Take a surreal road trip with DOG FM

00:04-00:05 After 00:05-00:12 250 yards, leave the roundabout at the third exit and then follow the A351. 00:14-00:14 I 00:14-00:19 was listening to a podcast about a battle in Normandy. 00:22-00:23 Please 00:23-00:24 take the third exit. 00:26-00:31 to get the Germans out of Normandy which has these incredibly steep 00:31-00:35 pitches. 00:37-00:43 They're going to defensively defend very easily right now. 00:45-00:45 Until 00:45-00:50 they discover that they've got a spike from the main attack. 01:20-01:22 *Metal 01:22-01:25 150 yards, leave the roundabout at the first exit. 01:37-01:38 Please 01:38-01:39 take the first exit. 01:51-01:55 After 100 hours, we need the roundabout at the second exit. 01:55-01:55 You Adam Cecil: 01:55-01:58 just heard the first two minutes or so of Dog FM. Adam Cecil: 01:59-02:03 That's the debut release of Oliver Chapman and Phoebe Eccles, Adam Cecil: 02:03-02:07 who are my guests tonight on the Nightwater podcast, Adam Cecil: 02:07-02:10 the official audio companion to the Nightwater newsletter. Adam Cecil: 02:11-02:12 Okay, so imagine this. Adam Cecil: 02:12-02:14 You wake up in the middle of the night. Adam Cecil: 02:14-02:15 You are parched. Adam Cecil: 02:15-02:18 You stumble out of bed towards the kitchen, Adam Cecil: 02:18-02:20 seeking the cold touch of fresh water. Adam Cecil: 02:20-02:21 on your lips. Adam Cecil: 02:21-02:22 You Adam Cecil: 02:22-02:26 pour yourself a glass and guzzle it down. Nothing has ever tasted so good. Adam Cecil: 02:27-02:32 Your mind and your body are completely refreshed and you're ready to return to bed for a blissful, Adam Cecil: 02:33-02:33 dreamless sleep. Adam Cecil: 02:34-02:35 That's Adam Cecil: 02:35-02:39 exactly what it's like to read Nightwater. It's a late night niche culture Adam Cecil: 02:39-02:44 newsletter. It comes out most Tuesdays at 11 p.m. Eastern. Here's what one satisfied subscriber Adam Cecil: 02:44-02:51 wrote about Nightwater recently. They said, I can confidently say that Nightwater is one of the Adam Cecil: 02:51-02:56 weirder newsletters I subscribe to, and which you might enjoy for its utterly idiosyncratic approach Adam Cecil: 02:57-02:58 to subject matter. Adam Cecil: 02:58-02:59 That Adam Cecil: 02:59-03:03 about sums it up, including the emphasis on might enjoy. My name is Adam Adam Cecil: 03:03-03:09 Cecil. I write Nightwater, and I am your host this evening. Let's get back to Dog FM. I came across Adam Cecil: 03:09-03:10 this, Adam Cecil: 03:10-03:11 I'm Adam Cecil: 03:11-03:16 not really sure what to call it, album, experimental audio project, surreal, narrative-less Adam Cecil: 03:16-03:22 audio drama, whatever you want to call it, I came across it on Bandcamp. Bandcamp featured it as one Adam Cecil: 03:22-03:27 of the best new field recording releases for February 2025, and I was immediately hooked just Adam Cecil: 03:27-03:34 by the name Dog FM. In addition to being on Bandcamp, it's also a cassette. Side A is called Adam Cecil: 03:34-03:39 Made by Dogs, Side B is called For Dogs, and of course the animal featured on the cover is Adam Cecil: 03:39-03:40 A Adam Cecil: 03:40-03:40 Pig. Adam Cecil: 03:40-03:41 I've Adam Cecil: 03:41-03:46 been listening to it a lot since I've picked it up. I find it captivating. Like I said Adam Cecil: 03:46-03:51 before, you could call it kind of a narrative-less audio drama. There is a real structure to it, Adam Cecil: 03:51-03:56 in large part thanks to kind of three threads that are pulled through the entire piece. So Adam Cecil: 03:56-04:02 one is this conversation on a family road trip where Oliver's family got lost and quite frustrated Adam Cecil: 04:02-04:07 with each other. Second are the dog noises, the panting, the whining that kind of follow us Adam Cecil: 04:07-04:12 through the whole piece. And third is Phoebe's poetry. Not that the poetry gives us any sense Adam Cecil: 04:12-04:17 of a storyline per se, but it adds another layer, another entry point into understanding how the Adam Cecil: 04:18-04:22 soundscape and the music is making you feel. And I've been really loving it. I've been listening Adam Cecil: 04:23-04:28 to Dog FM a lot on my iPod before I go to sleep, which might be one reason why I've been having Adam Cecil: 04:28-04:33 very odd dreams recently. In any case, I'm so thankful that Oliver and Phoebe gave me some of Adam Cecil: 04:33-04:38 their time to talk about the origins of Dog FM, how they composed this piece, and of course, Adam Cecil: 04:39-04:44 their ideal late night vibes. But before I jump into the interview, just want to remind you, Adam Cecil: 04:44-04:46 if you're not already subscribed to the Nightwater newsletter, Adam Cecil: 04:47-04:47 please Adam Cecil: 04:47-04:49 do so at nightwater.email. Adam Cecil: 04:49-04:55 That is a URL, totally free with an optional paid tier. If you want to give your financial support, Adam Cecil: 04:55-04:56 I would really appreciate it. Adam Cecil: 04:56-04:57 All Adam Cecil: 04:57-04:57 right, Adam Cecil: 04:57-04:58 here's Adam Cecil: 04:58-05:00 Oliver Chapman and Phoebe Eccles here to talk about Adam Cecil: 05:01-05:02 Dog FM. Adam Cecil: 05:19-05:19 uh Adam Cecil: 05:19-05:25 well oliver and phoebe thank you so much for for joining the nightwater podcast uh i would love Adam Cecil: 05:25-05:30 i mean could you just describe both of you just describe yourselves and your Oliver Chapman: 05:30-05:31 art so far Oliver Chapman: 05:31-05:32 