Nightcap - Hour 2: Isiah Thomas unloads on Jordan & why NBA rivalries don't exist anymore

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Yeah, this time for our next segment is called NewsCap and we're gonna be sticking with the Warriors.

Take a listen to the sound. We're gonna be sticking with the Warriors.

Isaiah Thomas was on the Draymond Green podcast and this is what he had to say that Kevin Durant did for the Warriors legacy.

Let's take a listen to it.

Let me make a both stay here, yes, sir, and I hope this don't upset you. Before Kevin Durant arrived in co Open State, y'all were on the verge and then and being remembered as the team that wins seventy three and nine and lost to the Cleveland Cavalier team in the finals. You up three to one and probably one of the biggest collapse in NBA Finals history. Kevin Durant comes that summer and really saves y'all basketball legacy.

Hey, no, nothing but the part that he left out.

It also saved Kd's legacy. If he don't got no championships, we're not looking at him the same. Gial No Gil.

We gotta speak to what we know. We can't speak to what we don't because I can't say man if.

Gil, if Gil was.

Six y nine and had help he need for fifteen, man Gil be going to the Hall, he might have him a couple of We gotta deal with what we know.

And what we know is Draymond said it. They wouldn't have won, They wouldn't have beat Calves. Should never been the cav again.

If if Kat didn't come right that came out of Draymond Green's mouth before.

We didn't need Draymond to tell us that we knew that you get chased down three to one, Gill, you ain't beating.

That team again. Now, Now this is the problem here, though, Okay, Toby, to.

One player, legacy was sacrifice for three other players legacy.

See Kevin Durant going there.

Yeah, he gave him two championships, two finals MVPs, but no one respected him in the media world. While that same move cement hid three players in the Hall of Fame, one as probably the best point guard that ever played. That's gonna get a statue right top seventy five. His sacrifice gave him that right. And that is the reality of it, because without those two championships, we don't know what happens to Golden State because they was laughed at.

The championship was Golden States and all and all they had to do was the liver.

But the problem was his legacy was tainted forever because of it.

Yes, and Steph Curry's plays elevated, elevated, and that that's the only problem I have. It is like, damn you, you sacrifice one to build up three. Yep, But he did it. He felt that's what he needed to do.

But the media can't be mad at these players because y'all put so much. They're putting so much emphasis on rings, so guys feel like, Okay, I'll give me a ring. KT said, Okay, I'll go grab me a ring or two. And then what y'all gonna say. Y'all might not like the manner in which I got him, but I got him. Y'all can't say I'm not a champion. Ye, So I don't begrudge a player because this is what you force those guys to do because you don't evaluate the player

Don't get mad if teams put them together. Look at those Lakers teams. The Lakers had Kareem and Magic and got the number one pick Worthy the year.

That made the year that Magic got drafted. That same year, Kareem won the MVP. So can you tell me you think that's so? What's the likelihood of the team that wins the MVP, the team that wins the championship, the player that they draft somebody from that, it's gonna turn out to be Magic won the finals MVP. You're never going to see that again. You're never going to see a rookie win the finals MVP. Gill, I hope you enjoyed it. I'm old enough to remember when it happened.

Kareem was averaging thirty three and thirteen.

Go look it up. Yeah, Kareem was averaging thirty three and thirteen.

And now you get it.

It's still are You're like, I'd imagine get this when Kareem was being so dominant.

Averaging five blocks that for that series.

Yes, the only the only team that can can actually do some damage like that.

It's okay, see since they have two damn near lottery first round pick. Yes they sneak and.

Getting two good players with the team they have, but he ain't gonna be They're not going to the MVP over shape.

But that what I'm saying is that don't even exist anymore of what's going on back then in the age seventy.

Right, because if you look at look at those Celtics teams. They had Bird top seventy five, Parish top seventy five, McHale top seventy five, all of them together. Okay, they had Tiny Archibald in one of those championship teams top seventy five. They had Dennis Johnson on that team, who was a Finals MVP and a defensive Player of the Year.

On that team, they had Bill.

They had Bill Walton, even though he wasn't the same, he was a Finals MVP and a league MVP and sixth Man.

Of the Year.

Okay, we're gonna go to the Lakers. The Lakers had Kareem I don't need to say anything. They had Magic, I don't need to say anything. They had Bob McAdoo. They had Jamal Wills, so they had James Worthy. So let's not pretend they've always been superteamed. The only difference is team of the general manager. They put those teams together. So I don't care if it's a super team as long as my home. If KD don't go join Golden State or Lebron doesn't go join Miami or this one

Even when you're talking about Bill Russell back then, people don't have Bill Russell's rookie year.

Another rule, even win rookie of your Tom Heysen did.

Yeah, and it was an all saw on the team.

So how good was the team's back then?

Like these guys, That's why I said, like it's it's it's been super teams. It's always going to be super teams.

But when the player says all right, because no one does this, no one, no one pushes this, this this narrative on the owners.

No one goes back and say, hey man, this owner sucks.

This owner's not. They did it with Donald Sterling when they wanted to.

Get rid of them, yes, but before that they're not like, hey, he's he's never he's never resigning any players. He just drafting them, letting them go, drafting them, letting them go. And all other ones were like, I like his bottle, that's money. So when players are sitting these these teams. They're like, well, he's just got pointless stats. He ain't winning over there, and you're like, well he's not paying anybody, right, this man is not anybody, so let me leave.

Oh you can't. You ain't a winner. That was the ultimate super the Celtics in the sixty with the ultimate super team.

They had ten Hall of famers. Yes, they had twelve players on the roster. John Habler, Chack came off the bench. How you gonna gout come off the bench, Dave Cowen's MVP. You had Sam Jones, Casey Jones, Coozy, Tom Hys and Don Nelson, Bill Russell Haler check what damn Bill Sharp?

