76: Nobody Should Have an Island

everybody for for sticking with us through our hiatus. We've been airing some of our episodes that we did during the hiatus over the last couple of weeks, and now we are somewhat and living in the present. We're catching up almost. It's exciting. We're almost to be and and and I mean, given what we're talking about this week, we will still probably feel like we're in a time work because everything is so fucking weird right now. Life comes at you pretty fast night call. Um. But first

and again, this is some old news. But I I stuck. I stuck this on our our dock like weeks ago, and I think we would be remiss if we didn't talk about the new leach on the block, New leach on the block. Um, this is a leech that was discovered in Nearer Washington, d C. Inviting all sorts of easy jokes. Um, there's a it's a coastal species of leech that has fifty nine teeth and I believe three jaws, three whole jaws three. Um, it is a it's it's I think they haven't found a new species of leech

in America since um, the fifties, I believe. And it's a species of leeches called I guess they're called medicinal leeches. Let's give some credit to the international team of museum scientists led by Anna Phillips, the Smithsonian's curator of parasitic Worms. She waded into this swamp with shorts on to see these leeches. They like bait them. That's how they find them. You bat them with your legs, You bait them with yourself.

It's like that. It's like being uh like um, you know whatever they're called in for vampiresm where you're just like the blood bag. They're like science. I've heard there's a lot of leeches in the water. Disney World. Really well, it's Florida. I guess that makes sense. It kind of makes sense. Uh maybe also a disney Land, I heard, but I where would they be at Disney the Jungle

Cruise chlorinated? No leeches in that fake news. I'm going to say that this leech, by the way, is it should not be tied to d C because it can be found as far north as New York and as far south as Georgia. So it's just a coastal Atlantic

blood sucker. Don't think you're safe when you're not in washing in d C. I heard Anta Phillips on the radio accidentally also talking about this um and she was talking about how like it sounds like the most terrifying thing in the world, like a leech with three jaws. But she's like, it doesn't actually hurt that much. Like I guess it's like the thing with leeches, like people used to put them on their bodies all the time. It's as long as a cigarette and it's wide as

two cigarettes, which is a funny thing. Yeah, it's a cigarilla olive green with orange spots. Is the deal with leeches that it doesn't hurt because of the section have we talked about this before, I'm having about our leech conversation. Well, I think, and I don't know if this is the case with this particular leech, but usually it is suction, like it's not a teeth thing. They don't puncture to draw blood. They actually suck the blood through your skin

like they suck so hard. I think we can all relate that that the blood just like comes out through the layers of your dermiss. That's so fascinating. I wonder if the teeth actually keep you from noticing them, because obviously it would behoove the leech to not have you noticed that for so many years because it's like clean

blood letting. Well, also with the teeth, there are these things that you can get that are a little plastic kind of disks and they have little points in them, and if you press them on your arm when you're getting a shot and the shot is inserted like in the middle, it actually takes away the pain because it hits your pressure points. So I wonder if that might

be something that the leech teeth do. Well, they're still called medicinal leeches, so somebody's still using them for medicine, like scientifically they're classified as that, so it can be really hard to get a phlebotomy appointment. I'm just saying a brief moment. We have talked a lot about the specifics of having blood drawn and how we'd all like to have our blood drawn in different ways from each other,

some of us at home, others in a medical setting. Yes. Um, but I just would like to take a side quest to complain about the mosquitoes that we have Los Angeles. Now. It's amazing. I left Los Angeles for almost five years and when I came back there were mosquitos. Yeah, it's a new development, it is. Yeah, and they're this horrible kind that brings the West Nile virus and other you talk about the eighties. Yeah, they're called a E. D

E S, which means like annoying. Yeah. And there's zebra mosquitoes. Yeah, they're scariest things. I had never seen one in l A but I saw one in Louisiana and I was like you just so when you see a creature you've never seen before, you just are like, oh, no, I have no context for this. So let's freaked me out. Because I had seen them in New Orleans and I was like, oh cool, we live in a swampy climate now with lots of mosquitoes bite you. They're called ankle

bitter mosquitoes. Yeah, yeah, which they definitely are to me. It's very humid here and we do have the mosquitoes. I don't mind the mosquitoes as much as I mind the ants. Still, um. This morning, I had another kitchen ant issue, and mine seemed to be immune to all kinds of like ant repellents and the dusty earth stuff that dry out. Would you rather have to deal with like a million tiny things or one giant thing? Oh, one giant thing? It is too vague, need more info?