well Oliver Chapman: 05:32-05:32 we Oliver Chapman: 05:32-05:36 actually had a conversation about this question and we thought we would just is it okay if we Oliver Chapman: 05:36-05:41 describe each other and then describe our own art because i love that i love that bb can you Oliver Chapman: 05:41-05:42 describe me first oh Phoebe Eccles: 05:42-05:48 i was going to tell you to describe me first um ollie is my lovely friend Phoebe Eccles: 05:48-05:57 he's pretty tall he um yeah he's he's an interesting person he's very funny and he's been Phoebe Eccles: 05:57-06:03 making art or specifically music um for all the years that i've known him but through sort of Phoebe Eccles: 06:03-06:10 different different sorry this is going into your um yeah you're treading into my heart yeah no just Phoebe Eccles: 06:10-06:14 back to back to early yeah he's great fun and he's very wise as well Phoebe Eccles: 06:14-06:16 yeah Phoebe Eccles: 06:16-06:18 well Oliver Chapman: 06:18-06:19 i'd say phoebe Oliver Chapman: 06:20-06:24 you've got a lot of a lot of wisdom i was gonna i was gonna say his hidden wisdom but it's not Oliver Chapman: 06:24-06:29 that hidden I think you share it quite freely on the surface hopefully um you're good company Oliver Chapman: 06:30-06:32 you're also very funny oh Phoebe Eccles: 06:32-06:32 and Oliver Chapman: 06:32-06:33 a good friend Oliver Chapman: 06:33-06:35 and Oliver Chapman: 06:35-06:38 I think a wonderful creative as well Oliver Chapman: 06:39-06:40 shall I describe my art first Oliver Chapman: 06:40-06:42 yeah I Oliver Chapman: 06:42-06:45 mean I've made loads of stuff over the years I've made work Oliver Chapman: 06:45-06:47 since I was a teenager but I think Oliver Chapman: 06:47-06:48 my Oliver Chapman: 06:48-06:51 kind of favorite type of work is always a kind of that Oliver Chapman: 06:51-06:58 I've made is always a kind of combination of sincerity and irreverence kind of playful Oliver Chapman: 06:59-07:04 and surreal I would say so often combining those things in one way or another through different Oliver Chapman: 07:04-07:05 different forms but Oliver Chapman: 07:05-07:06 yeah Oliver Chapman: 07:06-07:07 often has those qualities. 07:08-07:08 I'd Phoebe Eccles: 07:08-07:11 say that I write poetry and I've been doing Phoebe Eccles: 07:11-07:17 that for a few years although maybe it's only being published a bit more in the recent recent Phoebe Eccles: 07:17-07:24 last couple years um and I guess my poetry is yeah I don't really know how to describe it I Phoebe Eccles: 07:24-07:27 guess sometimes I'm using the lyric voice but I'm also sort of interested in Phoebe Eccles: 07:27-07:29 in Phoebe Eccles: 07:29-07:30 the sort of more Phoebe Eccles: 07:30-07:35 experimental or strange side although I feel like most poetry kind of veers into that even when it's Phoebe Eccles: 07:35-07:36 not trying to 07:36-07:37 I Adam Cecil: 07:37-07:41 mean so I'm curious like I mean just the process of putting together dog fm I Adam Cecil: 07:41-07:46 mean so you guys have been friends for a while how did you meet and how did you just decide to Adam Cecil: 07:46-07:47 collaborate on something together 07:47-07:48 how Oliver Chapman: 07:48-07:50 did we meet do you want to tell that story phoebe Oliver Chapman: 07:52-07:54 it's not particularly it's not a particularly exciting one 07:56-07:57 we Phoebe Eccles: 07:57-08:02 were saying before it's sorted through through people we were dating so i was dating someone and Phoebe Eccles: 08:02-08:07 then through met ollie through that group of friends and then i became very good friends Phoebe Eccles: 08:08-08:12 with someone that ollie was dating and is still very good friends with and who i'm still very Phoebe Eccles: 08:12-08:18 good friends with so I think through these links um we've known each other for a while but I'd say Phoebe Eccles: 08:18-08:21 we sort of became closer friends over the last year or so Oliver Chapman: 08:21-08:23 yeah I was I've always really Oliver Chapman: 08:23-08:24 had Oliver Chapman: 08:24-08:24 a Oliver Chapman: 08:24-08:25 great time hanging out but we never Oliver Chapman: 08:25-08:27 quite Oliver Chapman: 08:27-08:27 like Oliver Chapman: 08:27-08:28 gotten Oliver Chapman: 08:28-08:30 closer until this year 08:30-08:31 yeah and Oliver Chapman: 08:31-08:31 then I Oliver Chapman: 08:31-08:35 think it was I always really loved Phoebe's work Oliver Chapman: 08:35-08:36 and Oliver Chapman: 08:36-08:38 when I got into field recording which was Oliver Chapman: 08:38-08:43 quite new to me only about a year and a half ago I was looking for a collaborator and Oliver Chapman: 08:43-08:44 I Oliver Chapman: 08:44-08:44 thought Oliver Chapman: 08:45-08:53 Phoebe would be ideal both to become better friends with her of course but also because I Oliver Chapman: 08:53-08:58 really liked her work yeah so that's that's how it started. So what was the I mean what was the Oliver Chapman: 08:58-08:59 genesis of this project in Adam Cecil: 08:59-09:02 particular Dog FM you know how did you Adam Cecil: 09:02-09:03 come Adam Cecil: 09:03-09:04 to this idea? 09:04-09:04 I Oliver Chapman: 09:04-09:04 would say Oliver Chapman: 09:04-09:09 we kind of stumbled across it blindly and I mean like I said I had um Oliver Chapman: 09:09-09:10 I Oliver Chapman: 09:10-09:11 got into field recording Oliver Chapman: 09:11-09:12 music kind of Oliver Chapman: 09:12-09:14 almost Oliver Chapman: 09:14-09:16 accidentally somebody recommended me a