106: Death Becomes Her with The Bechdel Cast

is still Plastic Surgery April. So today we will be talking about the cosmetic surgery black comedy Death Becomes Her with special guest Jamie Loftus and Caitlin Durante from the Bechdel Cast, as well as taking some questions from listeners. Can't wait, it's a great conversation. Spoiler, we already had it. Everything's topsy turvy. How can everybody's classic Surgery April going

pretty good? I know it's not Spring break March anymore, but did anyone read the story about how Gwyneth Paltrow got fired from her first job a bit a toy store because she went on spring break? Oh my god, do tell It's just amazing because there's a bunch of magazines coming out that were finished before COVID happened, so they all have a disclaimer. That's like this story was conducted before the pandemic. But they just like for press tours that aren't happening anymore, like Gal Gado Lady Gaga.

So there's a Gwyneth Paltrow one that's the header is Gwyneth Paltrow accepts your apology. Oh my god. Anyway, it's super on brand, including that she was like, well, I have to go on spring break. I mean talking about like a rich person he has a job, like and she talked about how she could get into the expensive bars because she was tall, but not the like college bars because she was too she was too upscale. They just didn't think she could hang. Oh god, I think

maybe because the fancy places don't care if teenagers come in. Yeah, so we're going to take a bunch of calls. We actually have gotten a lot of night calls and emails from from y'all so far, so let's keep them coming. Yeah, keep them coming. We love them. So perhaps you should take this first call from a listener about See Me

and Hayes. Hi. This is Emily Um. I listened to your podcast about classic surgery and immediately I'm fastened by it too, and immediately see Me in Hayes came to mind, there are those twin DJ girls that hang out with all the Kardashian girls and the Calabasa's crew, and um, they basically changed their entire appearance. They're super wealthy, and I think their parents paid for them to get a new face when they were like sixteen. It's pretty gnarly if you if you be cool there before see Me

and Hayes before old floored. Okay, so I had never heard of See Me and Hayes before they said, you guys. I had because I follow all those seleb plastic surgery blogs, which also cover influencers micro celebs, so I only knew about them from that. But why don't we explain who they are? Why don't you explain who they are? You're you're the see me any expert over it? They're twins and they got matching plastic surgery and apparently, and they

used to be like sort of cute. Nicole Kidman asked, uh, beauties, and now they look like everybody else but also Dakota Johnson, I think. But they had like big, frizzy red hair like yours, truly, and now they have like sleek brown hair. But they also just have sort of different faces. Were

a lot of highlighter they. I guess the reason there's so many before photos of them is they're rich and their mom took them to art auctions or something, and that's they're also before photos are from they're also DJs. I should point this out. I don't think that that's that's not why they're rich, but they are DJs. UM, So there are lots of pictures of them kind of like just sitting or like standing or posing by their

DJ booths at like scenes, story parties. Um, since they've had a bunch of plastic surgery, I preferred them before f y I. They are twin fluencers. Twin fluencers. They great, they have a great they had a great look earlier, I thought, Um, so other twin fluencers that I think of when this idea comes up, or obviously the Olsen twins, but also the Claremont twins who were on Bad Girls Club and then Test and I once saw them doing

a photo shoot off Melrose. When I forgot about that because I like fanned, I've freaked out, you freaked out. I had no idea. I was like, he's just obsessed with like she sees twins. It's notable to her. It's like, no, they're they're special. They are famous on the internet. Um and also yeah, famous for being these twins who sort of got matching plastic surgery to each other. That's just the weirdest thing. I guess you kind of have to. He's very obvious. What's what you've done like this to

be in a pact with somebody. This is a common thing and also weird because I am very addicted recently to watching ninety Day Fiance Pillow Talk episodes, um, which I love so much. But there there's a twin on ninety Day Fiance, and she and her her sister have like different, slightly different plastic surgery, Like they've both done a lot, but it's different, and it's so transfixing because you're like, she she opted not to do that, and like she decided to do that, and you wonder like

did they get the plastic surgery? And then the next you know, they'll your sister or whatever. We'll see her sister and be like, oh, I'm not getting that done. It looks terrible on her. I'll do something else. It's just such a like psychological horror movie playing out before your eyes. A twin is so weird. I imagine just for there to be another person who looks like you. This isn't plastic surgery. But I don't know. If you guys have watched the Whitmer Thomas special on HBO, I

really recommend it. It's super good. Uh. It's like a half stand up show, half documentary about his life involving reconciling with his aunt he's estranged from, who is his his dead mom's twin sister, and his dead mom and his aunt had a band together, a hair metal band in Florida called sin Twister, and there's footage of it in the show. But it's also just this moment where he's like, I have to go see my aunt, who also like looks just like my mom. It's got to

be so weird. I would never have even thought of something like that. It's a really good it's it's really good. It's not even just a stand up special. It's just like a really good thing, and I recommend it. Check it out because like weirdly, like being a twin, like being an identical twin, feels like a much more uncanny thing than you know, I mean, like celeb face, which we mentioned on last week's episode often has these things. Or it's just like, look at these people who basically

look the same. Now, like everybody's gotten this matching face, and like, what is having even having a sibling. I'm just gonna say, for all my only children co host, uh huh, it is weird to be like, oh, here's a different blend of my parents faces. Yeah you know. Um. But also, people thought my brother and I were twins a lot when we were kids because we both stingers. Yeah, you just have like the exact same coloring as each other.

Like my kids too, they have the exact same color hair and like the same complexion, and they I mean, you can tell that they're related. They don't look like twins. Um, But I always wonder what it would be like to have like a sibling who looked a lot like me. I would hate it, hate it. There can only be one. Yeah, it's it's it's a nerving But I do think if I was going to get work done, I would want to get it done with my twin in this very hypothetical,

this double hYP hypothetical situation. What are your guys feelings about the Olsen twins. I mean, I know that they obviously have gotten stuff done, like work done, if you're talking about the works side of it. But like, I don't think that they've gone to the weird place with it yet, Like they still basically look recognizable to me. I I respect their privacy. That's that's what I'll saying. They can do whatever they want. I kind of respect

that they've opted out of being like tabloid people. Well, I feel like it must also be so weird to be so famous in a brand that your face is literally on products, you know, as a child, right, Yeah, And I could see also just as a psychological device wanting to distance yourself from the way you looked as an eight year old, especially if you're a person who

just looks like you always look like you do. However, Ever, since somebody pointed out that they probably allegedly allegedly could have had bookle fat removal, which is the thing I just learned about, which is where they like suck fat out of your cheeks to give you, give you a cheekbone, give you like a high fashion cheekbone. You don't think that's just like a diet and smoking ten thousand cigarettes? Smoking face, Yeah, it's smoking face more than anything else.

