108: Unhappy Science

to take care of. We wanted to kick things off this week with a night call or night email rather from our listener. Lacy. Lacy writes, after listening to your conversation with Gia and reading her article, I could not stop thinking about the O G. Twilight Zone episode number

twelve looks just like you. I'm sure you all have seen it, as I've heard you referenced the show often, but basically, the episode takes place in a dystopian future where every teenager has to undergo the Transformation, where their bodies are changed to fit a conventionally attractive and fit numbered model of their choosing. The protagonist is a girl who refuses to undergo the transformation, which no one around

her can understand. Ultimately, she's forced to comply, and as you find out, the transformation also brainwashes people into conforming. It's incredibly depressing. But in addition to you know, looking good, the transformation is supposed to lengthen lifespan and provide immunitated disease, conflating beauty and wellness. Botox is already being used to treat migraines, and I haven't done enough research to form a solid opinion about whether it's a placebo or not.

But do you think that as time goes on, more cosmetic procedures will be touted as having health benefits or do you see cosmetic and medical seizures being packaged together to persuade the so far unconvinced to get on board with plastic surgery. Well I hadn't until just now, and now I'm like, of course that will happen. Oh absolutely so I Um, I my mom sent me a care package recently, a few weeks ago, and she gets Vogue.

For some reason, I think Vogue is one of these many Um, this is my conspiracy theory BTW about like print media right now, which is that a lot of if you start to get a magazine mysteriously that you never subscribed to, like they're just doing it so they have their circulation numbers up. They're just randomly giving you a subscription so they can tell advertisers that they are circulating to so many people. So like Vogue is one of these magazines that do this. I think here's what

I think. I think when you start mysteriously getting a magazine that you've never gotten before. I thought it was to replace a magazine that went out of business, and they're like, we don't have Mademoiselle anymore. Now you get Tremor. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean my mom never subscribed to any I don't know whatever. Any short, this is a very tangential part of the story. So she she gets, Okay, you can admit that you love reading Vogue and it's

your favorite. This last week I was I was a founding member of the fashion club at City High School in Iowa City, Iowa. I love Vogue. I love and and Win Tour. I love everything she stands for. Did you see andre Leon Tally saying that she has no empathy. Yeah, scathing, But wait, I want to know what's in this care package that Emily's mom sent because I'm curious if it's

like d I y plastic surgery stuff. So there's an article about like, I don't know, I'm probably not going to pronounce this correctly, but guash shaw the like um like facial massage um. And it's actually pretty like So I was just like, you know, flipping through the Vogue and then I started reading this, well, I was like

eating my eggs or whatever. Um. And it's so funny because you know, it's like this, you know, it's one of these many things that gets touted as like ancient Chinese secrets and like some like these these you know, mystical health benefits that can help rich white women look younger.

But it's so funny because like they talked to one of the one of the doctors that really helped popularize it and make it into this like you know, glammy thing where people are like selling jade rollers for hundreds of dollars, and she said something that I thought was so funny, which is just like, the skin is a map for what's going on in the body, which to me, is just like a great excuse to be like, if you look hot, then you're healthy. Yes, totally Guasha gas

saw I started. I kind of had heard of it because a friend of mine does it and she just like loves it. But you take it's a stone that's kind of like thin and almost like it's not super sharp, but it's thin on one side and then the other side is more rounded, and you sweep the you know, you sweep it against from like your nose outward, and I guess that it's not I mean, it's supposed to make your skin look good, but it also is kind of marketed with the idea that you're you're sweeping toxins

towards your lymph nodes um. And I was so put off by it until we weren't supposed to be touching our faces, and then all of a sudden, it was like this great forbidden thing. So I was like, I don't need to buy a stone because I have all these weird crystals that we bought at or I bought at the store that was like right around from where we used to record when we recorded in a studio, that are just smooth enough that you can kind of just do it yourself, and I'm not putting weird oils on.

But I was like, this is fantastic because all I want to do is touch my face and this this gives you an excuse, but the idea is that, yeah, like you're you're flushing away all the bad stuff that's lingering under your skin. I mean, I think we've determined on this show that touching your face feels super good. It's so good, it's definitely a drug. Yeah. I'd had

my whole facial massage thing, which is less. I I don't think that that was like gas shaw but it was just like a lymph note stimulation thing and then I started breaking out for so I stopped. But vanity always rules. So I've also seen there's a dermatologist called the Skin, which I forget what her actual name is, but I learned about her because Haley Baldwin goes to her. Haley Baldwin Bieber my friend, um, and she posted about her and she does like dermatology that's also ricky, you know,

which I think is very much in this family. It's like energy healing plus dermatology. Um. I think especially energy heal your face from being ugly. Yeah, well, I think soup Is really sets the standard here with combining sort of new age stuff and putting it under the umbrella of wellness. Um. And I think you guys are super right about the idea of being like, oh, if you look hot, you must be good, which is like help

just to rock skip away from eugenics. Yeah. Also, I mean it's hard because bringing up the number twelve looks just like you. I wish actually we could just do an entire episode dedicated to this, uh this you know in this episode I guess, um, or just the Twilight Zone in general. Maybe we'll get around to doing that Twilight Zone in October. We can do a marathon Twilight Zone marathon like they do. That's traditionally January, right, we should kick things off one by just watching the Twilight

Zone marathon. Maybe, um, we probably won't be allowed out. So this is this what all finally gets us to get CBS All Access subscription. Yes, yes, there's no way otherwise. I actually as much New Star Trek as you want, I'm never going I have one. Accidentally, for like a year, I did the trial before they had released all the new Twilight Zones, and then I was so upset. I was like, if I had waited, I could have just binged them during my trial, but I just planned it

really badly. Um. And I really liked the ones that I saw of the reboot. Yeah. Um. But I think that this episode is super you know, it definitely fits with most of what we've been talking about over the course of this month, because there's it's very nightcall in that the underlying like sinister thing is that the government.

