Vacations to Chernobyl and Black Mirror

news news. Um you guys, you put this so blind item from our problematic fave Crazy Days and Nights about Okay? Should I just read this? Um? Okay? The foreign born former A List syndicated actress turned A List celebrity has an encryption key that was given to her by the foreign born infamous celebrity. It will only work upon his death. I'm not sure I would want to be the one

who had that key. I wonder if he disappeared for several days and couldn't contact anyone, if that would trigger it to uh So, this is about Pamela Anderson and Juliana sand Allegedly, I take issue. By the way, I really think Pamela Anderson an apologies to Pamela Anderson. I think she is B list. I do not think she is a list. She's a list name record they said, they said a list syndicated. Okay, that's it. I really feel like she she was a for a long time. I think we have to but this is now she

is a Sange's That's what's so weird. I mean, just the whole Pamil and Anderson Julian Assange weird romance. You want to call it, I wouldn't want to call. Does anybody know the full story about their relationship? Nobody knows. That's what makes a mysterious. They were just at a party together, you know, and the um what was at the at the embassy. Uh, it's so cyberpunk. They met in weird rich people circles, which is how all these

people know each other. But the idea they met in like the spa from um from Sexy Beasts, like the idea that pam Anderson has some kind of like a doomsday key to anything. Oh my god, it's a it's a very twenty nineteen. Yeah, we can't help but stand I'm afraid. I can't stand it. You got Oh, it's bad.

I don't approve of her relationship with Julian Assange, but I've been I've been forced to clarify several times that he is probably a rapist, but he also is maybe being held for things that are just about releasing infoe.

All right. I hesitate to uh promote something by my partner slash Bouse on the podcast, but my husband David did a video years ago re enacting some friends of this filmmaker did a short that was basically a re enactment of the time that Julian Assange crashed in their house for like a month what was supposed to be like a week and then turned into like kept kept getting stretched out and stretched out and he basically like was doing work on their couch and just like was

filthy and like left food everywhere. I would like to see the crashing staring exactly. Well, that's basically what they made and starts David as Julia typecast. When you have cool white hair and you know a lot about stuffy and can just do like a totally blank affect on you, do you have a doomsday key to David? I know that's like the downside is that romantic? Is it romantic

to give someone the doomsdake tremendously better than trust? I think that that's like, that's like the great thing about being a celebrity, like on the order of a Pamela Anderson. Is it like sometimes you can just like find you can just trip and fall into a situation where you have a doomsday. It's just like her show was a v I P. Was that the one where she was a secret agent? Love that show, by the way, syndicated a list show. She played like a superspy on a

show that was on television late at night. UM for discerning viewers like me, it was a good show, talkings type jam. Yeah, it's just it makes sense. Yeah, speaking of the dystopian future present more celebrities from the past, celebrity dogs from the past, more like guys. I this came to us. I put this in the dock after it was posted in the Facebook group. So Barbara Streisand brought her three dogs who were cloned from her deceased dog, to the deceased dog's grave and shared a picture of

it on social media. Very odd, I mean, I think it's supposed to be heartwarming. It's amazing, but it is. It is weird. It's about what you would expect, a bunch of dogs that all look the same. Well, there's isn't there like a picture of the dead dogs on the grave. Yeah, it's like one of those grays that has a photo a little a little circle photo in it. Um. And then three triplet dogs sitting on to our sisters ones. Sorry, okay, okay, all right, And also we should name them because their

names are amazing. Scarlet, Violet and Fanny, who were cloned from Samantha. Samantha. You know what this is all preparing us for is that barber Ship has cloned herself. Clearly, I don't think she'd want to be no, so she could live on after she dies. Yeah. Um, well we'll link to this photo or put it in the show notes, which wink wink, you can get if you subscribe to our patreon. UM always always looking for an opportunity to plug that UM. Also in news this week, guys, First

of all, a meta comment about this um. Life Science is kind of like a bullshit website, right, it's in what way every time Molly or tests sends me a link from life Science. If I'm at a computer, I will like go and search the keywords from the news story to see if it's popped up on any other like science news website, and I would say, like one out of three times it does. Oh yeah, well, I mean it's kind of like the Live strong of science aggregator.

