79: Vanilla Skies Wide Shut

the time. It's usually so polished. Yeah, but we want to that's the power of editing. Um. One and a half of us are under the weather right now, I would say, Um, so we might we might be a little bit on on sick time. I am the holy sick person. I'm the point five. Molly's the point five. It's so healthy and amazing, right, I think it might be a point to five at this point. So I will give you my energy. Um. But it's good to be loopy because we're going to talk about eyes wide

shut today later in the show. The fans have been demanding that we devote an entire episode of the show to eyes watch shut and we're going to do it and the fans. First, we wanted to apologize for the delay on our newsletter and Mix this week, which we're not going to blame entirely on the sickness. But whoa, it definitely was not me. It wasn't what I was talking about me. I was talking about me. I blame myself for not doing the mix of Society. Look at

did that nice? Um. But we've also made a change to our Patreon tier scheme where we are now giving the newsletter and mix away two people at the dollar a month tire because we wanted more people to hear it and be able to read it, and we wanted to make a little cheaper for everybody. Tell your friends, UM, and we'll be slimming down this show notes a little bit. That's the that's the one thing that's kind of going away, uh, But everything else from the five dollar level and up

will stay the same. We do also have our pins in process right now. That really gives though. If you are at the ten dollar and up level, UM, you can expect that soon. Please update your mailing information. If you're not, uh, it might be a good time to get on the ten dollar These are really good pins. Uh spoiler alert there spooky the speak them for October. Speaking of spooky things and October. A lot of scary movies coming out lately, a lot of twisted and twisted movies. Uh,

we aren't talking about Joker. This is our public service announcement that we are not talking about this week. No no, no dot dot dot this week, this week, not never, this week. We're talking about a problem hopefully next week. Um, we're all planning to fly to Russia to see it. I think I don't think Russia right now. I think somebody promised us they might know a Russian caravan that will show us the film. Now we're going to incriminate somebody else. And no, no, no, we're going to the

Bermuda Triangle. I was saying, if we get in trouble for saying we're going to pirate Joker, it would be great publicity for this podcast. So actually, everybody like tweet about the fact that we're pirating we're gonna pirate Joker because I don't want to pay for it and I don't want to go see it in a theater at the m p a A with But we're not We're not quite waiting fully waste deep into the Joker discourse yet because we have too much to say, I think,

but I'm telling you were already sick enough. I did stick in the mind, but I did to talk about some tweets that I saw last night, because I think everybody was wondering if anything would happen at the Joker screenings, because obviously it was almost like a marketing tool the way they were being like watch out like horror movies or people faint, but it's like watch out, you might get shot into the movie theater l O L. I

don't know it worked on me, to be honest. That's like to make you want to see to make you never want to want to see it, maybe not want to see it's it's way less the Todd Phillips. Oh, I already didn't want to see it, but I think I was like, maybe I'll see it for the laws, and then I was like, no, I don't even want to do that for free, for fabe, I don't know you're gonna pay for another movie at least such as well.

This brings us to our friend Amy Twitter friend Amy friend of the pod uh whose Twitter name is aimed for the throat said last night that she went to go see Judy. She tried to go see Judy, the Judy Garland biopic star Renise solid Choice, and these are Amy's tweets for last sight. When you think you're seeing Judy, but your sleep addled brain got the showtime's wrong and Joker is the only thing still playing at ten, so you resign yourself to it. And the night ends with

thirteen people getting arrested for fighting in the theater. People demanded follow up, and she said, at first, she said, I think Todd Phillips found a way to punish me for making a welcome to my Twisted Mind quip twenty minutes into the runtime. My god, so here the tweets. Uh. The guy sitting directly to my right got in a yelling match with some dude who was sitting a few seats over. Security guards and body armor and headlights come

in and haul out one of them. The one on my right was very testosterony and it made me nervous. A body armored guard rushes back in, hauls out the woman who was with the guy they took out. The movie ends, I asked the security guard at the door. What happened? He said, Oh, that guy was drunk, loud and vaping. The real party happened in the other screen, playing Joker. Thirteen people were arrested. I think he's fucking with me. Nope, thirteen people were violently fighting and breaking

bottles on each other. They sent in a dozen squad cars and handcuffed them on the theater floor. The screening that everyone was arrested and started fifteen minutes earlier than mine. I went to the later show just so I could buy a slushy, and then a baby Mountain Lion ran in front of my car on the drive back, but she didn't hit at the baby mountain Lion was fine. She said the whole thing it was a weird, a

weird fever dream. It was an AMC thousand Oaks, And she said I should have known when I made a ha hat. Well, I guess I'll be brave remark about switching movies from Judy to Joker, and without batting an eye, the clerk said, Oh, don't worry, we hired extra security

just for this movie. That's such. I mean that all feels like such a stunt, though it is a stunt, and it's like a chicken and egg thing because it is like they have cops that a lot of the screenings, and so they're looking for people like jostling for things, and phones are also things. People. Vaping in The Joker is like the least unexpected thing ever. Seems like the vaping ist movie in the world. Yeah, I don't know when only Outlaws convey it's just so I don't know,

it feels like they're so god, I don't know. I don't want it for next week. Yeah, it's just like the marketing around this movie, even like beyond the movie itself, but just like watching Phoenix Went to a Dark Place. But yeah, that also, the Joker curse is not real because Jack Nicholson was fine. That's just like Heath Ledger was. Well yeah, yeah, Heath Ledger was a specific circumstances. But it does not like The Joker makes you like Caesar Romero is fine. People who played like the idea that

