Give Me Thread Until I’m Dead

well sound engineered. Molly wrote a really interesting piece this week on RII Zone. Uh is that is that? Right? I was kind of Uh. It has a lot of a lot of terms. It's like the net art anthology at Rhizome for the New Museum. Got it? Um? Yeah? About your favorite in mine Jack FM, the original Spotify playlist Yeah. Um. My my friend, the artist Guthrie Lonergan did a project called point one JACKFM, Los Angeles two thousand eight that is up on an online exhibition on

right Zone Right now. That is a net art anthology exhibition, And they asked me if I would write an essay about it, and I said sure, I would love to um and it is also up on their website. Because I love Jack f M. I love thinking about Jack FM, and Guthrie did this really amazing project where he kind of like scraped an algorithm basically in two thousand and eight, the Jack of M put up of their last three songs to sort of try and make sense of what

the Jack FM formula is. Uh. Jack of EM for those who might not know, is a radio format uh that just kind of plays randomly through an algorithm. I think. Isn't their logline basically, we play what we want, but it's like we is the machine. Yeah, we as the machine and what we want is like you know, I got this projects was sort of trying to figure out, like what what are the parameters of playing what we

want for JACKFM? And it's fascinating because it makes you crazy, like trying to figure out what the zodiac is all about. To be clear, so Jack does not exist, but he there's a voice actor who has always been Jack. I think it's based off of you said, a Canadian station called Bob FM and Dave FM. I did a close rate. I'm fascinated by this. Canadians invented the Jack FM format. Yeah. They invented it as Bob FM, and then it spawned offshoots that were like Joe FM, Dave that, but yeah,

I like that. Their American version is jack Yeah. And I used it as an opportunity to talk about Wolfman Jack, who is a great DJ, and just talk about DJs and freeform radio and algorithms and all things I like. So check it out if you are looking for something to read on the internet. It was really fun to right the nightcall Twitter ya. But also, okay, Moll, you just said you like Jack FM, but in the piece it sounded kind of like you didn't like Jack. No. I do like Jack FM. I come to it for

something other than like finding out about new music. But I'm saying that I like about it is it's like it's just a weird format because it is about like being nostalgic for listening to badly compressed radio versions of things. Um and I you know, I'm not a purist. I listened to badly compressed radio all the time, just when I'm driving, even though I could like listen to real music off of my phone at this point. But there's something very comforting about just like someone else is choosing.

It's the Proustian into the commute. Yeah, it's like, you know, a commute in a bottle. I always felt that the jack FM, that taste level or zone of jack if I'm kind of felt like if you walked into any like bar at a hotel that had like hot wings, but it was sort of a little bit sad. But that's they would basically really playing jack FM. Jack if M is where everybody knows your name. Yeah, see every

Man's Playlist or something. Yeah. And what I was saying also is like other radio stations that are corporate and owned by our radio, the new name of clip channel, you know the details there aren't really picking the records either. They're like, oh, we're gonna play you know this Chris Brown record this. They act like they're picking it. Oh yeah, I can't wait to hear that that new CARDI B I'm going to play it for you next hour. And it's like, well, you have to play it like five

times an hour. Hence God's Plan being on like every five minutes. When I've been renting a car over the last month, I was just talking about this at a work meeting because we're talking about God's Plan and how it's like totally mediocre but still managed to get to

the top of the charts. And I'm like, yeah, they're playing it every three minutes on every single station, Like in Los Angeles at least when I had a rental car there, and then in New York when I had a rental van out here, I was just listening to that song NonStop, right in the way. The DJs are like, we're going to play it because we can't wait to hear it. Oh man, I love this one. Someone paid

you to play it. Um. But that's also how songs like get in the popular consciousness and then everyone's like, gott to hear it again. What's the deal? Does does Ka DA decades DJs still pick their own music then? Or is because Kate was bought by what a Chinese corporation I think a couple of years ago and then but then it continued to broadcast as Kada But Katie always has this. They've at least convinced me. But maybe it's an illusion that the DJs are choosing things. It's

an illusion thanks a lot. They're they're like a classic rock station, but for Wrath, so it's still just like there's like a list of like five thousand songs they play whatever order. It just was novel at the time because we were like, oh, look, it's like a classic rock stadi station but for wraps right. I think I'm still just sad because what was it one one hundred point three? There was a classic round station that recently Yeah, no, well Indie died a while ago then not. I think

it was one d point three. It was a classic rock station and they just ceased airing a couple of weeks ago and became like a Christian station. Oh is that the one that has those billboards that's like music for calming your life? Probably you know what I'm talking about. I've seen the billboards and they're really good because they're really black mirrory because they yeah, they don't say anything

about what the format is. They just say one hundred point three and it's like against a background of clouds, which is how you know it's maybe a spiritual and you're going to die well listening to it, it just says encouraging music as opposed to all those mainstream discouraging music stations. In makes me want to listen to and I see the Billboard. I'm like, I could use some in coreger encouraging you towards the wrong thing. I totally

end up listening to Christian music on road trips. I guess, yeah, I just like the gospel is good. I like dipping in. Yeah, it's good. But they didn't have to take the classic rock. But that's the thing is. Now you can find if you want, like a good classic rock station their satellite radio. And no, you know, nobody listens to FM radio except people in their cars on commutes or just driving around randomly. Like guys. Uh, So it's interesting. I like, I like

thinking about stuff like that. So thanks, Thanks Rizome, and thanks Guthrie Loan again. Um My my genius artist friend who is very good at the Internet and art. Speaking of art, nice uplift, speaking of encouragement, encouraging. Yeah, um, you guys finally got around to seeing Phantom Thread, which

we did. We should preface by saying this was somewhat at the recommendation of a listener who called in a while ago, but also just my general battery as well to both of you guys, so that we could talk about it. Um, tell me about your experience. Well, now I have an excuse to post the caption give Me Thread Till I'm dead that I've been planning on. That's the title of this episode. Yes, I'm gonna let test

take it. Don't do this test encouragement. UM. I have a lot of good things to say about Phantom Thread, things I liked, but in the end, I'm going to say that I probably liked it the least of all of us. I'm guessing um my favorite. I had two of my favorite scenes that I thought made it a great movie for me alone was the dunking of a spear of asparagus into old butter, the sound effects of eating.