You mean people, what's how giant tiny ants? Or like the ant from Honey, a giant cockroach? I mean I feel like that's the like, I would rather have ants to deal with than cockroaches. But but I also would rather have I think what I'm thinking in this more abstractly, I'd rather have a large thing. I don't know i'd have. I'd rather deal with one large thing, unless it were larger than me, in which case it would rather deal with small things. Yeah, I mean, like, would you rather

have ants or like an elephant that wanted to kill you. Yeah, but what if it's like the choice is like a cockroach, an elephant sized cockroach, or like bugs that are too small to see? Well, how many bugs they're too small to see? You don't have enough information? Make your pitch? I I guess in that situational word problem problem, it's a psychological new math. If you have an answer to this question, won't you please give us a call it to four oh four six night or you can email

us at night called podcast at gmail dot com. Again, the question is would you rather battle at cockroach unimaginably huge proportions no limit cockroach or a multitude but not specifically, how many of very small and swarms? For a coastal question, it is a b coastal question. Well, another bicoastal question. Also speaking of bloodsuckers, UM, I have recommended reading this week UM from the New Yorker a couple of weeks ago. Uh, there is a pretty good it and oppressing an article

about Silicon Valley's relationship with SLYN by Andrew Morantz. UM. I think it was in the August twenty six issue UM, but it is online and we'll link to it on our notes. UM. I just it was such a I don't did you guys get a chance to read this? Okay, So it's kind of about how this like zig zagging relationship that that slyn this this retreat in northern California. It's like what three hours from San Francisco. It's around

Big sir Yeah, around Big Sir. Um. It's always been the sort of like influencer hub, even before there were influencers, and now you know, recently, it's been a place for all these Silicon Valley people who feel guilty about the hell world that they have made, um coming to get in hot tubs and sweat away their um conscience. Like I didn't even know if they feel guilty. Oh they do, they do, but they don't feel guilty enough to do anything like very helpful. Very It's all very strack to them.

That's like all that stuff. That's like the Steve Jobs thing of like you stop taking mushrooms to like have a experience and get it out of your ego, and you start taking them to like come up with product ideas. So it's a lot of like hippie themed things, completely

divorced of all context and meaning. I mean, I think I think that so a lot of the things that they do that they have these big detox retreats, and so the journalists went on one of these retreats, and a lot of it is just this sort of verbiage about um plugging and having like a more conscious relationship to tech and trying to pass it onto your users

and everything. And it's also just like reminds me of like completely separate issue which is like kind of the class stratification of screen time now, which I feel like we've talked about on this podcast, but just that now the idea of like keeping your kid away from screens, especially with kids, I think has become this really like class in this class you think it's the new like my kid doesn't watch TV? Yeah, totally. I think that's

becoming a thing. And I think that, um, I think that a lot of families that are like especially famous, who can't afford childcare all the time, are more likely to just like you know, sit their kids in front of the iPad or whatever. Well, to be fair, doctors do say you shouldn't let them have a lot of screen time, right, Yes, oh yeah, I think it's totally accurate. But it's like it's like that idea is like reaching

one part of the population and not the other. And I think that there's like I think that like UM is sort of bearing out. I think the thing with screen time is it's like the downsides are so hard to explain. Well. I think a lot of the issues in terms of parenting and screen time is that I think it's an almost impossible thing to achieve to have your kids completely not have access to screens. Especially I mean, once your kids are in school, most public schools and

charter schools have screens. Their homework is done on screens obviously. UM. I think you know, usually with pediatrics they tell you to avoid all screens before three. But that's also impossible if you have multiple children, unless you're able to like have separate wings of your house. UM. So it's kind of just this impossible thing. And I think that's also

discussed in the New York or article. UM. They are encouraged to call work W because you're not supposed to talk about work W talk my W is this and it's like it's very discouraged talking about work. But I mean it's kind of this we're in this world with these two extremes. It's really hard to moderate screen time. I think that's kind of why people tell parents to completely deprive their kids of screen time, because they figure

it'll at least cut down on it. Um. But yeah, it is a it's a totally it's an economic issue for sure. I mean it's not just having childcare, but it's having the kind of childcare that's like the Montessori ody crunchy childcare, and it's you know, I don't think

it's practical, but I definitely think there's too much. I mean, I guess the idea, like from this article that the thing that on the surface, just on on optics level, the idea of these like tech billionaires going to this extremely expensive retreat to not be on their phones, like not being on your phone and like you know, unplugging from time to time or trying to reconsider your and this is like for people who are the very top of this industry, Like that is all now like a

luxury item. So this is all like goop stuff. Well yeah, yeah, I mean it's all a part of it. So like that was the thing too. Like when Jack Dorsey from Twitter went on that fast, everybody was like, if you were a woman, this would just be called like an eating disorder, Like you're just depriving yourself of nutrition and your brain is gonna like overheat and maybe some weird stuff will happen, but that doesn't mean it's like good for you. Also, the silliest thing in this article is

that it is people going to unplug. And also there's no cell service, so even if you wanted to plug in, you couldn't. But all they do is talk about unplugging. They seemed unable to resume any kind of like normal pattern that you might recognize from the olden days. Yeah, everybody is there for work. That's the funny thing about no W talk is that everybody is there because of their work. So it's like, but don't talk about it.

