105: The Great Deflation

To quote the Governor of Florida or the mayor of Miami, I can't remember which. Um. We are going into our new theme month about plastic surgery, but not just plastic surge dree cosmetic procedures of all kinds and and physical rebirth of all kinds, physical reinvention. Maybe that's like a

good way to think about it. I am. We plan this obviously long ago, before our pandemic days, but I still think we're pretty psyched to delve into the world of cosmetic procedures for the month of April, because April is all about rebirth when you think about it. Springtime, Yeah, baby, chickens hatching um New faces hatching, New Faces hatching story. I know I've been saying that it's a great time for the birds to take over, that the birds should

do the birds right now. I read that birds are actually having to sing less loud now because they're not having to like scream over human beings as much anymore. What yeah you heard me? Are they whispering? No? But normally they have to out over traffic and over humans, and now they can just sort of sing in a more natural tone. They don't have to yell over us.

I love that for them too. She also wrote a story about how birds speech is just like human speech, how it like baby birds babble in the same way that human babies do and then learn all the calls and stuff. That's very cute. Um, well, I think we all feel kind of like baby birds right now, like kind of you know, not used to outside and blinking and covered and fluid. Um, And we can't go anywhere, we can't fly. Yeah, we'll fall out of our apartments if we try to leave, to stay at home and

feed each other worms. Yeah. Um so. Plastic surgery April, Cosmetic procedure April. However, you want to call it. It's obviously it's a little bit difficult right now to um partake of any of these procedures. Although I did have the thought as as soon as this all started to really become real here, Um, that it would be an incredible time to to do your your recovery from a

any kind of major surgical procedure. It would have would have would have been a great time to to get your nose done, if that's what you wanted, because nobody will remember what you used to look like by the time everyone gets out. Kylie, who I'm sure we'll come

up during this month a lot. She said that her social media absence, where she was off social media the whole time she was pregnant, it was like helped her to prepare for the coronavirus lockdown, being like that's the only way she could envision not being on social media limited activity. She hid in her house all the time so that there wouldn't be any photos of her pregnant the whole time. That's so deranged. It's I've said this before, but I would like there to be a Sofia Coppola

movie about this. Kylie just wandering the grounds, Um, that's kind of what the New Drake videos like. He's just wandering the winter palace. If only we all had winter palaces to wander. Um. Well, um, one person got in there their injections right before the ship really hit the fan. Um. I think it's pretty well known now about Kelly rippas

um last minute coronavirus botox session that she got. I think on Friday the thirteenth, which I think of is kind of well I think of I now think of like the eleventh as being the first, as like as being like day one, because I did Tom Hanks get it. That's the tom That's the Tom Hanks day. That's the NBA day. We've discussed this on here. That's the day. I think. So this was like two days after that, still early in all this, but still like like I I will be, I'm gonna have a lot of radical

transparency this month. Um. But but just for starters, I did have a microderm uh scheduled for Friday, and I canceled it because I had a haircut and a facial on the same day and I decided to get the haircut. Um. It was a Sophie's choice of vanity, and I think I made the right choice. Um, not that any of it matters. That's what's funny about it. It's like so so that people can stay groomed, like while they're posting from quarantine. That's it. That's the only reason. And stay

tune for so many things too. Martha Stewart posted like an ode to all of her beauty team today being like, I missed getting my nails done, I missed getting my hair done, like I miss like going to my dermatologist and just sort of being like, don't don't try to do this and don't try to do it yourself, just basically what she said, we'll try. You tried to do it yourself. Yeah, I don't care. I mean, that's this is my thing, is that I I really don't care what I look like at all at this point in

my life. I'm sure I'll change back. Um. I go through phases. But yeah, I cut my bangs. No, first I cut split ends. I was outside, which was when I was talking about my about this with my mom. She was like, but where was the mirror And I was like, no, there was no mirror. It was nature nature. Um. And then I did my bangs and I didn't like how I did my bangs. But I'm living with that. And then I was like, what if I just cut like an inch off my hair? How hard could it

be to make that look great? And it turns out like a little harder than I can handle the answer now it just flips out at the bottom. You're not the only person I know who's cut bangs. Lain Con always cut my own bangs. I I didn't cut them from scratch. That's great, Well, Laine Con gave herself bangs are gastolene um. I just think a lot of people you get the cabin fever and then you want to

take it out on yourself in some way. Well, you want to change something, and I think that getting bangs is one of the easiest ways to make a big change. And you're like a breakup haircut because it's like a traumatic, traumatic incident, so people are like trying to reassert control. It's more just that you know that no one will see,

so it doesn't really matter. Like the worst thing about when you cut your own bangs and you screw them up and then you realize the next day that you have to like go to work or go to coffee and like see people and they're going to know exactly what you did, but you don't want to talk about it, and neither today. But it's like we can all acknowledge like it doesn't look good. We could lean into that more too. My boyfriend did a Joe exotic mustache, UM,

and I love it. You love it? Yeah. My question was, how do you feel about that? I'm so into it. I'm like mustaches. Um. But also he was like trying to get me to give him a Travis Pickle haircut as a fun joke, and I was like, I'll do it, I'll do it. And then like two hours later he's like, are we doing it? And I was like, I don't.