the Joker drives you crazy. It's like a famous role that drives you crazy. Not true. I also looked really deeply into the Kennedy Curse after watching next week's other Marquee movie, jfk Uh and it turns out that Kennedy curse is also like, well, a lot of them died in drunk driving accidents. Well, that's sort of cursed. I think it's curse. It's curse, but it's also like it's like a history of alcoholism in the family. It's like it's got an explanation. Besides, it's supernatural. I don't think

it's supernatural. I just think it's a It's just like it's just like karma. A lot of them also have died in small planes, which seems also like just a rich person thing. It's like, yeah, well that's a curse for being rich, so you can die in a small plane that you own. Like, um, should we take a night email? Yeah, did you want to talk about Demi Moore? Though? Oh yeah, I forgot how much I wanted to talk about to Amy Moore. I didn't want to blow up

your spy here. Because I finally finished Easy Writer's Raging Bulls. Congratulations, thank you. It has a really depressing ending called the Eighties, um where everything sucks. But I started reading Demi Moore's autobiography, which is a great eighties Hollywood book and also just a really good memoir. Um. Nobody believes me in this room. But what's it called. It's called inside Out. It's very short.

It is supposedly ghost written by Ariel Levi, and it feels like it is because it's all like very tense, like emotional punches in the gut the whole time. Um. But also it makes you really like Demi Moore or feel sympathy for her for a lot of reasons. But did you ever lack sympathy for her? I never thought about her. I've read a lot of actress's memoirs, and they make me think about actresses as people in a way that is like sometimes illuminating and sometimes disillusion ing.

He's just never I've never been that drawn to the actress memoir in general. I had to read a lot for work, I think, is why I read them. But they tend to have good gossip in them. But also it's like some people are much smarter and more interesting than you would ever think, and other people are the opposite. And Demi Moore is much smarter and more interesting than you would think. Also, the story of her and Bruce

Willis falling in love is legit very romantic. She she and Emilio Esteves are engaged and then he breaks it off because he Um. But she goes to like Emilio Esteveza's Premier for steak out, and I think that's where Bruce Willis picks her up. UM on a date with her boyfriend UM, and he picks her up by doing flare bartending. God yes, and she's like, I know it doesn't sound cool, but you have to believe me in this was the coolest thing. I think flare bartending is

extremely cool. It is cool and shouldn't see it. She was a bartender before he did Moonlighting and then he like, he's just kind of a bartender and they were both like poor kids who then became really really wealthy, and she was like and then it solved nothing about all the trauma. But on their first date he drops her off and then she's like driving home being like, what a great date? Who is that guy? I wonder if

I'll see him again? And then his limo pulls up alongside her with his crew on the pch with his gang of partiers including Woody Harrelson and John Goodman. What and they're all like, get your girl, Bruno because everybody calls Bruce Um, that's great. I wish it ended there, and then I read it. They were just like two pages about that. They get married in vegas Um and then Paramount offers to pay for a wedding because it's

such a publicity stunt. So then they get married on a Paramount sound stage by Little Richard, and that's where it takes a turn for the depressing. Maybe getting married on a sound stage is rough. It sounds depressing, but you have to understand she came from such poverty that that was like something she thought was like really glamorous in some way. Or she was like, it's going to help my career, and like, I'm an actress. It's fine, you're paying for it. But they got married in vegas Um.

I can't deny that. Well, then it turns out he doesn't really want her to work that much, and she's like, oh, we should have talked about stuff more before we got married. A while. I haven't gotten up to the planet Hollywood years yet, but uh so, anyway, Denny Moore's Inside Out recommend did by one third of the podcast I Will Convert You I read. I think the last celebrity memoir I read was Cameron Diaz. Is maybe that was a

while ago. I signed for Grantland and then it was like unassigned because I was at first i opened it, it's this happens frequently with me, where I'm like, I'll love this based on the first page. And the first page was like when you wake up in the morning, you should drink it was some obscene amount of water. It was like water. And I did it for like two days and I was like, this is brilliant, this is great. I feel great. And then it's like on day three, You're like, it's just so much book. Yeah,

her health book is crazy. I thought it was a memoir that had started with about drinking water in it was a memoir. Cameron. Yeah, Cameron Dial has also kind of underrated as an actress. Oh, she's fantastic, but she's been enigma. She will she doesn't let you into Some people are just avatars. They're like, you know, they're not a big personality. Off, she's an aquatar. Some people know their strength is not being a person. Yeah, they're the real world. I was going to say a vestibule. If

that's not a human vestibule to be walked through. Oh did you guys see Natasha Leone I'm sorry where I know we're like going proxen to social media. But did you see that she posted a diagram of why ghosts go through walls? No, but I used Natasha Leone like ten minutes ago in my example of a person who wouldn't be crushed by Hollywood because they had the self esteem to withstand it. Is it the self esteem? I think I don't know what Hollywood. For a while, I

think she was. I think she's on the contrast, were all, yeah, but I think like it's very understandable, like she I was just saying, I think a lot of people that are actors, how are like have no self esteem? But don't you want to know why ghosts can walk through Okay, it's because they're walking based on the original floor plan of whatever a building that was on the plot of land that they are haunting, because you, as we know,

they're wedded to the plot. So whatever house was originally there when the ghost was alive, they're like, oh, here's the stairs and here's the doorway, even though maybe there's no stairs no doorway anymore. So they're just they have to like go the way that they're used to go. Architects have so much power right over over the beyond. I had no idea. Yeah, it's like alchemy. I thought it was because they're vaporous and they can pass through walls.

