And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
What's up? Everyone?
Welcome to move the six. I'm Bucky Brooks. I'm here with my man Lance Z stepping in for DJ. We're gonna have a lot of good conversation because one thing that I know is whenever h Town is on the pod, he's gonna put it down up Lance, what's.
Going on, Buck? How are we doing?
Man? Were good? We kneed eep into this season.
Lance, We're well week eleven. We're entering in the National Football League season. That means that not only is the NFL going on in earnest, we got some teams that.
Are already looking ahead to the draft.
We got the college football season nearing the end where we get to money time, we got a college football playoff and all that. That means that we are beginning to look at some of these top prospects and that stuff. And we're not gonna talk about them top prospects in the twenty twenty five class today. But look, I know you're putting in a lot of work. I know you got the drive working in overtime. How's it going for you right now?
Oh? Good? I mean I'm like twenty two players down, so I got I only got about four hundred and eighty to go. But it's, you know, as my the way I do it. Everyone probably like I don't. I don't want to start on quarterbacks until I've got all their game tape. I don't. I don't want to develop any bias. I want to I want all their game tape. But I got to start writing somebody. So right now, when Jim anybody that's injured, you know, the players who've been injured that I think are gonna come out, I
wrote them up. When Senior Bowl invites are coming out right now, you know, I just wrote the tackle from Yukon, Chase Lunt. I wrote a kicker from Florida State, a punter from Alabama. I'm in the middle of. So like you, you get a Senior Bowl invite, I'm I'm getting after it because I got to have you written up anyway. So unless you're a team that's gonna be going deep, and I know you've got some other you got more
big games ahead of you. And now is about the time if I have enough tape that I can start writing these guys up. But I don't know about you from a process standpoint, I want to see you against Tennessee's defense again, typically Georgia's defense, maybe not as much this year Alabama, Like there's certain trial horses. I want
to see you against Ohio State, against Oregon. I want to see you against certain types of teams offensively or defensively, because they're going to have some pro prospects on them and you're going to be playing against pros. So why do I care what you're doing against Rutgers when I can watch you against Oregon? You know what I mean?
You know, I mean I think there's something too watching best on best, like being able to look at a prospect schedule and say, you know what, I don't need to watch them in order because a lot of people have watched the last four games and those things. I'm looking for the matchups. Who are the teams that are load with pros. I want to see how.
You perform versus those teams.
And I didn't tip you off before this, but I'm just so curious your take on You remember years ago when the Detroit lines were horrible, and you remember when they were drafting people and everyone was like, why would you take Campbell in the first round and why would you take dis.
Player and that player? Lance?
Have we learned anything from watching the Detroit Lions absolutely beat people to sleep with the rosters that suddenly looks like one of the best rosters in football? Are there some lessons that we can learn from that? At scouts, man, I think you just answer your own question. It's about, you know, if you build bully. If you want to build a bully, then you got to go get bullies. And it takes bullies to make bullies. And that's you know, Dan Campbell's that guy. I love what Brad Holmes has done.
I think Brad Holmes has done an outstanding job of understanding what their philosophy is for like what a lion looks like. And I think that's because he takes into account Aaron Glenn on the defensive side, he takes into account Ben Johnson, you know, the two coordinators. He takes into account the head coach ultimately about who is a lion? You know what a lion has looked like. You know you mentioned Taylor Decker that was the first round pick
back in sixteen. I thought, Eh, he's all right. Then they go Graham Glasgow in the same draft these two guys. Here we are eight years later, starting left tackles, starting left guard Frank Ragnow first round pick, and center and been there for six years, starting center. They ring over Zeitdler, a right guard, the right tackle Pine Sewell, first rounder. If you're running the math on that, that's three first rounders,
a third rounder, and a solid free agent. And we haven't even you know, we haven't even gotten to the
fact that they continue to draft behind it. Did an incredible job with Sam Laporta in the second round, and then Jamiir Gibbs, who everyone you know, I think that's where you trust a guy like Ben Johnson, and Ben Johnson tells you, I know it's gonna not be popular, but we want to go get a guy who can become a matchup problem, a guy who gives us a number, you know, a slasher component as a running back, and then we can line up and beat people out of
the backfield with them. And I think the Jamier Gibbs, you remember, Bucky, we were both doing it on draft day. It was not you know, typical draft thought is you don't draft a running back in the first round unless they're really special, and he's not a twenty five carry a game guy or twenty game But man, has he been special? And I think you know and I'm looking up and down. I mean smart free agent moves like
Ali McNeil was really really smart. They got DJ Reader like Alex Anzelone who's kind of a specialist in coverage. They've just been smart with how they built it. Man, Brad Holmes is just on a great job.
So it's funny, right because if you've ever been to Detroit, the one thing that you're gonna see really quickly when you land in the airport is Detroit versus everybody. I feel like I feel like that they took that and they ran with it. They have this knack of like, hey man, we don't care what you think about us.
We don't care how you think about us building our team.
We have a very specific criteria for who we're looking for to surround our team.
And you talked about it takes bullies to know bullies.
When you have Dan Campbell on top of it, like at the front of the room talking about how they gonna beat people up and bite kneecaps and all that, it's very clear in the parent who they have and having this conversation earlier today, and we're talking about like man Marvra Saint Brown is a dog, David Montgomery is a dog.
