Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Nate. And I'm Mike. What are we smoking today, Nate? We are smoking an Oliva Connecticut. Yes, this we are. We've smoked other Olivas, but I don't know if we've ever smoked a Connecticut here. We have not. This is part of a series of cigars that we're going to smoke on the show.
So we're going to have a G, we're going to have an O, I think we might have a V. I'd like to get my hand on a Cane F, which we smoked the Cane F nub, but I'd like to smoke a full-size Cane F. Are you doing a cross cut on this one or just the regular V? That's a good question. I think I'm going to do just a regular V. Yeah, that's what I was thinking with the diameter. I didn't get a particularly good flavor when I put it in my mouth to wet it, so we'll see.
It's pretty generic tasting, at least, you know. Least initially. Okay. Not a huge fan of the first puff, but you never judge a cigar by its first puff unless it's the fucking under crown. You never judge a book by its cover. What are you pairing your cigar with, Mike? I heard you pouring some stuff before we started. Yes, I was running late, ladies and gentlemen. I have some Johnny Walker Black and some Ginger Beer.
I can't remember the brand of the Ginger Beer, but it's a fancy one that you mix with Soda Stream stuff. There you go. I am drinking a Stella Atua. Some wife beater. Holy shit. Yeah, I don't know. I had a buddy come over earlier in the week and he brought a four pack of Groshe and I hadn't had a Groshen forever and kind of got my beer palette thinking, man, I should do some Stella. Just something a little lighter, not quite as heavy. Yeah, it's nice.
I try to stick to Stella in the summer when it's hot. Yeah, it seems like a lot of lake bars have Stella on tap so you can pull up to the dock and get a beer at like noon when you're out on the water all day. So we were discussing this, Ben. We cut ourselves short. We have to be very careful about this book that we're going to talk about. We're doing a book review.
We have to be careful about the book and I think the other thing that we need to be careful of is because this book is, I guess I was looking at the Wikipedia page for it earlier today and it's not a very unbiased Wikipedia page. I'm shocked.
It's a full on conspiracy book and things like that so I think the other thing we need to be careful about is that we're not supporting conspiracies or conspiracy theories but we're doing a book review of this and then kind of like we try to always do is find out some kind of middle ground or just have a discussion about it. We're doing this for educational purposes, philosophical purposes. We want to see these ideas because there is a ton of ideas presented in this book, a ton.
So it's not like one idea. It's multiple ideas and multiple things so we're just trying to go through some of it. We're not experts. We're not authors. We're not medical professionals and we're not lawyers. We are none of those things. Also nobody has been sued as a result of this book which if the claims being made were in the land of crazy conspiracy, I would assume that there would be at least one person mentioned suing the author. The author was not nice with nicknames for involved parties.
No, he directly. So we're reviewing The Real Anthony Fauci by Robert Kennedy Jr. for those who aren't aware yet. And he does not make nicknames up. He just says who it was and what they said and what they did and he makes some pretty bold claims. Yes. Well, he does call Fauci what, Little Napoleon quite a few times or something. So I mean, he's not one to shy away from nicknames.
So it's interesting because so in the book here it says, or on the Wikipedia page here it says The Real Anthony Fauci and there's a subtitle as well called Bill Gates Big Pharma and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health. And it's a 2021 book by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in which, and this is Wikipedia's terms, in which he attacks Anthony Fauci and his three decades of leadership at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.
In the book, Kennedy offers misinformation about Fauci's role during the HIV epidemic and the COVID-19 pandemic and HIV AIDS denialism. And so it says it was a 480 page book written by anti-vaccination conspiracy theorist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. which is interesting because didn't didn't Robert F. Kennedy Jr. kind of get his start as an environmental lawyer?
Yes. So I listened to several interviews with him when he was right before he announced that he was running for president and he was a environmental lawyer who won a lot of lawsuits and he's one of a lot of awards because he is apparently a very competent environmental lawyer. He was instrumental in getting the Hudson River cleaned up and he's one of the founding members of Waterkeepers or something like that if I remember correctly.
And they kind of go around the globe and sue corporations for polluting waters more or less. Yeah, worthy of cause as any. Yes. And then so he didn't get started into the vaccine stuff until the 90s and it happened at a conference he was holding about mercury poisoning in a river somewhere. Now I can't remember.
And an advocacy group came up to him and provided him with data and he started doing research into it and he actually got a few chemicals they were using in vaccines banned because he found data that it was in fact damaging people. They were using a type of mercury in the vaccines in the 80s that was correlated with negative health outcomes. So it's not like he hasn't he's got the chops, right? Like he's not necessarily a conspiracy theorist.