Oliver Chapman: 09:16-09:17 an Oliver Chapman: 09:17-09:18 ambient album it was Oliver Chapman: 09:18-09:22 actually a soundtrack from a film and I got really into that it was it was a bug's life Oliver Chapman: 09:22-09:28 the ambient sounds of a bug's life and then I also discovered uh one of my colleagues was Oliver Chapman: 09:28-09:34 field recording royalty I work in a school and I work with this man called Mr Lampkin Oliver Chapman: 09:34-09:37 And it turned out that he was Graham Lemkin, who, Oliver Chapman: 09:37-09:38 well, Oliver Chapman: 09:39-09:40 little did I know, was a field recording celebrity. Oliver Chapman: 09:41-09:45 And at the same time, so at the same time as this, I kind of got into his work. Oliver Chapman: 09:45-09:50 And then I, I think, enrolled on an evening course at Goldsmith to do field recording. Oliver Chapman: 09:50-09:52 And I started taking samples. Oliver Chapman: 09:52-09:57 And I think our first conversation was, let's put poetry and field recording together. Oliver Chapman: 09:58-09:59 That Oliver Chapman: 09:59-09:59 was where we started. Oliver Chapman: 09:59-10:02 There was no idea of where that would go. Oliver Chapman: 10:03-10:03 And Oliver Chapman: 10:03-10:07 then it kind of slowly morphed over months, really slowly. Oliver Chapman: 10:07-10:10 I knew that I wanted to make something kind of long form, Oliver Chapman: 10:11-10:15 both in terms of process and in terms of the actual experience of listening. Oliver Chapman: 10:16-10:18 But I had no idea that it would end up being what it was, Oliver Chapman: 10:19-10:21 apart from being something that included poetry. Oliver Chapman: 10:22-10:24 Yeah, what was your experience, Phoebe? Oliver Chapman: 10:24-10:27 Because I guess we're on slightly different sides of the project. 10:28-10:29 Yeah, Phoebe Eccles: 10:29-10:31 I guess at first, because I was thinking about it Phoebe Eccles: 10:31-10:39 from the poetry side and Ollie said how do you feel about recording your poems um with sound Phoebe Eccles: 10:40-10:44 and I didn't really know what that was going to look like and I think at first I was a bit Phoebe Eccles: 10:44-10:50 anxious about it because poetry sometimes when it's said out loud is embarrassing Phoebe Eccles: 10:51-10:58 and I didn't want to be I didn't want to embarrass myself um and I did find when I was first reading Phoebe Eccles: 10:58-11:05 poems it was really hard to avoid poet's voice um so I think the early process for me was sort Phoebe Eccles: 11:05-11:10 of figuring out with Ollie actually how to sort of how to shift from that and how to change that Phoebe Eccles: 11:10-11:12 and I think what happened is as the project got bigger Phoebe Eccles: 11:12-11:13 which Phoebe Eccles: 11:13-11:14 I didn't know it was going to get Phoebe Eccles: 11:14-11:16 so big maybe you did know I think we Oliver Chapman: 11:16-11:17 started with less in terms of Phoebe Eccles: 11:17-11:18 like long Oliver Chapman: 11:18-11:20 yeah I think we started Oliver Chapman: 11:20-11:24 with let's make something worth 15 minutes we had no idea how it was going to be tied together Oliver Chapman: 11:24-11:26 And it really, I think it was shaped just by Oliver Chapman: 11:26-11:28 the Oliver Chapman: 11:28-11:29 samples that I was getting. Oliver Chapman: 11:29-11:34 So it wasn't that I kind of recorded loads of stuff and then was like, let's make something out of this. Oliver Chapman: 11:34-11:41 We were kind of recording samples and making the composition at the same time. Oliver Chapman: 11:41-11:41 So it kind of Oliver Chapman: 11:41-11:44 got Oliver Chapman: 11:44-11:48 molded together and it was kind of shaped by whatever I came across. Adam Cecil: 11:50-11:51 Is that true for the poetry as well? Adam Cecil: 11:51-11:55 Were you writing the poetry along with the recordings and the composition? Phoebe Eccles: 11:55-12:00 So the first two poems in the piece I'd written before, but we sort of tried a few poems. Phoebe Eccles: 12:00-12:02 So the first poem we recorded was a poem that I'd Phoebe Eccles: 12:02-12:03 been Phoebe Eccles: 12:03-12:04 working on for a long time, Phoebe Eccles: 12:04-12:07 a longer poem than any of the ones in the piece and a poem that I Phoebe Eccles: 12:07-12:08 think Phoebe Eccles: 12:08-12:09 is good. Phoebe Eccles: 12:09-12:11 But it's a poem with quite a distinct Phoebe Eccles: 12:11-12:12 emotional Phoebe Eccles: 12:12-12:13 tone to it. Phoebe Eccles: 12:13-12:16 And I think when we were working on it, actually, it sounded great, didn't it? Phoebe Eccles: 12:17-12:21 because we had these sort of like stirring chords that came in at one point. Phoebe Eccles: 12:21-12:23 Oh, the very first thing that ended up Oliver Chapman: 12:23-12:24 not being on the piece. Oliver Chapman: 12:24-12:25 Yeah, exactly. Oliver Chapman: 12:25-12:25 That's right. Oliver Chapman: 12:25-12:26 Yeah, and Phoebe Eccles: 12:26-12:29 it did sound good, but I think in the end we dropped it Phoebe Eccles: 12:29-12:33 because it wasn't quite working or it didn't feel quite right with the overall piece. Phoebe Eccles: 12:33-12:35 So we dropped that and then we tried a few different poems. Phoebe Eccles: 12:35-12:40 So the first two poems were, I think I edited them slightly the more I spoke them Phoebe Eccles: 12:40-12:46 to sort of make them sound more conversational, but barely, just a tiny bit. Phoebe Eccles: 12:46-12:52 And then the third poem I wrote in response to everything that Ollie had