Penney Sewel is a dog.
To me, I'm like, yeah, you just don't jaff those guys by coincidence. It is something that they're specifically seeking out to have a team that has that many guys that have the alpha competitive, feisty personality that comes through in their play.
And you know, fan bases are so fickle, like you really need to be looking at teams that build it from the ground floor, and you should want your team to do that. Like the idea you're just gonna add Dame Lillard to the Bucks and everything's gonna be fine. I mean, it's not really how it works, you know. I Mean you can try. It sounds good in theory, but the but the Miami super team of Wade, Bosh and James that doesn't come around much. And you can try to just.
Add guys ad guys, ad guys through through free agency and through trades and stuff like that, but really growing your own is always the best approach and knowing you know and finding guys with great football character, great toughness.
Terry and Arnold fits right into what Dan I mean, I was. I was a no brainer. That's got Aaron Glenn and Dan Campbell written all over it, Terry and Arnold. And so they draft lions, and they know what lions look like, and you look at how they're built. That's that's the way and a shrewd quarterback move. You look at the state the cults are in right now versus the state the lions are in there. But by the grace of God, go I because you saw, you know, a golf was not golf was not a hot commodity
when he came over. He was not a hot commodity. He was a reclamation project. And they and they reclaimed him and Ben Jonson deserves a lot of credit. They put the pieces around him, and you know, he's coming off a really bad game, but it's the first really bad game we've seen in a long, long time for golf. Do you remember what your attitude was when Dan Campbell when you first heard that he was because he wasn't necessarily a hot name, but when he was first hired and his first initial press.
Conference, so the press conference was one thing right, it took a life of his own. The aggressiveness to whatever. He didn't really talk x's and o's. He talks about most mentality. But what drew me to Dan and why I was hopeful that this would workout as Dan Campbell that original staff is a bunch of former NFL players.
And what I always can appreciate is like when you keep it within the fraternity, because for so long you have NFL types kind of dismissed players and what players can do, because you know, the evaluators have seen the players and have always felt like players were coddled. I love the fact that Dan Campbell one took a non traditional path to be the head coach. Not a quarterback, not an offensive coordinator, but a leader of men. And that coin that phrases is overthrown out there.
I want a leader of men.
But like, really, he was not what some of us say is the right of passage to be a head coach. He was a position guy who became the leader of the team. He surrounded himself with guys that he wanted in the locker room. So now you have not only a bunch of former players, but you have a diverse staff that can share real life experiences with their players.
And so some of the edginess, that greediness, that toughness is because does the coaches have walked that path that they want you to walk, so you don't get the quote unquote fake tough guy spiel from the coaches. The other thing that I would say when Dan Campbell took over, I just love how he's always gone to bat.
For his quarterback.
No matter what people said about Jerry Goff, he has always had his back. And what I would say is, as someone who is always a huge Jery Goff supporter, I think that the Lions were able to dig beneath the surface and see that Jery Goff has the requisite toughness to be in that locker room.
We know different quarterbacks at different levels.
Some people couldn't handle being surrounded by alphas like the Lions have surrounded Jered Goff with. But obviously he got a little bite to him if he can get them to respond to his style and his leadership style and those things, and so toughness is a key part of every team being successful. But I think what Dan Campbell has done in terms of elevating the toughness of the team. Need more toughness from the team, and even demanding more
toughness from his QB one. To me, it's a blueprint that others should follow as they're trying to rebuild their squads.
I just looked at the staff. You're right. I mean Sean Dion Hamilton, De'shaye Townsend. You've got Mark Brunell. There's JT. Barrett, who was you know, obviously a great college.
By but JT played in JT played in the league, like he spent time with the New Orleans Saints. Like there are a bunch of guys, and they had even more because I want to say Kevin Sheppard maybe there, yeah, he is. He played like so they have a bunch of guys that remember when he first took over it was with Duce Staley, he had Anthony Lynn, he had He's always had a bunch of guys. Antoine Rendall l
is in the building. So they have former players. And so you want to see that because you're hoping, hey man, maybe this to bring more opportunities in the same thing that I've seen. You see it in ah Down with Demiko. Ryan's getting the opportunity. It's a head coach, not a quarterback linebacker, but another the NFL guy we're seeing other guys drop Mayo in New England an Tonio Pierce. So to me is as a former player, you just like seeing former players get opportunities.
People are talking about qualification in those.
Things, but I think in a league that is a player driven, I do think sometimes players should drive it as coaches as well.
Yeah, And you know, look, I've got a dad who was a coach his entire life, my entire life, and he played some college ball, had separated shoulders, got into just full time coaching, and so he didn't play at the you know, the highest level, but coached coach at a high level. Was a technical specialist on offensive line,
really respected the business. But you know, there is something to be said, and just my conversations with him over the years, and I think maybe even more now than it was before, there is something to be said with you know, it's the first thing you have to do on the pro level now is get guys to buy in, buy into you. And that's not just as a head coach. I mean that's is a receivers coach, an O line coach, a linebackers coach. They got to buy into you. And
you know, the buy in sometimes can be easier. It's an easier pathway potentially for a guy who's been through it and who knows who knows what the dynamics are inside of locker room, who knows what the dynamics are, you know, potentially with especially if they're younger coaches, which more and more getting younger in the thirties and early forties, it's maybe a little easier to uh, to assimilate into into your your team in a way that's easier to relate.