How many players you won't? Yeah, because they didn't have free agency. They didn't have free agency. Then either, he's just trade so what So what happened is if I don't like you, I'm gonna trade him. I'm gonna trade my asset to the team that you don't like her.

Yeah, I mean when they had when the Lakers had, they had they had Will that had Jared Wes, they had had Elgin Baylor, they had Gail Good.

I mean, look it all the top twenty five.

Go look at the top seventy five and see how many Celtics and Lakers.

You when you go back to the top, when you do top fifty, right the top fifty ship all.

Celtics, Damnars, Celtics.

Thirty nine or forty of them came from big city teams well top ten players of all time. The only person that comes from a small city that broke.

Through is Duncan. Everybody else is a Laker, a Celtics, yep, layer Celticket and you can throw in Philly. But other than that, it's a big city. That's that's what they go off of. This wasn't all it.

Isaiah Thomas, the Big Isaiah told Drake Isaiah still wants an apology from Michael Jordan. I don't believe it's coming, or being called an asshole. In the twenty twenty Docus series The Last Dance, he explained to Dre why his relationship with Jordan is in so Southager.

Let's take a listen to what Isaiah had to say, where's your relationship at today? And is that salvageable? Dude? No, not salvageable.

This dude got on national television, international television and called me an asshole somebody who's been really good to him.

And until he.

Apologizes on international television, we.

Know, conversation. You can't.

You can't apologize and have a private dinner when you didn't embarrass me publicly. If you didn't mean it, say it publicly. Now if you meant it, let us stand.

I'm good with that. Isaiah.

You know you my dog. You don't get that apology. See here's the thing, See Gil, this is this is the great part about being as old as I am.

Isaiah, them didn't do this.

Go back and look what happened when Isaiah when the Detroit Pistons beat the Boston Celtics. See how many bird of Michale and them. See what they did when Isaiah and them beat them, They walked off the court. It ain't nobody say a damn word. No, not what Go back and look it up, chat you see what happened. Isaiah also said, he said what normally would happen when the team would win the finals, the Eastern Conference of Western Conference finals. They would all come into the locker

I just know, I just know when they beat them, and what was that eighty eight? Isaiah then went to the finals three.

They well, they locked, they lost, they lost. No, no, no, they won. Okay, they won eighty nine and ninety. They lost in eighty eight. But I think didn't it because I think because I think the Lakers beat them twice in the fight. Didn't Lakers beat Nah? They Yeah, no they didn't. They beat Philly twice, they beat Boston once, and they beat.

To beat Boston twice. No, yeah, they be They be Boston eighty five in eighty seven to beat the bistiness eighty eight. Yeah that was you go.

Back and look it up, Go back and look it up. So I don't know what the protocol was. I just know what I saw.

So so Isaiah, Isaiah and them didn't start when you lose, oh, just walk off the court and don't congratulate the winning team. Isaiah and them didn't start that.

No, This wasn't This was never about team ship, to be honest, this is about personal, personal relationships, right, this was a personal thing. Whenever a team got beat football basketball, you rarely see the losing team clapping hands with the winner because the winners of celebrating the risks, running around jumping, only friends are touching the other friend. Like if I won or I lost, and my boy just won a championship, our friendship is the reason I'm gonna go say what's up?

Like a congratulations doll? Was the problem with them too. Jordan's friendship to Isaiah when Isaiah won was a handshake. When Isaiah lost, Jordan has a friend to Isaiah was like I want the same respect and in fact that Isaiah walked off, Jordan took it personal.

Yes, it didn't have nothing to do with it. Oh, we shook y'all hands, y'all shook y'all. No, no, no, I shook your hand. You're supposed to shape mind. I don't care. He didn't care about the rest.

Of the team. It was it was a guy that he felt was a friend of his right, and this goes that was the issue.

Look, this goes back to the All Star Game when Jordan believed that Isaiah had something to do with them freezing him out, and then all this we know, they can deny it till the cows come home. Isaiah should have been on that dream team. All this notion, well, he didn't blend and he didn't fit. You said, Isaiah was the second best point guard behind us, behind Magic Johnson.

He was better than John Stocked. I don't care what y'all say. Yeah, and they know it, and they and for all these players now to get up there years later, nobody, it's not about being liked.

Nobody liked Isaiah. Y'all say, y'all took the best players. Y'all make it seem like alls so so so now all this stuff about y'all y'all fighting you so all, y'all buddy buddy hunh, because that's not what you're saying, that's not what you get on TV and say. Now, but now all of a sudden, your buddy buddy Isaiah should have been on that team. Isaiah should have been

I mean, everything is personal when it comes to certain things like that, it is personal. It's not like it's not a team that that the the the the USA

It's purpose. Relationships has nothing to do with talent. Like look at the line as we have, say, the most talented players in the league, some of them the last the last People team four players didn't even start on the NBA team ripping the USA Game. Like come on, man, this is all this is all relationships. So hey, Isaiah, we we we understand, we get it. But I can tell you this. I don't know. I don't know if you watched the last dance, I don't know if you've

That's it.

Ya.

I hope, I hope, I SA like I said, I know Z and but ill don't. Don't don't. Don't you wait for that apology? Kill No he Jeorde is sending on business. George sending on business. He ain't messing with none of y'all. No, he absolutely not.

Uh.

Devin Booker explains the depth of the NBA Ribbery book. Went on JJ Reddick's podcast and had this to say about it. Let's take a listen to the sound.

I said, there's no real ribberies because you know, I say, grassroots basketball. Like a lot of these guys, we've we've known him for a really long time, and I think people just realize that, you know, it's it's not that deep.

At the time, I've been saying that there was no au.

I mean, these guys played, they are the same AAU team, or they've been seeing each other again since they were thirteen.

A lot of them say, where you going to school? At Man? You're going to Kentucky? Me too, You're going to do Yeah? Me too? You going to you going to Kansas? Me too? Yeah.

So there is no bitterness because now I grew up playing against you, probably knowing you since you were twelve.