I love all of these things. And then um, there was an exchange between um between the House of Woodcock get It Together Together the look. I thought it was a very very funny movie. I thought it was beautiful and very luscious. And I also was kind of like, I don't care that I don't care very much about the relationship between a narcissistic artist and his muse, and I don't care about bespoke fashion, and I didn't. I just found myself a little alienated. But I still really

enjoyed it. It's just it didn't it didn't punch any buttons for me. Molly's sitting here like gleefully. She loved it. I loved it. And then I went home and I made a list of the first time I've taken notes for the podcast. I'd like to read. I like to read my notes. Yes, please live reading here in minutes. Phantom Thread notes, Uh, eyes wide shut is my first note. My second note is Sam and Diane Um The Phantom of the Opera, Preda Porte Wondering Heights. Those are my notes.

Preda Porte, the Altman film. Yeah, oh my god, let's bring it back the most. It's so good. Yeah, no, it is what it is. It's it's a great movie about the fashion world, and how many of those are there aside from arguably the first to lander movie. That's true. So you were how would you describe your your your feeling after leaving the movie, because I had a very particular one. I mean, you said you really needed a stiff drink. We really needed a stiff drink in like

the middle, a stiff drink break. We were just it was it does make you. I mean we're talking about it in terms of mother a lot too, because I was like, are you more less stressed out than you were ordering Mother, and Das was like, I'm less stressed out, but I'm also like less engaged. Huh interesting, So I see.

I think these two movies are so like they hit a lot of the same themes in a way that I think it's like it's very fortuitous that we are doing them back to back, um, because yeah, it's like this this very particular the this domineering creative male persona and his wife slash partner slash muse living with him. But who else relates to the dominating male persona? What Ruda? Did you relate more to her or to him? Oh?

That's one of the reasons why I had to like go take a rink afterwards, because I was like, I'm both of them at the same time, and you don't know which one I like. I don't know how to feel about this movie. I don't know how to feel about what it portends for my relationship and any relationship in the future. Yeah, Like Tess is like, what do you think it was about it? I was like, it's about how like marriage is like mutually agreeing to like kill each other slowly over a long period of time.

But yeah, like a little bit of poison. It's a tiny bit of well do you know the story that that um pelt Thomas Anderson has told about it as far as its origins as an idea, Yes, because I read everything. I don't. I don't. I mean it's kind of love. So it's it's that, you know, he is married to Maya Rudolph, and it's one of the most enviable I would say, one of the more enviable show business marriages, uh currently going. And um, you know, he's a he's a he's an artistic man, and I'm sure

that he's maybe not always the easiest person to live with. Um. And there was some point at which he got really really sick and was laid up in bed and Maya Rudolph was like feeding him and taking care of him and like realizing that, you know, when he's kind of taken off of his game or like forced into into physical submission via illness, that like suddenly their relationship was so much more tender and loving. And uh, that was the that was the beginning of the movie. And then

he called up by Lewis. It was like, let's make a movie. There's a curb your enthusiasm about that that it made me think of where like Larry gets sick, this role is like tending to him very tenderly, and then she gets sick and he's like, what do you want me to do? I feel like that somebody needs to do the edit of of between them. Yeah, just at the music cures over fandom thread. I think it

would be incredible, it would be perfect. Yeah. I thought it was interesting too because I was like, Okay, well, Paul Thomas Anderson, like, what the main thing we know about him romantic is that he like only dates female geniuses. Yeah, so I also thought it was like I was like, he doesn't date like muses like Maya Rudolph is a genius and then he did a Fiona Apple is also a genius. So what happens when there's like two geniuses

in the room. Well, that's why I think he understands the side of of um oh man, I'm totally forgetting her name, but the creeps, but what's the asters name? Alma? What? Alma? Alma? That's right? Yeah, just like uh persona? Um. Yeah. I also thought she looked a lot like like the chick from Persona? Is her name? Her official name is the chicken the other one, the other one? Um yeah, b B B B Anderson, Yeah yeah, yeah, um yeah no she I mean I feel like that's that's what Phantom

Thread I feel like has over Mother. If you want to talk about both of them as movies. About this Dyna Amick about living with a creator in any sense of the word, is that I feel like both sides are equally explored and you know, dealt with. And it's not like this one domineering person in one person who has to you know, submit to the the whims of that person. Like it's both. It's a it's a push

and pull, and it gives agency to both sides. And I think that was what makes it so like it's like it feels like something I haven't really seen that kind of dynamic on screen before, because like, I totally didn't feel like I'd liked a battery after watching it. H Well, Molly found an interesting quote from Jennifer Lawrence on Phantom Thread, which would you like to read it? Molly? You read it in the voice of Jennifer Lawrence. I

think you're too much fresh podcast. Okay, I'm doing it in my own voice, but she said, I got through about three minutes of it. I put in a in a good, solid three I'm sorry to anybody who loved that movie. I couldn't give that kind of time. It was three minutes and I was just oof. Is it just about clothes? Is Reynolds Woodcock kind of like a narcissistic sociopath and he's an artist, So every girl falls in love with him because he makes her feel bad

about herself and that's the love story. I haven't seen it, so I don't know. I've been down that road. I know what that's like. I don't need to watch that movie. First of all, the b queen Jennifer Lawrence doing the thing I always do, which is to tell you a whole opinion about a movie you haven't seen. But also I feel like she's, you know, she's showing her hand

a little bit there, she's talking about Chris Martin. Also, I'm sure she was doing She said this quote in an interview with Mark Mayre and which also made me go, like, what did Mark Marin think of Fantom Thread? Was he like, it's just like me, Yeah, I have everything away, Um, who are my guys? Um? But yeah, I was like, she's also doing Howard Stern next week, so you know, but I mean people were going hard on her for even this quote. They were like, what does she never