I say it with with Demiko Ryans, like Dimiko's very relatable with the players, it's there's they don't take plays off. With Demiko Ryans. They got a swarm mentality. That's what Demiko preaches. H you know, they got some holes over there that we can talk about right now. But I mean, you're on the pathway. It's a matter of tightening things up right now. But yeah, when you it's hard to get the right guy. I mean, we look at Chicago and do Chicago have the right guy? Do they have
the right guy at quarterback? It's those those answers you're not going to find them right now. But getting back to the Lions just for a second, they faced Jacksonville. I like them to, you know, to bounce back and have a better game, even though they beat the Texans, to have a better game. But at the top of the board, green base at Chicago. And let's talk about Chicago for a second, because the worst thing that happens to the Carolina Panthers is having CJ. Stroud become a
religion quarterback at number two. And here we are in twenty twenty four, and we got Caleb Williams struggling a little bit in the bear struggling. And here's I mean, Jadeen Daniels doesn't have a care in the world.
Boot boot boot touchdown, field goals, touchdowns.
They can't stop him. He's going down the field and getting points every damn time. He's running for yards, he's thrown for yards, he's getting wins. He's got a chance to win the division. Man, that pressure, that Sam Bouie pressure. When the number two guy, the Kevin Durant pressure, When the number two guy is better than Greg Odin, which is Caleb Williams right now, it's it makes it hard on an entire city, makes it hard on the staff.
So before we talk to sifically about Chicago, I want to talk about the players Kayleb Williams and Jayde Daniels. Going back looking at your reports, how close was that evaluation between the two?
How close were the grades between Calebs and Jayden?
And they had a six seven seven three, So I had him equal but on so in my heart though I had Daniels as the better player, but that's off of tape. I also have to take into account factor his size being a little slender. Okay, but some of my ears, like the Heights told me a little bit with Caleb.
Okay.
So so now now that we're having a conversation, because everyone is going to have revisionous history about this conversation, there was a lot of people, there was a lot of outside noise where it was you couldn't dispute that Caleb Wings was going to be number one overall because for a year and a half, two years, we had talked about how magical, how mystical he was as a quarterback. And there was conversation in Chicago when they got him like how are they ever going to slow down this
offense with him as the trigger man? And and what I think we're learning one when it comes to quarterback man reps and experience matter because as much as we can talk about Jaden Daniels, man look and see what bo Nicks is starting to do with Sean Payton. Both of those guys entered the league with significant experience as starters. People will put all of the failures for Kayler Williams on the coaching staff.
They didn't do this, They didn't do that. They should have. You know, they should run the ball more.
They should do that, But at some point early on your franchise, quarterback should flash and flash and pop.
In a major way.
Jayden Daniels isn't playing with a cast of all stars in Washington and the same play caller that we're now revering in Cliff Kingsbury. They ran out the building in Arizona. Colin Murray was upset with Cliff Kingsbury on the sideline, and we all saw that. Sometimes we have to make sure we plug our ears and we just use our eyes and we grade what we see on tape. If we graded what we saw on tape on the final year, Jade and Daniels out played Caleb Williams, wasn't.
It wasn't really, it wasn't close, It wasn't close.
Yeah, no, J James, that's not revision. It's either you and I have had this conversation before last draft. I said it on my notes that on tape Jayden Daniels is the best player in twenty twenty four. The hype of Kate, you know, it was weird. I got to these players and I'm like, Okay, I can't wait to see Caleb. This is going to be incredible. It's going
to be incredible. I'm hearing these generational Well. The first thing was I watched Drake May first, and I'm like, Drake May's the for sure number two, Like sure about this because I had already seen bo Nix and I'd seen Jayde and Daniels. I'm like, both of these guys are better than the Drake May. I mean on tape for sure. But you know, I get the traits and I respect all that stuff and his potential and ability. And then I get to Caleb, I'm like, wait a minute.
Caleb Williams was not very accurate on the move at all. He struggled, He struggled with certain pressure looks. He was not a guy who was consistently staying. He didn't work on schedule at all, and while you can see him flash with throws and things like that, you know, there was a lot of projection you had to do with k but you could see it on tape from Daniels.
But the difference with Daniels is, Okay, he's kind of a he's kind of a skinny guy, like, how's he gonna hold up because he's also a runner who, by the way, doesn't slide effectively at all. Took a lot of big shots, but he was really good on tape. Caleb, you just kind of had to trust that those here that the hero ball would go away and he'd stay on because when he's on schedule, he's a good quarterback.
But he's still going. He's still reverting right now his hero ball stuff, and it's hard to get rid of. I think it's a and I don't think there's a guarantee they get rid of it. I know Ben Roethlisberger, and my dad was there at Ben. It was tough at Pittsburgh because Ben, you know, on offensive line coaches and on offensive linemen, because you hold up, you hold up, you hold up, and if he's trying to make a play.
