CAO America

Welcome to Nice Ashes, I'm Nate. And I'm Mike. What are we smoking Mike? It looks like Rocky Balboa's fighting shorts. It does. We are smoking a CAO America. And now I know we typically wait to do this, but I had to slide the wrapper off at the end because it was over the cap with that triangle piece up. Yeah, my wrapper is really loose. It's not coming off. It also had a tip wrapper. Yeah, yeah, I took that off right away.

I couldn't burn that one because that looks more American flaggy than the rest of it. Right. And this one's pretty sexy. It's got like a little Connecticut stripe. Yeah, yeah. Like the, we'll call it the what, the founding father flair or something. Yeah. I've never seen this in a cigar shop. I've seen some of the other country series. Okay. But this one's easily the most attractive. Yeah, when I, well, it's America. Right, right.

When I went to wet this one, I don't know if this is true or not, but like, I don't know if it was plum or there was some different like flavor. It's a little bit of a spicy wrapper, but there is some kind of, I think almost fruity, fruity taste to this wrapper as well, but I might be wrong. Yeah, I had some tang. I had a flavor in there. Not sure what it was. Okay. Yeah, I wasn't sure either. I don't know why my brain thought plum, but that's what my brain thought.

I'm also not good at tasting things as we've mentioned before on the podcast. So I'm going to light up and then Mike has a Mike knows and Nate doesn't know topic. So you, the listener, will be just as surprised as I am. And now this is the start of another series, isn't it Mike? This is a whole line of CAO countries. So we're doing America and my first few puffs taste like British tears. So that's good. Yes. Mine tastes like tea spilt in the Atlantic is exactly what it's like.

Yes. And I think the British one, the CAO British, I think that one just tastes like beans and plain toast, right? That's what I've heard. Failure and disappointment. Well, there's that too. Masturbation tears and a cuck tent. Yes. Royal family incest and. Yeah, and Jeffrey Epstein's connection to the royal family. Yes. I don't think they have a British one. So we're just making fun, right? They don't have a British. I don't think so. No, I have.

I know of three off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's more. We'll have to find them. Yes. Mine. Mine seems to be fairly tightly packed. It's a it's firm. Personally, I have a firm one, but it is very attractive. I like that. You're talking about the cigar still or? Yes. Yes. I like that. I like that straight. Man, that looks really good. The nice firm one. Yeah. The stripe is interesting. I don't know. I don't think it's quite enough Connecticut to be able to discern a flavor from it.

Just given like the surface ratio of that, but. No, probably not. But it does look very, very neat. They took took a while to to roll. I don't know. I don't know how they do that. What reminds me of the not Olivia. Maybe it is the Olivia Spanish series. OK, there's another couple of cigars that I've seen that have that stripe and they're pretty nice. This is a shelf appeal. They look really good. Yes. So this one so far is is decent. I mean, the first couple of puffs does it.

It's fairly robust, I think. It's robust. It's not that like not alcohol, but like that acidic cigar flavor. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Not super crazy. What are you pairing it with tonight? I am pairing it with a surly furious, which is an IPA from a local brewery here. I know they distribute outside of here, but I guess I don't know how far they distribute here statewide, I'm guessing.

OK. So I've had this this 12th pack has had kind of some quality control issues because every single one I've opened has a foamed out the top. So and I've kind of cooled on surly just because they did some union busting kind of tactics a year or two ago. I remember that. Yeah. I hate unions, but I hate people who hate. I hate companies who hate unions because usually if your workers want to unionize, you're doing something not right. So right. Yeah. Typically there's something going on.

I have a whiskey sour and then a kicker of Johnny Walker Black. So nice. Yep. Good enough for Saddam Hussein. Good enough for me. Yes, indeed. And Mike's broadcasting live from his cave. Yes. Yes. I put up some pegboard today above the old workbench here in the garage and cleaned off a vast amount of surface space here, which I'm very thrilled about. Nice. Not that anyone cares or needs to know, but are you going to put hooks in your pegboard and hang some stuff? Oh yeah, I did.

I put a whole bunch of hooks in there and I'm looking at all these hanging tools now. I could build something right now. I shit you not, but I won't because we're podcasting. So are you hanging power tools or are you hanging like hand tools? These are hand tools or toe tools if you've got dexterous feet. You know, hammers, wrenches, clamps, saws, screwdrivers, box cutter, rivet gun, which I haven't used. I just took it out of the package. And then I've got what looks like a 1952 staple gun.

Oh. Well, it's orange, but you know, it's seen better days. I think it came from my grandfather. Might have to inspect it further to see if there's actually like any manufacturing stuff on it or not. Right. It's probably an arrow. Could be. Could be. Now you're going to make me look. Oh no. Is that a Proto Stanley? It is a Swingline number 181 Tacker. Oh. Very old school. Yes. And it's got, it looks like it's got like a safety kind of latch on it and everything.

So that's a not when Nate is drinking. It's just one of the squeeze staple guns, you know. If it's, it's all metal, so it's probably fairly badass. I have a couple of the hand staplers. The best staple I've ever seen. My dad has a roof stapler. Okay. From like 1972. And I don't know the brand, but that fucking thing is made out of pure steel and all the pins broke and every pin is a 16 penny nail bent over top of it.

So if you have to change anything out of it, you have to unband a 16 penny nail. Okay. But it comes from the days when my dad worked for Bechtel International. So that's. There you go. Yep. A call back to our episode. Oh, what the hell was that called? Internet or economic hitman? Yes. Yeah. So I was working for Bechtel International back in his day as a master carpenter. I'm waiting for his tell all book to come out. Right. Your dad's studies. He could. He could.

He worked with the military for a long time. He might as well. In his own right. I'd read it. He was just a cog in the machine. He wasn't important enough to know any secrets. His cog made money for his family, but I don't think he knows anything nefarious. Well, maybe not. Maybe not. So the good news to everybody listening, well, to me is that it is snowing out. And so if I had not built my garage studio when it was warm out, we wouldn't be able to podcast today because it's snowing.

It is not snowing here. So hopefully it stays down by. We were supposed to get up to three inches. Yeah. We were supposed to get six. Last time we were supposed to get 24 and we only got 12. So yeah, we'll find out. We've gotten a lot of snow this year. So everybody's south of Minnesota. Watch out. Yeah. Well, at least along Mississippi, right? I don't think this is going to be a record year. I think last year there was a record year for one of the communities in northern Minnesota.

