99: A GOOPy Cocoon With Jane Marie

The first season we have talked about on the show talked about multi level marketing schemes and the current second season, which is about to wrap up, right sweet about the wellness industry again, we've talked about that. We are obsessed. We're a big fan. So thank you so much for joining us today. Welcome, Thanks for having Yeah we uh, we've been talking about wellness influencers and Goop and all sorts of stuff like that. UM, but we had a question about going back to your first season, UM and

the MLMs. We had a night email from a listener and she writes, I have a lot of family and friends who have joined MLMs and have also taken dumb supplements. Despite my protests that these are dumb and expensive. My sister has poured money into m lms. It always fizzle out near um our bond some amwe website. My ex husband would take this liquid supplement Sea Silver religiously, even when I said there's no proof it worked. Then the company had to pay four point five million in FDC finds.

And even after that, my X still wouldn't admit that he was wrong. I don't know how to get over for only that I was right and they were wrong and they won't admit it. Any advice on what I can do. Wow, that well, that's a whole I mean, this is advice for your whole life. Just like relationships something to do with UM MLMs, I'd say, you can't

control anybody. Yeah, that's my advice that you'd move on from that idea, especially because these are I'd compare sort of mlm s and being really into wellness with like faith based belief systems. Try changing that for anyone UM and not saying that you're a messiah of some sort of just trying a regular person to like d program someone out of their religion. It's impossible. But the bigger

piece of advice is just like mind your own business. Um, you did like a little bonus season in between the first and second season, and I remember you had an episode that was like about a guy who specifically kind of he gets people out of but then he was kind of also talking about how like a lot of the same techniques apply to getting people out of m l M s. And it's like you can't be like you were so stupid to get hoodwinked or whatever. It's tricky.

I mean you have to. By the way, my favorite cult extractor who's on Dr Phil all the time is named Rick Ross. Actually he's awesome anyway, Ross right right, I just read a hurricane Have you checked it out? His autobiography. I wasn't fascinating large type did really easy readons didn't get anybody out of a cult. Now, Um, quite the opposite. Um, Now I think like, yeah, you have to meet them where they are and be like, of course, I can see why this is something you

might be into. Let's talk about the ways that it's made your life smaller or whatever that it's made it, you know, made stress on your relationships. But in my experience, like when you're talking about life and which is what wellness is talking about. Um. That's a pretty good counter argument from believers, which is like, well, if I don't do this, I'm going to die. And you're like, so you're killing me by trying to get me out of this weird cult. And then you have to just say

drink your silver and see silver. Do people just send your podcast to family members? I tell them to all the time. I'm like, hey, listen, my family listened to it. They still love me. Um. People are smarter than you give them credit for. I think what you need to remember about people who are involved in m l m S or super into wellness, a lot of them are brilliant geniuses, like legitimately really smart worldly people. So don't treat them like babies when you want to talk to

them about a disagreement. Treat them like the educated people that they're claiming to be and say like, look, here's a different opinion, and if not, if nothing else, they'll like at least have like something to yell at you about the next time you guys hang out together. But people are smart enough to hear criticism and then either take it or move on. This again seems like great general advice as well. Yeah, yeah, treat your audience like

they're smart. Um. I wanted to ask you about what the newest wellness trends that you have seen have been. You mean, don't drink water? People who don't drink water? Wait, there was an article is this dry fasting or whatever? Y fasting? Nothing sounds of work. I learned about it from an article that was like the wellness influencers who

don't drink water and that's their thing. Okay, First of all, all of their before photos look like they had a real good night out the night before, you know what. Like that that's their their eyes, eyes are puffy or whatever, and they look tired, or they're retaining water, maybe for some other health reason. Why is your body retaining water? Why are you bloated? Maybe? Like look into that and instead they're just like, oh, I can add this to my list of eating disorders. Like I don't have to

call it what it really is. I can call it dry fasting, or I can say I've only drink you know, but don't even people with eating disorders drink water normally. This is like the idea of someone being like no water, it's just a new eating disorder. All of this stuff isn't eating. Doesn't water good for you? I don't want to drink that much water. But as soon as you said dry fasting, I was like, Wow, I'm so thirsty for water. Maybe it's a great kind of reverse psychology thing.

I just got to get that mad Max Fury road body. I love water, and also I can't live with was a water addict. When I was going to labor and they were like, you can't have water, just ice chips at this certain point in labor. This is the worst part of having anxiety when someone says you can't have water. After I went to the dentist and they were like, don't drink anything through straw because you might like bite your tongue off when they give you prepared you for

the novocaine. I just it is scary. Anytime they're like, don't do a thing, You're like, I have to just reading the article. But I also love water well at least like dry fasting doesn't sound like it involves buying anything, quite the opposite. So it's like Firth, you go on the Goop website, I'm sure, okay. So we're arguing about Goop a lot on nightcall there's a pro group flank. It's actually it's just me test is more on your side.