He did file lawsuits and win those lawsuits and prevented certain chemicals from being in vaccines in the future. Yeah. So I guess like let's just offer a counterpoint there because I've never met him. I've never watched any of his interviews or anything like that. I mean it could be a Tom Cruise situation, right? Like everybody thinks Tom Cruise in the 90s whatever he's making all these great films and then suddenly he's jumping up and down on Oprah Winfrey's couch.
So there's not the say like that he is or isn't. I mean he could be a conspiracy theorist for all I know and I think we're going to get into that with some of the things some of the ideas he presented because I have I have questions but I think it's weird that they bill him as an anti-vaxxer because I remember when when you first told me about this book Mike I was looking him up a little bit and it sounded like his children are all vaccinated and that he's not he claims he's not necessarily
anti-vaccine but he's he's pro safe vaccines and pro right to choose. Yes that is his his position according to him is that he is pro informed consent. He's pro transparency in medicine and then in the environment and everything else.
He is personally vaccinated fully against measles mumps rubella all the things that we're all vaccinated against his children are vaccinated against these things but he is against the current vaccine schedule which he thinks has too many vaccines with too many of these inflammatory agents happening. You know what I mean he's he's criticizing the schedule and he has criticisms about how things are done not he's not against medicine or anything like that.
Yeah I mean it from his book it doesn't sound like he's against science. No. He's not against medicine but I guess getting into it is he's against the if you believe what he says about Anthony Fauci and Bill Gates he's against the one or two people setting themselves up as not only the policymakers but the direct beneficiaries of those policies.
Right well and I don't know how much you mentioned in the book now I can't remember but the way that the FDA and the NIH are set up the people who are on the governing boards for who gets their vaccines passed get to take profits from the vaccines that they pass so they have an economic incentive to get as many medicines out as possible.
When they also get co-patenting rights or something because Fauci has I don't remember how many he said but there's a lot more than you would think somebody that's trying to just keep people safe would have. Right I mean they're directly profiting from the medicines that they allow to go to market. And then if you look at the funding of the agencies like 40 percent of the funding comes from the money they get from allowing new drugs to go through.
You know I mean like they are incentivized to allow drugs to pass. A lot of the people on the FDA or on these boards are all formerly employees of Microsoft you know yeah yeah according to what he said I didn't go back and do any fact checking and stuff and it's funny because I've been reading this book for a while and I know it's only four hundred pages but it kind of took me a bit because it's not like an easy breezy it's it's very data heavy whether or not you think the data is true or not.
I mean it's just a data heavy book. Well and so one thing that is in his favor is that it is so data heavy and it has references for all of these data points. So if he fabricated data surely the doctor that he's citing as the producer of this work would sue him. He's a very rich famous guy.
You would think that this bestseller book that would have a falsified report would be in the court somewhere and now he's running for president so they could take him down easily with a lawsuit claiming something like that you know. Yeah. Well and it might I mean so that's the weird thing is he makes all these claims and you know to Mike's point you think well if anything in there was was false they would sue him or you know pull the book from shelves or or what have you.
But part of the planning in the last chapter two chapters of the book talk about kind of the the germ games kind of like the war games but the Fauci and Bill Gates put on some hey what if a pandemic happens that's just like COVID and then like a couple weeks later it actually happened or something a couple months later it actually happened and they they had a whole section according to to Kennedy about how to squash people that don't agree you know.
And so now that he's running for president their plan might just be all we have to do is call him a crazy person on in the debates and that's the end of it you know. Kennedy's running third party so I don't think anyone's truly worried.
No well he can't run the Democratic Party they've already said they're not going to hold primaries or debates they're going to hold primaries but they're not going to hold debates and we all know well people who are aware know that the primaries in the Democratic Party do not matter because the superdelegates outnumber the primary delegates so theoretically you could win every primary in the country and still lose the nomination to the party so it doesn't really matter.
Yeah. It doesn't serve any function. Let's delve in a little bit into some of the book topics and then I can I can share some of my thoughts too and whatnot but do you want to take a stab at going through some of the stuff that he's talking about? Sure so it's very data heavy so we're going to skip the data largely guys.
If you want to read it I mean if you're on the fence about whether or not you think certain things in the past three to four years were legitimate it might be an interesting read for you let's put it that way. Would you say that's fair?
I would say that's fair I would say that I think the way that the pandemic happened at first nobody knew what was going on in the general population anyway and I think since then and since kind of all the emergency stuff there's been some things that have come out that maybe lend a little credence to some of some of the things that he's talking about in this book. I think I always had a problem with the vaccine mandates.
I still got vaccinated because you literally couldn't go anywhere but I didn't sit right with me that it was mandated.
You know they were all free but they weren't free but we didn't pay for them out of our pockets but all that taxpayer money that we did pay for out of our pockets ended up going to these same people that basically tanked the economy because they locked it down for three years and they ran a whole bunch of small businesses out and that data that's not a conspiracy theory at all because we have the statistics so many small businesses
closed because they didn't have the capital to pivot to an online model or what have you or you know the mandates negatively affected them more and the government kind of told people which stores were necessary. And they all happened to be major businesses that could buy off government officials just coincidentally coincidentally coincidentally.
