Storm Goretti batters the UK!

You're listening to our podcast of Nick Ferrari at breakfast on LBC. This is LBC from Global.

Leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferrari at breakfast. Good morning to you. Four minutes after seven on Friday, January the 9th. So the weather bomb, as the French meteorological office called it, has exploded.

How are you doing this morning as you're possibly waking up or possibly trying to go to bed? Are you one of the tens of thousands of homes without power? Are you some of the people who've had to evacuate? Are you possibly some of the people who had 99 miles an hour winds? 99 miles an hour! And have you been affected by the closure of some of the airports? We've got reporters nationwide. But of course, I want to hear your stories too and how you're coping.

The one positive, it does appear, as you heard on the LBC News bulletin there, it does appear that the storm is moving on for other areas now. Meanwhile, the storm continues in the United States. Vice President J.D. Vance. defending the actions of those ICE agents. He was speaking at the White House yesterday.

You have a woman who aimed her car at a law enforcement officer and pressed on the accelerator. Nobody debates that. I can believe that her death is a tragedy while also recognizing that it's a tragedy of her own making.

Earlier this week, the Prime Minister signed the Declaration of Intent with Emmanuel Macron to put British troops boots on the ground in peacekeeping efforts in Ukraine. Now we hear of the top defence chief who says the government is short of... Just 28 billion pounds. You may recall earlier this week, I spoke with the former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO in Europe, General Sir Richard Sheriff, who told me... Enforcing peace means being prepared to overmatch the Russians.

And that means also being prepared to fight them if necessary. So we could have British troops firing on Russian military personnel in Ukraine? We could. And now Russia say, by the way, British military and French...

would be legitimate targets. We'll update you on that story and speak to a former Defence Secretary. And in the field of education, where's the primary school, I stress primary school, where teachers are ready to go on strike because of almost daily attacks from pupils? Yes, that would be a primary school. And then to another level of education, to universities. And where is the college that might actually now discriminate in favour of private school pupils as they fear a reverse discrimination?

A view here on that from Jess Stauffenberg, education policy expert. There's huge institutional knowledge across most elite private schools of how to get kids in. Trinity Hall needs to show the proof as to why those schools need a specific policy. 0345 6060 973 Text 84850 Nick Ferrari at breakfast on LBC

Enough from me about the storm. I want to hear how you've got through. I hope you're OK. I hope you're not one of the people who's without power or been evacuated. But as I say, enough from me. Let's go to my colleagues who are actually out there in the field. First, LBC's Andy Ballantyne joining us from Topmers in Devon, where there was a red wind warning. last night, hitting, I think, the 90s or so. Andy joins me now. Morning, Andy.

Good morning. It really was bonkers out here. I couldn't even hold my pasty, Nick. I've never known anything quite like this in 30 plus years, perhaps since the great storm of 1987. Power cuts have already affected... to thousands of homes in Cornwall and on the Isles of Scilly. National Grid at one point reporting 112 incidents in Cornwall, leaving nearly 54,000 properties with no power.

But 41,000 households are waking up with no power this breakfast. A record at St. Mary's Airport on the Isles of Scilly with a gust of 99 miles per hour officially recorded. unconfirmed reports of 110 mile per hour gusts at Boss Castle. While St Ives MP Andrew George had to return to London after aborting his travel plans. Stay indoors, stay indoors. There's no need to go out. A lot of power has been lost. A lot of trees are down. A lot of impact on the local community.

A government alert message effectively told people not to travel and stay indoors, and that remains this morning. If you can work from home, then do so, is the message from Cornwall Council. The main worry is flood water, especially in the dark. where you don't know how deep it is. The advice is don't drive through it. Train services across the whole of Cornwall remain suspended. People have also been urged to stay away from the coast. Huge waves have been seen anywhere from 8 to 12.

So nearly four metres high. We wait for daylight to see the true extent of the damage caused by Storm Goretti. Now it's over to my colleague Caitlin Parr, who's in Merthyr Tydville.

Thanks so much, Andy. Well, just over 500 homes left to regain power across Wales this morning as crews have been out overnight. More than 80 schools in Mid and South Wales closed, but Storm Gretti is slowly moving away. Thank you. The Amber Warning came into force, causing chaos in the South Wales Valleys. And outside of that Amber Warning zone in northwest Wales, we even heard mountain rescue teams on Irwydsva or Snowdon saying that they were concerned...

Concerned avalanches could be triggered by walkers disrupting unstable snow there. So incredibly dangerous scenes outside of that weather warning area as well. Now that amber snow warning will lift here in the next hour. Yellow snow, rain and wind warnings will all lift by midday. But Judith Bryce from the Welsh Ambulance Service say they're expecting a big rise in demand. before those warnings end

We've put additional resources out and that includes managers out on frontline vehicles. So we are prepared in that space. We've also put additional resources on to make sure that our staff can get into work and get home from work at the end of shift. It does mean in areas like remote parts of Wales that it may take us longer to reach you. But what we would say is that please, if you need us, continue to call and we will be there.

And roads in many of those rural areas we heard Judith Bryce talking about still blocked this morning. The majority of rail services across Wales running at a reduced timetable, if not cancelled completely. So advice this morning is to check. before you travel. And we can hear more now on travel disruption from George Icke, who's at Birmingham Airport.

Thanks, Caitlin. Well, the scene here is one of hope, slowly rebuilding after the runway of Birmingham Airport was shut for coming up on 12 hours now. When I arrived here just after 4am, the entire airport was covered in snow, car parks inaccessible, families on the brink of four... fallouts and children sleeping on the floor of departures. The airport says because of consistent heavy snowfall from early yesterday evening. I spoke to Joe who's been stuck here overnight trying to get to Dubai.

So I arrived here last night at 6 o'clock. My flight was at 8.50. And then I'm currently booked on the 1.40. this afternoon so i think some people have been moved to manchester um the morning flight is fully booked some people have been delayed till tomorrow so um yeah i'm unfortunate so i'm going i'm going to rise to see my daughter twin i've got twins that are grandchildren and it's their birthday saturday so as long as i get there for saturday that's fine

So as we heard there, a number of flights have already been cancelled, lots more delayed still throughout the day, not just here but also at East Midlands Airport, who for a brief time had to also close their runway too. West Midlands Railway also have no trains running at the moment, but say they're working on...

getting some routes opened as a priority early this afternoon. So after almost 12 hours of chaos, Nick, passengers here and people across the Midlands are cautiously optimistic that trains will get back on track and planes hopefully include the one I'm due to catch this evening.

evening will take off without any problems. George, what the hell is going on with the Birmingham Bureau? Whenever I talk to you or your colleague Luke Shannon, all you tell me is that you're like the modern-day Judith Chalmers, you're always going on your holidays. Did your colleague get away? Did Luke get away last night?

He didn't, Nick, because he's going with me this evening. I'll be holding his hand through security. What is it, a holiday club up there in Birmingham? What is going on, the two of you? Put on earth to work! Where are you going, George?

We are going to Dublin for a mini-break, if we get there. Yeah, happy landings. Look after yourself. George, thank you. You heard from Andy Ballantyne and then Caitlin Parr and George Ike rounding off reporters and Nationwide 13 After 7. Remember, I want to hear your stories.

But let's find out. Is it fair to say that possibly the storm has moved on? Steph Goulter is a meteorologist at Square at Raindrop and joins me now. Have we seen and witnessed the worst of it, would you say? Steph, good morning. Hello. Yes, it does look like the worst of the winds, especially for Devon and Cornwall, is over. There, the winds are very much dropping. The storm centre itself is now tracking its way eastwards along the south coast. So the winds are still very strong in the south.

but they're not gusting to the sort of 100. And we did see 123, unconfirmed gust of wind there. So incredibly strong for Cornwall. The worst there is over. What we're now seeing is the rain and the snow that was arched right over the top of it. And that's what was giving all the snow as far as northern England. That is now pivoting and heading its way eastwards. So it's sort of in a line, the middle of the country. There, you've got rain to the east, whereas to the west.

The rain and the sleet and the snow, that's all coming to an end now. So slowly, all of that wintery mess is going to edge its way eastwards. Probably still going to be clinging on to that eastern coast as we head into evening time. But it's gradually now pulling away and it is a real mess of rain, sleet and snow. And how long in the east will it continue for then, Steph? It's going to eventually clear this evening.

but not first thing this evening, so later this evening it will go. And then the problem is the cold air's back. So then anything on the ground, all that rain, all the water that's on the ground, that's going to freeze. So it's going to be a very icy night again.

And lastly, a reprieve over the weekend, or do you sense there's more bad weather blowing in later on the weekend or through next week? So it does look like as we head into Sunday and Monday, we'll see some far mild air. Well, I say far.

relatively milder air come in. So yes, it's January. Don't expect tropical Dubai conditions like that person was off to there. But it is still going to be milder. We're not going to see as much... sleet and snow and ice around especially in the southern half of the country in parts of scotland it's still going to be cold it is january but elsewhere it should be the end of this particularly severe

very cold spell. Steph Goulter is a meteorologist at Square Raindrop. Thanks for your input on that. Remember, I want to hear your stories, how you've coped, whether you were slip-sliding, whether you can't get it up the hill, down the hill, whatever it might be, we'll take your stories. We'll also go off to the US. Stormers, I said earlier, of a different kind. Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, defending the officer who shot and killed that woman in Minneapolis.

This is an experienced officer who followed his training and we will continue to let the investigation unfold into the individual and continue to follow the procedures and policies that happen in these use of force cases.

And do you remember this, back in 2024, when baby Elsa, as she was called, was discovered abandoned in a shopping bag in East London? Chief Superintendent Simon Critt from the Met told us at the time... We were called by a member of the public and their dog who had discovered a newborn baby.

in a shopping bag at the junction of Greenway and High Street South. Some good news, baby Elsa is to be adopted and, in a most extraordinary story, put in touch with her older siblings who were found abandoned in similar circumstances. Yes, there's almost a family of them. We'll give you more details later in the show. 7.20, your calls coming in. Nigel, you're top of the queue. Come to you in just a moment. Quickly tell you the front pages that hopefully you're going to bed too.

Sorry, hopefully waking up to, or some of you may be going to bed too much. You've had a stormy night, of course. You might not have got that much sleep, of course. The paper's a little bit too late to get the full impact of the storm. There's a couple of pictures on the front pages. There's a political storm, really, that's brewing, and we will look at it in more detail.

later in the show, which is yet another U-turn. They must be giddy at numbers 10 and 11 with all these U-turns. Pub U-turns, too little, too late, says the Daily Mail. Reeves to climb down on pub tax. is the front page of the Daily Telegraph. Let's just pick another couple. This is a powerful story, and again, one we're going to reference later in the show, the front page of the Times, the Defence Chief who's warning...

The government needs an extra... The military needs an extra £28 billion from the government. This, of course, as Keir Starmer said, that effectively... Come some kind of peace deal, they will go operational, declining to say how many troops will be involved. But a figure that was bandied around yesterday was 7,500. Just bear with me, 7,500. Military experts will tell you, you need effectively...

Three times that, those troops. So for every man or woman, you need three, because you need those who are there, those who are about to be deployed, and those who have come back. So that's 21,000, 22,000 odd. There's only 72,000 people in the army, 20% of whom...

are deemed medically unable to serve at the front line, or not operational, as they call it. So we're not going to get there. That is the reality. We'll look at that in more detail. The LBC app's got all the details of the storm, thousands without power. My colleague Andy Valentine said around 40,000 in the West Country. Across the whole of the country, obviously, I can't give you that, but they're looking like 71,500 is the tally at the moment. Thousands!

of schools are forced to close that's all on the front page of for the lbc app and one at random the independent there we go they've got some pretty powerful pictures from the protests or what they call violent clashes in minneapolis after, of course, that ICE agent fatally shooting the mother. And, of course, the Trump administration saying again that she was a domestic terrorist and she weaponised the car.

We're going to hear more about that in just a few moments' time. But let's pick up with how you're coping with the weather. Nigel, in Mayfair. Nigel, how is it for that rather nice part of town? Good morning. Well, very good morning. Before I mention the weather, can I just nominate Sir Keir Farmer, the next Minister of Transport?

So good at doing U-turns, perhaps he can rewrite the highway code. Well, he wouldn't want to do a U-turn on this ice. How have you fared, Nigel? Well, we're in London. We're very, very lucky. But as I mentioned to your co-worker who took my call, which you're going to recognise, I'm going to say, as a former...

man who's lived and worked in New York. New York can cope with the snow. We can't. They have snowplows out there. Now, I've got friends who live in Westchester County and that area and in Manhattan. When it snows, they deal with it. Why is it in this country we get snow and we can't deal with it? Nigel, and I lived in Westchester County, and the snow is incredible.

but you can count on it almost every year, the same as you can a Thanksgiving holiday. Here, I can't recall winds of 99 miles an hour, and I can't recall a weather bomb, as the French like to call it, of this magnitude. It's whether you'd be prepared to commit. Nigel, and some of these bits of kit cost £250,000 and you use them once every five years? I don't get the economics.

Let me come back to you. Go on, sir. If you remember, I know you're a younger man than me and you're much better looking. It brings by a year, I would imagine. Anyway, go on. The biggest storm this country has, if I remember, was 1963. And it was horrendous. Right. I remember 86, when Seven Oaks lost six of its oak trees and became one oak. I remember that one. Yeah, wasn't that when the storm wasn't going to come? Yeah, that was Michael Fish. There's no storm, don't worry.