I think the boocle fat removal is like very popular among Asian people because like Asian people tend to have a round your face and tend to have more They're speaking for myself and so, but like speaking for the whole round face crew, you're on the pot. Don't you think that that's like a good thing to have a round e face makes you look younger? Yes? Yeah, um yeah, I think it's again like totally depends on what you're

going for. But I do think in their cases, they're like there's such obvious chain smokers, and like, I mean that's the one documented thing you can say for sure. And I think that that kind of sunk in cheekbone look as like both being skinny and and the smoking thing, I think that really contributes. But I kind of love them for not giving a ship about like what anyone

thinks of them anymore. I love that. I love that they smoke millions of cigarettes and like clear glower at anyone who's, like, you know, taking a picture of them. I think they totally earned that, right. Yeah. I mean I both never had any affection for them as a brand because I feel like we were slightly too old to get like the Mary Kayton Ashley videos. You know, I knew them from a full house as one person

Michelle Tanner. But I think any child actors who like come out of the child acting conveyor belt and decide to never do anything again, that's fine with me. Yeah. Well, also, like it's such a choice for them to you know, continue to have careers that are semi public facing, but to really do it in an intentional way where it's like also, you know, like the row is so expensive, like nobody like it's not like Juicy couture or something where like influencers can afford it, our kids in the

suburbs can afford it. It's like so far removed from just like what the average person comes in contact with that it's sort of like opting out of being a household name in a way and really like setting yourself like. But it's also it made them a household name in Vogue, which was also a very weird move to me, but I understand it. I guess they're just like, we're rich people, let's have a fashion line. Well, if you're a Vogue fixture, I think you probably get treated better than if you're

like a People fixture or last Weekly fixture. I mean, it's all funked up and bad. But like I think, if if if I had to choose, if I was in their position, I would rather be the kind of first news like you know, just you know, coddled by

Vogue then whatever. I also think that if you're a Vogue kind of celebrity, you actually ironically get more privacy than if you're you know, because when you're like mid level, you have to there's like a symbiotic relationship, whereas when you ascend to the like fancy rich person level of celebrity, you can just shut everybody out. I interviewed hot jug

head uh, who's a twin. Cole Sprouse and Dylan Sprouse were like the boy Olsen twins, and they also did a smart kind of like like Cole Sprouse is a fashion photographer, you know, so he's totally on the Vogue thing. And then Dylan Sprouse started a metery in Brooklyn where he makes mead. Isn't They're like, don't you have to be like sixty years old at least to make meat. That's the whole thing is like I'm bringing he like dates a supermodel and it's like I'm I'm bringing back

the ancient art of mead means hilarious. Well, Um, speaking of choosing what kind of fancy are going to be, let's take a night email. Um. This night email comes to us from Patrick, who writes a comment Emily that's me made on this week's pod about quarantine being a great time to have plastic surgery procedures done. Reminded me of this story from a few weeks ago in the Houston Chronicle about how Houston's wealthy are handling social distancing.

Topics covered include expanded use of private jets, hiring newly available high profile chefs for private dinners with friends, and opting for plastic surgery. As the article says, social distancing is, after all, the perfect opportunity to recover inconspicuously. This article is disturbing for a lot of reasons, and I'm still surprised it didn't go viral so those of us fortunate

enough to stay at home could collectively mock it. It was originally published on March eighteen, so I imagine that part of the reason was that we didn't yet know how bad the situation was going to get, especially for the most vulnerable. I also think it doesn't help it. He's doesn't exactly have a ton of writer types with big national social media reaches with which to share something like this. Maybe y'all can start something retroactively. So this

is about the real Housewives of Houston. Yeah, allow me to say, we'll talk about Death Becomes Her later and Beverly Hills plastic surgery culture, but Man, Texas plastic surgery culture, that's scarious to me. So I have to say that

UM as not a fan of plastic surgery. Even despite this, I have had a lot of conversations with people who's um like parents and and older sisters and people who are a little bit older have traveled to the South specifically because they claim the plastic surgery looks better and more natural than Los Angeles plastic surgery and New York plastic surgery. Yes, and I don't know what it is.

I mean, first of all, just being in the South, you have more humidity, you know, I'm just like, you're just gonna look better, or if you live in a place like Houston. Um, but yeah, it's I think that they have like a slightly different aesthetic and maybe because we're so used to the l a plastic surgery phase or the New York plastic surgery phase. It's harder to identify right off the bat unless it's something that's so

that would have been so exaggerated anyway. I actually think if I had to say as a as A as a regular user of real self, I would say that New York has the most natural work on the whole. Really wants to go to New York right now. N I thought Korea was the the international capital of of like subtle plastic surgery. I would say that's the international capital, but let's talk about the national capitals. Right Growing up in New York, I saw a lot of really terrible

plastic surgery. But that was a long time ago, so that also could have been that. I don't know. I mean, I've seen so many places where it's like like in places in New York, where it's like you can opt for different like lips. For example, there's like the New York lip versus the l A lip, and the l A lip is the one that looks insane like the l A lip is the is the Simpsons lip, where it's a large upper lip. US might respect the l A lip for just you know, putting it out there.

But again, these are choices. These are choices. I wouldn't think I would. I mean, I I don't know. I watched a little bit of what they had a short lift Dallas Housewise, did they not? Oh it's still going. The one who was like the incredible villain just left because she was very racist on the last season and she like left to save her pride. The Dallas Housewives is incredible. They all get all the stuff done for sure. That's where I learned the phrase mommy makeover. Oh yeah, yeah,

I gotta know about a mommy makeover? Um, like what like your you get your hair done? Well. The one thing that kind of jumped out to me about this article, it was the private jet thing, because there was this story that came out recently about um, I believe it was Goldman's Sacks purchasing a private jet or multiple private jets like in the middle of this, like as recently as like a week or two ago, And that was

very and I was thinking, I was like, how how tacky. Obviously, like like somebody was going to find out about this, like the shamelessness with which you would do this, But I'm sure that somebody justified it to themselves like, oh no, this is how we're going to continue to be productive and do social distancing. We just have to like fly private, which is just so like like completely you know, at that point you're you're in another stratosphere of toxic wealth.