But why would they because they are used to They're just retreading. That's all they feel like doing is just retreading. I don't blame them, like it's it's what's comfortable, or like they're like getting so mad. They're like I'm going to jump through this hole. That could be I mean, they're just they could be. It could be an expressive thing. But I was like, I was totally felt that that was a good scientific explanations. They drink fifteen cups of water. Honestly,

can you imagine right when you wake up? But I don't know liquid and I don't know if anybody actually no, I do. My husband wakes up in the morning and drinks water. To me, it's so disgusting in the morning. Our friend, yeah, I have to drink something with a taste. It can't be water. Water in the morning is grossed create along without a bottle. That how how much water you're supposed to drink every day, and it's so much.

You can drink too much water poisoning I'm drinking water right now, but honestly, like I'm not enjoying it at all, especially because I'm sick. It's just terrible. Speaking of ghosts, Yeah, we got a haunted email about a haunted place we talked about last week, Winnipeg. Yes, we got an email from Ryle in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Um and Ryle writes to us, since you name dropped Winni bag in your episode with Chris, I thought it would be good to talk about a

couple of surreal aspects about the city. Are you guys ready to learn about Winnipeg? Yeah? Of course that was me, That wasn't Ryle. Okay. So first, there's the Hamilton's House. The Hamilton's House belonged to a Dr Hamilton's that, like many people in the early twentieth century, was into the spiritualist movement. The house became a place where medium psychics

and the like which showcase their abilities. So Arthur Conan Doyle made a visit and they even took photos of the seances and psychic sessions, including in demonstration of a table being moved by telekinesis. Supposedly, the house still stands today and surprisingly no mention of any hauntings. A Lincoln article about it. If you ever want to read more details or just to look at the photos and you

can judge them yourself. I'd like to believe some of them are real, but I'm kind of a skeptic at heart. And then uh second second fun Winnipeg fact. IF Day in two there was a simulation of a Nazi invasion during wartime, appropriately called IF Day, where volunteer actors dressed in Nazi uniform staged an invasion that was reminiscent of the invasions in Europe, along with the sounds of gunfire, news articles and radio broadcasts, and the day culminated in

what was essentially was a fundraiser for victory bonds. This is It was referenced in the movie My Winnipeg, which is directed by Guy Madden, who is like the David Lynch of Canada or just or just Manitoba if he liked silent films in expressionism. Oh guy Madden being from Manitoba. Oh yeah, no, He's like, yeah, everything shout out to Guy Madden, shout out IF Day. That's insane, that's crazy. But it sounds it just sounds like a different version

of a lot of active shooter drills now. Yeah, And I saw something like in my neighborhood today that was like emergency event drilled. Yeah, there's an emergency preparedness drill this weekend. Also, a bunch of blue angels flying over Hollywood right now is always a little um. Yeah, no, the whole thing. It's like one thing to prepare people for a bad situation, like say a Nazi invasion. I would say that America would be in a better place right now if we'd been prepared for a Nazi invasion

sometime in the last several years. But it's not just that, like the practicalities of it, but it's like the relashing and the causeplay of it, which is so creepy to me. That's what's creepy about Civil War re enact Yeah. Um, but like I don't know, have you guys ever been not to get too dark here early in the show, but have you guys ever been in like an active shooter drill in the last several years? My children have. Yeah, I was really I heard about this on air talk

with Larry Mantle. Shout out Larry Mantle. I forgot that Larry Mantle is like one of my radio here heroes here on eight nine point three KPCC. But um he there was a there was a whole segment about like how much are these just traumatizing kids for no really scary ad about it? Oh the every town at the one that's like back to school season? That wasn't every every town is phenomenal. I I love every town? Um And I thought that, yeah, that but it made me cry.

Yeah yeah, yeah. It just comes up when you're watching a TV show and you're like, uh yeah. I mean I think a lot of the schools out here try to handle them as sensitively as they can, considering that they really have to introduce a horrible concept to like five year olds. Um, but I it's hard because like you're getting a lot of the information from your kid about like what's happening, and then you have to figure out what do you tell atomic bomb drill? Yeah, yeah,

that's what they were talking about. They're like, well, you know, kids in the fifties had a similar thing that was like, but it's like so much more existential. I think like the idea of a bomb versus the active shooter also consistential in different ways. It also it makes possible. The fact that the person who's shooting is someone who attends your school. I think that's the really frightening thing is

so yeah, it's it's really awful. But there I mean, I've been in a couple now really at different offices that I've worked at, and there are some where you get the sense that the person whose job it is to do the active shooter training like really gets off on their job, like they love imagining being in a scenario. Well, a lot of proper type people. They're all like former cops.

And there was one where you watched this video. I can't remember where this was, and it's probably for the best that I don't say what workplace it was that, but um, there was a video that was like it was like showing the scenario, like it was like an office building and then everybody starts running around and and they're playing like this like like Mission Impossible type music over it, and like and they're like, this isn't a scene from an actual Hollywood action movie. This could happen

in your work. Maybe I did see a video yeah, and it's like not horrible. Um yeah, it's it's it's it's even like to even make that connection in that context to be like, you know, like movie stuff like getting shot. This is different. It's just like it's just such a weird Did you guys see the simulator where you have to fire the old man? An? He cries? Know what's that? It's like a simulator for people that have to go around doing layoffs. And it's like, tell

this old man he doesn't have a job anymore. And then he's like, no, my thing. Wait did you have to do this? No? No, my friend just told me about it, because it was like, oh my god. In the news, Um, every day is IF day here in America. In Canada they have a specific day for IF day. That's nice. They allowed for chaos. Oh man. I actually saw the scariest tweet. I think it was Gabe delah Hay who tweeted like Donald Trump should just sign the