In fact, for a while I was kind of confusing them and being like, oh, it's weird to just go from like lemonade to help regulate your blood sugar to like outer space, and then it's like, no, there're two different websites that are largely aggregators. You know, don't don't dis the source of the moon minute news. That's true. Those things are true. They come from space dot com, another reputable science website that everybody trusts. If you work at Live Science or if you are if you work

at a content farm. I follow some of the science the content farm scientists at from Life science. Some of them are real, but they do. We're so used to like the content farm, like the values of a celebrity or entertainment driven content farm, because we worked places like that, but the science one is such a different game. It's like the moon must be the equivalent of the Kardashians. Um. Anyway,

this is not about the moon though. Um, this is about Bigfoot's FBI file turns out the government some hairs, that some hairs supposedly belonged to big Foot. That's why we read Life Science because it gives us the hard news. Um. But it shows you that the FBI took it seriously enough. I mean, they didn't throw out this. This guy like apparently just sent them some some Bigfoot hairs, being like this, these are hairs that came from Bigfoot, and they didn't

throw them out. So they were like, what a coup. They were like, we must keep these in case Bigfoot kills again, which he obviously well kills again. They were dear hair is correct. It was not able to compare the hair with that of any known creature on this continent I'm reading here. Unfortunately, for Bigfoot hunters, the results weren't what they may have hoped. In seven, the lab

examined the fifteen hairs. A final letter from Cochrane, addressed to Howard S. Curtis, Executive Vice president of the a a S, read like this, Dear Mr Curtis, the hair is which you recently delivered to the FBI laboratory on behalf of the Bigfoot Information Center and exhibition have been examined by transmitted incident light microscopy. Okay. Also, the hairs were compared directly with hairs of known origin under a comparison microscope. It was concluded as a result of these

examinations that the hairs are of dear family origin. The hair example you submiss being returned. So for for most of the article they were like the FBI, I was taking it very seriously with these big foots. That's the problem with life science. Though they buried the lead. Um, but yeah, they had that science in there at the end. Um. The letter really reads like a rejection letter from like a literary magazine. That what they would say, right right, okay, Okay.

Chloy is nodding his head because he agrees they are trying to cover up dear family origin. I mean, hey, if Bigfoot were a giant like you know, bear crossed with and ape crossed to the deer, you know, it would make sense he wants to have the like the slick short hair so it can easily wick away moisture, doesn't show him down. Yeah, there's probably different types of fur for different biomas. Speaking of biomas, Yeah, so the world has Chernobyl fever right now. UM, I feel like

we have not gotten into that. I was talking, I was talking to you guys last week, and I was like, I want to watch Chernobyl. Everybody says it's so great, but I'm just like not in the head space to watch a bunch of people puking from um from radiation poisoning. Oh you got the puke warning, because I was going to say, I watched the first one and I'm going to puke right now, just like anyone might do before they watched something about Chernobyl, like make a big old

plate of food and sit down to watch Ernom. You just can't do that, You can't. I did the first time I watched Dexter, and I was like, really regretting it exactly. Oh yeah, you will. You would regret it even more. With Chernobyl. I had a really hard time.

I watched the first one, and I was telling Molly before we started recording that, as with anything that's been so heralded by critics, um, the last example of this being Horace and Pete, which, as everyone knows, you're right, yeah right, So I'm on the right side of history with that one. But it was hard because I was, like, everyone loves it, let's give it a shot. And I know that there have been a bunch of articles explaining why none of the actors are using Russian accents, um,

but I have a problem with it. I I it's like a mental block using British accents that will not use they and and it was a decision that makes sense because it came off as kind of cartoonish. It was distracting when they were trying the Russian accents. Or you could just have them have like regular Russian acts. I mean, you could have us Russian accented English. It just to me, it was like so so strange, and it took me out of it and I just couldn't

plow forth. I know that eventually that's the kind of thing that you get used to you. The finale apparently leans really heavy into the kind of Russia Gate. No. I haven't seen the finale yet, but your friend Sarah was saying that, and I could see how it would go that way. I mean, it's it's it's very it's like on the nose from them. Maybe we'll get to

it later at some point. The point is that a lot of people have been into Chernobyl, so much so that there is now an influx of tourism at Chernobyl, people planning exotic holidays to side of a giant Yeah, a side of a giant nuclear accident. Um. And we happened to know somebody who did go to Chernobyl as a tourist before it was cool, just before. She was a trendsetter before the show made it spike in popularity. And luckily she called it in with some a tale,