I don't think I can do it right now? Too late. Um. Yeah, I mean I think that everybody, like I think that it's a very natural thing to want to change your appearance when like when out of boredom or out of like a seeming lack of control over anything else. You know. I feel like it's a total trope for like the cutting the hair out of out of angst in a movie like um, girl shaves her head or whatever. Um if this very um, it's like a troope at this point. Um, yeah,

but we can't. Like I I just imagine, like, I mean, people are getting like at least at least injections, Like people are probably getting house calls for that. Don't you think ends on? Do you have to be super super wealthy to get that? Right now, I imagine the Kardashians have somebody on the team. Well, you were saying you thought that that Kim was like losing her losing her face or something, and well, I think her face always looks weird in motion because it's like so many different

faces layered on top of each other. It's just you know, like all the Kardashian surgery faces, it's like it's made for still photographs and whenever you see it in motion, it's like very uncanny. Yeah, well there's also the face that's made for photographs also just doesn't look great in real life even still. You know, like there's something that you can see what's been done. You can see which

parts move in which parts don't. So it's really distracting when you're talking with someone who's had a ton of work done because it just jumps out at you, but in photos it doesn't. Yeah. Now, I've had a few occasions where I've like gotten lunch and Beverly Hills after a meeting or something like that. And then you see like one of the real extreme jobs come in and

it's somebody like in a picture. If I saw it, like if that person was like a minor celebrity or something, I saw him in a in like US Weekly or whatever, I wouldn't think anything of their face. But in person, I'm just like, WHOA, that's not how a human normally looks. It's very yeah, it's very much made for photographs. It's very much not made for for face to face. Isn't that strange? Wouldn't you rather look good in life than

in a picture? I guess it depends on how like like the ratio of of your interactions, Like if you're somebody who people who the vast majority of people in the world interact with via photographs or Instagram or something like that, then then maybe you you do you run the calculation, and it's worth it to look a natural in person if you look ideal over these different channels, Like I don't know, I mean, I think you know, there was a moment where we crossed a threshold into

like very young people getting plastic surgery, which I had always existed in some form, but you know, the joke of it was Kylie, right, Like I was reading this Klie, but like you know, like Marilyn Monroe got a no shop when she was young, like people get no shops when they're younger, but this was more like people doing

stuff that's like traditionally was like anti aging stuff. Associate. Yeah, talks like remember when lip injections were like the joke from First Wives Club or it was just an Angelina Jolie thing or something like that was like even though I don't think she even has them by people, she doesn't have them, but it was like everybody was her

mouth or something. Well, the Kylie thing also was obviously part of like the Kardashians general thing of like appropriating uh black pete and white washing it and I get the butt in the lips and then yeah, you're good to go. It's yeah, I mean the Kylie stuff. I will say, we can kind of go around and maybe get into our general added it's going into all of this. I tend to be pretty agnostic about all of it and kind of like do what thou will about plastic surgery.

But I do find the stuff with like really young people. And I do find like Kylie to be pretty depressing, just because I don't know, Like I it's such a it's not even like uh an enhancement of something that exists already. It's like getting a whole new It's like getting a shirt, but like a shirt you have to wear all the time, or something like a completely like

like it. It has nothing to do with what she looks like, right, but it's it's like, I just feel like she's in such a weird specific greenhouse for this to happen, which is just like her mom is essentially like running a cult of which she is one of the cult members. And I was really hopeful she would be the one who would break away and be like more like Courtney, but just even more like I don't

want any part of this, you know. But obviously because everybody called her the ugly one, that was the whole thing. She was like the ugly one, especially compared to Kendall, where everybody was like Kendall's a model. Just reminded me of that y a book Jacob have I loved. You know, it's like your sister's perfect and you suck and in the Kardashian economy of attention that means like, we hate

you because you get the least attention. And then she got the lip injections and completely changed everything about herself and became the most popular one by sort of like beating him at her own game and being like, I'm like you, but younger. Yeah, And there's something like and she's totally rewarded for it too. It's like nobody, I mean obviously people are like like, oh, it's so obviously what she's gotten done, but like she's still the most popular person, and like I can't get a handle on

even what the appeal is of her. Really, I don't think anyone it's like, Okay, so like any woman has had the experience of like being treated better when you're wearing makeup, you know. I think it's like that on like a grand scale. It's like people are going to treat you better if you're hot because they think that the aura of hotness and success will rub off on

them in some way. Um Like, I feel like there have just been times in my life when there was like some kind of inflated attention for something that had nothing to do with me, where you're aware that it's not really about you. But if you change something physically about yourself forever and then you're also like, but it's not really mine, that just seems like a mind fuck. Yeah,

