The Moon is Shrinking, Under the Silver Lake, and What Makes a Cult

Purple People Leader. Uh. Turns out we miscategorized the Purple People Leader, which is in fact not a crypt did but an alien. Um. Does anybody want to to discuss the difference between those two because I feel like that's another foggy one for me. Could they not be both? I thought Molly brought this correction to our attention, but I figured that a cryptid has to be an earthly beast. It is something that evolved on Earth that just like

humans don't know about. Maybe right, yeah, it's like an Earth alien, a thing that we think exists but we don't know if it does or not. Is the Earth angel an alien? Yeah? Cryptic? Although the cryptic can't be a human, so I'm assuming the Earth Angel is a human. And then we were kind of looking through there's a there's an list on the All of a r I

p The All I miss every day. I feel like The All and Gawker, both sites that don't really exist anymore, have a ton of really good like stay lists like this. I remember that Cocker did one that was like every good sandwich in every state, and they had voted and agreed on, you know, the definitive sandwich of every state. But the All has this one of the definitive secret scary monster of every state. Yeah, I just want to

clarify that. Well, I don't like fictional maps. A real sandwich map is cool as long as the sandwich is the focal point of the like a monster map like fiction. It's not a fictional map. It's grounded in reality. If it was like fake facts, I would hate that. Well, I have to say that on this list, um some of the more interesting, I mean, they're all really interesting, spooky scary monsters, but the kush Taka of a law and it's aware otter um. There's also the Mogollon monster.

I'm probably saying all of these wrong of Arizona, which is a stinky big foot. There are a lot of stinky big foots out there, and I think California's is the space brain, which is a I guess illuminated brain that has no body around it and has eyes. Someone spotted them on on the highway. Maybe the space brain. The Michigan dog man Um, which is a man's body and a dog's head. Also a Dave Pilky series of children's books that is very popular with kids called dog

man Um maybe based on that. And New Mexico Spring Heeled Jack, which looks the all says, looks like something in between Satan and Batman. Is that what Jumping Jack flashes about? I don't know. I've always wondered what that song is about. I don't really want to know. I like how it means monster in here is just coujo, right, Yeah, It's just a dog. It's just a big dog. There

are some classics. There are a couple of classics. There are a couple of um ones from the same squawk Uh anthology that I told you guys about last week or the week before. Um a few of them, you know, hail from there. But I think every state has a few cryptids and these are just kind of hand chosen

like best cryptids. Well, if you have a favorite cryptid in your state that is not mentioned on this list, or one that you think deserves special recognition, give us a night call at one two four oh four six night. We'd love to hear all about it. Always down to here about new cryptids. Also, if you've just seen a weird creature that you think may have been encrypted, please let us know. Um. I look at The Apologies, one

of our favorite podcast night call adjacent podcast Apologies. They have a Facebook group where people are always trying to identify like different bugs and stuff. Uh and I saw a ladybug larva on there today and realized I had seen them in the wild myself. But they are like the creepiest looking larva. They're like, I've seen a ladybug larva. What it looks. It's like a black and yellow, weavilish looking thing that has like kind of little spiky is

coming out of it. Thinking about larva, I love thinking about larva. Davy bugs alo juice with the larva. It's one of those um words that really sounds like what it means, Yes, exactly, also larval larval. Oh, it's cute. I don't know, it's like it would take a little dangerous to me. Maybe lady bugs are good. Yeah, we love ladybugs. And the larva apparently eat a fid, so if you see the larva around, that's a good thing. But I always was like those bugs. I don't like

those bugs, But now I'm coming around. I don't like their looks though, I'll be honest with you about that. They're they're they're definitely scarier looking. What if bugs are aliens? What if? I mean? I thought we agreed Octopus octopier our aliens, so why not incidentally wound up on Earth? Yeah? I read a few very debunked theory that there's people who believe that, like all all diseases come from space. Really don't let the antibactions hear about this, Like the

common cold came from a moon rock. Yeah, that's how it exists. Hey, speaking of the moon, Yes, let's let's have another moon minute. Um. Molly found an article explaining that the moon is shrinking, which is bad news. Right, Not only is the moon shrinking, you're germs, though, I guess that's true. If true, not only the Moon shrinking. The Moon is shrinking, and that is causing moonquakes. Isn't it weird that we can't see the Moon having an earthquake? Do you think if you just stared at it long

enough with a telescope, you could witness a moonquake. You can barely see an earthquake unless it's a big magnitude one on Earth, like unless it was one that caused massive geological restructuring. But I guess that these are aren't they it's causing like debris. I mean, you think that the craters would like kind of implode, and that if you had a good enough telescope you might be able to peep a moon quake. The subheading here ongoing shrinkage.