But if you remember, when Gatwick some years ago left the company that was running Heathrow, they put all new infrastructure in with snowplows to keep the place open. You say it costs a lot of money to buy this stuff. Of course it does. Let's look at the cost to business and the cost to everything else when the country stands still. All right. It's a very fair point. Let's see what others make of it. Nigel, look after yourself. Stay warm. Best of the family.

Should that money, I say again, those bits of kit, those extraordinary snowplows, the like of which, and he's right, Nigel's absolutely right, it was extraordinary to live and work in a city like New York because they just didn't stop, they came into work and they get far, far bigger snow dumps.

in New York than we've experienced today, and they just cope with it. And coming down the Bronx River Parkway, as I did most mornings, there they were. But is that money well spent? All right, let's go stay. Thanks, Nigel. We'll stay in the United States, but go elsewhere.

And we go to Minneapolis where those protesters, after the fatal shooting of that young mum, took to the streets. We're here to show up and we're going to keep showing up. And we're going to show ICE that this will not stop us. Is there going to be more?

You know, more things like this happen, more people get shot. I mean, I hope not. No backtracking from the Trump administration, by the way. Domestic terrorists and language such as that. It's Vice President J.D. Vance speaking from the White House.

You have a woman who aimed her car at a law enforcement officer and pressed on the accelerator. Nobody debates that. I can believe that her death is a tragedy while also recognizing that it's a tragedy of her own making and a tragedy of the far left who is marshaled. an entire movement, a lunatic fringe against our law enforcement officers. A lunatic fringe?

So you're not allowed to protest over there? Let's turn to Geoff Hayden, who's a political analyst, former Democrat state senator for Minnesota, and joins us from Minneapolis. Good to have you on, Mr Hayden. Obviously, it's the early hours of the morning there now, but how would you describe the mood from last night? Morning to you. Yeah, good morning. It was pretty tense. You know, the irony of the shooting that happened a couple of days ago, it's about six.

blocks from where the Minneapolis Police Department killed George Floyd. So this area is pretty traumatized. There's a lot of PTSD, but they're resolved, they're strong, but the mood is very, very tense. ISIS on the ground, and they are acting as a mob here in Minneapolis. There are reports that hotels, coffee shops are refusing to serve ICE agents, and the folks there just want them out of town. Is that right, Jeff?

yeah absolutely um You know, all around town, if people identify that that's where Ice Age are, if they're going to the local Target or, you know, there even is, I mean, it's not funny, but it's kind of a comical scene where there's a person that has a full drum set. at a hotel where the ICE agents are staying just to make sure that they don't get a good night's rest. Wow. What's happening as regard investigations into the shooting of the mother? Well, here's the problem is that the Minnesota...

Bureau of Investigations, which is the state police. Investigatory agency actually got caught off by the FBI. The FBI said they won't be sharing information, which further clouds the transparency of the investigation the governor announced yesterday. that the FBI won't be sharing the information. So people are very, very concerned that there won't be transparency in this investigation. Jeff, I can only call it...

From the video that I've seen, I appreciate you probably weren't there, but you'll know a lot of folks involved and you'll have spoken to a lot of folks on the ground. How are you calling it? Yeah, it's in the district that I represented as though five years ago, but it's not far from where I live.

Today, it was clearly everything that I can see, and the investigation hopefully will show the same thing, that she was kind of blocking the street as part of this blockade to try to stop ICE from, you know, terrorism. terrorizing our neighbors, but she was pulling away from the officer and he stepped in front of it.

and shot it directly in the head. And lastly, to those who say, well, if you're told to stop by a police officer, if you're told to get out of your car by a police officer, you should do that and not act, as your president might say, as a former terrorist. How would you respond, Jeff? Well, I would just suggest this, that even if law enforcement said that you should get out,

There are laws that really, really define what type of force that they should use. And they certainly shouldn't use lethal force from an innocent protester who maybe decided not to get out the car. The other thing is that the ICE.

agents have stormed Minneapolis with masks on their face, with uniforms that aren't familiar to us. So often people don't know if the ICE agents are real law enforcement or not. Jeff Hayden, I'll let you get some sleep. It's the early hours of the morning for you. You're a political analyst.

You were a state senator for Minnesota and you're joining us from Minneapolis. 7.28 calls coming in on that again. John's in Woodford. John, your reaction now that we've had 24 hours really to muse, to think on and reflect on what happened there. What are you going to tell me? Good morning.

Well, good morning, Nick. Right, you're a father. I am. I'm a father. I've taken kids to school. I have. Can you imagine that this lady's taking her kids to school? I think she dropped the child off, actually. But anyway... I believe she's got three children.

I'm not sure of the number, but where are we going with that? By the way, you are allowed to protest, and she was taking part in a protest, which you're allowed to do, of course, in most free countries. Okay, I didn't even think she was. I thought they said she dropped her child off.

and now she was going and she hadn't actually blocked the road you know there's so many other stories now the point is if you drop your kid off and you get these people coming towards you you don't recognize you're going to think you're going to get taken in and you won't even get to pick up your kid

later in the day i mean that you panic about that right and therefore you would try to get away from them yes hoping that they won't stop you and take you into questioning it because that's what this this new gang I think they had uniforms. The only uniform they could be wearing were masks. Well, police don't normally come to...

told you with a mask, do they? No, they don't. I mean, if you look at the still photographs, you can see that they have those sort of over jackets or whatever that have got the crest of the various federal crests on them. But I take on board what the man who's joined us from Minneapolis said that there is

the feeling that some of them are wearing uniforms that are unrecognised. John, thank you for your input on that. We might stay with that conversation, although I do sense... Until we have a definitive investigation from the FBI or another law authority, it's difficult really how to move forward. So let's come back to the UK and the government moving forward by yet again going into reverse gear.

LBC broke the story that Rachel Reeves is about to U-turn on business rates for pubs. I'm LBC's Natasha Clark with all the exclusive details. Plus, you know those fat jabs? Well, the jabs are just not the job for firms such as... sandwich and freshly ground fair trade coffee for only £2. Another great deal from Greg's. But Greg's saying they're suffering because people are on those jabs. We'll have more on that after this.

Call 0345 6060 973. 7.34. Back to your calls, Julia, in just a moment. But let's go for our city report, which is really now becoming more... location, location, location as Christian May, the editor-in-chief at City AM, takes us on a tour around his newly purchased home.

I think we might now be in the main sitting room. I'm not sure. I'm very excited. I look forward to getting to one of the bedrooms, of course, as long as Lady May is not Dezabier. I wouldn't want that. Christian May joins me now. Good morning, Christian.

Good morning, Nick. Yeah, I'm thinking of starting to sell some tickets for a tour of this new gaff, but we do have a little bit of DIY to tend to first, and I'm running out of spaces to show you that aren't mostly boxes. But I appreciate your interest, and I look forward to the full housewarming party.

Yes, indeed, and I think I'm providing the Aldi champagne, as I recall. Right, let's talk about the front page stories. Rachel Reeves, story broken by my colleague Natasha Clarke, of course, about the pubs. Christian. Yeah, LBC have been right on this story. And I have to say, it's an extraordinary mess.

The anger that has poured into my inbox from not just pub owners who have said, why have you marched us up this hill? And you're now sort of throwing us a bone to mix my metaphors. But of course... Many other parts of our high street and of the economy. So just to recap.

The government said in the budget that they will be lowering business rates for hospitality industries and retail across the country. Everyone said thank goodness for that. Then it turned out that some sneaky maths meant that actually on the whole they were going to be going up dramatically for almost everyone. Huge...

protest and it was pubs which have a pretty particular place in the heart of many of us as a country who led the charge against this because they're having a difficult time as it is. that the government have now said, OK, we get it, faced with the threat of publicans and landlords marching through London like the farmers did.

And faced with a barrage of concern delivered to the Treasury via Labour MPs, who have got plenty of pubs in their own constituencies, the Chancellor now appears poised to throw perhaps up to half a billion pounds worth of cash at the problem to make it go away. Just for pubs. Well, this is just no way to run a country. It's no way to treat businesses or treat people. And whilst publicans might say thank you for listening to our concerns, by the way, we've got plenty more.

I've got now emails and messages flooding in from people who run restaurants, hotels, cafes and shops saying, what about us? We're still on the hook. So it's an unbelievable mess of the Treasury's own making. Reports saying that the Treasury was blindsided by the backlash.

Well, how can you be blindsided? If you're going to sneakily announce that someone's tax bill is going up as a business from 50 grand to 100 grand, how can you possibly be blindsided by that? It's extraordinary political and economic incompetence. It's not the first U-turn from this government.

only a month or so or a couple of months on from the budget. And I don't think that they're going to win many favours by simply trying to target a particular sector for some support to help bail out of a problem that they made in the first place whilst leaving many other businesses on the hook.

I'm afraid this is just going to be a problem that continues to run for the government. We will run with more of that story in the next hour. Let's move to other city matters. Jingle tills for Marks and Sparks. Yes, they've been after a bit of good news and in the run-up to Christmas they found some. Shares were up yesterday about 5% and closed up yesterday 5% after they reported their Christmas retail period in which food was...

their highlight. A Christmas spending spree on their sparkling wine and party food helped take those sales up about 6.6% on the quarter. They sold about 60 million items of Christmas. products and grocery categories up about just under 3%. On the other hand, their clothing sales did not perform so well. They said that they still had some stock issues following that cyber attack, what they called the incident.

earlier last year, they also pointed out that there was a slightly suppressed demand and reduced footfall on the high street. So that sort of echoes some of the concerns that next... which we were discussing earlier this week, have also highlighted that they do see some trouble on the horizon. Just take a quick look at retailers in general. I see Sainsbury's have just reported as well.

They didn't have quite such a smashing Christmas period. The fastest growing online food retailer was Ocado's for the Christmas period. The fastest growing physical store sales were in Lidl. Next. had the strongest non-food performance. Tesco retained its largest market share and Aldi recorded a record total spend. So the dust will settle on all these different retailers' performances and we'll see where they all stay on the start line.

as the start of 2026. Is that champagne I bought again? I knew I was helping them out. Lastly, Sir Keir Starmer is very keen to get closer to European Union, as are, of course, a lot of other agencies and folk in this country. But one particular group are not that keen. I speak of...

The City of London, the square mile, financial services. This is such an interesting story. It's on the front page of the FT. And credit to them for asking these questions. I wish it had occurred to me, I must be honest.

Government has been making a big noise about how it wants closer relationships with the European Union, talk about elements of the single market, of the regulatory landscape, some enthusiasts talking about rejoining the customs union. Now, that's a political debate in Westminster, and there are

some sectors, agriculture and food, etc., who probably welcome a little bit more of what they call alignment with the EU. But I remember when I was at CTIM at the height of the Brexit referendum and the fallout and the deals and all of that chaos. The City of London was really one of the leading voices saying, for God's sake, please keep us close as possible to the EU. And the government said, no, we're not going to do that.

What's happened since then is that the City of London, which remains Europe's financial services capital by undisputed margin, has forged its own path. They've deviated away from the EU in a number of key areas. The city is doing...

very well it's certainly not doing anywhere near as badly as some of the doom mongering um suggested it would in the immediate wake of the brexit vote and they have found their own way in the world so the idea that the government would now force them to get back into bed with european union rules for financial services is rather horrifying to plenty of people in the city to whom the FT have spoken and we've spoken to some ourselves as well who echo this.

and saying, we don't need this. We have made our own path. We found our own way in the world. We've deviated on some good areas of regulation and financial services. And we really don't want to be part of any move to take us back closer to the European Union. The governments say that they do recognize... that and they don't intend to put financial services on the table when they renegotiate their relationship with the EU but it's a fascinating

about term but it's you know just shows how pragmatic the city is and how important it is and how powerful it is and how capable it is in finding its own way in the world Christian, thank you for that. Enjoy your weekend. I look forward to seeing you in the Garden Shed on Monday. Christian May is Editor-in-Chief at City A and the time is 7.40. Julian, I will come to you for your call, but it is a related business story. I'm going to stay with that if I can and pick up on this idea.

And we've heard already, and we've already told you, that stores such as Gregg's now saying they're suffering as a result of these weight jabs. Indeed, companies such as Marks & Spencer's and the Co-op now launching ranges of nutrient-dense food. because they say some of their customers are obviously not eating as much, so they want to get the nutrients into them. Well, let's turn to an expert in this field. Paul Foster is a Michelin star chef turned content creator.

But he had to close his fine dining restaurant, Salt, in Stratford-upon-Avon last year and joins me now. Thanks for coming on, sir. What do you, as a chef and a former restaurateur... What do you notice about this increasing, what seems to be fixation, with Ozempic, Manjaro and these drugs? Morning to you. Morning. How are you? Thanks for having me on. Not at all.

Yeah, well, what I noticed anecdotally matches the data, really. More and more people requesting smaller portions, or they're eating out less.

and when they did eat out they were wanting smaller portions and then in my area of hospitality which is a smaller niche area within michelin star and taster menu it's not something that that we really do it's you know not healthy food it's flavorsome it's delicious it's food that's meant for special occasions so adapting that is very difficult it's a cultural shift something that the industry has to adapt for because it's something that the government

can't directly control. But I mean, there's said to be about 2.5 million people on the jabs, which is what, 5% of the adult population. so that's that's a huge huge shift and you know unfortunately something you you have to look at as a restaurateur Won't be surprised to hear I'm no stranger to restaurants. If you can see me on the video screen, I enjoy it. I'll tell you what I have noticed now in restaurants in London.

is that often people, I'm going to call it a doggy bag, I'm sure you have something far grander than that, but they buy a nice meal, a big bowl of pasta or whatever it might be, they can't actually finish it, so some really nice restaurants now accept that they're going to get them like one of those plastic takeaway trays and you take it home for dinner or whatever it might be. Yeah, yeah. That was something that...