made or that we'd made. Phoebe Eccles: 12:52-12:55 Yeah, no, that was kind of like, yeah, Oliver Chapman: 12:55-12:58 because the whole thing took about eight months, I would say. Oliver Chapman: 12:59-13:05 And yeah, you kind of wrote the final poem in response to what we'd made up until that point, which was pretty much the whole thing. Oliver Chapman: 13:06-13:07 But yeah, I would say the process was, Oliver Chapman: 13:08-13:09 you Oliver Chapman: 13:09-13:13 know, certainly starting very blindly and over time it took shape. Oliver Chapman: 13:13-13:18 And I think it really took shape when I happened to get those recordings Oliver Chapman: 13:18-13:19 of my family and the dog in the car. Oliver Chapman: 13:20-13:26 And that was a pure accident that I got captured that moment. Oliver Chapman: 13:27-13:27 I Oliver Chapman: 13:27-13:30 really wasn't aware of that conversation going on when I was recording it. Oliver Chapman: 13:30-13:32 I was just recording the dog. Oliver Chapman: 13:32-13:32 I've 13:32-13:32 had a friend that has Phoebe Eccles: 13:32-13:33 a reception. Phoebe Eccles: 13:34-13:35 He Phoebe Eccles: 13:35-13:36 can order live vacations. 13:37-13:38 It doesn't work for me. 13:39-13:40 It doesn't work for my family. 13:40-13:40 And I've had no Phoebe Eccles: 13:40-13:41 reception. 13:42-13:42 I don't know why we... 13:45-13:45 On 13:45-13:47 the website that was posted. 13:48-13:49 I Phoebe Eccles: 13:49-13:49 was 13:49-13:49 supposed to Phoebe Eccles: 13:49-13:50 go to Google Maps 13:50-13:51 link. 13:51-13:52 That's where we are. Phoebe Eccles: 13:52-13:53 Sorry, say it again. 13:54-13:56 I was supposed to go to Google Maps link. 13:57-13:58 That's actually where we are. 13:58-13:58 Yeah, Adam Cecil: 13:58-13:59 your live location. Phoebe Eccles: 14:00-14:01 No, not my live location. 14:02-14:03 I posted a Google Maps link. 14:06-14:07 Why 14:07-14:09 we just can't follow each other in a car like we used to do. 14:10-14:10 That would be a lot easier. 14:12-14:17 I know that Matilda is trying... I have no reception. Can I turn off... 14:17-14:19 Can you get off my 14:19-14:20 phone? 14:20-14:21 That Oliver Chapman: 14:21-14:24 obviously forms the narrative thread of the piece and I think that's when it... Oliver Chapman: 14:25-14:27 there was something to kind of thread all this... Oliver Chapman: 14:27-14:28 all Oliver Chapman: 14:28-14:30 these soundscapes and poems together. Oliver Chapman: 14:30-14:35 I think without... before that it was a bit kind of... you know, meandering. Oliver Chapman: 14:35-14:42 it was it was uh you know so i think that which was you know um i was expecting um but yeah it Oliver Chapman: 14:42-14:45 was it was that that was when it kind of started to make sense i guess yeah Phoebe Eccles: 14:45-14:46 i think the contrast Phoebe Eccles: 14:46-14:52 of the of the natural speech of your family um and and those words existing in a very particular Phoebe Eccles: 14:52-14:58 way um and then the poems coming in and being in such a different kind of sphere or um yeah Phoebe Eccles: 14:58-15:02 language being used in such a very different way and then that was so big with the sounds which Phoebe Eccles: 15:02-15:05 also a kind of language I think yeah that that really worked well. 15:05-15:06 Yeah Oliver Chapman: 15:06-15:07 and suddenly then these Oliver Chapman: 15:07-15:09 other soundscapes I'd made kind of Oliver Chapman: 15:09-15:10 yeah Oliver Chapman: 15:10-15:14 they felt connected with that with the space of the car and Oliver Chapman: 15:14-15:16 the family and it all made sense you know Oliver Chapman: 15:16-15:17 it Oliver Chapman: 15:17-15:21 was something to kind of connect with I think in a Oliver Chapman: 15:21-15:24 tangible way. I think it actually reflects also my like Oliver Chapman: 15:24-15:25 enthusiasm Oliver Chapman: 15:25-15:27 and excitement for like going Oliver Chapman: 15:27-15:34 around mainly London just recording stuff and without planning to it that's the way it was Oliver Chapman: 15:34-15:40 it was shaped by that definitely and I was just excited to kind of explore different soundscapes Oliver Chapman: 15:40-15:45 and see what I could make and these different spaces and ambiences and moods yeah 15:45-15:46 for Adam Cecil: 15:46-15:47 the poetry Adam Cecil: 15:48-15:53 side of things so you said that you know you were kind of finding your own like reading voice while Adam Cecil: 15:53-15:57 you were recording I mean is that something that you've done a lot of before a lot of readings Adam Cecil: 15:57-16:00 any kind of recording of your poetry before um Phoebe Eccles: 16:00-16:03 I don't think any recording um quite a few years Phoebe Eccles: 16:03-16:04 ago I was doing Phoebe Eccles: 16:04-16:05 I Phoebe Eccles: 16:05-16:07 was doing spoken word but I didn't really Phoebe Eccles: 16:07-16:08 I Phoebe Eccles: 16:08-16:09 guess I was trying to be a stand-up Phoebe Eccles: 16:09-16:13 comedian but I was rhyming and it was it's it's quite easy to make people laugh you were you Oliver Chapman: 16:13-16:13 were Oliver Chapman: 16:13-16:16 you were funny definitely I mean still are but but Phoebe Eccles: 16:16-16:17 then when I tried to do 16:19-16:19 business Oliver Chapman: 16:19-16:24 is it was it was i remember your early performances being being fun they're laughing a Oliver Chapman: 16:24-16:25 lot i was like Phoebe Eccles: 16:25-16:28 don't waste people's time on stage if you're not going to make them laugh but um Phoebe