Yep.

How do I build up a resentment against somebody that I've known since I was twelve.

Played against them, played with them, train with them. Now, now you gotta remember, like like people like uh.

Grover back in the day, there's twenty NBA players in that facility working out right, playing pickup games with each other. Same thing, uh uh in Vegas? Same thing here. These guys are training with each other. So if there is beef, they might have the same trainer and that train is gonna you know, they we're gonna work out together, and you put them all there together. So this this this beef that everyone is taken from way back in the day, that don't exist.

Punches don't cost twenty five dollars, no more. Exactly, it don't. It costs five hundred. It costs ye fifty thousand. That elbow Lebron gave young fella that little elbow. Ooh yeah, he missed one game, three hundred and ninety thousand. That elbow cost him.

Not a punch, not a fight, just it looked like you almost hit him on purpose. Yeah, three hundred n man, Listen, I don't hate nobody for that price.

Nah, he'll no twenty five dollars akasaka, akasack somebody or two, but twenty Look at swing on somebody for twenty five dollars. I mean, think about it if you if you yank somebody at the era, like Michael yank Ram. Besides, how how many game you think they're gonna miss Gil? Now?

Yeah, you yanking some Oh, they gonna give you three to five for you first time offence, and that depending on who you are, that can be a million and a half to him. That's that you bess right. Let it be a star player. You ain't got there. You might get five a teen game.

Listen, Stewart him chasing Lebron. That cost him thirty thousand. Yeah, you can see why his ass acting the month he only loses about thirty thousand dollars. He don't care about that little money. I see, that's a little money. Yeah, but when it costs you three hundred and ninety thousand and half a million, five hundred yeah, yeah a million. Listen. I don't got any brother, I don't got that type of energy. Yeah we hey, hold me back. Were good,

Now I say, you know, it ain't just seeing the guy at the McDonald's All American Game or you see the guy show up at one All Star game.

These guys literally grew.

Up playing against each other for seven years from the time they was like ten or eleven, and then they played one year of college ball against each other, and then they come to the Nvaight yep, And now you want me to dislike this guy that out of shot down his mom? Know my mom, my mom, know his mom, my dad, know his dad. We done ate at the same he ate in the same cafeteria. And so now you want me to because he played for the Celtics, I played for the Lakers.

You want me to dislike him?

Yeah?

That was the rivalry days is over unless it's something that personally happened off the court that nobody knows about.

Other than that. You'll have like like somebody like Patrick Beverley.

Right, he's a rarity, which means this, he loves the game so much that his respect level is. I'm gonna push you for your greatness and I want you to push my defense to his greatness. Right, I'm gonna challenge you every every step of the way.

And when it's over with, you gave me.

Forty Let's shake hands. I'm gonna watch film. I'm gonna see your next game, right right, those those are the guys we have now. The the old raw rob punched you and clothesline you for no reason. The NBA them finds them finds cost too much.

Now for that, even if I don't like you, I'm.

Not gonna express that on the basketball court.

It costs too much.

Right, And you remember this, You remember when a Cam Benson punch Kareem and then Kareem turned around and stocked me and broke his hand.

He mister first witty games.

Yep.

Can you can you imagine somebody just act me doing that, just punching, just turn around and punching somebody in the face.

Me.

Listen, one that's gonna be fifty something.

Games, right, that's one. Two.

You're remember the kid in Timberwolves that punched got so angry he punched the.

Wall, broke his head. Yeah yeah, it looked dumb, like like as a team, as teammates.

No, what's your problem? Yeah, well you've been from missing game like, what's your problem? Though, we don't games?

You remember what you remember when Kerment Washington where you don't remember Kerment Washington hit Rudy Rudy t oh oh he no, he ain't never playing no more. Now you hear somebody like do you hear somebody like that you ain't never playing?

You don not today? Like it's listen, everyone likes the idea.

Like I love when like the older player said, you know, we will do this, we would do that.

No, you wouldn't.

Them check fines will stop you from doing it when you up and you get that slip and it says minus four hundred thousand youna like, oh man, I can't tell the white people about this.

Yeah, no, that stops all behavior right there, them checks.

Well, see, it's it's a little different than football, Gill, because we don't really have you know, hit a whole lot of traveling football teams so like the Raiders and the Ravens and the Steelers. Yeah, you're trying to maname somebody the Raiders in the Bronco. Yeah, because we had rich see like basketball, because y'all played so many games. We had Raid we had in Denver, we had Raider Week.

But it's Raider Week.

Everybody wouldn't get Black Forces what but nah, ain't no Black Forces guild. But Al used to have a saying said the quarterback must go down, and he must go down hard. The Raiders must go down and they must go down hard. Oh, we send in the mess they said. They try to send a message. Were trying to send a message. It starts with the kickoff.

Oh all I'm saying is hey, look here, we're gonna angle the ball turning back this way because I'm trying to put my helmet in his ear hole. Now, I ain't trying to knock him out for the whole year, gial, but I'm trying to get his ass out of that game. Y'all had too much a and y'all hearts for the Raiders. You know what, We've always felt. We've always felt some type of way about the Raiders. But Mike told us the story.

Mike used to be the head coach of the Raiders all fired him after twenty games. You know, if you're on a contract, you get fired, you get your money. Yeah, Al wouldn't pay it. So Al said, sue me. It's gonna cost you more money through lawyer fees than I actually owe you.

So Mike told.

Us the story, All owe me money. You know he won't pay me. So now we taking it personal. Were talking, okay, all like owe us money.

So now we got to take it out of your players ass.

Somebody go, somebody go pay up. Yo, you're gonna y'all saw like bloods and cribs. U y'all don't even know why. Y'all y'all don't even know why. Y'all befit? Hey, hell once like it's a team.

Uh huh.

You do something like I said, if you do something? He man, Hey, man, such is such dirty?

What do you do?

