I want to talk about the communist plot to steal Americans' essence. That's right, we're talking fluoride. Welcome to Nice Ashes. Join hosts Mike and Nate for cigars and culture. Let's go beyond the smoke. What are we smoking, Mike? We are smoking. The Tatiana Vanilla. Yes. Smells lovely. The cap tasted lovely. Dude. I'm looking forward to it. So good. Of course, the big, what? The big issue or the big thing in everybody's mind is the moon trance. What about the moon trance?
I'm not expecting moon trance quality, but maybe I'll be surprised. If last episode was anything to judge by. We don't judge it by its cover or case or label. Yeah, very, very, very sweet. I think a lot sweeter than a Moon Trance even. There's a secondary flavor I'm picking up, but again, I don't have a really good palate, which is why I don't live in California wine country. But not entirely pleasant, but the sweet vanilla is pleasant, but there's some other kind of thing
going on here at the very beginning. Yeah, there's something off about it. I thought maybe it was the match. Because it's a little woody, maybe? Yeah, I use a lighter, but there's something a little off. But could just be the first few puffs. We'll find out, won't we? Yes, we will. Yes. What are we drinking today, Nate? Ah, I'm glad you asked. I'm drinking a Lagunitas Maximus Colossal IPA, which is, you know, I think a 9
% behemoth of an IPA. Quite tasty. We'll see how far I make it in this episode before it's just innate babble. I'm mixing it up. Doing a big switch. Ooh, boy, what is it? We are drinking the Guinness draft stout. Holy shit. Didn't see that one coming. Yeah, it wasn't water. It wasn't water. And it wasn't tea or coffee. It's Guinness draft stout. Damn, Mike is serious this episode. Everybody watch out. When he does drink, it's
not usually Guinness. So I don't know what's going on in his life, his personal life, professional life, what have you. But Mike needs unwind, and it's right now, this episode. That's right. Guinness is very atypical for the show. Not a standard. Definitely not a sponsor. But they could be. They could be. Why don't you reach out to them, Mike? Yeah, yeah. Hey, you want to sponsor this podcast with one listener who was also a guest? Yes, yes, yes. A guest soon. Coming up, perhaps.
Don't want to spoil any surprises for this season. But all it takes to make it worth it is the one listener. So thank you, Keith. Thank you. Thank you. So, what are we talking about today, Nate? Ooh, well, you hit us last episode with something that was timely and pertinent, and I'm going to try and do the same. I want to talk about the communist plot to steal Americans' essence. That's right, we're talking fluoride. Oh my god, fucking fluoride. It is in the news right now,
isn't it? Isn't it, though? Alright, I did a lot more research on fluoride than I thought possible, but here we go. So the recent stuff here, the beginning of April, RFK Jr., everybody's favorite, what's he the head of now? Department of Health. All of health in America. Yeah. He's trying to push the CDC to stop recommending fluoride.
The important thing to note here, though, is that he can't really prevent communities from changing their recommendations because fluoride in the water supply is on community or per community basis. But he can change the CDC recommendations and he can work with the EPA to change the recommended dosage or amount of it. Even more recently and more kind of impactful news, March 27th, the
Utah Governor Spencer J. Cox. signed a bill into law making the state the first in the United States to ban fluoride in public water systems. The law prohibits any person or government entity from adding the mineral to the state's water systems, but does allow for pharmacists to prescribe
fluoride supplements to individuals. So those are kind of the recent headlines and I thought let's dive into kind of the history of fluoride because it's one of those things where it's been in The media, it's been in the news, it's been in pop culture, it's been a lot of places. So let's figure out... What the fuck is fluoride? I think it's communist mind control. That's what Alex Jones told me. Well, he might not be wrong. We have to listen to the rest of the episode
to find out, don't we? Communist mind control. And everybody knows how anti -communist I am. And that was not a joke. That might be the only thing I say this episode that is not a joke. All right. So the first section I've got here. Why is fluoride in the water? Is it turning frogs gay? I know why they say. I know why they say. Yes. So fluoride is added to the water to help prevent tooth decay. Surprise, surprise. There's five reasons communities will add fluoride to
their water supply. One is that it prevents... tooth decay. So it's the most efficient way to prevent cavities, one of the most common childhood diseases. An estimated 51 million schools and 164 million work hours are lost each year due to dental -related illness. So, I mean, that's not a small amount. Community water fluoridation is so effective at preventing tooth decay that the CDC named it one of the 10 great public health
achievements of the 20th century. And we're going to get into some of this stuff in more detail later. I've got tons of pages of notes here. I hope we can get through all of it. Number two is it protects all ages against cavities. Studies show that fluoride and community water systems prevent at least 25 % of tooth decay in children and adults. even with widespread public access to fluoride from other sources, such as fluoride toothpaste. Number three, it's safe and effective.
For more than 75 years, the best scientific evidence has consistently shown that fluoridation is safe and effective. It's been endorsed by numerous U .S. surgeon generals, and more than 100 health organizations have joined the ADA in recognizing the health benefits of water fluoridation for preventing tooth decay, including the CDC and the American Medical Association, the World Health Organization, and the American Academy. of pediatrics.
Number four is it saves money. The average lifetime cost per person to fluoridate a water supply is less than the cost of just one dental filling. For most municipalities, every $1 invested in water fluoridation saves $38 in dental treatment costs. And the last one is, it's natural. Fluoride is naturally present in groundwater and the oceans. Water fluoridation is the adjustment of fluoride to a recommended level for preventing tooth decay. It's similar to fortifying other foods and beverages.
For example, fortifying salt with iodine. You know, you get the iodized table salt. Milk with vitamin D, orange juice with calcium, and bread with folic acid. Sounds like a bunch of hippie gobbledygook to me because I still have all my teeth and I grew up on well water. And surely if I did a test, there'd be zero fluoride in my well. I have no doubt, no doubt there'd be no fluoride in my well. Well, you know what, Mike? What kind of toothpaste do you use, bud?