I think that. I think about that, especially with like housewives and stuff, like at a certain point, like do you even still like how like I'm talking about real housewives, Like at what point do you just not recognize yourself in the mirror and then like like you're having a split of personality based on this other, like this different looking person that you've created. I don't know, this is all very interesting. I think there's people who get plastic

sur tree with like a specific outcome in mind. You know, they're like, my face doesn't look the way I imagine it looking, and then they like do something and it does. Maybe. But I also think there's a type of person who's especially abetted by social media, who gets addicted to plastic surgery and just getting whatever the new thing is because they're always introducing new procedures that you can get um And I think those people will never be happy because

it'll just never be enough. It's like you're always going to still feel bad about yourself because you're not like fixing the real problem, which is low self esteem. Yeah. Um, well, we're going to take a break real quick. When we come back, we're going to do a brief chicken on pandemic times and then more plastic surgery. Welcome back to

night Call. Um, So, our listener Brian Early, who's a public health physician who was on the show a couple of weeks ago, gave us a nightcall just to sort of fill in some of the questions we had last week about what we are allowed to do right now. Um, so we're going to just play that and uh and discuss. Hi, guys, this is Dr Brian Early in Denver. I'm calling in

to respond to your coronavirus questions from last week. First off, Molly's right, the delivery drivers, grocery store workers, and sanitation folks are on the front lines of the coronavirus response. They're the ones making it possible for us to practice social distancing and frankly, by the time people are showing up at the hospital feeling sick, the horses out of

the barn. As far as take out, restaurant workers generally have much better food handling practices than people cooking in their home so take out is likely very safe, and while the rest of getting coronavirus from packaging or other surfaces is in zero. To cause his zse, the virus is hanging out in the cardboard, would have to survive shipping and temperature swing, get transferred to your hand, and then make it up into your eyes or the interior

of your nose. That's a long hazardous trip for a virus, and much less likely than droplets from sneeze or cough and make it into your airway. Instacrat workers and other delivery drivers are probably much higher risk from coronavirus and people able to remain at home, But from a population perspective, it may actually be better to expose this small number of people who can only get sick once each than

having every person go to the story individually. In the same way, many clinics will choose a small number of people to do all their coronavirus testing. Um all these high risk workers have a right to a fair wage, though and appropriate protection in their workplace. Finally, I want to emphasize the importance of doing things that support mental health,

including finding ways to go outside. In fact, air currents and UV radiation from the sun probably make interactions outdoors safer than indoors, especially when keeping a good distance between people and not sharing objects. Thank you, guys, Let's stay safe out there. So I feel like we have permission to go for a walk. I'm gonna say this is my question, which is not exactly answered. So this is

like more questions for either a doctor earlier whomever. Now that we're all supposed to be wearing masks, not medical, great mass, but cloth masks. Should we wear those on walks? Because I really don't want to, and so I'm looking for justification to not. But at the same time, I mean people say that when um, other people are exercising, if you encounter a runner or something, you're supposed to give an extra four feet for a total of ten ft between you. Uh and but so obviously I guess

it would be safer to wear a mask. But I'm finding the mask so uncomfortable, you guys. I mean, I'm wearing them as much and whenever I go into a store, which is very infrequently, I wear them. But they're so uncomfortable. Uh So, yeah, my understanding is that you kind of you have to wear them if you're outside of your own environment. Basically even walking I think so. I mean, I also see so many people walking my I tweeted about this, but my street has basically turned into like

running into which is really annoying. Sorry, So there's so many people out and and and I've watched the trends in in a social distancing and and protective gear change, and now pretty much everybody is wearing masks out there. And I don't think it's a bad idea, especially because sometimes you are on a narrower street and like if a runner goes by, you definitely have the breeze of

that person. It's so stressful there. I think it's a better safe than sorry situation, and that you know, we probably should have been normalizing wearing the masks for weeks already, and that we're just getting on it now sort of par for the course of how fucked up the whole thing has been. But I think the science is not People just don't know. Fully. I read something scary yesterday. It was like, oh, also, maybe it's transmitted by breathing and talking. I mean, it seems clear that it is

because of the choir. The choir thing is I mean, I feel bad for all those people there but I would say, even without having read a single article about this, a choir seems like the worst place to go in a pandemic because everybody's breathing loudly, which is also known as singing. Right, well, I think if they had just come out with stronger advice about this in the first place, if they had heard on the side of scaring people more rather than trying to make this insane terrifying thing

seemed less scary, which is like, didn't work at all. Um, Yeah, we just we should have We should have looked at what other countries did that were successful. My mom is in a choir, and she they canceled her choir practice pretty early on. I feel like it was around that

May eleventh time or Marchial line time or something. But they've been doing zoom meetings, Like I don't think they've been doing actual practice, but I think they've just been doing it as a meet up because it was like such a big kind of social gathering too, so which is good. But shout out to Emily's mom, big supporter of the pods. Listening right now, all gardening man. My parents told me they talked to my great aunt who's like the last of the sort of Holocaust escapees and

my family. Her name is Friedle. She's awesome and she is in like a retirement home where they had to isolate everybody, you know. But they said they talked to her on the phone and that she was like I'm okay. So that to me has been like, well, if she can like be okay about it, you know, she's obviously lived through worse. So yeah, that's the attitude I'm taking to it. I am this is this is slightly off topic, but I watched it's on Criterion. I watched UM Cover

