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Instagram and Twitter at Night Call pod no Cast. I'm trying to a a better job with our socials, trying to trying to keep them hot without giving away which ones we run. We're all trying. There's also a Facebook by the way, not that I run it, but if I did, then you would be able to find it at Facebook Forward slash Night Call Podcast. It's there. But also, you know, leave Facebook. That's fine with us, That's true, It is fine. I can't leave Facebook, not that I'm running a social

media page for a podcast, but I have for other reasons. Can't. Guys, I wouldn't want you to hypothetically be stuck on Facebook so that you could hypothetically run the socials for night Call. Right, what a miserable situation. Speaking of being trapped in previous eras, Yeah, tell us, I went to the Renaissance Fair again. How many times have you been? This is my second time. I went for the it's only your second time? Yeah, I went for the first time last year. Oh, kind

of from my other podcast, North Mollywood. Because um, friend of our podcast, Jane Marie, it's a big unfair person and I hate medieval stuff, and she had convinced me that the Renfair would be my point of entry into understanding why people like medieval stuff. And she was right. Let me guess what she said. She was like, there's goats, and you were like, okay, I saw a bunch of pictures of you with goats, and I was like, that's the draw. I didn't know there were goats the first time.

And I was so delighted and surprised that there was a petting zoo, a very awesome petting zoo. Um. I think it was more like there's fried food and you can like stare at people, and I was like, in it's so hard to find that combination in America fried food, staring at people. Well you know, well you would love the Fulsome Street Fair. Yeah, I've always wanted to go

to the Fulton Street Fair. Um. I like things like that as a as you all know, Emily and I went to Times Square a couple of weeks ago and I was just walking around, just was so goofy and happy. I feel like the Renfair this year was so started it I knew, and so many people who were posting about it on their Instagram, Like I saw that, Andrew, you were there with Andrew with Kara Brown and Andrew t and reluctantly, well I love the Um well, I mean I didn't love it, but it like occurred to me.

I haven't been to one of these forever and not since I was a kid. But Andrew was like, if one person tells me like, oh, a visitor from the East, you know that. But then, uh, you know. Part of my argument for why the California Runfair is cool it's it's way more diverse than should I expect from a unfair. You know, it's kind of just like a California thing. So there's like people dressed up in unfair stuff. But then there's also just people wearing like flip flops and

T shirts and it's like pretty casual. What did you wear? So Andrew kind of he said, you know, like at the end of the day, like he had he said, they were like way more Asian Americans there than he expected. Did he have fun? But he he did not have fun. What did you wear? I'm not feeling it. I wore no. I mean, you know, I wore like a regular outfit. I was kind of cold, actually, which was great because the first time I went it was a hundred and

ten degrees and that was like a little hellish. So this was like a delightful, more English feeling because it was cold. Well, I mean as much as I'm like, oh god, you know, I cringe at the thought of renfairs because my mom would would would take them, take me to them when I was a kid. Wait, did you put on like a little Elizabethan outfit? I don't even remember what I wore. I was mostly mortified to be there, But now thinking about, like thinking back and

are imagine going to another one? It kind of bums me out to imagine a renfair where like people are wearing flip flops, like if you're going to do a bit commit to it, like playing like it's very just so cal. There's like a k rock booth at the front that was playing pop punk as you enter. Uh you know, there's a lot of like raiders over Blink two. Yeah you Link eight two and just like it's it's always been anachronistic and it's actually it's the first Renaissance

fair ever? Is this one? Really? Yeah? Really? Yeah. It was a bunch of like medieval academics who would have dinners in l a and do like cosplay and be like, let's have a night's ladies dinner. And then they were like wouldn't it be fun if everyone could join? And they started throwing it and they invented like the template of the Rent Fair, which also Andrew was like, oh, it's just like a carnival that's like medieval themed, is it. You can buy crafts and stuff, you can watch somebody

like Black Smithery. Yeah, there are ridest Yeah, there's rides, and the rides are really low tech, which is kind of cool. Um. We were there with the Jane's kid who's really cool and she was just like super stow for these rides that are like they put you on like a dragon Viking boat and just kind of push you back and forth, you know, but like for little kids, are like, this is amazing. And there's one really anachronistic great ride that's just a giant waiting pool full of

