity for people who were not here legally to still
apply for learners permits and to seek driving licenses. That that was not the intent, in my opinion, of this piece of legislation, but it obviously has been as their consequence, the effect and the impact of it. We've talked about it before. Where's Mayor Wu, where is the superintendent of schools? Where's the attorney general? On this? This is an issue that I think it's got nothing to do with Democrat versus Republican. It has everything to do with who's in charge.
If you'd like to join us, And this is a story that it could have been any It could have impacted any one of us if we've ever had children of that age and who have ridden on school buses. This is just this cannot stand. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty I think the mayor who found who finds herself in another controversy today, which we might talk about tomorrow.
I want to know, Mayor Wu, why don't you provide the information on this accident so we can understand what happened and potentially why it happened, and as a matter of fact, how in the heck could have this ever have happened, that this little boy loses his life to someone who's driving a school bus, who not only should have been driving a school bus, but whose driving record should have proven to the world he was not someone
who should have been trusted behind the wheel. Join the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I got a couple of other topics, so this is one. Don't wait around on bring it and let's talk about it. And if you want to keep on talking about it, we can, but I will shut it off at ten o'clock if the interest is not there, because there were a couple other topics we're going to talk about back on night side.
My name is Dan Ray, and again I'm not tilted in windmills. I'm telling you right now this is the court of public opinion and the mayor and the superintendent in Boston are dead wrong.
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Okay, let's go to the phone. It's going to go to Peter in Braintree first. Peter, you of first this hour on Nightside. Thanks for getting us. Going love to know what you think about this story, this little five year old boy. We know so little now about the driving record of the driver, what happened, how this child lost their life. I'm I'm furious over correct. You go right ahead, Peter.
Okay, I love my five year old daughter to start until by the school bus in nineteen eighty six.
Oh my god, Peter, I'm so sorry.
Oh and I.
Another day there was a kid from the Cape and who who did every time I I I tried to communicate with the family and going to the wake and just so they understand that I understand what they're going through. And I'm m I got. And it was also the day that Christine mccalli the Space shows. Yes sure, yeah, so so my my my pa. My pain is suffering, Peter.
Very very very if I could without causing you additional pain, here, uh was your daughter?
Uh?
She had was she waiting for the bus, had she gotten off the bus?
It was in the one and it was in the one she was getting on the bus and five years old. Just the the channel in my life and uh uh I think.
The uh, Peter, Peter looking, I don't. I don't want you to have to relive that.
I just I just no, no, no, no. The reason I called, I just said, you know you're talking, You're.
I would I would.
Be more than happy to go talk to this family. And you know, I almost like even though it's thirty years ago.
Yeah, Peter, what I what I might suggest to you is that I do not have contact with the family. However, in the Globe story this morning, their attorney, one of their attorneys is an attorney Matthew Fogelman. Rob. If you could write that down for me, Matthew Fogelman, I'm sure Peter would be able to contact him and uh and he would be able to uh reach out to his.
I would really like to just.
I understand that. And even even if you could just send a message. But so Rob will help you. Matthew Fogelman. Rob is the name f O G E. L M A n H. And make sure that that Peter has that name. Okay, and if you want to give Peter my direct line, but Peter, hold hold on, Peter, Yeah, Peter, just for a second, Robi, if you want to give him my direct line, I'll be happy to try to track that lawyer down for him if he has had any problems with it. Okay, Peter, thank you for your calling.
I'm so sorry at what you went through. Just horrible, horrible, thank you. All right, thanks, thank you, Peter. Okay, when we get back, we'll continue our conversation. The number six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty. Got a couple of lines at six one seven nine three one. Why is it in Massachu? It's you know, a state that is supposed to be as enlightened as we are, as we claim to be. Let me put it like that, that we are not able to look this this, this driver's name is out there, okay.
Uh.