Eccles: 16:28-16:29 but Phoebe Eccles: 16:29-16:33 then when i tried to do stand up without rhyming it didn't it didn't work it went wrong Phoebe Eccles: 16:33-16:36 so then i then i thought i'm no longer going to make jokes i'm just going to write Phoebe Eccles: 16:37-16:40 serious experimental poetry it's going to be Phoebe Eccles: 16:40-16:41 hard Phoebe Eccles: 16:41-16:44 to listen to but um i like i like listening to Phoebe Eccles: 16:44-16:48 poetry I really like going to readings well I should probably go more but whenever I go and I Phoebe Eccles: 16:49-16:53 hear a great poet I went to one just last week and I was like this poetry is amazing and to listen to Phoebe Eccles: 16:53-16:59 it is it is a different experience and it's it can be really lovely but no I've never recorded Phoebe Eccles: 16:59-17:01 my poetry before and I think Phoebe Eccles: 17:01-17:02 watching Phoebe Eccles: 17:02-17:06 it go from the earlier drafts of Dog FM or the earlier drafts Phoebe Eccles: 17:06-17:07 of the poems to what it is now is Phoebe Eccles: 17:07-17:08 is Phoebe Eccles: 17:08-17:11 really nice because we worked quite a lot on how I'd read the Phoebe Eccles: 17:11-17:15 poems and um and I guess maybe I'd read poems differently for a different project but Phoebe Eccles: 17:15-17:16 or Phoebe Eccles: 17:16-17:16 if it Phoebe Eccles: 17:16-17:21 was without the sounds but I think the way we read the yeah the way we figured out how I would read Phoebe Eccles: 17:21-17:24 the poems I very much like figured that out with Ollie um with Phoebe Eccles: 17:24-17:25 yeah Phoebe Eccles: 17:25-17:27 it was quite a specific process Phoebe Eccles: 17:27-17:31 yeah it wasn't it wasn't immediately obvious how to do that Phoebe Eccles: 17:31-17:32 in Phoebe Eccles: 17:32-17:33 a way that worked and Oliver Chapman: 17:33-17:34 yeah I think Oliver Chapman: 17:34-17:37 we ended up being quite conversational and Oliver Chapman: 17:37-17:38 I Oliver Chapman: 17:38-17:40 think somebody used the word unambitious which I think Oliver Chapman: 17:40-17:42 is a nice way of putting it like it Oliver Chapman: 17:42-17:43 it Oliver Chapman: 17:43-17:46 didn't add too much I think poetry voice can sometimes feel Oliver Chapman: 17:46-17:50 like it's adding more weight and meaning than it needs to and I think Oliver Chapman: 17:50-17:51 yeah Oliver Chapman: 17:51-17:52 your your delivery is Oliver Chapman: 17:52-17:54 really natural certainly to your voice and Oliver Chapman: 17:54-17:56 yeah yeah Oliver Chapman: 17:56-17:57 I think Phoebe Eccles: 17:57-17:58 the poem doesn't want to sound too Phoebe Eccles: 17:58-18:01 sure of itself because it isn't sure of itself and you don't you know like I don't know what Phoebe Eccles: 18:01-18:06 the poems mean and I don't I don't want to sound like I know what the poems mean I think they want Phoebe Eccles: 18:06-18:12 to be in this space that is uncertain and is sort of clambering along with the other noises so also Phoebe Eccles: 18:12-18:16 yeah at one point we were like we need to I wanted yeah we wanted to turn my voice down because you Phoebe Eccles: 18:16-18:20 didn't want it to be like here now listen to this word it wanted to be something that you could Phoebe Eccles: 18:21-18:24 yeah because when you're listening to poetry you're not following completely you're sometimes Phoebe Eccles: 18:24-18:26 drifting in and out as well and Oliver Chapman: 18:26-18:28 the sound is important isn't it just as just as much as the Oliver Chapman: 18:28-18:31 kind of the meaning of the words just the sound of it yeah yeah Phoebe Eccles: 18:31-18:32 absolutely yeah Oliver Chapman: 18:32-18:32 yeah 18:39-18:39 When Phoebe Eccles: 18:39-18:41 the moon exploded, Phoebe Eccles: 18:41-18:42 only Phoebe Eccles: 18:42-18:45 a tiny chunk of it landed on the earth. Phoebe Eccles: 18:46-18:51 Big enough still to be crane lifted and then carefully lowered into the tased turbine hall Phoebe Eccles: 18:51-18:56 where it hung from the ceiling for a month or two, growing weird sporish things like Phoebe Eccles: 18:56-18:57 hairs on her chin. Phoebe Eccles: 18:58-19:03 No, they were more like tentacles, the way they snaked muscular through the air, following Phoebe Eccles: 19:03-19:04 visitors, Phoebe Eccles: 19:04-19:05 blinking Phoebe Eccles: 19:05-19:05 at the rim. Phoebe Eccles: 19:06-19:10 You could actually feed these things, they would take whatever you gave them. Phoebe Eccles: 19:11-19:11 I Phoebe Eccles: 19:11-19:13 didn't get to see the exhibition. Phoebe Eccles: 19:14-19:16 My days were busy with shifts at the cafe. Phoebe Eccles: 19:17-19:20 The quiet winter hours were perfect for deep cleaning the toilets. Phoebe Eccles: 19:21-19:23 The walls had turned streaky grey by the hand dryer. Phoebe Eccles: 19:25-19:32 I admit I was ashamed associating as I did hospitality with oversharing. Phoebe Eccles: 19:33-19:34 Some Phoebe Eccles: 19:34-19:36 years ago, and this has always haunted me, Phoebe Eccles: 19:37-19:39 I held the hands of a politician over the counter Phoebe Eccles: 19:40-19:42 and we had sobbed at our respective losses. 