Leave Room for Satan with Carvell Wallace

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so get it now because they won't exist anymore after that. Um. And yeah, you can find them at cotton Bureau dot com slash Products Slash, Strange Dash Days, Dash Lonely Dash Nights, or if that's too hard, you can just go to our Twitter uh at Nightcall pod or on Facebook a Nightcall Podcasts and it's some more information there. Um, but you should buy the shirts clause they're really cool and um, they're a great way to show everybody you love Nightcall.

All right, I'm gonna go, um check out. I'm gonna go edit my shopping cart and by some of these looks online. Thanks Night Call, Thanks for doing the show. I love you. Bye. It's in woods Hole, Massachusetts and you're listening tonight Call. Hello everybody, and welcome to Night Call. I'm Molly Lambert and with me in Los Angeles is Tess Lynch and our special guest Carvel Wallace and joining us in New York as always, Emily y Ashida Carvel.

Welcome to Nightcall. Carvel is on a podcast called Closer Than They Appear on the al Ja zero podcast network and works for The New York Times as a writer. And I also do the Slate parenting podcast Mom and Dad Are Fighting. It was a great podcast title. It is. It just makes it. The problem is that we have to fight every episode otherwise, no deal. It doesn't deliver if you don't. Emily, Welcome back from New England. Thanks.

I was in New England. I I want everybody to know that I went to New England and I came back and it was okay, and there was nothing to be afraid of Um, have you never been there before? Yeah? I had, so I went. I went to the Cape, which I cannot say without making a funny face. When we were talking about we were talking about the Cape before we started recording. Um, we weren't going to talk today about sharks. The end of summer seems like the

time to talk about sharks. And then we're gonna take a question about a haunted piece of wood that spoilers what are you doing? Sorry, it's spoiler. It's not spoilers that it's a haunted piece of what the spoilers what there might do with it. That's true, that's true. And then we're gonna talk about the Elon Musk Grimes, Azalia Banks uh situation. So guys, what do you what are you feeling about sharks right now? Well, everybody seen the

Meg No, we were talking about it, we were. Tessa was looking up the credits of the director and saw that he directed three Ninjas and cool Runnings Ding ding ding. Uh, Emily, did you see the Meg? I did. I had to see the meg for work I got I got paid by my employer to see the mag I'd see the Meg. Um. No,

it's not it's really bad. I think I think that this movie like started out like the first Whenever the first trailer dropped for it, everybody was like, oh, cool Judge movie with Jason Stu the minute, and then I think the second trailer jobs and I think they had caught on too. Maybe whatever Camp be Vie people were assigning to this film, and so I just decided to try to market It's like a giant shark and Jason

Statham work camp now, yeah, become really camp. I was going to say, is it all past after Shark Nato? But they're like, we have a bigger shark, and I think the shark in the movie is supposed to be seventy five ft long. Well, I was going to say, the reason I thought this might be like a real shark movie is because it's based on the other novel by the guy who wrote Jaws. Yeah, that's about a

megalodon shark. That's like the sequel to Jaws where it's like, oh, you thought Jaws was scary, check out a really ancient Jaws. By the way, the title of the book is meg A Novel of Deep Terror. It feels like shade at somebody like that. The author knew whose name was Meg. Meg. I like calling a megalodon shark Meg. It's like a name do it as the Meg in the film. But the thing about the film is that, contrary to its second round of marketing, it is a pretty straightforward shark

movie with a heavy Chinese finance influence in it. Um And one of the cool things about that, one of the only cool things about that, similar to Pacific Rim Too Uprising, which came out earlier this year, it's like this weird loophole that like gives you, um, like Asian female actors and like key roles and dumb action movies. Um, that's sounds Actually you're making a great argument for the Meg, don't you. Like, Well, no, it's I mean, it's just boring.

Like there aren't that many good I wanted more shark centric centerpieces. There's like one really really amazing one where um, like the female protagonists like gets lowered into the shark tank and then like all held breaks loose. Um that I don't know, I don't even know how to describe, but um, she gets lower it into the shark tank. One of those shark tanks that like you lower you

you're lower Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, um, with like a hole so that she can shoot a poison dart at the meg and then it doesn't go as planned, and uh it ends up like the shark grabs the thing and the whole boat tips over because it's attached to the cage, and it's just like this weird you're really selling us, though, I swear to God that I just sweared the I just I just spoiled the only good thing about it because it's really long, and um, it

doesn't It's yeah, it doesn't deliver that much on shark hijanks, but like neither does Jaws. And that's why I guess Jaws is about like corrupt local infrastructure. Yeah, Jaws is like a metaphor for something. It was also the first time. It was also like the first of its kind right right at the time. I had never seen it until not that long ago. Yeah, yeah, that's why I has

I still haven't seen Jaws. Oh my god, film critics spoiler Jaws is amazing, and I begrudgingly was like, I guess I see why this made Spielberg a huge director and also like ended the good seventies in movies that I ed, you know, like it's not Jaws's fault. Much like in the movie, It's not Jaws's fault. I saw Jaws when I was so little, and I just actually tried to sell my kids on watching Jaws, because I was like, why would you do that. I don't know,

wat kids should not watch Jaws. Well, there, you know, it's good to have all life fear at the ocean. Yeah, I mean people people in that generation had fears of oceans, pools, toilets, glasses of water like it was. It was, it permeated. In fact, there were so many rip offs. Like when I was a kid, I remember seeing a TV movie that was ripped off of that called Orca, and it was about a killer that was like it was like a made for TV movies, like a whale with a vendetta.