want to work with Paul Thomas Anderson. I was like, I didn't see the movie. Everybody wants to work with Paul Thomas Anderson. And maybe she was like nagging him because that's also what the movie would tell you. He likes a spirited lady. Yeah, I mean, well this is the other thing she kind of I feel like she

touches on this in her quote. And this has been a like a low level debate I guess maybe kind of among film Twitter is like, is this film, I guess, advocating for Reynolds Woodcock's behavior or like yeah, and I feel like it's so self evident or it's like it's not necessarily like taking sides, but I think it certainly recognizes that his his way of life. Um, maybe maybe untenable isn't the right word, because it certainly seems like it's been tenable and led him to success before. Then

it fits in person. Yeah, yeah, And and it's like you can either find someone who's willing to like mold their life around, like you're the you're the person and they are standing that. They kept saying, she just stands stand there forever, Um. But it's like it's also implied that like if he changes anything about his working pattern, it like affects his work, and like falling in love fox up his work, which is also what Lala Land

is about. I was, um, you know, and is like an interesting thing, especially for all of us are writers. We like do a thing that you can only do by yourself, that you cannot bring anyone else into and you have to be like in a little like chapel of the mind to do and that is weird for anyone else who has to deal with it because they can't do it with you. Yeah, I feel like there was some I didn't read this whole interview, but I think I saw an excerpt from it somewhere, which is

just the nature of everything now. But it was between I think it was between Um Greta Gerwig and I want to say it was Lord Um. I think that was it. But they were just talking about the process of, like you know, working on a body of work, whether that's a film script or an album or something, and how you do it, like the process of doing that when you have a partner in your life and how you know, a lot of guys are just as not you know, understanding, it's hard to you know, adjust your

life around. Now, I'm going to go into this other room in my life and work on a thing that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with you at all, And that's just the nature of my work. And um And I was like refreshing to hear women talking about that because I think that it's just as real, if not more real, um to like build your your artistic

world versus the world that you share with your partner. Um. But and it's also like the way women are socialized to like you're supposed to be like taking care of someone all the time. So being like I have to just go do this thing like only I can do it benefits you in no way and like self care. Yeah, I hate the term self care. Also, one thing that I really got obsessed with I and I liked about the movie was how his hunger for just fat was kind of ran through the whole movie, like he just

wanted like cream or fried thing butter. It just seemed very British to me. But then I was also like, why aren't there baked beans on the toast. No, because he's fancy. But then it's like you saw him he did. He had the rare bit. You don't see him eat very much. He sits there with the stuff and he orders. But it's like when he eats the asparagus and then he's chewing like one or two other times, but then everyone else is like chomping. You don't see him eat.

You don't see them. Fuck, it's interesting because they only kiss once. Right. Well, it's also like and there will be blood. It's like he's the character and there will be blood. Is also sort of like driven by these immense lusts, but like not sex. And the milkshake there was a lot of the drink it up. Also was like was a little curious about the like when he

says he's a confirmed bachelor. She was like, oh, he's gay, because that is what that Well, he because he's also said that if he were in a marriage it would be deceitful. I said, I said, that's because he would cheat. That was clearly one meaning. But then I was kind of like, oh, ho, I see where this is going. I feel I didn't go there, See, I felt like you said it would be deceitful because it's just like to say he needs a marriage in his life would

be deceitful. It would be like walking through some sort of societal you know, uh, norm in order to I don't know, conformed to something. But he doesn't actually need a marriage in his life. I did have the thought that he was gay, of course, you know, obviously whatever stereotypes about fashion designers, but like it didn't really seem he was just I don't know, he just seems like

almost a sexual right. He's also what I feel like, Daniel Plainview is a little bit like there's like some references to Daniel Plainview being like impotent, uh, but all he cares about his oil, and here it's like all he cares about is like the lovely the lovely velvet. I tweeted this after I saw the movie, and I don't I don't get remember if it was right after, but like, I kind of I feel like I stand by this in certain ways, and I want to I want to run it by you and see what you

guys think. Um, which is that Paul Thomas Anderson is one of the best cinematic scholars of romance currently working well. I love Punch Drunk Glove, and Tess also loves Punched, which is one of my favorite romances ever. I love romances, you know, like I like a big romance. Oh do you well? Tess is kind of like, why did he make this movie of all the movies he could have possibly made? Well, it's more like, why didn't he make a movie that I would like more? Why didn't he

think what would she want? Like, I mean, I really I liked The Master. It wasn't my favorite, but I liked it. I liked it a lot, And this one is like a little bit shy of the Master on the on the gage, and I still love pt I mean, I love him and I love every movie he makes. Is you know there's there's nothing offensively bad. Obviously it's still a tour de force. It's still a great movie. I think it's just a question of like when you have a mind that that you know, filters things and

turns them into these amazing movies. Like I just didn't want it to be about the dresses, man, You didn't want to be about the dresses. Guys, it's about I know, it wasn't about the dresses. Test was like, is this movie about capitalism, and I was like, kind of because

it's about like the spoke. That's also quick deviation because Molly was recently telling me that Boss Baby that she was listening to a podcast where it was there was a good chop chop episode about boss Baby Baby is about capital and it's which totally made sense to me. This movie, to me, uh, falls into the category of Mother and Zodiac, of like movies that are about filmmaking, that are like, I'm going to pretend it's about this

other thing, but it's clearly about filmmaking. Uh. And then when I was reading about it all night because I was like, I have to find the secret of fandom tread um. Uh. There was a thing about how he Pete Anderson was the cinematographer on this movie that he like didn't he couldn't get Elder's to do it, so he did it himself. He was un scheduled to do something else and he was like, I'm going to do it myself, which I was like, well, that's what the

movie is about. It's like someone you can't let anyone else do anything for them, which is also like Zodiac. It's like I need to just like pour over my materials and mother he just needs to like work on his poem's like, you see what you're all doing. You see how you're making an obsessively detailed movie about how you're like obsessed subly can't stop thinking about details. Ever, I think I think it's very Um. I think that they're both kind of assholes in a way, which is

kind of the point. Um. But I think like one another thing that people have kind of picked up on it is the fact that they bond over this thing where they have to go get the dress back from this heiress the sociality, Yeah, which is based on a real story. Um, that's like a real chapter in history.