It's not that people all want to look a certain way, it's that the government is enforcing it and manipulating them psychologically during these surgeries to make them satisfied with looking the way they do and more compliant and stuff, um, which is very very white powdery. It's it's very eugenic Z. And I think that that's kind of I mean, that's there in the episode. It's not like we're not becoming

genius interpreters here, it's just there. Um. And so it does it does seem kind of dangerous when you start thinking of how doctors could suggest benefits that are not like, you know, cosmetic benefits from cosmetic surgery, or if there was a way to package those things together and to

try to like coerce people to get plastic surgery. One thing I really noticed, because I think coming out of the nineties when there was a lot of like pushback on plastic surgery, for a while, it felt like and then it felt like in the two thousands it suddenly became just like normalized. But especially in beauty magazines. I remember reading things and being like, this is an advertorial, right,

And it probably was because it was so accessible. Became just like like trend pieces about like ladies who do botox ses and it was all packages empowering to do it. Um. But I remember also reading when I forget what magazine it was in, but it was about a plastic surgeon

who specialized in like ethnic nose jobs. They were like, we know you're like a person of color and you want to get a nose job, but you don't want it to be like a Michael Jackson nose jobs, So we were going to give you like a nose job that fits your face. And it was like packaging is it is empowering? And it just like really broke my brain because I was like right, because it fed back into the choice feminism of like, well, if that's what you want, right, and then if there are social benefits

to like looking white, that is also bad. It's all bad. On the other hand, I wonder if eventually there will they will discover some kind of benefit of something that is like a cosmetic person. I mean, just like with the botox and migraines or botox and nose jobs and

and deviated septoms. That's always the excuse. That's a lot of times that's that's sometimes that's very real too, like your nose, like yeah, yeah, or you can do that, like that can be real, Like that could be an excuse to be like, oh and then I'll fix this crooked thing in my nose while they're in there. I also think breast reductions are obviously mostly done by people who are suffering health problems because of carrying too much weight and like they want to reduce their back problems

or what I like. Obviously there's no qualms with that. I wonder what they'll come up with though next. It's also like a freedom of choice aspect to it. Were like sometimes people who get a lot of extreme surgery, it's like for their own personal happiness in a way that has nothing to do with people finding it hot, you know, right, yeah, um, yeah, I think it was funny. This has nothing to do with surgery, but just about

the idea of like who you're looking hot for. A friend of the podcast, Michelle Dean tweeted today like, oh, it's so great, Like the quarantine has made me realize that like has really permanently done away with the idea that I had that I was putting on makeup and and and dressing up and like looking you know, trying to look good for myself, because I've completely stopped. But

I have the exact opposite experience. I think it's different stokes for everybody, because I nothing has has given me more distraction and soothed me than putting on makeup for nobody else, like just being around the house and just having a full face of makeup. I put on makeup today for the podcast because it made me feel like I was going to work. It's like I'm awake now type thing. I don't know, No, I even brush my teeth today. Honestly, I'm so far off the spectrum at

this point. It's crazy. I think. With what Emily and I are talking about, it's also kind of like a like a jokering up thing, you know, I referring it putting on your paint while you're crying. Yeah, I refer to it often. I probably should stop doing this. But there's a Simpsons joke where Homer makes a makeup gun for Marge. He's like becomes an inventor on one of the things. He invents a makeup gun and he accidentally shoots it at the wall and it just like puts

a full face of makeup on the wall. So sometimes I say, like, I'm going to go shoot the makeup gun at my face, because that's what I think of it as it's just like true. Yeah, like it's like a cartoon gun. It's like a broader rabbit gun. It just goes like splut. And then seeing my Instagram stories, I love your vampire put on the clown face. I want to shout out to makeup artists whose work I really like that have been bringing me enjoyment during Quarantine.

My friends Sandy Sandy Ganzer, she's amazing. She's a great makeup artist, and in Quarantine, she's been doing all of the looks from Kevin Oswan's Making Faces Fun Super fun book. It's so fun. I love it too, and I like so like I never even bought it. I just looked at it at the bookstore all the time. My friend had it, so I would always look at it her house. She's doing all the looks. She's running out of wigs, so if anybody wants to send her wigs to do

some of the remaining looks. And she did one on her husband to four days ago, she did the show Girl on him. Um. And there's also a makeup artist that I've been following for a while whose name is anything for Selena's. I believe there's a lot of a's and s is in there, but she is just like the most incredible, like avant garde makeup artist where she does a lot of really just outrageous stuff with eyeliner that is very inspiring to me. Ragious lineliner. Oh guys,

I bought an eyeliner stamp and I love it. I said, I wasn't brushing my teeth, are putting on any makeup. But the other day I my daughter wanted to do a photo shoot, so I busted out all the stuff I had and this has you have a right and a left, so it comes in a pack of two and it you stamp the wing and then the other side of the the other side of the thing is like a pen, so you can just fill it in and it's so much fun. It's very good. Test. It

sounds like you're living a very French lifestyle. Oh really, letting a four year old do my makeup, just like not brushing your teeth but wearing eyeliner. You're wearing a very a very nice like um scarf. Today, I am wearing a bandana that I got to wear as a face mask. But I have decided not to go anywhere for you a zum background of the beach. So I just keep being like, oh, tests is yachting today? And then having such a silly in my closet. Look at what I can do if I turned my head, I

raised my body. It's like plastic surgery. It's very meta. Now, just ahead before we move on from from number twelve books, just like you, um, I wanted to uh to bring up this book series. Is why I book series that I have read like half of the first one, just like in the bookstore when I like in two thousand nine or something, whenever it was out, and when I was convinced that writing a y book would be my

ticket out of poverty. Um, it's called The Uglies, which is basically it's basically like a straight up rip off of Number twelve. Looks just like yere, except there were like four books, and it's of course like a whole Hunger Games esque type dystopian why adventure. But um, it's about a world in which, uh, when you start to go through puberty. So when you're young, you're called a literally like you're just like a little a little human. When you turn twelve and you start to go through puberty,

are called an ugly. Uh. And you you were made an ugly until you turn sixteen, which is when you get a procedure called the Operation, which turns you into a pretty. And then you become a new pretty and you get to move out of um you get to move out of the suburbs into New pretty Town, which is where all of the new pretties live. And then as you grow older, you become a middle pretty, a late pretty, and then oh yeah, late pretties are also