So why is it? Is it just shrinking because of gray? I'm gonna make a science guess. I don't know. We would have tectonic plates, like, oh yeah, so it doesn't have a molten core, it has fault lines. Here's what it says. It says this is definitely They found out that this is definitely happening because the Moon is shrinking, not from asteroid impact or activity deep inside the moon. It doesn't seem like they are even trying to address why the moon is shrinking. Clickbait, clickbait from what why

I did you guys enjoy the most recent full moon. No, because you couldn't see it here. I mean I enjoyed it. You can see it the night before. It's been a very misty and weird weather. It was raining, so I enjoyed that as much as I would have enjoyed the full moon. I don't give this rain a good rating. It was too I didn't feel like it was purposeful enough.

It was a little too misty. I've been getting these terrible headaches from the barometric pressure out here because it keeps like the humidity will increase and increase, and I think the pressure falls and it's it would be relieved by like a big raina monkey pod. And then I was like, I just wanted more. It needed to be amplified. It's unusual. It is um. In other moon news, you guys, we are now all aware that Posh Spice has been drinking full moon water, which is water that has been

charged um under a full moon. Obviously, you can make your own. You can also buy it on Etsy for it ranges. There's a big range in price for the moon water. Do you think that star fire water also charges the water under the moon or do you think these are two completely different, separate water theories. I think they're separate cosmological, separate water, cosmology, separate water cold. One is star bast and the other what is star fire water starfir And they sell it that one talked about

it earlier, the one that you yeah, yeah, I love it. Yeah, um wait, how much does the how much is the moon water or full moon water rather? I'm sure whatever posh strength. The posh spice website was, I believe in German, so I just read recaps of it, But then I went to Etsy to be like full moon water. Should I be selling full moon water? And should be our full Alex Jones. I don't think I could in good

conscience self full moon water. Also, it has what if we all like spitting it, Molly, we have a full separate Patreon for people who want water with our spitting it and for muk bang videos and even just saying those thing and the spit water together, I'm like, no, that's our regular patreons is well, don't tell them that's what's coming down the pipeline. They're going to be sell you the Pullman water if you want it, will take

a poll. Um. Well, she also well, she also is saying during her week long detox, she also listened to true crime podcasts. So do you do that during a d talk like a detox and true crime that's unwind from being a footballer's wife. A footballer's wife. I don't know. Listening to like a true crime podcast makes me feel worse than like eating a burger or whatever you might be cleansing yourself from. I don't know what. It's the guilty pleasure as long as you're not on a detox.

I think it's great to listen to true crime. But if you're on a detox, that should be detoxed from you. Well, what if the true crime stories in fact fictional and about a fictional conspiracy. Maybe we should talk about that after we plug our book club right well, speaking of our Patreon and ore and all the weird kinky ship we have going on there doing a book club, motherfucker's Actually we are reading like one of the most erotic odyssees of all time, kind of an erotic odyssey. Yeah.

We we just announced our first ever book club pick, which is going to be value of the dolls. We are very excited about it. I've never read it, so I'm super excited about that. How have you never read it? Emily? It blew my mind. I'm so excited. I'm gonna admit I've only skim read it at a bookstore. What I see? Do you guys that already read it? I think maybe you read me the dirty parts on the phone. That

was definitely I never maybe read the whole thing in context. Well, this will be a new journey in a new journey for one and a half of us. Uh. So we're very excited about it. We're excited to share it with you guys. We are going to be doing are dropping our first ever Patreon book club podcast for subscribers at the five dollar level and above um on June, so you have until then to get caught up and check

out the book. And also if you subscribe at that level, you can get a fiftent discount on the book at from our friends at Skylight Books in Los Angeles, but they'll ship it anywhere, and you can also just get it at your local library or somewhere chill like that. We love libraries. Audio books probably an audio book. Yeah sure. I'm also gonna say if you want to be like Georgia Stanza and just watch the movie and listen to the episodes, that's okay too, as long as you subscribe

to our Patreon exactly and before that episode drops. If you're reading the book and have any fun thoughts or feedback about it, that yeah, we might want to bring up on the show. Give us a night call or a night email and let us know your thoughts about the books. We can include it in the show. I'm very excited to talk about the nearly three hour long movie that Emily made us a watch, and apparently I am the only one who enjoyed. I kind I have

no idea how I feel about this movie. UM. I wanted to like foisted upon you guys so I could get your thoughts on it. UM. I saw the film we're discussing today Under the Silver Lake at cann just about a year ago, because can's going on now? It was it wasn't quite booed there, but it was like there were just like snickers of derision from all the French journalists there, and it was sort of perceived as