Girl last night. It's like this Charles vied Or Technicolor musical at Jen Kelly and Rita Hayworth in it, like perfect fluff. I was taking your que Molly of just watching. That's all I've been doing. It's watching musical TCM, not for dark too. It's always fair Weather. It's actually really cynical, but it's still like cynical about television, so it actually

feels on brand. Well. Cover Girl is like a ninety four, like right, you know, Peak Warriors, um musical, and there's this whole number in it that I posted on my Twitter about rationing that I just thought was so charming because the attitude was like, yeah, like I don't know, Like I know, it sucks stating in and everything and like not being able to get certain things. But if I think about doing that for like like four years or however long that the war effort was truly underway

and like you know, on the home front. I know all these words because I had the Molly doll, the American goal doll, which about but like a Victory gardens she had. I always was mad that her name was Molly because I thought she was the most boring one, the best funky, and she was. She always had a scheme. She always like, if your name is Molly and you're like a nerd with glasses, you don't want Molly to glasses. See. I thought she was the coolest because she had the

glass the glasses. It was so cool to have a doll with glasses and they were really cool wire rimmed glasses. I can't believe you guys had the doll. Oh. I had like so many of the dolls, and then I really went for Yeah, I think I had three. I had Felicity, Addie and Molly. And now I'm also showing how uncool I am that I was totally getting these dolls when I was like older than I collectors items. No, I know, this was like for playing with dolls, and

I had their beds and stuff. And then my mom saved them and sent them to me for my daughter, and she made this big thing like, don't give her Molly until she's old enough to appreciate. Was like, but the other ones, it doesn't matter. She was like, no, the Molly dolls the best doll. I didn't own the dolls, but I remember like pouring over the catalog I did, just like all the tiny stuff and looking at it and reading the books. I've also been thinking that the

Francis Hodgden Burnett books, which are like Victorian asceticism. Little Princess is like a very good, get you through hard times book because it's all all about just like going from having a lot of stuff to having nothing and being okay about it. Yeah. I was. I was really

really into a Little Princess. Yeah, before the movie, and then I was in a musical Little Princess, and I was like, twelve, can I recommend a Very Nightcall movie also that I watched on t C M M. I'm married a Witch starring Veronica Lake and Frederick March directed I Renee Claire. It is like very much a proto love which type movie? Um, and Emily, I saw you reposted Annabeller posting that you can substitute eggs with blood to make a cake. Annabyll on to know more nice

looking red velvet cake. Yeah, I'm married. I'm married. A Witch is like it's just for onical because this like sassy like witch who just you know, does a spell on this guy to make her fall in love with her, make hi fall in love with her. But it's got a lot of weird sight gags. I just enjoyed it. It's just silly nice. Yeah, we keep meaning to talk about this every week, but I think we keep forgetting.

I need to know what you guys are cooking, by the way, for the pandemic cooking update, because every time we talk about scary stuff um with regards to the pandemic, I feel like we need to take a minute. If there's anything you're eating to share, definitely, Um. I well, I think I shared this on the pod, but I've been going to India Sweets and Spices, which is like a local Indian grocery here an outwater village and they're

really sweet there. They've got you know, everything that you need to make a ship ton of Indian food, just like mass amounts. So I think the best thing I made recently was some doll um with a modified recipe from Chowhound. So if you want to look that up, um, yeah, but I have, like, I mean, I had everything to like really do it. So I had like the key, I had all the spices and everything, and it was really really good. So that sounds amazing. Yea um a

little I Molly gave me potatoes. I did a barter. It was really fun Um. I was nervous that I had like breathed into the air and it was hanging there while you retrieved. It was so funny, I said. It was like the Jackie Brown drop off. But it was like test standing at her front door with her kids and like me standing at the curb, and then like I came forward and dropped the bag and then ran back, and then she came forward and it almost went over the line. And TOUCH was like, I mean, no,

he can be you know, the social distancing. Explaining that to like, you know, in particular, my seven year old has been a challenge because like on walks he'll be like, oh, look a dog, and I'm like, no, I have been having so much fun with these potatoes. I could not find potatoes for some reason, and then Molly gave me some, um, and I think they're like it's one of those weird things where it just depends on when you go to

the market. I guess, like I I go sometimes and they have like no milk, no eggs, and then the next time I go they have like no poultry. Um. But yeah, I was having trouble finding potatoes and then Molly gave me potatoes and it made a really good hash with Friday so good, so thank you. I found at Cafe Tropical is running a grocery um saying get eggs there. So oh, but did you guys hear that they may be stopping restaurants from doing that. It makes

me so upset. It's because I read that. Yeah, Barbara Ferrer, who is I think the county health person um has said that because they don't have grocery licenses, they're going to start cracking down on restaurants that are selling groceries, which has been one of the best things most like resourceful and helpful. That's done. So they're not gonna stop grocery stop restaurants from letting you pick up delivery just

from buying groceries there. It's going to be that they have to be preparing, like they have to be selling food that's prepared as opposed to selling grocery items are panting. They need to they need to make a temporary suspension of that law because that's going to be so much waste. Then it's so much waste, and it's so it's the only way that a lot of these small businesses are staying that float. Well. It's funny because I've seen people being like, look at how much like milk is getting

wasted because it can't be like all used or delivered correctly. Basically, it was just about how there's like all this food waste because the supply chain being sucked up. But then people were like, hey, I've got some news for you about grocery stores, like they all do that every day.

