Nightcap - Hour 1: Monica McNutt on her viral exchange with Stephen A. Smith on First Take

The volume. The eighty two game preseason is in the books, and it is finally time for the real season. Don't miss out on any NBA playoff action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From the play in tournament through the finals. Draft Kings Sportsbook as you covered with same game parlays, live betting, ods, boost and much more. Download the Draft Kings Sportsbook app. Use code Shannon. New customers can bear five dollars and get

The Crown is yours.

Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or in West Virginia visit one eight hundred gambler dot net. In New York call eight seven seven eight hop and wired text hope and y four six seven three six nine. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling called eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothell, Casino w and Resorting Kansas twenty one and over age varies

The playoffs are upun us the best place to watch right there in person. Game Time is an authorized ticket marketplace for playoff basketball, which makes getting playoff tickets even easier and faster. Prices on game time app actually go down closer it gets to tip off with killer last minute deals, all in prices views from your seat, the lords price guarantee game time. Take the guests work out of buying tickets, save even more when you choose a

Dollars off your first purchase. Terms apply again.

Creat an account, redeem code nightcap nigt CAAP for twenty dollars off. Download game Time today, last minute tickets lowers price guaranteed. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and boy, do we have a special show for you tonight. It's an episode, another episode of Nightcap. I am your favorite on Shunning sharp bottom left. He's your favorite number eighty five. He's a route runner extraordinary. He's a single Ring of Fame honoree.

Women, young women, ball men. Y'all see her.

Monica McNutt, thank you for joining us for another episode. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Please make sure you hit that light button. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Thank you guys for selling out Shade by Laportier. We have it back in stop. We're gonna fill the back orders first and then we're gonna pin the chat at the top, and then guys, you'll be able to order without all the delay. So thank

Show.

But as I said before, we're joined by Monica McNutt. Please go follow her on a social media McNutt Monica. I guess somebody told Monica McNutt you can pay one

There we go, There we go. I like that last name. Thanks for having me.

No, thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Monica joining us. Hopefully not the last time, Monica. We had this A very healthy that's the term I'd like to use. Our health they discussion this morning, you said, Shannon, I knew I was in trouble because you normally called me when you called me Shannon, here we go, Shannon Stevin, Ay, this deserves a more nuanced conversation. You know how television work. You got the top of the hour, you got the

Before y'all go being at we all have a better knowledge of the game of basketball, whether it be NBA or w NBA. As someone on the outside looking in that was able to watch y'all this morning, I want to tell you that was peak elite sports journalism. As far as conversation is concerned, They're going to be so many different opinions.

Where the wrong?

Where the right?

Monica?

I didn't know you could cook. I ain't know you was a chef. Honey, you was cooking this morning. You hear me, you was cooking. You had your points. But the passion, yes, the passion and authenticity Monica that you spoke with today, well, I'm talking about man bruh. I was on the edge of my seat had you made your points and then Monica, you and Stephen they going back and forth, and I'm sitting on the edge of my seat, like, man, what is going on? That was Listen.

Because that was great. That was fabulous.

I'm just saying, like I'm not saying it because you on the goddamn show tonight, because you see I'm cursing that sh That shit was fucking fabulous.

That was a good TV. Well.

The thing is that Oho, that when you do television, and Monica attested this, you never know what you're gonna get because you have so many you have sometimes two, three, maybe even four people, and it's an opinion based show. Yeah, Monica had her opinion, I had mine, Steve and they had had his, And so Monica says a topic like this deserves a more nuanced conversation that we don't have to worry about getting into a break. So if Monica needs to talk fifteen minutes straight, we can allow Monica

Well, so I'm gonna take y'all. Two things happened to me.

I actually went to the Liberty game on Friday, and this episode sort of speaks to the growth of the game.

My fiancee, I know, we just take the train home because it's easiest. We're in New York and there are a couple of white boys. One of them went to Auburn, his brother went to University Missouri. His girlfriend was with them, another another young white man. They're playing their late twenties.

One of the might have been in the early twenties, and it was a black woman that clearly just left the Liberty game.

That's not across from them, and they just spark up, y'all.

This spontaneous conversation about women's basketball.

And yes, it was about this particular.

Play, and it was a little bit about the sky and Angel, and it was kaitlynar It was about the Liberty And I'm looking at my fiance like this is crazy, Like we're just on a train and books that you might think are watching the WNBA pop into this converse. They't both engaged, and they started talking about Arburn and the Tuskegion. I was peak ear hustling for the record, but they were.

But I say that to say and I get that we are at a.

Special place when it comes to women's basketball and the growth of.

The game and all of the eyeballs.

I think what I was frustrated by in our conversation earlier is that we can hold more than one truth, y'all. Like the idea of some players being jealous, yes, step that probably exists. But I think in Caitlyn's debut, since or since she has made her debut, there's been a large and loud family or push. Yes, that is Caitlyn versus the way, and that is unfair to me. Yeah jealous, sure, I mean would you be ye if somebody got twenty money you know whatever before your step footing the pros right.

I just need us all to do a better job of holding room for multiple truth.