And I don't think it's going to be a record year. But there is a lot of snow. I mean, I can see the clothesline, but there's a lot of snow. All right. Well we've done enough foreplay. What is this topic I know nothing about? The Manson family. Like Marilyn Manson? No, yes, like Marilyn Manson. No, not Marilyn Manson, which all of his accusers have now recanted.

For those of you who wanted to bash Marilyn Manson for being a groomer, all those girls have now recanted their stories, whether that's legit or not, who knows. Tough to say. Charles Manson and his family. Yes. What is this? The Sharon Tate and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? The Sharon Tate and the L'Oblianca murderers. But we'll find out if there's more. So what do you know about Charles Manson?

Well, and I'm going to try very, very hard to separate this from Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which is kind of like a Glorious Basterds, a fictional retelling of Hollywood in that era. A very fictional retelling that does not include Manson. It's very interesting. I like that movie. I like that movie too. I still think In Glorious Basterds is better, but Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is very, very enjoyable. I didn't like In Glorious Basterds, funnily enough.

I should watch it again. You should watch it again. It was kind of tough because that was his very first fictionalized history account. And so the first time watching it, I'm like, well, how can they be emptying clips into Hitler when that very clearly didn't happen in real life?

But I think knowing what to expect kind of going into it, that it's a fictionalized account and much better done than Blonde, which was a fictionalized account, but it was completely fictional about all of Marilyn Monroe's life. Now we've got Manson on the brain. I don't know. Anyway, so I'm trying to separate the movie. They had a cult and they murdered Sharon Tate, who was an actress and maybe some other people. And they're not the Jim, was it the Jim Jones who did the Kool-Aid?

No, Jim Jones is totally separate. We can talk about him in a different episode. Okay. I'm not as into, so a lot of people are into these serial killers and mass murderers and like tortured souls and I struggled to keep them all straight. So this is a perfect example of Mike knows and Nate does not. Perfect. My first introduction to Charles Manson was in college and I dated this fine young lady from South Dakota and she was really into serial killers.

So she was really big in Jim Jones and she was really big into Charles Manson and she had back in the early 2000s, she had downloaded Charles Manson's albums. Oh yeah. We listen to him. I remember hearing about those. Yeah. I've listened to Charles Manson's music and it's kind of like dark hippie music that's very folksy. It's kind of like Mississippi Delta blues. It's good. Okay. It's very dark and strummy and bluesy. You know what I mean?

It's kind of like listening to Lead Belly but not, Lead Belly's a master and obviously Charles Manson wasn't that good, but he was pretty good. He could have passed as a musical act in the 60s for sure. Okay. It's decent. It's fine. For those who haven't listened to it, try to find it and listen to it because it's all right and that plays a huge role in the story.

Charles Manson was trying to create an album with Terry Melcher who was the son of Doris Day who was a huge record executive at the time. He had a bunch of successful LPs and Manson was tied in with Melcher pretty tight. Him and Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys fame. I think they were producing a lot of albums at the time. There was kind of, wasn't there? And I might be jumping ahead.

I don't mean to do so, but I know we've, my Sarah and I, we've watched that one Beach Boys movie that came out a couple of years ago with, well, it doesn't matter, but they had like two different people. I can't remember the name of it. Something Summer Beachy, whatever the fuck, but they had two different people play Brian Wilson, you know, one for younger and one for older. And I felt like there was some kind of like Manson thing in there.

So some kind of Manson connection, but I couldn't remember exactly what it was. He was intricately tied with Manson. Okay. I'm more into that. So, it's one of those topics where it's like, I vaguely know about it. And so when you say things, I'm like, oh yeah, maybe I did hear about that. But he knows about Charles Manson. That's the beautiful part of it. Everybody has a background.

So the official case was put together by Booghly O.C. who was a prosecutor for LA County or City of Los Angeles, I'm sorry. And it was the helter skelter argument where Charles Manson was trying to start a race war. And so he murdered some white people and put some black propaganda out. He wanted to start a race war between whites and blacks. You have to remember this is late 60s and the Black Panthers are popular.

And the theory was that he was trying to start a race war between whites and blacks. So he had his family members murder people. Okay. Real as a quick aside, did you see that there are two Native Hawaiian people that were charged in the murder of a white person as a hate crime? No. Okay. It's not relevant to the story other than you mentioned race war. But well, how the right. I mean, how is this a term? Yeah, that's a look it up.

So anyway, the official story is that Charles Manson brainwashed these vulnerable adults and trained them to kill and blah, blah, blah. Then magically they were also held responsible for the murders. And he had a whole bunch of people, like 30, 40 people. Okay. And he had a compound too, didn't he? He had a compound and it was a cult following. And these people went in front of the courthouse and like did sit ins and shaved their heads. And it was a whole big hula.

And it was very anti hippie in the news. And it worked well for the federal government to crack down on LSD and on the hippies in general. It really worked well into their plan, quote unquote, during the Nixon administration has when they prosecuted these people. Everybody knows. Everybody knows. But that's the common story. I read a book that questions this and this gentleman, it was called chaos. Let's see who it's by. Chaos by Tom O'Neill.

And he did a 20 year long study and he interviewed a lot of people and he chased down a lot of doc. And he calls into question the narrative. And one thing is certain. That story is a lie. We don't know what the real story is. Like many things in this world, we don't know what the story is. But we know that that is a fucking lie. Which part? That he brainwashed these people? Or that he was trying to start a race war? He definitely brainwashed these people. Did he want to start a race war?

Probably not. There's layers involved. So I don't know the best way to start it. But in the trial, they started with Charles Manson in Los Angeles and they discounted his entire life before his time there. But Charles Manson was a lifelong criminal and he was already in his mid 30s by the time he got to Los Angeles. So he spent the majority of his life in federal prison. He was a federal prison parolee.

He the two previous years before living in Los Angeles lived in San Francisco and he spent a long time at the Haight-Ashbury Clinic. Do you know about the Haight-Ashbury Clinic? I do not. So the Haight-Ashbury Clinic was a free medical clinic in the Haight-Ashbury District of San Francisco and it was a hippie central spot. Next door were the diggers and then they had the Haight-Ashbury. The Haight-Ashbury Clinic would do free healthcare and the diggers would get free food.