Yeah I think the phrase in RFK used and I've heard this from others was that it's the largest upward transfer of wealth in the history of our society right. Yes and there's data to back that up because the CEOs the upper one percent gained as much money as the middle class and everybody else lost in buying power and stuff.
So oh yeah I mean I'm way worse off than it was you know four years ago let's put it that way yeah I shouldn't say way worse off but you know what I mean I mean yeah it hasn't been great as far as economics go. Yeah so so and he was talking about and I'm going to just butcher these because I just you know hydroxychloroquine chloroquine hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. Yes. And those were two that RFK was saying would drastically help with the COVID-19 symptoms and your recovery time.
And he said that the reason I mean this is one of the big points of the book I think he said the reason Fauci and everybody else didn't want those drugs to be used is because they were dirt cheap and their patents expired so big pharma couldn't profit off of them.
So they had to then say that they were horse pills or whatever and the point he makes in the book is that these things can be used to deworm horses but they do parasites in all mammals and all mammals are similar in regards to parasites I guess so.
Right and he explained in extreme detail like there's 20 different avenues that hydroxychloroquine acts on different pathways in the body that essentially it prevents viruses from being able to replicate as efficiently so it eliminates it lowers the overall viral load so your body's immune response can overcome the what's left in your body. It makes a lot of sense. It makes sense. I make sense.
I ever met in on the National Library of Medicine here and that's a it's a duck of and it just says Ivermectin has been used to treat humans for the past four decades. Initially was approved as a broad spectrum anti parasitic agent in 1987 and it was given as a mass drug and MDA mass drug administration in endemic countries.
So it says that it has showed highly significant reduction in viral RNA after 48 hours in relation to COVID so 99.8 percent but it was criticized that it achieved that by using a higher dosage in comparison to the standard human dose. Which RFK's claim was that it did that purposefully. They did that on purpose in the study to make it look like it couldn't be used because they wanted to use on patent medicines because then Fauci and all of his friends could profit on the VEX on these medicines.
Yes well and here the next sentence on this library of medicine is the anti-COVID activity in real life patients who were treated with a standard dose of three days of Ivermectin showed significant reduction in culture viability compared to the placebo group. So it seems like there is some science to back up at least the Ivermectin. Yes so he mentioned other things other than those two which were. Those were kind of the two big ones. Yeah. He also mentioned zinc.
Zinc which I didn't know until COVID that you could use zinc to lower your viral load of the common cold. So you should be taking zinc basically all winter. I take zinc. I've been taking zinc every day since I read this book. Not that I believe what he says. I actually started taking zinc in 21 during the winter time because apparently it helps you fight off viruses and I was like well. Well we've been getting weird summer colds too so.
Yeah. We have small kids so I might just as well just take it all year. Like who cares. Right. And vitamin D. See vitamin D was talked about in 21 as well because initially the groups in the United States that were getting hit the hardest were like the Somali population down in Minneapolis and they investigated it and the same group was having issues in Sweden.
Okay. And because their vitamin D was low because they're very dark skinned people in very northern climates and they wear lots of clothes in the summer so they were getting enough vitamin D production. So that's actually backed up external to the book. You know. Yes. And I've been taking vitamin D. I went in for labs one about a year ago and my doctor was like yeah you probably need to just take a vitamin D supplement but I didn't spend a whole lot of time in the sun this summer.
It was a weird summer. But yeah I do vitamin D and zinc. Adam to your regular. I mean we're not doctors or nutritionists but there's enough other good data out there that you could make an informed decision. Right. I'm about halfway done with this cigar Mike. I'm not quite halfway but I'm just behind you. I don't know. It's okay. It's fine. It's not. It's not bad. It's not. It's got just a tinge of bitterness I think that I'm not really jiving with. Yeah it's it's a little off.
I don't know what it is but it could be. I don't think it's just you if we're both having things like there's a little thing off there but I don't know. Who knows. It's tough to say sometimes. Right. So I think.
Oh go on Mike. Oh no I was gonna say in relation to the actual covid arguments he basically to sum it up like I say we can't get into everything because it's so data driven but the gist was that Anthony Fauci is in charge of funding research and he refused to fund accurate research and the research he did fund into off-patent medicines was purposefully botched and he showed a couple studies where they gave 400 times the safe dose of hydroxychloroquine and then of course
people died from the overdose but they gave 400 times the safe dose and 200 times the dose they know is going to kill everyone. So that's a pretty bold claim. Yeah it's not the boldest claim of the book but. No the bolder claims come later. Yeah yeah we'll save those kind of more for the end I guess if we get into them.