And I vividly remember being a kid and lying in bed and being terrified that a killer whales was going to just burst through the door. It was free, free willy. I didn't have their positive. It was all negative was a negative. By the time I think we were kids, it was there was a lot of like a big push of like sharks and awareness like they're not all predators who want to kill you like that, right, Let's

see sharks. Sharks aren't as smart as whales, so in a way, like a whale with a vendetta makes more sense than sharks are just kind of like reptile brain like exactly, but that's what makes them so spooky. But whales could like dress up. Is like your mom could really work a whole drift and then kill you. The craziest thing about whales to me is that they were on land before Wait wait what yeah, yeah, they were like a creature on land, like yeah, the opposite work. No,

what are you talking about? Talk about evolution, like all mammals that are sea mammals once land mammals, A lot of them, No, mostly mostly the other way around. But okay, let's fact check this. But what you're suggesting, just to clarify your claim here is that is that whales used to be land mammals that descended into the sea as opposed to the other way around, which is what everything you fact check this, Yeah, i'll do it. Talk amongst yourself, well,

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America's first non toxic seal. Go to True botanicals dot com now to get free samples and receive twenty dollars off orders of forty dollars or more off your first purchase with the code call c a l l one thing I've I've noticed about shark movies because UM on our on our website, UM Charles Born Musco did a list of all the the greatest shark movies, and I was looking just at the images of them, and I feel like half of the reason that shark movies became

a thing, or became a sub genre, is just that sharks already look so fake, Like before you make a fake prosthetic shark, like so frestionless puppets. They're prehistoric looking. They are like you can kind of just like turn a honk of of plastic into a shark. Not that hard guys have got an update, Okay, test all right, So this is from the Berkeley website. These first whales, such as pack acetes, where typical land animals. They had long skulls and large carnivorous teeth. From the outside, they

don't look much like whales at all. However, their skulls, particularly in the ear region, which is surrounded by a bony wall, strongly resemble those of living whales and are unlike those of any other mammal. That's what I am talking about. It wasn't crazy, it's incredibly creepy. Also like we are lucky that whales don't have vendettas against humans. Well, they're somewhat related to hippo's like if you go back

far enough, but then a certain point they diverge. Hips are angry and not smart, but hippos were chill and cute and scary. They're cute and scary. They're kind of like hungry hungry always in the movie. First guys, what about a Hungry Hungry Hippos movie. That's probably already I'm sure that's been green. I'm sure that's in development. Doungle Cruise movie. Yeah, the Rock when they made the when they whenever they bought up all those games, like when

they movie. Yeah, yeah, the Monopottle movie could be incredible. I would write the Monopoly movie. That would be dope. I want to see I want to I want to see the Operation movie with them. Yeah, I've watched The Rock in all of those like connect for with the Rock, The Rock, I don't. I don't like the camp of people though, but I am over the Rock. I will I will put I'll put in that language. I'm over

the Rock and he's had enough. Yeah, I'm on with his like weird fake not quite campaign posturing and he's like a total Republican and I don't know, and he he like used like a weird homophobic insults against Ven Diesel when they were fighting, and I don't know, right him and Vin Diesel was was an interesting were fighting the scenes they are still fighting, Like what's the cliffs

notes of that? For I mean, it's just like too like two huge egos in one room, I think, And I think I think he's I think that Ven Diesel is like a more I think he's more of an introvert a heart and I think I think the Rock is more just like a Grand Standard. And I think that well he's a wrestler. Come on, yeah, of course, I mean like it, it makes sense. But I think I think that the to those two big personalities on a on a single franchise, it was it was a

tough mix. Well, everyone's just one Giant Shark movie away from being back back in America's heart. But speaking of and Diesel, one of the things that if you haven't seen Ven Diesel's breakdance videos, oh yeah, everyone should. I just want to make sure that everyone knows about that Ven Diesel has like a secret like eighties like art career. Yeah right, yeah, he was like a lower He was like breakdance meets art. He was a bouncer. I mean, that's not surprising that he made this like art film

about how he could play any race. That was like about like, yeah, he was like exploring the like the just like the mechanisms of racial ambiguity in Hollywood. It was yeah, it was. It was weird, I mean hestally like some video art. Yeah, but he was doing his thing. Um but I also I don't know, the rock is just he loves his mom. I don't know. I can't. I agree with you, I guarantee you. And Diesel loves

his mom too. Okay, Yeah, who would have thought that the millionaire bodybuilder who preach itself about all the time we had to be Republican? What are the odds? I was just still stuck on that he was like a Horatio Alger story of like a wrestler who became like a like an actor, a famous actor. I don't know that that's the Horatio Alger story, but to me, I was like, this is an improvement on like Schwarzenegger, you know, who was probably an improvement on Schwarzenegger, but he's still

in the Schwarzenegger camp. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know it's a variational the Schwarzeneger. And then Vin Diesel is more of like a stallone. He's got the heart of gold. I think that is a I think that is a fair comparison. Yeah, yeah, that work. What do you guys think are going to be the next big like scary sea animal or just land animal that people are talking about of land whales now that every land wales. I mean,