They had this whole hippie community in Haight-Ashbury and that's where a lot of this hippie-dippie shit that we know now came out of. Okay. And Charles Manson had an apartment two blocks from the Haight-Ashbury Clinic. Okay. What wasn't covered, go ahead. Oh no. Was he a patient at the clinic or did he help out there a lot or are you getting to that? Listen. Okay. Listen. This is the kicker. All right. Here we go.

The guy who ran the Haight-Ashbury Clinic was a CIA operative who did research on mice chemically inducing them to violence with LSD and amphetamines. No. Yes. The CIA would never do that to anybody. Yes. There was a second person there who was not officially a part of the Haight-Ashbury Clinic, but he had a office there. He was the head of the MKUltra program for the CIA. MKUltra program, for those who don't know, was in charge of the CIA's attempt to mind control people.

And apparently he was quite successful. Third fact. Right? So Charles Manson hung out at this clinic. The guy who headed it was CIA. The assistant was CIA. He was best buddies with these guys. His parole officer had one client, Charles Manson, and he was CIA. So nobody's saying that Charles Manson is a part of the CIA. He's a lifetime criminal. No doubt about it. Lifetime criminal. Yeah. This is for somebody who's not as familiar with this story as Mike is.

My opinion on this, well, let's just say it is twofold. I'm going to say this just to level set us a bit and to give my initial thoughts. My first thought is, okay, mind control and LSD and violence and stuff. And amphetamines. Don't forget the amphetamines. And amphetamines. This comes in later. Yes. It sounds far out.

However, there have been other proven cases of the CIA and other government bodies doing this type of research on people and I think they just released, and I don't know, I don't remember the name of it, but were they giving aids to a whole bunch of poor black people to see what the effects of it was? Tuskegee was an aids. Oh yeah. Okay. Was it syphilis? Syphilis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And so they've recently, that's come out in the news again lately.

So initially I was like, well, okay, all this other stuff and like, but I know that they've done it and there's proof that they've done these tests on people. Oh, MKUltra is a fact. Came out in a commission in the seventies. We know there were docent people with LSD. My other thought is somebody like Charles Manson is a prime suspect to become a test subject for these groups. He already had psychosis for sure. Yeah. He was already messed up. He was already a criminal.

Basically had already forfeit most of his rights as a citizen through his crimes. He was at the mercy of the government because he was a federal parolee. So they could, he's easily manipulated. Just put it that way. Yes. Yes. So let's continue, he was a major fixture at the Haight Ashbury Clinic, which was covered up at the trial, but the head of the clinic was CIA who did research on mice with acid and amphetamines.

The second guy at the clinic was the head of the MKUltra program who was in charge of mind control using LSD and other drugs. His parole officer was CIA. Okay. Yeah. And he lived in this world where he'd go to the clinic, hang out, did whatever, nobody knows and he'd collect these followers. Him and his followers would go around and do what they were doing. They were arrested on multiple occasions. All right. Charles Manson shot somebody and was named by the person he shot by name.

Yep. His followers were arrested multiple times. One time, four of them were arrested for seducing a sheriff deputy's son at a party giving him drugs and they proved that he had drugs in his system. And one of those girls had a federal warrant. Several times. These are just two occasions that I can take off the top of my head. These people were arrested, brought to jail. They had federal warrants and the police let them go.

And each time, these two times, but other times, there's a third character that these people said came and visited them. Okay. And what the hell is his name? I'm trying to get... This guy, this third character started a crash pad in the Haight-Ashbury and he was CIA, lifetime CIA. But he started a hippie crash pad, man. Cool dude, guy. Complete with lava lamps and shade carpet and all the LSD and amphetamines he could take. Right. And he was somewhere else and then he...

I've seen pictures of this character. He was straight up military from the 1940s, but he had long hair and he started himself like a little crash pad for these hippies. He was kind of like a control guy because multiple officers said that this guy came and talked to them and then they released Charles Manson or his family or whatever. Yeah. And he even claimed to have done it later in life when he was on his death store, you know what I mean? Yeah. So we're not...

And I think just to be clear, and so we don't get visited maybe by people, is we're not saying Charles Manson is innocent. We're just saying that he might have been provoked as part of a CIA... Oh, Charles Manson is not innocent. Yeah. That's not the issue. No. The issue is, was Charles Manson a product of a CIA program to try to make a Charles Manson?

Right. Was Charles Manson generated by the government on purpose to prove that they could do manipulation of weak, quote unquote, weak individuals? He was already borderline psychotic. He was already borderline psychotic. But was Charles Manson a product of the government? Right? Yep. And the government's very angry about people saying that, especially the people directly involved. Yes. So all these connections that Charles Manson had were never brought up in his trial.

Not once was it brought up in his trial. This is all covered up. His time there spent with these CIA people not... Next fact. This is a fucking fact. Charles Manson's ranch was subject to the largest Los Angeles County raid they had ever done up to 1970. They found illegal weapons. They found stolen car parts. They found underage girls that were runaways. They found illegal drugs.

Every member of the Manson family was arrested and every one of them was released from jail and none of them were charged. That makes sense. Totally. And by that I mean it doesn't. Especially when at least three of them had federal charges and they were on parole. Well, it makes sense if it's part of a CIA plot, you know what I mean? Or a CIA test. It makes sense if you actually want justice or anything like that, but otherwise, yes, it makes sense. Right. That totally makes sense.

The largest raid that fucking Los Angeles County has ever done and they find a bunch of illegal stuff and every person gets to go. Insane. That's a fact that nobody disputes. Why would they do that, Nate? Only one reason I can think of. And it has nothing to do with Charles Manson being charismatic. I'll tell you that. Right. Oh, he was definitely charismatic and he definitely had this psychotic control grip. We're going to get back to that.

Over his followers, but not over the sheriff's department. Definitely not over the deputy sheriff. You can be charismatic, but you're not charismatic enough to explain away underage girls, drugs, weapons, stolen car parts. Runaways. Yeah. I mean, that's a little too much. You're not going to explain away the fact that a sheriff deputy's underage son was molested by the girls at your ranch who had federal warrants who magically got them dropped.

Yeah. The only people that are charismatic enough to make that kind of stuff go away, like visiting Epstein Island or whatever, would be like Elon Musk or politicians or royal family members, that sort of thing, but not some dude. Or people that have connections. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or money. And nobody's arguing that Charles Manson was even necessarily conscientiously aware of these connections. No. Yeah. But we'll get into why it's reasonable to think that he was a product later.