It's just like not it's like blinding yourself to this elephant in the room instead of like I don't know, having like a really constructive conversation. I feel like even when was like originally founded, it had a reputation for being silly. Yes, it was all like unplugged from what existed then to unplug from, which was like TV. I guess, yeah, have you guys? You guys have never been No, I want to go so bad? Are I? Almost went to Aslin.

Just take back everything that we just said about us s. When I was I was on my honeymoon in Big sur and there was this thing of should we go to Aslin? But I was too afraid. I never knew, and I was too afraid. Yeah, so I didn't. I'm I never knew, but I felt intimidated by the prospect. And also the sulfur smell is referenced a lot in terms of the hot springs at Eslen, and I was I was unsure if I would like it, said it smelled like lavender and boiled eggs. That's not my jam,

It's not my thing. I'm afraid of hot springs ever since that person got melted in Yellowstone pardon me, Oh, they got in a guy because I thought it was a hot melted their body. Yeah. Yeah, Ike's definitely talked about on this podcast. It's, you know what, all the horrors went together after a while. I have my own favorites that always flowed to the top. So we wanted to take an email that we got at the time of recording. Right now, still still shaking off the time

warp here. We did a podcast about Midsummer which we recorded shortly after Midsummer came out and in the interim time the Midsummer Director's cut, which I think clocks in at something like four hours. Um, way to go, our yester, Uh big fans here that has come out. I have not seen it yet. I really want to see it. But we got a call or an email rather from christ and Seattle who says, hey, welcome back night call missed.

You went and saw the director's cut of Midsummer over the weekend, and the white supremacy stuff is for sure validated. Early on there's a swastika on a Nazi book of runs. Josh is reading Love Talking Midsummer and wanted you to know in case you haven't seen the extended cut. Um, so you got y'all. Y'all are validated. I mean, I just like no, but this was like Marshall McLuhan coming out from behind the pole, right, Molly knows everything. Um

feels good, thank you, Chris feels good. Yeah, And um, our other our other friend Oscar sent uh something about how there's also a banner that appears in the movie I think in the original cut too. That is, it's like one of those like over the Road type years that says like stop people coming from the immigrants. So I think the subtexts was real. Yeah, I mean yeah, it's ah. I can't wait to see that movie again. I want to tell everybody to follow the Brandy with

an eye. On Twitter, she did a really good thread about going to the Minnesota State Fair a hundred times and then she was like, oh, what, you could just set midsummer at the Minnesota State that makes sense. She was like, you put somebody inside a butter cow at the end, what she was just taking an Iowa original being inside of a butter sculpture, of not being inside but the butter sculpture butter sculptures. I think I'm down. And there were a lot of like scary uh scarecrows

done into celebrities. There was like a Felicity Huffman college admission scandal scarecrow that was terrifying. That kind of stuff gives me such bad I also watched Children in the Corn for the first time. Never see that. That's that's wild, It's so good. I saw that movie so early, like way before, and I was one of those kids who didn't have a lot of screen time. Guys, so you

saw but this is weird. I'm saying it's weird though, because usually I'm not the person who's seen this stuff as a kid, But for whatever reason, I saw Children of the Cord when I was like eight or something. Yeah, it's so good and it's very midsummery. Yeah, no, totally, and the original story is even more midsummer I guess

the movie is a little happy ending Earth on the original. Yeah. Well, we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to talk about the conspiracy that is on all of hard vides right now, let's not lie. Welcome back to Night Call, and now the moment you've all been waiting for. We're going to talk about some alleged allegations that are alleged pill me. We're gonna uppel everybody.

Molly is going to take the lead on this, because if anyone follows Molly on Twitter, they know that Molly all the time. Now about the Epstein scandal. I bet I just posted about other things too. No, but you have a lot to say about Epstein. It's fascinating, It is super fascinating. It's fascinating because it has like tentacles that go into everything and uh, there's so many stories keep coming out that are so insane, and it all happened in front of everybody. That's a crazy pocket. So

I went on a deep dive the other day. This is maybe what you're talking about in the Getty Images where I looked up her name is. We still don't know how to say it. We're calling her Jis Lane Delane Gillen, G M. Maxwell. Yeah, a lady, an evil lady. She was all over Getty Images because she was a socialite. In addition to being a fixer, whatever PM whatever else criminal activity she was allegedly doing all alleged trafficker, alleged underage trafficker of underage girls. She was also like hosting

things in her penthouse, her skip weird nineties weird town house. Although, as I was saying, like I was looking for these pictures, I was trying to find other pictures of her townhouse because there's one picture that appeared in her townhouse that actually was too creeped me out too much, um, which was the picture of there's like a double mask on the wall, um and it's it's just in a totally

innocuous party photo. She held a party at her house with I think Dom Perignon, and so it's just party pictures from that party, and then in the background of a bartender, it's like atmosphere. Those are what they call the photos that are just of random stuff at a party, and it's just a guy pouring a drink under this like terrifying Satan mask on the wall. And then people in my comments are like, hey, look at the print

on the cloak under the mask. There's this symbol all over it that everybody knows is the internationally recognized symbol for pedophiles looking for children. And then what is the symbol? It is a my angle with a spiral inside and it is printed all over this thing, and it does look like a mask that comes down off the wall and like has eye holes, you know. But I couldn't find out anything else about it, and people were sending me screenshots of something that they claim come from because

again I can't, I don't. This is when I started to feel like I was losing my mind. Uh, they were sending me screenshots something from wiki leaks that alleges that these are like the international symbols that pedophiles you use to attract each other, or and there's one that's like for girls people looking for girls. That's like a butterfly with a heart inside. That stuff always kind of tips off my bullshit radar. I have to say the secret syml stuff because it just feels like satanic panic.