I would love to go back to the prehistory. If we're going back to Megalodon's like, let's go back to the land whales. You know what's scary, Well, this goes back to the Cape Um. I spent some time on on a farm in the Cape. Those who follow my Instagram stories might have seen that I saw the baby are not what was scary. What was scary was turkey Turkey's Yes, that's what I was hoping you would say,

because that's basically what I was going to say. They are tar pits, And yes, I went to the Librea tar pits and they which I just hadn't been in a while, and a lot of that stuff that they have is like giant floths and stuff where you're like, man, these things are also cool. And then I've been watching that David Attenbrushow that's all like the ones that are

left just got really small. You know. There's all these things that used to be big and are small and basically they're just like birds are just like small dinosaurs that became small. Uh, And I just couldn't stop talking about it. I was like, look, the birds are dinosaurs. The dinosaurs to survive just became small and they're all

around us. There isn't inherent hard to turkeys. And in fact, there's an episode of Bob's Burgers that explores the horror of rasters, like when you posted that thing, because you posted like a hundred of them in a pen, and it was like it was sort of like and like I hadn't experienced so the turkey vulture Earlier this summer where I was on a beach like my boyfriend and I like walked down into a sort of like remote beach on the Central coast and there were these turkey

vultures flying overhead that like we tried to get closer to them, and they like wouldn't They were like, get the hell out of here. Yeah, they were I think maybe defending a nest or something vocal their vocal, but it's like I also didn't know that they wouldn't attack a human, but you know, they were like circling over us, and I was like, they could just funk us up so much if they wanted to have. You guys seen turkeys like regular turkeys, not turkey vultures fly. Oh my god. No, Yeah,

they lived there wilding. In a lot of parts in New England they're wild. So where my parents live, there are wild turkeys every whether they're huge, they're gigantic. And one time our dog brought she was a retriever and she brought us a turkey egg and once the dog touches the nest, the you know, grown up turkeys won't take care of them. So we got we found all

the eggs. We put them in an incubator and we incubated them forever, was like weeks and weeks of incubating them, and then we had a power outage and we've been looking through them with flashlights and we can see them growing. And during the power outage, they all they all died. But we didn't know whether to throw them away, so we kept them for a bit to be like maybe

the hatch, and then it was just disgusting. But on the plus side, you know they're mean birds, and then if you raise them, who knows what You're going to be so useful on the commune. Commune Happy Thanksgiving. But this is I mean, this may be excuse old, but there is a w k RP episode based on turkeys flying and the plot of it is that, um, they're trying to organize this big like Thanksgiving promotion, but they

won't tell what it is. Like the station director won't say what it is, he just can't wait to do it, and then he likes dispatches the reporter life to the scene, and it turned out the promotion is that they're going to throw a bunch of turkeys from a helicopter over a mall and create this like beautiful way, like a flock of turkeys just flying and creating this gorgeous thing. But of course they start falling and dropping on everyone. Oh my god, I think the next I think the

next sea creature horror should have to be octopus. But they're so cute and smart, but there are Yeah, we just learned that you've read this right. This is the new scientific study there act. Yes, I love them. They come from another come from another planet, not scientists, not believe that. It's very article that was like debunking that article. I the debunking article was like, but it's like, no, in some way it is true. Like they were like

it's not like they were like, we're flown here. But it was like, we don't know what their DNA comes from. It's like animals I won't eat is the octopus? Well, they're very smart. I went to a tropical fish store the other day in the Valley. I went to Tony's Tropical Fish. No, it's Marks Tropical Fish, Marks Tropical Fish. It's the best tropical fish store. It's been there forever. And then somebody told me it's owned by the guy from the Strawberry Alarm Clock, which even better. Um, yeah,

Mark from the Strawberry Alarm Clock. Who are my favorite movie beyond The Valley of the Dolls. Uh. But it's also just been there forever. And I love going in tropical fish starts because they're so relaxing. And I like watched this stingray. They had like a baby stingray in one tank and I posted some video of it, but it was like so cute and it looked like it was trying to escape. It was just like swimming to the top over and over again. And I asked the guy.