When he was arrested and they brought everybody to trial, Atkins had a lawyer and she turned against the Charles Manson. Okay. She spilled the beans. She blabbed her mouth. Magically, against her will and to her official protest, they changed her lawyer and she changed her case and she changed what she said about Charles Manson. Okay. Did you know that? I didn't. She agreed to a lawyer change? She did not agree. She protested the lawyer change.

They forced a lawyer change on her because she was not mentally equipped to make the decision legally. Oh, okay. She was still found guilty of a crime, but she was not deemed competent to choose her own lawyer. Okay. I mean, that seems totally legit. Right. It's totally legit, right? Hicks Watkins, who was the main man, the man that was involved with the actual killings, told law enforcement that they made a graveyard at the compound and they never dug up a single body.

They never looked for a body. They never went out there and dug anything. Okay. So, the guy they put in jail for killing these people said, there's 20 people out there, whatever number, he didn't have a number. He said, there's a graveyard out there. There's tons of bodies out there. They never looked for a single fucking body. Well, why is that? Weird. There's multiple cases of suicides going on in the vicinity of the ranch.

Okay. All of which are suspect, some of which in the book were gone through, but a lot of quote unquote suicides happened. A lot of them were investigated. There's layers and layers of evidence showing that Charles Manson was under government protection because why? Who knows why? Why would a drug dealer say Charles Manson shot me in the chest? He's arrested and then he's let go. I mean, he's keeping the riff-raff off the street, drug dealer.

Right. So in 1968, Charles Manson's on federal parole. And I'm throwing these facts out. Yes. I did not make a list of facts, but I'm throwing facts out. 1968, Charles Manson got approval to go to Mexico with two of his girls when he's on federal parole. The CIA at the time happened to be running drugs through Mexico at the time in the same area that Charles Manson told his parole officer who worked for the CIA that he was going to go. And the CIA officer gave him permission.

The guy above him said he couldn't go, but then Charles Manson still got to go. Oh, why not? Why not? He's a nice guy. He's a nice guy. Yep. He requested permission. His officer said, okay. The person in charge of him said no, but then still he got approved. Isn't that interesting? Isn't that interesting? I mean, everything seems above board. I don't know what you're going on and on about, Mike. That was heavy, heavy sarcasm for all of our listeners. I'm about halfway through my cigar.

Yeah, me too. It's good. It's flavorful. It's got nice ash. Shout out to us. Hey. It tastes good. I really like this one. This one's really good. Yeah, I'm glad it's not a disappointment. The rapper really wanted me to make it good. Yeah. It has very nice shelf appeal. Yes, it has nice shelf appeal. It has nice, you know, I'm sitting here smoking it appeal.

I mean, I'm in the garage so nobody else can see it and it's snowing and cold out, but if I were out and about town, everybody would say, wow, what a swell cigar that guy has. Right. No, it looks great. It smokes really good. Yes. So I'm not connecting any of these points, but we will get there. We will get there. Oh, I have faith in you, Mike. I'm throwing out little facts. I'm throwing out little facts. I'm hoping that everybody who's still listening is still connecting.

At the trial, the idea that Manson was trying to intimidate Terry Melcher was a major theme and Terry Melcher was a huge record producer who turned down a contract for him at the time. Yeah. It was a huge deal and Terry Melcher said he only met him like twice and Manson was a freak and all this stuff. Yeah. Really quick, since you're throwing out all these dates and everything, let's what was the date of the murders that got him caught? Oh, let's look it up.

I mean, I'm just trying to keep the timeline straight because he's on parole and he goes to Mexico, but is he on parole for the thing that he did or is he not yet caught for the thing? So the murders occurred in 1969, the end of 1969. Okay. So we're in 68. Manson was on federal parole from the time he was 15 years old. Okay. Yeah. He spent more years in federal prison than out. Yeah, because he was what, 31? He was 35. 35, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay.

He spent more time in prison than out of prison before the murders. Okay. I just wanted to clear up the timeline a little bit because I get a little fuzzy on dates and years and stuff. He pimped girls, he stole cars, all the shit that the Manson family was long before the Manson family. He was pimping women and stealing shit and beating people up and all that nonsense. He's a professional criminal. That's what he does. He's scumbag. It's not surprising that he was doing criminal activity.

Let's put it that way. Yeah, yeah. Easy fall guy. Easy fall guy. Easy guy if you're going to dose somebody and try to create a response. Good guy to pick. Yeah. Well, because you've got him. You got him dead to rights on his charges. He's already been found guilty and all they have to do is float by some lighter sentence or more freedom on his parole or whatever and he'll probably willingly agree to anything. You know? Right. It's manipulatable for sure.

Yes. So anyway, during the trial, during the helter skelter trial, one of the major points was that Terry Mulcher said, oh, he killed the Tate and those people because he wanted to send a message to Terry Mulcher that he wanted a record deal. And Terry Mulcher only met him a couple of times and blah, blah, blah. Well, Nate, turns out Terry Mulcher and Charles Manson were very friendly with each other. OK. And they met at least three times after the murders.

I guess that message went through then, huh? Yep. During the murders, there was a groundskeeper who magically didn't hear any of the gunshots that were going on. Yeah. Well, he had his his AirPods in, right? And he was listening to Marilyn Manson. They actually said that he smoked marijuana and listened to a loud record. OK. So he couldn't hear gunshots. Yeah. How far away was he? He was on the property.

Yeah. He was in like a groundskeeper's house, like 150 feet away or whatever from a fucking 38 special. I don't know what the actual caliber was. I'm guessing it's a 38. I don't know. I should look at them. I'm guessing it was a 38. So I know Hollywood likes to tell everybody that if you put a silencer on a gun, you can't hear it and it's absolutely silent. And to these people, I say you've you've never been around a gun that's that's fired.

I mean, I've never been around a silencer, but everything I've read about silencers, not that I've read about them, is that they dampen the sound a bit, but it's not not silent. You can't go through and shoot somebody at a urinal and the person at the next urinal doesn't hear it. You know what I mean? I this is a total aside. I have a buddy who has a silencer for his 45. And it's like nine inches long.