I'm in the middle. I don't think that Gwyneth is Joe Rogan, although someone else on Twitter after moll wasn't you Okay, I don't think I personally find her less objectionable than Joe. Criminals, Okay, that's fine. I think, Um, well, that's it. I just took a super long criminal who sells fake cures for ill illnesses that could kill people if they don't like what I mean. Well, for one, she's familiar with like the Yoni eggs and stuff and

starting like that's a light thing. Besides that, it was saying that it would control hormones, which are something you should tap into and think about if you're going through perimenopause or menopause, and it could mean any amount of I mean, you can have like hormone or flora issues that have to do with cervical cancer or that have to do with like other serious illnesses, and claiming that these things would cure that. Um, there's other things where

it's like, don't take these ten antibiotics. She promotes colloidal silver, the stuff that turns you blue. Yeah, I didn't know that silver is that the same thing as sea silvery. It's it's silver particles suspended in water, and over time it builds up in your cells and permanently turns your

skin blue and does pretty much nothing else. It's toxic to your body and does nothing else, Like it used to be used back in the Again, these are all like medieval cures or whatever, like, yeah, exactly, you used to put silver on on wounds. Um, And I guess I'm not sure of like the action of it, but like it can prevent bacterial infections but antimicrobial but not anti virals to drink, yeah, and your pillow com it's

for the four humors. Yeah. So Gwyneth, I mean like, look, I don't think she's actually like went out and murdered anyone. But I don't think she's careful enough about the products that she sells, and I don't think she doesn't due diligence. And I think she puts ideas out there that's like whatever, try whatever works for you, and you're like, you know what, you're talking to cancer patients That to me is the

Joe Rogan thing. And it's not just them, it's a lot of like cable talk shows, or they'll just be like, let's have a personnel in selling something obviously bad and like give them their say, well, you build a giant platform, and then anything that seems as though it fits with your brand you kind of welcome in. So I say, on Shark Tank, they always shut that ship down to me because my hero on that stuff where he's like, show me the papers, show me the stuff, and then

he's like, get out of here, you're a fraud. I mean, be nice. Mark. That's a weird best friend too, because it helps make the rest of the stuff they do look more legitimate. It's also like they're selling you like dumb garbage he needs you don't have that, but they're like, we will not sell you in your blood yeah, or something that says like you're never going to get another cold,

or like this will help your dog not get cancer. Anyway, I am so anti It actually makes me want to cry as I start talking about her, because first of all, she has other ways of being famous that she's really good at. She can just act, and that still also makes a lot of money. I don't understand she can do nothing and still have a lot of money. The idea that you have to like, the idea that she feels compelled to step in as a basically as a

medical professional, is um. I think, yeah, I think that there's like a whole side of this that has not like she's never discussed, but I've just sort of like put it together through context. And I think that she has probably gone through some fucked up ship with like her own healthcare and stuff. I think that people turned to alternative medicine sometimes, but I think I think specifically for her, she started group like after she had had

her kids. I talked about this when we had our big group discussion, and UM, and she thought she was fat. She described herself as having a but she also like had severe postpartum depression, and I don't think that she was probably like getting the help that she needed for that.

And I think, I don't know. I mean, I think also now we know she had a hard time as an actress and in the industry, and I think I can imagine getting like having a genuine existential crisis where you're like, what if I am called to do the thing completely different besides just being an actress like everybody likes. UM. I mean, I have a little bit of sympathy for her with that, Like I think, so I think, be that person. Don't sell me anything, you know, don't don't

give health advice. You're not a doctor. Don't go on doctor oz. We all know. I feel like that's the thing too. It's like when when Goops started, to my mind, it was more about like what are the fancy hotels about, like this fantasy rich person life of Like what are these like the most expensive, nicest like accessories that are

every month or yeah. But it was like I sort of understood it as like you read it as this lifestyle porn of like what's it like to be a person who's just like so wealthy all they do is go on vacation and buy stuff and not have to buy any of the stuff to feel that. But at a certain point it definitely became more about like health and wellness in tune with general trends around that, uh that are sort of like pseudo feminist, which is what

I find offensive about it. Also, it's also one of the big defenses people say, well, it's okay that she's you know, selling fraudulent stuff or making fraudulent health website. She's getting young girls to look at their vaginas, and it's like you can have one without the other. I'm so sorry, but you can still be super famous one with Paldrow and get young girls to look at their vagina. It was just like culture goes to high school health classes. Yeah, Like my question is do you how aware do you

think that she is? She's fully aware, but I mean, like, do you think that she has conviction that she's right? What was that last lawsuit that you were posting about. UM? The most recent one, um Well Truth and Advertising found that she violated her order to stop making false health claims and they found like fifty new ones on the

website in the in the last few months. UM. Last year was the Jade settlement out of court um and where they they did this kind of like fuck you response where they ended up posting these like kind of short health articles with like a bibliography that's like five pages longer than the article itself to be like see all of the evidence. But then they're still selling stuff

in their shop. UM and anyway, they violated their agreed upon out of court settlement court order to stop making unsubstantiated fault health claims, and UM, I just think like, I'm sorry that got me off track. What was the question before that? I mean I was just curious about like because you're saying it's like she can if so this is something that comes up also with the people who own mlmah. I feel like I don't know anyone like these people for a reason. They're not my friends.