I saw somebody talking about that where they're like, this was like the thing that I wrote my my master's thesis about this, this you know, weird little oddball footnote in history about this, uh, this kind of scam artist guy marry marrying this um kind of past marrying age heiress and and like this disastrous marriage that ensued. Um that is based on like that's what it was based

on in the movie. But um uh, but yeah, that they kind of that's where they bond is like going to like steal the dress back from her, like shame her for for behaving poorly in the dress, and like they're both like, right, yeah, we're both assholes. He falls in love with her because she's like I'm crazy too. Yeah, um, we're also we haven't even talked about Cyril Cereal. I'm obsessed.

I mean obviously, I think everybody really loves Cyril. A woman named Cyril, A woman named Cyril Um that was kind of like the heart and soul of the movie to me. Uh, and I identified more with And you were also like, is there incest? Is the plot twist going to be incest? Waiting for that too? I had my I had my kind of up for all sorts of things in this movie that didn't end up like coming to fruition, me too, But that's what I also

liked about it. Yeah, yeah, weird portals. Yeah, and that way it was the opposite of Mother, where you were expecting, you know, something that kind of made sense within that world, and instead it was just like a mine field where everything just blew up and like, you know, every possible horrible thing happened, and this was kind of like, oh,

look he has he's throwing up. Spoiler alert, spoiler alert but yeah, Leslie Manville, that was such an amazing performance to me to see to see someone so have such stillness and and to be able to control your face that way, it's like to really make it into this

like mask. It's I love it. I like this movie as like the inverse of Boogie Nights too, where I was just like, you know, if somebody was like, you can go make a movie in England, because he's never made a movie outside the West Coast, really he like Heart eight is in Reno, and then all the other movies have been in California. So this was like, you know, it's just like the light in England. The way that the light is in this movie is just like the

polar opposite of the San Fernando Valley. It's like it white and clean and yeah yeah, and then the light here is all just like beautiful and blue and hazy and everything. You know, everything's either like fire lit or like totally foggy. It's diffused. It's naturally diffused because of smog. Yeah, and it just felt very kuber key to me, which must be how it feels for anyone who like gets to go make a movie in England with a big budget,

because I think this was just maybe his biggest budget movie. Also, what was that thirty five million? I think yeah. So just like that big party scene, I was like, oh, we're in the shining now because we're at a weird New Year's Eve party. That wasn't clear to me. That scene that she got like kind of hustled around. She

was like, your life sucks. You never go out. I don't want to be married to basically went to a rave by herself and he went and then she was having fun and he sees her and then all of a sudden she's abruptly not having fun. But I felt as though she should have been having less fun. Somebody like knocked into her, and then she was like this isn't funny, more fun anymore. And he was like, it's time to go home, and she was like, you're right.

I don't know. We're in a codependent relationship, man, um, I don't know. I like any movie that interrogates like the direct or actress relationship because it's one of the weirdest things in the world. And that's why Mother was so weird, because you were like, okay, but actually for real, uh so, of course, Jennifer Lawrence couldn't handle this. She

like just went through it for the fifth time. I will say, even knowing how fucked up that relationship that the the designer muse relationship or whatever, um you know, substituted is on screen, the images of them, like when they're doing the campaign photo shoot and he's on the floor like gazing up at her and she's wearing that

I like I Well. First of all, Paul Thomas Anderson is great at doing scenes of people getting their photos taken in olden times because it's also in the master uh, and it makes you think about how those images look when you see them in the present day and like what actually was going on when they were shot um, because when it's like face falls when he's like looking up at her and then it's like cut. Yeah, there's um.

But just the image itself, even knowing all that and all the baggage that's there, I'm like, I want a photo like that so it looks so fantastic, um, but yeah, it's it's I I liked it a lot. I'm glad you you were the impetus for us to see it. I liked it too. I feel like it could have been anything other than dressmaking, and it would have been the same movie that weird. I was just like, it could be any He had to Daniel day Lewis to go and study up for a while while he wrote

the script and everything. He's like that fashion. I was like, he made a dress and Test was like really and that's why his thumb maybe was that was probably his real thumb. You know who I bet loves this movie, Kanye totally. This is also the thing where he's like, it doesn't really matter, like I just met you, nothing about you matters except your proportions and that I can do whatever I want with them. And he's like, you have no breasts, I'll give you them if I want,

if I want. And just the thing about like the woman who's like replaceable and you just find a new one, which is also a very big director actress thing. Obviously, it's like the men stay the same from movie to movie, but you get like a new on genue every time. Uh, just you know, stuff I like to think about in terms of movies. It was a little hitchcocky also, Yeah, for sure reminded me of there's a lot of like

poisoning people secretly in each comties. So, as I mentioned, the suggestion to talk about phantom thread came from one of our lovely night call listeners or night callers. I don't know, is that what we should call them? Night callers? Um? And that person left a voicemail for us at two four oh four six night which you can do to and leave us any of your thoughts, questions, theories, uh, talking points, what have you. We also have an email. We do have an email too, It's Nightcalled Podcast at

gmail dot com. If you prefer to express yourself that way. UM, we welcome any and all. But we have a call this week coming to us from Conrado. Hi. This is Conrado from New York. And I guess I have a question mainly for Emily, since I know she is a big fan of anime and you guys were talking about Uri on ice last episode. So I've seen a lot of Studio Jibie movies and I love them, but I've

struggled with almost every other anime that I've seen. I think it might be the science fiction aspect that doesn't do it for me. For example, I loved the first half of your name when it was basically a body swap comedy, but then the science fiction kicked in and I turned out. Others that I've seen and have been underwhelmed by include a Kira and Ghost in the Shell. So I always hope and for some non science fiction

enemy that you might be able to recommend. Thank you all right, this question, I feel like I couldn't have come at a better time, because I've been doing a deep dive on some vaguely not science fiction. I mean, I guess it depends on what you mean, because I guess people mean a lot of different things, and they talk about science fiction, like do you mean you don't care for stuff about cyborgs or space operas are that kind of thing? Or it's really hard for us to

understand people not caring about cyborgs. Yeah, it's it's hard for me to put myself in that space. But at the same time, there is and and and it is true that it's like very wrapped up and like like like there's a high crossover eight with Auntomey and and science fiction. I think because you know, you can do pretty much anything you want and animies and so why

not make it be it's aliens and spaceships and stuff. Well, you also wrote a great article about Go to the Shell when the remake came out that was about sort of like why anime and science fiction go so well together. Yeah, it's uh, it all has to do a World War two. Yes, spoiler alert, atomic bombs. Um. But I have a suggestion after you, I'm going to leave out the one that I have. I have a guest you might suggest, But