And when you shoot it, all you hear is the slide going and the bullet going out because you still hear that error. You know, you hear it break the sound barrier. You don't hear the bang. It muffles all that bang noise, so you hear the slide and you hear that like that. OK, very convincing. I mean, it's pretty close to the movies, but not quite. You know what I mean? The guy would shoot it without hearing protection. Yeah, but. But we're not we're not saying Manson was using a silencer.

I'm just saying that guns are an awful lot louder than anybody in Hollywood would have you believe if that's your only exposure to gunshots. Assuming that they use the 38, which is a very common round at the time. Yeah, we both own firearms that shoot a 38. Yeah, and they're loud. There's no reason to think that you would. I mean, it's fucking loud. Especially out of a snub nose barrel or even a four inch barrel. That's a loud firearm. Oh, it's so loud.

But I don't think in 69 that there were records there weren't like death metal records or rap records that had gunshots as part of the soundtrack or the background music. So unless he's like really blasting the turtles to everything, there is a season turn, turn, turn. He's still going to hear it. You know, there's just no music loud enough. There's no fucking way. Another aside, there was a guy who claimed that he went up there to the site and cleaned it up.

The RCA guy, Wilton, said he went up there and cleaned it up. OK. Yeah. He cleaned up the site to make it look more believable. Yeah. Or whatever. That's just set dressing in Hollywood. Hollywood comes into effect because Terry Melcher, it was Doris Day's son, who is Hollywood where he was a gold label executive record producer and he had serious ties with Manson. He claimed that he didn't know Charles Manson, all a law. His groundskeeper for a year and a half was a member of the Manson family.

OK. And he had his main groundskeeper was a member of that family and he was definitely tied to Charles Manson. He knew that motherfucker. Yeah, no doubt. And also they covered up for Roman Polanski during the investigation. There's layers and layers of corruption. That's why it gets so confusing. During the Manson investigation, Polanski was involved in that. Polanski was Sharon Tate's husband, my bro. Oh, sorry. But he's done some fucked up shit, hasn't he? Roman Polanski?

Yeah. Roman Polanski was raping people. Is he on the run still? Or did he die? I don't know. Yeah, he's on the run still. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's in Eastern Europe. He can't come into Interpol or the United States. Yeah. Yeah. So like Sharon Tate was his wife and Roman Polanski was her husband and they killed his wife when he was gone. Yeah. And there was some fucked up shit going on. The cops admitted that they found a sex tape with Roman Polanski and his wife.

The initial thing said that Roman Polanski was doing some real messed up stuff. Not really clear, but they think that it was like Sharon Tate was being raped in it. OK. And then the second version of the story was, oh yeah, it was Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate having sex and they just. It was consensual. Or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. They followed the sex tape. Adjust your VHS tracking and it's clearly not a rape if you adjust the tracking on that VHS. Right.

There's layers of corruption to this whole fucking deal. Yeah. Layers of corruption. That's why it's so confusing is because everybody's implicated in different crimes for different reasons. It seems that everybody has their own motive too. So. It makes the perfect crime because everybody has their own motive to lie. Yeah. If Sharon Tate was upset with Roman Polanski for his nefarious behavior that he's still on the run from and for, then she has a motive.

But then he has a motive to off her and have Charles help him and all that. So yeah, it gets very complicated and I think. Well, Terry Melcher was involved with Roman Polanski. Yeah. There's rumors that they were having gang bangs at the house and then they refuted that later. But the rumors were they're having like these crazy orgies where the Manson family were involved. Yeah. And yeah. I mean, that's what you do, right? There's layers of shit piled on top of it.

You get hopped up on LSD amphetamines and then you do gang bangs with runaways and underage girls, right? Right. Well, that was another part of it is that the official story is that Manson was just using LSD. But then Tex Wachsens, who also said that they had a bunch of bodies buried, said, yeah, they were doing speed all the time. So the official story was that they weren't using amphetamines.

But then one of the Manson family members who was directly involved with the murders said, yeah, we were doing speed constantly. So they're not even being truthful about the drugs they were using. Yeah. Very interesting. You know, I mean, it's kind of the same thing with the war on drugs, right? Like, after so long of the war on drugs, I'd like to give a big hand to drugs for winning that war, you know?

But back in that era, you know, that's where that bad stigma for marijuana and LSD and all these other things because the government didn't want people to have those things. But this played into the government's hands as far as banning LSD and marijuana for sure. Yeah. And potentially it was a CIA operation. There's still like a little morsel that ties it all together at the end. Oh, yeah. It ties it all together at the end. Hey, should we?

This is a complete aside, has nothing to do with the topic of this episode. Should we try and find some like LSD cigars, do you think, for an episode? I don't think they make that, that we can legally get in the United States. Well, we could, you know, go to Mexico. I wouldn't trust anything like that. I would have to get it from a reputable source. We could totally go to Mexico for that episode, someplace where it was legal and smoke it.

Sure. Yeah. I would, we could talk about it later, but I don't think. No, no, I know. I'm just, yeah. I don't think smoking LSD would be the way to do LSD, but. No, I've tried LSD. I've never done it. Allegedly. And it was illuminating for sure, but horrifying. Horrifying. I can imagine, but I feel like if you're in a safe spot, it's probably not quite as scary. I think it's more about your mind space. You know? Yeah. At the time I had a major ego. What?

And that fucked me right in the ass for sure. Yeah. Right in the ass. I was fucked. I don't mean anything mean by that. I just mean like, you know. Oh, dude, I know. I mean, you know. We know each other. We all know. We've talked about it, both of our egos on the show before, so. Should come as no surprise. Both of us have major egos. That's why we hated each other when we first met each other. Yeah. We both had a lot of egos, spent enough time around each other and they got comfortable.

And now we've got one massive shared ego. Right. Exactly. Well, I think we both got older and wiser about her. Yeah. I mean, I don't know about the older part, but definitely wiser for sure. I think that both you and I learned that we're not correct all the time. You know what I mean? I think when we first met each other, both of us were convinced that we were right all the time. Yeah. And everything was black and white. I'm right like never, like very rarely.

And now I'm convinced that everything is gray and I don't know what's going on and why are people screaming and crying? I don't know. Right. Like I'm convinced. But here we are. If I think I'm right, I should probably take more information in. Yeah. Yeah. Come up with a better answer. So anyway, back to the Manson case.