But you know, but that same issue that causes sacks will also cause him they hit a big play, and you know, I mean, I firmly believe my dad has a Super Bowl ring because Ben Roethlisberger makes plays. I mean, that's the way it is. But you got to take some But right now, Caleb Williams is not making enough place. So it's and he's a rookie and it's a problem. But at some point you gotta you know, what was his name, Todd oh the offense coordinator at Pittsburgh, Oh,
Todd Haley. Haley, Todd Haley. At some point Haley went in and butted heads with Ben and he got Ben to start getting rid of the ball. And it was and it was and I think it helped Ben and the Steelers enormously. And I think right now you're going to have to find a quarterback coach, an offensive coordinator or a head coach, one of those guys who Caleb can buy into and remake himself and understand he has to change his philosophy that I can take profits and
still be a great quarterback. Right now he's playing, he wants to be a great quarterback instead of just making good football players from snap to snap, because there is talent around him. Making no mistake, the offensive line has to get better, there's no question. But you're right, this can't all just be on play calling. Some of this is you got to maximize what's around you by just being efficient and being on time.
Yeah, no, I think that is. I think that is important.
I also think, like, without even talking about the field of play, so much of what we talk about when it comes to quarterback is does the quarterback give the team hope? And early in the process, early in the season this year, Lance, you would hear coming out of that commander's locker room.
You would hear words like special, he got it. He's the guy.
We have one like those things where they're talking about Jade and Daniels where the team you're talking about veteran players who've been around the block a few times in the league respecting him like that.
That's one thing.
It's another thing to have the reports and the rumors that I mean, like, let's just put it out there where they're saying that some of the players may have gone to Ebraflus and talked about sitting Caleb Williams down. If there's anything remotely close to that really coming out and here's what we also know working in the league, where there's smoke, there's fight, These rumors and innu windows
and things they just don't come out of nowhere. There's somewhere in the locker room a faction of folks that aren't all the way bought into the Caleb Williams experience. To me, that's more troubling than whatever it is that he's doing between the lines as a play.
It's troubling in two regards. Number One, it's troubling that Caleb may not right now have the emotion and this is just purely speculation. Maybe he doesn't have the emotional maturity to get the veterans to buy in. But the other just punny thing is that it's even coming out of the building, you would hope, and that's kind of how it is now. We don't really everything's not kept in abiliting anymore because players have their own podcasts that
they can't wait to put stuff out there. It's crazy, but you know, I think that's the other problem, Bucky, is that man, I would try to rally the troops and you know, and I wouldn't want that getting out there because I want him to remain as confident as possible, and so it's disappointing that he gets out of the
building is leaked. But you're right, Usually when that stuff comes out, it's because somebody wants it out, somebody's disappointed, somebody's upset, and there's a leak, and that's h and that's what is going on here. They they could use a win in the worst way against green Bay. Green Bay needs a win this week. I mean green Bay needs a win as well. But Chicago and Ryan Poles and Matt Eberflus and the whole city and Caleb Williams man that whole crew could use a win this week.
Yeah, I mean they have to get a win because the look, the hopes were high, the expectations were through the roof in terms of what the Bears were willing to do, and moving on from justin Bilds, there was a lot of you know, there's a lot of expectations that were placed on Kayler Williams and maybe unfairly that they expected him to be the savior. But yeah, it's situation critical is already critical in Chicago.
You have Matt Eberflus, who's coaching.
For should should it be critical already I mean, he's a fresh he's a rookie quarterback. Should we be taught?
I know it is.
It is because that's the way we make it. Now. Is it really critical, like shouldn't Well?
I think yeah.
I think the only reason it's critical is because, Okay, so normally what you like to do is you like to tie the quarterback and the head coach together. Like what you don't want to have is head coach coach four year fire him. Now the quarterback is on his second coach and coordinator entering his second season, Whereas if they were tied at the hip married, then they got to figure it out collectively how they move forward. So you don't know the finger pointing and the things that
are going on behind the scenes. I would just say this, it is rare that a midseason offensive coordinator change works out.
You normally get an emotional joke like a week and then it goes back to being what it is.
I'm curious to see what Thomas Brown does with this offense, if he can jump stut, if you can find a way to get Kayler Williams playing, Because I watched Kayer Williams in London when they knocked off the Jaguars, and what I saw was a player who was trending up in terms of being able to play on time. He selectively utilized his athleticism and improvisational playmaking skills to make plays, but he appeared to have a good grasp on it.
And I'll just say this week, this league is a week to week league, and it's amazing how quickly the wins will change, and.
Just kind of put things there. We'll be back right after this break.
Last thing, because we kind of jumped into this rookie quarterback conversation bow Knicks. Are you surprised as some of the success that bow Knicks has happened with Seam Paygne?
