And now move the sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks? DJ? Buck with you? Buck? How are you doing? Man?
Man? I'm good, DJ, And I'm good because I know we're going to have a great episode. I know we're going to talk about drafting the contenders, the teams that we think are legit when it comes to having a chance to go the distance. But I need to pick your brain a little bit because I have all these conversations obviously your tie with the Chargers.
My time with the Jaguars.
Sometimes you get into these discussions, sometimes with co workers, sometimes with fans about what's going on, what can you do?
And one of the questions that has kind of come up to.
Me has been, can you be a team that drafts quote unquote good guys, good character guys, But can you comprise that same team with enough dogs to compete at a high level. So what I want to lean into you and have a conversation like we would if we were in the room talk about dogs, and we talk about like those high level competitors when we're on school calls and when we're looking at the process, the pre
draft process. How can we determine the guys that are dogs versus the guys that are super talented.
But they may not have that that dog.
Persona that you need, that you have to have to be able to get to the next level.
Well, there's that old line from Tony LaRussa. Right, when your best players are your best leaders and your best workers, you've got something special, right, that's the that's the ultimate goal, because you can you don't. We won't put them in two camps of like, here's the high character you know, good dudes, and then here's the ultimate warrior. Maybe maybe some character flaws there, but there's some dog in those guys, like you, you know, I think you can have your
cake and eat it too. Those guys are few and far between. They're hard to find, the guys that have all those things.
Workings of the world.
Oh, John Lynch was the one that came to mind, you knowbody like that. Yeah, So there's there are guys. I mean, Derek Brooks is another one. I mean, just thinking off of that one, that one team, but that I think the uh, the common thread. Right, if we're going to say the great teams, they will have that competitive nature to them. That's the common thread. Now some of the stuff, you might have a little bit a little bit more buttoned up player and then maybe someone
who's maybe had some transgressions or made some mistakes. But if they don't share that that trait, I don't think you have a good team. I think you have to collect as many of those guys as you can. Now, the harder question that you asked is how do you find that out about guys. There's a lot of different ways you can do it. I think some simple things who are the guys that who are the guys that watch the most tape at or away from the facility?
And there's ways to get that information. Now, I mean you can trust out there, you can track it on your high school team. You can how much kids? How much your kids watching huddle? Yeah, So you can start there by developing relationships with video guys and different things like who's watching the most. Okay, let's that's a that's
a good one. Who's when you go out to practice, who's the front of the line, who's leading drills, Who's who's bringing energy and life to a practice, especially in the middle of the season of mundane you know, Wednesday practice who's out there, Who's who's bouncing around and has some life to him? Who's holding other guys accountable? From that standpoint, I think going in there and uh, I'm not. I think the worst question in scouting are the one to ten, one to ten? How would you rate him
as a worker? Like no, no, no, no, this guy? What time does he come in? How long is he stay? What does he do? What does he do? Beyond that? And you can talk to him, you can talk to his teammates. What do you like? Everybody has the same schedule. I don't care about that. Tell me outside of that schedule what you're doing and how you're preparing And because buck, I think to boil it all down, like where is its importance at for you?
Like?
How important is this to you? That tells you if you got to it's.
Funny because you took me to where my mind goes is. I think it's as simple as like it or love it? Do you like it or do you love it? Because if you like it, you may clock in and do bankers hours. Hey, I come in at eight, I'll leave it five. If you love it, you're coming in early and you're staying late and you're obsessed with it. You're
obsessed with different parts of it. That leads you to get to the facility early, That leads you to watch even more tape when you get home, because there's a level of pride in your performance that you take that you have to be the most prepared in it. Now everyone and I would say this, like the Detroit Lions of kind of look they talked about grit, right, that's kind of the moniker that they always talk about. Angela Duckworth talks about grit is the combination of passion and perseverance.
So how much do I love it? How much does it mean to me?
How much do I love it enough to go through the setbacks that I have to go through to get on the other side.
To me, DJ, I'm.
Looking for guys that love it, and it's not you telling me like we all have done those baked those canned interviews with the players.
Yeah you love football or whatever.