I also know that you've been watching some little Witch Academia. Uh, And I don't know, I don't think that qualifies as uh as sci fi. It's there's so much fantastical stuff in an anime so and hard fantasy. Yeah, yeah, not so maybe soft fantasy. So that's like the name of my chill Wave act. Um. But I so what I've been watching recently, and uh, because they're doing it. I think they already did this in l I. But they're gonna at Metrograph. They're doing a little short term revival

of mind Game. I Masaki Yuasa and he's like a very um he's like he's kind of not for everybody. His style is very, very expressive and all over the place.

And um, his most famous film and the one that they're they're showing at Metrograph this weekend is UM is called mind Game, and it's like extremely trippy and involves the afterlife and being stuck in the belly of a whale and uh, there's just like a bunch of stuff going on with it, and the ending of it is just like completely cathartic and incredible and kind of confusing. Um as as many of the best anime finalies are UM, but I would I would recommend UM. There's a show

that he did that I'm starting to watch now. I'm like kind of in the middle of called Ping Pong. That's about ping. It's about ping pong. Um. It's sort of similar to Urian Ice and that's like very detail oriented about the sport that it's about and all these different competitors and stuff, and um, it's pretty it's kind a kind of very dry sense of humor, and the animation is really unique and pretty cool looking. Um. That would be my first my first recommendation, Molly, what about you?

My recommendations? Um? Okay. One recommendation is for if you don't like things to be scary at all. And because I was looking for like mundane anime for a while, because I love just mundane British bakeoff anime. British bakeoff anime. Maybe that's also what I like Phantom Thread a little bit because I was like, oh, everyone's so repressed and

like the steaks are so weird. Um. But there's a show called Polar Bear Cafe that is about a panda, a millennial panda who hates working and has to get a job working in a coffee shop run by a polar bear. And it is so low stakes and chill and I love it except all the animals are drawn really realistically instead of cute, which also makes it even cute or somehow so relaxing though, like the Silent because

it's not like there's something. There's something. If they were super hyper cute and having huge eyes, you would feel really confronted by them on the street. But it's very they're really it's very realistic, and then they're also just very cute, even though they have like giant fangs because they're bears. Um a show that I also really like that I got into. Um, but it's really creepy and I can't tell if it's sci fi or not because I feel like it's sort of it's in like the

creepy mystery category. Maybe is a show Higarashi When They Cry. Uh, it's maybe also called Cicatos When They Cry. Um, I forget it's based on a video game or if the video game came off the anime. But it takes place at a festival on an island and then some weird stuff happens. That sounds good. Oh, it's really good. Take place a Governor's ball. No, but there's probably some overlap

with creepy backstory, so I recommend that show. I like shows that are like also about like you know, high school romance and then there's a cyborg right yeah, Like there's a lot of I mean, there's stuff that's sci fi because it involves aliens. But like I sincerely loved going and like discovering sat like for the first time. Um because I had seen just the move one of the movies and then I was like looking through it about a year ago when I was doing my short

lived anime podcast. Shout out to its cool like anime. Uh, shout out to Michael B. Jordan's Oh my God, as if as if I needed any other reason, it's so adorable. Um. He set a Naruto thirst trap for you. Um, but yeah, that that I mean that that's like about an alien girl who like is obsessed with this you know, ship head earthling boy. But it's like not really, it's just a romantic comedy. It's just like Peanuts but a little

Pervier or something. I like that light sci fi where like everything is normal and then at the end you find out somebody was a robot the whole time. Um. The other thing that I was going to recommend, um, well, I was going to recommend it's also scary, but like Molly and I love Perfect Blue, which is more just

like a kind of thriller. I was just thinking about that because I was like, that's not sci fi, but it like won't help you sleep and no no, And it's definitely like there's something kind of like kind of psychological at the very least going on in it. Um, it is a genre. It's like a crime movie. It

feels like it feels like it's the Palma movie kind of. Um. But also Santos Coon's film Millennium Actress is probably it's probably tied with Perfect Blue from my favorite of his, and that one is like it's just about this actress who's remembering kind of her life intertwined with all the roles that she did over the years, and it's just

really beautifully animated and all these sort of things. Because it's animation, you can kind of just like have these things flow, these different episodes in her life flow into one another very seamlessly in like a really incredible way. And um, I recommend that movie to anybody, whether they're into animation or not, because it's just a great story well told. As they say test tests. Are you watching any weird animated shows? Because you often introduced me to

some very weird animated shows. You know. I'm getting a lot of my animated shows from children's shows right now, which by which I don't hate like I would say

I did be lying they're really weird. I have been watching p J Masks, which is kind of like anime light and apparently my one of my children is very into cat Boy um, and that's a thing at which a lot of yeah, Catboy, he he is a boy who turns into cat boy, and then there's outlet who turns into an owl and one that's like a get go um, which I you know, I feel like lizards always get like kind of misrepresented in animation because it's like, you know, you'll have like a gecko who changes colors

like a chameleon. You're like, those are discreet. You can't do that. I heard Rango is good, not Rango is fantastic, because it's like Chinatown Rango is great, and also Rango has it hits you on some visceral levels, like there are certain scenes that you'll think of I was, I was unexpectedly really really drawn to you were watching something for a long time that involved like planes with human faces. Oh, Planes Fire and Rescue, Molly the movie Plane starring Dane Cook.