a flop out of the festival. And I was like, and we had already started the podcast by then, and I was like, there's maybe never been a film this night call it Can before, But also like I can't tell if I love it or hate it. But that's the problem. That's why I liked it, because the whole time I was like, what, I don't know how I feel about this movie at all. And I read that because of the very divided reaction it can that it was you know, the release was delayed. There was a

rumor that it was being re edited. But then I think that those rumors were false. Um, but yeah, Under the Silver Lake was written, produced, and directed by David Robert Mitchell, who did It follows, um, which I loved. I think we all like, this is the definition of a blank check movie. Though, to use a term from our our buddies at blank Check, it follows was such a excess and such a you know, such a breakout hit.

And if David Robert Mitchell ever gets a deep enough filmography that he'd be a good candidate for this for that podcast, because this is a textbook example of somebody just like allowed to make a three hour like meandering conspiracy epic about pop songs and underground caves for harems in Los Angeles. That's like also kind of an in cells slash reddit conspiracy theorist story. I don't know, it's

like a lot. It's like Q and on the movie. Yeah, I would say for me, this movie kind of lives and dies by the fact that it stars Andrew Garfield. And that was what did not work for me. You didn't like the garf doing a little joke. I wanted to make like, hey girl memes about him, remember girl memes that feel Yeah, this guy is like the real, like silver Lake guy that everybody's dated. He is everyone's Silver Lake ex boyfriend, of which did not make me

love him exactly. I liked him for embracing his I mean I I admired his performance, but yeah, he's like a really I mean, he literally smells bad smells the entire movie. He has a very like it's it's a very studied and unique way of walking and running and like holding himself even lying on the ground. That's like everything he does is very it's pointed, it is incredible. Then is so good. It's very close to like a Napoleon dynamite kind of thing, like a void of charisma,

which maybe is the point. That is the point. I will not pretend to know the intentions of this film from the creator, but I you feel pretty safe and sane that we're not supposed to like Andrew Garfield's character. Correct. Well, first of all, can we just say that there will be spoilers because I feel the need to spoil well, and it's time available on demand, you can you can

get it, you know, basically any platform. It was out theatrically for like all of two days before they dropped it on v o D. It's it's kind of the first ever A four fiasco, like, but they've kind of quietly swept it under the rud very watchable, I mean, like I watched The problem. Also that I watched a good movie first, right, Um, I saw The Farewell, which is yeah, which I'm sure we'll talk about more, but like,

which is an awesome, like great movie. And I was like crying from watching The Farewell because it was so good. And then I was like, and now time for like and then it was just like the Benny Hill theme song playing the whole time. I think it was probably also like narcissism of small differences. I was like I would write this movie, but like with yeah, you know, no, I'm like, I mean, I'm partially like defensive of this movie because I'm like, I kin't want to do something

like this. We better like some of this stuff. But it also it's a very it's a very funny, intentionally funny part. I mean, like from the from the part where there's like a really long dialogue scene during a sex scene exactly with him and Ricky lind Home. Like as soon as Ricky lind Home turned up, I was like, oh, like Southland Tills were in like south Land Tails Territory was just like some good comedians playing weird character roles. Also, there's a paddle boat chase which is awesome in the

paddle in the Echo Park Lake. That was yeah, I mean Patrick Fishler is really good in it. And that's a nod to like Mullholland Drive. I mean that's the other thing. So I finished the movie, which is I just like it's three hours long, but just to kind of sum up the plot, Andrew Garfield plays a guy who's very aimless and kind of like bottoming out, and

he's in his mid thirties. He lives in Silver Lake he's a he's a conspiracy theorist kind of, but he basically is he's also a voyeur man child like he's obsessed Kurt Cobain and Nintendo, Like he's just stuck in the stuff of his youth. So he becomes interested in a couple of mysteries that he thinks might be related that are going on in his apartment complex and his immediate neighborhood. One of the mysteries is the disappearance of a neighbor that he's been like maybe trying to romance.