No, no, no, show me how much you love it by me being able to not only ask people what you do around the facility, me being able to document how much you're in the game, but me also seeing you display that energy and enthusiasm about the game, in practice, in film, in games, you can just sense those guys that are I would say culture changers because when they're on the field, like you feel them. We've all been
around those guys that did it. You were in Baltimore, so you saw Ray Lewis and Ed Reied and what they brought every day to the tape and how they made everybody else respond to me, I think when we're talking about the draft process and we're talking about building a team, man, having the love it guys is probably more important than the most having the most talented guys.
Where do you stand on recall? Because I know, you know we always tell the story about Mahomes with recall, But I always say, like you think about when you're growing up and you go to Disneyland and your parents will say you remember this day the rest of your life. Well, why will you remember it the rest of your life? Because it was important, It was important, and it's burned memory. So if you're talking to players, the more specific they can get. I can go back, Hey, week three, you
were playing this team. I don't care what position you are, and you can tell me a lot of specifics, a lot of information about that game. You know why because you studied a ton before that game. You were in the moment and took everything in and were aware and concentrate and focused during the game, and then after the game you went back and watched it and studied it and learn from your mistakes. So like you maintain all this is not like scramming for a test that's in
and out. Like, that's not the people that you want. You want the people that have a little bit of an obsession with this thing and both their preparation, their
focus and then learning from those games. That's why I think those guys that have recall and can tell specific instances about you know, what coverage we were in, or what formation they were lined up in, or what this guy said or what the coach told me in between plays in the third series of the second Like, I think that shows you that it matters to them.
I think, and we keep referencing Luke Keigley, And the reason why I referenced him is because I think our conversation with Luke Keigley are so fascinating. And it's not fascinating in terms of just the knowledge that he shares, but it is the recall, it is the attention to detail with which he shares that information DJ. To me, that's kind of like the standard because the great ones that we've been around they have that.
You think about our casual conversations.
Pat Mahomes is always one that we referenced when he came into the studio and he's able to recall the game versus k State where you asked him about hey man, this play that happened, and to think and how he could just dial it up and give you that information.
To me, that's what it's about.
It is going above and beyond the normal expectations of a player to be able to outline detail, articulate, follow up, give feedback, take feedback. Those are the things that matter, and the teams that have the advantage in the scouting world are the ones who are willing to do a
little extra to make sure their guys have it. We've talked other things, probably about the advantages that you now have with Zoom and how you can interview guys far more than you could back in the day when we were doing it and it was just face to face and the train station and the combine and those things.
You now can periodically check in on guys to know how much they really know, and you never know until you get someone in the building, but you can tell by the preparation process and how they take everything seriously or whatever.
So that's a.
Question that has kind of come up to me and sometimes like, yeah, I can stand on the thing, but I like to have these conversations so the aspiring scouts that we have listening to the thing, they can think a little deeper about the process and the types of guys that you want, because it goes is beyond the traits and the talent. A lot of times, it's it's a nasty that people show when it comes to being able to get to the next level.
It's funny. That's why I like to go back and read reports. And you know, since crossed over into the media, this will be I think this will be my thirteenth draft coming up maybe uh oh wow, yeah, here you've been here a couple of years.
Long, twin so fifteen going on to sixteen.
Yeah, so this is my on this side of things. So when I've gone to this side, I just put out a top one fifty players. I keep my notes on four hundred players inside an Excel sheet, but I write a summary on just the top fifty. So but fifty is a good sample size to go back over thirteen years. And we've done it with hits and missus before, or I've gone through in red old reports.
Buck.
It is very rare for me to read a report and have the physical ability change on a player, very rare. And I'll say, Okay, gosh, this guy was my forty ninth player the physical stuff, man, but he's ended up being he he should have been the first player in the draft. I'm like, yeah, but if you read the physical stuff, like, there's not much has changed from the physical I didn't know this guy was a psycho competitor.
I didn't know this guy was going to you know, dial in his nutrition and change his body, you know, from from how he was in Cowage to what he is now. Like, those are the things. There's those variables that and that's that's what All these guys are talented, All these guys that come in every year, the top first round guys, they're all talented, but fifty percent of them hit, and you know, twenty five percent of them are okay, and twenty five percent of them wash out.
Why is that? It ain't because of the ability that we're watching on tape. That's not it.
Nah. This level, everyone's talented and you have a pool of players that are all similar when it comes to physical traits. The thing that separates them is the mental. Uh.