those bubbles you can go inside. Wait, excuse me, like a hamsterball to like a hamster ball for kids, but like maybe only kids can fit in. And there's just like a giant wading pool full of them with kids just like bubble ball sounds so dangerous, but you know it was. It's actually based on a medieval sport, the amster bubble ball, where the fittest children survived and they were they moved on to the next round. I like every time they missed. It was. It was really fun

to go. You know. I'm just like enchanted by everything. And Andrew and Kara were definitely way more skeptical. Carol was kind of like, you know, like I don't really want to live in any other time. I don't really maybe I was yeah, and then I was like, well, what would your like, what is your ideal fair, you know, like what what would be a theme you would be into? And we were kind of talking about that I feel like we've never really reached a conclusion of your era

or just like what you know. Besides, because I was like, there should be more fairs, like not just renaissance you go to in Egypt fair, That's what I said. I was like, really, I'd like ancient Egypt land that the West World that I would most enjoy. And I think part of it is also like you go into the past to be like, thank God I don't live in

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for a deeper night sleep. So go ahead and order your Lisa Mattress and get a hundred and twenty five dollars off at Lisa dot com forward slash night call the deepest discount we've ever offered and the deepest sleep you will ever have. I mean the fairs I like, honestly now thinking back on it is like a good state fair. I love. I've never been to the state fair fair themed fair. I used to go to the

Goshen Fair and go I think Goshen. I don't know if it's even New York or Connecticut, because it's where everything meets that part of New England where you're like where am I England? In New England? Goshen Fair And it was a lot of like drink the milk from the cow and like guess how much the pig way? Yeah, I probably enjoyed that. Even it was SuperFect great. I mean, we love to the Renaissance Fair. Somebody was holding like a cut off pig's head and we were all a

little bit like, I don't know about that. That yeah, this, um, we'll see. I grew up in Iowa, where like the State Fair in Iowa was like the musical State Fair is based on that state Fair, Like it was like the mother of all state fairs for a long time. Of the Iowa State Fair is that like where they make sculptures out of butter and stuffing it is that is the home of the butter cow um and many

other butter things. Uh, and I mean all of the I just loved after I kind of got a little too old to just go for rides, I would just love going to all the craft halls and seeing everybody's like incredible quilts and stuff like I got really quilts every time I would go to the fares because I was like, look at how much time people spent on this, and it's like it's like so heartwarming to see like all these moms across our little state, like you know, when and baked all these fancy pies or made a

fancy quilt or something. It's very it's very sweet. I like also like a little feminist because it's like, look at all these art forms that yeah, never get value, like baking home baking, and we can come up on stage and like get a ribbon or a trophy or whatever, like baking and for like sewing and stuff like that. At night quilt and we should make a night called

night quilt contest. We had at our high school. There was like some some like throwback count fair type events that it just makes me think of stand by me, Oh yeah that too. No piating contest will not make me think of all the throwing up. That's a real, real in every inaction of that happened at our high school. Well, I'm not going to make you, but I will just say it was exactly the same. Oh it sounds horrible.

I was like, that's a state fair and fair in general thing I will never be able to enjoy again. I mean, the ren fairest fun. You guys should go. Uh. I drink a breakfast beer, which I don't think I've ever done. Is that I don't know that something kept calling it. Are you sure it wasn't just because you were drinking a beer in the morning. I was just in the morning. It wasn't like a coffee flavored stout. Andrew ordered a guinness and he was like, I'd like

to try one of these Irish beers. I've been the colonies, fetch me one of those. Also, the people working the beer booth are so drunk. Yeah, or it's a little you know, I mean it ends at seven too. I could see where it would get a little sloppy after hours, but it's fun. It's fun for a little bit. Is it going on so by the time you hear this podcast it will be over? No, I think it goes like it goes into the month. I think through everybody check it out. Um, it's a big, big fun thing

to do for a little bit. Shout out to Irwin Dale, big fun thing to do for a little well. Also, like the place where it is is like this big fake lake that is really cool. Um, that just kind of reminds me of Zodiac, reminds me of the beach that they go to and Treeless. Yeah, it's like one of those weird California like we gotta put something in this place for people to hear in it. Yeah, it's