It does, except then the symbol was all over the thing, and I was like, well, what does it mean? Doing a bit? They're like you guys right, also like I'm not going to look that up because then it's in my search history. I'm not going to search like, what are the symbols that pedophiles you? You can't believe you don't have tor yet. I mean even if I did, I don't think I would want that in my browser. Um, the whole thing. I mean, when you go on a deep dive about miss Maxwell, it starts to get it.

You start to feel like you're playing with fire a little bit. What break our brains about this is that

crazy days and nights just posting about it constantly. Um, for years they were posting about there's this billionaire pedophile and he has a plane and he takes people to his private island, and all sounded so far fetched, and he was kind of doing it in the context of like this is going to come out soon, which is like and and the thing is with Crazy Days and Nights, he had all of the Weinstein stuff on there and like, but all that stuff was where I think we were like, oh,

Crazy Days and Nights is going total cuan on. Like it turned because I was like, oh, they're implicating the Clinton Foundation. And then I was like, oh, the Clinton Foundation is implicated. Like all of this stuff was real. But what is crazy is when you do start tweeting about it, you get people from every side, and those sides are that like, Liberals think that Trump is totally responsible.

Trump people think that the Clintons are totally responsible, and Europeans think it's all Prince Andrew and whoever is the closest, they all have this thing. What is also so weird because because I was like, maybe this will make the Q and on people come to this realization of like the Illuminati is just that people with money can buy their way out of crime. But the Q and on is like the crazy The craziest thing about Q and on now is that they have like done mental gymnastics

to make Donald Trump the hero of the story. That's the thing is this doesn't compute with their story. So I don't understand how they're not like, oh, Trump is in on it, everybody's in on it, because that is what is it turns out true. Allegedly across the aisle, this guy blackmailed all kinds of creepy dudes into doing things that are illegal and then supposedly videotaped it. I

think on a broader note, we were talking about this yesterday. Uh, I think we haven't really talked about this Epstein stuff at all because it happened while we were away, and I think on a on abroad like not alleging anything type level, I have just been kind of I felt a little bit stupid for how much I kind of didn't like discounted any of this stuff going on. Like I was talking about the Lynn Ramsey movie You Were Never Really Here, which came out I think it was

a canon. Uh maybe came out in theaters the next year, but so it's like a little it's it's been a while since it came out, and I, you know, I love her as a director, and I read the novella by Jonathan Names because I was like going to interview her. So I was just like doing research on it and it was like the whole thing just it just made me feel so achy and it was just like it felt like such a weird Brooklyn guy. I eat Jonathan Eames fantasy about like being the vigilante who rescues all

the young girls from the pedophiles. That definitely it just felt like souper. And this was all post Pizza Gate that I read. This book was written before that, but it's still had this thing of like, oh, yeah, all the girls are getting raped and we all have to like solve the only one tough guy in Brooklyn can crack the case. But like the movie, which is like very well directed, still not my favorite movie of hers, but like has and it has like a very extreme

Walking Phoenix performance in it. Um is there any other kind? Yeah, there's no other kind. Take a moment to talk about Derga Cubos theory just just I just want to finish this real quick. But like, um, but the movie like depicts Walking Phoenix's character basically Stormy like a one man

like operation to go storm this pedophile mansion. There's and there's one in Manhattan, like an Upper east Side one, and then there's like a big estate somewhere and he goes into because he has to rescue this girl from it, and it's like it's like like aesthetically, it all feels like pretty note for a note from what we've like now would have been reported. So does I watched HUT? Yeah?

I mean, well I watched HUT hasn't been reported yet, but I'm saying, like the like Little Saint James and all that stuff like that all feels like just ripped from this book. And maybe I'm just creeped out by any rich person New York apartment where I'm like, wow, this costs so much money and yet still feels so claustrophobic and like busy wallpaper. Because the ones I looked at other than just leans, I was like, these all looked just as haunted to me as the one where

horrible things happened. Well also, I mean going back to what Emily was saying when I haven't seen it yet, but it reminded me of you know in that was also during a time when there were a lot of local panics about human trafficking that turned out to be false.