Jordan has a rookie Joe right, Lebron as a rookie like Wemby as a rookie. When you look at guys that have gone on to be great, I'm sure they would not say their rookie years were Kate walks. Now in the case of Lebron and if we use Wemby's this year, they have physically dominant and powerful statues, and so maybe that has allowed them to skirt some of her. Kaelin is the guard coming from college, she got get

Because I know that's gonna be a hot topic tomorrow, and so my thing is it doesn't have to be either or it can be.

But the prevailing idea that it's the W versus Kaitlyn, and that these women don't understand the power of the eyeballs and the audience that she's helped grow the league too.

That's just unfair and that's what bothers me.

Go ahead, O Joe, listen again.

From the outside looking in, I have come to enjoy Washington WNBA now as a new fan. I had the opportunity Monica to see the Dream play the Wings. I mean yeah, yeah, Dallas, right, Dallas Wings and uh in Atlanta maybe two or three weeks ago, and I have never been in an atmosphere like that, from the game to the enthusiasm with the crowd, the DJ, everything was jumping from first quarter the fourth quarter.

The halftime show was phenomenal as well.

So the engagement and the experience that I had at that w NBA game when the Dream played the Wings, that's what I'm expecting.

Now.

I have a chart with the Missus where we're starting on the East coast and we're working our way up to the West coast.

I'm starting with I'm going to another Dream game.

Then I'm gonna make my way to Dallas, and from Dallas, I'm going to Chicago to see the sky from the sky that I'm going to La to see the Sparks and then we're going to Phoenix, and then we're gonna We're gonna finish off in Vegas.

Okay.

Now, I'm hoping based on the experience I had in Atlanta and that in that stadium, I'm hoping the rest of the atmospheres are like that too. Obviously, the game of basketball is good. I've come to learn all the players. Now, I have a bunch of jerseys that I that I

Think I think after this year.

They will almost I'm not saying they're gonna be able to compete with the NBA, they will almost. From an exciting standpoint, what's going to happen next?

Okay, let me ask you this, because this is where all turned the shining for me this morning. Give you a hypothetical.

Take it back to your playing days right, Okay, okay, okay, boom this new corner. He he all this big fact you about the.

Square up with him? Ochoue, what are you.

Gonna do with a squaring up against a crosses from somebody who was supposed to be all this and all that for the future of the league.

Oh, he's finna get his work, right, So, honey, he's gonna get his work.

You hear me.

He's gonna get this work when you stay there.

So yeah, All of a sudden, something in the media have allowed this idea of roll off the yellow brick, rolled off the red carpet because this is your cash cow. Why that idea has caught so much steam.

Blows my moment.

Okay, we're talking about competition, which is a beautiful thing that y'all both have made millions.

I'm let me ask your question, Joe. To Monica's point, that's a hot shot corner. He's the top five pick. Let's just say for the sake of argument, he's standing there, you're gonna roll up in the back of his legs.

Oh, I see see, I see where hes going.

No, don't see what I'm saying. Just like you fired off with monicat needs you to fire off. Would you roll up in the.

Back trying to use my technique? No, we're trying to die, you know.

Yeah, you know you know I don't. I'm not. I don't take no chief shots, you know that. So I'm stay.

With Shannon's example because now you're back to Shannon because you get on my nurse.

Now, O Joe, you're not gonna do that.

And tell me what percent of the league you probably think would probably.

Agree with you.

As far as not doing that.

Yeah, no, no, nothing dirty.

Probably probably about ninety eight percent because there's there's a two percent chance that's something that really don't give to you know what, and they'll do it.

Okay, So I hate math.

In fact, my parents said last time, he calls me a mathematician all the time. But lets grow with me for a second. Got eleven games, Yeah, we got one incident. I think that's a little less than ten percent of the events so far in.

Which since happened to have a conversation.

So I just I just want us to hear out that competing because you have been deemed the next stuff is a part of competition, man or women. Right, we all agreed that Kennedy Carter had a bad look. We all agreed that look for her, and.

I'm not make an excuse for that.

I think the thing is also Monica, who did the look, given her track record, and who the look happened to? Oh cho, I used the argument this morning Trent Green got hit in the pocket in his knee, and they didn't train the rules. Eleven years later, eight years, nine years later, Tom Brady got hit in the knee.

Whether they do to the rules about hitting the quarterback below the waist ojo, they changed the rule right away.

So I think Monica, to your point, had it not been had it been someone else that doesn't have the track record of miss Carter, and if it wasn't on the person who she did that to, I agree with you. I don't believe the outcry would have been what it was, but it was because of who it was.

And I'm gonna actually add this, I think the fact that it wasn't called a flagrant on spot is probably what helped elevate this conversation.

Baciating across the NBA and w you know what I mean.

So literally we get to call this morning that we're gonna leave the show with this and I'm like, this is the most non story story I.

Think we've ever let a show with because to me, it's just not that big of a deal.

Hey, that's not what Twitter, that's not what we're treated.

That is saying. And you know how t Maniga, you've been in TV long enough.

You know what what leads man all y'all do is talk about the cowboys. The cowboys. People want to talk about the Cowboys. People want to talk about Caitlin Clark. All of a sudden, to a large a larger percent want to talk about the w NBA, which is good.

What is bad is that they're not talking about.

The WNB and a positive when you're looking at it in this situation and I get what, I get what you're saying. You're like, yeah, this's a nuanced conversation, and two things can be true.