But um, yeah, I fully believe that some people are are like forcing people to stay on at their mansions, uh for domestic labor. But I also there's an Only Times article about people firing their whole staff, um, which was also obviously super fucked up. Well, the whole like staff of the chateau got fired. Yeah, and now all these things where people get fired and then they're like, here's a go fund me if you want to help.

It's like a person who fired them should not be pushing a go fund me now, it feels I mean, the thing that's kind of crazy to me is that like, if you're a wealthy person, especially living in Houston or somewhere in the middle of the country where you know there's generally more space than a more classically urban stuttying like in New York or something, uh like, you're good. You're good, Like you don't need you're a low risk I feel like, but but people taking all these extravagant

measures to to stay socially distance. I would say also, the Dallas Housewives are the most stufford wives of any of the real housewives. They are. It's different than the other franchises because, like in all the other franchises, it's like they want to be married, but they also want to have careers, And on Dallas, it's like a lot of their husbands don't want them to have careers, you know,

just openly. So they were much more Betty drapery. And in that sense, the sort of constant self care feels like this other kind of sad, like got to fill my days with just buffing myself to a sume because that's their job is to look look good for your husband. That's why it's surprising to me that that it's considered a better place to get work done, because in that way it feels more dated like that, yeah, well the whole thing feels Yeah, it also feels like eighties, like

a very eighties kind of wealth. This was This was described as like the aesthetic. I mean, I think I'm sure cost also comes into play. Um, even with travel, It's probably depending on what you have want to have done, like you can probably get a better deal. Um, but I think it's it's just you know, the idea of like a different aesthetic and something that's not as common

where you are. You can market it to people in those other cities by being like, oh, they're doing something different over there that you can't get here, or just like you know that they have like a lighter touch or something. Because it's true that like regionally, there are trends that you probably notice if you're like back when we used to be out and about as opposed to just looking at the grid of the screen. I remember

when the Brazilian butt lift first became a thing. That was the story was that it was like rich people flying to South America to get these procedures that are like state of the art, you know, just got invented. So I also think what you see in big cities is like the cumulative effect of many generations of plastic surgery. Yeah, the people that have the sort of most messed with faces. You can tell that. It's like because because it is like,

as we'll talk about on death becomes her becomes about maintenance. Yeah, you just broke my brain because I had now ever really thought about what it would feel like to sit on butt injections, And then I started trying to imagine it, and now I've lost my bones. I can't feel so cushion that never deflates. Do you think that your nerves? I mean, like can you even feel? Like? How do your nerves react to something like that? I wish I

never thought of it. I am the most you know, I, as we've said on this podcast, like I have a pretty okay attitude about the stuff, but the butt stuff really squeems me out, like I, yeah, why would it's why more than breast because you sit on it? You to me, it's the same thing like the idea you don't sit on your breasts, do you know? But but it's the same idea of like putting something on that then you're like you're training nerves sensation for about foods.

Don't don't don't bother me as much. And I guess maybe because it's more normalized even now, h but yeah, sitting on or but it's just I don't know, like that that feels very uncomfortable to me. Just imagine your butt falling asleep. Okay, okay, now I'm ready to get my left What if it felt like lumpy or strange,

like I think with with breast implants. I actually did for a while get hung up on the idea of like, can you not sleep on your stomach because you're like smushing, you know, just feel so uncomfortable definitely when you're healing, but then afterwards does it just feel bad? But then I was like, man, I sit all the time, I'm never not sitting. What if it was super uncomfortable? But I just like I didn't know, and then I cut

the surgery. Yeah, what if it made it more comfortable and it was like you were sitting in the luxurious do you think? I mean, I have considered that as somebody with very little going for me down there, like, great, let's open it up. If you know what it feels, if you've had butt implants or know someone who does, how does it feel it on implants? I'm so curious to four oh four six night night called podcast at gmail dot complex makes you as anonymous as you wish

to be. We're very curious, though. You can just email me directly and tell me, because I I now can't let go of this thought. But yeah, yeah, I don't think it's to me. It's the same as any other procedure. I feel like people single out the butt injections is going too far. But it's like, to me that makes the most sense, like who doesn't want to have like a big nice But you know it's not it's not

about like is it worth it or not. I for our newsletter this month, I wrote about empty nose syndrome, you know, which is when you have your when you you can either have it's like your terminates in your nose removed because you have horrible congestion, or you can have like a deviated septum fixed, and you just get this awful side effect, which is that it feels you're

you feel like you're suffocating. Or then on Reddit, on a message board of people who have this or somewhere like that, someone said, it just feels like rushing cold wind in there, like there's nothing in there, and I it freaked me out so much that it's so it's not really about like is the achieved result worth the procedure, But it's like what unforeseen side effects happened because of the procedure that make it so physically uncomfortable to live

with what you've done, even if from the outside it's you can't tell that there's any discomfort at all. I'm gonna say also nineties reality TV and recently, more recently vander Pump Rules. There's a lot of reality shows that involve plastic surgery where they do show you somebody and just like absolute hell during the recovery. I think the recovery for the butt lift is one of the long longest and gnarliest. Um, but facelift too, Oh my god, face lift where they take it off and put it

back on. I can't wait to talk about face off with you guys. I feel like I'm less afraid of having like a completely changed face to look at them, of like having all the time to think about it right and checking it up and checking as you heal, and like as you start to see what your face is going to look like. I mean, this is kind of what I had when I was a kid, and I was like, oh, is that just how it's going to settle? Like it's very weird. Um. Yeah, it's fun

to feel alienated from your physical apperiances. It's an adventure. So we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we'll be joined by Jamie Loftus and Caitlin Duranty as to talk about Death Becomes Her, So stick around, Hello, and welcome back to Night Call. We are joined right now by the co hosts of The Bechdel Cast, one of our favorite podcasts. Please welcome Jamie