a tale from the ground. This is a I'm a film critic on an odal sense of the beloved back behind. And I'm going to tell you guys about the time I took a day told to share Noble. This was in two thousand and sixteen. It was two years after Ukraine had their one revolution where like open Hunka people got killed. And let me just start by giving like

the quickest most passionate shout out to visiting Kias. It's like if the city have to go, if you want to go to Chernoble and you have is the greatest pus I've ever been on planet, by the way, like you meet um right outside the squarer at the point of evolution was outside of a McDonald's. So I got in the two of us with a bunch of people and we drove a couple of hours out to tripat

to sharn Noble Wall that well that happens. And in our tour of us, the guy who was this like young teenager, really really really really lovely, always making these jokes like he would playing an animals in Chernoble when he would go you see that, Doug, I used to be a chat that's the sort of humor. And he was also playing stuff like the Shared Noble Diaries, that horror film in the van, Oh my god, you're driving snoble.

So he walks around it out with like this guy your counter kind of telling you wrote to stuff and he tells you like basically, try to keep off the dirt, try to walk on this cument. You're more or less fine. And the kind of beings shows you're on the tour, or like you go to villages where there's a couple of people still like stubborn by living in the woods.

You go to this river where like the catfish in the river which just drinking agin huge and my friends I went with my best friend Eva Anderson, and she has to bring all the bars. She was like feeding the nuclear catfish ranola bars and they're just sucking, fighting and killing for it um. And then you kind of realize as you're going through that, Yeah, like the true horror of cher Noble, isn't that a bunch of people did in the explosion, which, to be honest, I kind

of dumb. I always thought that's how it was until I was actually there, and you kind of getting annoyed a little bit because there's all these artful stagings where photographs. Either you go to like the old kindergarten and there's all these bump beds and like artful blackened daity dolls left on these bump beds, and you're like, actually, kids didn't really sleep here. Honestly, it didn't really happen because

the explosion happened before the town took off. You're a little bit like, al right, guys, you know, and it's very instagram summer, but they just kind of letting, like in the old schools and the old buildings of Pripyat, where you're like, I walked into a gym and there are all these glass bricks in the gymnasium and trip yet that was destroyed and to get the picture of his glass bricks, I climbed through like a broken shot.

I guess my question to you the night called listeners is what is the weirdest place that you have been? And secondary what'd you go back? I'm gonna say that really quick. Kazakhstan, I don't know Romans to be seen. I would buy an apartment there for to die. Okay, where do I go? WHOA? Amy? That was such a good night call. Thank you so us on a journey. Um, thank you so much, Amy for calling in. Amy's a great film critic. She has a couple of podcasts. She

hosts a podcast called Zoom. She also hosts a podcast called Unspoiled on Earwolves. So she's a she's a power podcaster. Um, but you're a great adventurer. Well she gets to go the thing about like she goes on all these really ex aotic um film festival trips, which is I think part of being uh like a freelance critic. Like I couldn't go to a lot of these places where they send you there and they like give you the trip and everything. But like Amy would always take him up

on it. I was always so jealous because I was like, man, that's like, so's such a cool way to see the world as by going to the film festivals of the world and like crazy out of the way places that you would never also goes places just not for film festivals. Oh yeah, for fun. She is the most adventurous person I've ever known, which is why it was not super surprising she went to Chernobyl. Can I just jump in really fast to remind you guys that I wrote about

the Chernobyl Diaries for grant Land. It was like I was nine months pregnant and they were like, go see the Chernobyl Diaries and I was like, okay. So it was horrible. It was totally bleak and boring and depressing and awful, and I was so nervous I was going to go into labor and that that would somehow I call her my child's whole life. But instead I was very overdue and my mom saw a raised her head

while she was pregnant with me. Oh, of course a monstol ran ron the film Um Anyway, so Amy wanted to know what were the most uh, I guess what's the word you would use disturbing. Maybe dystopian, Yeah, like maybe not exactly a place that feels like a Bucolic getaway. It's interesting what she was saying to that they staged the area to be stor what you imagine from just stupid. Like that's a little disappointing to me. Wait, but I want to know what's the what's the most dystopian or

weirdest place you guys have been and when you go back. Um, I've been to Pompeii. UM. I think though, actually like the most sort of intriguing place or that it was all during the same trip and long trip to Italy when I was in high school. Um is like the part of Rome that was like Muslini's neighborhood, like the super brutalist um like Italo futurist um neighborhood, where like all of them just have this total like it's I mean, it's like I feel, like I said this before, a

fascist architecture is like a problematic fave of mine. I like, I'm sorry, I can feel like brutalism. I was just talking about fascism is camp it is and I was just saying, like they this is so to make to take it really serious for a second. But people staging like fun influence or photos or whatever in a place that was like destroyed by something really fucked up or like had something really fucked up happened. It feels like

we're so beyond the pale with that already. You know, like it's going to happen anyway, and that's like if it helps bring tourism back to this area that's been so fucked over. But I don't know how tourism is, well, yeah, what what the doctor orders. But but the thing about the a you are, which is the neighborhood and the Oscars of Rome, is like it's just a normal neighborhood.