And the other one is that all over Silver Lake someone's been graffiti ing Beware the Dog Killer, and apparently a lot of dogs are going missing and they think someone's like out, you know, killing the dogs. So he's kind of like just intrigued by these mysteries. Also, he has no job. He's like not trying to get a job. He's going to be evicted, his car was repossessed. He's just kind of falling apart and spending all of his

time like obsessing over these conspiracy theories. But then after you finish the movie, you can then go on an Easter egg hunt, and there are all of these crazy Easter eggs in the movie, which also kind of lead nowhere, which the movie. In the movie, everything kind of leads nowhere just gets you get deeper and deeper and deeper into trying to solve these mysteries, and then it just

doesn't really matter. That's the question. It's a movie about the pointlessness of easter eggs, Yes, it's I think it's a movie about the Internet, and that's kind of I was like, Oh, it's about how the Internet kind of like takes your drive away from like existing in your world as it appears to you, and it makes you feel as though everything has hidden in deeper levels and you go trying to like find what they are, but you just end up going like deeper and deeper into

your own kind of id and like become really disconnected with people around you. You also get really into low cool mystery would be on the case. Maybe this movie made me uncomfortable because it like read me to fill up a little bit too much too, you know. Or I was like, is it like I drive around aimlessly and like follow read people's weird flyers they post on things. Uh. I was walking around a Gripp's park today and I

was thinking about the movie, You're going to Find the Tunnel. Uh, all the tunnel stuff again, some of the stuff we were talking about last week with the Getty House and the you know, the gun cash, Like it's not not possible.

I mean, it's just it's interesting though, when you spend your time like reading and going deeper and deeper, and like I I also thought that the movie kind of you know, didn't really spend any time with him in front of a computer or searching on his phone, which is obviously what it was portraying, but not like the cinematic way to represent that and like put this sort of Hitchcock type score over it. So it's like, oh, it's a real adventure, but the actual reality of the

adventure for most of it is like pretty mundane. It's him, like you know, decoding things on the back of a pizza box and stuff like I wish he had just had the clamshell phone. Oh my god, well that was the I mean, that's one of the things that I think he's really good at. Um David Robert Mitchell is

just making making a place that's familiar seemed foreign. And we were talking right before we started recording with our producer Roy out in l A. And we were talking about It Follows, and I was like, what I loved about It Follows so much was that it created it kind of like took the past in the future and put them in a blender and then poured it onto a geographic location because it had all of these things that felt kind of retro and reminded you of your childhood,

but it definitely also was like kind of of the future. And then it was also you know a really like beautiful, like beautifully shock kind of way of looking at Detroit and it was beautiful. Yeah, it's really nice. The kind of self mythologizing it does. Like I feel like like he's so obviously just like a ship post like Philip Marlowe type character, and it's like like every generation gets the version of that character that it deserves, and like

this is the one that we get. It's like, you know, down to the like you know, looking at his his neighbors in various states of undress type thing. But it's just like the more depressing version of this time around, right, it's like vertigo depressing. Yeah, I think about him being just a bad psychopath from the beginning. Then yeah, sure, it makes sense. First of all, I think, and this is my theory, but I think he is supposed to be the dog Killer. But then also it's someone So

I went it deep into the subred reddit. It's like, well, the one thing to note about the reddit is that it's arted flourishing like weeks before this ever was released in the States, like off of a pirated copy from you like a teeny tiny UK release, and so it was already in full flower by the time it was released in the States. And it's just so funny because it's like it was already being passed around like this you know, forbidden thing like oh have you seen this?

Have you heard the good word? Like have you seen like? And like I was saying before it came out, I was like, man like, releasing it almost feels like defeating the power of the myth that it could have. Like I mean, there's you know, certainly some money to be made by releasing it on v O D and stuff, but it could become like this gigantic cult thing if you just never released, right, Yeah, I know, it should

have been like the movie that the that they don't want. Well, one thing that was cool was so there's a computer scientist guy who was a cryptography consultant on on this movie. And so there's there are all of these like ciphers to decode. So there are these dolls that represent um. It's that they're watching, yes, and there are dolls, and then underneath there's the Zodiac killer code which you can

crack UM. And then there's also like in a coffee shop in the beginning of the movie, there's a guy who's wearing like a weird hipster T shirt with UM animal decals on it, and if you take the first letter of each animal, it spells out be weird dog killer UM. And then there's something on like the ticker at the bottom of a news program that they're watching at one point and it's it's like it's about the

copial code UM. And so I guess the Kevin Knight who was the cryptography consultant like created a program to translate the copial side. It's just like you just keep going deeper and deeper into it. My husband got like on finding all the codes in a way that he hasn't since True Detective when he was like, what's Reddit, Oh my god, look at this, Like it's so many

theories it's a trap. Yeah, it's a trap. But then I mean if you try and like figure it out, then you feel like that's kind of like a interesting kind of like compliment to the movie of like you're just ignoring things that need to get done and just being like, what's it mean? Yeah, I think the one thing about this movie is it's not as weird as it thinks it is. Right, That's the thing is I think, like I did keep comparing it in my mind and