I keep thinking that if there's one thing that we can continue to take with us from this, it would have been having you know, small like independently owned restaurants being able to sell groceries and pantry items instead of having people just rely on grocery stores. It seems like such a mutually beneficial and sustainable thing to do. So it was I was shocked. I mean, I was like, grocery lobby is cracking down. They closed down the Brentwood

Farmers Market because Katherine Schwarzenegger complained. Yes, so Katherine Schwarzenegger get on the phone with Dr Ferrer, please, I'm just like, I just do. It made me kind of mad because I was like cool, cool, like the mayor of l a like listens when like a famous person speaks, he does something about something. But of course so frustrating. I mean, this whole thing is every so often you're just like

nobody smart is in charge. That's the problem, Like the dumbest person in the world is in charge of the country. But also like locally, most people are kind of showing their ass. It seems like especially I saw this really bummer. Not to make it a bummer again, but there was like a picture in Las Vegas of how they put all the unhoused people in a parking lot where people were six ft apart in a parking lot with like no shelter, and it was like, hey, guess what, all

the hotels are empty. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. I mean, it only makes sense if you only care about I don't even doesn't make sense. But I've and cooking a lot. Love to cook great way to get my mind off things. I use some of those potatoes. I have a whole sack of potatoes, made some baked potatoes, made a pasta salad last night just because I was stressed and needed a task sad. I finally got some produce on the last trip. I was kind of just all eating you know, can stuff and beans, and it

was funny because I had been eating like I guess healthy. Uh. And then one night I just like got some fucking ruffles or something and I was like it was like a narcotic. It was crazy. I was like, Oh, turns out that like my body still is like mmmm delicious chemical. Um. Well, I know that you don't have quite the same effect. But if you guys need any beans, hit me up. I actually have a surplus of beans now after having

been a I'm covered on beans. It's more like replenishing fresh stuff that is making me stressed out now, Like yeah, well I took I took a page out of Molly's parents book and put my parsley. I put all of my herbs and vases. Um, and it works better with some than others. I got green onions, but they didn't have their roots. Um, they were in like a produce basket from Little Dom's. Actually, speaking of restaurants that are

doing grocery deliveries, they've been doing great produce boxes and stuff. Um, but my parsley is going great base style And that was totally ripped from Molly's mom's Instagram shout out to my parents. My parents are also hippies, so they're like chilling, and my mom said something nice about like, oh maybe like the hippie ethos will come back more like people will become less materialistic because of this. It's like, I hope so, but for now, back to plastic surgery month

after a quick break Welcome Back. We were going to kick off this segment with a night email from Emily, not me, I can't yes, not not Emily Oshida, other Emily. I can't recall who first mentioned it, but someone once pointed out that Bella Hadid, who clearly had a significant amount of facial work done, almost certainly used Carla Bruney's

face as a model for her facial re sculpting. It's especially apparent if you make a side by side comparison of pre surgery Bella, young Carla Bruney and then post surgery Bella. It's also impossible not to see it once you've noticed it. Lots of lum from a longtime fan, Emily Um, this is a very striking resemblance. Guys, Yeah,

I went through a she looks exactly like Carla Bruney. Also, my friend Dina Rankin was supposed to call it Unkno, she did, but she wanted to report robbery, which is that Bella had stole her face, which is also true because she naturally does look like Bellahodie looks like now. It's like one thing if she kind of was like, oh I like her nose or whatever, I'd like to I'd like that nose. But like it seems she's met. They've met several times, like I think Bella has called

Carla like her soul twin. Um. She met for the first they met for the first time and can last year, and it feels like every single picture that they take together, it just genuinely feels like something from a single white female esque movie. Like it feels like she is actually trying to steal her face and her identity in the process. It's very odd, right, I Mean, the problem with this type of plastic surgery is that first of all, you have to have a lot of money to do it,

so that's the main problem. But I also like Bella Hadid. She comes up a lot on slub New sleb face um as somebody who photoshops her pictures. Still, even though she keeps changing her face a little bit, she also denies that she changes her face, which is fine. I feel like that's also the Kardashian strategy. They're just like say they didn't get anything done, but you know, photos

tell a different story. Yeah, And can you explain what what celeb faces cleb faces and Instagram account that compares people's candid photos to the versions they put on Instagram that are photoshopped. It's super interesting because you find out that all of the big influencers and like basically every famous beautiful person still photoshops their pictures and do oblivion.

And there's a really funny one if Bella Hadid from the other day where somebody photoshopped in like a patch of grass and it looks like net art because it's like very badly photoshopped in I'm gonna find this. It's like, isn't it a lot? Or it's like an invite only account or it used to be. Yeah, but there's a bunch of them. It's a whole cottage industry now of people that post, you know, here's a candid photo of

this person, and here's what they look like online. Because yeah, one of the things about the new plastic surgery is that it is so much based on like what will it look like on a camera phone, you know, And a lot of these people do end up getting basically the exact same face. And Bella Hadid got Carla Bruni's face, and with that, I have to wonder because her mom. The thing about the Hadid sisters also is that their mom is like a manager, a model manager. For those

yo not Hadid anymore. Yeah, for those who watched Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, she was like a super intense, awful um manager to them. She told she couldn't have a slice of cake. She said this thing about like, if you're hungry, just eat four almonds, which like a lot of famous people say, And then I found out it comes from some super famous wellness retreat that people all go to. Weird, Yeah, where they starts, I forget, but it's like old school. It's like the Door or something.