What we're all getting down to here is Helter Skelter was the lynchpin for the Manson family because Charles Manson mind controlled these people and he wanted to start a race war. Yeah. But all the evidence shows he had nothing to do with a race war. The main people who talked against Manson gave contradictory evidence and Terry Mulcher was a main person that talked about him because it was all about scaring Terry Mulcher. But Terry Mulcher's a family involved with his enterprises.

Terry Mulcher met with Manson several times afterwards. We all know this. The Terry Mulcher thing is bullshit. They were tied into each other. Yeah. But nobody disagrees that Manson committed the murders. For sure. Yeah. We all know this. The sticking point is the motive behind it and who else might be implicated. We all know Manson did it, but it's who else shares the blame. Exactly.

So of the people that were murdered, there was Folger, the girl Folger, who was the heiress to the Folger fortune. The coffee people. The coffee people. Her boyfriend, who was some Portuguese guy or a Polish guy. Okay. That was good buddies with Roman Polanski. There was a hairdresser who was like a top in Sharon Tate. So Sharon Tate's hairdresser. Sharon Tate's hairdresser slash ex-boyfriend.

Okay. Roman Polanski's buddy and Roman Polanski's buddy's girlfriend, who happened to be a Folger heiress, okay? Yes. Roman Polanski's buddy, who was the boyfriend of the Folger heiress, was a drug dealer. Hard drug dealer. Yeah. No doubt about it. Who also got into arguments with members of the Manson family about their drug deal. Okay. That was never talked about in the court, but that is a fucking fact. The Folger heiress girl, she's out, there's no real connection that we know of.

Yeah other than wrong boyfriend. Wrong boyfriend, wrong time. The hairdresser had ties. Oh jeez. That's on me. That's on you. That's on me. Sorry people. I have a little list on my phone and I pressed the wrong button and it started making noise. I'm sorry people. That's how you know when you're old. Your phone does something you don't want it to do and you're like, I guess, yeah, that's my bad. But I do think the autoplay videos are terrible on a lot of mobile sites and stuff.

Well it's about addiction. If they want to get you in. Yeah. And I want out. If they can make you watch one, they can make you watch 20. I've been telling everybody I want out. I fall into it too. I find myself an hour later, I'm not joking. It's fucking insane. I fall into it. You should have a kid because when they're two, I was just talking to Sarah about this tonight. I'm like, I don't even have time when our daughter's awake to listen to a full three minute song without being interrupted.

So you would never fall into that trap because it wouldn't happen. Yeah. I find myself sitting on the toilet and I look at the time. That's my sanctuary now. I'm like, what the fuck happened to my time? I'm sitting on the toilet. What's going on? So anyway, there's layers here people. There's layers here people. The one guy who was Roman Polanski's best buddy was a known drug dealer bringing drugs into the United States, tied in with other people who were all arrested and put in prison later.

Yeah. Who was undoubtedly selling drugs to the Manson family. Undoubtedly. Oh, yeah. The hairdresser had ties to the mafia and the CIA. OK. And this guy interviewed his assistant who took over the business and the mafia guys all told him, hey, you're OK. You're not going to you're OK. You just keep on cutting her hair. So the mafia guys, apparently they why the hairdresser was involved with this killing. According to this hairdresser, who knows? Maybe he was lying.

Yeah. The hairdresser guy that was that was killed had ties to the CIA. He had ties to the mafia. He was deeply in debt. He was deep into this sphere. OK. That's what it was. It was definitely not an innocent. And his protege claimed that these mafiosos were aware of why and how everything was going on. And for those who are not up on this, the mafia and the unions and the fucking federal government are all tied together, especially back in the 60s. We all know.

Yeah. And they're probably more so now, but but just less in public or less in public view. It wasn't publicly known at that time. No, not at the time. I'm saying I don't think anything's changed. I don't think anything's changed either. Big unions and mafia and see like government alphabet programs are all tied together. Yeah. And this guy had connections and he might have pissed people off. Nobody really knows. He's too deep state to really know, but it's possible.

Yeah. So it is possible that Charles Manson was angry at these people because of the orgies that were supposedly not happening, but wink, wink were happening. Yeah. That he was funding girls for because he had a bunch of runaway teenage underage sex slaves. And he was angry at her, aka the guy that was Roman Palantese's best buddy. He might have just killed him because he was pissed off about, you know, them welching his sex slaves or watching on his drug deal or whatever.

Doing too much for drugs. Like who knows anything. Right. There's reasonable explanations other than the helter skelter defense and the helter skelter defense was boosted because enough being a loser lifetime criminal still hated black people and thought that he was because he was white. He was better than black people. Who was this now? Lifetime Charles Manson was a avowed racist. Okay. Yeah, he thought he he thought black people were scum.

That's where they built the helter skelter defense because he was a rabid racist. Yeah. Which again, he's like a loser. Well yeah. Scum of the earth. That's par for the course for. Right. Par for the course. He thought he was better than black people even though he was a criminal junkie piece of shit. But yeah. So there's a lot of evidence to show that there's other motives, let's say, for the murders than helter skelter. Right.

There's tie ins with multiple people with other that Charles Manson has tie ins with and there's no clear reason why anything is going on. But we're pretty clear that it's not helter skelter. Yeah. Of all of the things that you've shared thus far, the one thing that's constantly stuck out with all the CIA, the mind control experiments and the underage women and the orgies and Roman Polanski, that all just screams to me race war.

So it definitely is the most viable option of all of the things that you've told me. Yeah. Is the drug deal gone bad or some other reason? Or just two big egos at the same bowling alley. Right. They could have been two big egos at the bowling alley and I'll tell you what, stabbings have happened for less.

Yeah. Well, and that kind of goes back to the economic hitman book where one person said that the economic hitman book didn't make sense because $4 million isn't a high enough sum to kill somebody for. And it's like, well, look, dude, somebody's been killed over a $5 bill, I'm sure. Like I know it somewhere out there. Well, Richard Klinsky, the Iceman, used to kill people for like $100,000 and he was a professional. You know what I mean? Yeah. Of course. Of course.

We could cover that book at some point in the future, by the way. I have it. I've read it. Okay. Iceman. Pretty interesting stuff. Yeah. We'll put it on the docket. Anyway, here's the linchpin. Here we go. Here's the linchpin. We talked about Haight-Ashbury Clinic and these two doctors that were CIA type operatives. And the fact that Charles Manson was a regular there for a year. The guy who founded the Haight-Ashbury Clinic never got his doctorate in psychological medicine.