Yeah I mean he walks through all these things and basically the first maybe half of the book explains how these different boards and oversight committees get made and how they are populated with Fauci and Gates crew. And yeah industry insiders.
And how they are able to patent anything that the company that their government body creates they can also get you know the patents so they also get royalties for every unit sold and it just kind of explains I mean everybody knows everybody should know that there's huge money to be made in American health care and pharmaceuticals and treatment and insurance everything related to medical. So that shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody.
And it shouldn't come as a surprise that regulatory capture happens in many industries in the United States and that there's a revolving door between the regulators and the companies that are being regulated. So oftentimes the people who are acting as the regulator used to work for the company that they are now regulating and are going to work for them again in the future.
Yes almost like being a Supreme Court justice and deciding cases from the cruise ship that the person you're trying to trying to case against puts you up on or something of that nature. Yeah I mean it's yeah exactly. You're on your worldwide trip and you're calling cases against the very people that paid for your worldwide trip every year for 30 years. I know this guy he's a stand up fellow and he did nothing wrong. Yep surely.
I think in order I mean it's only 480 pages but like we said at the top there's so many claims are made so many things are discussed and it doesn't really feel helter skelter in the book. I mean it kind of follows. I mean there are a couple of times I was like okay we're shifting gears and jumping over here now and it all kind of ties ties back.
But he was also talking about and this is and we mentioned this on it was on the Wikipedia where he's talking about and it was really weird because he phrases things very strangely sometimes in this book.
So there is one and I remember reading it and it was he was talking about how HIV totally does not cause AIDS because of the way they defined HIV was so broad that almost anybody who tests for HIV will have it because they've made the definition of HIV so broad that there's not really a single HIV thing and people who said that they found like the HIV I don't know if it's the protein or the cell or the whatever it is have since recanted and said that they actually didn't find it.
But then at the end of that chapter he says I don't disbelieve that HIV causes AIDS just for the record. So I don't really understand what the point of right. That is unless he's just trying to see see why you know covers. Well the point was in that this is what I think is it was an example of how Anthony Fauci systematically muddies the water. Yeah. So that you don't know what is and what is not true.
And that way he and his buddies can patent medicines and get them passed through all of these little boards and then they profiteer on it because he's the highest paid government employee and he's the one that's the power broker handing out grant money. So everybody wants to do what Anthony wants. That's he's like the little kingpin on this system. He's like the mob boss if you help him do his thing he'll he'll toss you some some good stuff your way or whatever.
So that part that part is I you know and I've been reading this book for a while and I told my Sarah about it which I guess was a little bit of a mistake. She's like oh you're reading that conspiracy book again huh.
And I was so I finally like sat down with her and I was like we had a we had a date night and so we were able to talk uninterrupted and I was like yeah you know it's interesting I don't know if I believe every single thing in it but the thing is that if even one of the things in this book is true it's it's huge. Like if even one of the things is true it's huge. So yes I guess that's kind of my my viewpoint on the book. Well it is true.
So it is true that the Bill Gates Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation caused a polio outbreak. Yeah they caused a polio outbreak. They put what live polio cultures in their vaccines. Yeah they're they're using a vaccine that's been banned in the United States and Europe because they we had a polio outbreak from this style of vaccine but they still had a patented so they could still make profit on it and charge the governments for it.
So they gave them this lesser vaccine that's more dangerous to these third world countries and then charge their governments for it which ultimately came out of the American taxpayer dollar because they're getting medical funding.
Yeah and it goes back probably to the confessions of an economic hitman where they have the World Bank or something and they offer to fund infrastructure for these third world countries or these less well-off countries and they can get a loan for this and then these big pharma people are still getting paid. They don't care where it gets where it comes from. Right. And he did RFK did make several several not straight out.
I don't think accusations but some references to they were using these clinical trials and Bill Gates is using the let's eradicate whatever from the armpit of the world. No offense if you live in the armpit of the world. Anyone in the panhandle of Oklahoma I'm sorry that you live there.
You can move but no I'm just going to these other foreign countries and they were doing it to establish a foothold for oil or gold or other American interests in that area outside of health things but the health reason opened the door to get Americans in there. Right and that's a well-known strategy. Yeah it doesn't sound out of the realm of reality. If you don't research any of this stuff you're like I can see them doing that. It sounds perfectly reasonable.
I will get put a criticism out is he was using data from countries that I don't think are going to provide reliable data. I know it was the first chapter something he was like in China eradicated covid in the first three months that's I guarantee you that's bullshit. He listed like Canada the United States France Belgium Japan communist China and Algeria. Like yeah yeah these are not all the same. South Korea and Algeria. I believe data from South Korea. I do not believe data from Sudan.