Oh, well, I buy the fluoride -free Colgate Total Ultra or Crest Total Ultra or whatever the brand is that's cheapest at Costco that is the Total Ultra kind. Okay. That may or may not have fluoride. You don't know for sure. Well, it definitely does not say fluoride on that product list. Well, why would they? It's probably standard now. Fluoride. Right. So to be serious. But second serious statement. My understanding of fluoride is that topically applied to your teeth, it does in fact absorb
and prevent cavities. And when I was a child, they did issue me fluoride pills. That was going to be my next question. I remember. Chew up. Yep. And my dentist said to chew it up and to swish it around my mouth like a mouthwash and to spit it out. After like 30 seconds. Okay. So he did not recommend swallowing the fluoride pill. It was like a soft chewable and you chew it up and you'd like soak your teeth in it and then spit it out similar to a mouthwash. Okay.
Yeah. I had the fluoride pills too because we had well water when I was growing up and they were little pink pills and you chewed them up. And I don't remember if we, if we spit them out or if we swallowed them. I don't know. Oh, I remember, but we're going to get into it later. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to get into a lot of this stuff. did not tell me to swallow it. There's a reason. So I'm sure that it's going to come up. You know what? It's going to come
up. It's going to come up. I'm trying to set the playing field so that when we get into some of the stuff, we can really get into it. Absolutely. All right. So there's a minority scientific view. But of course, you know, in Germany, there's a minority opinion that maybe the Jews should not be exterminated. Spicy. Yes. Also, we did put out our very first spice rack. on our Patreon, which is incredibly spicy. So if you're not a
backer, you should check it out. We had, it was funny, we had our only, our one listener's wife, she did the intro voice for us for our Spice Track series that I'm sure will continue because Mike and I are a little spicy. We're mouthy potty boys or whatever. Potty bald. Yeah, something like that. Potty bald individuals. Yes, yes, yes. If our mothers are equal in height and weight,
we'd still have soap in our mouths. All right, so the minority scientific view is there are scientists and doctors that oppose water fluoridation, and they argue that it has little to no benefits and may cause some serious health problems, and it's not effective enough to justify the costs, and it is pharmacologically obsolete. Interesting. I also knew that. Okay. Yes. Yes. And I did, I did look, I did find in my searching, I found several, you know, hometown dentist websites
who had sections on fluoride. And my favorite one was, well, anything in excess is deadly, even oxygen. And he said that like three times. Sound reasoning. Yes. He said that three times in his little, like, why fluoride is safe section. So I was like, hmm, buddy. No. But I also did hear that, you know, oxygenation. is what caused this rust. And somebody posited that the only reason we die is oxygenation of our system. But it takes us, you know, 70, 80 years for it to
kill us. That's an interesting theory. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying it's true. I'm just saying, you know, like if we're going to be talking about some of this kind of stuff, some of it's a little morbid, some of it's a little like, well, is he wrong or is he not wrong? Am I wrong, Donnie? I don't know enough to refute that. Especially since I have seen scientific studies about the aging cells. And scientists have maybe isolated some aging cells that might not need to exist.
I don't know. But at what point are you just fucking with the natural order? I don't know. Fluoride in the water is totally natural. Also, having a massive water system in a city that cleans water so everybody can have fresh, drinkable water in their homes. Completely natural. Obviously, Stone Age people had that. Well, the Stone Age people have all their teeth, Mike. Are they getting the good blowjobs? I don't know. You tell me.
I was going to say, the Stone Age people that had fluoridated processed water certainly had all their teeth. Yeah, they had all the shiny pearly whites, and they were the rage of the village. Okay, so fluoride can be naturally present in water, but it can also be naturally present in water at concentrations well above the recommended levels. which can have several long -term adverse effects. So this is part of, you know, the doctor saying anything in extreme can be dangerous.
Well, yeah, if I eat enough tacos, I might die. But I'm going to find out what the limit is, and then the rest of you know. So you can have severe dental fluorosis, skeletal fluorosis, and weakened bones. In 1984, the World Health Organization recommended a guideline maximum fluoride value of 1 .5 milligrams per liter. is a level at which fluorosis should be minimal, reaffirming it in 2006. So 22 years later, they still stand by their 1 .5 milligrams per liter,
where fluorosis should be minimal. And I think part of the thing that's going to kind of come back is the individual is the individual, and not every individual is the same as every other individual, right? Crazy concept, I know. But bear with us. Fluoridation has little effect on the risk of bone fracture. It may result in slightly lower fracture risk than either excessively high levels of fluoridation or no fluoridation.
And there's no clear association between fluoridation and cancer or deaths due to cancer, both for cancer in general and specifically for bone cancer and osteosarcoma, whatever that may be. I'm not a doctor, so please do your own research on fluoridation. In rare cases, improper implementation of water fluoridation can result in overfluoridation. That causes outbreaks of acute fluoride poisoning, symptoms that include nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea.
Three such outbreaks were actually reported in the United States between 1991 and 1998, caused by fluoride concentrations as high as 220 milligrams per liter. So that's quite a bit higher than the 1 .5 milligrams per liter. That's a lot higher. Yeah, it is crazy high. And there was a 1992 Alaska outbreak. 262 people became ill and one
person died. And in 2010, approximately 60 gallons of fluoride were released into the water supply in North Carolina in 90 minutes, an amount that was intended to be released in a 24 -hour period. So, of course, it depends on competent people, right? Somebody got fired. I'm sure. Like other common water additives such as chlorine, hydrofluorosilic acid and sodium silicofluoride decrease pH and cause a small increase in corrosivity, so corrosiveness.
But the problem is easily addressed by increasing the pH. So it's been hypothesized that hydrofluorosilic acid and sodium silocofluoride might increase human lead uptake in water. There was a 2006 statistical analysis that didn't support those concerns and that these chemicals, they didn't support the concerns that these chemicals cause higher blood lead concentrations in children.