purge into action right now. Please don't even it's so scary because sometimes something like that gets said and I'm like, put it back in your brain, let it out in the world. I don't know how I felt about that one, because he was like and he should be like, and like, it absolves me of all my crimes because they were all done on Purge days. Oh my god. Okay, speaking of the nightmare hell World. We'll be back after an

ad with more talk about I switching. Welcome back. We are going to talk today about the Stanley Kubrick film, the last Stanley Kubrick film, Eyes Wide chut Um, on the occasion of I guess the entire year nineteen but particularly uh the Jeoffrey Epstein case and um attendant horrors of nineties underground millionaire sex cults, billionaire sex cults. Maybe, um, we all watched Eyes Wide Shut recently we rewatched it, and um, I hadn't seen it. Maybe in a couple

of years. I think I do this one kind of like maybe every two years. I would say, it stays pretty fresh. And I watched it like once a month. Really, Yeah, we went on to go to sleep. How is that? Like, I mean, you don't have to answer this, but like, what does that do for your relationship? Nothing bad if you're confident in it. Not like we we were talking for a minute about starting an eyewide Shot podcast and

then we were like that would break us up. Like if we started a whole eyeswde could do the like the Shining one where it's like one minute because you're thinking about it for like a second that we're like, we would kill each other, yeah and hate the movie

after a while. So, um, well, the most recent eyes Wide Shut like topical thing that I remember coming through my feed was the tweet I think that you you forwarded to me, Actually, Molly, that was basically somebody saying, um, Stanley Kuber died right before the release of Eye Eyes Wide Shot for the same reason that bungled the release of Under the Silver Way. Yeah, which is pretty amazing once you get what we will call Epstein brain. Uh, it just sort of does, like in fact, the way

you think about everything. And then you know, when I watched next week's feature JFK and I realized that was just Boomer Epstein brain, which just JFK conspiracy brain. You do maybe start to see patterns where they don't even necessarily exist, uh, but also some patterns you wish you could unsee. So the the actual reported like factual connection between Eyes Wide Shut and Jeffrey Epstein is that Larry Salona, who has broken a lot of the stories on Jeffrey

Epstein for The Post. He's like a long long time post report or new York Post report. That's how he got the job on I Swide Shut is because he was like, uh, like a total like WEGI crime scene reporter who reports on like people killing their mistresses and dumping the bodies and the kind of stuff that happens

in the movie Eyes Wide Shut. And then uh, he wrote the story about Jeffrey Epstein committing suicide that a lot of people think was a plant to cover up whatever really happened, Epstein dying in a jail cell, which we will never know is broke um. And then a lot of people were like, I watched that's a documentary. When you mean by a lot of people, you mean you that was I think even I thought it was

a documentary before all this happened. I was kind of like, yeah, it would be I plausible sort of factory ready detail. I was like, oh, yeah, this is all real. I think there's something about this movie that I always took a total face value. I think, like, there are certain things.

I think. The interesting thing to think about for me is like not doubting that this kind of thing ever happens regularly, um, but that it probably looks a lot less cinematic Because Stanley Koper doesn't direct it um like the whole, like the whole very famous scene of Tom Cruise coming in while they're doing the ritual and the naked ladies and the crazy music and everything. It's incredible. It's so like, its like it has a physical effect

on me. It feels like my head's about yeah while I'm watching it, but I'm also like, the real version of this is so and gross and sad, even if it's at a billionaire's home. It's like, I just don't like thinking that was like the horrible feeling I got when I saw those pictures of Jolayne's apartment, you know, with the mask on the wall, and I was like, this is what it's really like, is like a creepy town house and a creepy woman who makes you feel

comfortable and then shuts and locks all the doors. But there's something about those town houses, those rich people town houses, that I've always found just so claustrophobic that this movie, uh is very good at conveying that whole like creepy Manhattan feeling fake Manhattan. Yeah. That's also the other bizarre aspect of this movie is that it was shot both on a sound stage and just like I think on streets in London, uh and not in New York, so

it's like Tinewoods. Yeah. Um. But there is some stuff that like like the locations, like the the like the costume shop and stuff like that. That's all I think that's on location because it's like all very specifically British like everything. There's like to let signs and there's like

and it's a fancy dress shop. Is that because it was based on a story that was because Stanley Kubrick won't take place, he won't get okay, I need Yeah, I knew that too, But I mean like the the like little touches of like for let was it just to be kind of like a weird nowhere place and there's a specifically New York. I mean if that's intentional, it's pretty smart because it does give you this weird,

dreamy feeling how you're watching it. It's like the shining where you can make yourself insane, just like looking at every detail of every scene and being like it's telling me something. Although I did just see there was a bunch of stuff in Midsummer that I totally miss, Like what there's a bunch of like images of her dead

sister in the trees. Somebody posted a screen cap of like it's like when she is like tripping out and looking at the trees and stuff, there's like this hidden image of her, of her sister with like the hose hooked up to her face. It's terrified. So re watch me in summer. But if you dare, this movie also feels like that where you're like, if I keep watching it, I'll figure it out. Like Zodiac, Um, do you want

to do? You want to do a quick little recap of it for people who said this movie about a doctor and his wife played by Tom Cruise Nicole Kidman, when they were still there, still married. She tells him that he understands nothing about women's sexuality, and then he goes on a night cruise all night, after hours, trying

to get late. Well, one of the things I learned about this movie was that it was originally pitched as kind of an after hours It's supposed to be more of like a comedy, and it was supposed to be made in the eighties, uh, starring Steve Martin. Yeah, which