Loftus and Caitlin Duranty. Thanks for having us privilege. We have attempted the most unwieldy covid era podcast by trying to get five people on a podcast over zoom at the same time. So everybody should be really proud of us, right, really heroic effort to heroes really like things are joining us today to talk about one of the all time classic plastic surgery movies. Robert smeass Death Becomes Her. Oh

a simpler time. Have you guys seen this before? Yes, we've actually covered it on a bonus Patreon episode of The Bechtel Cast. Yeah, so we've analyzed it from It's weird. I think we talked about like the elements of like plastic surgery body horror in this movie, but we didn't get super deep into it. I'm excited. Yeah, I mean, this is my first time seeing it. I still can't

believe that. Emily, Yeah, how did you avoid it. I don't know, you know, I think it came out in this funny time when I was like too young to see it, and I don't know, it was just not on my radar something to see when I was whatever seven years old, and then I don't know, it just skipped me. Like I associated this movie for a long time with Witches of Eastwick, but I saw Which Is of east Wick before I saw this, so I don't

I don't know, I don't know what to say. I've also been on kind of a Robert Zemecka's kick lately, like I find his filmography to be extremely watchable during the pandemic, at least the first half of it. I mean, his later movies get a little Sure, you don't you're not Marwin Head, Sorry, sorry, sorry, Marwin. I love Back to the Future that I think it's terrible. I'm in no big hurry to rewatch Back to the few Sure, it's still one of my favorite movies of all time.

I watched Back to the Future like once every two years. Especially it's really fun once you have kids to introduce them to Back to the Future, because it's also it's one of the like I don't know, with my son. I was like, oh, I have to wait a little, you know, until he's a little older to introduce this or this. But I'm like, back to the future. It's

appealing for everybody. Uh I love that movie favorite. Yeah, well this because this is interesting because it comes between Roger Rabbit and Forrest Gump, right, which is like I don't know how you connect those thoughts except that like death that comes to her just feels like a cartoon for adults. Like, Yeah, there's a lot of movies from around this era that I feel like kind of fit into that, Like there's this has anybody's seen this totally

like bananas insane film called um god, Nothing Trouble. Oh yeah, it's like that. It's like live action cartoons that are kind of like too risque for children. I'm shocked we didn't cover nothing but Trouble and terrifying eighties prosthetics. Yeah, what is nothing but Trouble? Oh my god. I just saw it for the first time, like a couple of

years ago, because my boyfriend really loves it. It's a dan ackroid movie about a bunch of like New York yuppies getting stranded in a weird industrial East Coast Town. They can't escape, but there's a lot of like terrifying makeup, dan ackroid playing a bunch of different characters and like nutty professor, makeup type, prosthetics, prosthetics um and digital underground or in it. Oh whoa, it's truly. It's truly a like like when I saw it, I was not only

like how did this get made? I was just like, how did I never? How did no one ever say you have to see this? It's so insane? Are young? Like I saw it at a slumber party or something, probably around when I came out, and I was totally baffled by it at the time. I would be interested to re watch. I was terrified of Death Becomes Her when I saw it originally, really yeah, because scared of it.

I found it so creepy. And I saw it with like a friend and whose dad took us to see it, because I feel like my parents probably would have been like, it's too scary for like a nine year old, you know, but I totally was freaked out by it. It was just so the prosthetics and makeup and such ele effects were just so creepy to me. This is like my

favorite era of like visual effects. I think, because it's like it doesn't look like good, but you can just tell they're doing so many different things, Like there are some you're like, oh, that's a computer, You're like, no, that's an animal trunk that's and I feel like maybe originally you weren't supposed to be able to tell, but now it's very like clear who didn't. I also think

that there was so much trial and error. It sounds like in the filming of it where they were like, okay, we can do that with an animatronic head, and then they look at it and they're just like, no, we have to go back and do c G. I. It sounds like it must have been a really interminably long shoot and really horribly frustrating. But I love the texture of like the neckbones popping out. I love that ship. It looks so good to me. I think I was also unsettled, as like a kid by like what this

movie appeared to say about women. You know, sure, I was like I'm nine, but it's like this what's in store for me as an adult? Like this is what all these movies when you're a kid kind of that's the question behind them, is like this is this what

being a grown up is like. Yeah, but I found out just reading about it yesterday that it was made basically at the same time that SACas was doing Tales from the Crypt, and it was sort of an idea that came out of Tales from the Crypt and was maybe originally going to just be a Tales from the Crypt episode. And that made it make a lot more sense to me because it totally feels like a fifties horror comic. Yes, And that also makes it like it doesn't matter that they're both just really vain and sort

of shallow people. It's like just a moral parable moral tale. Um. Should we go over what exactly becomes her is about? Just in case somebody like me as of a week ago hasn't seen it. So basically, there's Helen, who's played by Goldie Hawn and Madeleine what's her last name again? Made a who's Meryl Streep and they were childhood friends and kind of rivals. So um, Goldie Hawn. Helen is engaged I believe, to Bruce Willis, whose name in the movie is Ernest Menville Um, who is a plastic surgeon.

They're engaged and she he is going to meet Helen for the first time, I mean Madeline for the first time, and Helen starts twisting a napkin and she's like, he you know, she'll steal you. She steals everything from me, and then cut to Madaline and Ernest getting married and the beginning of like Goldie Hawns Total Downfall, where she's institutionalized, gains a million pounds and basically decides that she's going

to destroy Madeleine's life and Ernest as well. Then eventually you get to Isabella Rosselini as a person with a potion where if you take it then you are always the same age, but you have to take care of your body because you can basically become like a living corpse spoiler, which of course happens, and then they end up in a battle where they both die but are the living dead and also have to be spray painted with like, you know, formalde hyde paint which sticks to corpse,

which is very convenient because Ernest in a in a side part of the story which we don't don't see but feels like a whole movie and to itself, becomes an alcoholic who gets like like he loses his um license or whatever. To be a plastic surgeon, so he has to be a reconstructive mortician. He like an undertaker, but he's brilliant at spray painting corpses. Bruce Willis is, this is like the best Bruce Willis. It's a very lifetime when they just let him be a character actor.