No, not really, but I also it is a weird thing. Like I wanted to give him two grades. I wanted to give him a sixty seven, which is really that's what I initially had him at and people were freaking out, But I thought, man, he looked really good on tape, like he had poise, he threw with accuracy, he threw with decent anticipation, like I liked him a lot on tape. Then I didn't like him as much as the Senior
Bowl and one as good at the Senior Bowl. Then I didn't really feel him at the Senior at the Combine, and so I'm like, man, maybe I'm just getting too hyped on him. But the reality was I loved him in Denver with Peyton. I thought Sean Payton was a very specific coach he could go to and play his
best football. And like, my grade would have been higher for Sean Payton, but they didn't have a you may remember, like what they didn't have a They had a first round pick, but they didn't have a second round pick. And I just thought, well, he's not going to draft bow Knicks this high. So I don't see how Sean Payton's going to be able to get his hands on bon Nicks, Like he's not going to draft him in sigh. And then when he did, I thought, Okay, bow Knicks, I think could fail with a lot of with a
lot of a lot of different teams. He might have failed, but I thought Sean Payton is the perfect guy to bring him along in a quick hit offense, take advantage of his accuracy, like that was the perfect offense for him. So I'm not super surprised honestly about how he's playing. That's not really surprising me. And I think one of the reasons because what you brought up earlier, Bucky five years as a starter, and he's gone through tremendous adversity.
His time at Auburn was bad, Like the Auburn fans were all over him. He didn't play great football. There was a lot of adversity he had to overcome. He had a year at a year at Oregon where he was better, and then a really good final year. The trajectories of him and Jayden Daniels are very similar in a lot of different ways. And so getting through adversity and then having all those snaps under his belt and then finding the perfect you know, I think offense and
head coach. I think that was like all of that comes together to put bo Nicks in a position where he can be successful right now.
Yeah, I think one of the lessons that will learn one looking at quarterbacks. I want to see quarterbacks that have gone through some stuff and come out on the other side. I think it's really important instead of beating them up for their early career struggles, Let's see how they were able to navigate through those struggles and come out on the other side and perform better because it appears that those guys who go through it early are better prepared to play in the pros when they get to it.
Secondly, experienced matters.
We talk about fifty starts, going back to Bark Purty with forty nine stars, and now you have Bo Necks and jayde Daniels. There appears to be a direct correlation between the amount of starts that you have as a collegiate and the success that you can have early in your career as a quarterback. The final thing is the environment is everything. When we talk about rookie quarterbacks. It's really important because we do this on path to the draft.
We talk about operating instructions like hey, take this player, but if you take this player, you have to do X, Y and Z.
Now more than ever, where the player.
Lands, who's coaching him, who's calling the plays, and who's building the team around him. That might matter more than the talent that he walks into the door with.
Yeah, dead on, I agree with all that.
Okay, so now we're talking about quarterbacks and guys that have moved on. You remember way back when we had to evaluate Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen and how crazy it was for some of us to view them at the top of the charts based on how they played at collegiance. Well, guess what, Lance, It's time for Game of the Week presented by Draft Kings Sportsbook. This week it's the kN City Chiefs and the Buffalo Bills. To spread his minus two favorite the Bills.
The over under is.
Forty six, and those two quarterbacks, those two guys that were outliers in their respective quarterback classes are now squaring off. Let's preview this game, but let's talk about the game through the lens of those two quarterbacks and how they've developed in the league to become two of the best players that we've seen at the position.
Yeah, I love it. Let's start right now, right off the bat with you know, there's a similarity between the two because there were both gunslingers in college. Both of them had to carry the team on their backs, the offense on their backs. It led to some tape where they would take chances, Bucky and they would do some things that you know, if it viewed through the lens in a vacuum of a one decision, you say, that's a bad decision by Josh Allen. That's a bad decision
by Pat Mahomes. But then when you get outside of that and you say, what if Pat Mahomes doesn't have to carry the load the whole time? What if he didn't feel that pressure. What if Josh Allen has better wide receivers that can actually create some separation for him? Is it is his inaccuracy? Is Is it as big a problem as it is? You know, historically the data
would show you it is. At the end of the day, they were both great learning exercises for me because I put too much on Pat Pat being a you know who. He was a Texas tack. It wasn't a projection. I'm like, he's Jay Cutler.
And at the time I.
Didn't have a problem with it because arm talent, gunsling mentality. It wasn't about Jay's attitude.
I mean I wrote that it really was, you know, he was kind of the best that ever was because he hadn't really won significantly at Texas Tech, much like Jay Cutler had won a lot at Vanderbilt, And so you were pulled into the potential talent, the potential some of the production, but you hadn't seen the wins come with it. And so that's why that evaluation tricky and I still have my notes on my phone from a few NFL scouts.
We've never seen this work at the NFL level.
He's talented, he's a sandlot player, and we've never seen sandlot ball work in the NFL.
So it's a credit to him Pat Mahomes for being able to, I.
Would say, find the boundaries within his game to allow him to be successful. And it's also a credit to Andy Reid for taking on someone who was a bit of a projection but finding a way to maximize his talent while allowing him to still be himself as a gun sleeper.
But Jordan got his Pippin too, or or Isaiah got is Joe Dumars or you know whatever combination Klay Thompson and Steph Curry, Because because Travis Kelcey's ability to think and improvise along you got one of the greatest improvisional you know, impro improvising quarterbacks. Improvisational, there's the word improvisational quarterbacks of all time. And you happen to have a
tight end who thinks just like him. I mean, if you've ever watched anything where they've talked about it, they literally will just travels will just break off a route and run whatever. He don't carry just I'll just run whatever, and Trav and uh and the quarterback will just kind of read it with me. And that's why they're so hard to guard. Why the question was always asked, why can they not stop Travis kelce because Travis Kelcey the routs he's running don't show up on tape like he's
just doing stuff. He's just doing stuff. And his quarterbacks with that, I.