like a giant track of the park. Seems like a cool place to go not at through unfair well speaking of scodiac and then going off that, yeah, good transition speaking for things that span California and are spooky. Well you're not gonna say. Okay, So they found they found who they think is the Golden State Killer, which is now old news maybe, but Joseph James D'Angelo, who was seventy two I think, was apprehended in Sacramento after he

was tracked down using a genealogy website. They found his um extended family members who had joined the site, and then they were able to find this guy. And uh, it was interesting because it raised a lot of privacy concerns obviously, So the website that they used was g e d Match, which is open source and doesn't have the same privacy restrictions as UM ancestry, dot com and twenty three and me. So they're the police may have been more limited if they had used one of those sites.

We don't know if they tried to use those sites and then ended up using g d match because there were less um safeguards in place. But what's interesting, Like my first thought, and I really want to hear what you guys have to say about this. I was like, well, how could that really be used to? Like, I mean, they caught a serial rapist and serial killers, so in a way like privacy seems like an afterthought. But then I started spinning out about the different ways that that

could go wrong. What do you guys think? Well, I would love you to tell everyone what you told me before we started recording that you were watching The handmaid and Tale Handmaids I keep saying, I always because it makes me thing about the Handmaiden, which is also really good better. Also, you're in that renfair zones. You're like, let's just make it a maiden. I was telling Molly that. So I'm watching season two of The Handmaid's Tale, which is really good but also just so scary. I just

feel like I can't submit myself to it. It's like too much. In the future, you'll be forced to subscription. It really shows kind of if you're unhappy with the politics in this country, which I think uh I am at least, but watching why What's wrong? Why? What could be wrong? What could an? Kanye Um I just made test listen to the new Kanye songs and I took little videos of her reactions. She did um one of them she just started face probleming really hard. At a

certain point, it's just hard. I mean, I love Kanye, but it's I can't continue our relationship anymore. At this point, I have to take a breather. It's just too much. And I love t I, so at least that was like a nice foothold there. But I found the first season of Handmade's Tale to be much easier to watch because I think at that point I still had a lot of optimism that, um, by this point in time, we would not still be here, but we are. So

the second season is kind of intense. But I was watching it and then was reading on I think tech Crunch. A couple of days ago they posted um a thing about the Golden State killer and the privacy concerns, and I was like, well, how could this be really catastrophic? And it takes a lot of mental gymnastics, is not

doesn't seem at all plausible. But if you wanted to freak yourself out, you could think about if abortion were made illegal and if um the idiot that got fired from the Atlantic for saying that women who had had abortions should be hanged, and you know, Mike Pence got together in a little room and decided that that was going to become law. Then of course, um, if you'd had an abortion for any reason, you could theoretically be tracked down via your family members who were registered on

an ancestry site and hanged. So I'm just saying, worst case scenario, that could be a way that privacy concerns would be valid. But I was like, I guess you also have to start thinking very carefully about how this could be used against certain groups of people, Like about that. I've been very skeptical of twenty three and me because like somebody that I follow on Twitter was talking about like, oh yeah, it totally could be used for eugenics. That's

basically like it's a record of people's ethnicities. You know. It feels like if there's an analogy where like Facebook was laying down the infrastructure for you know, the last presidential election or something that I kind of I can imagine a scenario in which three and me and all these other sites are laying down the infrastructure for something that I don't even want to think about. Yeah, I mean, I obviously this is not like new that tech and

eugenics are connected. Because IBM did all the punch cards for the duck camps and the Holocaust, And it's interesting to think about IBM as a company that has this like super dark history that just any company that like does something really fucked up, and then it's like, let's not think about it, because obviously a lot of companies that involved Nazis keep coming up one night call like every time I'm at a shoe store. Now I'm like a little bit like side eyeing myself for wanting Adidas.

I'm like, maybe I shouldn't buy Adidas anymore. Maybe I don't want lots of other shoe brands. The sauces at the Renfair, I was like, you know, now seems like not the time to get into Celtic jewelry, you know, like definitely something I like have liked in the past or been like, oh, it's you know fine, But I'm like, nope, I don't want I don't think jewelry. But your snob about medieval stuff. Yes, I'm Irish American, Obviously I don't

trust those Brits. No. I went to the Irish Fair, which was an Irish theme Renaissance fair at Lake Balboa. So while I've never been to the Renaissance fair. I totally went to a Renaissance fair that just had like more pan flute. I want to say, druids and stuff. Yeah, nights and lords and I don't care about I'm not into royalism. I'm into like, you know, veganism. Oh you guys, I'm so sorry. Can you hold? Is it okay if I go for five minutes? I'm okay? Sorry, Yeah, it's hey.