Very begrudging. As chefs, we're very stubborn. I know, I can imagine. It's all about us and our egos. So it's difficult to send your food away. And there's also sort of food safety implications of that as well. If people aren't reheating it properly, you know,

have food poisoning etc so there's a lot of different things to consider with sending food away i can't empathize with i've lost four stone myself this year but naturally oh well done gosh i think that's from lack of stress of owning a restaurant personally Yeah, so I can appreciate where people are coming from and being more health conscious. But for me, restaurants like this are a special occasion thing.

You don't really want to change that if you're going out for a grand three, four, five hour experience. Lastly, got to get a word from you on what we understand will be the U-turn from the Chancellor on pubs and people in, perhaps not in your sector so much now, you're no longer a restaurateur, but people with hotels. with restaurants, with cafes, saying, well, hang on, what about the rest of us? A word from you on that before I let you go, Paul.

And I think there needs to be a massive, massive switch, to be honest. The hospitality industry brings in 90 billion to the UK economy, and it's just getting harder and harder. And when the government put more and more pressure on with business rates and tax and all the... costs. Pubs are closing at an alarming rate and that will just impact every other area of the hospitality industry but it impacts the high-end, the mid-end and the low-end and it's very tragic at the moment.

I'm not directly in the industry anymore but I have been since I was five years old. I love the industry and we need it to continue. Paul, join speak with you. Thank you. Look after yourself, sir. Paul Foster, Michelin star chef to content creator, 744. Julia and Bromley, you want a comment on the shooting in Minneapolis? Julia, what do you want to tell us? Good morning. Good morning. I just...

Thank you. I find the whole thing totally shocking. But I think my takeaway from all of it is the gradual acceptance over the last 10 years. of when you can see something videoed, recorded, clearly in front of you and everybody all around the world will see these videos of this lady getting in her car, moving away from the ice. agents and them shooting her. But the really, really terrifying thing is that now people will come along, look at that video and say that didn't happen.

And I think we kind of assumed with human psychology 20 years ago that if you were presented with the facts, that there would be no way of getting out of that. And I think somewhere along the line, and I think the Trump... administration would have to bear some responsibility for this, is that arguing with the truth has become increasingly normal. Don't you think social media plays a role in that though, Julia?

Social media is massively responsible because you are constantly, the amount of times that I have been given a quarter of a story or a tenth of a story, I will then think about it as if I have the whole picture. as will many other people. And then you'll come back to it if you are lucky enough and you'll deep dive into the actual facts and you will find out that actually that was only a minuscule part of it.

sounds ridiculous or terrifying but like so many things that have been put on social media especially young people I'm constantly reminding my children in their 20s look at you have to do research you can't just go with the first big headline or the biggest voice. You actually have to go away and look at it in the round. And that is good quality journalism, proper investigation into the facts. This just...

Well, it was a rush to judgment. I mean, I don't think the poor woman was probably even at the funeral home before everyone had decided exactly what had happened, and I think that is in part 24-hour media, so I'm partly guilty, but very much, of course, social media as well. There's just, we've all decided what's right and what's wrong without actually studying anything. Judy makes some very good points. I had to leave it there because we're late already. It's jumbo time, 7.47.

Call 0345 6060 973. Nine minutes before eight, so were you ready for Goretti? We'll continue to talk about the storm. Is it fortunately now? The worst is over, although if you're listening... sort of to align effectively across the middle of the country. If you're listening to the east of that, I'm afraid you're still going to be in for some rain, but the winds have abated from...

Suggestions confirmed at 99 miles an hour. Suggestions it hit 110 plus. We'll come back to that conversation. So we need some good news and the government says they've got some. They're talking about how families are around £1,400 better off.

if taking out a typical mortgage product. More details now for Labour MP, indeed chair of the party, minister without portfolio, Anna Turley, who joins him now. Minister, thank you for coming on the show. Run us through these figures that you and your colleagues are putting out this morning. Good morning to you.

Good morning to you. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, we're really pleased about this news. It's really positive that costs have basically fallen for the average mortgage by almost £1,400 since the election. So that's really important to put money back into people's pockets when they're thinking about...

Can they save for a holiday? Can they get through, pay the bills? Can they look after their kids, get food on the table? This will make a huge difference. And we know that's working out approximately £114 a month for people that's back in their pockets. When we took power in 2024...

the average fixed mortgage was £1,185 per month and it's now £1,071. So that every penny is going to make a real difference to people at a time where we know people are facing a cost of living challenge. So we're really pleased to see this.

news today. But I thought this was down to the Bank of England, which is, of course, independent from the government, isn't it? Have I got that wrong? Well, no, not so. I mean, you look at the impact, for example, of Liz Truss's mini-budget and... Oh, God, are we going back... Oh, God. Is people still paying the mortgage? Well, let's go back to Mrs Thatcher, shall we? I mean, really, are we still going to go back to that, Minister?

But people are still paying mortgages that had a knock-on effect. If you took out a fixed-rate mortgage, then you're still going to be paying the disastrous thousands of extra pounds that this trust piled on. If you'll agree, the Bank of England, not the government, sets the interest rate.

How can you claim credit? How can the government claim credit for this? Well, it's part of our broader attempt to manage the economy, stabilise the economy. Stabilise the economy? You're aware what the last GDP figure was? Well, we're in a situation where the priority for us is putting money back into people's pockets. But you are aware what the last GDP figure was, are you? Could you tell me, Nick? Do fill me in if you would, yeah. Okay.

I thought perhaps you might have known that, seeing as you're trumpeting the fact that the Bank of England have brought our mortgages down. The last GDP ago, the economy contracted by 0.1%. So how are you telling me that things are only going great financially? I don't get it.

Well, the reality is it's about what people can feel in their pockets. And that's the priority for us. So when I think about somebody waking up in the morning and they've got to get their kids to school, we're thinking about the investment in across everything from public services. So say, for example, someone getting their children to school. might involve bus and train travel, those prices have gone up as well. Not in parts of London, train travel will increase of course.

Across the country, it's really important that we're freezing train fares, we're freezing prescription charges, we're putting in more nursery care for people, 30 hours free nursery care. We're bringing in breakfast clubs to help that mum get her kids to school so that she can then get to...

work these are the things that having a huge impact on people's lives more universal free school meals these are bringing up say the minimum wage this is really making an impact to people's lives and that's our priority but you will be aware minister not everyone has a mortgage not everyone can

afford to buy a house a lot of people are as you're probably aware in rental a lot of people sadly can't even get a home so how are they being assisted by a government that's allowed growth to contract by 0.1 percent and business confidence to an all-time low all-time low last autumn.

One of the things we've done, particularly for renters, people who are renting, is bringing our renters' rights bill, which is giving people more security. So making sure people can't just be turfed out of their home at a moment's notice, that rents can't be driven up. We're putting in those protections and measures to support people.

take the broader steps to stabilise the economy, to grow the economy. You're not growing the economy. I'm sorry to counter you. You're not. It's going backwards. It contracted. That's not growth. I'm surprised you didn't know that figure. It's going backwards, Minister.

We've seen wages rise more under this government. They did it under 10 years under the Conservatives. And that's the reality that people see and feel in their pockets. It's about giving them money to spend. Do you honestly think my listeners feel better off currently?

I know it's a really challenging time for people. I'm not going to lie that. You know, I live and breathe in my community and I talk to people all the time. I know things are really tough, but the reality is, you know, we have a huge amount of work to do. People voted not just to get more money into their...

but to turn around public services as well. We know the NHS was on its knees, so we had to do a stabilising budget that invests in our public services. We've got to sort out everything from special educational needs in schools to, say, helping children get to school, not be hungry.

And this is the scale of what we're having to deal with. Revitalising communities by investing where areas have had no investment with no play parks, no street furniture. There is a huge amount to be done to rebuild the social and public infrastructure in this country. And that's what...

our priority has been as a government. Last minute or so together, Minister, you mentioned the budget. Can you confirm now that the government is to U-turn over this additional pub tax or hospitality tax, as it's called? Well, I can absolutely confirm the Chancellor has commissioned some work to examine this and work with the sector to do that. So I'm afraid I'm not okay with the specifics of what's going to be announced.

Why didn't she commission that prior to announcing the moves? Why announce this and then I read, because of hostility, you then commission work. Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Well, I think, you know, the context that pubs are facing is really, really challenging because we know they had that independent valuation that's been a huge boost since COVID.

It's important that we get this right. And, you know, so the reality is if we have to shift our position and re-evaluate the support package, and let's not forget, you know, in that budget, we've put in £4.3 billion to support pubs. and small businesses to protect them from some of these post-COVID changes. But if more needs to be done, as I said, the Chancellor has commissioned that work. But why wasn't the work commissioned, I ask again, prior to the budget?

Well, because a huge amount would have been done, of course, but the reality is we put in place a big package because we knew how difficult and challenging the situation is for pubs in the hospitality sector. And that's why we put in 4.3 billion pounds of support to help people with their bills, to help. them you know with support we're looking at everything from kind of regulation red tape we're trying to do our best to support small businesses like pubs

because we know they're vital for our community and our economy, and the Chancellor wants to make sure that we get this right. So that's why she's commissioned this work, and we'll be hearing shortly. Yes, so if the business rates, if there is a reverse for pubs, you won't be surprised to hear that hoteliers, restaurateurs,

those with cafes, those in the hospitality sector, want the same treatment. Can you confirm they'll get it? I can't confirm that at all, you know. Will there be more work done to review that?

Well, the reality is it's challenging for everyone, every sector. This is the climate that we're facing and this government wants to support everyone. The biggest thing we can do, as I said... What about these hoteliers, the restaurateurs and the cafe owners? Are they going to get similar treatment to pub owners? is.

We have to look at that. The reality for now is that we want to support every small business, whatever sector they're in. I mean, I live here in an industrial area where we have to support also the chemical industry, the steel sector, the automotive sector. We have a huge budget.

and get the economy back on its feet and the priority for us is getting more money in people's pockets because if people have money in their pockets they can go out and spend it on a friday night in these pubs in these restaurants and that's priority for us lastly a number of the newspapers administered

the amount of U-turns we've had under your relatively new government, family farm tax, increasing income tax, welfare reforms, employment rights bill, pubs as well. Do you get giddy with all these U-turns? Well, policy always changes and develops over time and nothing is ever set in aspects. And I think it's really easy just to say, well, this is a U-turn. I don't buy that. Sorry, you don't see this pubs as a U-turn?

No, it's about getting the policy right. And this is always going to happen. Government and policymaking is a moving feast all the time. You're going to shift. You're going to change. You've got to listen to people. And our priority is to listen to our constituents. Listen to businesses and make sure that we get things right. So telling the sector their business rates are going to rise and then telling them they're not, that's not a U-turn in your book.

Their business rates are independently valued. So that was going to happen as a result of coming out of COVID. Plus the relief that we put in place for COVID was going to come to an end. So we've moved a lot. in the budget to try and support them through this process if more needs to be done we'll look at that and we keep every policy under review and it's a sign of a confident government that is willing to listen to the public take the right decisions and not just plow on ideologically

I don't know. I'm about to ask my listeners. But lastly, then, you will say a government that's committed or performed 11 U-turns is a government that's in a position of power and strength, is it, Minister? Policies change all the time. I don't see every shift in a policy. We can spend the next three years calling every shift or slight amendment in a policy a U-turn. I don't think that's fair. The reality is we have to make sure that we get things right for people.

keep our policies under evaluation. That's the right thing to do. Grateful for your time. Thank you, Labour Party Chair, Minister Without Portfolio, Anna Turley. Thank you for your input talking about those mortgages and taking us to eight o'clock for the LBC News headlines.

This is LBC from Global, leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferrari at breakfast. 25 minutes after eight on Friday, January the 9th, we are going to discuss this supposed climb down on the pub tax by the chance that we will also pick up.

on what we've just been told by the chair of the Labour Party that, in fact, almost like the pound in your pocket, we're all doing so much better. Might help, of course, if you're able to have a mortgage, but we'll look at that and see whether that tallies with how you feel.

In other news, stern words for the government on a different front, on the field or the focus of defence. Remember, the declaration of intent earlier this week between the Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer, and Emmanuel Macron. Our British soldier is going to be fired on, and have we actually got enough cash and troops? Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO and Europe, General Sir Richard Sheriff, told me earlier this week.

Enforcing peace means being prepared to overmatch the Russians, and that means also being prepared to fight them if necessary. So we could have British troops firing on Russian military personnel in Ukraine? We could. For the field of education, where's the...

Primary school, I'll say it again, the primary school where teachers are ready to go on strike because of almost daily physical attacks. Yes, a primary school. Under the sphere of university education and the college that's going to now try and offer preferential treatment to private school pupils.

Education policy expert, Jess Stauffenberg. Where is your proof that kids are being overlooked because they went to private school where you don't have a policy that says that they will be overlooked? Back a couple of years to 2024. Do you remember baby Elsa? discovered in a shopping bag in east london on the coldest night of the year then chief superintendent of the met simon crick told us at the time we were called by a member of the public in their dog who had discovered a newborn baby

in a shopping bag at the junction of Greenway and High Street South. Extraordinary news. Baby Elsa is to be adopted. That's not that extraordinary. But she'll be put in touch with her older siblings who are also abandoned in similar circumstances. We'll give you more details later in the show. call 0345 6060 973 text 84850 Nick Ferrari at breakfast on LBC

To the front pages for the story that was broken by LBC, indeed broken by my colleague from whom you'll hear in just a moment. For the Daily Mail, pub U-turns too little too late. For the Daily Telegraph, Reeves to climb down on pub tax. But just before...