Never thought about that part when we talk about sandlot, Yeah, his best wide receiver is a sandlot specialist. And now you have two freelance players who somehow have mental teleoparthy to know what each is doing, and none of us on the other side.
Can figure out what they're going to do because they don't even know when they break the heart r ye. It's fantastic. But on the other side, the Buffalo Bills.
The Buffalo Bills have kind of done the Pat Mahomes thing, where before they surrounded Josh Allen with a premier wide receiver in Stefan Diggs, they had a number two receiver in Gabe Davis. They removed both of those pieces, and somehow the Buffalo Bills are better. Yes, they make a trade for Marik Cooper, but he hasn't made a significant impact.
They have, I would say, benefited from addition by subtraction because they're getting a better version of Josh Allen in an offense that's more balanced and I would say more of a committee or collective than what it used to be when it was a hierarchy and you knew who's one, who's three, etc.
It's been incredible to watch because I thought losing Digs would hurt, but the reality is the Digs loss meant more time for not just Sames Cook, but also Ray Davis, who's been a fantastic rookie edition. They're in a third or fourth round whatever it was. Running back out of Kentucky. James Cook has been awesome and now I you know, you get the sense that the interception numbers being so far down for Josh Allen is really impressive. He's not
throwing stuff. You know, he and Lamar Jackson guys who make mistakes in the red zone, they're not making mistakes in the red zone this year. It's a different it's a different league. It's a different game to both of them. I think Josh is unencumbered by feeling like he has to get the ball to digs. I think having a running game has helped them the same way it helped
Jared Goff, the same way it's helping Justin Herbert. You can run the ball, you take a little bit more off the quarterback shoulders and you get more you know, you get more efficient output. And that's what's happening with the Buffalo Bills. And you know, Khalil Shakir, look at how Brandon Bean's done a great job too. Khalil Shakir is just a guy who just get the ball in
his hands and good things happen. They've been able to find quality play out of both tight ends, where Dawson and Dalton Kincaid have both done a nice job of catching passes here and there. I think Josh has learned how to spread the ball around because when you're a guy who only I saw this with Deshaun Watson in Houston, when you had d hop when you only go to one guy Matthew Stafford with Megatron, when they going to one guy all the time, you're not really developing as
a quarterback. You're you're developing. I would even say Tom Brady with uh, you know, with Rob Gronkowski to an extent when he didn't have Gronk. Remember how Tom Brady's production was way down, Like this great Tom Brady, he wasn't the same guy without his blanket, his safety blanket. So sometimes when you take a safety blanket away, it forces quarterbacks to be more open minded about where they want to go with the ball. And so a play call that normally they know where they're going to go,
They're going to their guy. Now they're forced to like, well, let's just see how it develops. Let's see. And I think they learned the offense better that way, because it seems like it with Josh Allen.
Yeah, the same thing to happen with Pat Mahomes.
You removed Tyreek Hell, he becomes a he went two titles and becomes even better as they're on the verge of a potential three peed. With Josh Allen, you remove Stephan Diggs, who is his trusted confident in terms of in those big moments, the ball was going to Stephan Diggs. Now he is forced to utilize the entire look, the entire group. He's also forced to exhaust every option of the play, which is something that he wasn't doing before.
To me, this game comes down to defense. And when you think about the two defenses, the Buffalo Bills are a blue collar, workman like defense, not a lot of star power. But man, collectively, they're kind of like Voltront Like you put them all together. They kind of go in the offense brin and do their thing. On the other end, they can't see the Chiefs just find ways to win because defensively, Chris Jones is a monster. He
brings some people with him. Try McDuffie can get it done, lockdown on the outside.
Just a really good group. What do you think when you see these two defenses take the field?
Man?
I mean, if you want to find a defense, you want to find an MVP for Kansas City. People say Mahomes might be Steve Spagnuloh, he's doing an unbelievable job. SPACs has been great. But I have a feeling that, you know those Buffalo games, they like to run him at twelve Eastern. I mean what one Eastern, twelve Central, and ten Pacific. Well, they're going to have an extra three hours and twenty five minutes to get liquored up. So I think it's I think Bill's mafia is going
to be out of control. Like I like Buffalo here, I think I think what you're going to see is kind of unfinished business. For It's Pat Mahomes always just is a is a stick in the side of the Buffalo Bills. And I think this is that unfinished business that I saw it in college this week, Ole miss and Lane Kiffin taking out taking out Kirby Smart and Georgia that unfinished business. They could never get over the hump, and they got over the hump in college football last week.
I think Buffalo gets over the hump here as a two point favorite against the Chiefs, and I like the Bills here. And one of the reasons I like him is because I think that James Cook can also keep an eye on this. Both running backs, Cooking Davis be
factors out of the backfield. So even if they tighten up the run game the Kansas City Chiefs defensively, I think the fact that your running backs can get out and match up on linebackers or something you're gonna have to take a look at in this game from a schematic standpoint.