They're not my friends. My family members are their victims. But I've met, I've brushed up against I think similar personality types to these sorts of folks, and it always feels wrong and like you need to get out of the room as fast as you can. I don't know what that is. I don't know if that's the if that's an answer to your question, But I don't know what she's thinking because I'm always curious, Like like as you said, I mean, I don't have in my inner

circle anybody who like is actually hawking MLMs. But friends and acquaintances have tried to sell me MLMs mostly like the young living kind of stuff, and it's hard for me to even tell it a certain yes, yeah, it's young living the essential oils. Can you explain that for listeners who might not know you can get young living oils?

Is a Christian essential oils company who's founder, um Gary Young, killed his baby in a water birth where he left her underwater for an hour in his unlicensed wellness clinic in Spokane, Washington in the early eighties, and then went

to jail. And then uh took off from Spokane, moved to southern Califor when you started a vitamin company, then moved to Tijuana to start a cancer clinic where he analyzed people's blood in the from samples they sent him in the mail, and then he would tell them what kind of cancer they had and then either cure them remotely or charge them ten thousand dollars to come to his clinic and be fully cured of their cancer. He's

like the craziest villain. I actually feel like he may have been covered on behind the bastards, which if he was, I think he was. Yeah, I'll link it. I didn't know that. I thought you meant like maybe he poisoned

him with essential oil. But also there's a huge overlap, and we've talked about this on the show before, and I know that it probably comes up a lot for you as well, But as a mom, you're targeted, and Emily brought it up in terms of like the postpartum depression and when you're particularly vulnerable to that kind of stuff. But there was just today an article I think NBC

News about the free birth thing. I don't know if you saw that, but it's like a horrible it's just a horrible and it and it you know, in terms of talking about like making false medical claims and kind of tying it in with like the idea of well,

if you know, why not try it? If it's like because a woman was going on Facebook as she knew her baby was dying because her duel and midwives were like, don't go to the hospital, don't go to the hospital, and she was like asking like these Facebook groups and her and everyone was like just feel you feel it. Your body is just doing And also she was a month overdue with any obstetrition. Would never let someone do.

But I mean, it's when you talk about the dangers of of you know, goop and stuff like that, it is true that the way that this kind of leads into like how women and mothers in particular are targeted, and then the danger that that brings with it is I want to say, also there's like a different sector of this that involves like rich white women scams that are like more on the group side. And then there's also people that I'm like, I understand like why people

seek out alternative medicine. Like the whole medical system is definitely like super were screwed up, super screwed up, super racist, not organized around women's kneed, especially like women of color. You know, like when people yeah, again, it's like it's not like a failing of somebody that they don't find American medicine to be like fully satisfying. And I think that there's a there's a definite, like legitimate reason to

look elsewhere. I think, Um, I wish that Gwyneth palt would sit down and in front of me and I could shake her and be like, this isn't about beauty and youthfulness and being skinny and being pretty and having nice skin. Think for like two extra seconds about what you're actually telling people these products can do, and think about who might be buying them and who you might be hurting. Yeah, I just thought no one could afford them.

You'd be surprised. I went to the Group Store and the Brentwood country Mark when there was like a pop up of it they're just like out of curiosity, and I was like, there's an audience for this stuff. It's like a solid gold BUILDO want to know about the dildol. Dildos also doesn't say does it say like it does anything? It does? I don't know. Let's look it up. I'm sure it cannot be anti microbial. It's a very soft metal.

While you look like that up, Jane, We're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to talk about um gold dildos and old people and peoples. We're back. Um. So it turns out the gold dildo is not a Goop product. It's just sold on group. But it's called and it costs. There's a couple of different versions. I think like lives matters size, Like is there like a gold plated version if you're

like on a budget? I bet. I mean if I were the manufacturers, I would do it doesn't say like it attracts cosmic vibrations of the universe. No, it has a bulbous end to stimulate your G spot or something like that. I should hope. So I'm make sure the only person buying it is someone who wants Okay, now this person is so gross. We don't like this person, but like, it's a dude who wants to use it as like a paperweight on their desks. Oh my god, you know that guy? Yeah, kind of funny joke. Yeah,