He's so fun and he's so likable, even in this role. You're like, he seems great, Like he's such a hero in this movie. I could not disagree more. I find really, you know, I don't think he's great. I think he's so miscast, seem you know, it was almost Kevin Kline, Well, that would make a lot more sense. And also Jeff Bridges, I think auditioned and was turned to down, which I

was like, what this is all over the map. This feels like a degree to which Bruce Willis doesn't make sense because it does feel like a little bit like out of his lane. But I feel like that's why I feel like he's winking the whole time, being like, isn't this cool? I'm playing a guy who's not cool. Imagine me the coolest guy in the world. And also they listed some names that he had suggested for the movie. They were like the death Blues, and the other one

is like death is my Lady? Is my Lady? That's a good that's a good title. Though, well, death Becomes Her as a great title, even though I don't fully understand it. Well, it's like something that people like say it's like a very it feels like a very Adams Family typeline. Like it feels like a tea up for a joke in an Adam's Family movie. Is it a Robert of time or joke? Is it like I Am Become Death? It's like it's like if you're looking at a beautiful corpse and you're like, oh, death becomes her?

Like it it's like put that together. I was like, it is okay, so much. I don't think it's also I am become Death, destroyer of world her. Yeah, she becomes death. I think it works both ways. Jamie and Caitlin, are you generally fans of this movie or not so much? I like the movie a lot, but I don't think that for for the purposes of our podcast, affairs not

super well. Oh yeah, just because the whole thing is about two women fighting over nerdy Bruce Willis, and just like the idea they are presented as being so obsessed with like maintaining their youth, but like without exploring why that might be or the implications of that or anything, I just seem like it's their fault. Yeah. Yeah, I love the movie. I think it's very silly. It's a it's it gets a ten out of ten on my Rombo meter. It's lots of fun, big camp energy to

such a big camp energy, so camp. Even if it doesn't technically pass the back del test, it feels like it passes the like whatever happened to Baby Jane tests? I mean, yes, but it's also there their relationship I find deep enough to make up for the fact that as individuals there's not that much depth there. But I also I just I think it's such a funny movie, and I was surprised that when it came out it was like danged for not being like, I mean, at

least admit that it's very funny, right of course. Yeah, I think it's also just makes people uncomfortable to think about, which is a testament to what's good about it, but also what makes it freaky. Yeah. I mean I think that there is something about their friendship and though they're both horrible people. Like by the end when they're at his funeral and they're these two like Decayne people who can only hang out with each other. I mean it

becomes the vampire movie. Basically, it's just like we can only hang out with each other because we're the only people who have our life experience. Yeah, and we're not duck with each other. That's the fantasy, right that, like Betty and Veronica just outlive Archie to become empires together.

I did, I think when we were first covering it, I remember thinking, like, I wish that we knew why they dislike each other so much earlier in the movie, because I feel like you find out pretty far in in a way that I was like, I didn't get anything extra by having that information like withheld from me for like an hour. But like once you understand it, I feel like the relationship like takes off and and feels like it makes more sense. But it was just

for the first half of the movie. I'm like, wait, why, like why do they hate each other so much? Why will they not tell us? I think I think are just meant to understand it as a boilerplate like female

friendship as understood by men. Where they actually each other. Well, there's the thing it's like, is it's supposed to be a twist that there's actually a solid reason why they don't like each other, or just like I think Goldie Hans character says pretty early on that it's how you know, Madeline like takes everything from her, like steals all of

her boyfriends and everything. But then there's that monologue or I guess it's an exchange that's like in the last portion of the movie where you know, Meryl Streep like forces Goldie Han to admit that she always thought she was cheap or something like so you always thought I was cheap and I was like, okay, So I guess

there are more layers to that. But stealing someone's fiances, like that's that's reason enough to pretty big and and like it's and him or or Goldie Han taking Bruce Willis to see Madeline show is sort of like presented as a test, like it was a test, is like you can see her and not fall in love with her, then I know we're meant to be together. And he fails the tests, so it's like the Bechdel tests, but they does. Yeah, I truly, I truly hate the fat suit. Yeah,

that's the part of the movie. Yeah. Suits. But that to me, I think I just felt a little bit like this movie doesn't have that much respect for its characters, and you feel that it's the problem with a lot of camp. For me, uh, it's like good camp. You feel emotions about these people. It's like melodrama. This to me just feels a little bit too much, like yeah, like aren't women stupid? Yeah? Oh see, I think they're

compelling enough. I like the fact that you're expected to deal with like two very evil, competitive like witchy women and then they take it for granted like well they're in. You know, they'll hold your attention, just like to evil witchy men would hold your engine. And I do think there are moments like I mean, I think that that Goldie Hunt's character is like more sympathetic of the two

of them. But even when Meryl Streep is like before she goes to see Isabella and Celini, who is also incredible, so yeah, um, but when she's at the regular plastic surgeons and she's having her melt down because she can't get like another whatever treatment that she wants again, and you see that like even though she's the person who, like one that particular battle like it's it's still this just punishing kind of game she's set herself up in

where she has to continually beat herself at being young and beautiful and beautiful even though it's like against the laws of nature. I don't know that feels like even though she sucks, it's like you feel bad for somebody who's opted into that. Yeah, and it's good that they're both so blatantly unlikable. You know. I'm not saying I want them to be softened necessarily or have some moment where it's like, oh, they're real people. I would just

like more detail about their background and friendship. You want the serious. I definitely think it like works more for me, Like if I reframe it in my head as like a class commentary, then as like, sure, how women relate to like from a like from a feminist it's hard, it's hard to make an argument for it. But from a class standpoint, I feel like that's like an easier pill for me to swallow of like what the intent might have been, But I don't know. It's sort of

yadda yadda. How Goldie Han has the means to have her come up because it's supposed to be like exorbitantly expensive to do. Because Goldie Han's character became a best selling author and only after she thought motion right, I she said that she gave everything. Well, I think in the original I went like really too deep on trying

to find that. Yeah, in the original script, I think that they were both like semi I might be making up that they were semi both semi wealthy, but they met at Radcliffe as opposed to being childhood friends, so I assumed they had like family money and then um, Goldie Hawn spent it all adjust for inflation because Goldie Hawn got it much earlier, of course than Meryl Streep and so it was less. But she gave up everything.