Now, I'm gonna go the other way because I think the Cancaity Chiefs have mastered the art of winning. I'm gonna take them, even though the Bills are favorite. I'm looking for the Cancity Chiefs to not only defend their crown, but send a little message you're gonna have to deal with us in the postseason. Download the Draftking Sportsbook app now use code MTS. New customers can bet just five bucks to get two hundred dollars in bonus bets only on DraftKings Sportsbook with code MTS.
The crown is yours.
Now, if we finished the game of a week, let's take a break and we'd be right back to wrap up the show. All right, Lance, So we're we're nearing the fourth quarter of the pod. Give me something that you've brought on, something that we should talk about before we close this out.
I think I think the I think the growth of I think we have two very different quarterbacks that in different directions with Baltimore and Pittsburgh. You have Lamar Jackson who continues to build. He had that one MVP year. Then it was kind of dol Drums didn't throw as well, was always hurt, couldn't finish the seasons. They came back with a strong year and this is his best year by far, Invall. I think he and Mounkin have been incredible together. I think Lamar is getting better as a quarterback.
But for everything Lamar is doing, how about the fact that we give a little shout out and a little credit to Mike Tomlin, Mike t and Russell Wilson. It was not a popular move when they went away from from Justin Fields, but up to this point they continue to win. With Russell Wilson, the offense has actually gotten better. The old wiley veterans has done what he needs to
do and is keeping things on the track. And h and Mike Tomlin, who everyone wants to find a reason to chase Mike off, like just because they're tired of him being there for so long. Mike T's got that Sea seem in a great space right now. And if they beat the Ravens ming up this weekend at home with Russell Wilson, you know, going through kind of a
redemption tour. I think that'd be an incredible story because the story is Lamar Jackson and the Ravens, but the reality is Mike Tomlin and Russell Wilson, who've been around a long time. They've seen a lot of wins and it's and it's a team that Lamar sometimes he struggles against the the the Steelers. So I think, I think watching Russell Wilson, can he beat the most dynamic quarterback in Pro football right now? That's that's a good storyline to watch.
That is a great storyline to watch.
And you know, it's funny because everyone was so down on the Pittsburgh Stals when they made the quarterback moves, not only for Russell but for justin fields.
They're like, if you have two quarterbacks, you don't have one.
But the Pittsburgh Steelers up here to have flipped that narrative and said, no, no, no, we can win with either guy. But Russell Wilson gives us what we need to particilarly be a super Bowl contender in this game. Russell Wilson's experience and the fact, let's be honest, Baltimore
Ravens defense is not being great. So when you think about running the football and being able to throw the ball down the field to those big bodies on the outside, George Pickens, Mike Williams, that could be a big factor in this There's just something about the Pittsburgh Steelers being the Baltimore Ravens and Lamar Jackson's boogeyman. I'm going to take the Steelers in this one. I think they found a way to get it done.
I like it too, and I think we'll see if we see bombs Away Russ again. You remember it, and in Seattle he was bombs away. He was great throwing the deep ball. This would be the game to do that. Like you said, they're not great in a secondary and if you you may need some explosive plays to beat the Ravens offense. So I think keeping eye on the on the deep ball game early on in that one to see if the Pittsburgh Steelers can take advantage of it.
How about are you excited about? It's an interesting game. The Atlanta Falcons at Denver. You got bow Nicks. We talked about a little bit more. But Kirk Kirk cole bangs Kirk Cousins. I love Kirk talking about going into trap and taking over the trap. Like damn, Atlanta's got him it. Kirks for the streets. Now Kirk Cousins is the streets have got Kirt. Yeah, and now he's he's talking about going into Denver's trap and taking over Denver's tracks.
Yeah, yeah, we'll see you're having.
You gotta be careful Lanta down because he's dealing with a really good defense advantaced Joseph is going to bliss him at every turn. And the thing about the Atlanta Falcons offensively love the weapons on the outside, but they're not necessarily a speed merchant group, you know what I'm saying. So they have big bodies in those things. So when think about the pressure that they can dial up, who
is going to win? Can Moody win consistently? To give them the big play element, because the only way you discourage people from blisten you gotta punish them with big plays.
And do they have the speed on the perimeter to punish them.
Look, Bjon Robinson can ciderably hurt them as a runner, but that's going to have to be a factored when you deal with it. And then let's be honest when it comes to the Atlanta Falcons. The Atlanta Falcons don't have a pass rush. So if Sean Paygne is able to run the football and set Boat Nicks up for play action, he's going to have time to push the ball down the field, maybe you can find Court and
maybe find some of their other emerging young players. To me, this is a game where the Atlanta Factors have to get this one. They gave one away last week. They gotta come back strong into this. How they played this week will let us know if this team is legit or if they're frauds. I'm gonnaet I'm gonna take the Falcons in this. Are the Chargers legit? And I asked this for this reason. They're six and three.
Their wins come against the Titans, the Browns, the Saints, the Broncos. That's a good team. The Panthers and the Raiders. Their losses, Steelers, Chiefs, and Cardinals all at their top of the top of their divisions. Are the Chargers for real? Will the Cincinnati Bengals expose them?
No, they won't expose them.