Okay. But he did his research and he published it and he worked for the CIA his whole life, by the way. Okay. On rats. And he created rat environments and mouse environments where he would create a dominant rat that would create a harem of men and maniacally murder beta males. Yep. And they would run around with these harem of women and kill beta males and have this psychotic society.

And he induced it without drugs and then he induced it with drugs and he used LSD and he used amphetamines and he used a combination of the fact. Okay. And he was doing research specifically to try to create ubermenches in rats. Okay. That's what his specialty was. So the guy involved with the clinic that Charles Manson was going to specifically tried to create a Charles Manson but in rats. And he was funded by the CIA and worked for MKUltra.

Yep. Did he try to create the ubermench man with drugs? Come on now. He's a professional. He doesn't let his research blend with his outreach. He never got his doctorate name but he worked for the CIA his entire life. Yeah. You know what? You don't need a doctorate. He did research specifically in creating a drug induced ubermench type character. Do you think his rat was named Charlie? Is that a coincidence? Is that a coincidence?

I would say no but again and I think it's an important time for our usual disclaimer, his Mike and I are not doctors or lawyers so get your legal and medical advice from somewhere else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just somebody who wants to learn and sometimes the more you know. And his partner in crime happened to be the guy in charge of MKUltra who was trying to do mind control with LSD.

So the guy who was specifically involved trying to create ubermench rats got in contact, ran the clinic with another guy who was trying to do mind control with drugs. Yeah. These two fucking guys mixed with the CIA operative that was Charles Manson's parole officer mixed with this other fucking fourth guy that said that he cleaned up all Charles Manson messes. You don't think that those four fucking characters could have assisted with this mess? This is a clear cut case of racism.

I'm just saying, does it make sense for some hippie dude that was a career criminal who got off on multiple federal charges after he was already a felon? Yeah. Right. The largest raid in LA County's history. He shot somebody and he was named by the person he shot and went to jail and got out. Yep. Atkins, who was one of the girls that went against him, was arrested for drugging and raping a minor whose father was a fucking sheriff's deputy. Yeah. How can all this happen? Quote unquote.

I'm putting big air quotes. How can all these? There's multiple missing people's reports and suicides. He went through a couple of them. Very clearly these people probably did not get a suicide. There's no reason for a 23-year-old man who had a good job, who was going to college to commit suicide in a fucking shitty ass motel in the middle of the desert for no reason. Who was on a hiking trip? No reason. Well, and I think, let's just go back a few seconds here, 45 seconds, a minute and a half.

The woman who raped an underage person who happened to be the son of the sheriff. This does not scream to me intelligence. A lot of the random stuff that Charles Manson was arrested for and then let go and got off the hook on were not smart crimes. It wasn't like he was some kind of Rain Man character or somebody who is incredibly brilliant and doing these really like thinky and logical things. The prosecution was like, hey, you almost got us that time. You're really smart and bright.

It's a stretch to say that he premeditated something in order to start a race war for anything. He probably didn't even know what he was going to order at a restaurant until he got there and looked at the men. You know what I mean? Like he's not, he doesn't strike me or his clan doesn't strike me as plan a headers. No. And if you listen to a Charlie Manson interview, it's psychotic. And if you listen to his music, it's good as far as like shitty folk music that's old timey goes.

But it's not like I say, it reminds me of Mississippi Delta blues, but it's not Lead Belly. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not like that crisp sharp, like I murdered a man because he slept with my wife. Bang! Like, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't have that like crispness, which for our listeners who have never listened to Lead Belly, you should. He's fantastic. I made my Sarah have nightmares by listening to that bill. So now I've never listened to Lead Belly. Oh, it's scary.

As you know, and maybe some of our listeners don't know is we have a fairly sizable record collection and we don't have any Lead Belly. So you'll have to send me or give me now the names of a couple of albums I should be on the lookout for to round out our vinyl collection. I wouldn't get a record by Lead Belly. I don't know if I mean, I'm sure he does. Cody Guthrie or Cisco Houston, they're so ancient that they don't put records out anymore for those guys.

That's like a deep dark heart of America 1930s, 1940s, like grit. You know what I mean? Like work. But his stuff's available like online. So what's what's an album? What's a good starting point for Lead Belly then? Or your favorite record? I'll get back to you on that. I get back. OK, all right. I don't want I don't like it called out on that. I would say a good starting point would be Intoxicated Rat by Cisco Houston. OK, which is a very happy song.

And it's about a rat that gets really drunk and does things he should not do. Is the rats name Charlie? No, it's not. It's not. But blacklisted by the FBI. And he had to change his name and became a radio DJ afterwards. All those guys are like, no, not after that song, but after his music career. A lot of these guys joined the merchant Marine during the Second World War and they were anti-fascists. But a lot of them were way too socialist for comfort. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So yeah, their guitar killed fascists, but they also spouted socialist lies. Ha ha ha. Yes. And led Billy led Billy is a guy who the apocryphal story was that he murdered his wife. He didn't actually murder his wife. He stabbed his girl, his wife's boyfriend, and he went to jail. And he's saying so pretty that the warden let him out, which was not true. He served his time, which is only like five years at the time. And then he became an outstanding member of society.

But the apocryphal story is that he murdered his lover and he got out of prison because he sang so pretty. The truth is he stabbed his wife's boyfriend and got out after five years and then divorce his wife and got a nicer wife. Yeah. But also saying pretty. So that part checks out Billy is like I say, if you if you're not listening to led Billy, you're not listening to blues music.

Yeah, I played Sarah a couple of songs where he Suzy Suzy Q. I think it was Suzy Q where it's like, OK, talks about like murdering a woman. Yeah. I showed her all the facts and she's like, that's so dark and she didn't sleep. But yeah, I'll have to get back to you with that. I'll bring it. Yeah, sounds good. But anyway, the whole point of this episode is Helder Skelter. And I didn't get into Bugliosi. Gosh, I wish I would have gotten a Bugliosi. He's the prosecutor.

OK, so the prosecutor, he's psychotic. And he went after the milkman and he had multiple paternity tests on his children. He went after this guy, the milkman sued him back and won a shit ton of money off of him. He's a psycho. He was directly involved with being like corrupt as shit and using his power as a prosecutor to create criminal acts. He's implicated in crimes as well. So the guy who who did the Charles Manson investigation is a criminal. Yeah, also. That's another layer, by the way.