Is she gone? I think she's gone? Um, you know Mother's Day's coming up, and uh, what are you getting for tests? Oh? I was thinking we should get her a hundred colorful blooms with a free glass flows from ProFlowers. I love the way you say, Vaz. I'm right there with you. Um. ProFlowers is an amazing place to get flight. Have you ever ordered ordered from there before? No, I'm excited it's gonna be. Mothers will be my first order.

It's so easy, it's so easy, and it'll be it'll be great, just because you know, we want to make sure the test doesn't find out. Um, you know, we don't have to actually like drive to the florist or anything like that. I hope she doesn't hear this podcast before Mothers me too. So, like Molly said, right now, our listeners can send one colorful blooms with a free glass face or vase either one just plush shipping handling

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Day shopping done for all the moms you know. Just don't be a bum and be one of those people where Monday comes around and you're like, oh, man, I forgot Mother's Day. Because you don't want to be that person that's some twentysomething ship like get your together. It doesn't just have to be for your own mom. You can a mom in your life deserve to be appreciated. So Mother's Day is this Sunday. Don't forget to show mom how much she means to you. Whatever mom means

to you. So go to pro flowers dot com. Click on the blue microphone and the upper right corner and use the code nightcall for a hundred colorful blooms and a free glass vase. That's pro flowers dot com code nightcall. Yeah, hundred colorful blooms with a free glass face for just plus shipping and handling and against pro flowers dot com code nightcall. Let's go get some flowers per tests. Okay, I think she's coming back. I would go to a wicker Man fast that would be I mean, I guess

that's burning you know it. Though I would totally go to Burning Man if it weren't in the desert. The fact that it's you love the desert when that kind I've always said, like I would like to go to like wet Man. Yeah, man, I feel like Ben is into that. But it's the inside joke from a different podcast.

That's that's where um I feel like. So so there's um there's a film critic Um David Earl who I'm friends with, and he recently did a UM I want to say it was thirty five hour long marathon of all of the Marvel movies like leading up to Avengers, if any were that they high here at the AMC and UM in Times Square and he hates he hates the Avengers movies. And he did it like basically he did it like the way that people do runs like um where you can like raise money for a cause.

So um, like the more people donated, the more he would like double down on it like we're an a vendor's T shirt or something to it. Just and he was raising money for every town the like gun anti gun violence. UM. And I haven't actually checked in with him. I don't know how if he survived. Actually I think he survived. I think I have evidence of him surviving.

But I think that we should do that but for burning man, like see how long we can get Molly to stay in the desert um and every every day, every successive day, more money from lose me for what did she ever do to you? Emily? I want to go, Yeah, well I was thinking too, is like where Emily and I and probably not Tess would really like to go is Electric Daisy Carnival in Las Vegas, because it's like a Renfair. That's eat, It's an E. D. M Fair.

Well now now, I mean since our last podcast, I feel like I feel like we almost can't revisit the well anymore. I almost feel like it would feel like I was just chasing a dragon indefinitely. But I don't know, well, you know where you can chase some dragons. I gotta one of the big new and things that the Renfair was.

Everybody had what I first thought were animatronic dragons on their shoulders, and they are you know, they turned out they were puppets, really good puppets that were designed by designed by this guy who designed Admiral akbar Uh Dobby, the House Elf and some of the Labyrinth creatures. And they were like totally looked like that, like all of those things, and they were like little shoulder dragon puppets and all these But who's opera? How do you control it?