I'm all in on the Chargers kool aid Jim Harbart being able to make it happen when it comes to the toughness to physicality, even though they don't have stars. I can't believe what he's getting out of Quinn Johnson, like I can't believe that he is looking like a significant playmaker. The fact that they have him and Lab McConkie speaks volumes about how they run the football and how good the quarterback is. It's gonna be interesting. The Bengals are solid, but they just don't have enough. Like
defense isn't playing well enough. Offensively, it's a one man show with Joe Burrow Jamar Chase. I just think collectively, the Chargers and their culture and their toughness overwhelmed the Bengals.
Yeah, and the other thing is, you know, can the Bengals handle a street fight like? They've never been a team that just beats you up with their physicality. It's always been a little bit too finesse for me. And I think that one thing that Jim Harball is all about physicality. He was at Michigan. He basically came in and told you he was drafting offensive line. He basically told us who he was picking. It was just a matter of figuring out who the offensive lineman was, and
it was what you see is what you get. Like, we're gonna run the ball. We're gonna run the ball, We're gonna get good up front, We're gonna be physical. This is how we're gonna play. And so I think it's a great chance for Joe Burrow and that offense to make a statement. But I think first and foremost they have to be ready to strap it on and and win in the trenches because hardball, and you know, I know their strength coach Ben Herbert, who is just phenomenal,
but he's a typical strength coach. He's got that strength coach energy, which you know exactly what I'm talking about, Like they are. Both of those guys are perfect for what the Rams want to do, I mean the Chargers want to do. So I think that this this battle of the Chargers I guess desire to impose their will versus Joe Sisty and the and the white outs that
he's got over there. It's gonna be a it's gonna be a fun matchup to see if we're flying around, if we're if we're the ball's free flowing through the air and big plays are being made, or if it's the the ground and pound of the of the Chargers.
Yeah, no, it'd be interesting.
Any other games on this slate that you're bringing on, give me one more game that's bruing on before we close the pied out.
Well, so this is a this is not a sexy game, but I'm gonna say it anyway, because it's the money night game the Texans and the Cowboys. Usually that makes Usually that makes all the difference in the world in Houston when we're playing the Cowboys, Man, we want to beat the Cowboys. I just feel sad for the Cowboys right now, Like I'm kind of like, man, don't beat them too bad, but because I feel bad for what's going on in Dallas. But no, on a serious note,
Houston right now is they're a little disheveled. They're just coming off of an embarrassing loss to the Lions.
C J.
Stroud is not playing as well as he had in the past. The protection has been up and down. Now Michael Parsons is back for Dallas. But at the same time, I don't know I've seen a more dysfunctional team. I mean, I was thinking about that All Star team that Philadelphia tried to put together with Vic and Vince Young and Nam DIASI won. They thought it was a super team and it ended up being a super disappointment that year.
But the are worse because now you've got podcast guys, you got Jerry all the time on radio or whatever, saying everything he's going to say, like, I don't know the last time I've seen a team look this dysfunctional and Dallas is a seven point underdog at home. They don't know who their quarterback is going to be, or they do, but it doesn't matter. It could be Trey Lancer or Cooper Rush both playing in this game. The
Texans got to get back on the right track. And if they lose to the Cowboys, what does that say about the Texans? For the Dallas Cowboys, I mean, are they at any point going to actually step up and show, you know, show the I guess the I don't know, the ego to turn it around, the pride to turn it around. Because this is so bad watching him on a weekly basis.
Yeah, it is so bad watching him.
And you know it's a team that overchieved last year when they won twelve games. Mike McCarthy is catching the heat, but this team is poorly constructed. They have one wide receiver, CD Lamb. They don't have a marquee running back. The offensive line is young, talented but young. Defensively, Michael Parsons is everything, but what he is is volatile when it comes to his leadership. Style or how many guys want to follow behind him and they're not getting what they
need from the front to protect the back end. And I love Trayvon Diggs. He's a turnover machine when it comes to taking the ball away. But the team is flawed, you know what I'm saying. Like for the star that's on the helmet, how many real stars do they have when it comes to what they're putting on the field. It's a team that we love to talk about, but look, man, the hype doesn't match.
What the team really is. And so on Monday night we're gonna talk about it.
But man, I expect h Town to put it down when it comes to the Cowboys, and it's always personal when these two teams square off. So look, man, I gotta thank my man Lance for coming in joined the podcast, having great discussions.
I always appreciate you and Lance, we got to bring you back.
Yeah, looking forward to it. Let's get it going, man, it's time. It's November to my time. I got pro, I got college, I got Draft, And before you know it, you're gonna have to jump off the You're gonna have to jump off the pro side and jump into the into the grind, Bucky into the grind, the grime, grimey grinding draft time.
Yeah, no, I should be funny.
H By the way, have you gone over? Have you gone over to England or or twice Germany?
Or you have? I went to London back to back and let me tell you the International Pathway program that're buzzing on it. We'll see if somebody, if there's some guys that draw some interest. But yeah, I've already gone over.
Yeah, I'm interested. I want to go over and check out, check out that experience because it's I know, the pathway. I think it's gonna get bigger and bigger internationally every single year. I think it's gonna happen really quickly too. Yeah.
So all right, man, Lance, we appreciate it. Thank you guys for listening. That was mood to sticks. We'll talk to me next time
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