People want to compete. This was an isolated incident.

There's not a whole lot of incidents where people are clotheslining Clayland Clark, tripping or shoving or and doing petty things of that nature.

So let's look at this. This is what it was. This happened.

Well, let me ask you a questions, tell you and I we talked about it like, damn, we're a teammates. Y'all saw the girl get clocked in the back like that, Oh Joe, you know in football you do something to one I got especially one of our main guys. Oh we got this. We got to get your back, Monica. But we gotta make it look like it's a part of football, okay.

Right, And I think making it look like a part of the game is a huge thing. But I'm gonna tell y'all story.

In college, we played Louisville and we actually got the rule change in women's college basketball because Louisville used to take a lot around the.

Court, around the whole court.

We were going up in your home stadium, in your home.

They did it everywhere. They did it at Georgetown in McDonald Arena. We were on our side. Woman up. I'm not gonna name any of my teammates because I still love them dearly.

Somebody tripped up somebody from Louisville and a brawling suit.

We made it.

We make it the Sports Center in a little done like now, Monica, it's.

Not a fighter. Do you know what I did in that moment?

You scrap now, I grabbed the basketball and said, y'all stop got.

Y'all hang to you.

What I'm saying to you is, if your DNA is not I'm a gooing, I'm enforced. I'm finish scrap. That's not a switch that you can just turn over if I have. If I was on the baseline and we were I was actually in the tussle that I had the fight or fight right, but I was.

Shooting a jump shot. I looked down they was scrapping, and I was like, oh no, we can't do this right.

And this idea that the personality is on the fever squad on turning to enforce her.

It's unfair to who they are.

They go pick their teammate off the ground, they grab her, they encourage her to calm down and take a deep breath. We're not in there practice. I don't think that this is Oh they must not love her. I think we might be reading a little bit too deep playing. And y'all, they've won two games out of the eleven they played. They got some real things worry about in terms of trying to win versus.

Trying to play. But let me ask you a question.

Could it be a situation if they were had a better winning record. It's like, man, y'all talking about this team. Y'all talking about this person and she's shooting forty percent. They only won two games, y'all talking about it like she's stewing. Y'all talking about them like they the Connecticut Son or the Aces or somebody.

Come on, now, do as as women? Do you, guys?

Because I know, look, y'all keep talking about this and they ain't done anything. Do y'all do you hear that and get fed up? Like, hold on, bro, there are other people out there playing the game too. Now come on now.

I know that this is not journalism one on one, oh show, but I'm gonna slip it right back to you. U. You were competing at a high level. If somebody was appointed next up and their team was not, if the needle was moving in the W column and you felt like you were better than and then it had earned more accolades and attention, then what.

How was your one response?

I'm trying to me anybody, anybody that had a name, I'm trying to embarrass them because I'm trying to elevate my name. Yeah that's the way, that's the way I that's the way I That's the way I went about it, Monica, is that I wasn't gonna do now. All I needed to know, and I told can attest to this. All I needed to know.

Are we playing snap the whistle or snapped the after the whistle? I just know.

I so I just need to get in the right frame of mind how we gonna do it, because if we're being nasty, I just need to know at the start of the game.

Okay, we're gonna be some nasty more folds for four quarters. I'm down.

Yeah, I mean, listen, even even though even though the Fever have only won two games, we have to we have to understand. Uh, the Cowboys they haven't won what thirty some years, they still moved the needle. The Lakers they haven't won well, I mean I'm not I'm not sure if we count.

There's an astra behind that. But again, the Lakers, they moved the needle.

The Yankee they haven't won the World Series, I'm not sure and how long, but they moved the needle. Caitlyn Clark, she moves the needle. Angel Reese, she moves the needle. I mean that just that, just the makeup of it, and that's the way it will always be going to be like that for a long time. I wish people would get comfortable with that and that that's the way it's gonna be. And you created, you created a different demographic, a different set of eyes, and and they're going to

I have no idea, I have no clue.

So oh tra I love that.

And this is where I continue to say more than one thing can be true. They have absolutely moved the needle. And I think Caitlin Clark and Andrews both are going to be all stars and superstars in this league. They are both rookies, right and so I quite frankly the idea that she would see less than true compet Again, obviously we are excluding non basketball and dirty plays. It's not only disrespectful to the rest of the league, but

You're trying to go through yourself.

And so for me, the fact that we've lost that at the root of this thing, we are talking about competition and women competing at a high level. That is the part that bothers me the most. And then there's twenty eight years of this league being established and in the last five the needle has moved, the charter thing has been in motion. You got to shout out Mark Davis, the Vegas owner, Joe and Clara Ci the liberty owners, like people that have really helped to put the pressure

And so I just encourage all the new faults like you, Oh Joe, come on in, Come on in and watch it.

Come one, come on.

You, but take some notes. Well you start bumping them gums, That's all I asked.

So let me because when I look at Kaitlyn Clark and people look at her and they're like, well, what about all that trash talking she was doing in college.

What about all the stuff that she was shoving people down in college?

They saw that, And so now her talking trash in college might intimidate some folks.

You come to the w these are grown women.

These women got kids, These women twenty five day, twenty eight, they're thirty years of age.

They don't care.