You have like a little um squeeze thing you use, and these people had it cleverly hidden inside their costumes. So I thought it was an animatronic that just like moved its head back and forth. But it was, actually, that's offen that you could control. And my friend's kid got one and she was so stoked and she needed to go go to the Goblin. That's awesome. I think other people's enthusiasm for stuff always makes me excited. I'm like, they're having such a good time. But also Andrew was like,

they're so desperate for like attention. Everybody is just like, please, sir. Sound. I know we got like way off topic and went back to talking about the Rent Fair again. But I actually have some questions about the Golden State Killer because I don't really I didn't really know about that Golden State did until the book came out. And uh, they're saying that that's not why they caught him, but it obviously seems like it drummed up in the case. It's

really awful how they haven't. I mean, she got so little credit from law enforcement, which is curious because I mean this she she put so much work into it. I've I ordered the book, but I haven't read it yet. Everyone I know who's read it says it's incredible. Obviously this was finished posthumously. I think she co wrote it with journalist. I watched the forty eight hour special, which was really good and yeah, I mean it is crazy. I learned a lot about he was like a rapist

in the Bay Area. He did it was Sacramento, and then he went north and south right, he ended up in southern California, and then he murdered a bunch of people in southern California, which is why he's called original. Night Stalker is one of his names because he predates the night stalker. Correct. I think his first crime was maybe in night um. Yeah, so, and then he they when they were initially profiling him, they said that he would not stop that they thought he would not stop

committing crimes until he was dead or in prison. So at a certain point they hypothesized that he had been jailed for something else. Um, but apparently not. Didn't it maybe match up though he like took a job or had kids or something. He was a former police officer. He was either in the Navy or the Marines or something, and then he was a police officer and he was fired from the force because he stole a can of

dog repellent and something else, maybe a hammer. Um. I did a lot of reading on it, but it all just like kind of washed over. Me because I was aware at some point I was like, I'm just going to look into all the like horrible California crimes. And obviously, Um he was very prolific and he you know, he tortured his victims. He was really sadistic UM and he you know, targeted couples and uh and women and he was kind of striking. I think at one point he

was he had one victim a month. So for Sacramento, you know, everybody was kind of like as soon as it was dark, everybody would get really freaked out. If women were home alone, they'd be particularly freaked out. And after the zodiac, right, so it's like that's what I'm not sure about. You said I started in the seven. I think it started in sevent zodiac start with in the late sixties. But just it does feel like it's

like the man do you think everybody? I don't know, because like at least inspired by maybe not a direct copycat, but like a good question. Like it's like, how were there so many killers that are in northern California? It just feels like in southern and there's that feeling like the thing about the Manson murders that everybody talks about.

Is like after the Manson murders, everybody was just like so paranoid and freaked out for like years afterwards, because it's like, even if nothing happens, everybody's like close lock all your doors at night, and like if you're alone in a area, you know. So I just looked it up, by the way, and so it was from seventy six to eighty six, and he killed twelve people and raped at least forty five and burglarized more than a and

he's so terrible. So he's known as the Easterea Rapist, the Diamond not Killer, and the Original night Stalker, which is why some people refer to him as Eurons, which is like Easter Area rapists slash Original night Stoker. Right, those are like the message boards. Uh, but you know, I saw some people online being, oh, we shouldn't give these serial killers like nicknames. It glamorizes them too much.

But then I heard somebody else tell me that apparently giving them nicknames help people get caught, because it like sticks in people's minds if there's a nickname and something about that, like when you give you know, give a it just gives it like a narrative the couple can understand. The grim Sleeper was one of the ones that I got really interested in the l A Weekly, the when the l A Weekly was the l A Weekly before

it was the VC l A Weekly. Um, they did a lot of amazing coverage about the grim Sleeper, who was one of the reasons all weeklies are so important and why what happened to the l A Weekly sucks so bad, um, is that all weekly report on local stories the national papers would never report on, and especially like things like the grim Sleeper who was targeting a lot of sex workers, people that didn't have, you know, families to advocate for them, or also in areas of

l A where there wasn't a huge police presence and it was really hard to you know, for families to advocate for you know, deeper investor, here's the police presence

and they just don't give a fund. All. That's true. Yeah, And obviously the fact that the Golden State killer was a cop, you know, ties into a lot of other things happening now of like, hey, maybe we can all admit that like a lot of sociopathic people become cops because they want to kill a lot of People One a weekly news podcast that keeps you informed but doesn't take itself too seriously. Subscribe to Fake the Nation and