Man that do? Don't worry about We get it. Yeah, Yeah, we're gonna get you or I'm gonna get you. You do something to me. If I can't get you, I'm gonna man shy'all with the hell without the bout hey you got you got did some dirty early in the game. I'm gonna get somebody back. You never gonna tell a man I chief that he hen do nothing. I bet you didn't tell that. Wait, you don't get your ha back.

Get traded during the middle of the season, do y'all?

Not?

Really, I don't have to worry, see y'all. See that's the thing.

So because y'all don't get traded, nor do if you don't. If let's say you, you don't get traded to the Raiders, and if you're a free agent and you don't like the Raiders, you won't sign as a free agent anyway.

I would guess what when I was a freeedgent in Baltimore, I got released from Baltimore, so I was a free agent. I actually visited the Raiders. M h. I just couldn't do it. Yes, yes, I just couldn't do it.

So you guys can have real enemies and not worry about it. We can be beefing today and I can get traded at you tomorrow.

It's got to be really.

Have a real beef because we don't know where we're going to be at next year.

Yeah. Man, we was in we were the old ESPN zone. In Atlanta. Man, it was me Ray.

It was like me Ray and somebody else and it was like four or five Steelers in there. We walked right by the mofos. Ain't say a word, you don't change. We don't like y'all on the field. Off the field, it didn't matter.

Here. What it is always some straight gang members and with it different.

M h nah, it's Gil. You don't understand Gil. The thing about football will make football so unique is that it's literally in. It's in, It's in its purest form. It's about breaking a man's will. It's about intimidation. It's about moving a man against his will. Do you know what that's like, Gil? To move a man? A man says, I got my hand in the dirt and I ain't going nowhere. And I say, the hell you say, you're

I see that. I think they call that show cops. Right then you should pull somebody over and get out of the car. I ain't getting out of the car. And then you know, and they see, you know, he out that car, he hit up out of them. He took the ass for when they get out of that car. But he out.

Because football is the only thing I can do. Whatever I can. I can physically assault you and know nothing happened.

Mmm. That sounds about the same show I'll be watching. Yeah, literally, now they done cleaned it up a lot. Well, you know, you can't you know, take the like the cheap shots and all that other stuff.

But oh man, if we get animal, yeah, that's a different animal. I ain't even gonna, like I said, like a lot of that stuff.

How they be talking and stuff like you couldn't talk like like these guys, like y'all be talking like Gill, Like y'all be talking.

About old boy girl that he he done blew up.

You gotta fight somebody, Gill, you do that. I ain't gonna like Gill. She might be a certain type of way, but once she getting with a dude on the team, let it leave.

It alone, gill leave it alone.

It a it got Hey, I'm telling you, that's a different God's gods in football. They got a different mindset. Man, you got to have a different mindset to play that game.

You're right. I enjoy it, y'all, being in the club with your shirts off, in the club. We used to we used to, we used to give, we used to.

But that was that was the thing, because like, I gotta come to work every day. Ain't no, ain't no a rookie. Nah, ain't no punk going, ain't no punky going on. Look, I understood my responsibility as a rookie. I gotta bring food to the plane. I gotta, you know, I gotta do you know they want to doughnuts and and and hot breakfast sandwiches on Friday. Okay, fine, as long as it wasn't the meaning, I got it.

I got you. You ain't cutting my hair.

I ain't taking your car to get it washed, because I ain't take I take my own car to get it washed. But as far as bringing I had to bring Popeyes, I had to bring KMC. I had to bring donuts. I had to I had to do all that.

But but yeah, see, yeah, yeah, we get Yeah, they gonna kick the ball, and like the fifth row or the up in the bleachers, we gotta go get that before the bus sting. And then you know, I got tired up. I got a hog tied up. Let's just say, uh, Washington Wizards. Wasn't the first time I had to bring guns to the locker room. My roof DoD don't be I mean, I come back. I had to do that a couple of times. You know, you ain't want to just knuckle up. Huh, you ain't want to just knuckle up.

M.

I wasn't.

I ain't.

I ain't get the NBA way. I ain't. I wasn't eating waist yet.

I look, I only got look, I only got like mad man, I said, man, Animals get mad, humans get upset.

I only got upset twice.

And I remember it was my rookie year and I was in the tight end room. I had just moved to the tight end room. And uh, every day I come in there, you know, clans k would take me. I would set my books up and clans would knock it on the floor, and I was like, man, so you know, I you know, I say, hey, man, I ain't come here. I ain't come here for all that. I just remember telling myself, I'm going home, driving home, I say, Lord, my granted didn't send me here for this.

Yil.

He knocked it on the floor, and I think it caught him off guard because he wasn't expecting anything. I put my hands on his throat. I said, if you ever do that, if you ever do that again, you will have to whip me, or I'm gonna have to whip you.

I had no more.

I ain't have no more problems with him. He was ten years and they he was I was like two. I was twenty two. C k probably like thirty. But he knew I was real because my eyes had them turned as red as this cup. Oh yeah, and everybody talking about man man shop, I ain't never seen you like that.

I don't.

I don't bother nobody. I ain't never did that to a rookie. But and then me and Reggie River Man, it was cold, Gill, it was cold that day, and you know we I was like, man, look at Rechie, I don't feel like playing to day. Let that go, bro. So I had the ball, Gill, it was real cold. So we had walked through. Man, the dude came and knocked the ball out of my hand. The ball hit me in my face, I said.

And so I just turned around and said, Brad, I said, didn't I tell you I didn't feel like playing?

And did he walk? And I turned around and went back to the huddle. Is it fake or he hit you? I hit him? Mhm. I turned to walk back to the huddle. That was it. Mine was more scared at tactics are.

Gil if I if I see, if I got to put my hand. Look, I don't like to get I don't like to get like that because I already know how it is. Because he ain't gonna and they're gonna even so one of us, one of us is gonna have to go.