Hey like and like I said, Monica, you oh you got the name. If I tear you up on the court, they're gonna be talking about me.

You know what, I think, there's a there's a learning curve as a rookie. My rookie year, I was talking trash in college. My rookie year in the NFL, I ain't say nothing't I didn't say nothing. I ain't even talk to the media until I got acclimated to the game. I understood the game, and the game started to slow down, slow down for me. So when your two came and I started talking, once I figured it out it was a rap. I'm sure at some point Angelice already talking

Oh Joe, you spot your spot on right.

And but I think part of what has made this such a hot topic is that when a goat like Ryl Stoops, who was a multi time gold medalist, a four time w NBA champ, and unteen time w NBA all started a woman I have her first, the first woman to have a signature shoe for Nike. When she said there was a curve, it was she was hated. When Diana ta Rossi said yeah, the curve at the Women Final.

Four, she was hating.

And I think for the new fans, I get it, y'all rolling with y'all girl, you protected whatever, whatever.

But that wasn't hey.

That was people that have came here and watched this league. Those were truths, and that is okay. That's part of all of our journeys.

You're gonna hit a curve at some point, especially for a guard.

See people look at I say, bro y'all expecting her to be Cannas Parker when she comes out as rookie of the whin Rookie of.

The Year and MVP.

Cannas is six ' four, Caitlyn Clark might be what six foot Monka, So you're asking a guard to do something that is dominant big in college, Hey, Candas Parker was legit. She could rebound, got you double digit rebounds where she was a nineteen ten, she was a defensive Player of the Year. She was tremendous. And I think everybody you look at Caitlyn, she led the nation in scoring at about thirty two points a game, led the

You're nothing embarrassed me. You're nothing to have me on Sports Center.

Especially now, and I know EFP really covering the WNBA.

Are you.

I'm nothing to be your highlight package. It ain't gonna happen, Monica, I'm sorry, it's not I when.

It's comments, they should come back up and I'm not around.

I just want you to keep that same energy because and to me, that is beautiful. That is the point of competition and it should be celebrated.

Yeah, Angrew Revees had some comments today. Take a listen to the sound what Angel Reaves had to say today.

It all started from the National Championship game. And I've been dealing with this for two years now and understanding like, yeah, negative things have probably been said about me, but honestly, I'll take that because look where women's basketball is. People are talking about women's basketball. You never think that we talking about women's basketball. People are pulling up to games.

I'll take the bad guy role.

And I'll continue to take that on and be that for for my teammates and if I want to be that, and I know I'll go down to history. I'll look back in twenty years and be like, yeah, the reason why we're watching women's basketball is not just because of one person.

It's because of me too. And I want you to realize that a lot of us have done so much for this game.

And Kennedy has been here before obviously, but there are so many great players in this league that have deserved this for a really, really long time, and luckily it's coming now.

Yeah, talk yo, track what you talk about? Man? You watching the game because of me? And she ain't laugh because I'm one of them.

You talk about thoughts on our comments, Monica, I love it.

I love it.

But and this is where we talk about, You're not gonna turn into somebody different overnight.

Andres has never shot away from the mic.

She's willing to wear that villain label, however unfair.

It may be, but she gets it in the Macro.

And what I love about Angel, even when she announced she was going pro and Vogue, she speaks about the Macro.

And she does that deliberately.

That is not just oh, I'm going to just throw in the women that have come before me, right, And I think that is important in what makes and what is endearing about watching her.

But she's absolutely right. The girl, I'm sorry, I don't know her name, but.

The girl streamed a Sky's preseason game on her phone, y'all.

And had unteen tens of thousands of viewers that way.

It was like she wasn't it like an over a million? It got, It got over a million but.

You know what I mean, So there is a demand.

She absolutely has been a part of creating that that demand.

She's a huge part of this rookie class as well.

Well, we can't. We can't let Pat McAfee.

I guess he watched us this morning, and lord he was he had some coffee, he probably had an energy drink.

Do we have this sound? We can't play side?

Uh?

Monica?

Well, I know you. I know you've heard it by now. I think Pat got a little bit too amp. He forgot like, man, this live this. You know, normally we have a conversation like this, Monica, you and I, you and your girls off air. But we got a microphone and we got a camera with a red dot going. So what what what did you think when you heard p Matt start going?

So I didn't actually watch it, but I read the transcript and all articles that came down. Honestly, y'all, my first thought was, Okay, here we go with this not being about race from a person who is right, and again,

Right.

I wonder what this would look like if Kaylyn Clark was.

Back, she's proud of who she is. That's fantastic, right.

But this is where all the layers of this conversation come in, right, the two The NBA is a predominantly black women's league. It's also largely a queerly right and the gender sexuality race.

It's hard to parse.

This out of that conversation, at least for me as a woman, because I can't walk away from any part of who I am.

Right, Yes, and.

So his point about the other white chicken in the league that I have been bucket.

Sure, Stuart's the MVP, he is one championships with the Las Vegas DT. Obviously we had a conversation about her as a go, right, But to act as if there is no space to sit back and just wonder again, all I'm asking for folks that have just joined is to open your mind. Ultimately, you may disagree, and that's fine, but you should be able to be able to hold space to evaluate all the pieces that seem to be at play. Now, if you decide to pick up three

I would say, Monica, you said something very interesting and you would know better than I, but I was. I was thinking this, but I never said it. But since you brought it up, let's go here. How much do you think the predominant black queer helps or hurt the w NBA.