I just pop. I know I popped that on the end, but the guy who was the fucking lawyer was a criminal. He's a liar. We know he's a perjurer. He's straight up like a piece of shit. Should not have been a lawyer at all. So I guess that's an additive thing. I can't believe I forgot that. Yeah, Bugliosi is garbage. He should have been in person. Yeah, he shouldn't have been trying anything.

No, he should have been trying to get went after a guy who was and who did not fuck his wife and to the point where even his wife said that he should be committed to a psych ward during the lawsuit. Yeah. Yeah. Like, so even the lawyer or the guy who got Manson arrested is a psycho who is, again, weak to insinuation. Let's put it that way. You know what I mean? Yeah. If there was a conspiracy, he'd be somebody that would be vulnerable to their coercion because he's not legitimate.

He'd be willing to play along. What does he care? Yeah, he's got to play along. He's a fucking scumbag. Yeah, he's already flexed his authority, so he wouldn't care doing it one more time. Right. He's already been implicated in crimes himself. Did that guy keep his prosecutor job or did he finally get brought to trial? Yeah, he ran for district prosecutor several times and he ran for district attorney or not district attorney.

He ran for district attorney several times, then he ran for secretary of state or whatever it is for the state of California. Every time he did, all these stories about him being a fucking crazy psycho came out and then he's back down. He kept being a prosecutor, but he never made it past being just a regular ass prosecutor, even though he prosecuted the biggest crime in human history, Charles Manson, because he's a fucking criminal. He's a criminal himself.

Yeah. I'm not saying anything about what's true, but what I know is true is that the official story is a lie. I don't know what the truth is, but I know what they're telling me is a lie. Yeah, and I think at this point, it's 2023, the chances of anyone knowing what the actual truth is, is pretty slim. Yeah, that died in the 90s. That died with the people directly involved. Yeah. Did you know any of that, Nate? I did not. I mean, I knew.

You said that Beach Boy thing was going to come back, but was there anything else at the beach? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Brian Wilson later committed suicide. Well, I thought they got freaked out by Manson and cut ties with him. That was the story. That's where Terry Melcher comes in, because these guys met with him several times after the fucking murders. They weren't freaked out about him until after he got charged.

That's where Terry Melcher was tied with Brian Wilson, and Brian Wilson and Terry Melcher were doing lots of drugs, all tied in with the Manson family. These guys met with them several times after the murders. Only after the murders did they push themselves away. Then later, Brian Wilson committed suicide because he did too many drugs. These guys were involved with a lot of crazy shit. I'm not going to lie. They might not even have known all the crazy stuff they were involved with. Probably not.

I mean, maybe not. I don't know. It's tough to say. It's impossible to say at this point. Yeah, but on one hand though too, and I'm not trying to drag people's names to the mud and things like that, but the people that have gone to F-Scene Island and say, well, I didn't know what was going on. There's no way, dude. You know what I mean? The Manson girls. Brian Wilson and Terry Melcher were fucking the Manson girls. A lot of them were underage, runaway type people.

One of the defenses that Terry Melcher and Brian Wilson used were that their friends at the time were these Hollywood hotties. The Manson girls were perfectly good looking young women. If you look at pictures of them, I mean, you're a man and I'm a man. There's only a certain level of attractiveness where it passes a certain threshold. It doesn't matter after that. If you're a powerful man, I'm not a powerful man, but if I was in their position and I could fuck them all, I would. I get it.

I get what their mindset would be. You know what I mean? I'm going to get the mindset, but the way that kind of comes to the underage thing. Don't lie to yourself. This is 1969. The level of attractiveness doesn't hide the age. Nate, when you're at an orgy, again, the accusation was they were having orgies and Manson would bring girls to the orgy.

I'm not an orgy goer, but if you're in an orgy and there's a guy that brings a lot of young attractive women, he's probably going to be on your okay list. Most people at the orgy aren't bringing 10 to 15 attractive young girls. Most people at the orgy, and I'm not trying to say that anything's okay. Most people at the orgy are not checking IDs if you're already in the orgy. They're definitely not. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've never been to an orgy. I don't know.

Well, they're on LSD mind control by Charles Manson, who potentially was a product of CIA training by people who produced the same result in Rats. Yeah. Recorded. Oh, also, this is all verified fact. These guys all worked for the CIA. This is all factually true. They denied it for years, but it's been proven. Right? They did. Yeah. For sure. No doubt.

That's why I didn't include that, but they argued against their involvement, but later it's like, yeah, it was proven they were on the CIA payroll. Yeah. Very interesting. Like I say, the official story is one thing. These layers and layers and layers of shit, I don't think that it was an outright conspiracy to try to create Charles Manson. I think that there's a lot of crazy stuff going on that ended up with Charles Manson. Not necessarily by mistake.

Kind of on purpose, but they covered it up afterwards. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's been in the system since 15, and it's not like somebody, whenever he first got introduced to the CIA and the LSD, the CIA, let's just say it was a CIA plot. It's not like the CIA knew he was going to go be friends with Polenski and be able to kill Sharon Tate for Polenski. Let's just assume they're all in on it. That would require an amount of foresight that nobody could possibly have.

No. You know what I mean? I would agree that it was probably an experiment that got too big for them to contain, and they figured they could do a favor for Polenski or whatever, what have you. Then they let Manson take the fall. Not that he shouldn't have taken the fall because he's a shit anyway, but that tied up their experiment nicely and nobody would ask any more questions. He was definitely an easy fall guy by design. Yeah. Where are you at your cigar? I just put it down.

Okay. I'm about to put mine down. I've got about an inch there, and it's been good all the way throughout. It's starting to get a little hot now. I don't know if I would roach clip this one, but this one was very good. This was a nice, nice, nice surprise for me just because of the flavors that we did, the flavor series where there was only one that was phenomenal and one that was moderately decent, and then the rest were very, very iffy. All in all, this one is a really good stick. I agree.

If you found this at a cigar shop, I would suggest buying it. Yeah. It's good. It was a decent stick all the way through. Not a lot of flavor change. No, not a lot of flavor change. Not a bad thing. No, it was solid. It was consistent. It looks great with the little Connecticut strip or band throughout, and it's robust. It's a pretty sexy looking cigar as far as shelf appeal. I would recommend it for sure. Yes, me as well. All right.

We hope you know more about the Manson family, and join us next week for our next CAO Country Series. Be safe. Have fun.