We can't stay on him. We can't be teammates cause I'm gonna fight every day till I win. That sounds about right, or you can just say you are. It's gonna hell no, you ain't having to have no braath. I'm gonna fight. We're gonna fight every day till I win. That's why I just Hey, that's why I came to work every day with a spot. They're like, damn, yop, how you happy every day? Hey?

Bro, I got the best job in the world. I'm out of Glenville. My grandma ain't got to work. I

Now.

Oh no, she she might have been. She might have been, she might have been a certain type of way. But when somebody of them blew up now with you by wealth stake, she got a ten carricter down on the hand.

Don't play with that man about that. Oh no, we're gonna be in that mother laughing on cashit you could laugh. We better be laughing up under your breath. Depending on who she is. At least four of us and already hit it. So we're gonna be kicky here. O. Lord, I'm just saying, check this out. Gil Jaylen Brown liked the wild tweets.

Somebody said if Jaylen Brown was number one on the team, he would average thirty.

And be m v P cap He liked. He liked the tweet, right, he liked it, and it's still there. Well, I mean, I'm sure.

I mean, if someone said, you know, I'm the number one spokesperson in the world, I'm gonna.

Like it too. Okay, I get it. Not realistic, but.

Okay, I get it, But look it probably maybe maybe

I mean they're just basically saying, you know, if he was the number one option that you know, he'll he'll be.

M v P shit. I mean, if if he could feel that way, you want a team they won't have.

I mean, they could say that could be said, so I wouldn't take that as no distri but I just think that was a.

Compliment, and he's just liking a compliment. Okay, so we left, well, okay, we ain't gonna make too much out of here. Doc Rivers believed that Blake Griffin DeAndre Jordan's CP three should have the jersey retired with the Clippers. You agree with Doc, Blake Griffin CP three and DJ DeAndre Jordans.

I mean, they at this moment in time, they are considered the best Clippers ever because the organization itself was basically a forearm team. You know, they never really kept

So DeAndre Jordan two, he got a Defensive Player of the Year three time, All NBA, one time All Star, which is weird, right, one time All Star, but he was top fifteen, wouldn't I wouldn't for the legacy of the Clippers, I would say, Okay, I wouldn't be mad at it.

I wouldn't it wouldn't be one of those jersey. I'm like, well, how he he his jersey retired the legacy there.

So you know, you gotta fill somebody, so she might as well. So obviously that the Clipper that had a whole lot of great players, probably the greatest player probably would be Bob McAdoo because the Clippers, the Buffalo Braves became the Clippers. They actually they were in San Diego first, That's how they got the name Clippers, and then they moved to LA.

So who would you say is the greatest Clipper?

I would probably say Blake Griffin at this point, Blaker between him or CP three, you know, but.

They both about what five time All Stars, five time All NBA, and and I think most of all of CP three's defensive player awards came there. So between them two, flip a con can be.

Mad at it.

Shaq or Rudy Gobert. I never thought he was a great defensive player.

Shaq has never hesitated to criticized Rudy Gobert, and this week, Shaq claimed that he feels Gobert, three time Defensive Player of the Year and current runaway favorite to win his fourth is overrated defender.

I never thought he was a great defender either.

See what it is, There's not a lot of centers that are making him play defense, like he's not doing that issue against yoke Nicolea Jokic because he has to engage. But when he's going against another guy he's seven six. Of course, if you lay it up, he's going to block it. Any truth to what Shaq's saying about Gobert, for sure facts.

I had to ask someone who votes, how do they rate defense, and that's what they said. They said, steals, blocks, defensive rebounding, team defense efficiency, opponent field goal position.

With player as whoever the player is a close to them plus minus when they're on and off the floor.

Now, what the hell does any of that mean? Because of this, Rudy Gobert is a five man now him guarding five men. Let's look at these stats, Jokis, He's only played Yokics one time this year, Jokis had twenty five and ten. Of course he played Winby all four times because he's a rookie. Twenty nine and nine, twelve and ten, seventeen and thirteen, twenty three and ten is what Winby gave him. He played in mbat one time,

And seventeen, and then last game he was a no show.

The guys who can score are busting his ass, which means he's not a great on defender.

Meaning when his guy has the ball.

And he's in the scoring position, giving him work to stop him. Now, what happens on screening rolls and they switch and he.

Switched off of his man. Right, Let's say there's a switch, and then Jokish get the ball and scores on the guard.

That doesn't count towards Rudy okay, Right, So there's a bunch of you. You're getting credit for things that has nothing to do with you personally. Right, you're getting defensive stops, but you're not stopping the guy who's scoring on you. Right, We side blocks and this and that and whoever the closest is to the guy who misses it. It just makes no sense. And I can see why Shaq is saying this. And I always understood that. Like people say, you didn't play great defense, I was great. So I

I didn't want to be hit like that. But stop, my man wasn't taking me off the dribble and stuff like that.

So it's weird how they are rating these guys. Steel's blocks defensive, rebounding, but he can't stop it his individual man one on one. But he's leading in the category of defense.

You have, you have and man as a defensive player who literally stops this guy right right, he's a lockdown defender. We know he's a lockdown defender, but.

How are you how do you get credit as a defender and him who gets credit.

For this this stop right? You know? So the stats, the stats doesn't show that he's a great defensive player like Ben Wallace, right right, Yes, Allis wasn't very good guard and his men when his man was backing them down trying to score undersize he was a light light.

Waist down, but he was great health side defender right right, he was a great health side defender, block shots weak side, And like, how does rebound and counts defense?

It's that that's not a fucking factor, man, Shack, Shack.

Ain't nobody with no great defending on you your big hands, man, you gave everyone you remember the Kim Bate was defensive Player of the years.

Shaq gave thirty seventy seventeen. But I think good.