we have some other scary health news. Um that came out in an article in Jezebel. Um. A new report found that on demand therapy app Better Help, as well as some other therapy apps, have been sharing sensitive and personal information with third party apps. Yeah it's great, isn't it, um, I will from the article. Facebook, for instance, is alerted every time a person opens the app, essentially signaling to the social media company how often we were going to

a session and when we booked our appointments. To confirm Facebook's retention of this information, we downloaded personal data from Facebook and identified the associated records from Better Help. During a session with a therapist, we found that metadata from every message, though not its contents, was also sent to the social media company, meaning that Facebook knew what time of day we were going to therapy, are approximate location,

and how long we were chatting on the app. M See, this is another one of these things like that, Because there's a few of these, right there's like talk space. U is talk Space? Did they have the I think talk space was mentioned I want to use something creepy guys. Sure, But after I sent you this article, I got asked for it in my Instagram and yes, do you Siri? No,

but I was she typed it, you googled it. I may have googled the word suicide at some time recently that started serving me ads for therapy and I thought that was really funny. It was when were you talking last night? Yeah, okay, um, not no worries everybody. We were talking about something different. Um. But but I was like, that's so weird that it's like, hey, feeling bad, I'm

a computer. Well. I think also that I think that these apps really the way that they sell themselves, because I've heard I've heard podcast ads for talk Space and stuff like this, um, is that they take advantage of the very very true fact. Again, this is like all the wellness industry things that it is so fucking hard

to get a therapist. It takes forever, it's expensive. Uh, it's usually not covered or the coverage is like very like a morphous like somebody can say they're covered by one thing on their website, and they're not when you actually ask them, um, And I think that that's like a genuine frustration, and like people talk about like I think that there's more of a conversation about mental health now than there has been in the past, and everybody

like people destigmatizing therapy and like encouraging people to go to therapy. But it's so hard to go to therapy even if you couldn't afford it um, which a lot of people can't. And I think it's like very it's very insidious that like these apps are taking advantage of that to like sell like and the cost is just your personal in for bucks an hour, right, So they got to make up the difference somewhere because they're real therapists.

On the other end of the line, there are they. Yeah, there are people who maybe somewhere remost not just a smarter child. Well, the other thing is, so the information is you're assigned a number, so it's your name is not being revealed until the FBI asked, but it's also being shared. Your data is being shared with an analytics and research company called Mixed Panel, which um Jezebel's report kind of suggests might be the basis for a chunk of the book Uncanny Valley as like you know, her

kind of lamenting having worked for a surveillance company. Um, but they received information and that had been made anonymous. However, they had more information this analytics firm, so they knew, um, how old we were, whether we considered ourselves spiritual or religious, financial status, sexual orientation. This is also very similar to a practice run by a super famous cult who signed we can see out the window here, but we don't have to name in case because we've already talked enough

about them. We're in Hollywood, California, Hollywood. Um. But it's like a blackmail. It could be used that way. You're telling it sensitive information you might not want people to know, and then you're trusting it to not use that against you. You know, when I fall asleep to Twilight Zone every night, like nothing feels like far off from what they were imagining. I know, Chwilot sounds a little optimistic, the most depressive, honestly,

do you guys? Follow William Gibson on Twitter? He wrote all follow the great cyberpunk books and he's always like, holy fuck, what's happening? Where You're just like, oh, come on Yeah, the guy to the Dystopian Future is like, yeah, yeah, I think like it's interesting to really consider the dangers of this because it's it's not always obvious, it's not always what you think could be the worst case scenario.

I mean, I think like in the article they kind of point out that a combination of financial status and desperation, you can paint a picture of a potential consumer who could really easily be trapped in misled into doing horrible things.

Like it's you initially think like, oh, my privacy, but you know, it's really what it's saying about trends and about like groups that I think is is scared and the Gwyneth Paltrow at that company to make themselves feel like a good person could say, well, we're using the analytics to target ads for people who may not have

access to original conventional therapy to make themselves. That's what's dangerous about like so much Silicon Valley stuff as being like okay, well we have no social infrastructure anymore in anywhere, and like so they thank you, yeah that the book that it creates like gaps in the market that can then be monetized. When it's like, no, what it needs

to be is like free and available to everybody. I just think like between this all the ancestry um and the what's the other I just want to say I call that on Molly Sleazy Friends with Create a Long Worth.

In the first episode, we both went on the record saying we would never give our to the Yeah, yeah, I I mean I know somebody who is doing the ancestry stuff right now, and it's such an It's again, these are like very emotional vulnerabilities to take advantage of with people, because people who like you know, in this case of this person was adopted and doesn't have any idea like with and like that's a very big existential

human questions, super sympathetic, super understandable, and that you know, you're kind of blinded to the like the idea of like, oh my information might be sold is sort of feels abstracted compared to the idea of like, well I could figure out who I am, though, like I guess who runs ancestory dot com. The Mormon's yeah, really yeah, Well that's bad they're not They're they're got some racism going

on in there. Because I saw there was like a really scary campaign because I feel like it's like they've maxed out all the people who would use twenty three in me, and it's like even if you don't use it, like somebody and your family might use it, and then you're a part of the part of the chain. Yeah. Um it came up in that movie, that Netflix movie

Horse Girl. Oh it's so good. Molly Shannon's character is like talking about her results from twenty three and me, although it's got another name that's really funny, play on twenty three and me, and she's like, so, I'm nineties seven percent irishcent this, and then she's like, and one

percent West African, I'm African. That is also that's just what people do when they get these results, you know, it's like the first well, it's like it's all like white people who want to see if there's like something some interesting kind of non white person hidden in there.