being tails it is legitimately weird. This feels a little bit too much like someone trying their hardest to like be weird. And naked middle aged women with birds is like a little bit of like what's weird? She was not hot, she was super hot, and then she had weird birds and then it was like that seems like a strange thing. Some of it just seemed like it

was like a David Lynch Bright tape. Yeah. Yeah, well, I feel like another thing that to the degree that there has been a conversation around this movie, but there has been just among critics and stuff, and people have seen it, but just the kind of like is it toxic masculinity or is it a critique of toxic masculinity. It's definitely a crazy it's critique. I mean, especially when Toford Grace's character who First of all, it's super weird

that almost none of these characters have names. And I'm sorry I got really jazzed about it, but I will say that when they have a drone and the drone is like, you know, peeping on like some lady undressing and they're kind of like just sitting there being losers looking at it was definitely to me and it's just like, oh God, what are we doing. You're supposed to feel gross,

like you're supposed to think they're gross. You're supposed to kind of acknowledge that they feel a little bit gross, but that they're going to continue to do it relentlessly. We have these people who were living across the street from us for a while and they crashed a drone into our like trash cans and then wrote us a letter being like, hey, can you return our drone? It was like in the back of your yard, right and

it fears to be crashed into your trash cans. And only later as I was like they were spying on us, Like to me, I was just like interesting, they took their drone for a little flight around the area and it's like, no, yeah, and they asked you to return it and I did and I did because I was just like, I don't want this drone here is put geo locator device on it so that you would know when it was nearby, so I could trash, I could out draw it down. That feels like a comedy or something.

Train a hawk up. Um well, I'm I'm glad that you guys watched this. I needed to bring it to the hive too, to the table. You needed to share it with the class, and I'm glad you did. I mean, I've seen it twice because I saw it at the festival and I saw it again before they released it and they were like, you know, trying to figure out what to do with it. I think it was before they kind of just dumped it, and uh yeah, I don't know, man, Like, like, I have a friend who

was who saw it. I mean, it's a friend you guys both know. But and I was like, oh God, is that guy me? Is that me? Have I been that guy all along? And I'm like no, Like I lived with that I was the roommate of that guy. Before like the kind of like like filmmaker who like has a sort of girlfriend slash friends with benefits who comes by and has been like doing background on Madman. So she comes by and like uh secretary costumes and stuff, and they just like get stoned and like maybe have sex.

And I have to like be listening in the closet next door see this, We'd rather watch the movie? Yeah exactly. Yeah, maybe it was very close to home. Again. I was just like, I, oh, too many of these locations, so they can't be like exotify in any way to me.

You know. Well. It's also I think a really good kind of commentary on how if you're living in l A. Every most people I know are very close to like you know, losing their homes, losing their cars, Like we've all kind of been there in the past ten years or so, but you still continue, like as long as you have that balcony that overlooks cool, even though you're

about to be evicted, it appears fine. You're going to the cemetery screenings, you're going to these like weird parties in and you can kind of pretend, yeah, you can kind of pretend that nothing terrible is happening, you know, and it can kind of stretch on seemingly forever, like they come to a victim, you back for another day, and then there you are the next day on the

balcony looking at the beautiful pool. So and I also shout out to Tomato Pie, which is like, I think, the best pizza on the East Side, even though it's very spicy pizza. Unexpectedly, uh love seeing Tomato Pie. I guess I feel like this movie was like it's just like of a touristy point of view, and it feels

like it was made by a tourist. And what was so good about it follows and it follows was such like felt like like I guess maybe I also just don't really know what Detroit looks like, so it was like, so you would be a tourist in Detroit. I means agree, I don't really feel like it feels touristy to me. I think like the kind of the particular like patina of patheticism that is nailed in this movie is like, I don't think you would get that if you were

just a tourist. I think you, like, maybe you're somebody who moved here from Ohio, or whatever. Here. I say here, like I'm there right now. Um, but it's a plant, but like, but like has definitely been there for a while enough for things to get me kind of sad. Um, And that feels that doesn't feel touristy to me anymore, because that just feels like a big part of the l a experience for a lot of people. Most people here are transplants anyway, Not true, not true that most

people are transplant not most people in Silver Lake. You would, I would venture, I guess, only because they pushed out all the people. I'm not saying it's good. I totally agree, but I think a lot of thirty year olds or thirty three years I think it's specifically thirty three. Yeah, I guess I just found him so boring. I was like, I wish the movie. I don't know. I liked the milieu, but I didn't. He was just so gross. Did you like when he got stuck to a car door handle? Um?