19:45-19:45 Yeah, Adam Cecil: 19:45-19:46 I mean, I love that approach. Adam Cecil: 19:47-19:49 I mean, because also there's a real intimacy to that, Adam Cecil: 19:50-19:52 to the way that you read it Adam Cecil: 19:52-19:57 and also the way that it's all kind of wrapped up in the sound, in the soundscape as well, Adam Cecil: 19:58-19:59 which is really interesting to me. Adam Cecil: 19:59-20:00 I Adam Cecil: 20:00-20:02 mean, so I'm curious, I mean, like you're talking a little bit Adam Cecil: 20:02-20:08 about the recording, and kind of how you, you know, were composing as you were recording, Adam Cecil: 20:08-20:15 but like, what did that composition process really look like in terms of, you know, how did Adam Cecil: 20:15-20:20 you approach what you were creating? I mean, I was super interested in just like kind of the layering Adam Cecil: 20:20-20:24 and the collaging of like the music and the poetry and the sounds and then like the field recordings Adam Cecil: 20:24-20:29 and kind of the way you move between all those different things so i'm curious kind of just Adam Cecil: 20:29-20:31 yeah what that process looked like for you Oliver Chapman: 20:31-20:33 the piece is kind of made up of all these different Oliver Chapman: 20:34-20:39 scenes and they feel quite distinct from each other um and they're kind of Oliver Chapman: 20:39-20:40 uh glued Oliver Chapman: 20:40-20:41 together by Oliver Chapman: 20:42-20:42 you Oliver Chapman: 20:42-20:47 know returning to the car and the dog and the family uh but Oliver Chapman: 20:47-20:48 in Oliver Chapman: 20:48-20:48 amongst that Oliver Chapman: 20:48-20:49 i Oliver Chapman: 20:49-20:50 guess at Oliver Chapman: 20:50-20:59 they were quite disparate pieces that I'd made. It was a really slow process. I think it's even Oliver Chapman: 20:59-21:05 hard to kind of remember recall exactly how it went but it just felt like slowly sculpting Oliver Chapman: 21:05-21:11 something. I guess with anything like that, that abstract especially, starting is the hardest point Oliver Chapman: 21:11-21:14 and just finding something that you connect with. Oliver Chapman: 21:15-21:15 Yeah Oliver Chapman: 21:15-21:18 I guess it was just a case of lots of trial Oliver Chapman: 21:18-21:23 and error and lots i guess it's again when you're working with something that abstract a lot of it's Oliver Chapman: 21:23-21:28 quite instinctual which is why i really enjoyed it i'm my background in music is songwriting Oliver Chapman: 21:29-21:33 so i was doing something completely new and i think instead of thinking about the structure Oliver Chapman: 21:33-21:38 of a song i was kind of thinking about the overall arc in terms of your kind of experience of Oliver Chapman: 21:39-21:45 listening to these kind of mini scenes or the overall piece all together and i guess i was Oliver Chapman: 21:45-21:51 thinking about stuff in terms of like space in terms of the how airy or dense it was like light Oliver Chapman: 21:51-21:56 light and dark how things were contrasted with each other from scene to scene or even within Oliver Chapman: 21:57-22:02 within the same scene i i was i only could kind of conceptualize it retrospectively Oliver Chapman: 22:02-22:03 at Oliver Chapman: 22:03-22:04 the time Oliver Chapman: 22:04-22:05 it's really based on Oliver Chapman: 22:05-22:07 just Oliver Chapman: 22:07-22:11 the feel for the for the piece and i think that meant taking a lot of time Oliver Chapman: 22:11-22:16 in between making so maybe making intensely for like two or three weeks then not touching it for Oliver Chapman: 22:16-22:19 a month or two and because you kind of need to Oliver Chapman: 22:19-22:20 walk Oliver Chapman: 22:20-22:22 away from it because it it does end up just Oliver Chapman: 22:22-22:24 sounding like a soupy mesh Oliver Chapman: 22:24-22:26 after Oliver Chapman: 22:26-22:28 a while um from Phoebe Eccles: 22:28-22:29 my side it seemed like you were really collecting Phoebe Eccles: 22:30-22:34 sounds as well that you would be like oh i've just been throwing some chairs across the hall Phoebe Eccles: 22:34-22:39 and that is making quite an interesting noise so that's nice but it'd be like hmm can hear some Phoebe Eccles: 22:40-22:43 water that seems it will he'd be like I'm really into bells at the moment so Phoebe Eccles: 22:43-22:48 if I not only was just like going around like finding weird noises or making Phoebe Eccles: 22:48-22:53 weird noises and and that was kind of fun yeah I mean from my perspective Oliver Chapman: 22:53-22:53 I Oliver Chapman: 22:53-22:55 will say that I Oliver Chapman: 22:55-22:56 never Oliver Chapman: 22:56-22:59 really got too stuck like it always felt really fun and Oliver Chapman: 23:00-23:05 like I took breaks but I think I was so kind of enthusiastic about the whole Oliver Chapman: 23:05-23:08 thing and that it never felt like Oliver Chapman: 23:08-23:09 i Oliver Chapman: 23:09-23:13 hit a dead end which was a you know you don't always get Oliver Chapman: 23:13-23:14 that when you're making something so Oliver Chapman: 23:14-23:15 was Oliver Chapman: 23:15-23:18 there a lot that ended up on the cutting room floor or did Oliver Chapman: 23:18-23:20 you i'm tough tough to Adam Cecil: 23:20-23:23 judge because you're collecting so many sounds Oliver Chapman: 23:23-23:24 oh definitely i mean Oliver Chapman: 23:24-23:27 i think i ended up sampling about 50 hours worth of material like Oliver Chapman: 23:27-23:28 um Oliver Chapman: 23:28-23:30 and it and it's funny when Oliver Chapman: 23:30-23:32 you're when i was making stuff i was like oh i Oliver Chapman: 23:32-23:33 i Oliver Chapman: 23:33-23:35 would kind of recall sounds i'd recorded and be Oliver Chapman: 23:35-23:40 you know I was like oh I need that sound and I would just kind of recall this you Oliver Chapman: 23:42-23:45 know different