Like there was this one out here in Ikea that made a bunch of like regional news where yeah, people would become really paranoid in public spaces that there were men following them, watching them, and these people immediately assumed that they were human traffickers, and and it was later kind of like pooh pooed by realistic people. And then these people would be like, well, you're just ignoring the

reality of human trafficking. And I always thought it seemed so ridiculous, and then the Epstein thing happened, and it's all human trafficking. And then like all of these people tend to be such hypocrites about legalizing sex work, which would be like the way that would actually help stop trafficking. They're like, no, we have to ban ale sex work because it will lead to trafficking. And then it's like,

well that's how things like this are able to happen. Yeah, yeah, the whole like the trafficking thing again, Like this is why all of my skepticism was up for this thing, like or anything like it up until this is that like I don't know, I feel like anytime I'm like a hotel late at night and I just turned on the TV and it's like some late nine night news thing or like sixteen minutes or something, it's always some like deep report on like human trafficking. It's happening in

your name exactly. There's so much scaremongering and there's so much it's it's like the most fetishized like kind of crime. And it always feels so gross to me, how much its sensationalized, And I think like disproportionately. Maybe it's like, yeah, I mean, maybe it's good to be a little naive about the exploitation of like teenage girls, because otherwise you just want to like blow everything up all the time.

It was truly a lot of evidence that was also disturbing to read and also so tragic and horrible, terrible stuff to read. Horrible. But on on a tangent to that we all looked at I believe the bridget read cut article on I just I just hate saying jis Lane? Is it gis Lane? Jis Lane. I don't think you said the s. I think it's is silent. All right. Let's call her delane Um Jolne. Maxwell's twin sisters have their own wild stories. They are indeed some wild stories.

If you have not yet dunked a foot into the Lane story is honestly like the tip of the Iceberg for the weirdness of this story that encompasses everything weird about world history. Um. And then I think also this made me be like there might be other things like this. If this is one that we know about now, who knows what else is going on. That's why they have

a conspiracy podcast. Guys. Still in some way like it's like it's good that you take the rock off and all the bugs come out, and then you have to deal with it. Like there's so many people trying to make this story go away or end or be like, wow, he's dead now it's over. Suicide is tragic suicide, so sad, it's definitely a suicide. Yeah, this issue comes home to roost every day. But it's yeah, I mean, it's like it doesn't end. There's new stuff constantly. It's going to

keep going. People are going to ask everybody involved about it for the rest of their lives about it, and they should. Um. But there was the story that about the sisters was crazy because it's about how the father, Robert Maxwell, who was this crazy like citizen Kane type figure, evil right wing guy, his whole family was killed in the Holocaust, so then he tried to replicate it by having six children because he was like, all his siblings died except for him, so he was like, I will

recreate my dead family through my family. Uh. And so there were twins in addition to Jolne, and one of the twins married uh I believe his name is Robert Melina Roger Malina, the son of Frank Molina, who was one of the original jet Propulsion lab guys, who was part of the Jack Parsons thing, the whole uh douvil worship kind of sex called early rocket tree stuff, which again it made me think about that stuff and be like, oh yeah, there was a lot of like let's do

some rituals and have some weird sex and see if it helps us get good at rockets going on? Then why would we be surprised that all these rockets in front all these tech people. Well like then this is like what we talked about with Midsummer is like, as soon as you start going into esoterica, there's no coming back. And for whatever reason, all these like tech people and rich people, they reached this impass where it's like I

can buy everything. But wait, what about The other twin Isabelle, who whose third husband Al Seckel was an optical illusionist who was hanging out benign but he was a scam artist. And then he he had a scientific conference on Epstein's island. Um, and I think he rumored to have fallen off a cliff near his home, just like Jolene's father was rumored to be maybe pushed off the boat. Yes, I think it just yeah, once you start thinking about it just makes you be like, oh, did rip torn really die?

What is real hiding out to come back? Yeah? What is reel? Molly? What are your favorite Um, you don't have to necessarily endorse them, but like what's your favorite current theory around the Epstein case? Um, Like, maybe just do one for flavor. I'm kind of think of what was like the craziest one I heard that he hadn't heard and the double one they replaced his body with Anthony Bourdain. That was one of the rumors. It's not real.

That's the thing. You follow this go down the rabbit hole and you start to be like, well, this crazy thing is true, and it makes you understand how people turn into que and on people or get red pilled because it's like normal, like crazy thing, that's true. Crazy thing that's true. Crazy, thing that's too crazy, thing that's not true, isn't less crazy than any of these other things. And plausible deniability is how these people get away with it.