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you listen. New episodes drop every Thursday, just in time for your commute home. This is a crazy it just it did feel like this week was sort of like, uh, like a couple of glimmers of hope, you know, like this guy maybe getting caught. And then also the Bill Cosby verdict came out and I think everyone I was surprised, I know, and so jaded about things like this, especially about sexual assault. But I wonder if he'll spend any time in jail. You know, the fact that it happened

at all. I'm still just like, wow, you know, maybe maybe things can change, and maybe all the people that are like nothing will ever change because it's in their interest to feel that nothing will ever change. You know. That's just like, I mean, it is kind of incredible that between the first trial and the second trial that there was just such a huge cultural change and me too happened. And then to see you know, the victims crying in the courtroom after the verdict had been read

was pretty well, that was yeah. I mean that New York magazine cover was really big obviously because of just that image of like, oh, here's how many people are being just completely discounted because the famous guy doesn't want to get in trouble for being such a up. It's so weird that now we think about everything about like pre imposed me too. I guess that's like, you know, the power of a a hashtag or a name for some or name of a movement or something like that.

But like that, it was so there was such a run up to like until we knew how to like organize and talk about a problem like that, and that was a huge part of it. Yeah, I think acknowledging it was part of the part of the issue because I feel like a lot of people were in denial. You know, definitely I did not know how bad like things were. Oh my god, I know, you know. Also I think, I mean, hopefully the next stuff for this is for states to reconsider the statute of limitations for rapes.

I know that I think California is reconsidering that. But obviously, with Weinstein and Cosby, that was an issue that kind

of made it more difficult to prosecute. Obviously Andrea Constant was the only person who could bring anything against Cosby, and yet there were so many women who you know, had gone through this well, had identical stories exactly exactly not like totally identical, but some of the details of like his method of operating, we're so similar from story to story, um, which is like a thing you see across all these guys, especially powerful guys, who like are

in a position where they can just have a protocol and just operated over and over, and a lot of them, uh seem to not be able to stop talking about it afterwards. Like what I kept saying about all these like guys coming back after times up, you know, they're like they don't even understand that you should hide out for a few years so you can construct a believable redemption narrative. They're just like, Okay, six months have gone by, everyone's forgotten all the bad ship I did here I

am again. Well, so wait, you were tweeting about this? Who do we so Louis c K. There was a like a bunch of comeback articles. There's one about Louis c K. There's one about Rose, and there's one Charlie Rose is going to host a show apparently where he's man who've been victimized by the times of movement. And James Franco had like a fleff piece like he's turning forty, like he's really you know, he's not going out much

these days. Yeah, that's so sad, gee right, I mean the like Hollywood Reporter has been doing a lot of irresponsible ship lately, and that they did the one on on Louis c k uh like talking about it wasn't even like a reported piece. I don't think it was just like it was just like comedy clubs. And I got really piste off about that because I got an argue my friend about it where I was like, he doesn't have to we don't have to let that happen.

Apparently he's been I've heard from people he's just been at comedy seller like every night, just watching but not going up. And it feels like people New York say they've seen him like lurking around bookstores and movie theaters and like testing the waters of like being out in New York. Do I not get booed out of the like bookstore or whatever. But it's like most people, like

I wouldn't. I wouldn't like boo Louis c k out of a bookstore and just be like go home, you know, Like, I don't think any of us are saying that if you do things, even if they're criminal, even if you know you cross lines and you've proven yourself to be a horrible person. I don't think any of us is saying like that you should just disappear necessarily. But I do think that there's that the amount of time in exile, so to speak, is so short. I mean, the Louis

Ka allegations had been going on for so long. He had been kind of avoiding talking about them, not totally denying, but just saying, well, that's gossip. And I feel like I don't know if he actually there was a that weird thing, and I think Gawker where he was power to be like, well, he knew he was doing it, and all the women he did it too, knew he was doing it obviously, but it sounded as though he kind of tried his best to not outwardly deny but at the same time to kind of gaslight the women.

It was all part of some like sociopathic kick where it was. I mean that he clearly got off on almost getting caught all the time, which is I think it happens for a lot of these dudes. It's like they like getting away with it, but also like if nobody noticedes they're getting away with it, they're like, oh, I should make it like more and more flagrant each time.