I introduce Natasha Clark. Let's also pick up on what we heard from the chair of the Labour Party, which apparently the economy's going gangbusters and you're all benefiting from lower prices, or at least that's what I heard. But let's go back to the origin of the story. Natasha Clark, LBC's political editor, had that scoop. Just remind us...

Well done. Good morning. Good to see you. Just for us, what was it that Rachel Reeves initially proposed that kicked off the storm? Morning. Good morning, Nick. Yes, so it looks like from the government another U-turn is on the cards. Now, what we've been hearing about from worried firms and publicans for weeks...

and weeks and weeks is on business rates changes. So it's going to be the end of those COVID discounts and a re-evaluation of those rates. They're due to come in in April. And pubs have been warning they have facing bills of hundreds of thousands of pounds in increase.

as Labour MPs privately warning and meeting with the Chancellor. And, of course, they've all gone back to their constituencies over the Christmas break and really been getting it in the neck from those businesses. And now the news, as broken here on LBC, that they are going to think again.

has commissioned fresh research on pubs before Christmas and how they've been impacted, specifically looking at how the pubs are affected and how their rates are calculated. In the last few minutes, you put that to the Labour Party Chair, Anna Turley. I can't confirm that at all. Will there be more work done to review that?

Well, the reality is it's challenging for everyone, every sector. This is the climate that we're facing and this government wants to support everyone. The biggest thing we can do, as I said... What about these hoteliers, the restaurateurs and the cafe owners? Are they going to get similar treatment to pub owners?

We have to look at that. The reality for now is that we want to support every small business, whatever sector they're in. I mean, I live here in an industrial area where we have to support also the chemical industry, you know, the steel sector.

We have the automotive sector. We have a huge budget to try and get the economy back on its feet. And the priority for us is getting more money in people's pockets. Because if people have money in their pockets, they can go out and spend it on a Friday night in these pubs, in these restaurants. And that's the priority for us.

But Nick, we hear that this is only for pubs. The Manchester Mayor, Andy Burnham, yesterday welcomed the government thinking again. He says, however, he needs to go further. It's a step, but maybe again, not... all that is needed to shore up the sector. So they know we'll never stop making that case because Greater Manchester is based on all of the great things we're doing on industry, but it's also based on a great night out.

And that's why people come here. You know, our venues, our pubs, our clubs, our infrastructure, that matters. And this all kicked off really earlier this week with a celebrity chef, Tom Kerridge, telling us about the scale of the problem. Speaking to LBC last night, he welcomed that news of a U-turn. However, he wants a VAT cut as well.

We welcome that. But that is also a little... That's not support. That's like saying a few months ago, we announced the budget, which meant, like, we know there's an industry that's in trouble. here's the budget, we're actually going to punch you in the face. Now, three weeks later, we're saying, actually, no, we won't punch you in the face, but we still know you're in trouble. Whilst we fully welcome the business rates reduction and the understanding of understanding the issue.

the industry is on. It is the VAT push that we are looking for as an industry. So yeah, it means that they've not made it any worse than it is, but that doesn't make it any better. And the Tory leader, Kemi Badenoch, told us that this is not going far enough for the other areas that just won't be covered, so restaurants, hotels and others.

Even if they U-turn, it's not going to be enough. What about the restaurants? What about the hotels? It is all the small businesses, hospitality in particular, who have been hit by Rachel Rees' jobs tax, and now she's taking their rates relief away. It's just terrible.

So, Nick, at the moment, we don't have the detail on exactly what it's going to look like. I'm told it's going to be a redo on how those rates are calculated. But again, we just do not know how far. It sounds like we hear it from the Chancellor as early as next week.

to a celebrity publican, James May. Presenter TV's James May, presenter, journalist, best known for work, of course, on shows such as Top Gear and The Grand Tour. Also, a co-owner of a pub. He joins me now. James, what's the pub called? Morning. Morning. morning sir uh it's the royal oak in swallow cliff south wiltshire just off the a30 between shaftesbury and salisbury selling an excellent range of delicious home-cooked food etc etc

It used to be said that owning a football club was a rich man's pleasure. Can I put it to you that owning a pub has to be a rich man or a rich woman's pleasure too? There can't be a lot of dosh in it, James. There is absolutely no dosh whatsoever. I've never taken a single penny out of the pub, and neither has my co-owner. I've often described it as a very expensive round. But I think there's, in some ways...

I mean, I'm very lucky. I'm in a position to be able to co-own a pub, which is obviously a bit of a fantasy for a lot of people, especially older blokes, let's be honest. And I think we have to treat them, they're definitely not charities and they're not institutions. They have to work as pubs, but we can perhaps think of owning them as a bit like having a Victorian folly in your garden.

or something like that. So you're fortunate, you're very well known, you've got a tremendous career behind you, but your heart must go out to fellow publicans in and around Swallowcliff who, mate, they're probably clinging on almost by their fingernails, aren't they?

I think they are, yes. And we've seen a few closures. I mean, I know that I have to make it absolutely clear. I don't run the Royal Oak. Obviously, I'm a co-owner. We have a proper manager. And it's a very difficult job. But I know because I've seen the spreadsheets, the... The margins in pubs are tiny. And, you know, one bit of old 18th century thatch falling off, or in our case, having to resurface our gravelly car park can be enough to push you over the edge.

I sort of agree with Tom Kerridge. We are supposed to be grateful for not being punched in the teeth, which is a strange situation to be in.

I've often taken the view it's not a very popular one amongst pub owners, to be honest, but I think we do have to stop thinking of pubs as an important part of our heritage or of... vital tradition or an institution or an essential part of being British or any of that misty eyed stuff they have to work as pubs they have to be nice places to go and let's be honest the role of the pub has changed a bit

in my lifetime and we were probably at a point where we had a few too many. We don't need as many as we did in the 1970s. Lastly, James, the government stands accused of ignoring publicans and restaurateurs and others. They're tone deaf to the needs of business men and business people. Taking on board you or not, you don't manage the pub, but you are the co-owner. You've got, I'm sure, a great team at the Royal Oak. Is that...

Is that level of criticism fair in your book? Yes, I think it's probably always been fair. And I don't think governments generally understand running small businesses, especially. particularly well but also i don't think we should expect them to i don't i don't want government interference and i don't particularly want to see government help with these things i do want them to not punch us in the face as tom was saying but i don't

I don't really look to governments for moral, financial guidance, spiritual guidance or anything like that. I just want them to organise the hospitals and the park benches and mend the potholes. question i never thought i'd ask anybody how do you distill gin you've got this is called james's gin is that right james gin yes well um gin is technically i mean james started as a a bit of a bit of an experiment really to make a gin for the Royal Oak.

in Swallowcliffe, just off the A30 between Sharsby and Salisbury. But it sort of blew up. What was that road again? Just off the A30, just north of the A30, right between Sharsby and Salisbury. yeah so we made the gin to sell in the pub but we also put it online because we made slightly too much uh and it sold out very quickly so we kept going and it's now turned into

It's turned into a proper business. But to answer your question, gin is technically a rectification. It starts off as a neutral grain spirit, which is basically vodka. Right. Flavorless vodka. And then it's redistilled with...

botanicals amongst which has to be juniper in order for it to be gin and then other things which give it its distinct nose and flavors and all those other things that the drinks ball go on about and at the end of that you've got gin. And do you supply Clarkson's pub with it? No. Has he asked? No. And what would happen if he did? Well, he can have some, of course, but I don't serve his lager in my pub, so it's a stalemate.

Look after yourself. Good speaking with you. Thank you very much. James May, good having you on the show. Of course, known for work on Top Gear, the Grand Tour, but also, I think there's a pub called the Royal Oaks, somewhere near Swallowcliffe, near Salisbury. Cambori, actually, I'm going to hear from the heart of London business.

disalliance, what it means, and then put into you those comments that apparently, according to that chair of the Labour Party, it's almost, you've never had it so good? Let's broaden the conversation out as regards the whole hospitality sector. It looks like relief is on the way of Republicans, but what of restaurateurs?

Cafe owners, hoteliers. Ross Morgan, CEO of Heart of London Business Alliance. Now, they act for more than 500 businesses in the heart of London's West End and joins me now. Thank you for hanging on. I hope I've not inconvenienced your morning by my extended conversation with James May. We'll talk a little bit about... pubs, but I'm thinking of the West End and the restaurants that I go to and the cafes and indeed the hotels. What will they be saying to you? Ross, morning.

Good morning. As you can imagine, they will also be asking and they have been asking for help for some time now. I think the big challenge here is that you cannot fix this. problem one sector or one business at the time and that's what government seems to try to do so those who shout the loudest they then react and respond to it and you know in fairness to the pubs they've done an excellent job

That will be followed by hotels. What comes next? And I think the reality is that all businesses need a lifeline at this point in time, especially the pubs. I recognise that. But we need the entire ecosystem to work. And the single biggest problem is government is trying to add sticky plasters. rather than actually commit to their manifesto pledge, which was to reform business rates. And we have a solution for that and we've been engaging with government on that.

You talk about a lifeline. In your view, how many of the issues, how much of the dilemma in which many businesses find themselves is of the government's own making? Because obviously they can't control overall costs, I understand that. But things such as national insurance and others, surely they're not...

architect of their own misfortune here absolutely and it's also like the timing so you know businesses have faced the the wage increases the national insurance hikes etc those were introduced by government now Most businesses, they will want to employ good people and they will want to pay them good money. But it's the combination of all of these things happening at the same time.

That was only a few months ago. And now on top of that, and some are still struggling and still in survival mode post-pandemic. And now on top of that, you've got these huge hikes that are just unsustainable for business. And we're just seeing more and more, unfortunately, businesses closing. So the headlines that say that it's a U-turn too late, that's because we've had hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs as a consequence.

of the decisions the government have made over the last year and the forthcoming decisions. They have to fix this system once and for all. Ross, thanks again for your time this morning. I hope I have an inconvenience of your day by getting to you a little later than we planned. Ross Morgan, CEO of Heart of London Business Alliance.

acting for around 500 businesses in the heart of London's West End. Guy, I'm going to take your call on that in a moment, but I just want to come back to something we heard about half an hour ago, a little under half an hour ago. I was speaking with the Labour Party chair, minister of that portfolio, Anna Turley, and she told me how the government is making life better.

Well, the reality is it's about what people can feel in their pockets, and that's the priority for us. So when I think about somebody waking up in the morning and they've got to get their kids to school, we're thinking about the investment across everything from public services. So say, for example, someone... Getting their children to school. might involve bus and train travel, those prices have gone up as well. We've frozen those. Not in parts of London, train travel will increase, of course.

Across the country, it's really important that we're freezing train fares, we're freezing prescription charges, we're putting in more nursery care for people, 30 hours free nursery care. We're bringing in breakfast clubs to help that mum get her kids to school so that she can then get to work. work these are the things that having a huge impact on people's lives more universal free school meals these are bringing up say the minimum wage this is really making an impact to people's lives

Perhaps I've been out in the cold too long, but that's not the United Kingdom I recognise currently. Is it the one you recognise, Guy and Cleethorpe? Good morning. Good morning, Nick. Yeah, no, it's interesting. You don't need coffee to get your energy levels up in the morning. You just need to listen to a minister on your show.

Okay, what's she done to your adrenaline and all your blood pressure then, Guy? Well, apart from just coming on with the script and not knowing any of the detail, it just wasn't believable. I mean, it became a... It became apparent quite quickly that Labour didn't have a plan when it came into power. But the problem is, they still haven't. And they float policies into the press and see what the reaction's like. And then they put the policies in place.

And then they do U-turns. I mean, to be honest, when you... took the list out. I mean, he's nearly one a month. It is extraordinary. They're at 11 now, and they've only been in power for, what, about 18-something months, or whatever it might be, 20 months. And they make a virtue of the fact, ah, well, yeah, the... We just listen to the people, so we're changing it. No, I don't want that. I want them to get it right first time. That's what businesses do.

And lastly, for the chair of the Labour Party to come on and say how they're fixing the economy, not to know that growth is actually contracting, I found extraordinary. Oh, I know. And freezing railfares and, you know, we're doing this and that. And obviously mortgages are all, it's all about what the government's done. Well, of course, as anyone knows, it's the Bank of England that sets that. They're completely apart.

and how the government contracts, and not everyone has, not everyone is wealthy enough to buy a house, for God's sake. They need to understand that as well. And rentals are going up. I mean, you know, the reality is it's... Yeah, I mean, it's farcical what they come on with. And every, most of the politicians that come on, they've just got no idea.

Sorry what it does for your blood pressure. There'll probably be another one on Monday, and I hope you'll be listening. Have a good and hopefully warm weekend, Guy. Thank you for that. Let's go to other matters, and one of the other front pages that I discuss, which is the Times newspaper, Britain's most senior military chief, warning Sir Keir Starmer.

The Ministry of Defence is short of £28 billion over the next four years. There's not going to be a real terms lift in spending until around the mid-2030s currently. And, of course, we saw earlier this week the Prime Minister alongside Emmanuel Macron sign this declaration of intent to commit troops as peacekeeping forces. How many, they won't tell us. But bear in mind, if the figure is 7,500, which is what's been mooted.

Actually, and military experts will tell you this, you need three times that number because you need that number who are there, that number who are being readied, and that number who have come back and are being arrested or whatever it might be. That's 22,000. We've only got 72,000 troops in the British Army, 20% of whom are declared operationally unfit. So where do you think he's going to get it all from?