It's some detox wellness thing, but like one of the things that they put you on, like a cleanse of where you just like drink juice and eat almonds. But um, I wonder if Yolanda was obsessed with Carla Bruney. Yeah, it's such a weird pull for somebody. Bella's h That's the weird thing about it. I'm like, why would she

be obsessed with Carla Bruney? Um, Like, if she was gonna go to a nineties model, you would just assume she would go for one of like your classic supers, you know, like it would make more sense if she was trying to morph into Cindy Crawford or something. But don't you think that she that it probably had something

to do with her pre surgery. See like getting that comparison maybe once or twice and just being like, oh, if I look, if someone thinks nothing like when you look at it, I look, but I still think that, Like you don't just random. I don't I don't think that it was completely like, I mean, it's hard for me to believe she was a huge carl La Bruney fan or something like that and was like I'll steal

her face. I think it was probably that they were talking about things that they could do and maybe going like that. I mean, now I'm going totally crazy and picturing a plastic surgeon who's like really an artist or something, being like like showing a portfolio and being like, I think we could do a really good Carla Bruney. That it's possible, right, it's picture to the salon. Yeah, I could see Yolanda doing that too. People do do that though.

Now apparently they do bring pictures from Instagram to their plastic surgeons and are like, make me look like that. Some US exurgions are like, I can't doesn't exist. Yeah. I think the thing that's always most striking from celeb face and and those kinds of accounts is that it's not necessarily um like how things have been doctored, but it's just like it's like the quality of people's skin

is so tell tale when they've had stuff done. It's like that really kind of like there's a sheen to it that where it's just like that that stands out almost as much as the work itself, where it's just like this, there's something that something unnatural has been going on to read the surface here, it's all right, um, but you see that with her and with an extent too,

But I don't know. It's just kind of breaks my brain a little bit because the whole thing is I'm like, well, like, you know, what are you supposed to tell people, like, you know, just develop a good personality, work really hard, and you know you'll catch up to these people and it's like, well that's not true, like yeah, getting it's like it is giving them current like more currency in

the world. And there was like a very scary to me thing I saw emerge online where people were like there's something before people were like there's no such thing as ugly, like just poor, oh yeah definitely, Like well that's your problem. It's like anybody can like anybody can like exercise and learn how to put on makeup. You know, there's like things people that want to do the self improvement can do to make themselves look better if that's

what you care about. But like you won't be able to compete with somebody who just has like endless reserves of money, and that's their whole jobs working on being hot. And that's what the shift was when younger people started getting like significant work done, was that it wasn't about

youth anymore. It was about money. Um right, totally because because pole that are young, that have a lot of botox, it like makes you perversely look older in my mind, because it makes people because people who have a lot of botox, I'll have that same sort of like porcelain doll forehead thing. It's it's just also, I mean, we're we associate that, we associate that kind of look with other people. Historically, older people got exactly do you think

younger people don't? They just don't know. No. I see it all the time when when someone I know gets a significant amount of work done, I think it makes them look a lot older. But I also know that it doesn't matter at all what I think of the face. It's like everybody like, it's just it's no longer to look more like a slider scale towards beauty or youth

or something. It's more like to look like I had the work done to look like yeah, um, I mean I don't think that's the case all the time, but I think when when it comes to like influencers and the most visible people who are getting this work done, I think I think that that is that's more that and it's I think for people who like people like us who came up more in the nineties or something and like had I think a more in some ways less diverse, but in other ways more diverse ideas of

like what could be beautiful in terms of like beautiful celebrities and stuff. It's very odd, like it's just it's very the same too. I don't know. I feel like I was just as I felt just as afraid of like girls and Delia's catalogs, you know, just like there was still this thing of like, oh, well, some people are just like naturally better looking than others, and like what can be done about that? Too? Bad? Our whole like society is constructed about around telling women this is

their only quality. Yeah. You know, what I always think is kind of interesting is like wondering if people get plastic surgery young so that they don't have to see how they age naturally. Like it's you could even maybe say that they don't care whether it prematurely ages them in a way, because it takes away their body's capacity to show how it naturally would age, so it kind

of gives them control, you know that. It is like always kind of alarming when you get to like I would say it probably for me around the age of thirty five, So just about two years ago, I was like, wow, totally different texture of my skin. Like it it went from like the skin of a person who was this age to the skin of a person who was a different agent. And a lot of that's because I live in l A and I get a lot of sun

and you know whatever. And I didn't freak out about it so much as I just kind of observed that, oh, I can see how I'll be in ten years, Like I can kind of predict the trajectory. So I think in a way, it can also just feel like you're taking back control and how you look becomes almost secondary to just feeling as if you've regained control of something.

That that's the thing. It's like, there's a that's the point to which I'm like, Also, it's fine to get plastic surgery, you know, like, even like if it's for you in some way. Well it's nobody's business. I mean, it's nobody's business, you know. Especially people were like obviously if it's like an expression of your gender identity, like that is fine, and I have no issues about It's the only time I ever get stressed about it is when I feel like it's like women trying to achieve

something that's unachievable. Well, yeah, I mean it's there's like a big debate about whether or not it's feminist to do it's. I don't I think it's pretty. I mean I think it's not even on that like line of thinking.