Okay. Or China. Or yeah the North Korean dictator went and punched all the covid out of North Korea or something. Right. I think India is probably pretty good and reliable but I'm going to guess that the data from Inner Mongolia is less so you know like they just don't have the infrastructure. It's not that they're bad actors they just don't have the infrastructure to be able to accurately record it. Yeah they don't have the reporting. They don't have the reporting.
Right and he talked about how our data the United States data was manipulated and that is also true. That is right. That is also true. I remember that is also true. Oh so and so died of covid. It could be well they maybe had covid like symptoms and then they got into an automobile accident covid or something. I mean it was almost as ridiculous as that. I remember. Yeah. I mean this is like an apocryphal story so don't take it as gospel anybody.
But my co-workers brother-in-law died in a motorcycle crash and they said that he died of covid according to him. Now whether is that true. You know I don't know. But they've had covid on his death certificate all the same and he flipped a motorcycle on the highway. Yeah. And again I cannot verify that story. Yeah. But I mean it's not out of the realm of possibility because I saw some pretty crazy stories on the Internet. Therefore it has to be true right. Exactly.
But yeah anyway so there's enough people that criticize the government's response and I think if you're on the fence if the government exploited the pandemic. I mean I'm not saying the pandemic didn't happen. I'm just saying if you're on the fence on whether or not the pandemic the government exploited the pandemic probably a good book for you to read just to get a different viewpoint. Yeah yeah.
We have to be very careful about the details and the claims made because we don't want to get in trouble and we are not part of the royal family of the United States. So we don't have the sort of economic backing and protection that our of KJU has. Yeah neither neither of us neither of our last names are Kennedy Bush Clinton Gates Musk. So you know Bezos. We are not of the Bezos clan. Yeah we're just whatever.
But I did find it interesting that Bezos and Gates owned a lot of newspapers at least according to RFK. Oh they do. Post. Yeah. So then I mean that just further proves that you're not going to get. So of course all the I mean you know if you if you get it let's just for a moment go down and say hey RFK is 100 percent absolutely telling the truth. He's not exaggerating. He's not lying. He says the truth. Well all these people he's criticizing in this book own all the newspapers and the media.
So of course if they want to call him a conspiracy nut and put it on his Wikipedia page then they certainly could. And they did because I just read him like this is not a not an impartial Wikipedia page for this. No and Wikipedia is a well known environmental lawyer. Yeah. World renowned environmental lawyer who's won many cases who's also won cases in court involving chemicals and vaccines that were removed. So it's not like he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
He's not a no he's not he's not a psycho. He's he's not talking out of his ass. He has a record of having done these things like in reality. Not living in an RV down by the river off the grid. You know no he personally knows Anthony Fauci and has for years. He is a part of the ruling elite of the country. So yeah he's kind of kind of a whistleblower.
I mean I know that I got vaccinated right away because I believed the claims that were made on television that it would prevent you from passing the facts or the virus along. And I know a lot of elderly people my parents are elderly. I bowl with a lot of elderly people and I didn't want to be responsible. We're not even talking bowling. I know right. I didn't want to be responsible for getting one of them sick with covid and possibly dying right.
Yeah. So there was a court case in Europe and the European Union brought up a spokesperson for Pfizer and Pfizer openly said that they never claimed that the vaccine would stop transmission and they never tested it. Yeah. But Rachel Maddow was certainly telling people that the president of the United States was certain to certainly telling people that. So the company itself never made that claim.
But the spokespeople that these companies are paying they said it right like Pfizer or paying CNN and CNN says it. Yeah. Yeah. Similar story to me is you know I had a small child at the time and I wanted to get vaccinated of my own free will. I didn't like that it was mandated but I would have I would have gotten vaccinated anyway because we had a newborn right at the time. And I was like well if I don't get sick then my newborn can't get sick.
And you know they didn't have anything approved for children until I think a year ago a year and a half ago maybe. And it was the same thing if I get vaccinated then I won't get it and I won't pass it. But then all the data came out that you can have it but be non symptomatic and you can still pass it along to other people who may or may not be symptomatic.
So you know and I think that the part where in the book where RFK was saying that Fauci would invent or he'd have people invent this new vaccine he would go to the media before the scientific journal was even published before the peer review phase and say we've got this brand new thing it's going to kick this disease's butt. Go get it. And he just didn't end around around the scientific process. Right he'd he'd sweeten the well. It's like the opposite of poisoning the well in a conversation.
He'd sweeten it up but also never claimed he was making money on it. You know of course he wants you to take it. Never disclosed that he was making money on it. Yeah for disclosed that he was going to make money on it. Yeah right. And Bill Gates too. They had Bill Gates on TV talking about it and he was a major stakeholder in the company that was manufacturing the vaccine. Yeah that was never disclosed that Bill Gates is going to make a half a billion dollars on this thing or whatever.