And then I would say like the heart, and like heart is like kind of cliche when people talk about that, but it really is to grind is their willingness to do anything and everything in the pursuit of something that they love, which is loving the game, but more importantly loving being one that is different than everybody else playing the game. Meaning they want to be elite in some way, shape or form with their performance, so they're willing to go above and beyond to get that done.
Yeah. No, I think it's it's that's what scouting is, man. I think again, you can give a computer to anybody and give them access to the video, and I think most people will see similar things in players and be able to project similarly. But the other stuff that you find out at a long time that that that's what the deciding factor is and that goes a long way and determine in their success.
So now let's get to the show. Let's talk about some of the stuff. Did you want to talk about.
No, I love that. I love that. Well, let's take a quick break. We'll come back and we'll get into a little draft, or we'll draft the contenders in the league. We'll do that right for this, all right, Buck, So we've got to get two of each. Right, two AFC, two NFC will each get four contenders, will do a draft. I was willing to give you the first pick, but you were proactive. You're the bigger man. You came in
and said I get the first pick. So, as someone who has the first pick and you're going to draft contenders, Buck, there are exactly two five and oh teams, two undefeated teams, one of which just happens to win the Super Bowl every year. So I think I'll go there. I'll take the Kansas City chief first pick.
So your believer, no matter what goes on, you.
Believe they just win games. I mean, I've saw it in personally. It's not aesthetically pleasing. It's not the high flying high wire act that was fun to watch in years past. But winners win, you know, and.
There is something to that.
So what's funny about the Kansas City Chiefs Everything that they said when they won their first Super Bowl has come to fruition, but it's come to fruition in a different way than we anticipated it. After they won that first one, they talked about a dynasty and how this was going to be a dynastic franchise because of what they had on offense, Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce and throwing it over the yard. They lose the next year. They didn't eventually make a move where they get rid of Tyreek Hill.
But now they come back and went back to.
Back and they've created a dynasty because they won three in a short period. They have the opportunity, it looks like, to have a three peat maybe, So they are the dynasty. And the thing that is a common occurrence for dynasties is they do whatever is necessary to win. And this is the team that knows how to do whatever is
necessary to win games. Whether it's the offense need to play with Pat Mahomes extending plays, whether it's the defense coming up with plays either through their personnel, Chris Jones and Trent McDuffie making place or Steevezpacnulo dialling up something exotic in the fourth quarter and a guy to have a situation to get off the field. They know how to do it, so I can't really dispute them being number one. So they should go to the top of
the list. So I'm good with that. So my team is gonna be one that we've talked about, and we've talked about this team because they kind of embody the city that they play in and that's Detroit. And we talked about the primetime window and why the Detroit Lions are going to be at throwing in the side for some NFC teams for a while.
They'll build the right way.
DJ A lot of times when we think of teams, we talk about the quarterback first or whatever, and I'm say, Jerry Goff is a perfect quarterback for this team. But when I look at this team, offensive line might be the best in football. They can beat you up. They can play a smash mouth style of play. That look the flashy stuff that they do on the perimeter, the AMA Saint Brown and Jamison Williams.
That stuff catches the tension. But at the end of the.
Day, when they want to win, they gonna line up and they're gonna run the football behind that offensive line and two running backs that are really good and Dave.
Montgomery and Jimier Gibbs. They can protect the quarterback.
And then defensive granted Dan Campbell for hanging with Aaron Glenn. Aaron Glenn has kind of figured it out how to play that defense. They're hurt this year by the loss of Aiden Hutchinson. That really hurt him because if he's there, I think he's a no brainer, and I think maybe you debate the number one thing. But even without Aiden Hutchinson, man,
this team is good enough to go to distance. And I would say this, they should have went the distance last year because they had all right there, right there. But the Detroit Lines my first fit.
Trust me, as a pottery fan, I know about having somebody on the ropes and not being able to finish it. But I don't know.
Sometimes, like as a boxing fan, I would say, maybe that was that was the rope of dope.
That was the dope.
But I'm gonna make sure DJ, We're gonna get you one of those replica rings, one of those replica rings that sometimes season ticket holders get.