That was not my choice. Okay, that was really not my choice. Is that the Disney one that went straight to DVD or straight to Blu ray or whatever. I think Planes Fire and Rescue got a wide Really it was like, you know, it's basically the like shitty version of Cars, you know which, By the way, Cars one I like still weep. I love I love cars, Cars, and Cars to was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Right, Cars three was okay, none of the cars,

but I love cars. Cars. If you love cars Land, you'll love Cars because it's just like like I wish it had no plot, and it was just shots of like root, just the cars driving around. The heartbreaking movie.

I mean, honestly, it's it's a very poignant movie. Um yeah, I've seen at this point, I've seen all of them, Like we're there's some really there are some really like terrible, terrible children's shows that I won't name, but I will just say that, Like it's strange when you get used to watching you know, this certain style of animation, and then you start seeing what looked like you know, mass produced, like very flat, like expressionless, you know, circular faces and

stuff that are just going to be you know, they're being churned out, and like younger kids really like them.

But even kids who are like you know, I have a I have a five and a half year old, and it'll sometimes just be like there's something off, and I'm like, oh, that's called something being like bad like that it's because it has no quality too, Like it's it's bad, like that's you're reacting to, Like it's your first the intrusion of badness into your art where you can like discern that it's bad because it's low quality, and you can tell that that somebody does not respect

you because they did not make this look better. But I mean, like Daniel Tigers Neighborhood, I hate that I've derailed Conrado's question this way. I'm sorry you've got the knowledge. I was never a Mr. Rogers person. In Daniel Tigers Neighborhood is like a spinoff of Mr. Rogers with like Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood's been going on for a while. I believe it's in it's like ninth or tenth season. Um, and it is. It's it's a very it's a very strange.

It's it's all about emotions basically, and it takes place on this island that has like every single climate. It's like a beachfront and you know, it has a forest and it snows, but it's also like bombing all the time. They have all this like weird wildlife. There's an enchanted garden, but it's just like a bunch of animals having feelings. But they also have like there's this whole sorry, but there's like a royal family and their names are like

King Monday. Yeah, they have a trolleys. Yeah. Anyway, Um, I was always a little confused by that because it's like they live in Mr. Rogers House. Now they're his neighbors, the land of make believe. It's the land of make believe. But I was always like, is he the god of the He's the landlord of the land of make Like those Twilight zones where you find like a miniature society and then you sucking up accidentally. So maybe at the opposite end of a spectrum on which one end is

a phantom thread. I wanted to talk a little bit about, um, the modern online fashion retail experience, specifically as it pertains to well. We could get into it on a few different angles, but I mostly wanted to talk about Chinese fashion because I noticed something that I have talked about with you guys before and in in a offhand way or just shared links to, like goofy shirts that cost four dollars on romwe dot com. Um. But I kind

of also had an experience that has to do with gowns. Um, uh fucking chic some fuy gowns um that led to uh some really interesting and hilarious googling. Um. So so if if nobody I feel like this is something that everybody's encountered, like just the the automatic ads for these sites that have very trendy, um you know, sometimes a

little like actually weird and an interesting way. Um, like articles of clothing that are all these um these Chinese sites and everything is just like two dollars or something and uh, but that that exists also for wedding dresses, um, which has been a thing that I've had to investigate.

And so there were definitely like a few dresses that I liked, and apparently I was not the only person, because they were popular enough that they had been ripped off by these um these Chinese sellers that are mostly I mostly ran into it on eBay UM because if you search for you know, whatever the designer is in the name of the dress and everything, then you'll start to see all these like thirty dollar wedding dresses pop up that look exactly like the one that you liked.

And Um, I was like, this can't this, this is too good to be true, Like it can't actually look like that, And so I did some research and I sent you guys the link to the Daily Mail post. I feel like this has also been covered on BuzzFeed to just these like hilariously not the dress in the picture, dresses, the quotes from people in the article were so funnycuse they were like, my fifteen dollar wedding dress doesn't look

like like five million wedding dress, but I thought have happened. Um, I wanted to know who were all these people that were like, I'm buying a fifteen dollar wedding dress. I mean, we all wanted to be real. I mean, I'm I'm I'm in the process of planning a wedding right now

and it is h not a cheap activity. And if you could save some money on some on a non address maybe, especially if it's address you think you're only going to wear once, which I justified my to myself so any moore because I was like, I am going to wear this more than once, um, and not have to be a wedding dress. But still, you know, people are off that you meant like, I'm going to have like ten weddings. Some use out of it. That's a black widow never cursed. Somebody should sew that into my

my dress. That would be great. Um. Um. Most of these sites so I think, yes, style was when I had heard of, um, but yeah, some of them do. Some of them also sell on Amazon as well. Because I ordered something that was it was one of two times that I've ordered something and before I opened the box,

I was like, what does this smell like poison? And then you open the box and it's like poison smell, Like it just pops out and you realize like this has been sprayed by like you know, it's chemically it's all made of like plastic and chemicals and it kind of comes off on your fingers and the sizing was weird, and I was just like, you, I want to hear an Amazon horror story. Y um. My landlord was like, don't order things from Amazon because like maybe from individual sellers.

You know. He said that he had gotten a box from Amazon that had cockroaches in it when he opened the box, and I was like, that that might happen. That's horrible all the time. Let's never order from Amazon ever again. So that'll make life easy. You have to really look at the seller on it um and and you know, you check that stuff out because I think I think that Amazon kind of slowly became this global marketplace.

Then everything looks and feels like buying from Amazon, when in fact you're shopping from like tens of thousands of these different retailers online like that was also in that kind of um similar to that video thing that I shared with you guys, that the the the YouTube industrial like Child's Magnet video thing. Um, you know, the super violent Elsa from Frozen videos. Yeah. Sorry, I was having a hard time tram to forgoe out how to describe that.