But I've also seen like this is the thing that really freaking out recently was like they are bad at tracing the lineage of people who were trafficked over as slaves exactly, and then they were marketing like, hey, we figured it out now like black people come us twenty three and me. We figured out slavery and I figured out without users. Don't I don't even just the idea that they were like marketing it specifically to a black audience, being like, come get your DNA tested. It just seems

so evil and scary. But don't they also am I making this up? But don't they also kind of market it in a wellness capacity of lots of health information. I mean, the thing that's really hard. Everyone just be normal and stop being dicks. It's just like, this is the whole thing in the tech industry, but it, obviously I don't think has come into the wellness industry quite yet. But the idea of like, if something makes money but it's evil, don't do it. But what if it I'm

just playing Devil's advocate. What if it? No, I shouldn't even because I was just thinking. So I had to be tested for the BRACA gene the v r c A gene um and it was crazy expectative. I'm negative, which is great, um, thank you for asking. But there are things like that where I wondered with twenty three and me I was like, obviously, I'm not really excited to give over any kind of d N A M to a weird organization, but they test for I mean,

that's the thing. It's not any nine bucks. Well that's the thing too, is it's like if you're coming into the health care sector, that's horrible. But you guys know that. I'm like a big fan of heal, which is the doctor house called thing, and that is to have doctors who make house call. I I know. But it's again, I mean, it's like there's with twenty three and me. You see how that can that does like exploit a real need, you know, I mean, you're you're risking a

huge thing. These blood tests that I'm sure they're collecting your DNA info as well and probably selling it to or someone. But there's all these new tests that are like spit tests or whatever for food intolerance and what's your perfect item and get the ads and you know they're taking your DNA probably right like read the fine print. I'm sure there's like some money besides what they're going

to sell you back, like they're selling off something. But what if you do if you decide to be like a blood don't or you do be the match or something like that, like I am, and I'm like I need to trust you. I need to trust you be the match and but it's still it's like just the idea of how this is now emerging as a market, and you just swab yourself and send it away and you're like, okay, I guess that's that. Also, if you swap yourself, can they then replicate you in a lap?

They should? Definitely, that would be it. I'd be happy to give them idea. There needs to be more of me I could. I would stay out of the sun trade faces. It would be fantastic and have a backup face. Right, never a bad idea. I keep one in my personal time. If you could twin yourself, would you? You just both said yes, kind of well, I would take the body cart from my twin to me harvest have like a whole discreet me, make sure the clone doesn't take over

and start harvesting you. Right, that's well again, it's risk and reward, Polly, that's with all things. Um. We got a night text, actually a night email. We got both about something slightly less high stakes. Then making a tumble of yourself with your d n A. It's better than you than someone else, right, I'm interested to see what Jamie Rey says about this um okay uh. This is from Evan in Portland, and he is wondering if you all think that a Stop is the yuppie, urban professional

version of Living Oils Pick your alternative health scam. The faux medical packaging and cultish dedication of its users just creeps me out, although I'll admit the medical claims they make aren't quite as ridiculous. But tell me this doesn't read just like a multi level marketing scam. And then there's a review of a silence facial hydrator. Was this from Esquire? Is that right? Did it? Was it an advertorial? It read at least the opener read like an advertorial.

Blow your mind's right here. Beauty sections of magazines are all really just I know, but it was this one. I it seemed like an interview, but it was so advertorially in the intro party. I was like, Wow, they didn't have to disclose this. Um, what do you think of ASoP? I mean, it's not an MLM because you're allowed to sell it in stores. They have their own. However,

it's owned by Natura. I don't I So I found um on an anti MLM Reddit board, just that board I'm quoting just found out one of my favorite skincare brands is owned by Natura, and I'm so disappointed. ASoP is a very high end brand of bath and beauty

products and I've been a long time customer. Yesterday, after making a purchase, I decided to research the company in the hopes of picking up a part time gig in the retail store near me, only to find out that it was purchased by the MLM Natura or Natura, which also now owns the Body Shop. To my knowledge, a stop does not have an MLM component at this time, but I'm still hopping mad. Oh this is fascinating. I