Trace levels of arsenic and lead may be present in fluoride compounds added to water, but the concentrations are below measurement limits. So again, I don't know. If it's a microscopic thing that can't be measured, is it there? What is it, the ship of Theseus, if it's rebuilt in its entirety, is it still the same ship or is it a different ship? I don't know. One of the
great philosophical questions of life. Sure. The effect of water fluoridation on the natural environment has been investigated and no adverse effects have been established. It's a naturally occurring mineral. HCU studies have included fluoride concentrations in groundwater and downstream rivers, lawns, gardens, and plants. Conceptions of plants grown in fluoridated water, air emissions, and equipment. noise. So there's quite a bit of studies out there on it in terms of safety.
Now, that's to say that we're not going to get into some shit later because we're going to get into some shit later. But I think more of those are going to be ethical and less kind of actual safety. Anything you want to add, Mike? Nope. Nope. Background information is good. Yes. So let's, speaking of background information, great segue, Mike. Let's go back to where humans discovered fluoride might actually be. a good thing for
teeth. It began with observations of Colorado brown stain in the early 1900s, where residents with stained teeth also had fewer cavities. So Frederick McKay, he's a dentist in Colorado, investigated this phenomenon, and he eventually linked the staining and reduced decay to naturally occurring fluoride in the water supply, and that led to the development of water fluoridation, which began in Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 1945, and has since been widely adopted as a public
health measure to prevent cavities. I thought for sure you were going to say that brown staining associated with Guinness and cigars prevented cavities. Well, it's coffee for sure, Mike. It's coffee for sure. It has nothing to do with Guinness or cigars. We're safe. We're safe. All right, so in the early 1900s, Dr. Frederick McKay noted a high prevalence of brown stains on teeth in Colorado, dubbed the Colorado brown stain. And
he collaborated with Dr. G .V. Black to investigate the cause of the stain, discovering it was associated with the high fluoride levels in the local water supply. McKay also observed that individuals with the Colorado brown stain had remarkably fewer cavities. And I think at this time, cavities were probably one of the biggest things dentists would see. I have to imagine. I mean, think of all the British people still to this day and the quality of their teeth compared to, like,
American teeth. Well, sure. Yeah, I mean, a lot of sugar in the diet available and not a lot of tooth cleaning, I'm sure. Yeah. In 1945, Grand Rapids, Michigan became the first city to fluoridate its drinking water, adding fluoride to achieve a target level of one part per million. A 15 -year study tracked tooth decay rates among Grand Rapids school children, demonstrating a significant reduction in cavities compared to a control group. And when they say significant reduction, what
do you think that percentage is, Mike? 15%. It's over 60%. Over 60%. Wow. So, you know, and I'm not, I don't know exactly where I fall on this. Maybe we'll get into this at the end of the episode. I'm not exactly sure where I fall on this water fluoridation thing. But when you tell me you can reduce cavities over 60 % compared to a group that doesn't have access to fluoride, I mean, that's huge. That's huge. I agree. Yeah, that's... That's impressive, if the data is not manipulated
and is accurate. Sure. So based on the successful Grand Rapids study, other cities began adding fluoride to their water supplies, and the practice became a widespread public health intervention. By 1960, water fluoridation reached about 50 million Americans. The CDC, Center for Disease Control, and prevention, now cites water fluoridation as one of the 20th century's greatest public health achievements, which, depending on how you feel about institutions and things of that
nature, may not mean anything to you. As per our last episode, think for yourself and down with the man. But beyond that, fluoride has also been used in toothpaste since the 1940s, and fluoride supplements have been prescribed for
infants and children at low doses. So I know that one of our big concerns in our household with two young children is, you know, getting the child toothpaste, where adults, when you brush your teeth, you don't swallow the toothpaste, you spit it out, and kids don't really know how to spit things out. So all of our child toothpaste has zero fluoride, but it's not intended. Fluoride shouldn't be ingested, to Mike's point earlier in the episode, where he said his dentist told
him not to swallow it. And that's why they put it in the water for you to ingest. Hey, don't be pointing out inconsistencies here, Mike. Don't be putting out propaganda. You say people might not like fluoride, Mike. Some people say it's banned in Europe. People say Europe are ahead of Americans. But it's inaccurate to say fluoride's banned in Europe. Water fluoridation is not universally practiced there, but it's not prohibited in any
European country. And many European nations have opted for alternative fluoride delivery methods like fluoridated salt or milk. Or they simply have not implemented water fluoridation due to various reasons, including practical, logistical, and political considerations. It's not a ban in the sense of you would think of a ban. There's not a European Union mandate saying you can't fluoridate the water. We're going to talk a little bit later about why you might not want to fluoridate
the water. But basically, these other countries just have, they have fluoridated salt. We have iodized salt. They have fluoridated salt. They have fluoridated milk. So it's not that they're not ingesting it. It's not that they're not having access to it. It's just they chose a different delivery method. That seems totally crazy to me, like fluoridated salt and milk. Obviously, we have vitamin D in our milk, and we have iodine and table salt. Yeah, but fluoride, that's crazy.
That's right out. That's crazy. Yeah, what the hell's going on? Canada has milk in bags, so I don't know what that's about. But that's not this episode. We'll talk about that some other time, I'm sure. So Austria, France, and Germany, and Switzerland, they all have fluoridated salt, which, you know, those are big countries. And this method reaches a significant portion of the population, and studies show that it reduces
tooth decay. Some countries have chosen not to implement water fluoridation due to a decentralized water supply. So if you've got a lot of people that have wells, you can't, it doesn't do much good. And some of them already have a high natural fluoride content in their water. Or sometimes it's political opposition. But again, fluoride is a naturally occurring mineral. So it's the same as, you know, I drill a well on my property
and I don't have any iron in it. But my neighbor has a different water table or different whatever. And he's got high iron. So he has to do a water softener with the iron thing, right? It's all dependent. You can't make a blanket statement with any of this stuff, really, because every well is different. Even here, they just recently, a year and a half ago, decided to treat our city water for hardness. Well, our water is still hard, and I just put more salt in our softener,
and now it's great again. But I dropped the level of the softener down quite a bit from what it used to be. But even with them treating it to where it should be a fine level coming in, you've got all these variables, the pipes and the whatever and the distance and things like that. So it's not a one -size -fits -all. Oh, for sure. And my home has a well, obviously. And similar to other issues like radon, it's very individual. It's unique to where you live, wherever you are.