I was like, is trying to get out? Like doesn't know? And he was like, no, they just like to do that. Sure, Strawberry alarm clock can send some peppermints. What is the closest encounter any of you guys have had with like a sea monster, by which I would include like octopi or a shark or giant squids. I will say that the last time I was in Florida, I was in Pensacola and there were like, you know, it's like a different type of ocean than the ocean here. It is

a different ocean. And last time I went, I was like, this is so nice. It's like warm and different and beautiful. And then this time, I like noticed there were jellyfish everywhere and I couldn't unnotice it, and it made me sort of like a little too scared to be in the ocean because they were like a non poisonous kind of jellyfish, but even just the idea of like a lot of them touching my body. He made me be

like I have to get out of the ocean right now. Um. But then yeah, and then I went and looked and there's like a lot of like moon jellies. I went to like ap peer like at night and watch some jellyfish just swim around. And I think jellyfish are super scary and awesome. Jellyfish. Yeah, they have like sixteen eyes or something. No one can ever doubt anything. I say again, because I was right about the whale. Have you ever had any personal rance with a sea monster? A couple?

I mean, I so when I was a kid, I lived in Maryland and we would we would swim are this summer camp would we'd swim in the Chesapeake, and jellyfish were like common. You get stung everyone. We get stung all day long. It was like one of the things that would happen. It's just you get stung by a jellyfish. They were I mean, you would hold them in like you could pick them up. They were weird. I mean, jellyfish are very strange and they have no face.

They have no face and you can sort of pick them up and they're just kind of like it's like it's like a blob that's sort of you know, and uh yeah, but you'd be swimming and then you would just you'd hear it kid be like, oh, you know jelly. So there's that. But then when I was in at one point I went to Hawaii and we swam with sea turtles, which aren't really Yeah, yeah, somebody could do like an evil sea turtle movie, but like they have,

how could you do that? Maybe I'm just projecting, But like all the Australian sea creatures, I'm always like, they seem so chill. A lionfish, isn't it the lionfish that's like the most venomous fish? Or but all those great barrier refunds, I'm like, it's just they're so colorful and beautiful. Yeah, even if they like would murder you, you're like, that's cute.

Going to get to Australia, I don't know. I was snorkeling in Um the Caribbean and uh we encountered a ray, a giant ray, and was one of the freakiest things it's ever happened to me. It felt like encountering an alien in the wild because suddenly like we like, you know, it kind of makes itself clear in the water, and it was just sort of like sleeping at the bottom of the like um like on the sand. And then I think it noticed us and kind of like twitched awake,

and I had this fear of God and me. I just immediately turned her out and just like booked it back to the shore. But apparently it lived there. Like we were asking the people, like the local people there, and they're like, oh, yeah, you met the like that guy just like chills out there all the time. That's just like a sentient rug. Yeah. Yeah, but it gets

sometimes like it was bigger than Hope. I didn't that kill Yeah, until it ends your career, until it kills like a person whose whole life is about dealing with animals, Just like you know, you have to kind of accept the risk. Smiley face on its other side, that makes it looks like a real cutie. You really turn that smile upside test. What's your what's your most up close encounter? Um. I haven't ever gotten that close to like a whale, and I never got to swim with like the fun

like seals or whatever one does. But I did raise lobsters in this weird kind of like plastic condominium via this like mail order thing where you could your Your deal is that you'd raise these lobsters from like teeny tinese up until they were certain size, and then you'd send them back farm. Why what is the I don't know, but like raising animals and captivity that are supposed to be captured, that's kind of your things. She likes to incubate. All of this was during three years I lived in

a really rural area of Connecticut and I didn't have anything. Yeah, I like that rural biology. Yeah, so I was just like science lab. Yeah, you're like, but for like the East Coast, I did Pony Club too. I was all animals were my friends. But the lobsters it was just terrible.

I mean like they just died. And then the tank was really was like a huge setup where they each had these like little plastic cells and it was like a grid of like twenty four of them, and there was a filtration system that had to be cleaned by not basically was maceration, private private contract. This isn't the thing anymore. I can't never still be a thing. Every time you see a lobster tanke at arrest straw, that's true, but this was they had much less room, but they

were babies, so they didn't need a ton. That is how they incubate things. Though when you see it like an aquarium, not to defend you know, it was that I was like ten, But still, did you ever try to do like a little shark gag or anything? I don't know how you get like a shark. Well, the deal is is that I think that you could raise these lobsters, and I think it was brackish water, which is kind of like split the difference between fresh and salt. But a shark gag you would assume unless it was

some kind of like you need. Yeah, and then that that's like a whole ext you're thinking about this like realistically, which I I've thought about bringing because because Okay, so there's a new seahorse that they discovered in Japan. Yeah, it's really exciting. Sea horse news, breath seahorse news. You can use the seahorse full grown is smaller than a grain of rice and it lives in Japan. Yeah, and

it's part of a whole. There's like a whole group of these tiny little sea horses and they are not allowed to be kept as pets because there's a size limit. You can't bring a sea horse on a plane unless it's a certain size, and all of these are smaller so they can't be put and they're be Japanese sea horse. They're so pretty and weird looking. Oh god, that's what's so cool about the ocean is like there's stuff we don't know. The ocean is the best, but some people

are really freaked out by that. We've had the question ocean versus space, and it seems obvious that space is scarier. We all unanimously secarier because there's less creatures, but is scary because you don't know what's in there. And that's Today's episode is brought to you by tomboy X, a company that makes the most comfortable underwear, bras and more for everybody, no matter your size or where you fit