That's a loaded question, Shannon.

I think the w in the last few years has done a great job of leaning into who they are. They are not hiding who the who these women are and are hiding who they are. One thing about this rookie class has been their willingness to share their lives. But I had a chance to catch a great documentary this summer courtesy of w n B A p A. And I'm blanking on the name of the documentary and I apologize, but it highlighted John Cuel Jones, Brianna Stewart,

Escape, can't.

The documentary you're talking about is called Shattered Glass NBAA story.

Thank you.

I'm glad you have this conversation because at the end of the day, you're like people like, well, go market, go market, but at certain times, you know certain certain demographics you're trying to market too, because like when we go out, okay, we have to pitch, Okay, who are you trying to who are you trying to reach?

Mhm, we Club, Shay Shape, Nightcap.

We might not be able to reach who an advertiser or a sponsor try to reach. So it doesn't make sense for them to give us money if the people that they're trying to reach are not watching Nightcap, not watching Club. And so what you're saying, Monica, is like, Okay, we got to appeal to the people that you're trying to reach. But to say that game and queer people don't buy health and don't buy auto insurance, it's just not.

True to say it.

To say they don't go grocery shopping or buy cars, it's just not true.

So they're people they might have.

Chosen an alternative life and just outside of the norm, whatever norm is.

There's a new definition of norm now.

But I believe that you can reach people because everybody that watches television.

They're consumer.

You buy something, whether it's food, whether it's auto insurance, with this, whatever the clothing, whatever the case may be, you'll purchase something.

And when it comes to marketing and branding and w NBA and those that are queer are part of that community in general. That community to always sticks to, always sticks together and support each other. So the marketing on that end should be easy anyway. It's common sense, especially when to come to the higher ups and execs that are sitting in positions of power. That's a no brainer as far as going to come to marketing and branding

Himself, I can.

I can guide them in which way to go and on how to do it.

That's what I did to get some boardroom tables out. Joe Manica.

Let me ask you this because you know a lot of times black we used to have like who is in that room?

Why are you talking?

You're trying to monitor, you know, market the blacks, and there's no blacks in the commercial.

Wouldn't hell if.

There were queer gay in the rooms that could say, hey, guys, they have perch power.

I don't know.

I'm in California, man, they shut down. We hope gay Pride is a big thing day. So somebody drinking beers, buy cocktail and buy clothes. Mark, I'm just saying somebody doing that.

Yeah, and listen, the marketing has improved, right, But if we wanted to get into the weeds and gosh oh man, I should have pulled up on our research because there was a wonderful article done I want to say, about two seasons ago that looked at what demographic still in terms of representing the WNBA still got the lion's.

Share of marketing opportunities and it was largely straight white women.

Now in two years, I do believe that there have been improvements made in that area, right, And like I said, the WBA has leaned into who they are. These women are leaning int who they are. There's a number of queer athes out of w that I can think of that have had commercials and are currently in commercials that are still airing, and it's.

Beautiful to see. And so I do think that things are changing.

But just like in society, y'all, as painful as it is, right when we start having conversations about this societal totem pole, people especially women that sit at identities shout out to doctor Alfie, my girl that have intersectional identities often don't have privilege, and so they're minimalized a little bit or not a little bit, they become minimalized.

And so that again, that's a whole nother loaded conversation.

And I'm not trying to tell anybody that they can't be a fan of this player or that player.

But as you join this WNBA fanfare, welcome. It's room for everybody.

There have been twenty eight years of groundworking and there have been numbers of opportunities of research, right, and then when you look at the demographics of this league, like just keep your mind open to what is the reality of someone else's experience that may not look like That's the part that's frustrated to me in this conversation y'all.

Like one to hear ex athletes say, oh.

Just let her do whatever, and two folks that aren't taking the time to just do a little bit of digging about what the w NBA. Then how powerful these women have used their voices what they stand for, because.

It's beautiful it is, and thank you for opening up and sharing that with us.

I mean, you know, you being around the game, you playing the game, you being a woman yourself, you're better to speak to this in Oho than I because you're in that situation. There's no better person to speak to about a woman than a woman, And so sometimes you know, as men, we try to sit back and try to I don't know what it's like to have a baby, never had one, Dade, I don't want them kind of problem.

So I like women when women talk about women issues.

Yeah, I can have an opinion, but I'm just speaking at it from a man's point of view. And sometimes we only see things through the prism in which we are. You know, if I'm looking from a mountaintop, I don't know what it's like in the valley because I'm on top of the mountain looking out. You being a woman playing basketball, playing in the WNBA. Who better to speak

So I was gonna let you rock with this, but I gotta I gotta check you. One thing on my resume. I decided that I was done after college and wasn't a dab onw I did not playing the w Okay. Also, I'm gonna have to give with the chad Ocho Seco Agency to get me some more speaking engagements.

Whatever you need, listen, listen. I have a marketing firm, a brand in firm. So anything you need, just just holler at me.

I can. I can get the ball rolling. I got ya.

All jokes aside.