called crumbullies. This is like very roll doll or something. No, totally yeah, it's very There are there are four books. I did not read all of them, but I just I thought that the concept was. It was so hilarious and weird and also predated you know what we've been talking about, where it's suddenly become the norm for young people,

not just you know, aging people to get plastic surgery. Um. And yeah, it's about like a girl who decided she doesn't want to go through the procedure, and then there's a whole there's a whole camp of of of renegade teens who have decided to remain uglies. It really sounds like not the ugliest part specifically, but just the kind of way it's constructed reminds me of the Tyra banks Y a no novel Model Land. Mom. God, wait what I did not know about that either. They introduced it

in an episode of Top Model. It was like a white book with her name on it that they put out. And then there was like a pop up event that opened or didn't even open right before COVID hit. That was like the Model Land pop up event, but it was like Hunger Games where it had all this jargon in it, and one of the things was like it was like the Magical Kingdom of pot Ladam, which is a model backwards. Oh my god, no, I'm looking at the Wikipedia for it right now. A young sofkward looking

girl by the name of Tokei de la Kreme. It's invited to attend the legendary boarding school Model Land. It's like about Tyra Banks moving to New York to live in an apartment with other models, but then like through a Hunger Games lens, it's the funniest thing in the world. Oh my god, it sounds deranged. Uh. Publishers Weekly considered the book over long, can't be and warped in a non stop barrage of surrealism and wackiness. There's also a Olsen Twins Why a novel that they put out that's

about like like twins, like like special twins. A lot of people were branding their names on what about a Night call Y a series? It would never do the same thing that Emily did. Were clearly someone made probably my parents. They were like, you know what you should do is right? Why a books? And I was like, but I'm like too too old and too young simultaneously

to do that. And I remember trying to do it, and it's like I was just so, I was like, these are children, I'm writing these like horny books with like murder and just being like, the kids love this and then being like it seems so wrong, and I kind of why A I wrote, I mean entire why a book that wasn't time like chock full of murder and sex and drug drug overdoses. That's what boks are supposed to be. Twenty four, I mean, I've been reading like Pretty Little Liars and Gossip Girl and Ship. I

was like doing my home. It was like a purely mercenary project. So crazy though, because I also remember reading a Gossip Girl book when I was in college and being like, this seems really bad for teenage girls. That's the problem, because you're like your inner skulled, like your inner Grandma's like I don't know about this. It's not

just that it's like I don't know. There was like a younger person who was tweeting about how why A books gave them like unrealistic expectations about how they were going to make out with so many boys um as a teenager and like become pretty magically. And I was like, you know, becoming a hundred years old. As I composed the tweet, I was like, wow, you know, when I was young, Why A books were all like from the seventies and eighties, and they were about like getting a

back brace. Are you talking about is he willy Nilly? No, I'm talking about the Judy Blue one. Deane. I was like, I mean, I was like money out. There was tragedy,

a lot of tragedy, and like before y became sci fi. Yeah, I was like, why A. I just remember being a lot of mundane books about like someone being embarrassed because their mom packed them tuna salad for lunch for middle class well, everything was about people dying or caution or people getting abducted, like the Milk the Milk Carton books. Feel like I read all the boring ones that were like someone gets their period climbing the rope and gym,

and like that's the whole action. Maybe July should be July A we could do. That's not a bad idea, that's a very good idea. Did you guys read the Anastasia Krepnick books? Like that was when I think of when I think of why A, Yes, I was thinking of Cynthia a void. This is the yeah. Iszzy william Elli is a book about a girl who like loses a leg after getting it in a drunk driving accident. The whole thing is about her just not having a

leg right, but recovering. And I remember, we're just like in two thousand, maybe this will be y to May too. There was, like all of a sudden there there were a bunch of books that were called like Crystal in the teen section because they were like about Crystal math, you know, God, Yeah, yeah, Well, we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back a little more vibe checking on these coronavirus times. Welcome back to night call. Uh, guys, there are so many cures for COVID nineteen. I can't

even keep track of them anymore. Let's just bring the light inside the body and then pour bleach on the light. The thing about bringing the light inside of the body, it made me think about There was some live science thing I posted a million years ago where it was about some maybe underwater creature where their eggs are visible as light orbs inside their bodies, and I treated like, you know, men are just jealous of the visible light orbs inside our bodies. Like what you did, Molly, that

was the first thing I thought of. You planted the seed um this. So we're we're in the middle of a heat wave. Everything feels so strange right now, even stranger than it was feeling just a short time ago. But the stupid president's suggestion that people like, maybe what if we injected bleach, what if we put uv raised inside your body? Like, because it's sarcasm, Because that's how

sarcasm works, right. Our friend Elena Smith pointed out that he sounds just like Jeffrey Epstein when he was talking with scientists, just like asking questions that like any smart person would know to not even ask a scientist, and just being like, yeah, yeah, just asking questions, just spitball in here. Um, Molly, you sent us an article about kind of cult called Happy Science. Yeah, I forget if we've ever talked about Happy Science on here before. It's

like a Japanese kind of scientology. It's a good time to talk about them now, though, because they have claimed to have come up with a cure for the coronavirus, which is just listening to their dear leader's voice can boost your immunity and keep you safe from the coronavirus. This was reported in the New York Times earlier this month. I mean, don't let Trump here that idea right. They're

called spiritual vaccines. UM, the faithful can be blessed with a ritual prayer to ward off and cure the disease for a fee. I wouldn't be surprised also if some other pastors were kind of doing stuff like that, implying that like God is going to make you well. They did, and they did to argue that they should be able to keep holding services after the stay at home order. UM, so they said, you know, Jesus will save you. God God's got you. Don't worry you're coming to church. He

won't be mad and give you coronavirus. So some background on a Happy Science is that they were they're kind of like the bridesmaid to Holme, the like very notorious Japanese cult that did the serang gas attacks in Tokyo. UM. So they didn't get the same as as that cult. But the leader of of UM tried to assassinate the leader of Happy Science, so UH did not succeed. UM. Japanese culture fascinating. There are so many of them. I don't know why my people are so very susceptible to