But like there's the equivalent of that that he talks about that's on Amazon. Is like these companies that just make phone cases, but they'll just automatically create these phone cases from stuff that people google. So like there are all these medical images you get on cell phones and I guess they took them down because like but nobody was like paying attention to what was it was like medco sits bath cell phone. Yeah yeah, um but yeah, so like I've so I've had like some good experiences

getting this stuff. This is a thing, Like I feel like sometimes these things gets get a bad rap. I got I ordered something, they get a bad I mean, sorry not to be the horrible person, but they get a bad rap because a lot of them involved sweatshops and slave labor. Yeah yeah definitely. But you know, so do clothes and department stores is the thing. It's like, you know I'm not saying that I don't buy stuff

that is bad and I shouldn't buy it. That's probably my biggest weakness is like Forever one, you know, because you're like, oh, it's so cheap, you don't think about it. I have. I mean, I I love and admire people who are like I've stopped shopping fast fashion places. But

that's privilege. Not all of us. We have no but you know, uh, Lacy from Big Bud Press, which is like an independent fashion designer that I really like, she was posting because like Forever twenty one ripped off one of her shirts and she was posting about it because she was like, look at the shirt in the store, and she was like, somebody got paid to so this by hand, Like this wasn't like it didn't come out of like a machine like you want to think it did.

Like somebody got paid not enough to make this. And like our shirts because we pay people the right amount and they're also handmade, uh and ethically made, you know. And I do think it's one of those things where it's like, sure, it's easy to tell people to buy stuff that's nice, but most people are going to buy the cheap stuff because it's what they can afford. Well,

like I had to. I try never to a shop at H and M now, and I never really shop forever twenty one anyway, But H and M is like, for a long time was very convenient to my office in Manhattan. And I had an instance where I literally had to go to H and M because I was at the gym around the corner and like a shirt that I had, I just worn it so many times and it literally fell apart in the gym, so I like put my coat on over my my top and like ran into the H and M to just buy

an article of clothing to cover myself up. I had to go to. I was like going to a wedding in New York, and I like had to buy a dress to go to a wedding, and I was like, I'm going to go to H and M and spend fifteen minutes and like the Midtown H and M just like trying on every dress inside. I'm sorry. I just love Times Square. As you know, you're psycho. If you don't live in New York, it's very easy to like Times Square because in your mind it just exists like

in a snowblow. But I also love like Hollywood Boulevard. I just love I love seeing the people. Well I am a psychic. The other thing I the other I mean, I I agree. I'm glad that you brought up the sweatshout aspect because I think that is the most important thing to keep in mind. Um and my my main guilt right now is that, like, I have a winter coat. So when I moved to New York and I was like, oh,

I can't wear like a like a little windbreaker. When I remember, because I remember right before you moved to New York, you were like, oh, maybe I can wear like a cute coat. Yeah, I'm so excited to finally have an opportunity to wear like my cute like Pendleton coat or something. And then like a month later you were like, this coat does not Yeah. No, I have to buy like a sleeping bag to like and I

hate those things so much. Also, there hell expensive like a Patagonia coat, like a sleeping sleeping bad coat is like six hundred or seven hundred dollars um. Like if you want to have ethically sourced down in your winter coat, that keeps you, you know, from dying on the streets of New York. And when the temperature goes below, you know, fifteen degrees, I better make friends with some geese, my friend. I know, but but like I got so I got this coat then totally off of Amazon, and a total

Chinese fash fash and down coat. And I don't know where the funk these geese came from, Like it's probably I don't even want to know. But this thing has been, you know, serving me for three years. I get compliments on it all the time, and I'm probably gonna have to retire it because it is sort of falling apart. And when I sit down sometimes a movie screens, there's like a little cloud of feathers that it's not the most well maint thing in the world, but it's keeping

me warm. And it wasn't it wasn't six hundred dollars. It was like my number one. I'm like, I browsed those sites a lot, but I rarely actually order anything, but I like to browse in general. And there was, in fact, now that you say fucking chic, there was one that I always like, have my finger on the trigger, but haven't thought that is a shirt that's like the dog Day Afternoon logo. I like things for graphic design

just gets scrambled. So there's one. There's one that's the dog Day Afternoon logo, but the text instead of dog day Afternoon says same chic, different day. And I'm just like, how did this happen? Would I wear this? I feel like I have really I go through phases where I just really hate having to buy clothes and think about

clothes and coordinate clothes and and put myself together. And I'm in one right now because of the shift from just normal jeans to these crazy, you know, weird cropped wide leg and they're all called like mom jeans, and I'm an actual mom, and I know that I don't

want to be wearing mom jeans. So the last time this happened was the shift from when everything was kind of like mod and I was in my early to mid twent these and I felt like it was okay to wear these really sort of cheesies sixties rip off things, and then everything shifted and I felt like I didn't like anything I saw. So I went to um the

Rose Bowl flea market and they had these. I honestly think that they were burlap sacks that had been made into these like tent dresses that were off white and they had like initials sewn in them, and there was a deal on you could get like three of them. So I just started wearing these knee length sacks with these weird short They would just look like, I mean, it looked like I was wearing like, you know, I don't know, like a baby's outfit kind of, but they were.

I was like, I love this because it's so aggressively ugly that it seems like like I'm doing my own style, but it's not. It's just ugly. You know, really hot people can wear ugly stuff. That's like the whole That's what art school is, right, But if you're like not a really hot person, but you just feel really alienated by things, I mean I have a hard time also

because I am I am very stingy. But I also don't want to shop at Forever twenty one and H and M and Zara and like, you know, support sweatshops. So instead I buy strange clothes from thrift stores and then where things that are mine from like a really like, I still wear pants that I had in high school, which seems like it should not be okay to do, and maybe isn't Um, I'm amazed that they haven't fallen apart, because I have jeans that I've bought in the last

three years that are falling apart. Actually all they have a part right now, they have fallen apart, but I still feel entitled to wear them. I was the person who always wore jeans until they were completely falling apart and like not acceptable in public, and then I stopped touring jeans for like a couple of This is so boring. I like to hear about people's fashion fantom till he's like when he's like, you have to like move forward.