Sir Gavin Williamson is a Conservative MP and, of course, served as Defence Secretary. Good to have you on, Sir Gavin. You will have watched events in Paris, as I'm sure, earlier this week, and you'll be picking up on a lot of military experts, folks such as General Sir Richard, someone you probably know very well.

taking from these former military blokes warnings and worries morning to you well what they're quite simply saying is that there's going to have to be a lot more spending a lot quicker than what is currently planned And the scale and reality of a threat that we're facing is just increasing every single year. And if you're going to make a commitment like has been made to Ukraine, which is something that I think most of us would very much support.

Those soldiers have to be properly supported. And in reality, even 7,500 soldiers, which is a large number, is nowhere near the level of... as numbers that you're going to need in order to have an effective deterrence in Ukraine. What needs to be done now? Because you'll know as well as anybody, you can't suddenly switch on the supply of tanks, other kit and military personnel.

So promises have to be moved into cold, hard cash. Treasury will be resisting this like anything else. They'll be trying to push it further and further off. But there's going to have to be the cash that starts flowing in because... orders have got to be placed and it's not just about kit it's about people because if you're going to grow the size of your armed forces and and frankly the amount of growth that's been talked about is

It's just such minuscule numbers. They need to be grown so much more significantly. The army needs to be grown not to the sort of late, you know, the high 70,000. It's got to be absolutely a minimum of 100,000. and also a matching growth in our reserve forces as well. All of this takes not just months, it takes years. And that's why the cash has got to be committed. It's got to be there. And the MOD has to have the ability to spend it. And there's a real crisis in the army.

Navy and the Air Force because they need the money. But that crisis, many would argue, is an inheritance of the 14 years of mostly Conservative cold administration, Sir Gavin. So, I... I recognise that actually over quite a number of decades, not just the last Conservative government, but the last Labour government, there's always been a tendency to... take money away from defence that sort of started to change and you know

You'll probably remember the times that I was occasionally in battles, Nick, with the Treasury, because the Treasury does like to take a little bit of cash out of the MOD. And, you know, that... has happened for far too long, as I say, under all governments it's been happening.

we're in a different world now and we've seen with the invasion of ukraine you've seen with putin's threats you've seen with the rise of china and their ambitions uh these are threats that have been on the horizon and some of them being taught some of us have been talking about for quite a long time. But we've got to be taking action and the money's got to flow into the three services across defence.

but also we got to be more realistic and honest with the British people about the true level of threat that we're facing today. Well, let's talk a little bit about that honesty. You won't need reminding that we were told that we were going to Afghanistan by Dr John Reid without a shot being fired.

We were told we would go to Iraq and find weapons of mass destruction. Sakir is telling us we will send personnel into Ukraine. And we're hearing from Russia that they will be deemed as axis of war and they will be fired at. How nervous does that make you? It makes me very nervous and I think it makes me... I think it should make us all very realistic of what we're entering into. And 7,500 soldiers, they often refer to it as a tethered goat strategy in terms of... there's not...

There's just not really the number there to be a true deterrence. We've got to be thinking about what it was like during the Cold War when we had the army on the Rhine in Germany. And there you weren't talking about 7,500 people. personnel, you're talking about tens and tens of thousands of personnel stationed in Germany to act as a deterrent. If we're wanting to have a deterrent in Ukraine, that is what we've got to be looking at committing to. And that is the scale.

that we've got to be doing but that That is a total different way of thinking, and that's not what's happening at the moment. And nor is Keir Starmer and others being honest enough with the British people to say, that is what is going to be needed in order to secure. and underpin the peace that we all want to see right across Europe as we stand up against totalitarian regimes such as Putin.

Finally, a word on a story I'm about to come to, Sir Gavin. You're not aware of this, but you served as Education Secretary. Teachers at two primary schools in Greater Manchester have been driven to take strike action because of almost daily attacks by pupils. I repeat... primary schools. A word on that as a former Education Secretary, Sir Gavin.

What you've got to have is you've got to have strong discipline in all schools. You cannot tolerate misbehaviour. I think you've seen since Labour government's come in, there's a slackening in approach. They don't want people to be excluded from schools.

Teachers have to have a right to exclude pupils from schools. If they don't, then you have poor discipline and all children suffer. Grateful for your time today, Sir Gavin. Happy New Year to you and your family. Thank you, Sir Gavin Williamson, Conservative MP, both former Defence Secretary and Education Secretary.

Secretary. Come to your reactions on that. You've never had it so good, according to the chair of the Labour Party, and also that concerns, I would suggest, that they just have no strategy as regards this peacekeeping force. Nick Ferrari at breakfast. Call 0345 6060 973. 8.35. Steve, coming to you, you'll be the first caller, but I'm acutely aware I don't think I've featured many. I don't think I've featured any, actually, if you're...

notes that are coming in on email and text. So let's do some of this. We've heard that apparently we're all doing so well in the country. Roger and Brentwood was listening. The cost of running my taxi has increased. high council test costs, extra tests, an increase from two to three a year, increased cost of annual medical, increase in fuel, drop-off charges at airports. Do I go on?

When I hear a government spokesperson spouting this rubbish, it makes me really angry. These idiots don't seem to realise that. I'm afraid, and I don't wish to be personal, and I'm not going to be personal about the chair of the Labour Party for one moment, but I'm afraid as a political stance, people are pretty angry with what you were telling me.

Tim says, what the hell is she talking about? We're being taxed to the hilt. Tom in Brixton, this is dribble. The government seems to think if they can talk about growth and say there's more money in our pocket, it becomes true. The reality is the opposite. They are lying to our faces. And this is becoming embarrassing.

Andy says this is just like the Tories, talking absolute rubbish. John says that showcased the government's zero idea about the economy. Do keep them coming. We're talking pubs. Steve in Derby. Is it the right decision? Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. a quick thought on the whole pub situation. I do understand that, you know, these businesses, they need the business rate relief to help them out, which is totally understandable. But I think the actual pub...

Business as a whole is just a decline in economy. Well, I mean, James May, who co-owns one, says that they need to adapt. I mean, if you go to his mate Jeremy Clarkson's pub, you can't get in the door. No, yeah, no, exactly. Well, the problem with pubs is they always used to live on the social sort of norm of, you know, that in society the man would work.

He would then earn the money, come home, go to the pub for a few hours, relax, and then the wife and the children would stay at home and the wife would stay at home. And I think nowadays life has evolved a lot more. Life is a lot more 50-50. don't have that time to just go down to the pub for three hours and spend that money. So I think they need to evolve into more of a... That's an interesting one. Do you think then that working women...

don't go and blow off steam in a pub in the same way as perhaps working blokes once did or do? No. Why is that? I think it's for society. I think, obviously, you're always going to get a few that do. But I don't think they make up the sort of baleful of the blokes that don't go into the pub as much as they used to. Okay, time for honesty. I go to restaurants a lot and bars. I can't remember the last time I went into a pub.

An actual pub. Genuinely. Isn't that awful? What about, are you a regular pub user? No. It's the only time I, because a lot of the pubs run by me, I finish work at six o'clock. A lot of them then don't allow children into the pub after seven, eight o'clock. Oh, right. Mm. So, you know, and if I'm going to go out and spend, you know, my hard-earned money, I want to be able to do that with the family. Of course you do. Of course you do. Yep. Yep. Yep.

They need to evolve a bit more with the times. Steve, safe drinking, as and when you do go. Look after the family this weekend. That's a shocker. I'm sitting here... racking my brain so i don't want to go on too long because it's desperately boring hearing someone on the radio say i can't remember when i listen to the pub but when you consider i lived my entire life in pubs

Because when I was on a local newspaper in Wallach, it was the Director General. I don't think it's even there anymore, the Director General. Then you come to the... When I was on the Mirror, it was the White Swan. That's definitely not there. The White Heart, I think that's gone.

Then the sun, there was the Tipperary on Fleet Street. I think that's gone. I think the Harrow's still in existence. Where are they all gone? When did I... I'll have a think when I chat to Andrew and Ben Fleet. What are you going to tell me about pubs, Andrew? When did I always go? Not at all, sir. Well, I'm very sorry about that. It's been jolly busy. There's a lot going on, sir, but we've come to you now. Go ahead. Yes.

It isn't going to make any difference to the actual punter that goes into the pub. Because they're not going to put the beer down. It's still going to be between five and seven pound a bite. Is that how much a pint? I don't drink beer. Is that how much a pint of beer is? Seven quid? It's between five and seven pound pint. And it's because of the national wage rise. And that is across the board. It's not only the bar style.

Yeah, but we had just had the chair of the Labour Party... Everybody that works in those pubs. We've just had the chair of the Labour Party telling us that they're putting pounds back in our pockets. Does it feel like that for you? Well, I don't see how they're putting pounds back... I mean, if we used to go down the pub, you'd probably think about years ago, if you'd go with a few blokes...

Yep. Let's say it was three and a half quid a pint, or three quid a pint, say that. Okay, go on. You would buy a round, wouldn't you? You'd say, what do you want, what do you want? Okay, it's my round, I'll get a round. But now you can't do that now, seven pound a pint, then yeah.

Well, that's going to be, if they're five or six, that's going to be about 40 quid or something in that region. Yeah, 40 quid a round. My two sons, they don't buy rounds anymore. Now, could I just go on to two pubs that I want to talk about next? Just two pubs. I'll be very good about it. Right. Wiverspoons. Great pub. Nice and cheap. But that's that bloody boring. That bloody boring. Because there's no music.

You can't go in there and make a friend, a local, because it just doesn't work in there. Okay, lastly, Andrew, I'm going to ask you for two things, I don't mean prices, two things that make a great pub. Obviously, you like a bit of music. What else makes a great pub? Funny things on the wall? Nice welcoming stars? People are going in there. People are told jokes. I mean, let me tell you about another pub, right? I'll talk about her name. It's called Riley's.

Right, okay. Riley's, you know Riley's, they've diversified. Yeah, didn't they used to have snooker tables? Have I got the wrong... They've now got snooker tables back. They've got pool tables, they've got darts, they've got other games. And it's working. I went down there last Saturday. Saturday for the first time in about six months. It was absolutely rain. Good. Now all those people in there, Nick, they was all between 25 and 35.

There wasn't many elderly in there because they can't afford to go and buy a £7 a bike. No, they can't. We're back to that £7 a pint. Glad we got you on, Andrew. Safe drinking to you. This comes in from Greg in Dorset. We're in the middle of nowhere in North Dorset. There are several pubs that they've all changed into gastropubs.

Tailoring to a certain class. There's little to do most days. A good normal pub for working people is essential for everyone's social needs. What are the key ingredients of a good pub, would you say? What would it be? Horse brasses on the wall? What would it be? Music for some.

Graham in Bushy, what's the point in Labour announcing any policies? It's only a matter of a week or two that they have to go back on them. Kevin's in Basingstoke talking pubs. Kevin, what makes a good pub? Good morning. Morning. Well, I agree with Andrew. Wetherspoons is boring. I mean, I like a pub. What do you want in a pub? Tell me what you want in a pub, right? If Wetherspoons is boring, what do you want?

I do like a bit of music. I mean, you don't get any music in Wetherspoon, do you? I don't. No, I've never been. Oh, I have. I'm sorry, at an airport. I have. I'm sorry, I have been to Wetherspoon. I have once. I wouldn't go in again. But the thing is, the trouble with pubs... Younger people are more health conscious. Right. They're not drinking so much alcohol as going to the pub. But, I mean, this problem is not just happening in the UK. France, Germany...

America, Canada, New Zealand. They don't have pubs in those countries, of course, do they? As we have them. They do have pubs and bars. But the thing is, why it's worse here is hospitality and... Pub magazine said Brexit has severely damaged their industry. So because of the shortage of staff, food prices have gone up. You want a bit of music?

Tell me what else you want in the perfect... If you and I were opening the perfect pub in Basingstoke, we're going to have a bit of music. Someone's just... Seb's just ascended strippers. Well, I don't think we can have those in a pub. So what is... What would be the perfect part of a pub for you, Kevin? Well, are you just going to ignore the fact that I said that Brexit's damaged the industry? Yeah, I am. I want to ask you what you want to put in your pub.

I'm trying to have some fun with you. Oh, God. All right, Mehdi. Have a safe one. Thank you. Let's talk Russia. Phil's in Penrith. Phil, how concerned are you? Those blokes and women could be deployed. I'm very concerned. What needs to be done? When I go to a war memorial on the 11th of November, I look at those names. If I go to Manchester where I come from, I know a lot of those names. Oh dear, I'm sorry. And how are we going to feel when we have war memorials?

Do you buy the promise? I told you, as I remind you, we were told before no shots would be fired in Afghanistan. We lost more than 400 military personnel and more than 700 have life-changing injuries and have not even gone into Iraq. Do you believe it? No, I don't believe them. I think they're making up as they go along. I think you might be right. Phil, thank you for that. I'm going to give you some news. I'm going to push you. Thanks, Phil.

I'm going to pursue this idea of what do you want in a pub. David says, could we have Jodie Kidd as the landlady? That's not a bad one. Tom in Godstone. Sorry, attentive staff, but not too attentive. A log burner. Kentish Ale, a nice leather-back sofa, and peace and quiet. And I'm 35, says Tom. All right, it's going to be a busy pub, isn't it? Coming up after the news, where's the primary school, the primary school where teachers are going on strike after they've been attacked?

By the pupils. Yes, you did hear that correctly. This was addressed by former Education Secretary Sir Gavin Williamson early in the hour. He told me... Head teachers have to have a right to exclude pupils from schools. If they don't, then you have poor discipline and all children suffer.