these things. UM. The yeah, but they've had like this sort of rivalry with with that cult. They had had that rivalry with that cult for a long time. Um. And they're all kinds of Christian tinge do which is a weird thing, um because obviously, like Christie Anity is not native to uh Japan. I mean, it's been there for hundreds of years, but it is not like culturally native to it. But like there's also like they're similar kinds of things with like Korean Christianity as well. Um,

church people want to make a church. It's a universal thing. I do not but every but but I'm an outlier here. When I was reading about Happy Science, I was like, I really none of this appeals to me. Unlike some cults where there sometimes is like a like a slight hook, Happy Science just seems like kind of dour. Other than the name, the name is fun. Well. Yeah. They also have a ton of books that they've published, just like Scientology, Like they're big in the publishing game. I guess, um,

keep imprint Media alive and uh. In this New York Times article, some of the titles that they include are Alien Invasion, Seven Future Predictions, and Spiritual Message from the Guardian Spirit of Donald Trump. Um. They also have a lot of books about demons, which are very popular apparently, so I do love a demon. So guys, should we take a voicemail? Yes, all right, high night call. It's Alison from Queen's Calling. Plastic surgery April has me thinking

about the umbrella of body modification. I have a soft spot for the movie American Mary, starring Katherine Isabelle and directed by the Softca Sisters, which looks at extreme body modification in a pretty non judgmental light. I'm comparing this to the new season of Real Houses in New York where these women who have had vaginal rejuvenation on camera recently took a stand against tattoos. Where do you think

plastic surgeries places in the world of body modification? And where do you think the range of regular acceptability is going? Thanks bye? As the Real Housewives of New York watcher here, Um,

they're against tattoos. It was well, I'm so confused. If you wanted to get back into real house size of New York, now is a great time because what happened is there is a new housewife, Bethany left and Leah joined, and Leah is like she has a streetwear line and she's very like two thousand's New York and she's born and raised in New York and the other women are

all from the nineteen eighties New York. So they instead of the canceled HBO series How to Make It in America totally she did because she's like like these people are such aliens and they find out she has a tattoo and they all shame her about it and try to be like you tramp really but yeah, and and she's also like at you of um, I forget, We'll have to watch it again. It's also it's like a sign tattoo. And they also just anything they don't understand.

They're like, what she wears a bucket hat that's mesh. It's like just a fashion thing. IM for that. You know me too, And they all wear like silly things all the time time. But they see it and they're all like what is this? What what is this about? It's it's see through. It doesn't work. But they go to a party at this giant rental property in the Hampton's that's owned by some friends, some huge Trump downer. I think it's like not even you can live in it.

It's just a rental property for like great Gatsby parties and it has the worst design of anything you've ever seen, just like weird, bad fake street art. Inside it's hell. Um. So they go to that party and like as soon as they walk in, Leah's like, oh, this is like a rich, old, horrible white people party, and You're like, oh, she's been to good parties, man, Like that makes me feel for the elder housewives, well, feeling when he can't

buy you a good party. Apparently it's true, but it's so weird too to think that they're trying to be even older rich guys. So that is their scene for sure, um, but it is weird to be Like getting a tramp stamp is trashy, but getting vaginal rejuvenation on screen for free because you did it on screen, fine, not trashy. So like normal every rental party house, I'm sorry in the world, I've never been to one in the Hampton's,

but like they're horrible. I've been to some here for like different like tech events and stuff, like it's disgusting, like like only the people with like the worst taste in the world. Whatever. That's what she basically says to Ramona, which is what makes a good season yeah, you're also like, tattoos haven't been outray for like twenty years, tattoos where they never really like, I don't everybody's always had tattoos, But there was a time when they were for bikers

and sailors a long time ago. That's a long time ago. That's like Popeye time. That's what was funny is the Real Housewives were like, what are you a sailor? That's a hilarious, how weird, What a strange world they all live in. It's it's an Edith Wharton novel. I totally

recommend it. Um they all get drunk and start talking about, like, you know, Gilded Age New York when they went to parties with John John Kennedy, John John, Well, we wanted to talk in general this week our last week of Plastic Surgery April, about plastic surgery, reality TV, which there's a lot of, uh, not so much anymore, but there was definitely a boom of it, like ten to twenty years ago and during during the so called golden era of reality television, which watching some of these shows, I

would like to like maybe reduct that it was ever a golden era because these are the most depressing things you can watch anywhere, like maybe in the history of recorded media. Uh, but yeah, what did you guys watch any of these shows this post? I did into clips, but I I was shocked at how little of these I could stand being a person who was I'm so ashamed to admit. When The Swan, the first season of The Swan came on in two thousand four, I was

there for it. I was like, I'm excited to watch this show, and then I think it took me two episodes to be like, oh no, this is this is like an evil show, this is a badge. I didn't know what I thought it would be, but I continued to watch it. I watched the entire season. I could not watch the second season, but like it's it's one of those things that makes you feel so gross about yourself, like that watching The Swan in real time making space

in my like evening for The Swan pretty much. That's probably like my afterlife fate will be determined by the fact that I watched this one. But then I tried to watch so botched. I want a famous face and The Swan are the three that we kind of looked into. I I want a famous face for some reason is the worst. To me, it couldn't bad. It's pretty bad, I think, terrible, terrible, But it's still on, which is also like bizarre. Is it's like in it's like sixth seasons.

That's that's the only one of these that is still going. And both I Want a Famous Face only ran for twelve episodes, so it was only twelve episodes of it, and Swan was just two seasons, and they were pretty sure it's seasons. Someone alerted me to the existence of a show called bridle Plastic Plas I forgot about bridle Plasty that like five years ago or something. Does Extreme Makeover still exists? I don't know. I only remember Extreme Makeover Home Edition. I remember. I remember there was an

Extreme Makeover that was like for you. I think Home Edition was the spinoff. Maybe I know, but yeah, the title lascinating feel that way. I mean, I will say I Want a Famous Face, which I watched quite a bit of this week. I mean probably like three episodes of it. I watched because just whatever I could find on YouTube. Uh, I want to Be a Space is like a horror movie, and that it is quite disgusting,

Like you really see a lot of the surgery. There are there are multiple times where I just like shrieked at my I tried to watch it and it was like they you said, this one where it was this Elvis impersonator and he was undergoing surgery and they would make incisions and then they would like manipulate the wound.