samples and and be able to kind of pick it out but it it's kind Oliver Chapman: 23:45-23:50 of the kind of process that as you're making it things become clear to you but Oliver Chapman: 23:50-23:52 what often happened is when I Oliver Chapman: 23:52-23:53 when Oliver Chapman: 23:53-23:55 I was recording I might think I was I would Oliver Chapman: 23:55-23:59 often think oh this would be great in the composition and then when I got to Oliver Chapman: 23:59-24:03 it it didn't feel that great and then often the recordings I wasn't that Oliver Chapman: 24:03-24:07 enthused by there was just something about it that felt Oliver Chapman: 24:07-24:08 right Oliver Chapman: 24:08-24:08 in the Oliver Chapman: 24:09-24:14 composition and the the dog recordings with my family being a good example I I Oliver Chapman: 24:14-24:15 didn't really understand Oliver Chapman: 24:15-24:17 at Oliver Chapman: 24:17-24:19 the time that they would make interesting Oliver Chapman: 24:20-24:20 recordings Oliver Chapman: 24:20-24:22 so Oliver Chapman: 24:22-24:25 yeah I was often like listening back where you're like oh wow Oliver Chapman: 24:26-24:28 I didn't realize that that's what I was capturing and that was cool Oliver Chapman: 24:28-24:29 now Oliver Chapman: 24:29-24:30 that Adam Cecil: 24:30-24:30 dog Adam Cecil: 24:30-24:31 Doug FM is out there. Adam Cecil: 24:31-24:33 I mean, how are you feeling about Adam Cecil: 24:33-24:34 maybe Adam Cecil: 24:34-24:35 retrospectively the whole project Adam Cecil: 24:35-24:39 and also the way that people have responded to it so far? Adam Cecil: 24:40-24:42 Is there anything that surprised you about that? 24:42-24:43 I Phoebe Eccles: 24:43-24:46 think I'm surprised that the people have been listening to it. Phoebe Eccles: 24:47-24:49 I was saying to Oli. Phoebe Eccles: 24:50-24:51 Doug music is in. Phoebe Eccles: 24:51-24:53 I'm surprised that we're even doing this right now. Phoebe Eccles: 24:54-24:55 Yeah, it's quite a niche project. Phoebe Eccles: 24:57-24:58 I Phoebe Eccles: 24:58-24:59 was complaining to Oli. Phoebe Eccles: 24:59-25:02 I was like, when I write, no one reads my poetry pamphlet, Phoebe Eccles: 25:02-25:05 but with this, people are listening, and it's really nice, though, as well. Phoebe Eccles: 25:05-25:10 And I think our actual launch of it, because we did a launch, Phoebe Eccles: 25:10-25:14 and I think that we surprised ourselves, because it felt like such a show. Phoebe Eccles: 25:15-25:18 Well, Ollie did lights, and I read the poems live. Oliver Chapman: 25:19-25:19 I did a little dance. Phoebe Eccles: 25:20-25:24 Ollie did a dance wearing a dog mask, and there was a smoke machine. Phoebe Eccles: 25:24-25:28 So I think that felt like a real, it felt really like we'd Phoebe Eccles: 25:28-25:29 created Phoebe Eccles: 25:29-25:32 a show, but we hadn't rehearsed or anything. Phoebe Eccles: 25:32-25:39 But I don't know, I think that felt like a kind of exciting experience to, and also like to have everyone be listening to it all in the same room. Oliver Chapman: 25:40-25:42 I think I've realised like just how weird it is. Oliver Chapman: 25:43-25:48 Like, you know, you normalise something when you work on it for hours and months. Oliver Chapman: 25:50-25:54 But I think a lot of the response had been, you know, that it sounds kind of Oliver Chapman: 25:54-25:55 bizarre Oliver Chapman: 25:55-25:58 and otherworldly. Oliver Chapman: 25:58-26:03 And I think a review said cryptic, which I think are all fair Oliver Chapman: 26:03-26:04 descriptions. Oliver Chapman: 26:06-26:08 And yeah, it's a strange piece. Oliver Chapman: 26:09-26:09 Yeah. Oliver Chapman: 26:09-26:13 But it also makes sense that it's got enough to kind of Oliver Chapman: 26:13-26:14 connect Oliver Chapman: 26:14-26:19 with in a kind of more concrete way, like Phoebe's poems, the speech. Oliver Chapman: 26:20-26:25 also just like i kind of now kind of see it as a whole world that we've created especially when Oliver Chapman: 26:25-26:27 we listen to it really loud in a room with other people um Oliver Chapman: 26:27-26:29 i Oliver Chapman: 26:29-26:30 i guess yeah again i was like Oliver Chapman: 26:31-26:36 really focused on small details for so long of it that i didn't really see the whole um until we Oliver Chapman: 26:37-26:40 you know until we've had a bit of space from it and and that it's been out in the world and Oliver Chapman: 26:40-26:41 yeah Oliver Chapman: 26:41-26:41 it's been Oliver Chapman: 26:41-26:43 it's Oliver Chapman: 26:43-26:46 been an experience so i really thought we would just release it Oliver Chapman: 26:46-26:50 into a quiet corner of band camp and it would that would be that but Oliver Chapman: 26:50-26:52 yeah Oliver Chapman: 26:52-26:52 it's done better Oliver Chapman: 26:52-26:59 than expected which is nice i have one non dog fm related question for you guys uh what is your Adam Cecil: 27:00-27:04 ideal late night vibe whoa Oliver Chapman: 27:04-27:07 vibe late night you have to go Phoebe Eccles: 27:07-27:08 first with me Phoebe Eccles: 27:11-27:11 i'm Phoebe Eccles: 27:11-27:13 a morning person you're Oliver Chapman: 27:13-27:14 a morning person 27:18-27:19 I've Phoebe Eccles: 27:19-27:23 got early starts in my day job so I'll probably be off to bed after this but Phoebe Eccles: 27:25-27:25 I Phoebe Eccles: 27:25-27:28 like quite a late night where this is going to be a boring answer because it doesn't involve Phoebe Eccles: 27:29-27:35 a party or anything but