We will send one down there to you. I've already given up on the Mets. I'm going with the Yankees now. Michael Fabiano, I need the Yankees to win that thing. Uh, that's just terrible, all right. Look, I I love Detroit. That injury is a tough injury for them. I was debating, I'll be honest with I was debating between two teams with this next pick, Houston and Baltimore. That was where I was going to go. And I'm thinking Baltimore a
little more experienced, Lamar a little more accomplished. But I'm telling you, Bucket, and I'll tell you what my pick, and then I'll ask you the question. I'm taking Houston. Which defense you trust more? Between Houston and Baltimore, which sounds weird with Baltimore's long tradition of defense. I trust Houston more as a more complete team right now defensively than Baltimore.
I can see that.
And the reason why I can see that is because, look, Dimiko Ryans finds a way to get it done, and they have a talented defense.
They've upgraded the defense.
You thinking about Danil Hunter coming over joining Will Anderson, Derek Stingle, He's one of the best corners in football. I mean, they have a lot of intriguing pieces to the puzzle, and he keeps the energy up as they're kind of going through. You know, the thing that I would say is I worry about their offensive line. I worry about their offensive line being able to help them get it done in the end because they've had some injuries.
They haven't had the greatest play from their front line unit, and I think it has impacted now, it has impacted the way the CJ. Stroud performs. That's it, man, They're really good. They're in the mix. I can see them.
I see them making making the play, making a push.
You're up what you got for your second pick?
DJ like, So this is this is tough, right.
So the the the logical person wants to say, Hey, the Baltimore Ravens, I'm gonna take them, Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry all that they're running game, they're doing that. The concerns about the defense are one and are valid, zachly where I know Dan Pieces coming over to help them. I just worry about them in the postseason. And let's be honest, my faith wanes in the Baltimore Ravens because until I see them do it in the postseason, I can't necessarily believe that they're going to do it in
the whole season. So now I'm looking at a bunch of teams that are just kind of all there. So you got Atlanta, you get the Buffalo Bills, the Pittsburgh still is the Bucks, the Packers and Eagles, the Niners. And I'm gonna say this and DJ, it's hard for me to say that I'm gonna say this team can go to super Bowl, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Let's put it out there.
Uh, let's go with M.
It's gonna be tough me. I can't believe you're.
Gonna get heat. I can already tell it you're gonna get heat.
I believe that I'm gonna say that this team I think can go all the way. But I'm gonna say this. Let's go with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as a team. Ooh, and here's why we're gonna talk about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
DJ Offensively, even when they have bad games, they still light up the scoreboard. Baker Mayfield had a bad game against the Newland Saints. They put a fifty broker on the Saints. They have found a synergy and a connection Liam Cohen and Baker Mayfield to get it going.
The thing that I always can hang my hat on is.
I know that in a one game scenari i Bulls can bring an exotic pressure package that can create chaos. When I look at the rest of the contenders, and I'm big on the Minnesota Vikings, I worry about the quarterback play Sam Donald in terms of big game.
If they can't get the game the right way, can they do it?
So I'm gonna go with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as my dark horse to be able to get it done because offensively they can put up enough points, but defensively they can create chaos with Todd Bowles sending pressure from any and everywhere.
All Right, Yeah, that's bold, man, I love it. I love it. Be bold. I'm gonna I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go Chalk. Then I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go San Francisco and say they're just bored. You know, look, they adit, Christian McCaffrey back, but they're just they're playing like a board football team. But you saw defensively, I think Bosa what they have seventeen pressures the other day
against Seattle. I mean it was unblockable. So you still got Bosa, you still got Fred Warner, You've still got all those pieces on offense, and then you throw Christian McCaffrey back in there. I think they're just kind of going through the motions a little bit right now, but I think at the end of the day, I trust them more so than any of these other teams outside of Detroit. I would have Detroit as my favorite, and the NFC I'd put San Francisco right behind him. Man.
I feel bad, man, I feel like we're just discarding the Purple people leaders in the Minnesota Viking.
I still got another pick. You're out, You're done with the You're done with the NFC. You got two AFCs you got to pick, So I've got I've got another spot. Don't worry, Minnesota, just be patient.