Then that gave her the juice to, like, you know, basically try and earn it all back by exploiting the fact that she looks great in writing books about it. Yeah.

I mean, I justify everything in this movie. But the funniest thing about this movie is how much of the transformation between when they're like old and ugly and like young and beautiful again, it's just makeup and wardrobe, right, Well, aren't they just going to like present day Goldie Hawn and Meryl Street because like they're supposed to be older, and I think, so, right, that's it. It looked like

that was how they looked then, right. And I also feel like Meryl Streep always looks the same, so who knows. Like she's apparently forty three when she made this, I think Goldie Hawn was about fifty. She was Goldie on with. It's funny because I watched Shampoo last night and like accidentally kind of had a Goldie hank back to back like and it was very enlightening. She's but yeah, she's the best. She's so I think this is the most

like quintessential plastic surgery movie. Though. I was so happy that we were watching it because I was like, you know, i'd also I watched Face Off, which we're going to tackle at some point too, and those are the two that I always think of for plastic surgery. Um, but this one, like the entire movie, is just such a great way of summing up, like, you know, the real horror of like taking off your face and pulling it

putting it back on. I mean, I think it just really maybe that's why I love it so much, is because I'm so uncomfortable with the idea of plastic surgery that I feel like this is the movie for that. That makes it as horrifying as all. Yeah, yeah, I mean, And it's like so clear in the movie that like they're not doing it for themselves necessarily, like it's for both of them. It's a survival move rather than like this is how I want my body to look, just

because yeah, it's like a socio economic strategy. Yeah, Madaline, it's like part of her career. Like you see the opening scene of like people walking out of the theater of like whatever stage production she's doing, and people like, oh, she's so old, what a ancient which I'm looking at on stage and it's like, what are you talking about?

She's like in her forties. But I think like one of the big conversations that we had had about it on the episode we did was and we already kind of touched on this, but um, it's a movie like written and directed by men, and it's like just their idea of like, well, women are always competing against each other and women are obsessed with being young or like maintaining youthful looks. We have no idea why that might be,

but let's make a movie about it. And it's like, well, it's because you, as men have voisted this unrealistic standard of beauty on women that like if we don't try to maintain then we're like ostracized and ridiculed and all

this stuff. But like men never seemed to because there's so many there's quite a few movies about this, and like men, the male filmmakers who are usually making these movies like never think to look a little further beyond, like why might women be so obsessed with like trying like getting plastic surgery, wearing makeup, spending so much time on like getting ready and looking good. And it's like, well, it's because of you and your standards. Will take a

quick break and be right back. I do think that there's something somewhat I won't say that it makes up for that, because that's something that you know, you just

can't get away from in the film. But I think that the fact that Bruce willis, and especially the fact that it's Bruce willis and it is like just such a puts and so undesirable, and so it has nothing to do with like trying to get somebody hot, like It's like there's that's like feels very intentional, that there's this huge injustice that he doesn't have to keep himself up at all. He just looks horrible and like is

just becoming a miserable alcoholic. And meanwhile the two women in his life are just like literally killing themselves to stay you know, I don't know viable as as romantic interests, and that I feel like the absurdity of that is very large in it. It could be a really good

remake of this about influencers totally. Yeah. Um, I would love to see the like build a body trend taken on in a similar horror core fashion with animatronics still oh, totally all practical effects, um, but but digital uh touching up? Yeah yeah? Um. Do you guys so we're doing this is in the middle of our plastic surgery month? Uh? Do you guys have any particular um thoughts or feelings about the plastic surgery industrial complex related to this film

or otherwise or or perhaps inspired by this film? Oh? Man, ye sure? Um. I suppose I have a complicated and ever evolving stance on plastic surgery. I've not had any done myself. I don't know that I ever would consider it. Um, but I also, um, you know, uh, I am thirty three, and maybe when I'm like twenty years from now, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna want a tightening or something. I don't know. Who knows. Um, we'll all be dead in thirty years,

so who cares. You can save the money. So and and for the longest time, I was like, no, plastic surgery is horrible. You should just accept the way you were born. And like, but now I'm like, well, whatever, it's your body, your choice, Like if you want to like have a procedure and you're like responsible about like spending your money, and if like I don't know, it's like, do whatever you want to do. It's your body. I grew up like I grew up very pro plastic surgery,

even though no my family could afford it. But like we were all like I don't know, but yeah, I have a weird relationship with it as well. I'm like I I anyone should do whatever they want to do with their body. Um. But then it's but then, like the reason my mom always wanted plastic surgery was for like very like reasons connected to her own insecurities and was like very forthcoming about that, So I feel weird.

I mean, it's like I also would probably do it if I've felt so like, if I had the resources and felt like this is something that like would make me feel a certain way and I and I can get past the body horror element, which I'm not sure if I could. But yeah, I don't know. My mom used to like, I don't know why we were so pro, but like she she would always like say that like famous Share quote to us when we were like preteens and about like your boobs on your back, like that

quote quote. Oh, it's this famous share quote that she said. Where I think it was when people were giving her like like peak people giving Share shit about her plastic surgeries, and she just like yelled at a reporter that she can put her boobs on her back if she wants and no one can give her shit about it. And I guess that really resonated with my mom because it was a quote over and over and over when I

was a kid. And so I don't know, Yeah, I am, like I think I'm generally pro, but I also like every time I feel like, oh, if I look, I try to at least interrogate what about it is making me feel that way. But in the end, I don't know, I'm pro I think, yeah, I don't know what I would do if I had been brought up with somebody who was at all pro it, because I was not.

So I think like all of the attitudes I have about it are kind of like evolved out of that in rebellion or otherwise, um or just shaded by that. But um, but I I mean, I have plenty of friends who like, especially people who grew up around here too, where it's just like much more normalized. Um. And yeah, it's just it's I think that has a lot to do with it, like kind of also the culture in

what you're growing up to. Um. I saw the quote by the way on my back not I guess my mom edited the quote for it is if I want to put my tits on my back, it's nobody's business but my own. Yeah, yeah, I remember that very That's funny that my mom edited it. That's the part that children.