Call 0345 6060 973. Coming to a very important story about education, but let's share with us just to sort of lighten the mood a little bit as we approach the weekend. What makes a perfect pub? This comes in from... Am I saying Davzay? Davzay Williams. I very nearly opened a pub in North Wales a few years ago. My business plan was £5 entry, bring your own drinks, we'll sell the food and make specialist drinks.

as well as run like a normal pub for those who don't bring their own drinks. A key thing putting in was a virtual jukebox where people can use an app to choose their own songs to play. You don't explain why you didn't... proceed with that, but that's sort of £5, effectively it's a £5 cover charge, isn't it?

Oscar says, I think when pubs try to do posh food, it ruins them. When they're just about the drinks and socialising, that's the perfect pub. It's shown in a local one to me where the same pub tried to do fancy food, was empty every night, closed down after a year.

Same pub where he opens with no food at all, and it's packed every single night. Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's tough, isn't it? Back to pubs in a moment. But this story jumped out of the paper at me. Teachers at two primary schools in Greater Manchester... say they've been driven to take strike action because of quotes almost daily attacks by pupils.

They're members of the NAS-UWT teaching union. They're at Ravensfield and Lily Lane primary schools. They will take nine days of strike action from this week until January 22nd because of what the union is saying, a culture of violence. Meanwhile, I have to say, in fairness, or in balance, I should say, the newspaper that features the story, The Guardian, sent a journalist or journalists to these schools. Many of the parents express utter bewilderment and say they weren't aware of it.

So I don't know. I don't even know these schools. I don't know the reality. But let's get a view now. Early in the hour, I spoke with former Education Secretary Sir Gavin Williamson. He told me... What you've got to have is you've got to have strong discipline in all schools. You cannot tolerate misbehaviour. I think you've seen since Labour government's come in, there's a slackening in approach. They don't want people to be excluded from schools.

Teachers have to have a right to exclude pupils from schools. If they don't, then you have poor discipline and all children suffer. Back to the newspaper coverage. They speak to one parent who declined to be named. Quotes, my son likes it here. We hear about fights sometimes. but nothing like what's being reported. So the kiddy is an issue.

Lee Parkinson is a primary school teacher in the Greater Manchester Area. He's a podcaster and author of This Is Your Own Time You're Wasting. When my colleague phoned you up and told you about this newspaper story, what was your initial reaction, Mr Parkinson? Good morning.

Well, yeah, I mean, I stand with solidarity with those teachers because I feel if it's got to a point where they're feeling the need to strike, there's obviously serious concerns. And, you know, it goes without saying that teachers should... be going to school and being assaulted at all. Is it something you've experienced or your colleagues have experienced at the school that you work at? Not...

In our school, and I think it's not generally an issue across most schools, but I think it's something that's definitely growing in some schools. So, you know, I work part-time in my school and then I visit schools doing training and I think sort of behaviour...

uh is definitely becoming more of a concern for a lot of teachers and you know you've got to start looking at the reasons why i know gabby williamson said there about um discipline and exclusion and exclusion should only be in the absolute

extreme circumstances but i think you've got to look at the education system overall in that there's so many children now with their needs that aren't being met send needs trauma anxiety and i just don't think support's kept up so i just don't think there's enough specialist provision. There's two long waits for assessment services. There's just not enough staff. You know, there's so many schools now that are on a skeleton staff where you might have one teacher for 30, 35 children.

maybe a quarter of those children have particular needs. So when you've got a situation like that, it does make it more challenging. The teaching that you do, how do you, and I put this word in quotes, how do you ensure there is a sense of discipline? Well, I think it's going to be, I don't know if the discipline is the right word. I think to me it's about having clear routines, consistent boundaries, but also making sure you've got the right support.

in place for children who who need it um obviously consequences matter but if you've not got support with those consequences it's not going to solve the root issues and all that's going to happen with those children it's just going to get passed down the line so

support you know and you've got our support without boundaries because for these teachers as well it's not just their safety it's going to be the safety of other children within the class as well which is obviously our absolute priority as a teacher okay um What does the government or local authorities need to take from this? I think they've just got to see it as a bit of a wake-up call and sort of have serious discussions with the profession to ensure that we're getting the right support.

the services in place that schools can reach out to. And we're in a situation now where it feels schools have to be the answer to absolutely everything and it's just making the job so much harder. And so we need those support. We need the funding in place to make sure staff are there to be able to help and support those children. So, you know, there's lots of things that can be done.

Lee Parkinson is a primary school teacher in the Manchester area. You're a podcaster. You wrote, this is your own time that you're wasting. Thank you for that. Well, keep an eye on that, school. As I say, there's a degree of puzzlement at the school gates when the newspaper tipped up there. Parents saying, yes, we do hear there's an occasional fight. Well, I suppose there are always going to be fights in schools, aren't there? But we're talking pubs now. What makes a perfect pub?

Mon. Mon says, I went to a pub in West London last night. I was charged £27.45 for a single gin and tonic and a large glass of house white wine. With these prices, of course, people don't want to go to pubs. £27.45 for a single... How the hell did they get to that? Andy's in Dartford. Andy, what makes a perfect pub? Good morning. Yes. Nick Ferrari in one corner. Right. James O'Brien in another corner. Right. Nick Ferrari in the middle.

God, what a conversation. Hang on, I'm in two places now. I'm in a corner. James is in another corner. And you want me in the middle as well? No, no. Nick Farad. Nigel Farad. Oh, no. Right, so you've got me in the blue corner, sorry, yeah, no, me in the blue corner, James in the red corner, and you've got Nigel Farage as a referee. Yeah, I'll tell you what, you know, you know when you get last order? Yes. Can we get Hannibal Lecter? He's the only one missing, I think.

And Ferrari. It's a catchy title. Whether it will work, I don't know. Andy, thank you. Have a good one down in Dartford, Kent. John B in Hazelmere. I love going to a country pub. It must have character. A roaring fire. What about the summer? Better to be a free house instead of a brewery owned. I've been to James May's pub and it's wonderful. Almost perfect. Lots of character. Roaring fire. Great food.

Too many pubs just want to get you in, rip you off with extortionate prices for beer and wine, served by staff who have no social skills. Too many have the wrong staff who aren't trained properly to be in hospitality. This government and past ones are not. qualified to govern. Ruben in Kingston. Ruben, why are you worried about the pub trade? Good morning. Good morning. I'm not particularly worried in all honesty. This is coming from someone that does enjoy a casual drink. I mean... Right.

Over the last year or so, we've seen the rate of pubs decline. What was it, our rate of, like, six or seven a week or a day was it? They reckon last year approximately one a day. About one a day, and it's still not hard to find. So I'm not too sure what the big deal is with regards to... Well, I mean, the village in which I grew up has gone from four to two, and one of those I did think closed last year from memory. So, I mean, that's half gone just in one little Kentish village.

Yeah, I understand that, but I mean, they're still not hard to find. I mean, you've just probably got to go down the road a little bit further. I mean, the idea of the desperate need to keep open as many pubs as possible, let's just be honest. There's enough already, you say?

All right, Reuben, you don't want to need to contribute to a purview because we're there enough already. Tom's in Richmond. Tom, what are you going to tell me? Good morning. Morning, Nick. How are you? Grand, thank you. Are you in the pub trade? I have been in the pub trade for many, many years. Are you in Richmond? We are. What's the name of your pub? The Red Cow. The Red Cow. I know Richmond. Whereabouts in Richmond is the Red Cow? Down on Machine Road.

Ah, by Waitrose. On the Waitrose. That's it. Just outside. If you came out of Waitrose, up to the top of the road, I'm heading for Sheen. Okay, I know roughly where you are. Okay. How's trade? not bad it's it's you know it it's not a disaster but the problem is we we don't trade we don't trade so badly however The overheads just wipe everything out. And, you know, I just fear for so many people or publicans in local areas or like...

out of town that maybe don't trade so well, but they've also got the same bills. They've got everything. So, you know, if we had... If we had a disaster or things need doing, things need repairing, we just can't do it. There's just no money left to do, so you will eventually demise, really. Lastly, we'll be about a minute late to the news because we're talking about pubs and we have got a real-life publican on. How nervous were you by...

what the proposals were, how relaxed are you that it seems they are going to U-turn, Tom? Well, my rates just went completely up 60%. In the click of a finger. To kick in in April. Yeah. Now, this is along with everything, you know, your gas, your electricity. Yeah, of course. Your gas and your electricity at the moment are over probably three and a half thousand pounds a month with your water. God.

I've got to get to the news. As we've been talking, Holly has texted, the Red Cow is an amazing pub. The girls go there for the live music. You've got live music down in the Red Cow, have you? Oh, thanks, Holly. That's got to be a gin and tonic for her when she next comes in, or a white wine, whatever it might be. Tom, if I'm in the air, I'll try and stick my head in. Thank you. Music means we move on. To the Cambridge College that is urged now to scrap elite private schools policy.

There's an argument over that. We'll give you more details. A baby to be adopted in the most extraordinary circumstances. And for many, it was 10 years ago tomorrow that the music died. The extraordinary musical talent was David Bowie. We'll be looking back on that career. Those stories and more follow the 9 o'clock news on LBC.

This is LBC from Global, leading Britain's conversation with Nick Ferrari at breakfast. Good morning. It's five minutes after nine on Friday, January the 9th. Coming up in this hour, the Cambridge College that's urging and recruiting and seeking... private school pupils to raise the standards. What is the reality if you did attend a private school? Your children do, or indeed you didn't. Is there something special? Plus the extraordinary story of abandoned baby Elsa.

to be adopted and regularly see two siblings over the course of approximately 10 years. Baby Elsa is now the third child to have been abandoned in those circumstances. We'll give you more details on that. As I said a few moments ago, for many... Tomorrow will mark ten years since the music died. The extraordinary career of David Bowie dying, of course, so unexpectedly 10 years ago tomorrow, an appreciation of a remarkable career. Nick Ferrari at breakfast. Call 0345 6060 973.

Text 84850. Nick Ferrari at breakfast on LBC. Question. Is there something special, extra, additional about being a private school pupil if you attended one? Or perhaps your wife did, or your husband did, or your partner did, and you didn't. Perhaps you've dated a few blokes, a few girls, some of whom were private schools. What is the difference? Why would one very distinguished Cambridge College, Trinity Hall,

Why would it say that it wants to now effectively recruit, go on a drive to get private school pupils to raise standards, and I quote directly, to improve the quality of applicants? What does that say about our state schools? How fair might that be? Under the scheme at Trinity Hall, students from more than 50 independent schools, including St Paul's Girls School and Eton, will be encouraged to apply in a, quote, targeted recruitment.

The scheme will call for applications to six specific subjects, including classics, music, theology and languages. This story has been broken by today's Telegraph. They've seen a memo from a Marcus... Tomalin, who's the Director of Admissions, said there remained, and I quote, a compelling case to continue actively to encourage applications from pupils at UK independent schools in an appropriately strategic manner.

He goes on. These schools often provide rigorous academic environments, strong subject teaching and extensive support for university preparation. He says the best students arrived at Cambridge with, quote, expertise and interests that align well with the intellectual demands. To ignore or marginalise this pool of applicants would risk overlooking potential offer holders.

who are not only exceptionally well qualified, but have been encouraged to engage critically and independently with their subjects in a way that Cambridge has historically prized. Hmm, so what's so special about them? Dr Rebecca Montecute is a research director at the Social Market Foundation. In a brief sentence, if you could, Doctor, what is the Social Market Foundation seeking to bring about? Good morning. Good morning.

A cross-party think tank and one of our areas of expertise and priority is education and social mobility. So if you're interested in and motivated by social mobility... What's your position on a policy such as this that I've just read out from this university college? I'm honestly shocked having seen it and frankly slightly embarrassed for the university to see that they've taken this.

I think it's an outdated understanding of what a quality student is, of what you can tell from what is given to private school students. and the huge amount of quality that they then risk missing out on from the state sector. So I'm really shocked to have seen them take the step. Does a private education... equip a student with better powers to interrogate certain arguments than perhaps a typical state school.

actually evidence that when you compare the a-level grades of private school students to those from state schools that when they get to university privately educated students can actually slightly underperform compared to how they've done previously And that's because quite often at private schools, they'll be given so much help and support. And I think it should be quite obvious that if you get 3A stars from Eton, that isn't telling you actually the same thing about a student.

You have to say, Doctor, with respect, surely someone who's a director of admissions knows more about the pupils that his college is taking in than perhaps certainly I do, or can I put it either, perhaps you do. I've been working on these kind of issues for years. You're not an admissions officer, though, are you? No, and I think that's a fair question.

have been approached for a long time and you know quite often because they've had so many privately educated students at these institutions for years it's just what they're used to. of their resource to spend that time on access efforts. Dr Rebecca Montecute, your Research Director at the Social Market Foundation, thank you for your time. Listening, Nick Hillman, who's Director of the Higher Education Policy Institute Think Tank and served as Special Adviser to a former...

University's Minister David, now Lord Willits. And he joins me now. Mr Hillman, same sort of question to you. Is there a distinction between pupils who attend a private school and a state school? And if so, how does it show itself? Good morning.

Well, good morning, Nick. I mean, all the things Rebecca said, of course, about the advantages private schools provide are true. But I have a lot more sympathy for what Cambridge is doing here because when you go and visit independent schools, as I do sometimes, they feel...

these top universities have been acting in a way against their students and they're encouraging a lot of their students now to go off to American universities and there are pros and cons from that but I would like some of our brightest and best educated kids to have the equal chance of attending the top universities here. And the crucial thing that I think has been missed from some of the commentary on this is they're aiming at specific disciplines.