I assume at some point there must be a grand jury sitting on this. We're not going to let it die, Okay. I guarantee you that I'll do a story every week on it if I have to. But where's the where's the district attorney? D? A. Hayden? Where is where's the mayor, where's the school superintendent, where's the attorney general. It sounds like to me just everybody's going to shut up about it,
and the and and it's going to go away. No, it's not going to go away as long as this reporter is like John Hilliard at the Globe, and I hope someone from the Herald picks up the baton as well. The only line is six one, seven, ten thirty. Coming right back on night Side.
It's nice with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Well, here we are in New England, where we think of ourselves as being fairly advanced dealing with an issue like this, and now we find out that the books and the information is closed and you have to have a great First Amendment Coalition, the New England First Amendment Coalition. Rob Burchie was with us in the earlier in this hour, the frustrations that they have just trying to get simple information from our political leaders and our administrative leader. Steven
is in Cambridge. Steve, welcome, How are you, sir?
Dan?
I'm well on youse.
I'm doing fine. But this is one that I'm going to stick with. Steve. I gotta tell you.
I'm glad to hear that. I think you're the first person I saw that story in the Globe today and thought it was a very good story. But when I saw it, I immediately thought of you, because you brought up these issues. You brought up this matter before I saw anything in either Globe bar the Herald.
Yeah, well, we were on and I can probably find the exact date, but sometime sometime in mid March. As a matter of fact, I can almost pull the date off here, just so that people know that you're you're telling telling the truth here. Yeah, it was May fourteenth, no news on the bus death of five year old Lens Joseph, And we're going to stick with it. It was.
I thought that John Hilliard and the Globe did a great job today, and I know that the New England First Amendment Coalition is a great organization and on this issue they are one thousand percent right. What do you think's going on? Why do you think this has been covered up? Basically?
I mean, well, I have two points. The first point is I think that this law was probably designed to protect illegal immigrants who have very bad driving records, or his records are completely unknown, and the affirmative action that was probably put in place by mass legislators and mass political leaders. And this is a way to cover up any kind of scrutiny.
By by the way, let me if I can given this is an air quotes. Credit to the sponsors of this piece of legislation, who did not return any calls today from the Boston Globe, State Senator Brendan Crichton and state Representatives Christine Barber and Tricia Farley Bouvier. I know
that Tricia Farley Bouvier is a very progressive legislator. Legislator, trust me on that they surprisingly did not respond to any any request for comments from the Boston Globe, nor did the Attorney General, nor did the Mayor's office here in Boston. It's disgraceful. This little boy's been dead now for six weeks, six weeks today.
Well, and I wonder the gentleman from the First Amendment.
Yes, Bertie Rob Burchie.
I can't see why he said this law had good intentions. I mean, this law is a form of censorship. Well, the public can't get information, hiding information, How can that ever be in our nation considered good?
I think what he was saying and I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think what he was saying was that it was entitled if remember the Family Mobility Act, and there were a lot of people said, well, this will be great because people who were here, even if they're here illegally, they at least
will be able to get driver's licenses. Remember we had argued a couple of years ago that if they were going to pass it, have driver's licenses, which if it was inevitable they're going to pass, said, you know, most of our driver's licenses are what I would call horizontal. If you look at them there longer than than taller.
Just turn these other licenses and make them a different shape, make them, you know more, you know, perpendicular, and so that police officers when they stop these drivers they who you know, who were not citizens, uh, and have gotten a special break from the legislature that that police officers would know who they're dealing with. But no, the legislature wanted no part of that. They wanted to give the exact identical type driver's licenses to people who are not
here legally. And I think what Attorney Bertie was saying was that that even if the intention of the legislature was to make driver's licenses available to people so at least they could maybe survive and become more self sufficient. And if that was the purpose, the impact of the result is that information about accidents that involve anyone, whether they're here legally or US citizens, now going to get shrouded.
Oh well, I mean I think anything that Again, I think that you know, for example, when they make it so that employers can't find out the criminal records of you know, they say they we want, I mean that should be up to the employer to make that decision. I don't think the public should be you know, shield the truth. Yeah well, I.