I don't know. Yeah, I think like we it was like an aspirational like the idea of being able to get plastic surgery was like an aspirational concept in our household, and so stuff like that was very inspiring to the

group I see. I think that I think the Dollague quote is always the one that resonates with me, where it's like it costs a lot of money to look this cheap like because then it kind of divorces it, or it's like a rejection of the idea that it is like a status symbol or like an economic status symbol, that it's just sort of like an expression of personal expression.

She was always saying though that she wanted to look like the like the prostitutes in your town, who she thought like the most beautiful women in the world, which is like, I don't know, it's just like cool, bring your own values to it, like whatever. It doesn't need to be about one particular ideal that you're trying to replicate. Um, that's sort of the wiggle room I find with that.

I don't know, I just always think about There were these MTV True life episodes about people getting plastic surgery, and they were about just like regular people who had like saved up their whole life to get some plastic surgery and then they would get it and they would like still not be happy with themselves. That was always the message was like there was the caffeine plant sky that they then used on an Entourage plotline, but it was like once he got caffeine plants, then he was like,

now I want to get pack im plants. It's just like it sort of starts a chain. It feels like like, well, if I did this one thing, what else can I do? And you see, especially with rich people, that there's like a slippery slope of like just doing everything on the table because you're being given access to it, which is what I think death becomes her. It's also good about It's like, get if you start going down this road, it is a commitment and you can't just like undo it.

You have to put in maintenance. It's yeah, you've opted into a lifestyle and a certain kind of like yeah, personal maintenance thing. And I feel like, you know, I think it's shorthand in the film, but like the fact that it takes place in Beverly Hills is just sort of a way to say, like, yes, like everybody around them is doing this. This is just sort of the way it is. One of my favorite things about the fact that it's like they're underlining so much the Beverly Hills.

Nous of it is the hospital is like the hospital of Beverly Hills. That's what I wanted to do for our where we were. This episode's hospital and it's like like the Beverly Hills Hotel. It has this signature. The

signature wallpaper is the hospital curtains. And I only know that signature wallpaper because I am friendly with a real estate agent who posted a listing the other day and I was like, that looks fancy and I clicked it and I saw that it had like this, you know, kind of banana leaf wallpaper, and I was like, who has that wallpaper that I know? And then I was like, no, it's no one. You know. It's pictures of the Beverly Hills Hotel. The pink Hotel signature. It has like a name,

but I forget what the name is. That kind of wallpaper. Um, and then there's like pink trim around the doors of the hospital and it's like a pink hospital. It's it's like a Barbie hospital. It's great to that. They also they seemed to be a different points dressing, like just because I was going into it with like a Robert Samaka's mindset. He seemed to be like dressing Goldie Han up like exactly like Jessica Rabbit at one point like this,

are you referencing yourself? Like well, he does reference and stuff in a different moment. And here's what it is. So um, Goldie Han says the exact date that she took the potion and it's October and if you know, back to the future, the temporal junction point of the space time continuum. That's a fun man. I like that he's building a secret extended universe for nobody. I love that. I love that this movie is very cartoony. It's very also like a tex Savery cartoon the way that Jessica

Rabbit is. For sure, that is the best thing about it. And I watched this back to back with Birds of Prey, which I know you guys are gonna talk about. Also, just like I love just people getting bopped on the head sometimes just stair falls where there's like ten seconds of somebody just like waving their arms and so many stairs. So good. Yeah, the prat falls are great. I mean that's the thing too. It's like, how many movies are there that are just like a comedy starring two women

just doing a lot of physical comedy. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that the silliness of it is sort of it's it's like saving grace because it's you know, you can you can dig it however you want, for um, not maybe being as it's perspective being a little stunted as far as you know, women's relationships with each other,

women's relationships to beauty. But it's also just like such a farce that and that's kind of and the and the degree to which is a farce is like so I think, especially for the time, like technically well done that yeah yeah, and it really does feel like it takes place in the same universe as Tales from the Crypt. Yeah,

for sure. I love there's also the point to be made that when the women fall down the stairs, they fall and they hit every single stare and break their bodies into like these broken you know, Marionette things at

the bottom. But then when Bruce Willis throws himself he tries to kind of throw himself down the stairs of this like you know, I don't know actually if it's great if it was shot at Graystone or where this was, Yeah, okay, he throws himself off intending to kill himself, and instead he falls like through a ceiling and into a pool and survives, and it's you know, it's like the whole thing is he's yeah, like I only said, he's just

a putts. He's like they make fun of him constantly as being just a loser, and he's being fought over by like two much more interesting women who then like they fall down the stairs and they get like totally destroyed. But he he tries to throw himself down the stairs, nothing happens to him. He's like invincible. Yeah. Do you think a lot of people when they saw this movie for the first time came out of it like shipping

Goldie and Meryl's characters. S Well, it's like a big like LGBT classic GE's like a huge like drag queen and there's so many good drag interpretations of Yeah. The genre that, uh, whatever happened to Baby Jane is that Tess and I just both always are obsessed with. It's called psycho Biddie. I love that. It's the best. It's movies about it's like horror movies about the societal like fear of older women. And there's a bunch of them from the seventies, made by the person who made Whatever