And it was like a Spider Man there was feeling. I mean, I guess it's interesting if you were making all the Spider Man movies and then you were like, I want to make the opposite of that, you know, definitely the opposite of far Away, because he was even like the likable guy in there was his breakout, always like a little he always played likable guys. So I guess it's just like, well, I don't know. I guess I just wanted somebody a little Nick Cagier, you know,

like the best Q and on movie National Treasure. Well, Night Call listeners, if you've seen Under the Silver Lake, if you have decoded every single code and Under the Silver Lake, if you have any thoughts, please give us a Nightcall at one to four oh four six night or night Email at Nightcall Podcast at gmail dot com. Do you guys want to take a night email? Yes,

so this email comes to us from Trevor. Trevor writes, hello, ladies of Night Call, the mention of pan psychism and the last edition of Night Call caught me dead in my tracks. You see, I studied for a year under Galen Strawson, the most famous pan psychist philosopher. He was a tall, deliberate man, but skinny and somewhat hunched like. He was unsure intendative about his presence in the world.

He had a larger than usual head, supporting an untamed fountain of long gray hairs that grew up and out in all directions and gave him the look of an old hermit on a mountaintop. His extures pondered the strange vicissitudes of life in the world, in his deep conviction that there surely was consciousness somewhere, but that it just wasn't anywhere he could locate it. The stuff of the world is mind stuff, he would say, to clarify that

anything has the capability of conscious energetic movement. Galen himself seemed to be a consciousness without memory experience. He would talk about forgetting having a wife and children, and often began statements with I'm sitting here, uh, before launching too into a thought, as though he was a floating consciousness trying to get into character as a person before doing

person things like making statements and talking with students. With this, I wholeheartedly recommend Galen's candidacy for the Night Call Museum, Peace Love for twenty from Austin Trevor Peace Love and four twenty you Trevor, thank you for for getting in touch. That was a really good, so evocative. Yeah, um, I feel like I I know Gaalen. I'm not familiar with Galen, and I wasn't even familiar with pants ychism before we talked about it last week, and then I had to

look it up afterwards. Um, do you guys have any professors that you had a special memories of? I mean nobody who was a pan psychist, I guess yeah, Unfortunately, no pan psychist. I there were two professors. One of them, UM was a literature professor who was super strange. UM. I took her class on She's the one who married poetry. No, that was a t A. Unshockingly, it was the t A. This woman was obsessed with UM King Arthur and she would kind of like vastly between talking about chivalric code.

And she she had lost like I think like two she lost a significant amount of weight, and so she would tie in her weight loss with like getting really into King Arthur and and I was like, wow, that's really interesting. But also she she was not a fan of my writing, so I eventually hated her. UM. And then there was a guy who taught a class on film architecture. Uh, and he was just super interesting. I think,

German guy, what does film architecture means? It was literally just buildings in film movie Yeah, it was one of the best classes ever. That's an amazing class. It was a lot of like The Last Man in Metropolis and Late Runner and like City Escapes. It was an awesome Yeah, you're just the colleges fun melloy, But like my my college was so full of environments and then I just made a film, like I didn't get to do all

the like newtly like fun weird electives people do. Um TuS and I both picked the college where you could do the Yes, but that was part of my my major because I was an art and architecture major. I was I wanted to do architecture for my first two years and then um I did like history of art and architecture and then pivoted to writing. And yeah, I have no idea who what was the best architect you studied? Don't ask me these questions, Okay, I'm already ragging my

brain for the architecture of psychism. My first couple of years, I went to loyal and Marymount and and the Loyal I think both all the Loyalist schools have really rigorous core requirements, like you have to take a certain amount of philosophy classes and theology classes. And stuff, and those actually ended up being probably my favorite classes, including film classes that I ever took. And did you talk about pan psychism and your philosophy class? She just looked out yesterday,

but we talked about that. That's where I learned about like the nose sphere and stuff. Oh yeah, pire R de Chardin was like like truly like mind breaking stuff and I learned it from like a jazz at Priests and so it was like kind of superd chill and and it was like in this pretty old building on the campus of Loyola, which like looks like a resort, and we were like just thinking about all being cells

in a brain someday. It's like it was great. Um he was He was by no means any any kind of character like this guy that that Trevor described, but it was a great class. Um. We recently on our Facebook page, Uh, this is kind of related because if we were in college now, I assume that we would all be really interested in neural networks, which I had.

I knew nothing about neural networks, knew nothing about him. Uh, but somebody on Facebook, Um, nightcaller Charlotte prompted a neural network with the prompt strange days and lonely nights, and got like a night call poem. Would you guys mind if I read it? Yes, please read it? Okay, it's so strange days and lonely nights. I was so proud that I was a woman. I had no idea that I could be happy. I couldn't seem to say goodbye to her. I was so proud that I was a woman.