didn't know that. Of course, the body Shop got Bob also bought Avon, which was already and m yeah, um, this is interesting. See, I like when ASoP started to become a thing. I was just like kind of marveling at the idea of like every generation gets its body Shop, and I didn't realize I didn't mean into it that it was like the same thing. Natura is a multi level marketing company that promotes its image as an eco friendly,

sustainable company. The company also uses ordinary women rather than supermodels and advertisements They don't want to pay for anything. Maybe like we're a wholesome brand, so the Natura brand itself is an MLM as well as Avon. I'm assuming stop buying everybody ASoP has a list for you. The number of companies that I think are turning into amos

right now, but I don't. I don't want to. Yeah, if you see a makeup or beauty brand that is starting a campaign that sounds a little bit like a street team or representatives or you know, a brand ambassador for example, beware, I want to say that that's all super fuzzy now too, though, because of influencers, like everybody becomes a de facto. I think that's a step before

it becomes an amount. I will say also that like, what is so sad about MLM culture that also like group is definitely taking advantage of, is that it is like, hey, like women like feel powerless and want to feel like you have like more control about just everything. It's like it is explaining something that's like you can be like the head executive at your own company, which is what all evil geniuses do, right. They look like in the healthcare realm, in in business and whatever you look for

a vulnerable population. You sell them a bullshit story for way more money than you should, and you tell them it's they're getting a great deal on this thing. I mean, we all got suckered by, like the housing and mortgage industry doing the exact same thing. Vulnerable population. Everyone wants a house, Okay, you can do it. I'm going to give you this incredible deal and then I'm gonna abscond with the money and run away, never get in trouble.

And that's just what scammers do. Scammers gonna scam, you know, they have to scam capitalist Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah. And it's worse for sure. It's like, there's not I don't think there's a way to get rid of those bad guys other than to beware and be less trusting, be less trusting about everybody and trade economy guys. Burning man, somebody's still going to stuff something full of like telcom powder and tell you it's you know, flower or whatever

for forty pellets. Exactly, I mean exactly. Well, we're going to take another break, and when we come back, we're going to talk about the greatest wellness industry movie ever made. We'll be back soon. Welcome back, to night Call. So this week we watched Cocoon, film by Ron Howard. This was the suggestion of Jane Mayes. No I thought it would. I don't even remember how we got to Cocoon. I think it's for Spooky Love February. It may What is spooky love about it? Yeah, the aliens come and help.

Maybe we were talking about it for next month, which is spring break March. It has a bunch of elements, It has Florida, it has a juvenating pool. It does all spring break well. Yeah, but it's like a little while, it's like a spa. It also makes you feel young. It makes the really horny love the alien lady yet and like always apprising naked, the naked Lady Raquel Welsh's daughter. Yeah,

it's a good transition from Speakla February into springa. Okay, well, I love this movie, um, and I was pleased to watch it no matter. The reason I've never seen it, I think is also I was like, let's do that because I love seeing big classic movies I've never seen. I love this movie, Cocoon. I really love Cocoon. I didn't know that I would still love it as much as I did when I was like seven years old, but I did, I really did. I know a lot

of people who liked it from childhood. And that's so interesting to me because I think I've watched it maybe when I was like a tween or something, and I thought it was the most boring thing in the world. And every time I've watched it since then, I'm like, more and more into it, get closer. Yeah, I didn't remember what it was about. Like, okay, here's my memories of Cocoon before I revisited. Well, I didn't get to watch the first one again. I watched half of them.

You have seen it. I have seen it, and I couldn't remember what the plot was. And I was sitting with my partner and we're like, what was cocoon? Cocoon was Wilford Brimley, that's for sure years old. What was an old age makeup? Everybody else was twenty years older. Oh, he was an old age makeup. The liver spots and he dyed his hair. Okay, yeah, but he didn't have to do that. But Wilfred Brimley. Um, there were people in the room when I was talking about this who

had no idea who he was. So just let's remind people about diabetes, asked a Quaker oats commercial. Did your daughter not know who Wilford? She wasn't one of them. It was an adult. He also made several campaigns because he didn't want to ban cockfighting or something like that. He had like a bunch of really weird political opinions that he's very be allowed to fight each other, especially

if they're gold plated. And then I remembered Guttenberg was in it, and I was like, remember when Gutenberg was the thing that was weird? But anyway, I knew there was like I completely walked out the alien part. I was like, I knew there was cocoons, and then I had something to do with stopping time or reversing time and being young again. And it was based around a retirement community. That's what I remember. Going into the sequel

did not refresh anything anymore. So talk about the first one, Well, okay, the first one was incredibly hard to find, it was not on streaming, and then we just came up with a potential conspiracy about why right now thought a conspiracy it is that it is a Fox movie, and the distribution rights for a lot of Fox movies are kind of frozen in time right now because they got up by Disney. It's a lambo. I assumed it would have been on Disney Plus, but I'd be Okay, which is

also Disney anyway. It was also checked out from all of the local libraries, which was crazy because I was like, they always someone who has to It was so it was so weird to be like this movie is hard to find, because yeah, it's like any Blockbuster would have like eight copies of Cocoon. You found it at the Cult Video Star, and my question is what were they doing with a copy. I was surprised they had it that it was in the sci fi section because it

is a science fantasy movie like eighties movies. So Cocoon is about a group of retirees at a retirement home in St. Petersburg, Florida. Looks chill would retire, Oh my god.