So now that I was worried, I expressed my concerns about the Baltimore Ravens. With this pick, I'll take the Baltimore Ravens just because I think the Ravens determine whether they go or not. I don't think it has anything to do with the opponent. I think the Ravens' biggest opponent would be themselves. One can they vanquished the ghosts that have passed that have plagued them in the past.
Lamar Jackson playing well in the postseason. Derrick Henry's addition helps that if he's healthy in the postseason, that gives them a different option. I also think that makes them continue to run the football because Derrick Henry is on the thinking the Todd Monkey can help. Will walk past the big fellow in the side and be like, oh, by the way, I got to make sure I hand it off to him.
So that's the thing. Defensively, Dean piece coming on board. I do wonder if we see a subtle shift, not necessarily that Dean Pee takes over to play calling, but he has a bigger sway, a bigger impact on the way the defensive game plan is put together. He's been around for a long time, and John Harbaugh as a Super Bowl winning coach, He's done this a ton. He knows how to get his team there. So I'm gonna go to Baltimore Rakings.
Yeah, I can't refuse anything you said there. I'm gonna end the slide here from Minnesota. They're the other undefeated team. So I've got the two undefeated teams here in Casey and Minnesota. So I'm feeling great about that. I think we'll know a lot more about Minnesota after this coming week against the Detroit Lions. But see if Sam can keep it going. He's been excellent and playing through a little bit of an injury. And then you know, defensively,
they're just fun. That is all you want to talk about, All gas, no breaks. Robert Salad's line that is that is the way they were playing defense in Minnesota. So I've got Case Houston in San Francisco, Minnesota, Buck, You've got Detroit, Tampa, Baltimore with one more pick to go.
So now this is a fun one, right, So this is a fun one because there's always a team that kind of rises from the depths, that kind of comes up and can snatch it. So my initial thing, and everyone is always on the Pittsburgh Steelers in terms of
like they don't get it done in the postseason. They're making a controversial move in Russell Wilson to put him in the mix, and I know that at first glance, you're like, why would they go Russell Wilson, I am saying, and I said this, for Russell Wilson, this is a gold jacket opportunity. This is an opportunity for him to put the Hall of Fame back in his legacy, the Hall of Fame back in the thing, and if he
does it in Pittsburgh, they will revere him forever. The Pittsburgh Steelers are just missing the dynamic and consistent play at quarterback for them to go to the next level. The combination of Justin Fields and Russel Wilson, I think can do that. I'm gonna go with Russell Wilson put into Pittsburgh Steelers in contention and being able to take them over the top because he turns back the clock in the postseason and look DJ even when he played bad last year, I think he still had four game
winning drives for fourth quarter comebacks the Pittsburgh Steelers. And this comes from a quote from Daniel Jeremiah. When they've been good, they've won with strong defense, a running game, and magical quarterback play in the fourth quarter. Stroue fourth quarter ding ding ding.
Russell Wilson. Let's go to Pittsburgh Steelers as the dark horse contender.
Okay, I'm calling an audible. I like that. I say we get one last pick because there's a couple more interesting teams. I want to get one more because let's just be our wild card. Let's say this. This is the rule on this one. You got to pick a team with a losing record.
Oh, all right, here we go.
I like that. I'm gonna go with the Cincinnati Bengals. Look at this, Look at this all right? Now, we know what Joe Burrow, when Joe Burrow's right, what that offense looks like with Jamar chasing company, Right, Te Higgins, everybody else out over there, we know what that looks like. Right, let me just show you. They're two and four. Okay, they're out the gates, inexplicable. They lose the Patriots sixteen to ten, six point loss. Right. They play the Chiefs,
the undefeated Chiefs. They lose twenty six to twenty five. They play the first place Commanders, they lose thirty eight to thirty three. Their other loss is the Ravens forty one to thirty eight. Like, for all the angst and panic out there and their start, they are two and four and their losses have all been very competitive. They are this close to flipping their record. So I'm going to say the Cincinnati Bengals. They play coming up here,
they have at the Browns. Let's say that gets them to three and four at home against the Eagles, who are beatable. That could get them to five hundred, and then they play the Raiders. We could very easily be talking about Cincinnati Bengals being over five hundred here before you can blink.
Okay, Cincinnati Bengals being the team that can get it done. Schedule does play a part in it. We're talking about long shots to be able to come from a losing record to being able to do it. Well, if I'm going to go with that, how can I not take the New York Jets in the scenario I have to.