But first of all, Bill Russell, whoever was a defensive player that you DM, David Robinson, it didn't matter. First of all, ain't no great defensive player gonna stop a great offensive player. Be it the glove, be it Alvin Robertson, all them great defensive guard. They couldn't do anything with Jordan. They couldn't do anything with them scoring guys. David Robinson the year he won MVP, Elijah.

A cook it. I'll tell you I cooked it. Go look it up.

You know you're right. So that's what I'm saying. So for you getting your defensive rating off of right, Let's say I if Jokish want to be a great.

Defensive player and he plays against Rudy every day. Obviously, Rudy King score. Right.

If Rudy King score, Jokis becomes the best defensive player of the year because he's guarding a dude who don't shoot the ball.

Right.

So with all these switches and switching going on, and we get to switch everything, how do you tell who's.

Actually counting for defense? Defensive rebound?

A guy who averaging fit fourteen rebounds and he's leading in he's leading in defensive rating. That's fucking rebound. That's a rebound that has nothing to do with stopping somebody. I was third in steals, right, they credit.

Me for no defense.

Hey, I's on the defensive team, Larry Hughes's first team defense.

Gilbert didn't get no defensive points, right. I was third

I'm just trying to figure out how how Tim duncan be All defense fifteen times they don't win the Defensive Player of the Year.

That's what I said. It's it's you can't be.

You can't be a fifteen time All defensive player, not one time when Defensive Player of the Year but that's what I'm saying.

It's like, what but but you when you read that, when you read what they're saying, steels, block, defensive rebounds, right, team defense efficiency. So now it's team defense. So that means you need more than one fucking player on the team. Say, help you guard somebody? Right, then you got opponent field goal percentage with player as.

The closest defender.

Yeah.

So if I listen, listen, look this hottest looks. Let's say, uh, you get beat defensively, right, Yes, your man blow by you and you missed the layup. I'm the nearest dude near the play right, you will get credit for me. I don't even have to be looking.

I get the rating for it because I'm the closest to that misshot.

Wow, So should I just.

Want to guard like I want to guard Ben Simmons then and say, Ben, just keep shooting. I'm just saying, right next to your brother, I'm become the best defensive player of the year.

With defensive player to you yourself there. Steph Kurr says he's considering a career in politics after retiring from the NBA. During the Parents on CBS Morning to promote his new children's book, and I Am Extraordinary. Steph gave insight into his plans after ending his current career May Steff saying would ask if he would ever expect to see him make a run for the over office. I have an interest in leveraging every part of my influence for good in the any and and the and the way that

I mean, I ain't mad at him either. You know, still, dude, he's a he's he's a good dude. He has a good heart. So you know, uh, you know, if he is in politics, he's gonna he's gonna try to do right by the people.

Gil there's a difference between sports journalists and I guess the investigatives and news journalists. All I'm saying is, make sure your house is in order. Now, If if, if the only thing that's gonna come up is that you didn't want them to build a low income housing next to your residency, You're gonna be fine. They're gonna find out everything, h as Fanny willis. All you gotta do is go down there, and look at the DA that's in Atlanta. They brought these charges against President Trump.

Uh huh. Nobody knew anything about what was going on down there until she did that. So all I'm saying is, hey, I believe in Steap. I believe he's a model citizen. But that's just what we see. They gonna go hunting, they gonna go fishing, and that's the politician is a dirty game. Man. The hell yeah, they trying to listen, they trying to discredit you with your past.

But and hey, against us, it's gonna work. Yeah, against them, they get to keep it down. Only matter, It don't matter what, It don't matter about that because I know a situation they made President Obama.

Dis viow Reverend Wright mm hmm. Couldn't go to the church no more, couldn't be couldn't be a mentor couldn't be anything. Now we see what's going on now mm hm. David, dude, it don't even matter. So understand, our transgressions are like shackles. Their transgressions are like cobwebs. You brush cobwebs aside, you brush them off, you shackles. You're held more accountable, ruthful.

You're gonna get my vote, but we already gonna know you're gonna be on the golf course with his pops. Uh.

It's time for our last topic of the day. Gil is called Q and a double oh splash. Uncle gil My son loves to show. This is his favorite night to watch. He's twelve years old and ask if you guys would shout him out. He's an Honor roll student and he's going for all aids. All right, Hey, bro, thanks for watching. I appreciate hope of your dad covet years when we talk about the real, real, real stuff

Kimper Norwood Junior. I don't know how his son is up at night at eleven thirty being on the honor road. Tell him to take his little ass to sleep. He's your favorite. So this is the late one. He might be home school, okay, because another one, you know, y'all come on about seven thirty. Kimper Norwood Jr. Ask Gil, do you believe that Luca can help the Maths get

Matters as long as the organization is really trying to put pieces around them. So you know, once once Luca hits about twenty this is about twenty five right now. Yeah, within the next two years, we can really see if they're trying to make moves to get a championship.

We got here, Jose the hayesus So, Gil, you guys taking your lead your squad, Brian Russ or rookie d Rose Rolls was what the athleticism, This is what I think you can feel come and say this. Russ and d Rose are the two most athletic point guards that we've ever seen. Now Josh is coming into that mix too, Jo Joh, but man, d Rose had bounced.

They had that they like they they had the speed and that explosion. I'm always go with the bigger one, right, I'm always going with the six four sixty five guy who can get out. So I'm gonna go with Russ just because his the tangibles, right, everything he brings, the energy, he brings, like, I love me some d Rose.

I mean you know what I mean. The way he played d Road was special man. Yeah, it wasn't even prime d Roll.

It was just young d row z Row. Yeah, he didn't get a chance to get to prime because he was injured. Yeah, it was. It was yet So I got to see where Russ. So I'm gonna take the triple double Russ over, you know, the the m v P d Ros and knowing that we don't know what d Rose would have looked like a healthy twenty five, twenty six, twenty.

Seven, where you're gonna put Joh in that mix? Jah right now is I'll have him third, Right, he's third.

Uh.