And you would think making a ton of money. You would think that he being that rich would make him immune to wanting to make more money but that is not how it works. No that's not how it's work. It's like you give somebody cocaine and they say no I had it once. They don't need it ever again. That's not usually how that goes. No they want more. They want all of it.
And the research I actually looked this up to verify my data but the research that they conducted in the last decade has shown and proven that the wealthier somebody is the more cognitive dissidents they have about people who are poor. So somebody like Bill Gates probably views the average person as no different than a lab rat. From his perspective we are just rats that he can test on and exploit. It's like talking to the people who get psychotic.
Yeah one of the later chapters of the book alleges that Gates and Fauci and company have killed I don't know tens of thousands if not more kids and people in these poor countries they test their vaccines on because they don't have the same testing restrictions or requirements that you know say America or Canada or pretty much any country in Europe have to protect citizens from from this and they oftentimes ran without a placebo group and allegedly
according to RFK would give these known known poisonous vaccines to people telling them that they were vitamins or boosters or something and not ever fully disclosing what was what they were actually giving them. Yes. Allegedly by the author of the book. Alleged by the author of the book and he has not been sued for claiming that. I think he did call them mass murderers at one point. Oh I'm sure he did. I think he did say that Fauci and Bill Gates were mass murderers. We are not saying that.
Robert Kennedy Jr. made that claim and a claim like that that did it. He did not. He has not been sued for that. This is a bestselling book and he has not been sued for that claim. Yes. The other thing to be aware of I think Mike is that you can't I don't know that you can't but it's it's pretty hard to slander or libel someone who's a public figure in America.
You can pretty much say what if you want about somebody as long as it's not threatening as long as you're not threatening their life if they're a public figure and if you it depends on how you say things too if you say I think Bill Gates is a mass murderer is different than saying Bill Gates is a mass murderer. Just for example this is just philosophically I don't believe Bill Gates is a mass murderer or I do I don't know it doesn't matter. That's not the point.
The point is the phrasing of things and as a lawyer even an environmental lawyer how you phrase things is paramount one tenth of the law of possession is nine tenths. You know the phrasing is the other the other tenth but right. Well he also the thing is is that he made the claim and then he backed it up with evidence. So you think that they could at least sue over his evidence or refute his evidence or something. I mean this is not a nothing burger. No I'd have to look at it a lot more.
I'd have to read it with a different mindset in seeing how he phrases if he says the evidence says that Bill Gates is a mass murderer or did he say I R.F.K. think Bill Gates is a mass murderer or did he say you know like what was the phrasing you know. I don't know. Yeah you're right. I'm sure he really went and scrubbed it many times before he published it. I'm sure that he doesn't seem like a person that wants to open himself up to litigation.
He has publicly called for both of them to sue him if any of the claims in the book are false. But that's again he's a public figure they're a public figure. You can see a lot of shit in the United States and get away with it. I guess the last little bit the last like chapter two or whatever it might have been I don't remember exactly.
He was talking about and this is what I wanted to talk to you about Mike because I figure you're the kind of person that might have already done the research on this or you might have your own opinions on it. And I remember this is a big topic in the height of the pandemic is R.F.K. was saying that vaccines cause autism in this book. He said that he did not exactly say that he has never publicly said that exact thing.
He says that there is a spike point in the data where autism started to dramatically increase which was 1984 which coincides with the increase in the vaccine schedule to the modern vaccine schedule. That's the beginning and that there's a direct correlation between the increasing aggressiveness of the vaccine schedule and increasing rates of autism. OK yeah. Yes. I mean it certainly seemed he certainly seemed to be saying vaccines cause autism. He's saying that he thinks that they're correlated.
He thinks that the correlation is correlation does not prove causation or does not equal causation. That is correct. Well I mean there could be other factors. I don't I don't know. I didn't I didn't look into any of that. Well I looked I've looked into it and there is a correlation but there's also a correlation between or correlation.
We were spraying massive amounts of petrochemicals from the end of World War 2 into the 1960s and the 80s is the first generation who were the children of the people who were growing up when those chemicals were being sprayed. So it could be due to the mutagenic chemicals that were being sprayed everywhere in the United States. I also wonder about cigarette smoking because I remember as a kid we'd go to like Perkins or Wendy's or something and they'd ask you on smoking or not smoking.
But you're getting secondhand smoke regardless because they just close like a like a door. It's not a airtight door. It's not anything. There's no ventilation in there. It's all just smoking basically. So I you know could that be. I don't know. I'm not I'm not a scientist or doctor. And again the kids born in the 80s are going to be the second generation of kids who were born by mothers who were smokers. You know is was smoking in the womb for two generations in a row a mutagenic.
There's a lot of factors. I am not subscribing to the idea that vaccines cause autism. OK. No I know. I'm just saying like I feel like there's a lot of factors that are at play. Yes I feel like he lost me a little bit because I wanted him to mention some of these other factors and understand.