I have had the opportunity to speak not just to women's teams, but like last year, I had a chance to talk to rap with the.

Los Angeles Rams, right and just offering a different perspective.

As a member of the media, I do know that our friends and colleagues of China Robertson and that Gonke led a great media preparations for the rookies coming in this season. And so the w and the PA are about giving their players resources, as are the NBA, right, and so the.

League is just continuing to grow.

And when you talk about this male counterpart, it has a fifty year head.

Start, right, Martica.

I think the thing is a lot of times and people it's like, well, I think the thing what really got it trending at the end is that, well, Steve, you said stephen A, you had this platform and you're doing it now, but you probably should have done this a lot sooner.

Me.

I'm address that, but I have club shashape and people like, well, why did you have more women. I've reached out to women that play or played in the WNBA, and I get no returns. I've had one lady, she's not a professional basketball player. Two days before she's like, I'm gonna have to reschedule, and now my team can't get a hold of her. So I tried to give women because I pay, I got a nice size platform. So I want to give you an opportunity to share tell whatever

Stop you right now. I believe you.

But I'm gonna also say this because I had to think twice before.

I said yes. Because I have seen some night cap clips.

Okay, you have to ask yourself is this a space?

Right?

And so I shouldn't I believe when you say you want to have that conversation, right, But I think because of the opportunities to brand for women are a little bit hold on, let me get my words right. The opportunities for women to build their brands are so heavily scrutinized, right that you probably think more dutifully before you say yes to an opportunity, depending on how it fits and make you feel that the.

Space is safe. So I don't know why people are saying yes or no to you, But.

Honestly, like, if we ain't had this thing this morning, like I would not have thought of myself as a nightcap gues just based on the clips that I've seen and I've met with one person.

If I met you one person, I think y'all are great guys. But like, I'm not going to tell y'all what else goes down in my bedroom.

Like, and so you do just wonder if spaces are safe, and so as you continue to grow your platform, I would encourage you maybe to offer the topics in events.

And you may have done this already, right.

I always ask any guests, is there anything that you're uncomfortable with? I ask a question you can You can also say with Shanna, you know that question that you asked Maryland I talked about can you not air that boom?

We take it out? Yeah, heyb I.

Want you to be most of the time when people come, they're speaking their truth. Now, if I ask you a question and you tell me what went down in your bedroom, how's that?

How am I being messy? You could have say shaddy? Now you know.

Now I am stappy. But I don't know. Yes, I might feel a little pressure to keep up with the Joneses on like some people. Now you I know y'all get a little following here.

Yo. Yeah, we but see that's the thing.

They come for the sports, they stay for the story, so you know, you know, it's it's kind of like Monica a game. Let's just stay for the sake of argument. I let you to an arena for free, but I charge you to get out.

You see, now listen all jokes aside.

I do want to address the end of that clip.

I genuinely was surprised by the reaction, and I did not intend to make it personal.

But when I look at steven A in my relationship with steven A.

Hee, then not your ESPN as far as I'm concerned, Yes, and I hear in this woman's basketball space for so long and have been privy to many a conversation pushing and pitching and asking for space. So as from where I sit, if esay says let's talk about it, it's gonna be discussed right right. He and I had a

And that is just a fact.

Yeah, well we weren't having this conversation three months ago. But you said, Monica, it's never too late to do the right thing.

Absolutely, And I think that some people be like, oh, nobody was talking about like you.

I heard you at the end of that show you lucky Moley had to go to break. You're talking about Monica.

You've proven his point because nobody was talking about Okayla Clark after three years ago.

Your southern sass back there.

Now, this is where this is where we have to really are you and tussle.

With this idea of cart before the horse or horse before the cart, right?

And I know we don't seev work Shanning just like you said, Ojo go talk about the Cowboys, can talk about the Lakers like there are these things that hit. And so I understand the idea that the WNBA may not have been drawing the same numbers that it is now three years ago.

But again, two things can be true.

That doesn't necessarily mean that those women prior to the arrival of this rookie class, we're still not worthy of coverage.

Right, Let's transition w the NBA Finals.

You got the Dallas Mavericks, Luca Kyrie, Boston Celtics, JT JB. Who you like and what matchup are you looking most forward to?

I don't know who I like yet, y'all.

I think we will get seven, seven and five really great games. Might be a couple duds in there, but I think we are really in for it in this series. I think one of the matchups that intrigues me most is obviously what is Christops.

Person is going to look like?

And I think of Derek Lively probably before I think of Daniel Gafford, but either one of them. In terms of christophs Frezeingi's ability to pull them away from the paint as their rum protectors, right and then okay, so after that, then I immediately go to clutch and Luke and Kyrie, Oh, when it's clutched time right now? We obviously had the Jaylen Brown three in the Indiana series that was big time.

I can't I'm pretty sure we.

Have THEO They were down with like eight with like two minutes ago, two and a half minutes to go, right, And.

So I cannot say, and I should have pulled up the clutch numbers before we got on here, But I cannot say that I don't trust Boston in the clutch. But recent history tells me that Luke and Kyrie are about the clutch.

Right.

I'm gonna stay Boston for now because That's where I've been all season long. H And I do think that they have a unique ability to defend and make life a little bit more difficult for those guys.