And like class issues, like people trusting that the rich or not having pedophile islands. Never never trust that for a second. But again, it just needs to be like I guess I wasn't as world weary as a thought because I didn't know about this. Uh, you don't have the imagination and creativity of like a rich per I mean, I think it's also really disappointed, but maybe not super surprising to see how many dudes got taken in by

this guy, you know. Especially it's like he's he's a fustrating of scientific community, right because that was after he got busted for being a pedophile. He came back and was like, I'm going to give all this money to M I. T And Harvard and all these science foundations to figure out how to live forever, and like put my egg dick on ice so it can be brought back in the future to prize other people. He's like only preserving his brain and his weird shaped dick. You

know what. I love though I keep saying this but like it brings me no end of happiness. That like, these guys can buy anything but a bigger dick. Well the egg ship, Well, I don't know how to do if you want to go into but I'm just saying like like that clearly has so much to do with why I mean not that sounds like enlargement, gonna ry it whatever it is, it couldn't be fixed. He was never going to get what he wanted, so he had to do all these illegal, evil, sociopathic things. Some people

just shouldn't be given power. Agreed. Yeah, well, nobody should have an island. That's true. Nobody should have an island. And that's the official Nightcall stance. Correct left us, Well, maybe I don't think we could have a peninsula. That's you know, I actually feel like a peninsula has a much better an inlet cape. Yeah, an inlet. An inlet is actually more our speed. I would do an inlet.

That's what we want. We're like murder, she wrote. I like places you can only reach by boat, like like where there's an inlet surrounded by high cliffs, so you can only get their own I'm a little scared of boats now, I'm a little scared of boats. And also my whole deal is I need to be able to walk to a grocery store. So I'm just letting you go to work because it's just it's a requirement. Um, I think we should take a really brief nightcall. Which is kind of a comment. This one comes to us

from Bata. I'm cutting this down, but basically this is this is the important part, and this is directed to Molly. I figured I should write in with my contention that Molly's celebrity doppelganger, or like the older relative who everyone always calm and looked just like you when she was younger, is the princess of Morocco, Princess La la Palma. This is the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me. Are you looking at Lalla Salma? Yeah? I looked her. I looked at her far and I was so flattered I

almost I meant to do this. Um. There was an Instagram ad that was served to me for jeans, and the model of them did look like a dompole gamer for you, you have a lot of doppel game and told. It's also weird though, when somebody is like they were just like you and you're like, what does that mean? This isn'ertain. She's she's very glamorous. She's of Morocco. Definitely has your eyes. I mean, I just I'm going to do a Connecticut Yankee and King Arthur's cord? Is that

the one? Or is the Prince and the pauper? Where do you switch places? That one? Though? This is my homemark movie. You're a Moroccan prince, Christmas prince, and maybe a Moroccan princess who finds love. Um, well, we're gonna take a break real quick and then we're going to move on to something slightly lighter than Jahrey Epstein. All Right, so we're back. Um. Also in the interim, since we have last been with you, Laona del Ray released a new album. Uh, one other person in this room is

excited about I'm excited. Um. Laona del Ray is like a classic night called Divider. I feel like or like a to one divider. I have a lot of two one. I'm super allergic to Launa del Ray. I won't go I I take no pleasure in not liking her. I want to give her all the credit that you guys do, but I feel like she's not She's not what she gets credit for being That's all I'll say. She is, I guess our cat power now, which is so cat

power we still have cat power. But I mean like she's like, I feel like I also got in a fight with somebody because they were like, hey, it's fine, I don't like Lana. I like cat power, and I was like, I mean it's not also if they like each other, so it's fine. Um. Anyway, she released an album called Norman Fucking Rockwell iconic title for an iconic album. Um but, and I'm a huge fan of it. I loved it. I listened to it all the time in

the car. Now it's like great because last time I lived in l a Ultra Violence had come out that summer and I just spent I remember spending my last summer out here just driving around listening to Ultra Violence all the time. And now I'm back and now I have a new lawna album listened to in the car, great driving music. Um but, Lana got into a little bit of a fight with a critic, which is I

guess what all of the pop artists are doing this year. Um. She got in a fight though with like the the music critic, like of all the music critics to who wrote a really at all that I would say positive review. Yeah, a very clear eyed and like very engaged review by empowers um at MPR, which will definitely link to if you haven't read it by now, even though it is

very controversial at this point. Um Yeah, I mean, I love the review was incredible, and it was and I was reading it, you know, knowing that this thing had happened where she had called I wanted called Empowers out, But I was also thinking, like, man, five years ago, would you have a review of this like depth and quality about Allana del Rey record. I don't. I don't think so, like not like this is Like I think what's difficult for people to understand is there's like two

things that happened. Like first, there was a shift where finally people would take female artists and pop artists seriously in the mainstream the way they consider indie rock and wrap and all that stuff. And that took forever, and I feel like dudes maybe don't know about it as much because they didn't have to push for those reviews all the time and be told like that doesn't matter. That's not on the same plane as like Kanye which is not true. So she puts Kanye in this place

on this record, So that happened. And then there's this other thing that's happened, which is that musicians keep using Twitter specifically to get people fired from critic positions that they disagree with reviews of. And I think once people realized they could do that, they started doing it, even

though it makes me think it makes anybody anybody even fired? Well, I oh, yeah, no, I know of the one, but I feel like the big ones from this year, like the Lizzo one and the Ariana Grande thing, I don't think those people got fired. Didn't Nicki Minaj get somebody fired for about review? I don't know, and I know what you're talking about. I think so. Also yeah, speaking from personal experience, no, I mean people, there are a