I could tell the universe has changed. I'd rather have a friend than a partner. I'd rather have one and a partner than a husband. And then suddenly I was alone. It wasn't until later that I realized that these lonely nights and lonely nights were no fun, that I was no longer there, that I could hear her whispering in my ear. I'd rather live in the present, live our lives. But in order to make it there, I had to take off. But to feel so empty and alone, it seemed I had to go. And then I went away

to the desert. I left a big mess, and after a while I came back. It's like a very night collegue. It's so wonderful to post it on the Patreon site, Yeah show notes, Um, it's that's beautiful. I played around with this thing for a little while because they sent us the link for it. It's called talk to Transformer

dot com. That's the name of the neural network. UM. I only vaguely understand neural networks, Like it's just supposed to be like a simulation of how the brain works, but using like I guess, by scraping stuff off the internet, is that how they I think so, But it's I mean, it's like predictive text that has been like crowdsourced from

the Internet. I guess, yeah, so it's different. I always kind of do like enjoy those memes where they're like I like type I love and then just like do whatever the auto auto fill is and after that, and uh, I mean I never post them, but I always like seeing what my phone thinks, I would say, because it's

always a little bit spooky to see that version of yourself. Yeah, this kind of felt like this, but I guess more like I guess, sourcing from it a larger pool of information than just what you would put on your phone. I tried to make it do some Game of Thrones content, but it really felt like it was just grab being text from um well it even said it was like from screen rant or something. Um it like made a it basically made a um like automated content, like you

know that's the thing that actually happens like scraping. Yeah, s CEO scraping, but then like automatically like AI generated content, like the robots are taking away the content form jobs. But it became popular, right you did, like a Game of Thrones thing, and it got shared like a thousand But that's a no. It was just like in the text, it was like this has been shared. I was like, what does this mean? It's so we know. It was like like it just had all of the customary you

know text at the end of a blog posts. So funny. Do you guys remember there was a Clarissa that Explains it All episode where she like builds a program that writes poems and then wins a poetry contest with a poem that the robot wrote. I do not remember that. It's the best because it was like probably the first time anyone ever showed a girl like programming something. Also ethics and yeah yeah, and she like she tells everybody because she feels bad. There was a Wishbone episode that

unfolows the poetry assignment. That's a thing that I remember, but I think it wasn't. It didn't have any to do with computers. It was like I think it was a Syrano de berch Rack episodes. So he was like having somebody else write a poem for him. You were like, Wishbone delivered the Pentagon paper. That was very incredible, incredible coup. I wish Bone. You know what's a weird show, wish Have you ever gone back and watched YouTube videos of that?

It's kind of hard to pull. Children's programming is insane. All children's programming he's under it is we have one more night call. We wanted to gets you before we close out today. Coming to us from John. Here he is and Night Called. An episode sixty two, you talk to Penny Lane about her documentary Hail Satan and the challenge that the Satanic temple post is supposed supposed religious

freedom in the USA. I haven't seen the documentary, but the value of this film seemed pretty obvious from your discussion.

So here's my question. Years ago, I was a teaching assistant for a course Cults and New Religious Movements, taught by the late David Kinsley, who argued that the term cult should not be based on beliefs, since all religions seem to have some strange beliefs, at least to outsiders, but cults should just be reserved for groups based on behavior, how they treat people within the group, whether to let them have access to their families, have some measure of freedom,

something like that. Do you think this is true. Do you think behavior is the only measure of something being designated a cult or do you think there are some beliefs which are dangerous enough for that they ought to be designated as colts. Thanks so much for the podcast. It's amazing. Bye Um, great question. Yeah, thank you so much for the college. John. Yeah, this totally got me thinking, and we were thinking it was very appropriate for talking

about under the Silver Lake as well. I think at this point in history, especially like after you know, it's kind of wave of cult like activity, like in the sixties and seventies and stuff, that the kinds of things that seem to signify a cult and the kinds of things that cults believe in the way that cults address that kind of seemed to supersed like the actual mechanics of a cult, you know, like, um, I don't know, Like I I feel like this this is like a

good way to have some perspective on what actually as a cult or not, because you can have somebody that believes in crystals or energy healing or whatever like, but it's not going to be a cult because you're not like, you're not holding people against their will or making people pay you or whatever the case may be. But yeah,