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to tomboy x dot com slash call. Um. I have to admit, so you have to come clean about something that I did years ago that I now realized it's terrible and I need to like admit to it, which is that I actually ate seahorse at some point. Yeah, So we were we were on this trip. We were taking this like trip in in Southeast Asia, and we were on this like tour and it was like go here and go to this fishing village and do this and do that, and so it was like this behind

it's like this back alley tour. And the guy was like, yeah, you like go and then we're gonna go see this old lady who has all these remedies. So we go to the old lady's house and she insists that seahorse is really good for everything that ails you. And she's got like, you know, sea horses there, and we're like should we be eating these? And she's like insisting that it's good for everything. It's virility and the memory and like hair loss, just whatever you name, sea horses are

going to be your thing. And so it did feel weird not to but we every we were like in this small group of like shorse, like two Americans to Canadians, the German French person who wouldn't stop smoke. Like it was like that weird international contention of travelers and uh and everyone we had to decide individually are we going to like do the seahorse thing or not? And so I did. It was about I'm going to say whatever

or something that's a big seahorse to eat. Yeah, I didn't eat all of took a bite and it was actually the grossest thing. What did it take? Was it just like briny and crunchy. It was briany and crunchy, but not even in a good way. Like it wasn't like we didn't tried tramp or something. It wasn't even that. It just was like, I mean, it tasted like I was eating a seahorse, you know what I'm saying. Like it's like the thought of it was so disconcerting that

all I could taste was the emotions. You know, you're being polite. I feel like that's you weren't like seeking it out like I'm going to eat something. You know. I have a friend who's a vegetarian who wants ate a jellyfish because they were in a situation where they felt like it would be impolite too, don't have bin That's kind of what they were saying, how they how they but that must have been so gross. But also

how tests has sort of talked. We talked about the horse meatballs from Ikea on this podcast before what now hold up, I'm sorry, could you do you eat Ikea meatballs? I do? OK, this is retroactively. You may have eaten some horse. I know why. There was like a thing where they just stilling meatballs to see they were you know, I think routinely every so often they'll test foods to see ya. This this was like maybe three years ago. I'm justing yeah, it was within the past eight years.

You're putt enough linenberry sauce on there. But the thing is, I'm not sure if it was the meatballs in the US, but it was for sure the European I kea, they're probably careless over there, like, oh, yes, I don't know people European s people love to eat horse, eat snail. This is, I think, is what you were going off of. You know, all kinds of things are traditional in other places. I feel like that's the thing too, is like like I've never eaten a c cucumber, but lots of people do.

And I was reading something about how it was like the super food of the future because there's like too many of them. Yeah, it's true. It's true that the line between what is edible and is not edible in each culture is if we're being a thousand percent honest rather arbitrary, saying, if you eat one animal like you might as well eat them all. Well, the fact is that we all need to be eating insects. But I know one will never know. But you know, but if

that's that's what's gonna happen. My friends are actually so I got this. I used to run this this. It's a long story, but I got this fellowship and one of the people in my fellowship class is are these two women that started the company that's all about insects called Chirps, and they are the cricket flower people. So I know those girls and uh and yeah they So when we were in like events together, they would be always be trying to make us eat like cricket chips

and so forth. And you know, I mean, that's it's going to happen. It's gonna happen. The hard thing is that crickets are I'm superstitious, and crickets are good luck. And so it's once I killed a cricket in my bathtub by mistake. I was trying to get him with a jar to bring him outside and chopped off his head and both my kids were watching and they were like, what have you done? You still moved. It was just a nightmare, and I swear it was I felt that

bad luck. Well then maybe like double your luck if you eat them. I don't think that. I don't think it works that way. I don't think so we could rewrite it. So maybe, um, hey, guys, should we take a nightcall? I think we should yeah, hey, nightcall. This is gonna sound really weird, but uh, I have a private wood shop, um, mostly a hobby. I do some side work. I've been doing it for years. Uh. This friend of mine this weekend introduced me to a friend

of hers who had a job they wanted done. And I should preface that by saying that over in the suburb of the city near where we live, back in I think it's two thousand fourteen, there was this horrible crime. It was like a murder scene literally where a person was killed and some of the the people were injured and it was really bloody. And they've had no ability to like sell or rent the property since then, and people go in there and sneak in there sometimes, mostly kids

and stuff. Anyway, this young woman, she has a piece of wood, which she claims and I know I'd proved this that she and a couple of her friends pried this piece of wood out from where all the bad things happened. And again I don't know if it's true. It's a nice, big, heavy, uh piece of wood that has some weird discoloration on it. Anyway, they wanted to know if I would make them aligia board and a

plan chet out of it. Um. I'm not saying I believe in all that stuff, but I'm also in no way saying I don't believe in it to the point where I think about it. And I know that some people who play with spirit boards and things, um, and they have like pictures of the kind they want. It's just like this Eastern European really old Gothic style one. I know people who use it. You always hear stories like they get like maybe entities attached to them or