I understand. Yeah I mean I understand his book is you know Fowlshank Gates are evil and what the government did during the covid pandemic is evil and they've been doing evil for some time tests for a long time which is you know sure. That's all stuff I can get behind you know using trying to use just simply just correlation and not talking about other things that may or may not impact it. Just just kind of lost me a little bit because I was I guess I was wanting a little more from that section.
But I agree. Well I thought it was as weak as his use of data from questionable countries. Right. Like that's probably not. I mean it's good to add it in but you don't want to rely too heavy on that data. Right. But just like like like I say he on the record has caused the government to ban certain chemicals from being in vaccines that were in vaccines. So he has done boots on the ground work in this area. Yes but it's certainly not the only environmental factor you know. Yeah yeah.
How about the introduction of plastics into everything. Right. Like there's a lot of swimming with micro plastics or some. Yeah there's a lot of environmental factors that are going on that all add up to changes. So yeah. Yeah. And the other thing I didn't like about the book was he used a lot of the same phrases repeatedly and it just was kind of got a little repetitive with I don't know if I'll pronounce or ever like the coup de coup de tat or coup de coup de coup de ta.
Yeah he used it like coup de gras 57 times. Yes. Chapter or something. So I was kind of I was kind of thinking OK it's losing its oomph if you're going to keep using it you know save that right. And then or something. He was on message. He really does not like Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci. Yeah. And that's fair. Yeah. Well that is fair. Like you said I don't like I don't like any one of his claims. Epstein Island. So right. Well that's a fact. You're right. That is a fact.
And well if one of the claims that he made are true there's a serious problem. He made a lot of claims and he had a lot of evidence to back up every single thing that he said. Maybe not all of it was true but maybe not. But it's all I think that's the important thing and I think that's you know why I wanted to talk about it was it's it's an interesting thought experiment. And we've talked about this before when I told you I read the case for Christ. That's not a book I would normally read.
I would not normally read this book. This you read it because I suggested it. Yeah I read it because you suggested it. I would I went into it and I was like I don't know what this is going to be. This this could be some weird weird crap or this could be interesting. And I think at the end of the day is an interesting thought experiment. And if even if even one thing that he said was true then he should be exonerated. You know what I mean. Right.
But he has made some pretty crazy claims about political stuff that I don't agree with. It's not like I'm a big RFK supporter in some like religious sense or anything. You know like I'm not like we've talked about this before on the show is pretty much I'm not a fan of any politician that's willingly there. You know what I mean. Right. And he did references his was was Ted his uncle. Yes. So he referenced Ted Kennedy.
He's like well I was really proud my uncle went in and busted this thing up in the 80s. And then he was like I was really proud of my uncle Ted when he did this in the 90s. And OK. He's an elite. He's an elite American. You know what I mean. Like his his experience is in this world are not the same as ours. No I mean and I feel like that was him trying to connect with his audience. Like I was probably my uncle did. Yeah my uncle my uncle was on the police force for a while.
What do you want me to say. I don't know. Right. Oh he flexed like. Yeah. He was a hydroxychloroquine for years. We went to Africa on Safari you know three four times a year every year. Just like every average American does. But he it was a great example because hydroxychloroquine is an over the counter in most of the world. It's as safe as Tylenol. It was here until Covid. It is as safe as Tylenol when you take it in the correct dose. Not 100 times the regular dose.
Like the safe dose is the safe dose. You know it's like iodine. If you drink a bottle of iodine you're probably not going to be feeling very good. You know what I mean. Yeah. Well it's the same as ibuprofen or anything else. You know if you take above the thing then you might have issues. Right. I think I probably had hydroxychloroquine because I went to India for a month and I definitely had to take malaria pills. Oh yeah. So whatever those were. And you're OK for the most part.
Yeah I mean I didn't I didn't die. I was there in the winter so that helps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. I think I think by and large is an interesting book. I don't I don't know that I 100 percent agree with everything but there's some pretty bold claims pretty bold claims. There's a lot of claims that seem well within the realm of possibility especially with how the big pharma and the FDA approval process works.
Yes. I think anytime you read any kind of book or even any kind of news article like who's writing it and why. You know R.F.K. just hates Fauci and Gates. So that's his motivation. Yep. Yeah. He thinks that they're monstrosities for sure. Yeah. And I mean I don't necessarily disagree with that. I don't disagree with that. But that also doesn't mean that R.F.K. is not also a type of monstrosity either being part of the ruling class. Right. And he was born into the purple. No doubt about it.
Yeah. So it's an interesting thought experiment and it's a good thing to talk about. I think I do think that a lot of people looking back at the covid-19 pandemic will tell you that a lot of American rights were violated throughout. Yes. Regardless of where you stand on vaccines and masking and all that stuff.