there was one time in my life where I was getting lots of writing and Phoebe Eccles: 27:35-27:36 reading done Phoebe Eccles: 27:36-27:36 and Phoebe Eccles: 27:36-27:40 I was totally nocturnal but I think I was somewhere where I had no friends Phoebe Eccles: 27:40-27:42 I was like there's no reason to I can't remember Phoebe Eccles: 27:42-27:43 exactly Phoebe Eccles: 27:43-27:47 where but there was about two weeks where Phoebe Eccles: 27:47-27:48 I was not tired for a while and Phoebe Eccles: 27:48-27:50 it Phoebe Eccles: 27:50-27:52 was nice everything felt very um Phoebe Eccles: 27:52-27:54 emotional Phoebe Eccles: 27:54-27:55 so I think Phoebe Eccles: 27:55-27:57 my ideal late night will be Phoebe Eccles: 27:57-27:57 I'm Phoebe Eccles: 27:57-27:58 feeling a bit lonely Phoebe Eccles: 27:58-28:00 I've Phoebe Eccles: 28:00-28:02 just read like something really good Phoebe Eccles: 28:02-28:05 maybe I'm listening to some kind of 28:07-28:07 ballad Oliver Chapman: 28:09-28:10 you're at home 28:11-28:12 yeah Phoebe Eccles: 28:12-28:13 but maybe my head's out the window Phoebe Eccles: 28:15-28:15 sniffing in that 28:16-28:16 oh Oliver Chapman: 28:16-28:17 yeah yeah Oliver Chapman: 28:17-28:18 nice 28:18-28:19 new Phoebe Eccles: 28:19-28:19 moon Oliver Chapman: 28:20-28:22 well I was actually Oliver Chapman: 28:22-28:23 I've been thinking about new Oliver Chapman: 28:24-28:26 projects and one of the ideas I had Oliver Chapman: 28:26-28:27 was to start recording Oliver Chapman: 28:29-28:30 in the night time Oliver Chapman: 28:30-28:31 walking through London Oliver Chapman: 28:32-28:34 and I do like a late night walk Oliver Chapman: 28:35-28:37 especially through london you go to bed Phoebe Eccles: 28:37-28:39 quite late i also go to Oliver Chapman: 28:39-28:39 bed quite late Oliver Chapman: 28:39-28:40 about Phoebe Eccles: 28:40-28:41 in the night time 28:43-28:43 yeah Oliver Chapman: 28:43-28:47 i don't i mean i think i like the idea of myself walking around london at Oliver Chapman: 28:47-28:50 night i don't know how often i actually do it but that Oliver Chapman: 28:50-28:51 doesn't mean that's not my vibe 28:51-28:52 a Phoebe Eccles: 28:52-28:54 late night cycle late night cycle is Oliver Chapman: 28:54-28:55 good as well oh yeah night Phoebe Eccles: 28:55-28:56 cycle yeah Oliver Chapman: 28:56-28:58 we both we can agree on that yeah Phoebe Eccles: 28:58-29:01 zipping through those quiet roads yeah lovely Phoebe Eccles: 29:01-29:09 yeah especially now it's summer ish no gloves no hands yeah no hands no gloves 29:11-29:13 yeah that's it oh Adam Cecil: 29:13-29:17 i love that well that's perfect uh well thank you both for for coming on to the Adam Cecil: 29:17-29:24 podcast really appreciate it and uh where so obviously dog fm is on uh on bandcamp but where Adam Cecil: 29:24-29:28 can people find you keep up with you and and your future projects oh Oliver Chapman: 29:28-29:29 i've Adam Cecil: 29:29-29:30 got an instagram Oliver Chapman: 29:30-29:30 yeah Phoebe Eccles: 29:30-29:31 i'm Phoebe Eccles: 29:31-29:31 Instagram I Oliver Chapman: 29:31-29:34 guess typing our names on Instagram we hate Phoebe Eccles: 29:34-29:36 Instagram oh well I don't know about you Oliver Chapman: 29:37-29:37 sorry I Phoebe Eccles: 29:37-29:40 hate Instagram oh yeah Instagram I Oliver Chapman: 29:40-29:41 have I love Instagram Oliver Chapman: 29:44-29:45 I'm Oliver Chapman: 29:45-29:49 new to it I only got it last year so I'm using it like it's 2010 you're Phoebe Eccles: 29:49-29:50 fresh Oliver Chapman: 29:50-29:54 yeah I'm fresh uh so yeah follow me for fresh content Phoebe Eccles: 29:55-29:58 DM me Phoebe Eccles: 29:58-30:00 why Phoebe Eccles: 30:00-30:00 not Phoebe Eccles: 30:01-30:01 Uh... 30:33-30:34 Thank you, Adam Cecil: 30:34-30:38 Oliver and Phoebe, for joining me this evening on the Nightwater Podcast. Adam Cecil: 30:38-30:42 If you want to listen to Dog FM, the whole dang thing, Adam Cecil: 30:42-30:43 you Adam Cecil: 30:43-30:44 can find it on Bandcamp. Adam Cecil: 30:45-30:48 Just head to penultimatepress.bandcamp.com. Adam Cecil: 30:49-30:53 Also, I'll throw a link directly to Dog FM in the show notes as well. Adam Cecil: 30:53-30:57 It's also up on Apple Music and Spotify now. Adam Cecil: 30:57-31:01 Just search Dog FM on either one of those or check the show notes. Adam Cecil: 31:02-31:07 Also in the show notes, links to follow Oliver and Phoebe on Instagram. Adam Cecil: 31:07-31:11 Oliver is at Laguna Beach, but the third A is a four. Adam Cecil: 31:11-31:13 A little bit of a logic puzzle there. Adam Cecil: 31:13-31:14 See if you can figure it out. Adam Cecil: 31:14-31:18 And Phoebe is at Phoebe underscore X E C C S. Adam Cecil: 31:19-31:20 My name is Adam Cecil. Adam Cecil: 31:21-31:27 you can find me at fakeadamceasel on Blue Sky. I write Nightwater, a niche culture newsletter. Adam Cecil: 31:27-31:32 Maybe you've heard of it. You can find that at nightwater.email. Subscribe for free today or Adam Cecil: 31:32-31:37 become a paying Day Soda subscriber to help support me buying more great field recordings Adam Cecil: 31:37-31:43 over on Bandcamp. You can also find Nightwater on social media. It's on bluesky at nightwater.email, Adam Cecil: 31:43-31:49 very easy. And on Instagram slash threads, it's at nightwatermemes. Links to those in the show Adam Cecil: 31:49-31:55 notes along with everything else. Until next time, may your night water be cold and your newsletters Adam Cecil: 31:55-31:56 refreshing.