something like that, and it never ends. Well. But what about the person who's like the carpenter who just makes it. I mean, if they're not using it, they're not playing with it, they're not trying to talk to anybody or communicate with anything. I guess my question is if you were my position, would you just say stop overthinking this and go ahead and take the job because I could definitely use the cash. Uh it does sound like kind of a cool project. Or would you be thinking why

on earth? This is? Like? Is it okay to work to build the Death Star? Well? I get blown up. This is my favorite question. Good. I just I wanted to start by saying I love that his question isn't should I unleash the forces of darkness on our realm? But well, I personally be in trouble. It's not like should I do it? It's like, I mean, I do it, But yeah, what are they going to come at me? Is it okay to build the Death Star if you're just a contract worker, if you're just trying to feed

your family, yeah, just trying to send your kids. I'm going to play Devil's advocate, no pun intended. Well, what if what if the Spirits have something? First of all, has the case been solved? Right? So if it hasn't been solved, could this be a way to crack the case, in which case you might be doing something good by making crack the case with the classics, well regarded way of solving murders. Absolutely, they have mediums for this. It's not just any weigi board. It's a sacred plantchet. I

think maybe it's not okay to build the Death Star. Really, I just decided, I mean, you know what the project, you know it's about, if you know, yeah, you know what I mean. But I don't think. I don't think they told every like everything you know, every like person on the Death Star, like so we're building as like Devil in the White Castle. It's about the America's first serial killer. He like, uh, made a murder mansion. Are you talking about Devil in the White State? Sorry? What

I call it? Devil in the White Castle? Old from the middle of the Burgers. Somebody told me, what not the ones you get at the supermarket and microwaves was like a whole stamped out. Yeah, the day we should do a reappreciation of Harold and Kumar go to White Castle because we just had two thousand and eight week. What year was that was like two thousand four, I think, okay, yeah, they were going to go on to Ambay and that

right right right in the White Oh. It was a guy who built a murder a murder mansion in Chicago during the Chicago World's Fair and then murdered tourists basically who came to check They checked in, but they didn't check out. But the way he was able to build it, because I had all these terrifying trapdoors and stuff to murder basement, it was that he hired like a million different contractors to do it and didn't tell any of them what they were doing, and didn't tell them about

each other. So they like built a house that made no sense, basically without knowing what they were doing, but each doing a tiny part. Ye, what do you guys think? How much? How much? I need to know how much? He didn't say. And it's bothering me so much. Not retirement money means that he's not being offered what would retirement money? Well, so they're kids, I thought their kids, So how are they catting their kids? I think they're like you. I was kind of thinking it was like

nineteen year olds. I'm sorry those are those are not kids, but we're talking about adult how old I need all the true I honestly don't see the problem with doing it. Wow, I don't, because I mean the kind of murderer the murderer has not has It's like not like there it's an open case, still, is it? Like That's what I'm wondering. Probably not. Let me just take this monkey paw. Nothing that will happen, Well, I don't think that anything bad will happen to him. I don't. I'm not quite sure.

Like I don't think that. I don't think the theft of the wood is like something that's gonna fuck anybody up, though, like it's they're probably gonna just end up tearing down the house anyway, and something's going to be built there on that spot regardless, Like I mean, somebody will move into the cursed house, or they'll tear down the cursed house, and somebody will live on the cursed land. It's like there's no way to realize, Like it's like you can't

get rid of styrofoam or something. It's like right right, and and as Carpel pointed out, all all land as cursed in America, all houses are made of haunted wood. Yes, So yeah, I don't I don't see in the scheme, in the spiritual scheme of things. I don't see why this would be any worse than what if your objection is it's tasteless, It's not. It's actually cool, fe okay. But like when like remember there was like a time period when Trent Rosner had like the house the door

from the Celo Drive house, the Manson murder House. He did what was he doing? He was it was a door in his house. He was he purchased it and put it in his studio and it had like it had had pig and stuff written on it in blood and then he later like renounced having done it. I was like, you know what's interesting about that is that I was like that thing I said about it being cool as ship was based on this is my whole

actually thing with true crime stuff anyway. It's like that joke was based on the idea that it was just this murder. But then as soon as you mentioned this yellow house and like a name and face was on it, then I was like, oh, my word, that's so tasteless. Like, but also I think in that case, that's like using it purely as decoration or some kind of trophy from a scene of atrocity or like a horrible murder. How

is that different than this? Though, well, I I don't feel like it's like they're not going to hang it up in their house or something like. But also like what was the murder that I think also matters? The details murder would make this okay like some somebody like killing their abuse of husband, Okay, yeah, a more ambivalent.