It was so horrible. I don't even I'm not that squeamish, and it was way to watch, but like, and then there's a bunch where they're doing people's noses and when you see somebody like actually getting their nose sawed at, it's just like that's when you remember it's the nick. It's just the nick. I have to just so. I

just looked into it. So Extreme Makeover indeed was two thousand to show that that depicted I'm quoting in wikipedias, excuse me, depicts ordinary men and women undergoing quote extreme makeovers involving plastic surgery, exercise regimen's hairdressing, and wardrobing, so that it was canceled in two thousand seven. UM and then Extreme Makeover Home Edition is the spinoff, and then there's another spinoff that's a weight loss edition. Isn't your house just your body? Well, this is the thing. I

love a good renovation show. I know that they're like cheap, you know, it's a it's a cheap form of entertainment. It so, I mean, now, what has addicted in all of my memories of Extreme Makeover Home Edition is the It's always sunny Philantopia. Yes, they like Bompard this like Unsuspecting Family with a with a home renovation. I haven't seen that one. That sounds great. Oh my god. They

like they make up bed for the kid. They're like, it's it would be fun for the kid because it's like a taco like sheet is yellow and the side is proud thing in the world. Anyway, But yeah, I did watch a lot of what was his name, ty Pennington or Pennington's very strange. I have to say though, that like, um, this Old House. I watched a lot of little list that I watched, like which of these do I watch? Fixer Upper? I was on a real

fixer Upper. But this Old House, This Old House was a good show because it was like like a PBS show about to renovation, like brand an old fixer upper, but it's like for you to live in, you know. And then all the other shows are about house flipping, which is like, no, not necessarily fix er upper is really it's people buying the houses and then having them fix her upper to live in. Ostensibly some of them move, but some of them stay, love it or list it.

Half the people we have the people stay right, and Trading Spaces you're staying. You're just having like your you know, sadistic neighbor come make everything purple and then they make everything. I hate those shows because they do to houses what Instagram face does two faces, you know. But they all have an aesthetic, uper aesthetic I find to be like like so much ship Labs and then she's like the most She's like our new Oprah, Like she's so fucking rich.

But I hate the aesthetic of all of them. Like if it were like Taco Bed, I'd be into it. You know, they were like doing funny. That's why Trading Spaces is so funny, is that Trading Spaces has a lot of that. I just don't. I don't have the lust, the house lust. Well it's so funny. I'm looking now. I thought I wanted a famous I want a famous Space.

I thought was a more recent show, but it was also it ran from two thousand four to two thousand five, So it seems like that was the hot spot for these extreme makeover shows like Swamp because The Swan was also two thousand four. Yeah, and that was when it was new, so there was a point when they were like, we're pushing the boundaries of what can be shown on network television in prime time. Uh, and we were watching it.

I definitely watched The Swan from the same reason, thank you. So, like, I had never really watched The Swan, I had seen bits and pieces of it, but I watched some of it on YouTube this week, and like I I find

The Swan to be much more psychologically upsetting. Uh. Then, I mean, obviously I was seen these clips where they were kind of just truncated, They're just doing the reveals, but when it's like because they wouldn't let the person the contestant see themselves months no mirrors, three months without mirrors,

and they couldn't be around their families and stuff. So these people, these women have been living in isolation, like healing from their surgeries and going through these weight lost regiments or whatever, and then they the partners were all who horrified when they emerge. One of them got some like she was in her recovery the winner over the winner of Season one. I think maybe Rachel. Yeah, it was that her name. I wrote all this down. I'm that crazy. I was like, really, I thought I left

the swan behind. But apparently Rachel's husband was kind of coached um when they when he was doing the like you know, confessional interviews or whatever, during the process, he they said what do you how do you think about how Rachel looks? And he was apparently initially said that she's beautiful, and then they he was coached to to like, come on, how do you you know, let's let's be like a little more critical. So he was like, well, she's average, she's beautiful when she's happy, and then they

used that. So it was like the producer kind of manipulation of it made for like a story that was like, oh, these poor, ugly people, let's recreate them from scratch, let's mold them. But in actuality, like the relationship was destroyed obviously, But I mean that can't have helped. I'm sure it wasn't the extent of what was up. Yeah, I remember Fox Fox especially being like we're in an arms race to see who can do the worst thing in a

reality show. Yeah, because did they do Joe Millionaire as well? Yes? It did? How yeah? How could anyone else have done Joe Millionaire? But the creator of the Swan, Nelly galan Um, was the former president of Entertainment for Telemundo and also on The Celebrity Apprentice in two thousand eight. It's all one show, And I will say the show I ended

up watching was Botched, which I've never seen before. But since I started watching Kardashians again, it's like now I can watch e shows as well, and that's where it lives. So I watched the most recent episode, which was called bouber roxi Um. The titles of the Botched episodes are off the Chained Super Super PUPA short changed at the Nipple Bank, The Wizard of Shnaz, four Leeches, and a

funeral vagina bomb. Maybe it was somebody somebody tweeted at me to say that they had to close caption some Botched episodes and that there was there's no blurring when you are doing the close caption NG and they threw up because there was no vagina. Threw up a vagina with Gang Green whoa what what do you mean, and that was from a botched plastic surgery gave the vagina gangry.

Possibly something gave it gangreen. So okay, the botched I watched it was actually called Boobaratti because it was like the Illuminati, but the title, okay, the title refers to I didn't. It was like the cream of the crop of the boob ladies. But it's like two women who have extreme plastic surgery where they've gotten the biggest boobs you can get, and then they went to get more

in Belgium. Do you like extreme surgeries there? So they are the kind of people where I'm like, they're taking this to a point where it has nothing to do with like male desire. It's about their own desire to have huge boobs. And when they showed this woman before, the whole thing was that she was like flat chested originally and then she was married, um, and then when she got divorced she got the big boobs. She was like, it's my body. I'm going to do what i want.