It's just like the most bizarre landscape to put like, I mean, it still has like you know, people have like laundry lines hanging out their windows, and it's just like normal, except all the buildings look like they were rendered in a computer. Um so this is a really weird clash of textures and stuff that I think is like kind of that's how I feel about those weird condo blocks they put everywhere here. Now, I'm just like, oh, fascist brutalism, fascist twee brutalism, and like the paint will

wear off and then it'll just be brutalism. Can I tell you the worst place I've ever been? Worst? I think I've talked about this before is Onion Town. Yeah, it's in Duchess County, I think, um New York. And it is a community of people who are very hostile to outsiders. So it's like the place from making a murderer. It's like, yes, but then there was there was someone went in and took a video driving through Onion Town and then visitors were attacked and stuff that I grew

up not far. Yeah, that was the scariest place and I would never go back because also because like I don't want to. I feel bad for them. I don't want to get in a chainsaw maska an Onion Town Chainsaw massacre. I thought you were talking about that place. That town like about an hour outside of l A. That like smells horrible, but it's where all the onions come from. Oh, I don't know about that. What it's on the in the five I'm forgetting. I'm blanking on

the name. But it's like by Los Banos. It's like it smells terrible. It smells like cou shit like that. Oh yeah, Molly, what was your terrible place? My it's not terrible. I mean it is terrible, but it's also like interesting weird. Uh. Which is jazz Land, which I also I think wrote about for Grantland once. It was

where they filmed Jurassic World. But it's an abandoned six flags in New Orleans that got destroyed by Hurricane Katrina and then just went back to nature, so it's totally just a swa ump now and it is really it's like sort of the things you see in the Churnable pictures. It's like a giant fire stroll with like you know,

vines growing all over it. Um. But they started using it for filming because they filmed so uch stuff in Louisiana now and they, I guess make it possible to film there, but it still seems terrifying to me because it's literally covered in snakes and alligators. You know. Yeah, the abandoned theme park thing is like good, like the Spree Park in Berlin. Yeah, there was like also on a list. We talked about the dome homes last week.

That was like on a list, But I found that on a list that also had the Spree Park on it because it's like it's like beautiful doctor and it's like and like also it got shut down because the owners like tried to smuggle like some insane amount of cocaine into Germany or it's like one of these insane stories. I think things like that. It gives you a glimpse

of the post human future. And that's why it's not just depressing, because you're like, oh, actually, like things grew back here and uh yeah, the six flags yesterday here in Los Angeles almost fire um is suddenly very very hot. It became likerees, can I tell you guys briefly about a Chernobyl conspiracy that I learned about from Amy who

learned about it from the film festival. So there's a thing in the Chernobyl area in the city that I can't say the name of correctly that is like a giant radio transmitter in the you know water body of water um that was supposed to either send out or block like secret radio signals for the Russians um. And it's called the Russian Woodpecker by everybody who I don't know if that was the nickname they were given or

if it's a colloquialism. But there is a conpiracy theory among the Ukrainians who live around Chernoble, and there's a documentary about it called the Russian Woodpecker, where the conspirec is basically that the Russians, like did did the Chernobyl meltdown on purpose in order to cover up that the Russian woodpecker was not working correctly or had not worked. Can I briefly say that? So this was is technically

called the Douga or Doja radar. It was called the Russian woodpecker because it would interrupt radio broadcast with a tap, a loud tapping noise that sounded like a woodpecker, and so it interrupted like all sorts of different kinds of radio broadcast broadcasts. So people were just kind of random lease since just subjected to this tap tap tap tap tap. And so when they started talking about it, they started coming up with conspiracy theories about what it could bend. Control.