Yeah, we had to have a radon mitigation system put in our house after we bought it. And it wasn't that it was a dangerous level, but it was higher than the recommended level. So had to be done. We're going to get a little bit into pop culture here, Mike. But unfortunately, I don't think this is pop culture many of our listeners might be familiar with. I'm going to read you a quote right here. I want you to tell me where it's from. And then I've got a longer, longer exchange.
But here's the quote, Mike. Are you ready? I am ready. Floridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face. Do you know who said that? Ronald Reagan. It's a great guess, Mike, but it is General Jack D. Ripper from Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. Classic movie, by the way. Great movie. Oh, it's so good. But this is a movie that's an old movie by today's standards. And fluoridation
is a huge subplot in this film. So the general goes on to say, Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating the water, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk, ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake. Children's ice cream. And Captain Mandrake says, Lord, Jack. And Jack goes, you know when fluoridation first began? I know. No, I don't, Jack. 1946. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post -war commie conspiracy,
huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced to our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore commie works. And of course, Mandrake, or Jack Ripper, denies any female his essence. Oh, Jesus. Where are you at your cigar, Nate? About halfway. A little over half, yeah. I figured you'd be about halfway because I am three quarters
of the way done. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm the one talking this episode and not helping my nephew shoot turkeys. Hey, you got to get her done, man. Man, I'm done. That's not a diss. That's not a diss at all. So how do you like it? You know what? I'm digging it so far. I like it. It's good. I don't have, I cut it very narrow at the tip. Like a very narrow tip. And I've tried to put my lips farther into the cigar than I usually would to limit the amount of stuff
that comes out. Yeah, these Tatianas do have some stuff coming out, don't they? They do. And it's fine. I don't think it's as good as the other ones. I don't know if it's my prejudice against vanilla. Yeah. It's just fine. It's sweet. It's not particularly flavored, in my opinion. It's just sweet. Yeah. Which is sad, because vanilla is a lovely flavor, and I do like vanilla. Vanilla is a lovely flavor and is good. This one is sweet, a little vanilla -y. It's better
than the CAO Bella vanilla, I feel. Oh, for sure. But it's nowhere near the Moon Trans, but it's decent. Right. It's almost like a slightly... It's like a La Croix vanilla of the factory sweets, factory smoked sweets. Like, I'd almost rather smoke a factory smoked sweets, right? If I'm being completely honest. I would definitely prefer a factory smoked. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not bad. It's not bad. It's just, you know, it's a Tatiana.
They all have kind of the debris in your mouth, slightly different flavors, but, you know, sweet. So I'm not disliking it. It's just, it's. It's not going to go on the regular rotation, I don't think. No, no. I'm not writing home about it. This is definitely a... Of the... Three we've smoked in total. This is the closest to a dud we've had. And I'm not impressed. Let's put it that way. Not that it's bad. Yeah, it's not a dud per se. It's just it's not as good as the
other two. Right. Which is partly why we do these. We smoke these ones in these series sometimes. And sometimes they're back to back to back to back. And sometimes they're spread out a little bit. Because as with a lot of the CAO series we've done in the past and some of the other series we've done in the past, they're not all made the same. Well, full disclosure to the listeners, I bought a case, well, two cases of these cigars. So we have a bunch to try. We do. We do. So we're
going to spread them out, obviously. Yeah. Well, and I'm less apprehensive now, having smoked three of them, than I was when you initially said, we're in for a ride. Here you go. So I'm less apprehensive, for sure, because they've all been enjoyable. Differing levels, for sure. Okay. Fluoride. Yes, fluoride. I've got a couple scientific articles that I found. This one's called The Fluoride Debate, The Pros and Cons of Fluoridation. And they've got a pro and con
here. The pros are dental prevention. Fluoride has been shown to reduce the incidence of dental cavities and slow or reverse the progression of existing... I guess. Public health achievement, water fluoridation has been recognized as a significant public health success. And in addition to water fluoride, fluoride can be delivered through other means such as milk, salt, toothpaste, and mouth rinses, providing flexibility in public health
strategies. The cons are excessive fluoride intake can lead to dental fluorosis, a condition that affects the appearance of teeth, and in severe cases, skeletal fluorosis, which impacts bones and joints. Variability in water fluoride levels, so natural fluoride concentrations in water vary, making it challenging to control total fluoride intake, especially when combined with other sources
like food and dental products. So if you have fluoridated water and you use a fluoridated toothpaste, and let's say you also have, you know, fluoridated salt or milk or Lord knows what else, a fluoridated condom, great on campuses, right? Oh, Jesus. I don't think the girls do that anymore. Yeah, maybe not. Maybe not. But does it have to be taken orally or does it have to be in the system
some way? I don't know. But basically, it makes it hard to target that World Health Organization level, right, if you have other sources of fluoride. If it's just water fluoride, they have a specific level. But if you're also getting it somewhere else. you might end up with too much. There's another scientific article called Impacts of Fluoride, Neurotoxicity, and Mitochondrial Dysfunction
on Cognition and Mental Health. Now, this one's fairly interesting because one of the things is there's been studies on the fetus, basically. And if the fetus has access to fluoride, it gets a little interesting. So you've got prenatal and perinatal exposure. So studies suggest that exposure to fluoride during prenatal and perinatal
periods may have neurotoxic effects. Observed outcomes include physical changes in animals, such as fur loss and delayed reflex development, reduced intelligence, increased hyperactivity, and mood irregularities. If it's bad in animals in the womb, and shortly thereafter, it seems like water fluoridation might not be the best option. Especially when you think about since the 90s, the Kind of the prognosis or diagnosis of ADHD and ADD has shot through the roof. Can