Take the tests. Look, we can talk about the Jets being paper tigers, we can talk about all of these things. Aaron Rodgers hasn't played great.
I think it's been like twelve games since he's had over brind the yard's passing and that stuff.
But here's what I do know.
It's the combination of not only your team being good, but the schedule giving you a break. So when we talk about the schedule, yes, they played the Pittsburgh Steelers coming up Sunday night, but then dj they played the Patriots, the Texans, the Cardinals, the Colts, the Seahawks, the Dolphins, the Jags, the Rams, the Bills, and the Dolphins. I can squint my eyes and give them eight wins out of that list. That gets you to ten. That gets
you in the tournament. And the thing that we know about the tournament is a hot quarterback and a hot receiver can get him going.
Didn't like and I just said it.
We just said it on the last pocket. I said it.
I didn't really love the Devonte Adams trade because now what does it.
Do to my guy, Garrett Wilson.
Didn't know that Jeff Olbrick was going to come back in and say, hey, I've seen this before. This is Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens. Now we let him know that t O and Jerry Rice aren't the best.
I understand. I understand what he's getting at.
It is mentor mentee helping the young fellow find his way. If they can stay up and they knocking with, they stay healthy, that offensive line, Aaron Rodgers comfort level with Devonte Adams makes Devanta Adams the natural number one. It creates a greater mismatch for Garrett Wilson being the number two. And if they can commit to running the football down the stretch with Brayln Allen and Breezeall they're fornerable. The defense is good. The defense. Look, you lose Robert Salad,
but you kept the decordinator in Obrick. That defense, this is good enough to get them there. If they get into tournament, you don't want to face them, just because the prospect of dealing with the four time MVP, who at any point can turn back the clock and have one of those magical performances, gives them a punch of chance.
Let's put the New York Jets in the conversation.
I like it. I like it. I would. I would also add, by the way, just looking at schedules and looking at the team that I cover, the Chargers, buck the Chargers, and again they weren't eligible for this. They have a winning record.
I had them. I had them.
When I was debating Pittsburgh, I had the Charges right there. But I didn't want to feel like Homer, Homer guy, because it's your team.
But I know right there, well, I'm looking at him, and you've got a Monday Night or at Arizona. Then it's the Saints, then it's the Browns, then it's the Titans.
Got a chance to.
Get on a little run here, and then then it's the Bengals at home, which would be a good one, and then it's the Big Hardball Bowl on Monday, November twenty fifth. The Ravens come to so far that'll be huge. I mean they could get the Chargers. Can make this kind of interesting here as they as they continue to to kind of feel out and find their way with the new coaching staff, new schemes, defense, play lights out, offenses hasn't spurts, but you know they got some work
to do there. But man, the schedule lays out quite nicely. Anything else you want to add before we get out of here, Buck, as you get ready to get on a plane again head back to London.
Yeah, it should be a lot of fun going overseas, hopefully to see the Jaguars get a.
Dub but not.
This is fine, man.
It was great having that conversation at the beginning and then the debates over the contenders.
It's always an interesting.
One last question for me before we get out of here. Is it because we were scouts and maybe I shouldn't include you in this. I don't mind eating lunch by myself like everybody. My wife just went out with my daughter, so I've got it's lunchtime. As were recording this, I had no problems, DJ, I have no problem. We're weird.
I have no problem going to the restaurant, going to the bar, sitting there watching TV, eating again, unbothered.
I have no problem.
That is definitely a scout squirrel? Is that what people?
For sure? I got my phone, I can read articles. I got some charger stuff I need to do prep wise. I can read some some articles on the cardinals. I'll have some sushi in a restaurant. Booth for one, booth for one, please for one.
I mean anytime you've been to Las Cruises, New Mexico and you have to go out and eat on your on your on your own do yeah, I can do it solo.
I don't bother me at all at all. Yeah. Maybe I thought maybe we're weird, but I do think it is the scouting thing. I don't mind it. I don't mind it. Let us know, by the way, on uh on social media, if that uh, if that's unique to us, or if you don't mind a little meal alone, all right, that's gonna do it for I appreciate you guys hanging with Us'll see you next time. Right here on move the sticks