Weather Control supposed a picture of it too. It is like this giant, sort of weird monolith in the water. It's very weird looking. It looks like a total alien structure. Um the documentary the theory is not true. It's sort of a nine eleven conspiracy parallel. It's like it's it's

like a Chernobyl was an inside job conspiracy. It's turn was an inside job so that the Russians could sunk over the Ukrainians because they don't care about the Ukrainians and they needed someone to blame for the thing not working. But the documentary, which I haven't seen yet but Amy said,

is great. Apparently it's just really interesting because it follows a guy who believes this to be true, and it gets just into sort of the history of relations between Russia and the Ukraine and how fucked up it is. So they're like, the Ukrainians do have a lot of resentment towards the Russian government for like how they were treated, um, and there is a lot of weird, interesting stuff going on under the surface. Everybody flew to England this week,

flew to England. We didn't need to fly to England, but we still flew to England for old time's sake. For anyone who doesn't know why we say that, it's because when we talked about Black Mirror many years ago, was not available to be wanting in the US before to go on a Russian UH satellite service. She used to fly to England, but now we just reminisce about our flights to England and watch it in the US. Um. But you old Netflix. We love Netflix so much. All

hail our leader netflce um. But yeah, I mean, I feel like I wanted to talk about these new episodes with you guys because for old times sake, because we always used to talk about Black Mirror and the hoodies days. Also because I think that these are pretty good. I think we all do love that. Yeah, I've been kind of out on on the Netflix era of Black Mirrors. I didn't even watch Bandersnatch, just because I don't know, it just felt like such a stunt and I just I did not see how I was going to have

a good time watching it. Um. I think that a lot of the I feel like a lot of the Netflix once have been kind of a like they've felt

like fan fiction. Like, Yeah, I've just been a little bit out on the Netflix are was with a couple of exceptions, but a lot of them kind of just felt like kind of rushed fan fick or like a kind of not as interesting idea of of of what Black Mirror ought to be or at least what it was for those first two um UK only seasons, and like I don't know, I was not a fan of stuff like nose Dive or it's just like gods were so sucked into the rating system on everything would have

the rating system was all of society. The show can do that kind of maximalism, like let's blow up like one one aspect of modern living and imagine if it was like truly everything, like fifteen million merrits. The one with the bikes is one of my favorite Black Mirrors, but I think that these I think the Black Mirror is best is sort of just like it's kind of like I was described as to somebody else, it's like

a can opener. Like black mirror is like a tool that like lets you access the discussion about something through fiction, you know, like which should be like all speculative fiction. But I think the Black Mirror tends to do it particularly well with like contemporary issues, and it's just become like cool to rag on it because or like make it like talk about it like it's more alarmost than it is um or really like a sign like a really schooldy tone to it that I don't think cool.

I don't understand people who are too cool for Black Mirror. Before we start talking about Black Mirror, we would like to issue a stern warning that if you have not watched the three new episodes that are available in Netflix now, please don't listen to this next segment until you have. There will be tons of very serious spoilers, and we don't want you to get mad at us. Thank you.

I've been super into almost all of the Black Mirrors, even the ones that I didn't like that much, and I really actually liked Nose Dive a lot, but I think Crocodial may have been like some of the really big ones have been hard to ones. It's just like punishing, like that's that's when people make fun of Black Mirror are thinking of those episodes, and I think those are

the least and it was good about these. It was like he was responding to the criticism and being like, I'm just gonna make like two of them are fun and one of them is not as fun, and it's probably the least good one. I well, we should say that first thought, there are three in this season because Bandersnatch took so much time and the three are Striking Vipers, um Smitherens and Rachel Jack and Ashley two, which we briefly talked about last week because Molly had seen it. Um,

we've all seen it. I did not like smith Reens, which I believe was also the longest one, and it is very yeah, and the only one of the only Black Mirrors, if not the only one that was not

set in the present or very near future. Instead it was set one year in the past, and it had instead of kind of being in this like weird geo, you know, geographic location that doesn't quite exist and seems like you threw a bunch of places in a blender, it was set in London, um, and I I felt like that was more on the kind of preachy, Like it was preachy. It's kind of like a p s A about don't text nder see, but had it that way at all. I have to say the performance by