you blame it all on fluoride? I don't know. I think, you know, you got to look at causation versus correlation for sure. But I don't know, man. I mean, you're basically mass dosing people. That's such a hot topic. And the numbers don't lie. And there's something going on. It's probably a... cumulative effect from multiple factors, one of which may or may not be fluoride in the water, one of which may or may not be vaccines, one of which may or may not be the chemical processing
of our food supply. Yeah, or TV as a babysitter, right? Yeah, screen time, huge, huge. I didn't have a lot of screen time growing up. I'm not trying to come out and be like all anti -fluoride, but also you've got studies showing that in animals this is... Not good for infants. And you have all these products out there, all of these products, that say if you're pregnant, consult a doctor before consuming. But they'll just willy -nilly fluoridate your water. Right. So, you know, it's
a lack of consistency. I think, in this sense. Again, I'm not saying fluoride causes things. It's just I'm trying to show to you what I've discovered on my studies of this. Because, you know, fluoride is kind of like, yeah, it was funny in Doctor Strange when, you know, he was accusing the Russians of stealing his essence by adding fluoride to the water. And I don't even know how it got to that point that, you know, Kubrick would put that in his movie or
whatever. But it's been a thing for a long time. This fluoride thing. And I've never had a cavity. And I'm soon to be 39 years old and I've never had a cavity. And it's funny because my wife has never had a cavity until I think two years ago she had her first cavity. So who knows? I don't know. You know, and a lot of it too is genetics, right? If you have good teeth, you have good teeth. And some teeth are more resilient to cavities. You're brushing habits, and I'm
a big proponent of flossing. I floss every day. Some people don't like flossing, and that's cool. Do what you do. I need to get more into flossing. I really only floss once a week. I need to do it more. Yeah. My dental hygienist or my dental assistant or whatever, she told me, I want you to floss every day, and it's going to suck for the first couple weeks. But after the first couple weeks, you're going to notice if you miss a day flossing. And that is true. That is true. That's
been true. If I miss a day flossing, I can tell. I don't know how I know. I can definitely tell, you know, being a hunter and a fisherman. You can definitely tell when you don't brush your teeth. That's for sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yes. And I've seen people, I've seen dentists say, or dentists, I've seen dentists say that if you're going to eat sweets, it's better to eat it all in one go than it is to snack on it throughout
the day. Because the sugar content. over a set number of time, it's like you're constantly applying sugar to your teeth. Instead of if you eat it all at once, you can drink water, you can drink whatever else, and it cleans off your teeth. Or even your own saliva cleans off your teeth. But if you snack on it consistently throughout the day, it's worse for your teeth than if you just eat it all in one go. Sure. That makes a
lot of sense. Yeah. All right. The second thing of this article, this scientific article, impacts fluoride neurotoxicity and mitochondrial dysfunction, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You guys did great. I'm not trying to minimize your scientific research, but your title is too fucking long, and I'm just not going to read it again. So if there are mitochondrial dysfunction, fluoride exposure has been linked to mitochondrial damage, including decreased mitochondrial DNA content.
disrupted biogenesis and loss of circular mitochondrial structure. And I think, as we all know, the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. Since many neurodevelopmental conditions are associated with mitochondrial dysfunction, this pathway is considered significant in understanding fluoride's potential neurotoxic effects. There's some research gaps. The review
identifies two main gaps in literature. One is limited research on the mental and emotional impact of fluoride exposure compared to cognitive outcomes. And two, a focus on prenatal and perinatal exposure in human studies, with little research on other developmental stages such as adolescence. And that's interesting because I know there are studies on marijuana. where your brain is developing
basically until 18 years old. And so a lot of the literature and scientific studies say if you're going to smoke weed, marijuana, you shouldn't do so until after 18 because it can, before 18, it can negatively affect your development. Again, I'm not a doctor. That makes sense. I don't know, but yes. That makes sense too. I'm sure there are studies on alcohol and, you know, European nations let people drink at 16 and we wait till 21 here. I don't know what the effects of that
is. We're talking about fluoride. But the conclusion of this article basically states, there's evidence suggesting early life fluoride exposure may have neurotoxic effects, potentially mediated by mitochondrial dysfunction. Further research is necessary to fully understand the impact and timing of fluoride exposure on mental health. So it's one of those things where... you know, what is it? See the forest through the trees kind of thing where, yeah, we've got an over 60 % decrease of cavities,
but what's the other cost? What's the other side effects that might be happening that we don't know about yet? The other big thing here with the fluoride is the pineal gland. And the pineal gland is responsible for producing melatonin, which helps regulate the sleep -wake cycles. And you can get melatonin supplements that help you sleep or, you know, supposedly help you sleep. I've had good luck with melatonin supplements,
honestly. They put me out for sure. But the pineal gland will accumulate fluoride, which potentially affects its function. And this accumulation can lead to decreased melatonin production and can potentially disrupt your circadian rhythms. So the pineal gland is located between the brain's hemispheres. It synthesizes and secretes melatonin. And melatonin plays a crucial role in regulating the body's circadian rhythm, impacting your sleep -wake cycles, puberty onset in females, and protecting
against cell damage. The pineal gland is one of the organs that accumulates fluoride. This accumulation is attributed to its high vascularization and location outside the blood -brain barrier. Some studies suggest that fluoride accumulation in the pineal gland may negatively impact its function, potentially leading to reduced melatonin production. This is because fluoride can interfere with the... well, this is... I don't know why. I don't know why all these words are tough to
say, but penelokites. The cell is responsible for melatonin production and may also contribute to a calcification of the gland. And I think everybody knows what calcification is. It's like stalagmite, right? Stalactite? Stalactite? Stalagmite? Something like that. Something like that. I'm not a cave person either. I'm not going to go down and die face down in some world's smallest passage. If you're into spelunking, that's good for you, but not me. Give me wide open skies.