Happened to Baby Jane. A lot of them are called like who slew aunt ru Um? What's that one? The Helen one? Oh, what's the matter with Hell? What's the matter with Helen? With Helen is thrown questions to check out what's the matter with Helen? It involves Shelly Winters and a tap dance school for children. It's to death becomes Her because her name is also Helen. That's true. They but it's just you know, like I love that genre because it is like, oh, these these characters are

actually like the most interesting people in the world. I mean in a way. That's also what I enjoy about The Real Housewives, Yeah, which is like and it's like, at the end of the day, even though they're terrible and these are like and and the same with Housewives, it's like this sort of kind of terrible representation of women that's put out by men. Uh, it's still like their rage at the end of the day and they're like kind of bitterness and anger towards the world feels

very earned. Because yeah, and then the Real Housewives of New York especially, it's like a lot of them were married when the show started out, but now they're all single and they all hate being single, but they're all stuck with each other in that way where they're like, Okay, we're a bunch of we're like five single women in our sixties out and then when they meet a man,

they all just like trash each other over him. I will say that my biggest actual complaint with the movie as far as like what it's saying or whatever, it's just that Earnest Bruce Willis's character is the only person of the main characters that we know to like resist the lure of the potion, which is just like I don't feel like he would. I feel like he's such a like why is he the person to be Like, No, I want to have a great life and and die naturally,

and you know, I don't care about being young forever. Like, So it really puts it on the women for having these expectations for what they're supposed to, you know, what their life is supposed to look like. But at the same time, like they found the potion of their own volition, but he they like hit him on the head and dragged him into the place to try and give him the potion. They just want to keep him around as

they're like forever undertakers. Think as a cosmetologist, Oh, this is my the question about the kind of the way that everything works with the potion is it. Are they only having their problems because they did kind of die? Yeah, and then they So you notice when Goldie hawnt Is is shot in the stomach that she goes into the into the fountain and there's blood everywhere. And I think the same thing with Madaline when he's like trying to fix up Madeleine, there's a big bucket of something that's

supposed to be her blood. And I guess the deal is is that your body is like kind of preserved as if alive, Like you're basically alive, but if you die, then your blood drains out, and like the injuries that you sustain can't really heal. So they were only really dead after they after they got shot. Yeah, because yeah, Isabella Rossellini's character seeing she's like, I'm seventy years old and she looks very youthful, And I guess the idea is that she hasn't died, right, nor Maryland or Elvis

or all the people. That's why she said take good care of your body. You'll have ba don't die. Apparently in one draft she was going to be Cleopatra, which is why there's residual ancient Egyptian stuff. That's great. But of course, who wouldn't throw Bruce willis the wish they could go live with Isabella Rossellini forever. Yeah, she seems to have the best life of anybody. She has Fabio as her bodyguard, she has Dick and Harry or her

body Well. There's some interesting naming conventions I suppose in this movie because it's Helen and Madeleine, but they nickname each other hell and mad Okay, got it. It's because if you put them all together. I read this in the IMDb trivia it's Madder and Hell madder than how mad Hell Interesting. I told you guys. I was like, I love this movie. I'm going to read everything I could. This is I feel like that whole genre of like anything that has like a fear of like something going

on with a one's body in it. In any way, it's like all really like reclaimable stuff is like the good thing well, and I think, well the matter and hew thing also just feels like it backs up my idea that this is about feeball rage more than anything else, like and that it's it's it's it comes through in the form of these um drastic cosmetic procedures and or potions. But it's also just about how like fundamentally furious these

women are with you know, what the world is for them? Um, I don't know, which is like kind of why it's fun? I like that radio Yeah, you guys like double I have not scene what that's the other like Meryl Streep versus Roseanne uh? And Meryl Street plays another ridiculous woman in it very well. She plays like a famous romance novelist and she ruins Roseanne's life and then Roseanne comes to get revenge. Hell yeah, wait when did that come out?

Late eighties or early nineties? I think it was like Roseanne's first and probably only movie, but they used to show it on Comedy Central. It was always on Comedy Central.

Apparently Death Becomes Her had an ending, a theatrical ending that they didn't like in the screenings and changed where Bruce ends up with Tracy Ullman and they run over Madeleine and Goldie Hawn with a car and like have a happy ending and everybody hated it, so they were like, okay, we have Yeah, I like them outliving him, even if it's to be misera bowl and to fall down some stairs, Like ending is the best part. It's like a true tale of friendship. And it's like it's a little bit

like ab fab absolutely those huge fab vibes. Um. It's like kind of it's it's like ready made to be captured, like you screen grab it and send it to your best friend and be like us in fifty years, you know. Yeah, we have been talking a lot about which rich people are rich enough to keep getting injections right now versus everybody else who is going to just deflate in this time period. Are they just doing like home calls? Like I wonder what the system is? Wow, Madonna has somebody

on staff pictured in a video. Uh, And I imagine the Kardashians probably have some doctor who's like changed under the stairs Harry Potter styles trapped in their smith. But you have to imagine there's a lot of like B tier influencers who are just going to have to let

people see what their real lips look like. Now, then everybody's gonna everybody has to like bank all their photos in the first month of quarantine and then let them out for the next several months, or maybe all the influencers will have to pivot and then be like, actually, I'm body positive now, Like they'll have to be like because I want to, not because it's happening to me. LAK's daughter took her lip injections out and did that recently.

She was like, I'm gonna like going back to the real meat, um, and then she immediately put them back. Did they dissolve You don't like take them out, I'm revealing my ignorance. You dissolve them? Right? So water you basically adjected there with water. I just pictured someone like peeling open their lips and being like plumped and taking out of the game plants and yeah, that's why I can't deal with plastic searchain. That's all it is. Sorry, I want to just fact check myself. It's not water,

you're it turns to water. There's a there's some kind of solvent that you inject into the injection and it turns it into water. It's just reabsorbed by your body. Yeah, weird. It's so um too much about these things. It's your body. Your body is cleansing itself. Yes, your body is cleansing it durn well. Thank you so much for coming by you guys, and for talking about movie with us. This was so fun. Where can jinks personal jank a coke?

Where can everybody find you? Guys? On the internet? You can find us at back del Cast on all the platforms. Are new episodes dropt Thursdays and I'm on Twitter at Jamie left his Help. You have a Patreon as well, guys, right we do, Yes, we do. That's where our death becomes our episode. Is anyone is interested in checking that out? It's just a cheap five bucks a month, you know, a steal um. It's up to bargain um and then um. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Caitlin Darante. Yeah.

We love beck del Cast. Great podcasts, unessential listen. Thank you so much for listening to Nightcall. Uh. We will be back next week with another episode. In the meantime, you can follow us on social media at Nightcall Pod on Twitter, Nightcall Podcast on Facebook and Instagram. You can subscribe to us on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Leave us a rating and review. We would really appreciate it, and if you want to support the podcast, we are at patreon dot com slash Nightcall, where you can subscribe and get bonus episodes. Our newsletter merch a whole bunch of fun stuff, so check that out. We'll be back next week, and UH Plastic Surgery April continues a pace