We I told the story a couple of episodes back when we were talking about our favorite bookstores where I went into one and it was twenty twenty three and they were still requiring masks in the store and I put one on to go in. You know they had them there. If they wouldn't have had them there I would have left because I don't carry a mask on me. But right. Yeah. We it was last summer I want to say I think it was twenty two. Sarah and I were down in the metro.
I was at a conference and we wanted to swing through and get coffee and a donut at the shop on a corner that she went to growing up and we couldn't get coffee because you couldn't go in without a mask and they weren't supplying them. It was the middle of summer in twenty two. It's like yeah a little late here fellas ladies and fellas. I don't know what to tell you.
I remember I remember when they announced they had the vaccine and people were starting to get vaccinated and I went with Dave who we had on the show. We went to the grocery store and I drove and he was going to run in and grab something from the grocery store and he was like what the it just the news just came out about the masks and the and the and the vaccine and everything. And he's like do you think I need to put my mask on. I said go keep it in your pocket and try and go in without it on.
And he it was so weird. It was like it was like the the Berlin Wall had just fallen. He came back out and he goes I went in there and I didn't put a mask on. Nobody told me to put a mask on. Nobody else in there had a mask on. It's like I feel liberated. And it was a weird feeling to feel that as an American citizen. And that's how you know you're probably Stockholm syndrome into some of this stuff. Oh for sure. Like where I live we had two different lockdowns.
The first lockdown was followed and the second one was largely ignored here. Yeah. Basically they just put wall. They just put you know they locked the door and you had to call them to come in. You know what I mean. It was like very much disregarded. Yeah. Well there's and there's an interesting point in the book too where they said I think it was what three years was kind of the max that the population was going to follow some of these things.
Yeah. So it's like in their simulations that they that they ran for a pandemic like situation. So when you hear about some of these and those were interesting those different simulations that they did because when you hear about these they're doing back in the 90s and stuff and then up until you know 2019 or you know early 2020 it's like well okay they've already they've already had this well thought out and orchestrated for a long time.
Right. Well just you know I'm not saying it didn't keep people safe but I think our case point is that there are other things that could have been done safer. He said nobody was stockpiling masks. Nobody was looking at over the counter remedies or off patent remedies. And you know so I think I think kind of what we said earlier is the government response was less than what it should have been regardless of how much of this book you believe or don't believe.
I think that everybody can agree that the government response was inadequate and possibly incompetent on purpose. And also a lot of the fear mongering on Bill Gates's part was self-serving. I don't remember if he brought it up but Microsoft made a bunch of money as a result of everybody moving over to Microsoft Teams. And yeah I mean even my place of business moved from Skype to Teams because Teams is top control right. So yeah of course everybody's going to move.
Yeah. Teams was ready for everybody to move to a mobile meeting system. And I like using it. We still use it. It's nice. It's very convenient. But I mean you can't deny that Bill Gates made a shit ton of money just from that. You know just from that one thing. Work from home is great for these IT people. And Bezos made a ton of money. So of course the Washington Post is going to be supporting the lockdowns because ultimately their owner is making bank you know. Yeah for sure. So for sure.
But my fingers are burning on this one Mike. Yes I am near the end. Like I agree with you that if you're listening and you're interested in the read you should read it. It does make some very bold claims. Take everything with a grain of salt or do some additional research on the areas that you have issues with. I mean you know like Mike and I. Yeah he's quoting stats from China. OK bud. Right. That some of the vaccine cause autism stuff. Is it true? Isn't it true?
I know it's a very very touchy subject. I don't know. Yeah. I was like he doesn't mention that chapter. So I was turned off largely because he didn't mention any of the other factors that could have played a role. Like there's correlation and there's causation and the causation has to be more complicated than just one thing. Most likely. Right. So probably probably. Right. But yeah if I have my boss reading it. Yeah. He's. I know it's got a lot.
It's got it's almost it's got to be four and a half four and three quarters out of five on Goodreads. I gave it a four. I just I thought it was interesting. There are a few chapters that I kind of took issue with or a few things that he mentioned that I took issue with. His writing style is is fine. It's serviceable. It's a lot of the same phrases and things but. It's written by a lawyer very clearly written by a lawyer. So very data heavy. Yes. So cigar. I thought it was perfectly adequate.
Second half was better than the first half. I had second half was better. It's light. It has that little tinge in the first half like a tang to it. Never really left for me. But oh mine did. But I'm also a glass of whiskey down. So that probably helps. It probably does. Yeah. I don't know. I think if you want to Connecticut there's better Connecticut's out there. But yeah there is. There is. It's fine. The nub Connecticut was better in my opinion.
Yeah. Yeah. And there are some other Connecticut's that were really good. I can't remember now offhand but they're out there on our on our episode list. So yes yes. All right. Well thanks for listening. Be safe. Have fun.