It's like not, that's not there. There was a whole thing of like choice feminism that was like any choice a woman makes this feminist, and I do think of it because I was thinking about like Gwen It Paltrow's whole thing is like, you know, I eat so healthy that it's like shaming other people for being not as

like healthy and full of energy as me. But also like I get like botulism put in my face, you know, like not it's not the old hippie ethos in any way, because it's like I don't know, it has nothing to do with like also I'm gonna just like let my hair grow gray and like see what I look like. Well, I think that's like the I think there are kind of two poles of how you can think about this stuff.

And there's like one pole is like what I would call like the glow, like when people don't talk about actually getting work done, but they're just like like you just want to nash a natural fresh glow and you want to look like you didn't do anything, and like that you just starre Gwyneth Paltrow and you just drink juice all day and your skin just radiates youth and you don't get wrinkles because of that. And then there's like the Kardashians poll, which is just like, yeah, I

bought my lips, Like that's what I did. I made a choice that I caught them, and I I feel like and I wouldn't put a value judgment on either of those. I just think that there's like there's just like a spectrum of how people approach it where it's like they're both expressing the same thing, which is like I have money and that's what we're saying. It's like that's all it really is a signifier of It's like

I can afford to do this. Yeah, I think that that's sort of like especially like talking about this stuff now, That's like what I keep coming back to. It's just that, especially when we think about like um like fictional depictions of procedures and stuff, it's like there's so much sci fi or like futurefi um stuff where it's just like the decadent rich just like doing expressive things to their faces because they yeah, and like a lot of it too.

I feel like it's like this very like pitiful portrayal like via men of what they think it's like to be an aging woman, you know, like the Brazil scene and stuff like there's a little or sunset boulevard, you know, just like, oh, what could be more tragic than being a woman who used to be hot and like can't be again. And you know, first of all, it's like remember Dousman is hot? Yeah, probably like thirty five. If you learned anything from Valley of Adults, Yes, yeah, yeah,

but I did. I wrote something for the newsletter about Dean Martin's nose job and some of the other famous men who got procedures that I had no idea about, but like John Wayne got a facelift um because it's not even in the vocabulary. You know, Like obviously all the A list male actors get work done, but to admit they're getting work done and dying their hair like isn't masculine. So like none of them ever admit to it.

And it's not sad even if it was like out there, it's not sad in the same way that like a woman trying to like freshen her face so that she can continue to get work it's like sad. I don't know, Yeah, And I like that Jane Fonda said she you was going to stop getting work done because like it's just for me. With somebody like Jane Fonda, You're like you would have looked amazing just anyway because you're Jane Fonda.

But I understand also how somebody who was like so hot and you know, sold stuff, they had a lot of self esteem issues anyway, like without having Yeah, I think the issue is it like praise on people with low self esteem, you know, So like when somebody gets work done because they think it's going to like fill a hole in their soul, you just know that it won't probably, But when somebody does work done for like a financial reason, Like if you're a stripper and you

want to make more money by getting bigger boobs, like that is great, that makes perfect sense to me. That's like, yeah, it depends on how you. I think, like everybody, just everybody's body has a different used to that. And I think that's why it's hard to judge somebody getting something done versus another person getting something done. Is that like I'm I don't use my body in that way or rely on it for that thing. I'm not a person in front of a camera. I'm not a person who

dances for money or anything like that. So like it's not it's not something that I would do. Therefore, it's not like my my opinion of whether or not I would do it has nothing to do with like whether or not somebody else should I don't know exactly. Turns into like some judge ship is the problem, you know, It's like it's because it threatens people. I think. I also think and this is like this is something I

feel like I'll keep coming back to. Is that I think that as much as um, you know, whatever is trendy right now, having jubiterm lips or getting button plants or whatever, like however much that's prized or or idea realized. I do also think the idea of like your true face is also sort of over idealized. I think it's like kind of a it's like a fake ideal because I think that so many things can happen to a face, like don't like in my case, like I had an

injury when I was a kid to my face. I got bit by a dog in the face and I was like eleven, and I've had two reconstructive surgeries on my face, and so like from an early age, even before like you know, actually like at the prime time when you start to be super self conscious about your looks and everything, I have not had quote unquote my

my real face or my natural face or something. And and so I think, like I guess from an early age that's why I kind of started to feel like it was all kind of subjective, like there's there's not I'm there's no like normal for me to to, you know, I think beauty is subjective. And that's like I think just in the way that everything has gotten more extreme constantly, it's like there's also been a greater acceptance of real

body types and real human looks. It does feel like the standards of beauty have also brought in in like a very necessary way, because yeah, because it's like there is no one ideal. People like all different kinds of things, like between the three of us, like we all like totally different things, you know, like the myths that everyone's in competition for the same resources all the time. It's like, no,

it's good that we all find different things beautiful. And what you notice about Instagram faces, it's like it does just sort of lose its appeal at a certain point

because it's so expected. There's never any like asymmetry. Yeah, and I think like it always comes out like I always realize that there is so much room for different ideas of beauty whenever, especially like on film, Twitter or something, and if people just start talking about like their crushes, their celebrity crushes, and it's always so wild and all over the place where people find hot um you know, like Adam Drivers like a sex symbol at this point,