And a place to roam. Preliminary animal studies have shown that fluoride reduces melatonin and it shortens the puberty onset. And the exact effects of fluoride on human pineal gland function and melatonin production are still being researched. So it seems like it could shorten the puberty onset. At least it says here for females. So I don't know if it has any effect on males or
not. Nobody gives a shit about males. Yeah. Calcification of the pineal gland, it's a natural process that occurs with age, but it may also affect melatonin production and disrupt sleep cycles or sleep patterns. Fluoride accumulation could potentially contribute to this calcification process. So I guess your pineal gland kind of gets less efficient with age, as does most things, I suppose, right? But fluoride might speed it up. So you might have a pineal gland of a 60 -year -old at 40
or something. Who knows? But the important considerations are correlation versus causation, which pretty much any time you're talking about statistics, that's the hugest thing. Is fluoride accumulation in the pineal gland has been observed, but more research is needed to confirm a direct causal link between fluoride exposure and changes in
melatonin production or sleep patterns. Sometimes these conspiracy theorists will take something like this saying, we don't know for sure it might lead to this, and they'll take it as, let's say, gospel, and they just go and run with it. The primary health concern related to fluoride is the impact on dental health, where it is beneficial for reducing tooth decay. But ongoing research is exploring the potential impact of fluoride exposure on sleep outcomes, including sleep duration,
quality, and sleep disorders. So there's definitely some other concerns with fluoride, as there should be with anything you add to people's diets or intake, I think, right? I mean, there's more concerns than just the benefit, which is why all of our prescription commercials have the, in some rare cases, this drug has been known to cause death or diarrhea. Oh, yeah. We saw an ad last week, and it was a 30 -second ad, and 25 seconds of it was side effects, and they
were buzzing. It's like, how the fuck did this get passed with all these side effects? Money. I'm guessing money. I'm going to guess a lot of money. Yeah. I'm going to guess that there's a lot of money involved for whatever it was for. I don't even know what it was for. Yeah. All right. So in summation, fluoride is a naturally occurring mineral. When properly used, helps prevent tooth decay, and it strengthens the teeth. It's a key component in many toothpastes and
mouthwashes. So even if you're against water fluoridation, check your toothpaste. I mean, if you're against fluoridation. 100%. Check your toothpaste. I mean, check the ingredients. That's why we have ingredients in the back. Because you may be taking it without knowing it. Yeah, I'm going to say that most toothpastes have fluoride. Like I say, my understanding of the topic is that your teeth will absorb the fluoride directly without ingesting it. Similar to other things.
And that is probably the most effective delivery method. Probably so. Probably so. And you will get the most benefit with the least amount of cost if you directly put the fluoride on your teeth for two minutes, you know, however long it takes you to brush your teeth. It puts the fluoride on his teeth or it gets the hose again. Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, when it's used properly, it helps your teeth. And that's proven. You almost can't refute that. You can't refute that fluoride
helps your teeth. You can say that, you know, there are definitely some side effects that may not be as well studied as other things. But the benefits are it prevents cavities. It strengthens your enamel, your tooth enamel, making it more resistant to acid attacks and from bacteria that can lead to cavities. It reverses early signs of decay, so it can help repair, even, early tooth decay and prevent it from progressing.
So if you have bad teeth and you are introduced to fluoride toothpaste, let's say, you can actually reverse some of that early signs of damage. And studies have shown that communities with fluoridated water, they have significantly reduced rates of tooth decay in both children and adults. And fluoride plays a role in maintaining healthy gums and help protect teeth from wear and tear.
But some of the risks and considerations are excessive fluoride exposure during tooth development can cause a cosmetic condition called dental fluorosis, which can result in mild staining or discoloration of the teeth, going back to the Colorado stain. You know, their teeth were brown because their water had high concentrations of fluoride, so it made their teeth discolored. They had less cavities, but they were discolored.
So it was too much. Skeletal fluorosis, which is extremely rare in the United States, can occur with prolonged excessive fluoride exposure, and it can affect your bones and joints. And prenatal exposure, there have been concerns about the prenatal exposure and potential effects on brain development, but more research is needed for that. Although, I don't know, I think the animal stuff, I think that's enough for me. But again,
I'm at the FDA or anything like that. If you want to bribe me with millions of dollars, I can become the FDA. That's the point. Too much fluoride can lead to dental fluorosis and in extremely rare cases, skeletal fluorosis, which will affect your bone and joints. So fluoride is safe and effective for preventing tooth decay
when used in appropriate amounts. There are some risks with excessive fluoridation, and a lot of the European countries actually state their reason for not fluoridating their water is one, the cost per benefit, and two, for introducing... what they consider kind of a medical thing to unwilling participants, which is strange because you would think America, the country of the individual, would be about, hey, you want fluoride? You can get fluoride. You don't want it? We're not going
to fluoride your water. So kind of an interesting... This has been discussed many times on the show. We have the illusion of freedom. The illusion of freedom. Yeah. I'm just saying it's interesting because as backwards as a lot of people think America is with public health, right? A lot of communities choose to fluoridate their water, which is basically saying, here, have some free health care. Well, it's not 100 % free, right? Your taxes and whatever. But, you know, have
some free health care. But it's kind of, you can't opt out of it, free healthcare. It's like a free healthcare by force thing. So it's definitely an interesting take. If it was looked into, I would bet money that there was some person that owned a factory or a mine or something that produced fluoride that... paid off government officials to make it the law. This is my understanding in the state of Minnesota, it is mandated to have fluoride in the water everywhere. Could
be, could be. I don't know. I'm going to tell you a little story. You will remember this, Mike, because we're almost the same age. You know, close enough to be imperceivable in other people's eyes. We're the same era, the same generation. Let's say that. When I was a kid, The hole in the ozone layer was a huge concern. And by huge concern, I mean we joked about it all the time in school, right? I don't know. That's what you
did back then. And you haven't heard of it since then, since we were in school and heard about the ozone layer. And the reason why is, for some reason, maybe no reason at all, all of the governments that were important to this thing decided that it was actually an issue. And they banded together. and decided to do something about it. And they actually did something about it. And it actually prevented or reversed the hole in the ozone layer.
And it's done. It's not an issue anymore because everybody joined together and said, holy shit, this is a big issue. Let's fix it. But it wasn't reported in media that everybody banded together and worked together and fixed it. Because good news doesn't sell. Bad news sells. And maybe to some extent, that's what fluoride is. To be fair, there's some other very concerning side effects, especially for the prenatal stuff, that
are concerning or alarming. But maybe fluoride isn't that bad of a thing in the grand scheme of things. I don't know. I don't think it's a communist plot, all Dr. Strangelove. But there might be somebody benefiting from all of this, but I don't think it's necessarily nefarious in the sense that, you know, you've got an over 60 % decrease of cavities. I tend to agree with you. Like, the reality is I tend to agree with you. You don't need to attribute bad intentions.