He hasn't had that that that d Rose MVP year, right, he hasn't. He hasn't got to that level. But the things he has done, it's hard to say. He's not right there, He's he's knocking on the door. He's knocking to the door right now. I never saw d Rose play, didn't see Russ play in his prime. But to watch Jah.

If those guys were any more athletic than Jah, good god abody. Yeah, because this dude here, the way he can contort his body. Now d Rose could do that.

Now, d rot Russ. That's not Russ. Russ just explosive straight ahead.

But d Rose would the up and under the dipsy dude, man, joh man, he's like he's just suspended it there.

Yeah.

When he.

We really we really sit, they.

Gonna think it's photo shot about ten to fifteen years when he went to block that shot and all this was on the backboard, yeah, or when he brought Torrian Prince, when he brought with like with the Lakers, with we playing the Lakers, when he.

Blocked that, yeah, yeah, that that when they blow that up and if that ain't on his wall, he needs to go ahead and get that on this wall. That that that that that that is a beautiful time capsule shot right there.

Greg King said, Gil, would you ever coach an NBA team if the opportunity presents itself.

How do you motivate watch to go to work up the coach a team if I have full control of who I can draft, who I put on my on my bench and all that, and my motivational speech will sound the same every goddamn day. Who in here want to be a max player when they raised out, Well, goddamn, let's train like one. Okay, the max players train like max players.

Don't tell me you want to be a max player, but you training like a six man, right. I want you to train like Kobe Bryant, like Steph Curry. I want you to train like that. And if you do, that's as a coach, that's one. I want to see how many max players I can push out.

So when you when they hit the free agency, I'm the guy. You're coming from max players, right, you know, because you're not gonna tell me you want to be a max player, but you at the club every night, right, don't don't beat Do not be working out three times a day. You're grunning the beach. You're eating your salad in the summer.

To come to training camp and get ready for the season, and then come to the season, work out one time and be at the strip club all day because you're away from your your wife.

Don't don't, don't give me the worst of you. See, that's what the NBA is.

See, they at home with the family in the summer, so they can't do all of this ship they're trying to do. Then come to the to the season, and that's when they want to consume.

The most alcohol.

They want to stay up the ladies, they want to party because they're on the road. Now, we're gonna flip this around. We're not gonna You're not gonna do.

That on this watch. This is the job now, right you know, So that those are the talks I'm gonna have, Like, do you really want to be one of the greats?

If you just come in here, get in the church, because I'm gonna treat you just like that.

If you want to be a Kobe Bryan type, we're

Right.

If you just want to come get a check it out, I'm gonna treat you like that too. I'm not gonna expect nothing from you. Right you come in, Hey, if you hit your first two shots and keep you in. If not, Hey, going on down there where the rest of you drunk motherfuckers be have fun. I ain't gonna be finey and you come in late, I'm not gonna find you. I'm not even gonna do nothing. Hey, you

I'm gonna help them. Don't complain about the role. Don't complain about the results you didn't get because the work you didn't put in. And that's what man row. Come on now, Yeah, Kember, know what Junior said. Oh, my goal in life is to have a one on one conversation with you. What do you think that conversation would be?

Like?

You are my role model. I love watch Than every Monday and Tuesday on First Take. It all depends on what you're trying to, what you're trying to do, what you're trying to become in life.

I can just.

I have a general good idea when I start to talk to someone how serious they are about what they want to become, because it becomes a very apparent because when people say, well, chef man, I want to get in chair I want to train, but I got to eat my fried chip Man. You know, I got to have my man a shop man come up bad. You know, I gotta get my burgers. I gotta get my pizza.

I gotta do it. Okay, next question, I'm not gonna. I don't come.

I don't when my time because you're telling me all the things that you don't want to get up, give up, but you're telling me you want to be great.

There are no shortcust of greatness. There are only sacrifices to be That's it.

And so by telling me what you what you don't want to do, I need you to come in and says, Okay, what do I need to do to be able to accomplish X, Y and Z.

Nobody wants to sacrifice. I think that's I think that's usually everyone's achilles heel. They don't want to sacrifice for what they want.

That becomes like you, you really have to understand that to get to get to another place, you got to do different things.

Yes, to get what you never have, you've got to do what you've never done. I mean, I just do.

I just don't get people that think that it's like this this stuff is easy, like people just roll out of bed and become great.

No, there's a price because we make it seem easy. Yes, that's a problem.

We make it seem easy because they can't see everything we're doing. They just see the results, and the results look easy. But see, that's what discipline is. It requires you to do your best when no one is watching. See if all you see, all you see is what I do on the field, but you didn't see what I did. Why when you couldn't see? But I couldn't fool the man.

In the mirror.

I know how many times I was on that track. I know how much weight I lifted, I know how I ate, So I couldn't get mad if things didn't go my way because I didn't do the necessary work that it was required to get to what I had done. So there's only one way to do it. You got to do what others can't or won't, and sometimes you got to do both. It's simple, alto Lainty Ray saying, since it's eleven thirty pms, essentil it's sadistic and I'll be asleep by the time you read this.

I'm pre ask you my questions.

Would you consider would you consider to be a failure you experienced and what did you learn from it? No, I just considered delayed success. I didn't do what I needed to do in high school. But the best thing that happened was because I bulgized in high school.

And I went to Savannah State. I met a lifelong friend.

I met instructors and professors and doctors that sincerely and genuinely carried about Shannon Sharp and probably two of my favorite I mean I had a bunch, I mean probably four or five was Haynes Walton and Norman Elmore. And I just remember them always telling me, Sains, you're going to be our best representative of Savannah State. H And I want you to understand that, but I want you to wear it like a badge of honor. And I

Now it was raining. It was just it was two instances.

One it was raining, and you know, you get a professor, you give it, you know, you give him ten minutes and he come and he always had these stacks of books stacked up this hinde and they sliding all over the place.