I love it. I love it too, But it's like it is like it has the same plot as the movie like Booty Call, which is like you're trying to get late all night and you can't because things keep getting in your way, and that's what makes it like an anxiety dream where it's like you're trying to achieve this task but like you can't, or like Harold and Kumar. Yeah, all the best movies take place over one night, but

there is something about this movie. I think that like none of the time makes sense in it, which again adds to the weirdness of the got a weird reception when it came out, but I also counted as like a movie like show Girls, where it's like people were mad because they thought it was going to be erotic, and then it's like, no, it's a movie about sex as a commodity, and how an eroticized like that can be. Uh, it's not like it's like it is cold and sort

of not warm. Yeah. Well, to use really smart words, Well, I mean, I'm like, I guess this is one of my more basic film opinions. But I like, I truly love Stanley Kubrick, like I I genuinely like he's one of my favorite directors of all time. Weird, I know, um, but I think, like, what is amazing about this film is that I think you could you could categorize it as an erotic thriller, one of our favorite genres, totally

a night call. But it does feel it kind of feels like if a woman directed an erotic thriller, because it is so psychological and it's so if I write directed an neurotic killer, just be like dicks the whole time.

Well now I'm not talking about like what's on its mind and and the way it depicts the relationship between um Nicole and Tom and just the whole like even before it gets into the crazy stuff, just the party seem it just it feels so intelligently, uh just executed like it's just so I think it's just so tuned into both of them in a way that's like her

acting is also bizarre and it's so weird. I love it, but it's like it's so but it makes you just hyper aware of everything that she's saying and like going through and stuff because it's just like what is she doing? I have to say that I cannot find an emotional

like foothold in this movie. Really. Yeah, well because especially so at the party and then the following the argument where she gets really high and has this kind of like I think she's great, but I cannot understand, like because she goes immediately to such a high emotional intensity and she's so high that I'm kind of like wanted to be funnier or like make more sense to me, but I can't. It's it's I don't identify at all with either of them. I'm like, who am I love

to latch Onto? So uncomfortable. It's a very uncomfortable movie, That's what I like. I think it's interesting. I just never feel anything for it. Well. I feel like people say that a lot about Kuber movies, like it's not emotional. Oh, I don't feel that way. I mean, I it's probably uly either a tricky Kubrick for me, but I'm still interested in it. I mean honestly, like I love them. I love all of them, but this one. But it's like,

I don't what's your actual favorite. I don't know. I feel like I want to say, like two thousand one, but I also don't want to, like, like one of the best movies, but it's it's hard to talk about Kubrick. You're like, I want to say that it's like a favorite movie and be like Spartacus. But it's like I wanted to love Eyes Whide Shut much more than I ever did, but I can still appreciate it. But like just f y, I was watching Eyes Wide Shut the other night, turned it off, turned on Under the Silver

Lake again. My neighbor was driving by and it was late at night, and she saw like on her one way trip part of Eyes White Shut and then on her way home Under the Silver Lake and she was like, what are you watching? And I was like, well, Eyes Wide Shut and Under the Silver Lake and she was just like, okay, you're on a journey. That's okay. I

was like, I'll get curtains. I guess. I love when you're watching a movie like That's like I feel like that doesn't happen anymore because now people just watch on computers. But I remember like watching Russ Meyer's movies like on the main TV and in college and other people being like, what are you watching? What are you doing? Hey? What do you do? It? It's a not a soft court, yeah, I mean it is sort of, but I mean come by in five minutes, yeah, yeah, I mean I yeah,

I've never cried. I mean, I guess I get the charge of Kubrick being emotionally chill, and I think some of his films live up to that more than others. But like, I don't know, this movie is pretty emotional for me, but it's like on a it's like on a it's like on a post human level. Yeah, it's I also think I can never connect with Tom Cruise. Really. I think maybe that's that's really the main Magnolia. Yeah,

I like him in Magna. He's I like him in Magnolia, but I feel like, and maybe this is because of like Zeno or something, but I feel like I cannot see past the thing that is armoring him, you know, like he wants you to see this. I like a lot of like big eighties actors, I feel like who I encountered. Later, I was totally did not get Tom Cruise. And then when I went back and watched Risky Business, I was like, well, I mean yeah, when you look at like really young Time and honestly, parts of Vanilla

Sky like much as that movie. We should do a big Question Feelings, but I hate it, but I can't like go. We should have Cameron crow Onto talk about Vanilla Scott Cameron Crew on the horn here. I feel like we can get him on the horn. I just also would like to hear what he thinks about it, because I think it's just like sometimes you make a movie and it doesn't come out like you thought it were, right. Yeah, but that movie's got some super interesting stuff and it's interesting.

It's not different from Eyes Wide Shut and and they came out somewhat close to And it's just that it came out right after Almost Famous, which obviously we all like love a lot, you know, so do you not love it? It worked on me. I don't know if