I've always wanted huge boobs. I'm going to go get them. And then it was like they weren't big enough for her. She wanted them even bigger. Um and then she had a friend who came to the surgery with her because basically she was like the point of the episode was that she wanted an asked a match. Now she was like, I've gotten a couple of ask surgeries, but like they haven't given me what I want, which is like this but in the back, you know, like cartoon tips but

for an ask. What Botch does is it sets up the guys who are the doctors on the show who are on Real Housewives, both of them at different points, Doctor and Dr bro Adrian's husband, two of the creepy not anymore, two of the creepiest guys in the world. Yeah. Dr du Brow was on Real house as a Orange County every one. I think he was on this one. He was on this one. He was one of the

biggest creeps. And they like have this banter. They showed them like bantering about the surgeries at the desk, which is probably because it like premiered when Niptock does and did and they were like, this is the aesthetic. But they do like banter about, you know, spooning with their wives and stuff, and then they're like, okay, time to go take this chin and plan out. Um in the

span of this one episode. The plot lines were a woman who genuinely needed reconstructive surgery because she had had a bad breast implant and it made her breast look like what her friend called an elephant trunk, where it was like the skin had come off the implant and they like showed it a bunch of times. Uh. And then the women with the big boobs. I wanted a big butte, but they were like, we can't do two fat transfers at the same time because that might kill you.

It makes it makes the doctors on Bosch look like the reasonable ones because they're like, well, we can't do that, that'll kill You're showing some restraint which they never otherwise would show, right, and they're like, well compared to these other like we're the high end version of this, Like you got the low end version and that's the problem is you didn't spend enough money on your surgery the first time, and now you have to make up for it.

The other guy, this was super sad and very Heidi Montage. There was a guy who was like, it's just sad. He just like it was like I became self conscious because of social media because I went to school in South Florida, where the most beautiful people in the world are, And I realized my face wasn't how I liked it. So I got a chin implant, but he got a crooked chin implant. So he got like a ben Affleck chin put in, but it's like tilted to one side.

That's jaunty. Just live with it, and he showed it in profile. He was like, I look like American dad. I hate it um. But then rather than get the bad chin and plant taken out, he got cheek fillers put in. He got those like fake cheekbones put in

because he thought that would balance it out. His parents and sister had no idea, and they showed him going to tell his parents, who live in Again, Colorado, just like Heidi Montags, He's like normal people parents and he's like, hey, guys, remember when I said I like had a bike accident, Like I actually just got plastic surgery. And they're like, oh no, that's horrible, Like why you looked fine, There's

nothing wrong with you. He's like half Asian and half white too, so I also just was like, it's just like a Darren Chris and Gianni Versace show. It's like he he looked fine before. He was like a good looking guy, but he just didn't look like a white a white guy, tan white beach guy or something like. It's such a bummer. Um. And so he gets the chinn in plant taken out and they're like, this is like so fucked up. We've never seen this. That's what

they say anytime they take something out. And to show the surgery, it's super disgusting and hard to watch, which is I guess good that they show how gross and horrible it is. Right, and then he comes back in because he's like, I feel like my face looks bad without it. You're kidding, no, I mean this is the

thing like this. So I was going to bring this up because I do think Botch, which I've never really watched, but I feel like I've watched by proxy because I used to edit um Tera Ariano's recaps of it for grant Land, so I would read the description of everything that happened to be like glad I didn't have to watch that, um, But it always felt like even if it was even if those guys are gross like um, Terry Drew Brow and Paul nass If or like like,

it does feel cautionary at least, like it's just like, maybe think twice before you go in through something like this. UM, even if it is sort of advertising, like oh, but you know, the thing that got you into this can get you out of it. But that feels like I think ultimately I want a famous face does come off as cautionary to UM, even if like incredibly exploitative, because they always have this UM disclaimer at the beginning that says,

this person wanted to do this surgery. We're not pushing them towards like they they came to us saying like I want to look like Carmonal Electra, so we did you know it's the true life thing whatever, Like they weren't being pushed into this by anybody. But like then you just get these portraits of people who are just so especially in the case of wanting to look like a specific celebrity. It's like it's not even like I want to augment something I already have. It's like, no,

I hate my face. De Lete, delete delete, I want to look like Carmen Electra and and my boyfriend loves it. My boyfriend is so excited for me to look like Carminal Lector I'm like, whats like, like who like? It just feels it's really sad. It's very very sad to watch.

I know you guys don't watch vander Pump, but there's a whole plot line where Jack makes his girlfriend Brittany get breast implants and we made her well it's like she says she wants them, but when they get into the clinic and they're talking about what size they're going to be and the doctor's like, you don't want to go that big, Jax's is like I'm paying for them,

Like they'll be as big as I want them. This is why I don't watch vander Pump, to be honest, that psycho for for that, I mean, it is also like Brittany is like into it. I think that's one of the first things they ask you is like, is

somebody else trying to make you do? Guy? Yeah? I mean there was also a woman on this episode, the woman with the fucked up breast implant, where it was just like she'd had breast implants that weren't that great when she was nine teen, and then she had them taken out when she got married because her husband wasn't a boob guy. She was like, and then I got divorced, and I'm like, he's not a boob guy, but I am so like I got new implants and then just

like she immediately had pain. She was talking about how she had to like touch like pull the implant into the flesh through like all the time because it would like push against the flesh and be uncomfortable. What do you mean, like the muscle or it was like the implant was detached from the skin or something. But I mean, do you like you? I mean, I feel like you keep talking about Yalanda. Uh Ylanda, she says, But she was Landa Foster. But did she divorced David? What's her

last name? Now she's just Landa um Belonda with the lemon fridge and everybody knows and she's still Landa hadied formerly Yolanda Foster. Okay um she you know the lime disease plot line with her, which went on her feel like for like six seasons or something and went on forever and ever still going on on her Instagram. It's like never gonna go ahead. But like there was a part where she seemed to have cured it by taking out her implants, like her implants were leading into her

body and making her really sick. And there was also a woman on an episode of I Wana Famous Face who had so they found two people who wanted to look like Carmen Electra, and they did a mini segment about one of them who got implants and a bunch of other stuff done and like basically like poisoned herself with them and like couldn't walk anymore, Like she had been an athlete and like a cheerleader and stuff, and then couldn't walk anymore because she poisoned her body with