But I could he's so wrong, and I just think we are in for a really great series.

You know.

Do you think it's a narrative where people out there trying to put the media, you and I both in the media.

I don't think we've done it.

But maybe I'm wrong that we try to put JT and JB, try to pit them against each other.

I think when something doesn't work, the media's job is to pick it apart, okay, And I think we all would agree. No, it feels like they're a little bit late to the party in terms of winning a championship, right, Like they were the better team in twenty twenty two as Steph when Stephan we got his Finals MVP right, right? And so I think when something when expectations are.

Unmeat, the human nature is what will happen?

Why? Right?

And those two being your stars are the easiest target.

Right, Because I think that, and I've said this, I believe that I could be wrong. You correct me, because you watch basketball, if not as much as I do, if not more. I believe JT is the better player. I believe Jale Brown has been the better player in the playoffs when you look at the entirety of the playoffs. If you look and I know jt average more in the finals in the West, in East Eastern Conference Finals, but I thought Jaylen Brown played better the big the

What do you think.

I think that's fair. I do think.

And again, like I'm not naive, I know sports conversations don't have nuance, which is again why we started this podcast.

Thank you for giving me the space.

To have nuanced because if ever there was a conversation to have a little bit of nuance, it's this WNBA conversation. But when it comes to the Celtics, I think we got to stop.

Moving the gold posts.

Right.

Okay, Jaylen Brown earned Finals Conference Finals MVP. He did that, right, Boston, Brad Stevens and company. They put together a team, right. The reason in my mind why Jason Tatum was less discussed in MVP and all of that stuff is because it was a team.

League.

Brian Winners has talked about how much of the loan one has to bear, and because Boston has a team, it looks like Jason Tatum has had to bear a little bit less.

So for me, I do think the.

Subjects have to get it done.

I think Jason Tatum is still young in his career. He's an excellent ball player. I do not think he has to win finals MVP. I think that is the goalpost that continues to move because I'm not going to penalize him.

If the guys around him.

That were brought to the organization so they could finally win a title, hope to get it done.

But you know that happens. You know that, and you know that happened. We saw, We saw with Steph, we saw with Kobe. You know, you know, you know that happens, Monica. When the supposed the best player and he doesn't win that finals MVP, they're like.

The only guy.

And this was before your time that I don't remember getting criticized for being the best player and not winning

That's way before my time.

Tell me Coran, Brad Maxwell wonted And when they beat the when they beat the Rocket and he had eight points the last two games. If I'm not mistaken, Coran Brad Maxwell was Finals MVP, but he was the Rookie of the Year and he wont to have like thirty three votes. The Magic got three. But you know, I believe, I agree with you. I believe they need to win. If they don't win and he plays like he did against Golden State, Monica, you know it's gonna be a blood blad.

You know that where it's gonna be a blood bath anyway, because I already told you mas and seven.

Who oh shuck, I already already told I already.

I already told you another Listen, there's no way to stop Luca and Kyrie, and it just it is.

It is what it is. They had the clutch, Geen.

If the Celtics have too many off nights shooting three and they're not efficient from the field, it's gonna be a long series.

I really want to believe that they're not gonna trip over the three point line in that way, like there's enough basketball prowess that they would not be lowed to their own minds by shooting.

But that's that's who they are, Modica. Then you know that's who they are. They take the most, they make the most.

Oh, I just really want to believe though, y'all.

Look, I love what I can do for a living, but this kind of stuff is actually very orgonizing, right, because you got one fan base that's gonna hate you, one fan base that is gonna love you.

But like, I can see it go either way, y'all.

I think I let me ask you a question, who do you think they start out on Luca? Because I don't think I think Holiday might be a Holiday and Derek White might be too small. You think they start go Jaylen Brown knowing that he's gonna have to give up something offensive because Luca is a Marston on the offensive end, So to try to neutralize some of what he does, you might have to give up some of

Well, here's the thing, right, Luca kept getting loose versus the wolves when them screens came and the switches came, so it didn't really matter who started. Primarily, I think Drew Holliday is such a versatile defender that I don't know if they started him on Luca. He was my first thought because I think Drew size is underrated, his strength is underrated as a defender the whole bit, because again, this thing is gonna be about making it.

As difficult as possible.

And so if you are playing ahead and thinking that the screen action is gonna if the screening action is going to come, especially if they end up doing the Luca kyrieguard to guard thing like, it don't really matter, you know what I mean. My first thought is still gonna be Drew. But I think at points we will.

See Drew, Derek, Jason, and Jalen.

I think they will all get a piece at some points and that and to me, that might be the X factor of what the Celtics have in terms of four guys that can make it difficult stop but can make it difficult.

Luca is a guy that he also he'll go away from the screen. The Mavericks do a very good thing. They like to set the screen because they know if you put the screen in either corner, they can trap it,

He passed them the ball and boom.

This is where Porzenkis becomes a big deal because his length can at least disrupt long enough to you know, they sometimes they say hold it for a second, right, Like his link can disrupt long enough that either of those guys got to look to survey before they make a pass, and they certainly got to pay a stention if they make a play on the rim.

But you're absolutely right in terms of the corners.

They forgot rid the corner and.

Luke on one's side, like.