I haven't watched. And I thought about it so much when I was interviewing Lona Delray the other day, because I was like, Okay, here's the Almost Famous experience you like want of, Like you can't just try to be friends with somebody you like are obsessed with the party. This is the thing. Is that, like, in terms of movies you think about despite not connecting with Eyes Wide Shut, I certainly think about it, Like there are things where I'm like that Eyes Why, like with Vanilla Skuy were

still talking about Vanilla more than anybody. I wish you guys to bring it back to Karintinas exactly. Look at this part where she drives them off a bridge, and she's like, it's been like a running joke for testing since that movie came. Literally all he made me see it. It's an eternal line, it is. There's so much in there that just doesn't make any set. It's just it's such a funny because it's some jewels and gym and then and they're like, it was repeating all the movies

in your brain. I love, I love what that movie did to me. It's like I just look, I'm just saying it goes for something. Yeah, you know, but I will say to bring it back to Cruiz, I it doesn't quite work for me in this movie. He generally doesn't work for me. The times he works for me are when I think that people really have a handle on how to work with what you're talking about, that like outer thing that he wants to project, like an

exo skeleton. Yeah, and he has. It's like it's like playing with somebody's intentions and working them, like working somebody's intentions to be your attentions or something like. I think if you're directing Tom Cruise, that's like a weird needle you have to thread, just from like that's my armchair opinion from having watched him in movies, like I love him in Magnolia. I think that that's like a smart

use of him. And I love him in Collateral, Like Collateral Tom Cruise, like genuinely literal, what's wrong with all of us? Were like, you know, it's hot Tom Cruise in Collateral and Magnolia. I didn't say I know it was hot, but he was hot in Collateral. I was

over at my Collateral. I thought he was fantastic in Magnolia, like young young Tom Cruise, Like sure, young Cruise didn't do anything, didn't have that, but oh but he didn't have the crust, like he was like just a person without this like like I'm a celebrity and I'm very good at engage with you. It's like you're not You're not about mission impossible. I think what we're talking about is like there's Tom Cruise the actor and Tom Cruise the movie star, and sometimes you get the actor, and

I do feel like you get the actor. I do, but this is the thing. I think you get the parts where he's been I was just like I wanted to have a drinking game. For every time he says I'm a doctor in this movie, it's like, should we all have be doctors so we can get into any like club, costume shop. There's a lot of reasons we should all be Yeah, like that's that's like number seventies seven on the list. But but I think all of that stuff he does really well, and he's really well

suited for. And I think it's interesting to pose that that persona and that that artifice that he does as something that can get deconstructed over the course of the movie, or like get threatened at least, And I just don't think he plays the threatened part of it. Like I don't ever buy that his world like falls apart in this movie in the way that I think it should, in the way that I believe like the movie is selling.

But I don't like that he's selling it. You want to see him like fall apart more or I just want to see some of that, let go of some of the because even when he's like beans sad, I just don't. I still don't. I still see the shell. I don't know. You know who was supposed to play at the Sydney Pollock part in the eighties version, would

you allen? Oh my god, somebody told me that apparently there were even more Jeffrey Epstein jokes cut out of thirty Rock uh, and that they were just like in it all the time, um, and that everybody in New York knew about it. So I do think there are things like this where everybody knows about it. It's like an open secret among a certain group of people, and

you get away with it because it sounds so fucking insane. Sure, it's also like if it's just a sex party, it's also like, sure, what else is new in New York is less fucked up than the Epstein scandal? That's the thing. Like they're not they're I mean it's still fucked up obviously. Well they kill people, but they kill sex workers. But

before they're not trafficking children, right Yeah. And it like when there's a threat, Like it was really interesting to watch this time around because it's just like when the threat start coming his way and when they know his name and they tell him to back off, it's just like or what, like what it's just a nightmare. It's a nightmare. It's like trying to figure out It's like Russian dollar you're like trying to figure out what you have to do and it doesn't matter because it's a dream.

And like when he goes to the sex party, it's like all of the women look the same and they all look just like Nicole Kidman, like in terms of the body type. You know, It's like it just feels like a weird, paranoid sex dream about being in a long marriage and being like, I'm attracted to other people, but the idea that my wife is attracted to other people like fox my whole life up or at least your night or at least maybe the pot is just making you paranoid. Yeah, I love that part. But I

also just remember seeing the trailer for this movie. The trailer was horny. Well I thought it was going to be so different based on the trailer because that Chris Isaac song is like the sexiest thing in the world. So it's like it can't live up to that song when it's like, no, no, are you just a del rey and she needs Also Chris Isaac is just like his music is very I am not turned on by the music of Chris. What you were just going to say, Like, I'll admit that that song is like a horny song

on its face. How do you feel about rockabilly in general? I'm okay with rockabilly. What do you think is the sexiest music like ever in the world? Yeah, I feel like it's she personal. When we hit our three thousands, will say what the sexiest music in the world is, somber mix will be the mix of the sexiest music in the world sexce novembermember, Oh my god, I'm okay. They're just to scare people and be like what if I listening to and then we'll go back to the

sexy stuff. Okay, So this is a good question though. Okay, so do you think that the music is diegetic in the sex ritual scene, because so there's the stuff that he's playing, like Nick Nightingale is like a Yama like but that's like that's like the opening of it. But then I feel like I feel like some of what

we're hearing is not diegetic. But like it's interesting to think about it all being like him to have all those patches and his keyboards and thing about the Jeffrey Epstein Temple where that article came out there for the interviewed a lot of people to figure out like what was the temple for on the Highland, and it turned out it was a piano room because they found somebody would tune the piano in the room. They found like more than one person who said, I've been in the room,

it's like a performance space or whatever. Doesn't mean it's not also a sex dungeon. But I guess this also just seems like very old world New York to me. The idea that like to get people to have a party you have to gather around a piano in like a very expensive room. Wasn't that just like an eighties and nineties thing. No, I think it's I feel like if you have a piano, you're going to make people

do that. Well, it's like it's like a like pre recorded music thing, like after dinner, like my daughter, my oldest daughter is going for you, and so you'll agree to marry her or whatever. Thinking of like fifties nightclubs like that was the big thing in the Dino book, was like people were like, oh, you know, records are

going to put the nighttime entertainment. Even in high school, I feel like I went to some like fancy friends parties where someone would play the piano and then everyone would kind of have to go and always theater party.