which is just like kind of tells you everything you need to know, Like like there's not as much as I think whatever powers that be want us to think that there's one particular kind of way for somebody. Look, it's very clear that people left with their own devices, Like there's some for men for sure, definitely, yeah, I mean yeah, but I get to have like interesting noses and be actors still, so do women. I mean, I don't know. I feel like it's not it's not how

it used to be at all. Like I think that there is so much more room and I feel I don't know. I mean, to me, I've never really, I really, for the past like ten years, I have let go of caring at all about how people look to to. I mean not obviously there's gonna be like a subconscious thing going on, but I really tried to like have that be something I worked on. And I feel like you very quickly realize that the subjectivity also has to

do with like, you know, Adam drivers very confident. You know, you guys know how I feel driver, but he's very confident, and like, you know, I mean, look at Harvey Kitel's very sexy man Like. It's like there's there's a lot of things that go into it, but you can train yourself to care less and then when you do that, it feels tedious to be around people who really care.

I think it's also like the way that that men present their standards, especially on the internet, but also just like teenage boys, it's like it scares you into being like, wow, guys only want like this super hot girl, and then like later in time you're like, oh, everyone like ended up with a regular sin. Well yeah, and also like I I think that's like that's actually kind of like

this chain reaction thing, right. It's like teenage boys have a very often stupid and limited imagination of what's hot, but that's at the same time they're projecting that on girls or like oh I have to be like that.

And then even if those boys grow up and have more nuanced or personal ideas of beauty, like there's still some like we're we're this is all in the realm of hetero sexuality obviously, but like we're left with this sort of complex of whatever teenage boys like this is cute, Like no, I don't think like any most women like

don't think they are beautiful. Even if they are, uh and beautiful, women are all still super super self conscious about something, and people who are really beautiful also get treated like objects in a way that sucks really bad. So that also like huge downside is there anything less attractive than someone who being with someone who's tremendously vain.

I mean, I've always found that to be one of the kind of least appealing characteristics that a person can have, because it really boils down to like a superficial selfish you know, I'm grossed out by male vanity, and I remember by female vanity too. I don't think that's what it's male, No, totally, but I just mean, like when like the metro sexual thing happened in the two thousand's and they were trying to like normalize like like, hey, straight men, like you should also spend a lot of

money and energy caring about your appearance. It was like no, no, nobody, yes, please don't make them like wax themselves and put on

contours on their face. And it's because it's tedious when you grow up, like you know, if you're a woman or a man who grows up kind of trying to achieve these like effects through make up or like you know, pushing yourself to work out or plastic surgery or whatever, then you become you hate it even more in other people, maybe even you know, because who could be in a partnership with somebody who also spent that amount of time just caring about how they look. I mean, I suppose

it happens all the time. It's probably extremely common, but I just can't imagine a happy relationship where both people were so vain, like how did they even communicate? Somebody was saying, this must be the most time Kim and Kanye have ever had to spend together. Continue if they're in the same in the same house, supposedly, and this is definitely the most time Kim's ever had to spend with her kids. Because she was complaining about it, look more power to Kim. I mean, none of us have

ever spent you. You're doing it other times. I think the point was like she just uses her kids as accessories, and then she had to deal with their them being annoying and was like I don't want this. Yeah, before you wrap up, since we just talked about Kim, I do want to point out so when we when we opened this episode, we talked about Simon orion Um from I don't know if I pronounce it a piony. I think Beverly Hills Um. Yeah, I don't know, in Beverly Hills.

But I do want to say that One of the crazy things about him is that he experimented with procedures on himself and so as a result, he looks a lot like Kim Kardashian. It's like he tried to perfect it. No, no, no, they all are turning into Chris Jenner, and that's the spurious part. But I was a moment, There was a moment where Kim looked exactly like Chris, and I think

she kind of moved away from it. Oh yeah, she was like, oh no, I think it's probably like Simon Orion gave himself that face, and then he gave it to Chris Jenner, and then Chris Jenner gave it to all of her kids. It's like herona can Yes, can you imagine being a plastic surgeon who's messing around with your own face? Yes, I'm gonna say I think it's a lot more common than you would like to think. No, no,

I think it's pretty. But it never I never like looked at a person saw and then found out like, oh, he did it to himself, And then I could kind of see like, oh, you know, he probably had to correct this a million times, and then he was look, that's right. If you're a doctor who plays god with people's faces. That's a probably attracts a certain personality type for sure. Um, well, that will do it for us

this week. We're gonna be back next week and for the next several weeks with more to call plastic surgery content. If you have a nightcall about any because cosmetic procedure and he experiences, stories, conspiracies, anything like that, give us a nightcall. It went to four oh four six night. We've got a lot of fun stuff manned for this month, so it'll it'll be good. Um. You can follow us on social media. We're on Twitter at Nightcall Pod, Instagram,

a Nightcall podcast on Facebook, and Nightcall Podcast. Um. Subscribe to us on iTunes and leave a review if you'd be so kind, And you can also join our Patreon at patreon dot com slash Nightcall where we've got bonus episodes, newsletter, merch, all sorts of fun stuff and yeah, we'll see everybody next week. Night Calls Executive producer is Anna Jasie, our producer is Joel Smith, our engineer is Zach McKeever, and our editor is Doug Bowen. We'll see you guys next week. See you next week,