Andrew Scott was good. Ended up enjoying it. Yeah, it's a really incredible performance. My husband was comparing it to Andrew crenanen um in Versachi. He was like, it's just so like explosive and natural and like he has such a huge range in it. It's he really like drives it and propels it, so it's still really good. Yeah. I think the performance is what helps it for me, helps it not just be a p s A about not texting and driving because you don't you don't get

that's a bit of a spoiler. You don't realize that that's sort of like been the place where his life went off the rails until sort of late is that he was in a texting and driving accident and his fiance was killed in it. This guy who's holding an intern from a Twitter like company, like he's basically yeah,

he's holding a Twitter in turn a hostage. He's an Uber driver and he drives out to the country with this kid and is just holding the hostage until I can talk to Jack essentially played to for grace Um

on the phone. I think smitherens for me because of that, Like very it almost felt like a kind of palate cleanser, which is a weird thing to say, because it was like a very dark and kind of rough hour plus, but it felt like such a return back to like very contemporary concerns, like it wasn't this big, like what if we were all on stationary bikes that we had to bike on so that we could be on American I like, it was just such a simple idea, and I think it really reflected how people feel now about

technology and how they feel about people who have all the power that a person like a Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey have and that frustration and like kind of just feeling like this bug like under the foot of these tech giants. They just like have this all like enormous power they can wield. That felt incredibly real and human to me. So I liked it for that. Um, it is too long, but I thought that was really well done. Also another toe for Grace performance as a

shitty douche bag. You know, I was saying, like David Duke and Jack Dorsey and under the Silver late and and the silver like too. Yeah. Yeah, he's played He's played a lot of like just sort of hapless but awful people like I think Toper Grace brings such an

accessibility to his characters. Maybe that's why he that's what's horrifying about the performance, and is so like the moment where he's like look, I didn't like he just has the Zuckerberg line of like look, I just invented this in a dorm room, Like I didn't think it would be all this thing. It's totally under control, and it's like you want to feel like sorry for him for

a second, then you're like, shut up. It's just so hapless that he's like the last person that you would want in control of anything, and obviously like he feels overwhelmed. They look at it. They all look like what you guys, you could punch out. Yeah. Um, I have to say my favorite of the three episodes was Striking Vipers um, which is about two best friends or good friends I guess, who played video games together and then end up kind of in a romantic entanglement via virtual reality on a

Mortal Kombat type game. Yes, um, their avatars have sex, but then in real life they are not attracted to each other. And um, one of them, Anthony Mackie, has a wife and child and you know he feels very conflicted. Uh. I thought it was such a great portrayal of virtual relationships, um, and how those sometimes exist only on the virtual plane and don't transcend that at all. Uh. And I thought it was like a really nuanced handling of it. Yeah,

Anthony is so good she appreciate pain and gain. Oh yeah, taking everybody. And this was such a different kind of performance for him. It was so he's so believably depressed, you know, like I don't know he. I think this has been one that I have thought about more than most other Black Mirror episodes, even ones that I really like a lot, Like this one was really stuck in

my mind. And I think it's also funny. It's funny, and it's like, I want the I want the Mortal Kombat asked game where there's an option to just kiss like that please, I would like to play that. Um. But the response to it, like there's been like a totally like homophobic or like like gay panicky type response to have, Like oh when your friend says like you wanted game like and you freak out and it's that that that gift of like Jordan Peel sweating like that

kind of thing. It's just like that kind of ship. And I think like there have been some points made by people that it's like, why can't they just be gay together? Why does it have to do this thing that they like, I don't know that you fit into your you have like a hall pass or something for it but I don't know. I think it's such an interesting question of like, yeah, I thought it was about future sexuality. Yeah, it's like new it's a totally new things, right.

I was like, it's about people who can't even like they don't know how to ualify it because it's like not something that exists in real life at all. It was sort of like, I feel like you talked about this before on the show about how the Matrix, written by the Witch House kis sort of as an exploration of like identity in virtual reality. Uh, maybe more about how that affects identity in real life. This is just about like you can do whatever you want in virtual

reality but doesn't count well. I was talking with our l A producer Roy about this because he is a virtual reality person who knows a lot about it, and

he was like, I didn't know. I didn't feel like it was very realistic, And I thought my take on it was that it was a way to show relationships that forum online usually through pros like message boards, emails, but because there's no real way to show that dramatically or to like make that, you know, theatrical and interesting to watch, that, they decided to use VR like street fighting games, because that's you know, that's kind of like

a more theatrical presentation of just how relationships form in this kind of like disembodied world. Yeah, and it can't be them because it's not that you're they're even attracted to each other physically. It's like, but if you kissed