You know, somebody else I know just got invited to an adult woman's birthday party that was like recreating her childhood parties where everybody would gather around a piano and first the feeling of dread that happens in me when someone's like, now we're all going like we are all going to Oh I hate that, and someone's going to play for us. I hate just want to be like, but what if I don't want to cry yes to

this horrible arrangement. The most about the EWE shut universe is like the idea of having to do an activity at a party, yes, well, the idea that we're all on the same page here. It's like when people are like, okay, we're all really fucked up, time to play Mafia. It's like, no, the parties. You say this, but you just hate games. Yes, but it doesn't feel like a game and ice wedgeshut.

It feels like now I'm going to walk slowly arm in arm with somebody and wear a mask and it's not going to feel like like none of the sexy stuff feels sexy at all because it feels so ritualized it feels like such a like act that's being put on that I feel like it doesn't have any it's like just it's just the utilitary at that point, it's like, yeah, it's like for the purpose of a ritual. It's like people are getting off on the ritual more than on

the sex, which is very real. I guess. It's also like there's a lot of logistics involved in that many people having sex to choreograph. Also, it's like when you're I was like looking at a lot of the background players and a lot of like c g I placed

in people in front of people who are boning. But like like if you're just there and you're not having sex and you're just watching somebody having sex, and you're there like with another sex worker, and you're just supposed to like stand against each other just so like there's the best episode of Party Down about that they have the party and they're like talking about how much it sucks to cater the party, and the woman who has to stand there with a mask with their tips out

is like you think your jobs. But I feel that way about a lot of like people who have to entertain naked. It's like it becomes very second nature to you too in a minute. But that doesn't mean that like other people aren't going to be like that's what it was like at Avien. It's like everyone's just naked. It doesn't seem sexual to them. It's just sexual to the guys that are coming in and being like damn,

like no bras, it's below me. Um. I want to talk real quick because I think one of the things I've always liked about this movie or that was interesting about in this movie, besides the sex stuff, is like how it's about um like being and I'm stealing this from this point from my husband who watched it with me this last time, but like being being a one

percenter versus being a point oh one percenter. Like I feel like that's also like maybe even more than the um like who has the biggest sex party UM thing, Like that's the that's like the status thing that's running

through it all, like about like class anxiety. Yeah, I mean, like there's the part that I remember like picking up on maybe one of one of the first times I watched is like when when Nicole Kim is like helping the kid um do the homework and is like explaining a word problem It's like Joe has two dollars and fifty cents and Ted has one dollar and seventy five cents, Like how much more money does Joe like? And that's what she's doing while like he's staring at her and

just like having a meltdown. It's just like, can you think about somebody like Stanley Kubrick who's like not a rich kid from New York and you like ascend up into that part of New York and has always been like that's where I gotta get and then you get there and it's a nightmare. Yeah. Yeah, And it's like you can get you can get to a certain point like be a Ted or be a Tom Cruise where you're a doctor and you've got killer. You can get to a certain point where you can be the Zodiac killer.

Uh no, but where you you know, like you're a doctor and you have rich clients and you get invited to fancy party, but you're not like at the upper echel and you're not the person throwing the party um or you're like a Nick nick Niel or you're just like you're invited into that space, but you're there as an employee um and you have to wear a blindfold for it, and I think like that those sorts of that sort of stratification of class and like who who

ultimately gets to actually go to the sex party and how many people are there just being you know, human props is um. I don't know, it's like an interest. It's a very dreamlike illustration of I think like America. Orange also has the human furniture. Yeah, I love Clockwork Orange. Also talk about Second Twisted Man Clockwork Orange I saw and like, really that was like one of the first times I got too high. Just gonna you still have

like flashbacks to that. That was just awful. I mean, I love Clockwork Orange, but like I'm never really like I and I'll sit down and watch Clockwork. It's like no, just like with The Joker. I mean, even if like there's a part of me I'm not gonna lie that does want to see The Joker, it's just a big part of me that I'm like, I just don't. I don't know what it would do to write it's psycholo. It's hilarious that all these guys have probably like never

just watch Clockwork Orange. Also who are defending it as

this like piece of resistance of Edge Lord Cinema. It's like it's like there have been so many edgy like things that would not even like, would not even get on screen now like thing, and that's like what to bring it all back to easy writers surging balls yet again, That's like the big takeaway is like there's this moment for five seconds when people are like, we're going to get to make art movies in America the way they do in Europe because blow Up is like a big

crossover hit, and then Jack Nicholson like immediately really early on, is like, oh, people didn't like blow Up because it had like crazy time stuff and jump cuts. It was because they showed a beaver shot and nobody in America

had ever done that before. And that's what Hollywood took away from it was like, Okay, sex scenes and blood is like what we can do now, and there are people who made that interesting and I like a lot of like grungy grindhouse stuff, but doing it just like for its own sake can be really boring, especially because it's been done so much already, like torture porn movies. Yeah, if you don't have anything to say with it, then it's like not it's not fun like to bring it

back to the purge. Also, like you know, that's like one instance of something where it's like I can get through how bad it is if there's a point of view in there and if it has something interesting to say, Like, but there's so much stuff where it's just like repeating all the the external signifiers of darkness or something that. I mean like Texas Change saw Massacre is a great movie. I'm not that into Texas Change. Well, it's scary in a mood. Yeah, certain mood. We're we pick where the