The space is just too much room. So I'm excited, though, I just think what game game one probably would look different from game two, and then you know, it's all the adjustments, Like Jason Kidd's been phenomenal, Joonazula has been great for this group. Like I cannot wait to see all the adjustments and the wrinkles, because even though we think we know.

Aboulcohol, we have some stuff up.

They sleep now, they do, they do, But eventually, you know one thing, Monica, You're gonna beat me with what I do best. I'm not out hey. I'm gonna give you a wrinkle here and a wrinkle there. But I've got to get back to what got me here. This was the lady that brought me to the party. I know there's some other pretty ladies out there, but I got I gotta, I gotta dance with what got me here.

Mark, This is why women don't want to be coming on a nightcap.

You come, Mordica. We got a few more questions then we'll get you out of here. Kyrie reflected on this self tenure earlier today. Let's take a listen to what Kyrie had to say.

You know, last time in Boston, I don't think that was the best uh you know, not this regular season, but when we played in the playoffs and everyone saw me flip off the birds and kind of lose my shit a little bit, that wasn't a great reflection of who I am. How I like to compete on a high level. You know, it wasn't a great reflection on my endswas the next generation on what it means to control your emotions in that type of environment, no matter

So of course it's going to be a hectic environment.

But I'm looking forward to it and I see it as a healthy relationship to have with the fans. You know, I almost think about Gladiator, just win the crowd over. You know, it's good to hear the TD Garden silent when you're playing well. They still respect great basketball. So regardless of you know, the attention that's being paid to what it's going to be like, on my end, I have a group to lead.

You like Catrie's growth maturity.

Listen, shout out to the insecure and I can't think of the actors's name. I played Kelly. But that's the growth. Okay, we got the growth. I love it.

And look y'all, I mean, oh, so you had some moments with the media, right, like, you know what it is?

Right?

I think again, and this is one thing that I try, I hope is attached to me in the face. I kind of come with the thing not forgetting the humanity of these elite athletes. Just because y'all can do and have done things that most of us can only hope and dream about. It doesn't mean that you are also not human people with emotions and feelings and pass entry to grow in right, And so for me, that is

Now.

I will say, somebody sent me a hilarious screenshot that was like not the media talking about Kyrie like he wasn't asshole for the last five years. Okay, there's a psychotomy there, but we can't lean in.

We're gonna lean into this growth.

And so I think as much as he's grown as an athlete, he's also grown as a man.

Yes, sir, marriage Natasha Natasha Rothwell is the act you talked about growth.

She is hysterical.

She should get a spin off, please, Eastern Ray, Can we just get a Kelly spinoff.

Thank you.

Which duo you, Tay, would you rather have in this theory? Luca, Kyrie, j t j B mm hmm.

Yeah.

Someone who's basketball ethos tends to lean towards the team that can defend better. The duo in this conversation that has a little bit more two way.

Is a Celtics duo.

Mmm, all right, we're gonna see.

We're gonna see how how good that defensive pridess turns out when the mass.

Sweet, you ain't lying, no, Joe, We're gonna find out, and.

We're gonna get you out, get you out here on this with Monica. Whose legacy do you think will be more impacted with an out by this outcome?

The Jordan brand because Jason Tatum is a Jordan athlete.

Hey, this is gonna be big for Kyrie's own brand, Anthea, it is. Can you imagine Kyrie wins his second his second title, especially as you said, what he's gone through since he last played with Lebron twenty seventeen, so eighteen nineteen two, and you know, half of twenty three he was there and and and to see what he's become. As you, as we talked about the maturity the growth, the maturation, marriage, kids. He's he's at peace. Yeah, that's

Man, I'm a Maryland girl. I don't know if y'all said this down in the South, but my mom and I'm an honest to them. Just keep on living. Just keep on living. And you like, if you keep on living, you are going to be forced to grow.

Yes, yes, So you know what, Monica, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

I wanted to have this conversation.

I wanted you to give give you an opportunity on the space to have a nuanced conversation where we're not up against the clock, that we don't have to get to a commercial, we don't have to get to the top of the hour, we don't have to do anything. We just had a fifty five minute, fifty six minute conversation and I hope I'll viewing and listening audience enjoyed it. Thank you for coming on. You'll welcome back anytime. You know you well, you know what I'm trying to do.

Yeah, I got a.

Little text alkay, listen, I shan that uncle. I'm going back and forth today.

I really appreciate this.

I think the internet went a blaze, and truly that was not my intention, and I walked away from our conversation not thinking that I had said anything earth shattering. It was just if you take a step back and look at the big picture, you know what I mean?

Yes, Steven as our boy, We're good.

Oh that's my day.

And she's the more baketball coverage, like, let's get it.

He definitely get He definitely getting to watch for me for for for Christmas with my.

Watch it watch. I'm not on the contract yet. I need to watch.

Oh what I got that new I got that new updated Apple Watch. You want it?

I mean for the free. I don't turn down qualities. That's still.

Monica. Thank you so much. I really really really appreciate that. Thank you for joining us. We know it's probably past your bed. It's eleven o'clock on the East Coast time. You're probably normally in the bed. So I'm not gonna keep you, oh your nine nine caps, I'm not gonna keep you any further from your fiance. Get to him and turn this camera off, Thank you Monica, Thank you guys.