Was just saying that you and I think alike. And if we were in the state legislature, we never voted for this piece of legislation. Okay, but there are not enough people in the state legislature who are smart enough. First of all, look at the leadership up there right now. Uh, no one in the state legislative leadership is attending MENSA meetings. Okay, that we know, so they they will just you know, put a bill through. Nobody reads the bill. All the vote.
Those of you who want to you know, who want to vote, vote yes, Okay, raise your hand, okay, go right ahead. They follow the leadership whatever the leadership tells him to do. That's all a bunch of a bunch of sheep.
Well, as you always say, Dan, it's it's at the ballot box that things have to change.
Well, they do, and unfortunately this little boy and his family, this is being brushed under the rug. I mean, look, there would be more publicity about this if there was some person who was homeless who died in the street. Okay, But this is a five year old boy, little boy who was simply doing what you know. His family wanted to get him a bus and go to school and get his education, and he was doing everything right. He probably didn't even realize what he was doing at five,
I mean, go to school and all that. But but there's no there's there's no one up there speaking for the five year olds at the Massachusetts legislature.
Okay, it certainly seems not.
Dan.
Keep on this story. I hope they'd unfolds in a way that may prevent something like this happening Land.
I hope so that this law should certainly be amended for the Attorney General to interpret it this way. I hold her fault for this interpretation. I think it's an intentional interpretation. And Steve, by the way, I've had like a few phone calls here. You heard Peter's call yours. There's a lot of people who are sitting listening to the show tonight who don't want to pick up a telephone and call. I want to hear from the moms.
Can you imagine if that was your child, five year old child, you'd be going out of your mind totally. At least I would I invite them to call six seven take.
I was just so happy to see that story in the Globe today.
Globe did a great job on it, and hats off to the Globe. Hats off to the Globe on that one. And I don't take my hat off to the Globe too often.
That they do something right every once in a while.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that, Steve. I appreciate the call. Thanks Steve, talk soon, all right, good night. Steve is a great caller. He's one of my cherished callers, and I hope some of you become great callers. I think this is an important story. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten, thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty, coming right back on Nightside.
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio, Rock to the Calls.
Who goes go to Victor and jamake a plane. Victor, appreciate your calling. In your next on Nightside, Victor, go right ahead.
How are you going, Dan, Good evening, Good evening.
I have different feelings on this. I actually catch a list almost every day to go to work in different places. I can tell you from personal experiences, my personal experience, some of these drivers.
Need to be dry. Thing they don't.
I know.
It is legislation that's put in place that prevents some of them from driving. However, and I understand people need to make a living. I understand that totally, but you have you need to have some safety measures in place. When I was an electronics class, they said safety first. Okay, that's how That's how I feel about this issue.
Because a five year.
Old getting off the bus from kindergarten school just shouldn't have happened.
Period. It shouldn't have happened.
It's unbelievable, and now it's being covered up. It's you know, if well.
Because no one wants to take the blame. That's this long short of it.
Well, but but I thought we elected political leaders who appoint administrative leaders who have some responsibility to the public. Where's the responsibility to this child, Where's the responsibility to this child's family, Where's the responsibility to the friends and relatives of this child and to the general public. I mean when the city councilor in your neck of the woods, Kendrick, Laura had her problems with the car, her automobile back
in jun or twenty twenty three. Okay, everybody knew about it, which is the way it should have been.
Well, like I said, Dan, I mean, she had a position on the council board. You know, a five year old, unless he's a member of a real, real rich family, they're not going to get a lot of coverage. If any.
Well, we'll keep fighting for it, Victor. And I want to tell you how much I appreciate you took the time to call. And I mean that also, thank you, my friend, Thank you very much. You did a good thing. Tonight. Let me go to next to Bob and Cambridge Bob next on nights, I go right ahead, Hi, Dan, how wire you doing fine? Bob? Thanks for calling in. What's your take on this?