You know, it's just like if but he said it was like, I mean, I think he would have said he knows about the crime the caller and so he said it was like horrible and gall like he would have been like it was bloody and like it was real bad like this, this is the murder that you root for if you're like what if kids were like murdered? Like it's just well the listen though, is what's his

culpability though? If he's a woodworker, Like, first of all, say that the whole house is going to be torn down and the wood is going to be destroyed, is that necessarily better? Like if you're destroying the house that bears witness to whatever horrible event happened, like, are you then at risk for also getting evil spirits on you? I think? So that's really what his concern is. He's in the c y A situation. He's really just like

are the spirits going to bother me? I just feel like if anything bad, if I were him and I did it, I like made peace with whatever and was like I'm just gonna do it because it'll be an amazing, beautiful Regia board and they'll make you know, I'll make some money. Like if anything bad ever happened to me ever again, I'd be like because I made that Regia bar, you know what I mean, Like if you got sick,

you'd be like because I have a great idea. Can I say, what if he takes it to a like spiritual you know, if that's what they want, they want them and have to tell them because then he's released the spirit to the next realm, Right if we take it and saved the world from the spirit like being in trench. The issue, and the more we talk about this issue is less like our spirits going to come and have their revenge on the woodworker and more like is the woodworker going to feel ashamed of himself for

the rest of his life? No, he specifically said he doesn't want a spirit like clinging to him. Yeah, but I feel like you're having a hard time with the spirit thing because you're in New York, whereas we're having an easy time with the spirit thing because we're all in California. All that kind of should happens all the time.

I mean, So if I have to make a final if we have to make a final call, I would probably I would probably say it's okay to make this, assuming that the premise of the question is lesas I understood, it is like our spirits going to come after me if I make this, and which I think is a little bit of a selfish telling. It should be like, am I going to unleash darkness into the world? And I think that, um, that the point you bring up

is right, that like, maybe maybe this is good. Maybe this is assuming that spirits are there, Maybe this is a good thing. I think I should go ahead and make the wigeboard can just play a lot. Yeah, I agree it for some important bad energy. Clearly, it's maybe this is the only way that the victims will be able to That's what I'm saying. This is allows the victims to come through. That's not why they want it. They just want to spooky from bab. You've never seen Poulder, guys,

I mean root corded come into the light, you know. Yeah, this is a real Poulter Guist moment. It is best keep us updated. Don't where we are yea, yeah, I'm just saying this is Yeah. Now you guys are all you guys are you all said the spirits could come follow you and I said no, I remember that. I said, now if your spirit follow us on Twitter. Oh yeah.

And also the line is always open for spirits. If you'd like to give us your night call, please give us a call at to four oh four six night, or you can email us at Nightcall Podcast at gmail dot com. We also have an announcement to make. Uh. We're going to be having a live show in Los Angeles for those of our Night Call listeners that are listening from l a UM. No ghosts though, no ghosts please, no ghosts. But on September five at one of the

one of the most controversial pronunciations in Los Angeles. But I'm gonna go with hey, uh, they called it takes when I called takes takes that takes there there are articles about how to pronounce it. It's t a i X. It's the French restaurant in Echo Park. You know what you love it um On September five at a p m. We're gonna have a little live show there banquet, dinner, banquet.

We'll be announcing more details on all our socials and yeah, and then there will also be an after party and some merch and some merchase that it'll be a big night Call night people meet up and we would love to see you there. You can make shadow shadow people are allowed. Also, can we please talk about the Devil's three way just for like five minutes, just as a palate cleanser. Yeah, we just off to al Right, Tess, you've got feelings? Well, okay, it's this may be old

news when you're listening to this podcast. But over the past couple of weeks there's been a lot of stuff happening with Elon Musk. It started off on August seven when he tweeted that he was taking the company private and that they had secured funding. That turned out to not be entirely true. And then Azalea Banks entered the picture and took to her Instagram stories. Was a really crazy tale that I did not know whether to believe. And now I feel bad because it's maybe more true

than I thought. But basically, I mean, Molly, do you want to weigh in with what happened? It's a complicated story. She was posting on Instagram stories that she was at Elon Musk's giant mansion complex, which is five mansions in bell Air musta five mansions connected together. She was there because Grimes and she was supposed to be collaborating on something they announced in June and Times was like, come out to Ellen's mansion and we'll record something on this weekend.

But then I guess she was like oops, Ellen and I are going out of town. Yes, Grimes like stood her up, but was like, just stay at the mansion. It seems like just hang out, which I think like from other Azalia Banks stories, this happens to Azalia Banks

a lot. Is that she gets asked to do a feature on something because she had another story about how she was supposed to record with Rihanna, and Rihanna like kept her waiting all day and was like eating food in front of her but didn't offer her any and she was mad about it. In everyone's defense, I think this is actually a pretty common thing among the super wealthy and rich, and everyone like goes and talks about it publicly. No, I think I think all the things

she was saying we're true. She has a lot of stories where you're like, this seems like it's so specific, like the Russell Crow story where which was whip, which was like of course, like people are like, but nobody wants to defend Azalea Banks really, because she also has said some really horrible and by all accounts, she gets like either drunk or just upset. This was the thing when she told this whole story on Instagram stories. But

there was like no pictures that proved it. She was just like taking pictures of the ground, which was the most evocative things she could have done. She was taking pictures of like her iPhone charger in the wall. It was like it was very like help, help, I can't look like I'm using my phone right now, type of paring it to get out because she felt trapped inside. I said it was like ex mockin a because it

is you know. And also something about a house that big is like so scary, like nobody needs a house that big. Well, I guess they offered that she could stay in like the guest house, but she was kind of roaming around a bit, and she was she was saying that Ellen was tweeting and you know, while he was on acting and all the time tweeting and tweaken. Yeah.