Even universities like Oxford and Cambridge are struggling at some colleges to fill some of the courses like music, some of the language courses. And rightly or wrongly, we know the provision for those subjects. in private schools and state schools. So they're trying to fill their courses with people who have the music provision that enables them to thrive on those courses, for example.

So, Nick, is it your view then, in a way, private schools have been discriminated against? And if so, why has that come about? Well, there's been a lot of pressure on universities from regulators and ministers. do exactly that although i don't actually think in practice most universities have done as much of that as sometimes people think but the schools themselves are scared that that is happening and there's been very significant increases i say in kids from the elite private schools

going off to American universities. And maybe they'll come back and thrive in the British labour market afterwards. But sometimes we've lost those kids forevermore. And so I would like to see... I mean, look, it's still the case that... There's a high proportion of private school kids at Oxford and Cambridge. But as I say, there is this sense when you visit those schools that they're less interested in those universities than they used to be. And clearly Cambridge think that's a problem.

And therefore, you know, I don't think we should criticise Cambridge for being open about what it is they want to do. Lastly, when the admissions director says these schools, as in private... provide rigorous academic environments, strong subject teaching and extensive support for university preparation. Is he right? And state schools don't? Well, he's certainly right that those schools do very often provide that. They often have dedicated members.

staff focused on university entrance and state schools you know i've got a son in a year 11 in a state school and state schools do their absolute utmost to deliver as much as they can but obviously they have very very much less money per student to to do that. So often the support from the state school is less good. But as I say, the advice these kids at the top independent schools are getting is often don't apply to Oxford and Cambridge. They don't want you.

go off to America or another country. So this is trying to recalibrate the pendulum to mix my metaphors a little bit. Lastly, Year 11 GCSEs, Nick, this year, is that right? Yes, it is. Imagine being Nick Hillman's son doing your GCSEs. Oh, my goodness. The boy has to do it. I wish him good fortune and I wish you peace in the household through those exams and, of course, the day in August. I hope the lad does well. Nick, thanks for that. Nick Hillman.

Director of the Higher Education Policy Think Tank. You served as special advisor to David. Now, Lord Willits, the former university's minister. What is the difference between those two schools? We'll come to that and talk about children. The most extraordinary story about abandoned baby Elsa. Nick Ferrari at breakfast. Call 0345 6060 973.

Coming to your calls regarding this private school initiative from one particular Cambridge College, Trinity Hall. I think it's one of the most established, actually. Adam, you'll be the first caller. Let's just pick up a little on some of the texts. Messages that are coming in. Nirali says, my husband was privately educated from the age of 13 to 18. I went to the local state school in London.

I ended up with a professional degree. He dropped out of university. We both got the same grades at A-levels. We're both doing well now, but I think it's about hobbies and life skills you pick up. My A-level tutors in sixth form and estate school provided the most rigorous environment for me. to thrive thank you for that one uh this comes in from liam in york i didn't go to private school but i've dated a couple of women who did go

They weren't more intelligent than the people I know who didn't go to private school. In fact, it's the opposite. They just acted entitled and spoiled. Well, that was the sort of aspect that I was asking about, if you know, you perhaps, I don't know, dated or ran with or whatever one does.

how that's worked out. Adam in Canberra, what are you going to tell me? Adam, you're on the radio. Good morning. Hello, Nick. Nice to speak to you, mate. Good to have you on. What are you going to tell me, sir? So, yeah, the reason I rang up is because, basically, just to give context... I grew up in Canning Town in East London in the late 90s and 2000s. And my mum and dad moved back into their parents.

so they could afford to send me and my sister to boarding school. Right, okay. And I was quite lucky because I got a bursary fund because I was a chorister boy. Oh, right, okay. The only reason I could go is because of that and the fact that my parents sacrificed. buying a house and everything to get me into that school. And you went from age 11, is that right? From year 4 to year 8. And then I went to a different boarding school, but that was a state funded boarding school. So I've done both.

Right. And the difference is that when I went to the state boarding school... So just to help people. So year four is about nine, eight or nine, isn't it? Roughly. Yeah. And year eight is about 13, 12, 13, roughly. Yeah. OK. I'm just aware that not everybody knows school years. Of course. Yeah. On you go. Yeah. So the difference was that when I went to the state school, that I was relearning probably the past year or two as well for stuff that I learned in the private school.

And also the difference is that the person I may have become... going to school in East London, I probably would have been a completely different person. Well, I've got to quiz you about that. I mean, what have you become and what do you think you might have become? You know, we need a bit more detail if you don't mind. I don't know what it was. It was just...

The way you treat people and discipline and your attitude towards life in general, you just get a bit of extra time to be taught that. I mean, I think I was a bit more advantaged because I was at a boarding school, so I was around the teachers a lot. Yes. But it's funny as well, because...

I just learned yesterday that the school was actually closing and it's because of the VAT rises and stuff like that. It's another one of those closing. And it made me so sad because, listen, that would never have happened to me if that VAT charges... Well, on back then. Do you mind if I ask, you're in employment, you've got a job, have you? Yeah, yes. I mean, I always take the mick out of myself a little bit, and it's nothing glamorous, but I ended up as a mechanic.

Right. But that still goes back to the private school days. Listen, I love my... I'm so into my job. Being a mechanic's all I've ever wanted to be. All I want to do is work on cars, nuts and bolts.

And the reason that is, is because in the last year, the last term of year eight, after he did all our final exams... what they did is they took us out and they showed us different parts of the world and how they filled the car park the playground of cars one day and they opened the bonnet they jacked him up they said this is an engine So did they do that specifically for you or they just did that generally?

They did it for anyone that was in year eight, in your last term of year eight, you're about to leave the school. Right, I see. They did like team building exercises and stuff like that. And if Mr Hague, the teacher, I didn't like him, but... He's the one responsible. He never showed me the Audi TT and just got that sort of...

spark, it gave me the spark. And I credit that school. Let me ask you this lastly then. So there you are, you're doing a job that you love, you're enjoying, and that's so great. If you do a job you'll love, you'll never do a day's work in your life.

Had you not gone to this school and had you stayed in East London, what do you think would have happened then, Adam? Do you ever think about that? I do have a lot, to be honest. And I've got friends that are still back there and, you know, their life's not been so good. Adam, good luck with the mechanics. We'll always need people to fix our cars. Thank you for that. Mandy's in Maidstone. Mandy, tell me your story. Good morning.

Good morning. Just a quickie, really. My parents both came from council houses. Nothing wrong with that. My dad, I think, would have been clever if he'd given the chance. You know, he was a clever guy, but he's the eldest of eight and had to go to work. at 14 whatever so I'm an only child and I went to just a normal school and to be quite honest didn't really bother you know less than 15 and blah blah but

We then went in to have two daughters, and from a very young age, we encouraged them to read the books and make sure they did their homework. And, you know... Why? Without being rude, having been someone who sort of turned their back on education as a young person. Well, I didn't actually turn my back. I just couldn't be bothered. I was the class clown, you know. Right. And I wasn't academically very good.

Right. But why did you realise with your husband or partner that you really wanted to sort of change the dialogue for your daughters? Well, because I thought that education was important and I wanted them to do well, but... Never force them. Never force them, but encouraged. So they had to learn their spelling. How old are your daughters? Now? Nearly 39 and nearly 30. Oh, crikey. I'm sorry. You've got a very young voice. I didn't realise. Right, OK. How have they done?

And so they both went to, they couldn't have been taught any better if I'd have paid for their education. They went to a normal school, they went to a grammar school, they both went to Bournemouth University. They've both got a degree and they've both got a very good job. Brilliant. And what I'm saying is a lot of their friends' parents, wrongly or rightly, they had tutors.

Yes. Push, push, push. Now, I've never agreed with that. It's best to be the top of, you know, rather than the bottom and struggle at a grammar school. Right. And they left. The kids couldn't cope with the work. They had the tutors, but they hadn't got it.

if you see what I mean. I do. I see exactly what you mean. You must be very proud of your daughters. Mandy, thank you. I'm only finishing with you to move on, and I will get to other callers on that in a moment. But this is another story all about children, but much, much younger children. Mandy, good luck to your girls, by the way, of course.

And this was a girl who was found, a baby girl, who was found abandoned as a newborn in a carrier bag in East London on the coldest day of the year back in 2024, will be adopted. That's perhaps not that surprising, but we'll have regular contact with her two siblings who are also discovered in similar circumstances. Now, Elsa, as the girl is called, was left near a footpath in Newham, January 20, almost actually to the day, 2024, two years ago. She was discovered by a dog walker.

Subsequent DNA tests establish she was the sibling of two other babies, one boy, one girl, found nearby in very similar circumstances in 2017 and 2019. Police stress all inquiries to find the parents have now been exhausted. They've done door to door. They've done everything they can think of.

But the East London Family Court heard earlier this week that Elsa is now thriving, living with a new family and with a loving relationship. And here's the fascinating thing. All the adoptive parents have agreed that Elsa, nearly two, brother Harry... who's eight, and Sister Roman, who is six, will have regular meetings as they grow up. They already see photographs of each other and have play dates twice a year.

Judge Carol Atkinson, sitting at the family court, said this was an extraordinary story, but added it's fundamental to her existence. She shares that story with two full siblings. Professor Lorraine Scherr is a clinical psychologist, head of the Health Psychology Unit at University College London, and has focused on abandoned children.

Thanks for coming on, Professor. This is the most extraordinary story, isn't it? For one child, it would be quite remarkable. For three, what do you take from it as a professional in the field? Good morning. Good morning. Well, it really is unique. However, it's only because DNA technology has now become available that we can start to identify this. And it may be that there's other such... double or serial abandonments. We simply don't know. Do you agree?

with the judge that it is, I want to get there, fundamental, that it is fundamental to the existence and development of all three children that they have this sort of correlation, and if so, why? So, yes, it's quite inspirational judging. It's where... child development, mental health and law collide. It's a wonderful judgment. Our research has showed, even when you interview abandoned children who were abandoned as adults, the lingering mental health burden is profound.

What is it that worries them? Relationships, where they came from, knowing who they are. So by ensuring they have links very early on with their siblings, their true siblings. will create for them a real sense of who they are and restore some of the sense of abandonment. So I think it's truly a sort of a Solomon judgment, really. What are some of those lingering aspects you referred to a moment ago?

Well, what we looked at in our study was things like disclosure moments, how they found out they were abandoned as being very traumatic. So in this case, it's obviated. They will know from very early on. And we found that that was the best. Children who always knew, who were told right from the beginning, fared best. worries about their own families and how starting a family when they are adults and how it stands in their way.

thoughts and dreams and fantasies and curiosity around who they were and where they came from and who their mother was and less often but who their father was so all of those can be kind of prevented in a way by having some clarity to the best of science abilities for these children and loving relationships. You know, siblings are good for you.

And encouraging it and enabling it and letting it take its natural course will be good for all three children. Lastly, so you speak, you've spoken with you and your colleagues have spoken with those who have been abandoned. Have you ever spoken with the abandoners, for want of a better word? You know, we've spoken with people who find us. Abandoners are very, very rarely found. Right. We haven't.

And not that we haven't tried, but locating and finding them. Basically, they don't come forward for the most part. We did look at if they were found. And our study showed that... If they weren't found in the first 36 hours, they were probably not going to be found. New technology might change that. Yeah. This is an incredible story, isn't it? Three kiddies over a 10-year span. Right remarkable. Eight-year span, actually.

Professor, thank you for your time. Lorraine Sher, your clinical psychologist. You head the health psychology unit at the University College London. You've studied abandoned children. Talking about the importance of siblings, if you're fortunate enough to have them, your brothers, your sisters, perhaps you've got a bit of both.

How important has a bit of sibling rivalry or siblings been to your development? We'll talk about that. We'll come back to our conversation about private education as well. And tomorrow was the day, for some, the music died. Ten years ago, David Bowie died. Now his childhood home will be restored to how it was when he lived there and will be open to the public. Your memories of the great entertainer coming up after this.

Call 0345 6060 973. Coming up, an appreciation of the extraordinary career of David Bowie and news that they're going to turn his home in Bromley, which is sort of south-east London or Kent. It's on the borders, really. They're going to restore it to how it looked when he lived there and then open it to the public. The star lived there from the age of 8 to 20.

wrote his first songs. An organisation called the Heritage of London Trust has acquired... I think it looks like a terraced house from this photograph. It's a modest property, anyway. They hope to have it ready for the late next year. We'll talk more about that and your memories of that.

Fantastic entertainer in a moment. Manesh and Southall have been hanging on the line to talk about private schools. So we have a very prestigious college at Cambridge specifically going after private school pupils. Is that right, do you think? Good morning. Good morning, Nick. Happy New Year to you. Happy New Year, sir. Yeah, I think it's about time we go back to tradition of where the people that want to employ people or recruit people or admit people.

have the right to choose their own way. All this DEI stuff that's been going on, it's kind of diluted stuff, and maybe they're forced to do it this way. At the end of the day, it's their opinion, their choice. And it's up to them who they want to recruit from the pool of resources where they want to get the caliber of students from. It is, but some would argue, indeed we had a contributor say that it...

It is very unfair. It's discriminatory against non-private school pupils who possibly dream of going to a place such as Trinity Hall. I think what's happened is you have to look further down the line. What happens after university? So you've got a pool of employers that have high expectations of people like Cambridge, Trinity Hall, Oxford.

the Russell Group universities, and they have an expectation of the caliber of staff they're going to employ from there. And if over the last five years that's been diluted down because of DEI, And then they've lost the reputation. So they have to do something to get that back and at least stay in line with their reputation and uphold their reputation. Do you mind my asking, did you attend a state school or a private school?