You can't like stay stagnant like the fat You have to change with the times or like they'll leave you behind. Where I was like always talking about movies and fashion. Well, the funny thing about the burlap sack thing reminds me of is like another thing like that became a somewhat. It was like our conscientious version of fast fashion for so long, which was American Apparel Um, specifically the American

Peril Factory store downtown. But I remember, like I so there was a period of time in my life when I used to do sketch comedy and I used to do sketch comedy with a friend of mine where we played American apparel models and um, I basically spoke in this voice and I'm speaking in right now. Um. But one thing that we did is like, well, you actually just bought stuff from the factory store because it was

so cheap. But they just make these like cave women dresses like they were just they were just like pillowcases that had a neck cut out in the top, and we would just get the biggest size of them that we could and just like basically look like like just like somebody threw some fabric on us and threw a belt on us, and and uh, just totally overdo that aspect of it. But then I also just like kept

the dress that I bought and wore it. Likes and I are both really into like wearing something because we think it's funny, and then it just becomes the thing you wear at the time and then someone's like what are you doing, and you're like, it's funny. There was a dinosaur hat that we got a baby gap that

we shared custody of in college. I don't know what happened to that hat, and I'm wearing it in a lot of photos on my Facebook from like it was it was a child sized hat that somehow we stuffed onto our adult sized heads, and it was like it wasn't it was just to be silly. But then it's like you're walking around it was very warm. It was hate. Yeah, I mean it's been freezing here, which you know, obviously I'm using that term loosely because it's been like degrees

sometimes forty at night. Nobody knows what to do, including me. I like was getting dressed last night to go out at night, and I was like, Okay, I've got like two layers on. I don't know what to do after that, Like, I don't know what the next step up is. I'm wearing all my clothes, so I've been like throwing on a blanket cape a lot. Sometimes I see myself in

a mirror and I'm like, I look crazy. The one thing that I will spend money on that's closed are Kashmere socks because you can wear anything on the rest of your body, and if you wear Kashmire socks or anything, yeah, yeah, I'm sure my parents go get them on sale and then I like take them. The one thing I bought from a Chinese fast fashion site that doesn't even exist

anymore and I can't remember what it was called. Um, but I bought a knockoff of the Coach knockoff of the sweater from the show Yeah Pallo Levan sweater because I really wanted it. I was never gonna get the Coach version and somebody made it not. Yeah. Sometimes I'll wait for someone to knock off something that I like that's like fancy and I'll never buy, but I'm like,

I'll buy a knockoff. I love how many layers of meaning there are there because it's it's shining via Coach via Chinese bass fashion shite like well stuff is great. My favorite one that came up recently because I do also just look them, look at them for graphic design because sometimes there are just like I like, you know, when something is like a cop stepped on copy of something,

it gets weird. So there was one that was really good that was, you know, I make fun a lot of all the like sort of fake feminist uh commerce that's been happening recently, just like shirts that are like I'm a feminist and coughton. This shirt cuff shirt cost ten dollars because it was sown by people who were making you know, pennies in Bangladesh, right, all that stuff.

There's like the high fashion version of that, and then the like literal sweatshop knockoff of like this is being made by like a woman who is being underpaid, so like, no, it's not feminist to wear this, uh, But there was one that was a knockoff of the Guerrilla Girls Manifesto,

which is an eighties feminist artist manifesto. It says the benefits of being a female artist, and it's like this famous manifesto where it's like the benefits of being a famous of being a female artist, and then it's all these things that suck about being a female artist. That's like always being referred to in conjunction with your partner if they're in the art world, like never being taken seriously, like having lots of free time to work on stuff

because like people are hiring your male peers. Just all these things, and so then this was like you know, someone had made a shirt out of it, and then the stepped on copy of it was like benefits of being a female artist, and then all the text was just like garble, was like just letters together that don't spell words, and I was like, this is so funny because it's like makes exact. I posted about it on Twitter and some female artists who I follow was like

I bought it because it was too good. I'm about to buy it as well. Well. I was like, also, like the big joke about it that sucks is like nothing has changed since the female artists like this was very you know, edgy at the time, and it's still edgy because like that stuff is all true. That's amazing. So yeah, I U. I enjoy browsing in general. I like to browse and not buy, and that's my general. My general. Just send links to your friends and it

feels as good as wearing the shirt exactly pretty much. Well, I think you want to support If you want to support independent commerce, check out Big bud Press because they make great unisex stuff for everybody, and they've been doing a fundraiser and Lacy is cool cool and that was not even I just like, out of the goodness of her heart. Con Yeah, she just makes shirts that look like things I would want to wear. Anyway, I feel like tests you would really like it. I'm on you

check it out. It's so weird. How how much this sounds like an ad but isn't it worked on me? I was like, I will go by that stuff. It was not even an ad store. Thank you everybody for listening to this week's Nightcall Um Fashion Pod. Yeah, this has been the fashion Special Fashion Special Um brought to you by Big Press dot Com. Just kidding it not really. Uh. Maybe we can all learn to like sew our own clothes. Yeah I tried once. It will get gone well for me in the past. I can sew a button and

I'm very proudly exactly. Please if you if you listen to this podcast, if you like it, subscribe to us. Uh, leave us a leave us a review, give us a rating on iTunes, and you can follow us on Twitter at Night Call Pod And uh, what are the other ones? The Facebook podcast and Facebook? Facebook is yes, Facebook dot Com Forward slash Night Call Podcast. And every time we have done a podcast, I'm like, what's the Facebook name? Again?

What's the Facebook? So I wrote it down and now I told you, Um, we have a pool going which will probably read the results of next week about reu Harrison Ford. Uh oh yeah, no one agrees with me. By the way, shockingly, I haven't checked it recently, I need to the people who do agree with you are going to agree with you the most. That's what passionate, always passionate for um. But yeah, thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. Uh and we'll talk to this soon.

And give us a call with all of your phantom thread and non phantom thread related inquiries at one to four oh four six night or just fashion advice. Yeah, we clearly are skilled enough to give it. You can also email us at night, call podcast at We are equally good at styling and giving marital agoust totally. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.