She said that she basically was just like Elon Muskin Grimes were like doing so much acid that they like you know, are losing their ship and they're just like doing all this acid together in this bel Air mansion stories. But she also breaks the story that he doesn't have funding like that. She said that on her she was like, he didn't I heard him on the phone. He doesn't have funding, Yeah, like scrambling. She was like, he's too

dumb to know not to tweet on acid. And then after a while, after enough time being there, she starts to suspect that she was just brought there for some kind of weird threesome that they ended, which she was, Oh, absolutely, I'm not saying that that's not true. I'm just saying that she starts to catch on that that was probably She caught on that that was probably what was happening.

She posted what we're supposedly text from Grimes that seemed everybody was like describing is really texts like that, and people were posting her tweets being like, I mean, this is how she tweets, so like, it doesn't seem that weird, especially if everybody's on a lot of acid all the time. The part of this story that's so weird that I can't even really like verify that. I'm not making it up, but I don't think I am is that they were all eating dipping dots. Know that part right verified it

because I was like, we came of the future. Grimes would totally be like, let's get some dippin' dots because it's the ice cream of the nineties from exactly. But that's like they'd both be like, we love the future, the idea of doing acid and then being like, great, now it's time for Twitter and dipping docks, doing doing like having so much money and all the good drugs and being like, let's sit around on Twitter like what and I let's do some painful ice cream. These are

genuses of our time. They're like, just go on Twitter on acid. Um, it just was a you know, just send Anna Biller over there to just shoot this. I know. Also just the breaking news of today, which again is a week ago for you. But it's important that you realize that this has all led to some unfollows between crimes on Instagram. They don't follow each other, they followed each other each other. Do you think that they did they break up? What we're wanting to cut posed the

question is this the end of Grimes? And Elon I knew it should be. We were never about that. It was a summer romance. It was a summer nightmare. I don't know that. I mean, I believe in giving people a lot of leeway for bad dating decisions, because one of my theories is that everyone dates badly, And I dare anyone to doubt that. And every person knows deep in their heart that they've dated badly at some point. But I almost feel like, like choosing to date Elon

Musk is a thing you should never recover from. She can't come back from the thank you as Elia Banks for bringing down the Evil Empire at least um that was a good move. But that was the thing too. It's just absolutely Elon Musk's thing. You know, his like rep denied it and then he like confirmed it, which is also like, why are you trying to make her look like a crazy liar? Also the qualifier of like I just finished working out s Look I'm not doing

us and needing dip in dollars, I'm working out. Look at what a nut job this person is. That people are project acting like authority and genius onto and like, but this isn't the thing I love about this story on a deeper level. Maybe it's not even deeper, it's just the level of the stories that this is so entirely within the ethos of Silicon Valley. Like this idea that like people imbue these like basic dudes with like some kind of power and authority because they have this money,

but then when you see their daily inner workings. Also, as a Zilia, Banks pointed out, his money all comes from like apartheid diamonds, Like that's why he's a rich person who was able to start a company in the

first his his bootstrap story. But it's very no, he's like from like because I was doing jokes a while ago about how his dad was John Houston in Chinatown, and then I saw a picture of his dad and his dad looks just like John Houston and then married his stepdaughter, which was what he and Elon Musk fell out over. It was because Elon Musk was like, my dad and I don't talk. He did something very bad. He knows what it is. And then it came out that it was like he married a step was one

of his stepchildren. So wow, super cool family. The problem is nothing can stay funny and everything has to get dark seconds, just the reality of this moment. So and this one, people are are like. People are defenders of Banks in this one right because this is like a really big step towards her public rehabilitation. Well, based on based on her social interactions over the past few years, I would not invite her over for a weekend because she just sounds like she gets drunk and super angry.

But I'm like really happy that she's been vindicated. Also because everyone always calls her a liar, like she's she was telling like a like a twisted fairy tale. It's like, I'm in this mansion with these crazy people, and I'm realizing that this collaboration is like not a thing I'm trying to do. Um, it was really good content. We'll check back on this story because it's I love this Sure, well that doesn't for this week's call. Thanks everybody for listening.

And yeah, if you want to give us a call at one to four oh four six night, you should do that. Tell us weigh and on the Weigia board question it's the great, the great moral debate of our time apparently. Yeah, you guys know I'm right in your heart. And thank you so much for Carve, to Carvell for being here too. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks Carvell for coming on, and listen to Carvel. I'm closer than they appear, and check him out in the New York

Times magazines. And mom and dad are fighting. Dad fighting, And we will see you guys next week. And at Our Love Show by Bye Okay.