They like to sneak into a pool a nearby abandoned state, and then some mysterious visitors come and set up shop in this state they rented out, and they also rent a boat from Steve Guttenberg for a mysterious mission, and they start storing these things that are like these Barnarcley pods in the pool, and when the old people swim in the pool, they are miraculously rejuvenated and able to fuck.

And this is like so I don't know when viagara was like introduced, but I like that this was just a movie but basically being like, what if aliens came and they gave us viagara? They no, they were spry and they cured it cured there. One of the guys had cancer in it and he was like magically in remission after swimming in the pool. So I'm saying this is a wellness industry and they are a part of the movie where they were like, damn, we should have

done this sooner. Well, it didn't have the effects of the water. Only only took place once the aliens came and started storing the pods, and so they've been swimming into the pool. But I mean younger people like being like, we should get the young people in here. Why will you st petersburg Berg, I mean if you have to pause time, like, wouldn't you want to do it? He doesn't,

He doesn't want to. He gets in the pool. He gets in the pool, and they has and they what does she They share each other in the female younger female love interest is yeah, Tanny will Choose's daughter. It's one of the aliens, but it's t a h n E. Listener Christina said, is this the movie where Talia Shire rips off a rubber face to show like a pure beam of light? And I was like, yes, but it's Tanny Well is Talia Shire in the signal? She just looks like Talia Shire. She has a Talia Shire looked.

Christina had never seen Cocoon because that scene freak out Well. My husband, I was like, oh, I love this movie as a kid and made me cry. He was like, I was scarred forever because there's a scene where Steve Guttenberg is like kind of like being a peeping tom on the alien and she's undressing and then she takes off her skin like terminator and but the worst, the worst part is when the skin like drops to the floor. It's not even bad and she's keeling it off. It's

that it's like it looks like a car. Then she's an alien and she like comes to the door to be like that you scary. That's a scary Do not like that they are, especially when they're like playing bridge because they hang out too. That's what all Peeping Tom's deserve. Someone peeled their skin suit off. That also reminded me of species and what's their point? What's their point? The aliens? What's there? What are they there? And they're coming back.

They used to live on Earth in ancient times, long ago, long ago. They set up their camp and Atlantis and then that went pear shaped, and so they had to DeCamp and go to another planet. But they left a ground crew. Yeah, they left some like, yeah, some kind of watchman there in Atlantis, which apparently is off the coast of St. Petersburg, Florida. And um, and so they had they came back to just retrieve their comrades who

had been left. And the comrades are in the pod and they look kind of look like they look like they look like they've been doing a dry fast. That's the base of the dry fast. They're like they are like people, um and and they're not doing that great. So they were just stopping off for a second to pick up some fronds. Yeah, because they rented the place that it was like twenty seven days. They rent the boat for twenty seven days, They rent the estate for

seven it is. Yeah, it's it's it's wonderful and what we had to do it with Jane on because but it's also I have to say it is strange romantic because so these so there are couples. Um it is let's see Don Amici is art. His partner is Gwen Verdon of all people. Hello, then Will for Brimley, his wife is Maureen Stapleton. We have Hume Crownin and Jessica Tandy in real life. Um, and then we have heard a Where and Jack Guilford. Who are the couple rows?

Jack Gilford sounds like Tigger from the Cartoons Front. He has just like a very cartoony voice, sounds like a like I don't know Mary cartoony in this movie. But as are they? Yeah, everyone is lovely. Everybody's a real sweetie in this movie. We also have a lot of overlap actor overlap with some night call movies that we've covered. Because Maureen Stapleton was in Reds and heard Aware was in Species, I did not know who was she. I don't know. I saw, I was like, I don't remember.

But now I'm going to go in and do a podcast without looking it up. That is what I did. What I learned about this movie is that it was based on a novel and that it was originally supposed us to be directed by Robert Samakis, which makes total sense because it is super weird for a Ron Howard Movieum, but apparently Zemeckis had just come off a couple of flops and so they replaced him with Ron Howard. He'd get around to his yeah, and then he had something within it and so he got to make back to

the future is um. So the reason I turned the equal off got very It got very There's this thing in sci fi. I love ziy is my favorite genre, but I think there's this thing that happens in a lot of sci fi where everyone around knows that the unbelievable thing happened, and then a slightly adjacent or like something else unbelievable happens, and then everything goes back to normal in their brains, like that can't be right, Like The Stiles, where it's like, we know aliens exist, but

killer bees no crazy. So it started out with that and just kept doing that in the beginning of the movie, where I was like, I think they all got rejuvenated and died in a shipwreck. No, they got taken by aliens, but they're back. That can't be. There's a lot of incredulity at a thing that he fully established in the first I don't think Equel did they. So they come back, they come back, Okay, they just come back. How long after the first movie is the sequel supposed to take place?