I mean, I think in an ideal world, what you would want is for someone to step aside long enough to let other people, maybe even women rise and to help women, you know, to help women without seeing this kind of That's how I feel Also about like the John Krick Flusi story that came out, which was such

a breaking John kues a pedophile. We didn't talk about that. Yeah, he's the renaissimpy guy, and they were just all these stories about he dated teenagers, and the teenagers just like openly to like like work, they worked for him, like in the studio, like they were interns or something, but they were also his girlfriends, which is just he wasn't even trying to train it. Uh yeah, I mean it was. It was horrible, and it was another one of the stories.

We were like, oh and also like a lot of people knew, and we're like unknowingly complicit or knowingly complicit, cause they were just like, well that's the boss. Like well, including the sources for the story for the BuzzFeed story, they were like, well, I guess this was going on along and I guess now probably m I think kind of either stepped away from him or tried to distance

themselves because they felt so uncomfortable. But yeah, nobody, nobody really stepped up, and I think a lot of people took responsibility for not stepping up and saying like at some at some point, the girls felt bad about it because they were like, I idolized him and then he took advantage of me, but like you know, they were, it's so fucked. It was so bad. The BuzzFeed story was we all read it around the same time we had been thinking about I think talking about it on

the podcast for a while. Came out March twenty nine and it was called the Disturbing Secret behind an Iconic Carts and just all these stories, I mean, all these dudes.

I guess what ultimately it comes down to is like the lengths people are willing to go to like protect some guy that they think is talented versus like all the women that they do funked up ship too if as long as those women are like not famous, And that's been a criticism of the me too movement is like, well, you know, if these women weren't famous white actresses, would

anyone care? You know? The way it's getting covered is and of course a lot of them are not famous actresses or famous cartoonists because a lot of them can't really stand to work in an industry with a person who Tandy Newton, who's awesome, like said something about just like, oh, I wasn't really asked to go to me too, and like I've been speaking out about this for like a

billion years already. Yeah, oh sorry, times up, not me too, times up, And she was like yeah, like I didn't get invited at these meetings, but like you know, it's because I'm not like hot enough as an actress. So it's also crazy because she's on this world but it was like film actresses only. So I think there are probably also dudes that are hoping these movements will just sort of like eat themselves, you know that, like it'll it'll devolve into in fighting and then just die down.

So uh, that won't happen. I don't think. I don't think people are going to get unpiste off about this. I mean, I think what what's truly interesting about this is that with m Cosby, obviously that cover photo of the victims and just seeing this year a number of

them was really striking. And then with the Krick Feluci thing, um, the BuzzFeed story had pictures that he had taken of his girlfriends and they were so young, I mean like they were children, and like the thing was that nobody was even being like like people usually doing people day teenagers were like, oh, you know, she looked much older, like you would never know. It was like you see any you're like that is a kid. And also I think if you were like a cool girl kid who

like watched her and stimpy. It's such a bummer because you're like, oh, I was like a thirteen year old on AO well and like if any of my heroes had like targeted me, like that's like the ao L

conversations just like, oh, such a bummer. And I think also the other thing that's a bummer about about um Krick flucy is just like I think it's a bummer anytime you see somebody does something like subversive or weird and you want to believe that you like, you know, like especially something I run in simply that like obviously had like a lot of parents groups or something up in arms and a lot of people, you know, like it was it was deemed you know, gross or something,

and you want to believe that that any charge against like somebody's character who would make something weird or or subversive or something would not turn out to be true. That like you can be like chill and also make weird gross stuff sometimes and it's totally okay or like stuff that feels a little bit pervy, but like also

not be an actual uh predator. Um. And I think it's just a bummer when your faith and people to be pervy and challenging and subversive, but also not a creep like it's it's I'm also like always horrified by just like how easy it is for people to leverage power in those situations, like no matter how niche the interest is, you know, yeah, like all all animation, like of course there's going to be like uh, you know, revival and art movie house theaters, which happened to different

as in a family in Los Angeles saying at the Alamo Draft House, Uh, you know where predators are being protected. Uh, and you're like and people would just be like wait, but like it's an art house movie theater and it's like yeah, but like if you get a bunch of people that are really want to work in an art house movie theater and you're the guy in charge, like of course you're you could exploit that power, and it's