No, of course. I attended a state school. There was no possibility, no finances available in my family where I could have possibly went to a private school. But that's fine. I was happy in the area I was in. We were heavily guided towards education and we were forced to do homework. When you say heavily guided, was that mum and dad or the teachers or siblings? What was it?

Everything. The teachers were superb in those days. Yeah. Well, they were motivated, heavily motivated. They were very well skilled. We never had a lack of resources. And lastly, you said some of the words that, you know, you didn't have the money. Is it your sense if your parents had the money or if you'd had the money perhaps for your children, you would have sought private education or do you think it's overrated? No, I...

I can't control what my parents had when I was growing up. So that's something beyond my control. But now I have the resources. My child does go to a private school. And why was that, lastly, why was that important to you, Munez? Because I don't have trust in the state school system at the moment, so I've got no choice. Okay, and is it working out? Are you pleased with how he's getting on? Extremely pleased. He's doing extremely well.

I'm hoping that she'll end up in Oxford or Cambridge one day, but... She, sorry, I thought you said it here. OK, best of luck to your daughter. Munesh, thank you for that. Sam in Surrey, myself and my two brothers... Excuse me. Excuse me. Myself and my two brothers went to private school.

My middle brother did well. Even speaking to you as a professional on some matters, I was bullied terribly. I found private school people are very entitled. I was a nightmare when I was younger. I'm now 50, have struggled with my health and struggle for money. Is it the way the cards are dealt?

We'll continue our conversation about the benefits of private education in a moment. But as I've said a number of times now, for some, possibly actually for many, ten years ago was one of the days when the music died. The sky Speaking as someone who was privileged to interview him on a number of occasions, I can tell you he had a tremendous, not only tremendous talent, he actually had a tremendous sense of humour, which was displayed in this cameo appearance in extras. What? Back in 2006?

I think I've sold out, to be honest, but, yeah, it's difficult, isn't it, to keep your integrity when you're going for that first little fat man who sold his soul, the little, little fat man who sold his dream. Chubby little loser. Chubby little loser. National joke. No, not chubby little loser. No. The clown that no one loves it. They all just wish he died. He's got no style. He's got no grace. He's banal and facile. He's a fat guy. Yeah, yeah. Everybody sing that last line. One, two, three.

I suppose you had to have seen it, but... Oh, dear, it's got me laughing. Let's turn to Matt Charlton, music writer, broadcaster. How big was David Bowie for you, Matt? Morning. Absolutely huge. Good morning. Yeah, and he kept his own narrative going right up to the end. Yesterday was the 10th anniversary of his final album. Black Star and it was his epitaph, it was his way of saying goodbye to the world and it was all orchestrated and right up to the end.

He was brilliant at writing his own narrative and putting out the persona that he wanted to the public. In fact, the final track on the final album was I Can't Give Everything Away. Matt, I read that he knew he was dying when he made that album. Is that right? Yes, absolutely. The whole thing, the coven just now looks like a gravestone. It's a black star. He talks about going away. He actually says, I'm dying in the lyrics. It's all there.

As with, through his whole career, he just dropped clues to what he was really like, what was really going on. And yeah, breadcrumbs right up to the end. When was he at his absolute pomp, Matt? Oh, man, we can talk about commercial pomp or we can talk about artistic pomp. Okay, well, commercial pomp would be Let's Dance. That's his biggest selling album of all time. He collaborated with Nile Rodgers from Chic.

That was his early 80s pomp. He went pretty much off the cliff after that, actually, artistically and commercially. He did have periods, didn't he, of effective... What shall we say? He hit some rather rocky weather at times, didn't he? He did, absolutely. But, I mean, he was pretty financially sourced at that point, but he was a trier. He always was a trier. I mean, throughout the 60s, he actually had a, he was turned down by Apple, as in the Beatles.

record label in the in the late 60s so he had he took a long time to get there actually he was older than most people when he had his first hit with ziggy and that was his other commercial peak and his creative peak i would say was the berlin Trilogy and Station to Station, which is probably my favorite album, which actually they're re-releasing next week as a tribute to him and to make some money. But yes, he had a few moments and then actually Blackstar, his final album.

was his best album since probably scary monsters and super creeps i would say so that's a 40 35 year gap between great albums. He knew what he was doing. Occasionally he tried and he failed, but that's what a true artist is. Do you think he's been afforded the full legendary status that his work probably deserves? I think so. The day he died was pretty much a national day of war, and the BBC News did a special to him. There was, I believe, a Bowie...

as well. The Glastonbury that year had a ziggy lightning bolt above the pyramid stage. And I think he is now considered up there, as we saw with the Childhood Home that you were talking about earlier being opened. that it is afforded to him and his contribution to music and culture is given an appropriate amount of gravitas, definitely. One other thing you read, Matt, and again, you're better positioned to comment on this.

He was almost always ahead of his time. Is that a fair comment? Absolute visionary. He saw musical movements coming. He saw the movement to soul. He saw the movement to glam. He saw the movement to sort of... synthy pop and the sort of Duran Duran time he did Ashes to Ashes before all of that appeared in a

pirouette suit if you remember on the uh a pirouette suit so on the beach um yeah absolutely absolutely so he saw but he there's also a very famous uh interview with him with jeremy paxman in the mid 90s

talking about how much of an impact the internet's going to be. And Jeremy Paxman's sort of lightly laughing at these declarations. And he says, he says, it's going to change everything. It's going to change. That's my impression. It's going to change everything. It's absolutely going to change society.

fundamentally, and Jack Paxman was just, you know, doing his leaning back and smiling thing. But he knew what was going on. He had his finger on the pulse all the way through. And he just, because he loved it, because he loved progress, and because he loved art. And I think that...

is what people are going to remember him for. Thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Thank you, Matt Charlton, music writer and broadcaster. Big David Bowie fan. It won't be ready until next year, but the David Bowie childhood home will be restored, courtesy... at the Heritage of London Trust. He lived there from age 8 to 20, where he wrote his first songs. It will effectively be recreated as it was back then. It will be effectively a museum. Ferrari at breakfast on LBC. Call 0345 6060 973.

Memories of the great star man in a moment, but Brenda in Sussex has been hanging on the line to talk about education. Now, we have Trinity Hall, Cambridge, one of the leading colleges up there, and they're all pretty good, specifically targeting private school pupils. How fair is that in your book, Brenda? Hello.

Hello there. Good morning. At this stage in our lives, I would say it's actually somewhat fair because the way social engineering has been going in the last several years, it does feel like the top... universities in this country limit the number of private school children they'll take. One education commentator said that that was very much the feeling around, yes, the feeling abroad at the moment. Yes, it certainly feels that way.

school, my kids' school is actively encouraging our students to go to America now. Which is exactly what Nick Hillman was saying. And how do you react to that as a mum? As a mum, I think it would be a phenomenal opportunity for them, but I don't, as a selfish mum, I don't want my kids to go to America for university. I'd rather they're a bit closer. I just feel like universities should take children on what they bring to the table.

You know, they're being evaluated. Let's see what they bring. Now, the other commentator said that, let's just say that you're... Sorry, do you have two sons, two daughters, whatever? It doesn't matter. I have three sons and a daughter. You have three sons and a daughter. Okay, one of whom puts in... And are there a... Private school? Yes, they are.

Two at university, but two at student school. Okay, so one's going to private school, and he, she turns in 3A stars. Actually, the child who went to a state school in the back streets of Sunderland and gets 3A stars has achieved far more... than your child would have done, is what one of my contributors would say. How do you respond?

I respond. I don't think that's true at all. I think if the child from Thunderland has got three A stars and come from a subpar school, then they've clearly done exceptionally well. You can't spoon feed a child in A-star. They've still got to have the ability. And yes, they're fortunate. They're in smaller classes. They've got excellent teachers. But they are still having to sit there and do the exam, do the coursework if there is any.

Have the ability. Not all children coming out of private schools get eight stars. No, of course. No, absolutely. Were you happy with the universities that your two children have gone on to? Did they get the universities they wanted? They got the... You know, everyone applies to five. They got one of them each. In fact, my daughter got her top. But my son did not, no. And in fact, he got several rejections.

Right. OK. Even though he's predicted top grade. Yeah. So I put – well, I know my children are considerably older than yours, but I put my two sons through private school, and I know what a financial commitment that was. You're putting a total of four through. Let's be fairly crude with this question. Is it money well spent? I think so.

Why so? I absolutely think so. You probably could have bought another house with the money you'll have spent on education. Yes, I think we probably could. But for me, it's the whole package. I'm lucky my children are quite bright. to think if they went to a reasonable school anywhere they would academically do well um So why, therefore, have you committed to, I don't know, what is it, seven, eight a term? I'm guessing. I've no idea what it is. Probably more, actually. I wish it were.

Is it? Right. OK, gosh. So and you've got to do that three times and you've got to pay tax out of that. Sorry, three terms. You've got four children. I think you could have bought two houses. So if your kids are bright anyway. Why not let them go to the local state school in whichever part of Sussex you're in?

This is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but everything else that's offered, the sport, the music, the drama, the type of children they're in school with, and I'm not saying people in state schools don't want to learn, but they pretty much all want to learn. They all have parents who have invested so much.

much they are invested in doing the best for their children and I'm really not saying this doesn't happen in the state school don't get me wrong but it's just an environment where they are lucky let's be honest they are lucky they're fortunate it's an environment built for them to thrive yeah were you privately educated i was and your husband or partner he was not no okay okay but he he's um he's american and he obviously went to school in america

I don't know how different it is over there. And lastly, when you explain to him how the education system breaks down in the UK as opposed to the US, was he amazed? Was he disappointed? How did he react? I think he's amazed. In that, in America, they absolutely, at every stage, whether you're applying to schools or universities, they do take the children based on what they have achieved or, you know.

He finds it hard to believe that in England it's somewhat the opposite. I mean, we are actually told in school, if you come from a private school, it's going against you for university applications. Yes.

I've heard that, actually, which seems desperately unfair. As you say, they should take the right pupil, which is possibly what Trinity Hall is going to do. Brenda, best wishes to you, your American husband, the four children. Good luck with their school careers, their education careers, and, of course, their career careers.

Move to David Bowie in a moment. But just we talked about what makes a perfect pub, as it would appear the Chancellor performs the 11th U-turn of this government. Sarah says they need to be like community centres, serving coffees as well, non-alcoholic drinks, snacks, providing games, and a snug...

with books for the old. Michael in Kent points out it's cheaper and more enjoyable to stay at home with a bottle or two and watch Netflix. Cinemas are expensive. The two together in one evening with a pub is ridiculously expensive. And lastly, Anne in St Albans. My local is very busy. It's more from a traditional boozer into a family pub. Wall-to-wall children, pushchairs, dogs, terrific food at lunchtimes. It works for me.

Oh, no, I'm sorry, it works. You need a comment there. It works. But for me, it's RIP to my local boozer. I was the local boozer. Right. Paul in New Southgate. Sad anniversary tomorrow. Ten years since the loss of the great man. What did he mean to you, David Bowie? He meant a lot to me. I'm not like a superfan, but I saw him about 20 times. I even saw Tin Machine three times. Hang on, hang on, hang on. That puts you on superfan status. 20 times? Yeah.

Yeah, but I did see him. The very last time he played London, it was Wembley, it was... Getting on towards winter 2003. I'd seen him the night before at Wembley Arena. And then the second night, my mate Jack was with me. And he brought along his secretary. And one of the tracks that Bowie played that night was Be My Wife, which he didn't normally play. And that secretary, just a whirlwind nine years later, became my wife. So Bowie knew best.

Bowie knew best. Bowie did know best. And you're still happy and everybody's great and it all works and we're all getting on fantastically. Tell me it all worked well. Everything's chugging along nicely and we still listen to Bowie in the iPod. Oh, that's lovely. When was he at his absolute best, would you say, Paul? Oh, God. It's so difficult because the final tour, the reality tour, he was really enjoying himself. And he said, I'm having a great time here. I'm loving the crowd.

I'm rediscovering the old tunes that I thought I'd put behind me. And he was just feeding off the joy of the crowd. Performance-wise, I even saw the Glass Spider tour, which was pretty pants. My goodness me. Wow. So I was fortunate enough to interview him on a couple of occasions because I was a journalist. I only ever saw him once, but he was almost a born performer. You could see, and he was in a good place career-wise, by the way, but he was absolutely relishing.

Being on stage, that man. Oh, he owns the stage. He really did. And, you know, he always chose the best musicians to work with. Yeah, yeah. He didn't say, oh, no, these are just my backing band. He brought them forward. He got the best out of them in Carlos Alomar and Earl Slick, a fabulous guitarist. OK, lastly, so, when you are with your wife, who you met through a shared love of David...

What's the number one track that you put on your iPod, or whatever it might be, your iPod? Well, I actually, on Facebook, they had a thing where you could get a shirt made with lyrics on it, and I got Life on Mars. Life on Mars.

What a way to remember the great man. Thanks for that, Paul. Best wishes to you and to the wife that you found through a shared love of that artiste. And that brings us to the end. If you missed any of today's show, listen back on our free Global Player app or the LBC app, where you can stay up to date on the top stories and opinions.

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James O'Brien's the other side of the news. We're going to have to discuss the idea from one listener that they're going to put us in different corners of a pub. We would apparently make for the perfect pub. He's in one corner, I'm in the other. Oh, I'm not so sure. James is the other side of the news. I'm back with you. Oh, wait, wait. Monday morning from seven, the first week done. Meantime, have a safe weekend.