bad implants. Like that's a y a novel. It's that sad, like you know that. I mean, the MTV ones always like had a healthy dose of like here's how bad the recovery processes. Like they were not ever just infomercials for you should get plastic surgery. They were always like, I mean, they were always like people should have counseling, especially people that wanted to extreme physical modifications. There's usually

a psychological reason. Oh, how however, that was like the part of the Swan that was most reviled was they had a therapist. So they had like a cosmetic dentist, a plastic surgeon, somebody that like a fitness instructor or something,

and then a therapist. And the therapist only had a degree from an online college which was revealed later and everyone was like, ah ha, not a real therapist, but she these were taped therapy sessions, so they were it was really to try and like add this, you know, a depth to the makeover of like we're making her

over inside and psychologically she's a whole new person. Um. But that was like the part that really upset people the most was obviously it's like a fake foreshow therapy session, but what's being divulged is real and like what's being manipulated is coming from a real place. So in a way, if it hadn't had that, it would have lacked a

huge ikey factor that it decided to include. So I mean, just including the I think a show mandating that a therapist meet with someone who's about to maybe make a huge mistake or something for the show, in a way, it makes it even worse because it's just posturing and it could be manipulative and dangerous in a way that

without the therapist it wouldn't be. Yeah, it's like and also it's sort of this implication, even without knowing specifically what's talked about in these sessions, this implication that like you looked the way you did. They're always super big on the femininity to it's like that's the word that's like, I look so feminine. That's what like they always say

when they see themselves, which is just so crazy. But but like the idea that that you would need to be in therapy because there's something wrong with you, your psyche that has made you nonfeminine, Like it's just so icky, it's so gross. I'm just like media does work so hard to convince you that like the only way that like men will or like you is if you're the most beautiful woman in the world. And then if you

look to reality not television. Um, it's just like regular people find love all the time, sometimes with other regular looking people, and they find each other beautiful, and it's like it sucks to be an ugly woman and it also sucks to be a super beautiful woman. They both

just suck, you know, like they're just be somebody. It just sucks to be regardless, it's actually be somebody who doesn't like like the way they look and can't get over it and can't find a way through it, Like whether you are uh, somebody that most people would think is beautiful and or somebody that most people would think we're average or blow average or whatever, Like, it doesn't matter. If you hate yourself, then like it sucks to be you.

It also sucks to even just care a lot about how you look, even if you don't dislike it yet, because that opens up the possibility that you will one day truly hate how you look. That's what I feel about. Like the in culs too, is it's like if they did get off the computer and spend more time outside and like work on developing just like a personality, then like women will like you. I feel like people talking in an echo chamber to themselves about how no one

can ever love them. It's like, well, no one ever will if you never leave this echo chamber where like you're all convinced that you're like ugly and unlovable from that like a chin of your all of your examples of social interaction are coming from media and fictional media.

And if you believe that, like if you get the chin in plan, it's going to make women like you, But then you will be self conscious always that it's not the real you, or that they're liking you know, you won't respect them because they've fallen in love the piece of silic kind of my chin. It's like my big old chip. I mean, I didn't even know about chin and plants. That was the thing I learned about

on vander pump Rolls for the first time. Big chin and plants, like and I've known several people who have had either implants or because you can do a Jubideran version of it too, that's that's temporary. I also want to say that, like the stereotype that everybody in Los Angeles like gets plastic surgery is not true, you know, like most people are normal. And I would just say

it's more like rich people get plastic surgery everywhere. Yeah, um, like, and if you want to see the really bad plastic surgery and you do, go to Beverly Hills, like it can be found, you know. And I do think what botched is dealing with a lot is sort of just houses that have been flipped a few too many times, you know what I mean. The thing I mean that's

and that's botched has this weird appeal. It seems more humane than the others, because ostensibly it's there to fix a problem that isn't like an internal person you know, self image problem, but it's an actual medical problem that's causing discomfort, and they're swooping in to fix it. The problem is and I think it's hard to because I

know that. For instance, like if you bonk your head and you get like a big gash in your forehead and you go to the hospital you're supposed to they say, request a plastic certain like, don't you know if a plastic surgeon is available, you want a plastic surgeon to work on a facial wound because they'll take more care to make sure that you know, the scar is invisible, if that's what you're going for, which I guess it mostly is. But I mean, like I did I have one?

I have one trump bonking my head. You I mean we I I've got mad scars. Both of my kids have like little scars because um, they both had a in with the coffee table at different times in their lives. We did not request a plastic surgeon because we were just like, it's small, but I got doored in elementary school. It was on your bike. No, it's just running down the hallway outside the line. Combody opened a door and

I was door knob heipe. I can't see it though, Well it's just little stitches, but that was the first time I've ever had like surgery. I guess even though it's just stitches, I guess it's just the idea of like botched is doing a service that's like, I guess, a necessary service. But I think like Molly is saying, the most noticeable bad plastic surgery is just the result

of too much plastic surgery. And and this, you know, if you're if you have kind of a facial dysmorphia where you get the surgery but it's not quite right, so you get another surgery. It's all of you know, that is destroying tissue and giving people less to work with. And obviously the scary ones are the really subtle ones. This is what I was, Yeah, I was going to

say this. Kate Raft has a zine called Every Celebrity Has a Subtle Nose Shop about just like the day she realized that every celebrity has a subtle nose job. But that's not true. It's not true. But there's a lot of people who I won't name, on this podcast that I didn't know had nose jobs, and then I looked at the before and after and was like, oh,

they did have a subtle nose job. I mean, here is the thing, like my counter to the thing I said a little bit ago where it's just like, uh, you know, like the face that you have, and it's the worst thing is just if you hate your face. Like and I've written about this before because of my facial thing, but like I have a permanent look on my face that makes people think that I am side eyeing them and think they're stupid. And I've had so many people who are like, you're so snobby and sassy,

and I'm like, I'm just smiling at you. Like I would always have this with my my driver's license, because I would say I would say I would try to do a neutral face in my driver's license, and then you know, if I had to show it to anybody and be like, oh, you're like copping at tuot in you're a picture, I'm like, no, I was just trying to smile, Like I don't hate everybody that I'm looking at. Doesn't It doesn't seem like hate to me. It seems like a sassy like the B from B movie. It's like, so,