lot that have not been reported that that super sucks. Um. The thing about the this Lana clapback, I hate to use that word um she I mean she basically took issue with and power is writing about her career from like kind of through the lens of like a like personas that that Lana has adopted and moved in and out of, which I think is like fair as many people, and her mentions were saying her name is not actually Lana Delfrey. That is a name she made up because

it's like her artist persona. She's went through many before that before becoming famous, like she is a person who uses personas. But I did find and because I was, I generally get very um upset when I see artists doing this kind of thing. But I did note that in all of the things, Like Lana's very harsh in her response, but she did not say funk all critics or like you shouldn't have your job, but nobody says

I too, didn't know. I hon to say, like I can't wait for you to be lit, and when people will say like you shouldn't have like critics shouldn't be an occupation, Like if you're an artist, you should know how to make a record before you can critique an album, which is just I guess you're right, yeah yeah, um. None of that was called into question in Lana's response,

So that's something. But it's still like it's weird because it keeps being people who are like otherwise doing well, Like I understand why like Azalea Banks comes for Lizzo because it gets her pressed and she's mad that she blew it herself, you know, but like, I don't get why Lizzo comes to a critic because Lizzo is having like yeah, and I have agreed with other things, like when she was like, you know, why do people treat

me like a singer instead of a rapper? Like if Swaylie and post Malona rappers and like I'm a rapper, which is also true, and people were like, why is she coming for Swayli and that one. I was like, no, she has a point, like yeah, I guess, uh well, I mean for me, it's just like it should all be a conversation, right, Like, I don't think anybody has

the last word, not the artist or the critic. I think the real it's also because artists don't do like really in her no, they don't do so although she like she did some really good ones, but I think it is weird for people to be like, oh, the

relationship does go both ways, but only sometimes. But it wasn't one of the issues that Lana took with the piece that um she that you know, the point was made that she does not really have any strong positions on anything, you know, like social activism, feminism, all of that, that those things had been mentioned, and that Lana felt as though those things should be out of bounds and that everyone should just be very grateful that she gives people whatever the words were of like the benefits of

my graciousness or something. That's sort of weird too, because like I feel like on the last album and this one, like she is actually like being more political than she's ever been before in her music, in her very long a way. Um and and so it's odd to me that she like there's a whole song, I mean not a whole song, but like half a song on this album that's like I'm pretty sure about the whole thing where she was going to perform in Israel and then everybody got mad at her and then she tried to

perform in Palestine but couldn't so canceled. Both that what happened, So it was this big like bad look thing where she was and really like she was really playing that card of like my gift is that I am just an inspiration to everybody, and like tried tried to do that, but everybody was just like you can't, that doesn't work well. She also said that she had no interest in ever discussing feminism that it bored her, and that was at a time when that was such a fraud question that

I think everyone did resent being asked. I feel like people should resent being asked. It doesn't everyone feel like women are equal? I can we take it for granted. I think that thing is that when someone goes so far is to be like, actually, I don't feel like women are equal. It gives me such pause, and then I think of, you know, I mean it was the Harvey Weinstein line and Coca Cola and then having that kind of removed. I mean, she her whole. I think

it's her image. I don't think it's who she necessarily is as an artist. It's like the window dressing that goes along with it. I don't think is it's not clever, it's not appealing. Her lyrics can be clever and appealing, but a lot of how she packages herself deserves criticism.

I think, yeah. And I think that's the great thing about Anne Powers's review is that it is about how like she is actually taking all of these anxieties that we have right now, especially about how like men and women relate to one another, and like not necessarily doing the comfortable thing with them and not like not doing like something like quote unquote empowering about it, but actually just like sifting through all the weird contradictions and stuff

of that, which I think is something I've especially liked about her music these last few albums, um or like her lyrics these last few albums. But yeah, I mean I think it's a little disingenuous of her to say that, like she's not like that, she's that she's not interested in that stuff. I think everyone just needs to not have social media. Well, I think also just for her specific image. Like one of the things that's good about it is that it is so like old Hollywood, like

removed from the constantly interacting with your fans personally. I feel like the more distance you give people, like, the better that works. Yeah. Yeah, it's this album though, is so like like low fi digital though, like even all of her like singles covers are just like shitty selfies she's taking. It's like critics don't know what's going on

in an artist's mind. Then, Like that's true for sure, and like we've all been guilty of, like think peace saying about things that are just you're really just projecting your own feelings about like, that's all criticism is, I think it is. You're just projecting your own feelings onto something somebody ate. You're not necessarily saying what you think they meant. It's what you feel when you hear it. But if somebody wrote a think piece about me, I

would be so mad. Right if somebody was like describing me in a way I didn't like, I would totally read it and be mad about it. Would I tweet about it? Probably you would tweet about it. I wouldn't tweet about it when you wrote a nightcall like hit piece and called us all like a bunch of dumbity.