I thought that was an interesting distinction to bring up. Yeah, but if you're using the crystals in a group, I mean, I think that there's the differentiation between you know, a cult that believes in terrible or ridiculous things versus just a group of people who believe in terrible or ridiculous things. You can condemn, you know, horrible beliefs across the board,

but without dictating other people's behavior. I don't think it's a cult, no, because well, unless the rules of the reddit were that you you know, had to pay a certain amount of your money to like who at the moderator, I mean, the basic rules of any kind of like website forum, I don't think our I mean, there's not a thing. I feel like there has to be some kind of addictive quality to a cult, like whether like

some kind of dependence or something. Let's talk about like Reddit conspiracy these so like if you start like it becomes like an addictive behavior, like an Internet addictive behavior where it's like you're placing going on the message board above, like interacting with human beings or like you if you show any doubt or wavering from whatever the conspiracy of the day is on the fore that you're like and then you're shamed by for it by your peers, as

opposed to just being like, oh, like that's an interesting way of thinking about it, or like I disagree, but what I you can go your own way that feels that feels cold, like for sure, I mean I don't know if that. I think there's a fine line where it becomes religious and not. I mean, honestly, more so than than people who have like Internet addictions or whatever. I think multi level marketing is the most non religious

cult like thing. Um, which also I today so now a week ago if you're listening to this, but um, Jane Murray posted on Twitter a link to an article in The Cut about side hustles like oh, you know, good ways to like make a buck and the last one was maybe you should join an MLM. It was yes, it was in the cut. I was so disappointed. Think they did have a little link at the end that was like just make sure you know what you're doing, and it was like you're going to lose all your friends.

But like a lot of the proposed solutions to making more money where like sell your hair, uh and stuff where you're like it would be nice with people have a job, very depressing. But um, if you really kind of look into the people who are super super involved with MLM, it's like the beliefs part of it, where you you know, they actually some of them really do believe that that what they're selling is good and everyone

needs it. But it's more the behavior that they're expected to follow in order to sell this product and the way that you know they kind of fit into like the greater scheme of things that it's problematic. It's like her life an example of that or something. Yes, yeah, and wrote in in fields and everyone can listen to

the dream. But um, yeah, there's there's a good Facebook group called sounds like MLM, but okay that you know, because Facebook is like obviously the vehicle where all of these people are are selling these things, um, and then you just tag that group and yeah, I mean it's so weird when you bring capitalism into it, because it's

like capitalism is basically a religion in our country. When I was going to say, like it's like heterosexuality a cult, like a lot of bad groups to people buy into, it's like true, I mean anything can be a cult almost definitely. Well, I guess it's also like I'm just always very skeptical of group activity. I'm always a little scared of like a crowd turning into a mob. Yeah you know, uh, bad direction. Yeah, there's just something about like losing yourself to the will of the group that

is inherently depersonalizing. And it can be good. It can be the best feeling in the world. It's why people do psychedelic drugs. But it could also be bad. And a lot of people who join groups it's because they don't know what they want and they want someone to be like, here's what you want, you want to do this, That's why it used for good side. I feel like the entire e d M boom was like one big like sub moment, like everybody just wanted to be like

dominated by Yeah, it's a megachurch, The Drop. Yeah, I mean I I don't know if I would call that a cult necessarily, but it has because it's sort of just this sort of aspirational thing. It kind of has a spiritual quality to it. Um And and the way that you know, people feel when they're own drugs and they're listening to music like that, you couldn't have take

on a spiritual quality. Um. Yeah, I don't know. It's it's interesting to think about people need community, and there's just always that fear that like one day one of the people in the community will be like, Okay, now it's you're in this cult, you know, and now it's time to take this to the next level. I feel like you must like test as a parent, must be invite you to weird things all the time that you don't know if their cults are not well, now I

feel unpopular. I'm like, what does she mean by invite into a lot of things. Yeah, I've had a few friends who were into multi level marketing schemes and tried to get me involved. One of them was like very very pushy. They're called huns because it's like, hey, hon, so they're referred to as Hans and one of them. I was very offended that she thought I was the

type of person to yeah, very offended. First I was like, she thinks I don't have a glowing complexion, And then I was like, she thinks I would sign up to sell like very overpriced crappy cosmics. No, I buy my stuff at the drug store. Hunt come on, um. But if you want to buy water that we spit in or some bonus episodes, join our book Club. One of

those things exists, and one of them doesn't. Just spoiler alerts, your truths and a live Join our Nightclub Patreon, but also, as always, you can call us at to four oh four six night with all your questions about the universe. You can also follow us on social media our Twitter as Nightcall Pod, Instagram Nightcall Podcast, and Facebook Night Call Podcast, and of course support us on our Patreon at patreon dot com slash Nightcall. Join our book Club, you can

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