an Immortal Kombat game, yeah, yeah, I mean yeah. And it reminds me of people I know have like had like you know, long distance flirtations or something with something that they only email with, that they only the only text with or or or face time with or whatever, and like how there's always something different about it when you're in person, and sometimes that's it's still there and sometimes it's not. And it's like like this is just

like a heightened version of that. It's like the heightened intimacy of talking to people online, which can totally be false. Also you feel like you know somebody from interacting online,

but you don't. Well, I think that I would say that this kind of posits that it's not false, but that it's different, like that they're you know, personas are no less real, but that they just don't exist in a physical sense, and that a person can have an avatar that is them but nothing like their physical because and the enjoyment is totally real. Yeah, and it and

it doesn't condemn it. That's what also made it good if not it didn't at the end to be like everybody fucked up and it's a terrible person and horrible things are going to happen to them, which is what you expect from a black mirror sometimes. Uh, it sort of had like a happy ending where well, it just says that you're allowed to have both lives, that that both your online life and your real life can be

can can coexist if you balance them. Well, the question is, you know, either like if you completely block it out, then are you denying yourself pleasure? But if you completely commit to being online all the time, then you know, can you really be happy? And so if you can find a balance, which is like obviously a real issue that we all kind of face, it's impossible to find. But if you can, is it possible to have people kind of accept that as as a healthy choice for lifestyle.

I think the one reason it kind of I thought at the end was a little bit tragic. It's just because like both of them, at different points, you know, acknowledge the fact that they've never had anything that felt this good, you know, and no relationship, no, you know, intimacy has ever felt as good as making out as Mortal Kombat characters. Um, but is that also like the cheating high Like is it just maybe but doing something taboo?

It's like people, because there was also it seemed like it was a little bit going into the like is it cheating to like pay a cam girl or whatever? You know? Yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's interesting, that's all. I was. Good. Yeah, again, like I'm still thinking about this one. I think I think it's become like a punchline really quickly ever since it came out. But I think it's like one of the most kind of thought provoking. Well, it's also the best troll on

gamers the world. We love Charlie Brooker, uh, because it's perfect video games. He he's a total gamer. That's he was like, here's the subtext of all of the rest of every wrestling game, of course, and you know fighting game. The last one is is the one that we discussed briefly, the Rachel Jack and Ashley too, the the Miley Cyrus one, as it will probably be known more commonly. Um, this is probably my least favorite of the three of them, but I still thought it was like pretty silly and fun.

I didn't hate it. It was just like deeply silly. I loved it. You said it was like a show show Mega. Yeah, I mean all this, like all the hijinks of it and like driving around a car that looks like a mouse. So the rescue of your favorite pop star is like something that would happen on sailor Moon, you know. Yeah, and some of that stuff too. I was like, I feel like whenever we complained about like what if stranger things was just about like some girls

going on adventures, you know. I was like, oh, girls going on an adventure? Um, And I just feel like things are so depressing in the world, Like I was just expecting something so bad to happened. Oh, it was said there were many kind of avenues it could have. Was waiting for something horrible to happen, and then when it didn't, I totally was so happy and well. As soon as you see teenagers in technology together, especially in Black Mirror, you feel like you know where it's going.

But the tone is always it's like suspenseful suspenseful and and the fact that you know, artificial intelligence and like a pop star. I mean all of that kind of the free Brittany movement really being tied to this episode of Black Mirror and having the timing be kind of strange, say like do a free Britney shout out at a show or was that somebody else? Oh? Did she? I don't know, but I mean free Brittany. Free Brittany. For sure. We waffled on this, but now we can say now

that Brittaney's in the Free Brittaney movement. I think it was just like this is what I said to somebody because I was like, to me, it was a little bit like Sandypero, where it was like, maybe it is sort of like an escapist fantasy, but like that's what we need sometimes. You know, you only ever see like tragic lesbian relationships and TV shows. To have an episode where it like and happily, it just felt really good.

And then I felt the same way about this. I was like, you only ever see like the pop star like self destructing or horrible things happen, just to see them escape. It was like very cathartic and I mean nice.