like on you not to do so. And there's also a thing where it's like no. But I do think there's something about like alternative workplaces because I've been thinking about this a lot in terms of like how two thousands vice kind of normalize a lot of stuff that then turned into the all right, you know just of like oh, if you were offended, then like you're sucking uncool, you know, and just like all this like oh, we're breaking rules at work, like we're smoking weed inside and

like getting drunk during the day, and then how it like normalizes kind of like oh, let's just break other rules that like are in place for a reason, like sexual misconduct codes. Well, also with I think with Sinni family maybe most notably, there was also this thing of like everybody's working because they love it, and people aren't necessarily being paid fairly, and also they're being worked so hard that they're staying and you know, they were like

staying very very late. You know, like it was kind of like well the perks or that you could do whatever you wanted and you had this very very casual atmosphere, but you were also like really trying to prove yourself, and so it created a lot of opportunities for someone who didn't have the best interests of their employees at

heart to take advantage of that. Yeah, I mean everybody I know who worked there has talked about how it was like a really culti atmosphere and how there was a lot of like fear of going against you know, the lying that was happening, right, it was, and they just went through a million people to you know where it's like they I don't know, it was, it was, But it's interesting how it was, Like that was right for the Harvey lind scene story came out and everybody

I knew was very involved in it because I know just a million people that have worked there or done things there. Well, aren't you popular, No, it's just like if you're you know, everyone in the indie film community had like a relationship to this place in Los Angeles.

And then uh, it was so you know kind of well it is the only place like that in l A too, Like there's so many rep theaters and more aren't house theaters in New York, but that was like really a nexus for that in Los Angeles, aside Beverly,

which is also run by a perth. So right, So there were also people when that got shut down being like, well, like the theater shouldn't get shut down, Like this is like we're losing a valuable resource, which is like, well, we can have new theaters run by people that like won't exploit that power and you know, sexually harass employees. Yeah, when you can't get when you can't let go of the legacy when it's gone that far in a bad direction.

I think also there's a thing where it's like when you're a young girl and you're getting into an industry and you like desperately want to believe that people are believing in you because of like your talent and not because they want to hire you because you're like a young girl. You know you will you will overlook a lot of behavioral any better. Also, I think out of

wishful thinking too. I mean, yeah, I think I think that really hoping, hoping that whatever you suspect, whatever you feel in your gut is going on, is not the case. And that was what was such a bummer about the Crick Felucy story to be is that these are young girls who wanted to be animators and who you know, one of them left the industry because she felt so you know, disturbed by what happened to her, and the

other one is an animator who's super talented. Um. But yeah, just that like you know, they want they like if you're a nerdy girl and some guy comes to you and it's like, hey, you're really cool, and like your animation is really awesome, you know, and it's like some older guy you idolize. It's just it's like, you know, when you're on the other side of it, you're like, oh, of course that's a fund up power dynamic. But like, if you're a young fancocious and you want to think

of yourself as an adult, also, I just don't. Yeah, but you're like adult men take me seriously and then you're like, I hope that's what's happening. Hey, maybe not the lightest but necessary. Yeah, it's it's I think it's a it's stuff we we we talked about a lot off air, but I'm glad that we we got to it. Well. I think for everybody that like works in culture and is thinking about all this stuff a lot, it's also really dreaming and exhausting to think about and deal with.

And uh, I think editors need to keep that in mind when they're assigning stories to people, that they're not always assigning traumatic events stories to people who already have the burden of thinking about that stuff a lot. Hey. And if you are assigning traumatic events stories or research pieces that are going to be emotionally draining, pay people, yeah,

barely pay umfair. Also everybody scoop up everyone from up rocks who got let go because they're all super super talented and you can easily find the threat on Twitter. But um, some really great people lost their job last week, so we're in the middle. I feel of another wave of media apocalypse, which I don't know. We'll keep talking about that to be continued. Yeah, there'll be more of that. UM. Well, well,

thanks for listening to this week's Nightcall. UH. Please subscribe to us if you haven't on Apple Podcasts and leave us a review in a rating. We really appreciate it. You can give us a Nightcall at one two four oh four six night or an email at Nightcall Podcast at gmail dot com. We haven't read any recently, but we are going to very much make up for that

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