Well, thanks for having this subject come up. I recently retired driving for a bus company here and Greater Boston. In this company, would it be okay to, you know, say the name, I'm going to say positive things? Yeah, go ahead, sure, the bus company. I recently retired from what's called Transaction Cooperate Shuttles. This is a company that has been volted several times by the Boston Globe as one of the tough places to work in a Greater area.
Okay, so yeah, I'm with you on that. But what I'm saying is I want to focus on this child and why you're going to tell me the company is a great company. They check their drivers, and I say, I'm glad you gave them a plug. But it's more important we focus on what happened to this child and why the politicians aren't getting the information out about what the driver's record was. This driver should not have been driving a school bus.
Can I can? I can I get into that the driver right, You're absolutely right. I think a lot of the blame here goes onto the cup bus company that this bus driver wasn't dust.
They should, They should probably lose their contract with the City of Boston.
That's at the least and yet probably got this contract. This is where the politician side comes into it. They probably got this contract because there's been a lot of problems in Boston with the school busting in the past few years.
Oh. Absolutely, missing bus. Absolutely, Bob, And that's what that's what I want you to talk about. You worked for a great company. It's like saying, you know, you know, you know, someone's playing for the first place team. They're doing great, but we're talking about this team. This team failed this child and failed this child's family, and now that it's being covered up. Bob, I got a couple more I want to get to as well. Thank you for calling, and thank you to Dan.
Dan. Thanks. But the blame line, the blame, the majority of it lies on the supervision and the office people in that company for letting this guy drive. They should have been with you.
Totally, Bob. I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you much appreciate it. Let me go to Billy in Dorchester. Billy'd like to get you and one more in if I can go ahead.
Billy. Yes, where's Josh Kraft?
I don't know.
Yeah, I would think he'd be looking into this. If he wants to be the mayor of Boston.
Well, I would hope that maybe someone might have said to him. I'm not going to call him ahead of time and say, hey, Josh, we're talking about a subject that you should be I would be hoping that it have somebody, uh his camp BA staff who would be sworn enough to say, hey, they're talking about a great issue. That's the city of that affects the city of Boston on night side talking to people all over the country.
Shortly after this child was killed, that's the name of the company, the contractor. And shortly after this child was killed, they terminated five employees. I believe they checked their credentials and they weren't up to date, or they were avoided or not in effect.
So it took it took it. It took the death of a five year old child for them to clean up their act. That's that's great.
There you go, all who was already hired an attorney on this.
You know, well, again, your question is a good one. Where's Josh Josh Kraft? These are the sort of issues that I think he should be talking about in my opinion, Thanks Thanks Billy, Thanks Man David and Leicester Lester. Excuse me, David, go right ahead. I mispronounced your town in Lester, Massachusetts. Go ahead, Dave.
Hello, Dan, thank you very much. You know I just turned my phone on my radio on, so it sounds like I may have missed, you know, the religious development about the quality of the driver here.
No, there's no late development because they're keeping it all under wraps. They're keeping it all under wraps, and that's what we're talking. I wish you had called earlier because it would have been great to have your perspective. Dave. I'm running out of time, and I'm going to change topics because I'm disappointed that there weren't more people who called on this. To be honest with you, I think
this is an important topic. There's a little kid five years old, dead, dead, never to come back, never to come back because they did not supervise this company, and the company did not supervise its drivers. There's a great article in the Globe today. I wish you would read it. It's by John Hilliard following fatal crash little known of
bps driver. And I hope that tomorrow, if you miss this, you go to Nightside and Demand and listen to the hour because we did have some good callers, not as many as I wanted, but we did have the ones who called were all good. David. I thank you.
So you hand up with me.
Oh no, I've got to go to the newscast, Dave. I'm running. I'm literally out of time. I didn't hang up on you. I'm just saying I wish it called earlier, and I hope we will stay on this story. I promise.
Okay, can I hold.
No, I'm changing topics, David, I'm changing topics. Thank you very much. Here comes the news at ten o'clock