And I just remember you saying, he said, you know what, I almost didn't come. It was like four or five of a stage.

Everybody else was gone, he said, you know what, I almost didn't come today, he said, but I thought somebody would want to learn something. Mm hmm, man, I would hate man. I loved going to that man's class. I loved going to doctor Walton's class. I had a professor, that Gay Hewett. She was amazing. Doctor Macklamore. Doctor Maclamore and doctor Green were my remedial reading and English teachers. Because when I got to Savannah State, I was in

We know what those mean.

Yeah, I was in there, all of them. I had English, reading, in math and graduated college in four years and two months. Had I not been in those classes out of graduated with no summer school, but I wasn't ashamed a lot of my teammates were ashamed to go in there because they were trailers and everybody knew what those classes were. Man, I go in there, have ay, have my stars, jeans on, my eyes on our clue. Old Friday had me a briefcase, had a jacket on, because I was like, I'm gonna be something.

Y'all can't make y'all came. Y'all can't make me.

I take sole responsibility for my failures for putting myself in a situation, so y'all can't make me feel bad.

I know I ain't done.

Man.

I walked right up in that thing. Hey, Gil, I had me a breef iron.

I had my shirt iron night before, on Thursday night, Iron, my shirt had a collar shirt on. Give me a jacket, get my creech half slacks, go right up in there with a briefcase because I know I was gonna be something.

Yes, okay, yeah, I ain't going to class on training. I'm going to class.

I'm going, Gill, you know why I'm going to class where you think them bangs were.

They weren't in their dorm. They ain't class. Yeah, see listen, I was trying. I stayed to the gym. I say, in the gym. I went to one class my freshman year. I went to one as the first day to see what was in there, and then I had and then I had my second year same thing. One class.

That was it.

Outside in the front of the class. I'm still legal a freshman.

God, Gil you you father from graduating? Then when you went to school? Oh no, no, fact, no, yeah, I wasn't listening. I went there for basketball.

That's it. The program I seen them on they on TV, and this it is. I used the television to get drafted. People like, yeah, you're gonna go back to get your degree.

For what I got?

Ships I need?

Yeah, I don't need. Noh, somebody saying you have you had a briefcase not a book band. Now I had a briefcase of one handed books and the other.

I was like, I was dealing it.

Uh.

Four kt as is the altitude playing in Denver as bad as people? Yeah, you gotta get used to it. There's a reason why people train the altitude they go to. Why do you think the uh, the Olympic training facility is in Colorado Springs.

They wouldn't put it there if they were if it didn't benefit you.

Most people trained in altitude, they go to flag Staff, they go to a Colorado springs. I had the ten I had to tend in my house Hyperbary Schamer. Yes, absolutely so in absolutely and absolutely. But Big Mike said, what's up a girl questionnaire? Which record you think would be broken?

First?

A Curry three point record? He said, Lebron's forty thousand point a Curry three point record.

Do you understand how many? How how low? Forty thousand? That record stood for almost forty years?

Forty Curry's three point d the Curry's three point record because they shoot more of them, they're shooting more and he started off slow.

Yes, Ingle injury. So there's there's a get there's there's space to get that that that that record, because there are a lot of that are ahead of the pace. Yeah.

For for what current was boxers go to Big Bear up here in northern California. So yeah, every since basically since Mexico City in sixty eight, the Olympics, I mean, the thing aunt the thing they are up there. A lot of records fail. The Kenyon they trained in the Riff Valley. There's a reason, that's why they went all the damn time.

Yep.

It helped to have them labs up to do with it.

John mary Nella said, give, if you could compare your game to anyone curly in the league, who would it be and why?

Uh? It was early James Harden mixed with Dan Right, I was very good at I mean, like shifting guys and understanding human behavior, so getting to the free throw line, getting.

But I was more.

I was more all around than James us right. I posted up. You know, I had one on one mid post shot without dribbling. I knew how to flare, I knew how to cut, play very well without the ball.

And with Dame.

I possessed knowing how to slow the game down while I was moving fast, so you know, hitting shots at the end of the game, that's that's that's mental training, where being clutched clutch is more of understanding why everything is going fast.

You can slow it all day down, and that's what I was very good at. But for the most part I was. I was a mixed between the two, but they over exceeded where I was.

I mean, but it was.

Aaron Owen says, I remember when a fan asked Clay Johnson the autograph for Toaster. What's the weirdest item of fan requested to be signed up and gil.

Uh a baby's diaper while the baby still had it on. Damn yeah hand. In hindsight, it was a new die. It was you know, boom.

And then I realized that, yeah, he gonna Yeah, You're gonna use the restroom at some point, and I'm pretty sure you're not gonna keep that.

Yeah, yeah, you're probably right. Uh man, you know what people be talking about. Take off a shoe. Try to take off a shoe and give me decided that, Like, for real, you really think i'mbout to side your.

Shoe take it off?

Yeah?

I don't.

I don't.

I don't feel comfortable signing to sign my arm or something like that. Come on, man, get a piece of paper or something.

Little kids, because that's a little come on, that's a little kid thing.

Man.

I'm never gonna watch his arm again. I'm trying to think, what's the weirdest thing I've.

I think it's weird when people want you to I'm a football player, want you to sign a baseball Who the hell do I look like Barry Bars? I mean, would you want Baron Bards to side of football. That's all they have at the time. Sometimes that's all they happen.

They just want the autogram because they probably never gonna see again.

You're probably right, Yill, You're probably right. Well, that's our time for tonight.

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. I'm your favorite, Uh Shannon Shark, he's your favorite. Number zero Arizona Wildcat legend. Yeah, y'all don't know about these right here, they'll do you uh and no, have mercy, Andre Agassiz, and you didn't get a mask. You didn't get a don't be mad. They sure do, Sure do. I'm mad. I got one to rock and one to stop. But that's not to hear ninety seven is right? Huh? No here last ninety seven? No byo. Those are like

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