Oh, no, no, no. To water fluoridation. Like, it's not necessary. Yeah, I mean, like, fluoridation seems like one of those mundane things we shouldn't even have an episode about, but here we fucking are. Sure, so. Because, you know, like, Arfie Jr. is like, oh, fluoridation, bad. So, I became aware of fluoridation circa... Oh, would it be like 2013, 2012, something like that? Sure. For the first time ever, I, as everybody knows, I worked in the oil patch. Yeah. And out there,
Alex Jones was on the radio. Okay. And we would play Alex Jones for four hours a day on the job site radios because everybody loved Alex Jones, myself included. And Jordan, who has been on the show, big fan. Of Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones. And on his show, he talked about fluoridation. And I remember it because he was talking about how it was a mind control, a Soviet mind control drug that the United States government put in
the water. To make people facile and easy to control and manipulate, which you did not mention. You know what? I wanted to mention it because that is something I have heard that fluoride makes you less aggressive. Yes. But nothing in my research lent any weight to that. So I thought that was going to be one of the top things. I even typed in fluoride conspiracy theories and
nothing came up for aggressiveness. Yeah, and it stuck out because a town in Minnesota, Brainerd, Minnesota, famously fought the government to fluoridate their water, and they were the last town in the state to do so. And the Supreme Court of Minnesota ordered the city to fluoridate their water, and they still delayed it by like four, six years, something like that. Like they fought, like the city fought against it, and apparently
they still have a tap. At their water treatment facility where you can get city water that's not fluoridated. Okay. I'm sure people line up for that, too. I'm sure they do. Oh, I'm sure. I lived in Brainerd for a while, but all I got was the Brainerd diarrhea. It's a Wikipedia article. Look it up. I literally got Brainerd diarrhea. Right, so this was a hot topic between Jordan and I because being from Minnesota, it was like, oh, what are those fucking weird northern people?
What are they up to fighting against the fluoride? Yep. Made the Alex Jones show. Yeah, a lot of people think Minnesota is a Democrat state because of the cities, but you've got almost an equal number of... It's not really necessarily a political divide on the fluoride, but, you know, you've got all these people outside of the Twin Cities that are very staunch Republicans. That's true. I don't think that the fluoride issue is so much Republican as it is. No, I don't think it is.
I don't think it is. Anti -government control. Well, yeah, anti -government control. I'm just saying, like, you know, a lot of people think, like, oh, Minnesota, they always vote Democrat. Well, of course they do. They've got more of the population in the Twin Cities than they do anywhere else. But it's just like saying, you know, oh, Wisconsin. Robinson's always Republican. Well, they've got Democrat pockets as well, like Madison, but Madison is not as big as Minneapolis
and St. Paul combined. So you don't have the same, it's not the same balance. It's just people are people, you know. Right. Well, northern Minnesota has a lot of hippies and free thinkers. Yes. And a lot of I'm going to go out and be self -reliant and hunt some animals or whatever, you know. Yep. Yep. Exactly. A huge self -reliance culture. A huge. Yeah. Anti -mainstream culture.
Well, as per our last episode, you've got a lot of free thinkers, and that could be free thinkers on your political side or the other political side. It doesn't really matter. Oh, for sure. Yeah, they're free thinkers. For sure, yeah. I mean, it's free thinking. Free thinking is encouraged. Yes. Free thinking is highly encouraged. So that's... Most of the reason why I'm aware of the fluoride issue is because of Alex Jones and my time spent in the patch. Because everybody
would say, oh, you're from Minnesota? Do you know about this? Yeah. I'm like, no. Why the fuck would I know about that? That happened way before I was a... thinking about political shit. I think it was, like I said, 1980. I looked it up during the show. It was 1980 when Brainerd finally fluoridated the water. So the last city to fluoridate their water in Minnesota was 1980, which was six years after the court ordered them to do so. So somehow they managed to drag their
feet for six years. We got a vote on it, but the one guy, he's still out on the goose blind. I don't know. We've got to wait for him to come back. Yeah, George, he's repairing his fucking... and moccasins trying to pick mushrooms out in the forest. He hasn't come down from his last trip. We got to wait. Yeah, exactly. For him to sober up a bit. Yep. So that's all I know about fluoride. It's being, you know, living, growing up up here and living up here. It's in
the zeitgeist of our thought. For sure. Fuck the government. Well, it's crazy because I remember taking those little pink pills or the little pink tablets and chewing them up. Right, and I don't remember if I spit them out or swallowed them. I don't remember. It wasn't a huge thing for a child, of course. But I do remember the fluoride pills. I remember them, and I remember chewing them, but I don't remember what happened after the fact. You know what I mean? Like, you
remember not swallowing them. I don't know if I did or didn't. To some extent, it doesn't really matter. I remember because my dentist was pro -fluoride but against drinking it. He was like one of those guys. I'm sure he was active in the anti -fluoride campaigns of the 70s, which was common in this region. Like, you know, all of northern Minnesota is kind of similar where it's like free thinkers. Well, even northern Wisconsin where I grew up. Right. So it's the
same stuff. You know, we cheer for a winning football team and you guys don't. It's not a big deal. Right. Yeah. Like I say, I mean, I'm like a registered Democrat, but I'm also anti. anti -authoritarian. So I want people to make their own choices, whether right or wrong. Well,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you, you know? Well, I think that's the biggest detractor or detriment to water fluoridation is, yes, you're drastically reducing cavities, but you're doing so against the free choices of these people you're giving it to. They don't have a choice in a lot of these communities. And that's the issue, I think, mostly, is there are some Side effects, whether they're founded or unfounded, science still has to decide, I suppose, depending on the levels and all of
that stuff. But basically, if you want somebody to make their own decisions, they should decide if they want fluoride or not. And you've got these other options where you have fluoridated toothpaste. They've got the fluoride pills. I guess if you're in Europe or something, you've got fluoridated sugar and salt or whatever the fuck. Milk, I don't know. Oh, my mouthwash. I specifically buy the mouthwash that has fluoride in it. Alcohol and fluoride both, I believe.