I thought that I thought the part that I think the second half is where it gets like it just becomes like high camp for me, and it's like enjoyable, but also I kind of disengage a little bit the first half where she where Rachel has the UM has the Ashley to like you know, Amazon Echo type device, and it's feeding her all this you know positive you can do it um like if you believe in yourself type messaging and basically convinces her to enter this talent

show UM dancing to an Ashley Too song, which is of course disastrous. That I thought was interesting. I thought, like it's kind of taking empowerment rhetoric type thing and like turning that into like a personal advisor for you if you're a child, UM like embodying and that, which is like totally what those songs are. Ye I tell you what Hannah Montana was all songs like that. It's just so funny you can pitch shift a song and do a major a totally different song. So that's to me.

What also made it work so well is that it is a hit on a roll. Is the summer hit, the night Call summerhead. We should just say for anyone who didn't who missed this discussion last week or hasn't seen the episode, and also if you haven't seen these episodes, again, I apologize for spoiling. But this was Had like a hole by nine inch nails turned into I'm on a roll achieving my goal roll achieving. Doesn't it start up? I'm says. I think she says had like a hole

because I thought about it. I saw the episode early and then I like, I couldn't talk about it with anybody, and it was all I wanted to talk about, especially that specifics like but just like, I'm so like, it's the cadence of it is so off. It's so fun because it's like so ambition. Ever get what it takes a minute to realize what it is and then you're like, oh, you just make Ednie song in a major key. Um.

It is like a joke. I have heard about how you can turn any Christmas song into a Hanukkah song by putting it in my case music theory here on Nightcall. I mean I think that this one is like it was a good one to go out on just because it's like it feels like kind of the blockbuster of the three of them in a way like it's a

big adventure. Um I, but yeah, I I feel like maybe they need to go back to just doing three episodes watches, because like they had, they felt more considered all three of them instead of just being like, let's think of another like apocalyptic computer scenario, like they're all, they're all they all have their own sort of thing that they're working on and thinking about instead of like

what if you had to kill a baby? Like and striking vipers too was almost I mean, it was complex and also did a great job the Nicole Berry who played the wife, like, they also did a great job of making her very sympathetic. You felt for everybody in this situation. Um well that's and that's like the what's

it called the entire history of you. I thought that that that episode, like a classic Black Mirror episode, was you know, the first time we really could see the full potential of that of just like introducing a bad idea into a but like for a bunch of flawed people to mess with that we all ultimately feel sympathetic for in some way or another because we can see with all be right back. Yeah, yeah, I feel like some of them are like what if what if technology

is good well that I think. I think that's what they really great episodes all have in common. And I think it's a double edged black mirror. It's a doublegged exactly, yeah, exactly, But I mean I think striking Vipers they use the same VR technology across, you know, in the whole black mirror universe of like a temple sticker that you know, your eyes kind of cloud over and roll back in

your head, which is so scary. And then I think my issue with Smithens is that I think that gets across what technology does to people, for better or worse, so much more effectively than you know, a shot of people looking at their phones reading tragic news putting it away, which is, you know, it's true, the metaphor for the thing better than the exactly. I feel like the thing itself just seems like Brooker is really it's also filling

to show people on their phones. You're right, it's just like uncinematic and to show people it wouldn't be cooler if we put a little dart in our brain and then we just looked like totally passed out and and like halfway halfway did and halfway like ecstatic. It's just yes, Yeah, it's an interesting rain candy. Yeah, we should watch rain Candy another predict before it's time, Yeah, predictor. Thanks for

listening to Night Call. If you have any if you've had any strange journeys that you would like to tell us about, please give us a call at two four oh for six night Or if you had any interesting reactions to these new black mirrors or any black mirrors that you that we haven't discussed, let us know, give us a call. Also email us at Nightcall Podcast at gmail dot com, and you can follow us on social media Twitter as Nightcall Pod, Instagram, and Facebook or Nightcall Podcast,

and support us on Patreon. We're on Patreon and patreon dot com slash Nightcall First. A little as a dollar a month, you can get out access to show notes. You can subscribe to our book club podcast us, which we are recording the first one this week and it should be out by the time you hear this. I can't remember how dates work, but I think it'll be out by the time you hear this. We're our first

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really do appreciate everybody supporting the show. We are just and it's been such a good way to like hear from everybody, just you know, through people who have reached out to us on the Patreon and um, you know talking about you know, our newsletter that came out this month and um and all the other stuff that we've been doing in addition to the pot mix tape. The mix tape. Yeah, it's just been cool to hear from all you guys and find new ways to interact with you.

So it's been fun and we hope to keep doing it. We're on a roll. We're on a roll achieving our goals, keep goals. We'll see you all next week. Bye, she soo.