edge ends. Yeah, but we all lower it over. It's not that I know, it's not I don't find it too upset. I just kind of think it's boring. But yeah, it's not like it's not the most intelligent movie. Um yeah, but okay, I just watched Shut Any other thoughts on see you literally watched this? How many times? I just

need to know so much? Like how many times? Like literally throw it on to fall asleep, like every night, not every night, but like sometimes that just blows my mind, Like watch that and Zodiac to go to bed sometimes Zodiac I understand because yeah, because one of those things, it's like I'm just going to dip in for a little bit of Zodiac and they both have that like kind of like I'm half awake in a weird dream world. And also I don't really have nightmares because I smoke

too much weed, so I'm not afraid of that right specifically. Um, yeah, no, I don't know. I only watched it like every couple

of years. I'm like, I feel like I watched it two years ago and before that it might have been longer, but it's it's I think it's I feel like I want more movies like this on Slate, Like I I mean, not necessarily about the exact same thing, but I want more movies that like feel like this and talk about like, um, talk about these feelings in it in an interesting and like, uh, well, I'm excited to talk about the like express of the

scorese Joker Marvel Discourse. Next week, when we've talked about that, I really doing JFK and Joker next week, we're gonna spread it out alright, cool, oh God, spooky sp October begins. JFK. We're getting all about out of our system before sex Dam's November. Let's do one last night, Yes nightcall a night call. Um, it's a little long, so we might have to edit it down. UM, but I will leave you with the night Fierce. Yeah, here we go. Hi, ladies of Nightfall. I love your show and it is

five five on my evening commune in for Land, Oregon. Um. Sorry, I just had to do that, but I was for me because I have had night terrors. Um. I don't have them anymore, but I had them for about when I started thinking about telling you guys about this, I did the math, and it's been sixteen years. That's how

long I had them. So, Um, I would actually fall asleep and I would suddenly I would come from like a deep sleep state to a sort of in a weight the middle of the road state to where I knew I was um asleep, but I couldn't move and I was scaralized. I could see my It's like I could see out of my eyes, but I couldn't move

my body. Absolutely terrifying. And Um. The way it would always play out is someone would be in the house, a man would be in the house, and then I could hear his footsteps walking closer and closer to me. Sometimes he would even turn around and walk back down the hallway just to mess with me repeatedly. So I had these nightmares for like I say, sixteen years, and UM, the only way that I was ever able to successfully

wake myself up from one was a I would. I found that you could take a super deep breath and somehow, maybe having something to do with being able to steal your body, that wouldn't be able to wake me up. UM. That worked a few times, and then finally one day, one lovely day, I UM had my last night terror when UM it was the same spario as always is. I'm glad you guys have a long machine. UM, And I felt sleep sometimes to w would hear this loud

something in my ears? Anyway, I fell asleep, and UM, I started having the dream there was a man in the house and I heard him watching his footsteps towards the bedroom and I was latting there paralyzed and terrified and not able to move that he sat down on the bed next me, and I just had had it. I had my fill and I was like, listen here. I don't want to say what I said, but I said, you get out of here, and get out of you know,

do whatever it is you're gonna do. Or get out of my life because I'm sick of putting up your bull chet. And then I stunden somehow left my body and went outside and play to play with the cat because dreams are weird. And that was the end. I never had another one after that, And um that my theory is that, um when you do. I think it was like my subconscious was trying to get me to stay my fears, and once I finally did you know, then it was over. Hopefully it wasn't a dark far anyway.

I love your show, Poculator. That was a great night call. And also I can't imagine having a nightmare, a recurring nightmare for sixteen years. Yeah, I would, like, I don't know, I would have to like probably end up spending a lot of money trying to figure out how do you care about that? That's also, by the way, like that's your screenplay because that's really good. Yeah, horrifying story. Yeah, I mean I got like chills just like imagining the guy coming down there, I know, yeah, and it's a

really sitting on the bed. I do like this story has a happy ending though, because and I think that's like, I mean, have you ever been able to like beat a nightmare in in within the nightmare, or just like clap your hands and make it like defeat it, or right now I wake up and I'm like, I'm going to go back in, and that doesn't really work. Yeah, I'm gonna go back in. It's always a fun thing. It never works. I mean, it works like very but

it never works how you want it to work. Even if it does work out, you get some weird like like gummy shadow of whatever the nightmare was. I don't know, um yeah, I like, I like, I mean, I guess if you have a recurring nightmare, you maybe are more likely to be able to do the lucid dreaming thing of like recognizing what's going on because it's just familiar

to you at that point. It's also probably you're you're spending so much time actually thinking about it, like during your waking hours, that you can probably I mean, maybe that's the trick, is that she just really needed to do the work, as they say, to trying to figure out how to how to deal with whatever the fear was, not only in the waking hours, but while she was asleep. Also.

Sixteen years is like so much can happen to you during that time, like you can seriously grow as a person and like then find the strength to be able to be like listen here, ry Man, get off my dream. I love the way that she also narrated that. Listen here. Um. Yeah,

this is great. Thank you so much for sharing. Um. If you have any nightmare stories or any other stories or conspiracies or theories or questions that you have for us, you can leave us a night call at one for six night or night email at Night Call Podcast at gmail dot com. We are going to be back next week, talking talking, We're going to be back unto the left. Yeah.

We are on Instagram at Night Call Podcast, Twitter at Night Call Pod, Facebook at Night Call Podcast, and you can subscribe to us on Patreon at patreon dot com, slash night Call and subscribe to us on iTunes if you have not already, and leave us a review while you're there. We love reviews and they help people find the show. Thank you so much, everybody. We will see you next week, See you next week, See you next week.

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