It's like the purple Listerine. Because I want the fluoride on my teeth. Like, I do want the fluoride on my teeth. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah. I do. I understand. Well, I don't think the issue is that fluoride is bad for your teeth. I think the issue is fluoride. It's good for your teeth, but we shouldn't be drinking it, maybe. Potentially. Potentially, for sure. And I think that's the big issue. There's no fluoride in my water on purpose, I can tell you that.
Well, yeah. The people that say that Europe has a ban on it because fluoride is evil, they're missing the point. To an extent. Because, again, it's not necessarily a ban. It's just, you know, they look at the cost per whatever. And for them, the cost per whatever doesn't add up to fluoridate the water. Or they don't want to force somebody to take a medical, you know, what I would consider a medical precaution without a choice. Well,
sure. Their number, their CBA, cost -benefit analysis, doesn't bear out putting it in the water. Well, and they put it in salt or they put it in whatever, you know, so. Yeah, which is great, like I say. I know that it's not crazy. It sounds crazy. Well, it sounds crazy to us, but we put it in the water, right? We put it in the water. Well, I don't fucking drink city water. I understand. Nate and I have talked about this off air. We don't drink, and here we don't
drink unfiltered water. I put it in a pitcher that filters stuff out, so I don't know if it does fluoride or not. No, it doesn't. It doesn't. I actually looked into it when I lived in Minot because I had a zero filter. Oh, okay. And the fluoride molecule is too small. I looked into it because it concerns about gas leaks into the
water supply. Sure. Because of all the... poor mineral resources practices of the 1950s in north dakota they have like some leakage not from modern fracking but from the og fracking yes they i mean it's like original it's like any other technology right like you start off and it's not going to be as good as well yeah later yeah so fortunately the area i lived in mostly didn't have those issues when i did move to like watford city i mostly drank bottled water because I think their
water supply is probably not safe due to the fact that they had oil development like 100 fucking years ago. You know what I mean? Well, Leslie thanks you. for perpetuating their slave labor force, but. Right, right, right, right. I know that like Sarah and I, when we visit her relatives, we'll bring our own water and drink our water instead of city water. Yeah. Because it didn't bother my wife when she lived there. Now she's lived in Northern Minnesota long enough. To where
the water in the metro bothers her. Yeah. Where if you're used to it, it doesn't matter. And now that we have well water, she's used to it. And she doesn't want to drink city water at all. Yeah. Discuss her to drink. Like, I can't drink water from a tap in town either. Even in pop, it bothers me. Okay, yeah. Well, we have a pitcher
filter, so I almost can't drink. just straight from our faucet, which is crazy because you've got people that, you know, people in undeveloped or underdeveloped nations that would kill to have the water from tap that we have from tap. Oh, for sure. But I can't do it, you know. When I lived in Minot, people would come over to my place and we'd have water, you know, they'd have a little glass of water and they'd be like, oh, this is so good. And I'm like, well, like, what
are you, what's going on? And I'm like, I just put it in my zero filter. It's totally different. The water there smells bad. Oh, yeah. It smells bad. It stains. Not like iron, but a stain. Yeah. You know, like iron doesn't bother me in the water. Obviously, I live up north. There's iron in the water damn near everywhere. Iron in the water doesn't bother me. Yep. It's like other stuff that bothers me. The mineral taste doesn't bother me so much as like the chemical. Yep.
And I can't handle it. Well, good news. Fluoride is a mineral, so you wouldn't know. Well, there we go. Anyway. Classic. That's all I got. What do you think about the cigar, Mike? I believe I already rated it a two. Okay. That's where I was going to go to. I don't see your rating. I'll double check my chart. I think I filled it out already. All right. It wasn't great. I was going to give it a two. It was fine. It wasn't.
bad i wouldn't really recommend it if you saw one but it's not offensive or anything like that i thought it was you know adequate yeah i think the waking dream or nightcap are better than this one for sure oh that waking dream and the nightcap were significantly better in my opinion yeah yeah this one is uh i didn't fill it out it's fine too didn't put it in okay it's fine it's just it's uh Not as good as the others.
The other two we smoked. We've got a fuck ton of these, though, so we'll have to see what our favorite is. We have a ton of them. We'll spread them out. I can tell you that the listener, if you see the Tatianas, it's a go. Yeah. If they're cheap. They're just cheap cigars with a pipe filler. I did get, in the last inch, I got the
snuff. coming out the end and i just kind of clipped the end really short and then made sure that i didn't put my mouth on the end of the cigar to try to like keep all that together yeah and that seemed to work maybe like a pinhole would be a better idea for them you know i don't know what to try or maybe like a uh because i got my my cigar cutter i usually v -cut now nowadays not season one or two for sure, but nowadays I do, but I've got the little punch and maybe
the little punch thing would be better than like a V cut. Yeah. I V cut it, but I like just, I like literally looked at it and just got the little slice. Yeah. Like the smallest, almost like a pocket knife might even be like a slit or a cross in it. Yeah. Okay. Let's try it. We'll try it. We'll have to try it next time. Next time we do Italianas. But so far I wouldn't dissuade you from any of these. For the price point. For
the price point. This one's been my least favorite of the three so far, but it kind of depends on personal taste and personal preference, I suppose. For sure. So, yeah, now we've talked about fluoride. Nate, you know, he says take fluoride directly and inject it into your baby's spine. Yeah, yeah. That's what his position is. Steal all your baby's stem cells and replace it with fluoride cells.
And if you haven't done that as a baby, you should go to your local underpass and have one of the homeless people inject you straight into the vein with fluoride. Thank you for listening. Was that too much? That was too much. That was too much. I don't know. I don't know. Make up your own decision about fluoride. I don't think it's as nefarious as some media outlets would lead you to believe, but it might not also be as safe as other media outlets would lead you
to believe. So fluoride, I figured out. Anyway, thanks for listening. Be safe. Have fun.