But that's not what she would absolutely very good except well, I'm they have and we have not tweeted, by the way, and they will certainly more and as maybe they should, and they should be happy for the gifts of our benefits, as I think, like having been a critic and a person who makes things like I think on both ends, you cannot try for this like tower, like this tower mentality of like I am projecting this down to you. You all take it and you shut up Swift. Yeah,

it's very that's very tailor. It's very like it's very pre internet started, and that's just not the way things work now. They never really worked that way, but I think now it's like more apparent than ever. But like, and you make a thing, whether it's a film or write a book or an album, like that is the beginning of many conversations that you have no control over. And now there's like controlled access with the illusion of uncontrolled access. It's still I know that this is a

very different thing. But I was also recently very obsessed with mary Anne Williamson um direct messaging Molly john Fast mother Erica Jong to complain that she had been criticized on Twitter. And what's funny about Marianne Williamson, who I do not think it would at all make a good president and I do not endorse in any way. However, wait, are you saying you love marian But I have to say one thing that I really do like about her

social media strategy she's insane. No, is that she engages in a very like passive aggressive way that that works. And then to find out that she was being snitchy by d m NG someone's mom, I was like, wow, even she like she looks pretty risk change people come at her for a lot of great shem Erica Jong

about her daughter. Yes, she was like your daughter, maybe too young to understand how to deal with these things, by the way, Molly John Fastest forty one, Well maybe she's too young to realize how nasty it was, but you know she she was criticizing me, and she was criticizing her, saying that like you should pray for people during a natural disas that that you can with the power of prayer, that's her whole flags you can cure cancer and age. She's so it's so offensive. No, I

hate her. I hate her so much. People come after her with like these really great arguments about why she's so wrong, and she maintains this like polish and RESPONSI it's very new aging. But it made me think of, you know, how easy it is to kind of keep it together, like with a lot of delray. It's like you have to be able to if you're thing as personas like you have to really be able to measure the response to something like that and realize if it's a good response or a bad response, and how to

kind of play the game. It was such a misguided what does simplest fuck mean, oh, it's too We'll get into it when I make you. Guys read Fear of Flying for the podcast that people said crazy things to Erica John all the time after she wrote Fear of Flying, Oh for sure, because she I mean, she's written extensively about her marriages and real people and everything. So I'm sure that's kind of given people the license to to

retort um. But I guess that's the point that you always have the right to respond and everyone has the right to judge you for that. Do you guys see about Nicki Minaj retiring. Mrs Petty, Mrs Patty, We're all Mrs Petty, it's time, she'll be back. It's time. Yeah, I mean, it's like a little I wish it wasn't like to get married. Don't you think It's like some people just can't have of social media because they can't resist, and that's everybody. I don't know, man, you guys, I

don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Having having no screen time in the middle of my day is like, oh, this has been a life changer. Yeah. It's like because when you get off the boat long enough, you can't I can't. It's like quit smoking, you wait a little while, and then it's poison again. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, uh, you ever see the um what's it? The dance documentary Rise that the Crumping documentary? Yeah? Yeah, Like they talk about like every day they meet in

a circle and they do their dances. But if you miss one day, you won't know like what everybody's doing, you won't understand the dance. And it's like, that's how I feel. When I'm off of Twitter for a day, I'm like, what are we talking about? Now? What's this? I first joined Twitter, I was like, who cares about anything anyone's saying? Uh? Or Instagram stories? I was like, I want to see ten second updates of people's lives because why now? And now I still don't want to,

but I still do. It's like my late night TV or something. It's like what I look at before going to bed, which is like not great. Well that's what we like to talk about here on nightcall. So if you have things you like to do before going to bed that watch Children of the Corn. Watch Children of the Corn theories about the extended Children of the Corn universe. I have a lot of questions or if you have

any thoughts about the new Leaches. Also, of course, just reopping that I'd really like to hear people's thoughts on the new leeches. Stories are crazy? Any Jeffrey Epstein conspiracies we haven't yet. Don't go to the government to Night Call. But make sure you say allegedly so that if we play your voicemail on the air, we all cut. Let us know to store your voice on that. If you know about any other weird cults we should know about, Yeah, give us a call. Nightcall is back, baby, Your lines

are open. Uh, start sending us your stuff. We're excited to be here. Just a reminder you can reach us at to four oh four six Night Nightcall Podcast at gmail dot com. And also while you're there, consider following us on social media our Twitter as Nightcall pod Our, Instagram, Nightcall Podcast, Facebook, Nightcall pod Podcast, and you can also support us on Patreon at patreon dot com slash Nightcall.

We've got all sorts of premiums at different levels. We've got a newsletter, we got a bonus book club episode every month coming out, all sorts of fun stuff and you can join at whatever level makes sense for you. And that's all we have. This week. Yeah, we're almost back to the future. Excited to be in the present. Yeah. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week. Nightcall is

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