Not that long because the little Boy is still the little Boy and Steve Stenberg still little is the little boy from the never Ending Story. That's why he's so Bastian. Yeah, Bastian thread the other day about how to get out of quicksand and everybody was like, why didn't the words for the horse? And you can't reason with a horse. They're like, it's actually easier to get out of the sand. Let us to believe there's also a lot less quicksand the new quicksand like there's no way to get out

of lava. Uh. Yeah, I that makes so much sense that this was meant to be a as a megas. Yeah, it also, like I I did, I didn't know that it was had a score by James Horner. James Horner, Yeah, but it's so obviously has a score by James Horner. It's very Titanic and one song by the guy who did Flash Dance that's like a really good song when they go to the to that song, very silly song of Cocoon Forever Young. Oh yeah, they made a music

video that came out around the same time. They made a music video with all the scenes from I missed those videos or it's just clips from the movie. It's wonderful. So yeah, I didn't know that I was I've never seen Cocoon before. I had no emotional attachment to it. Um. I started just like enjoying it the whole time, definitely thinking about how I would love to live in that

retirement community now. And then when they were on the boat at the end and the ship comes to take them space, I just like burst into two and was very surprised. I love how game everybody is to go to space in this That's like, that's what I mean when everybody in this movie is like a big sweedie, like they're also just like super open minded, like, yeah, let's go live with some aliens. It seems cool. This movie is the senior big chill. I like that. Well

you started off. Molly turned it on and texted us it's it's the shining and I was like, I can't wait to talk about what does that mean? Just there were just a lot of scenes of like old ballrooms and uh, because all their hangouts are just these kind of like still hanging on places like big band balls.

Just feels like in the eighties that would probably be the kind because that's like what they were doing when they were adults, and you know, because they just like so separate from the rest of the world, right, I mean, I think that one of the great things about this like this film is genuinely unusual in a lot of ways. But I just think like it is one of those things where you start watching it and you are just

our motto, genuinely unusual. But like I mean, for like a big for like a studio film that was widely released and was a hit by all counts. Yeah, eighty five point three million, that's on a seventeen point five. Yeah, it was a really popular movie. And like, but there's something like when you're just dropped down into a quartet of seniors and like just asked to go with it,

it's very unusual. It's one of those things where you're like, oh, I never see a story about these sorts of people without making fun of them or the joke being that's right. And I read an article by the author of the book that Cocoon was based on. It was like a

sci fi novel. Um. He is now in his eighties, and he wrote a piece for the A RP Magazine about what it's like to actually be the age of the characters, because he wrote the book when he was in his sporties, and he was like, old people are much less like sedentary than I imagine them to be

in the first place. He was like, now that I'm in my eighties, like I've never stopped doing anything, And the idea that like I thought older people would like have stopped doing their you know, following their passions or wanting to have sex, is like a thing I made up that isn't true popular culture. I loved that. Well, it's also like I do feel like old people are really like either villainized in movies or sort of like

a joke. Yeah, well, if it's the center of the story, it's kind of like the same thing with like that phobia, or you know, if you have a character that isn't tiny or whatever, then that's the joke of the whole movie or this movie takes on like the fear of aging in this like very beautiful and spiritual way that I was very affected by at the end, where you're right, what if people didn't die they could go to space suggests like it suggests an afterlife, like a real afterlife

the way, well, it's just like a real afterlife, like I mean, basically it looks like a rapture at the end. I also had a cynical moment of like, what if the aliens are just going to do tests on them? Now? It's it is possible. I mean, yeah, Whitley Striper did not write this book, didn't go there yet. Well, we have to let Jane Marie go. Thank you so much for joining us today. This is amazing, really fun all the time. We absolutely will. Where can people find you online?

So I'm at see Jane Marie. It's see Jane like Cee Jane run see Jane Marie on Twitter and Instagram and my company is called Little Everywhere and you can find all of our shows. They're like The Dream. Um yeah, holler, yeah, everybody check out The Dream. It's great. It's so good. I've mentioned on the podcast before that, I was getting my cavity fills. I was listening to the first episode

of the Second Torture. That was great. I felt very lucky and be sure to buy our supplements which definitely work. I put them in your vagina. We are also going to be embarking on a new theme for the month of March. It's spring Break March, and we would love your night call or night email about your spring break stories, good or bad. Um. You can give us an email at Night Call podcast at gmail dot com or it's a night Call at one to four oh four six night.

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