I just like Shrek. I just dread really owes animated character. That's horrible. No, it just means that, like it's like a sassy like your but I'm not always feeling sassy, that's the thing, and like I think that I, you know, full disclosure. Aside from that, I have had other very subtle things done to my face and it's really kind of incredible because people respond to it and they don't

know what they're responding to. They'll just be like, oh, you look so fresh, and like there's nothing like it's not I haven't told anybody anything, and it's just like these little which that's why that stuff is creepy, because it's just like nobody is thinking like, oh, you got work,

do any look incredible? It's just like something's different. Yeah, I feel like I don't have to I feel like I can achieve that effect with mascara because I just don't believe when people say those things to me, even if they're like, oh, you're being sassy, I feel like what they're trying to communicate is something much more sinister and evil that's coming from inside of them. And when they're like, you look good. I'm like, they want something from me, they want me to feel like they're a

nice person all. To me, it's all just like coming from within. The person that I'm dealing with has nothing to do with me at all. I don't like, how could you be wearing a bag and they could be like test I feel my face is like this rubber thing that's on over my face and has very little relation to like what I'm actually feeling. So I'm used to this sort of like gap in perception all the time,

which is very a little bit crazy making. And also like why stuff like the Swan where you were really truly altering your face like to not look like yourself at all. That is like kind of makes my stomach churn. That feels like really terrifying to me because I already feel like I don't look how I I think I look,

which is it's just like a crazy mind fuck. Just a little tweaks though, And the way that they are able to package injectables as being different from like full on surgery, because they are, you know, but just like

it's just a little needle in your face. You don't have to like go under anything That's just seems strange because it does seem like in the past, like if you have thin lips, you were just kind of like that's what you get, you know, and you just like learned to wear lipliner um and so the overline baby, So to me, I'm just me alone. Yeah, No, that totally. That is my favorite look of all times. Yeah. Also,

I feel like we all have lips. We're all fine, well I don't care about We're all nineties ladies, so we don't care about it, Like we are not afflicted by this thing. That's sure that if you if I cared, I mean I I don't think I have like big lips. Also, like lifestyle choice, I'm so de hied or at it. I'm like, what would I look like if I drank water? It would be so amazing. People would be like, have you had worked on I'd be like, no, I drank

like sixty water. Yeah, well yes, just just hose it down. But I mean, I think it's just like one of those things though, where if you start thinking like, oh, you know, well, at least I don't have thin lips. But like, here's what my problem area is. It's just it's it destroys your whole life, like it's horrible. I think if they offer something where you're like, well, I have this, but now that this exists, you know now that I could get lip filler like it is on

the menu. Now order extra oysters. One thing that's been really funny to me um as I've been browsing through the facial filters on Instagram is finding out that like all of the cutie ones have freckles, and like a lot of influencer girls have like fake freckles, which is just like funny as somebody with real freckles, where you're like, because I did the auto like face tune on you and it just evaporated your face tune gets rid of freckles.

But there's all these like, you know, cute like butterfly pretty girl filters, and they all have like a sprinkling of freckles, which looks super weird on you if you already have right well, freckles, freckles. I feel like the attitude toward freckles is always is in constant state of flux, largely because freckles. You obviously now see freckles and you think, oh,

sun damage like skin cancer. But then there was that article that we talked about on this podcast that I hold so tightly for my own sanity, where they said that if you don't get any sun, like if you completely cover up and where you know, sunblock on your face and you never get any sun, that your long term risks of health issues from a lack of vitamin D are actually more serious than dealing with a little bit, a little little bit of skin cancer, a little bay

skin cancer. Freckles. People do think freckles are like healthy because it means you've got a little bit of sun, and they did. But then I think that the kind of backlash against freckles was being told by your dermatologists like freckles are are sun spots, there's sun damage. It's your means you're going to be wrinkly, it means you're unhealthy,

Whereas like some people just have freckles too. I mean, it's definitely they darken in the sun, but it's not necessarily it's not how you look is not an indication of health. And also like as as nineties ladies, as we were saying like maybe, uh, maybe it's okay if you don't look fifteen forever, but you got some sun and had a nice time. Yeah, I mean that's that's all that I would want to look like. It's like caddl there. I want to look like somebody who's laughed

and smiled later. My aligns and ship like that are like I don't know why people want to get rid of that, Like I think that's beautiful. It was for all the like hot older French actresses that I was like, they seem to be aging. Well, then my mom will be like subtle plastic surgery absolutely, absolutely, yeah, it's just

like you are gonna get plastic surgery. Probably France would be a good place to Elena Smith's been posting a lot of pictures of like the depression era famous photograph of a woman with the true lines of life on and obviously like style goals a little bit. Always have always been like that woman in the Dorothea Laying photograph, like she lived a life kind of sucked, but like she'd be interesting to talk to. Hell. Yeah, well this

wraps up our journey in plastic surgery April. We loved all the calls, all the feedback that we got from everybody. We weren't able to take all of them because we got so many great calls. But if you did call in right in and we didn't get to you, we see you, we hear you, We appreciated it. Um. We are going to kick off Why to May next week,

exploring all things turn of the millennium. Perhaps it will be a little nostalgic given that we are actually maybe in the world now that we thought we were going to be in and two thousands. So yeah, stay tuned for that. If you have any stories, questions, comments about the late nineties slash early ohs, please give us a

nightcall at one four oh four six nights. You can also shoot us an email at Nightcall Podcast at gmail dot com, and you can follow us on social media at Nightcall Podcast on Facebook and Instagram and Nightcall Pod on Twitter, and check us out. This Thursday, we're gonna be doing a Twitch live show details. We're gonna do a party, We're gonna have a We're gonna have a cave to kick off kick off two cave yeah. Um,

but yeah, we'll see everybody next week. Give us two night calls and get ready for Why Too May Bi