Sean Payton retires; 49ers & Rams meet again in NFC Championship

of the New Orleans Saints. We are bridging that gap between the games and the news in this episode here, and to do it well, you welcome our pal Jim Trotter back here with us. Always gracious with his time and we appreciate it. Jim. Good to have you. Man. Let's start here with Sean Payton. Not necessarily surprising, but I feel like there's still a shock value considering what Sean Payton has meant to New Orleans. Does that make sense?

That's loutely you know. I said that earlier today on NFL Now that, um, while we can be shocked by the timing of it and the suddenness of it, I wasn't really surprised. I mean, I think for me personally, in terms of my relationship with Sean and whatnot. Assessed to change in him after the year he sat out serving that suspension, and when he came back, Um, he was much more accessible, much more personable, much more transparent, if you will, and I dare to use the word reflective. Um.

Prior to that, Sean could be difficult at times, you know. Um, he came from the parcels school, the media war, sort of the enemy. We've got a lot of regrets, you know. I mentioned one of them. I wish I wish I've done I would have done a better job early on in my career with the media and and uh, and I hopefully I corrected that. And he would only let you get so close or go so far. But after you return, and particularly in the last few years, I just since, in my discuss this with him and whatnot,

a different person. And look, as we get older, we all grow, and we all develop, and we all mature in our own ways. And and I even heard Sean mentioned it in his press conference today about his relationship with the media. I do appreciate your jobs, and I recognize, especially in the last two years, how difficult those have been.

You know, people don't understand when all of a sudden, you practice inside, and with the COVID restrictions, the relationships that many of you have with our players, with our it's hard to do those jobs um effectively as you might like. I mean, when's the last time you've been able to go into a locker room after a game?

And we we kind of missed that, really, I do, honestly, and going into the presser after a game and looking at a laptop, um and so I appreciate every one of you and how he felt that over the last few years or whatever, that he had grown and had changed and had become more accessible and personal and those sorts of things so um so that that's why I wasn't necessarily surprised by this, that you could tell there were things that were more important to him, if you will,

then just football, or there were other things that he was thinking about besides just football. I think that's that's a great point. I'll just tell you a quick story just to kind of double down on what you're talking about in his relationship with the media evolving. I covered Sean and the Saints in two thousand and eight for

about for that season. This was before They're super right before their Super Bowl season, and things weren't great, Like you know, they had had some real success early on and then had kind of had some middling years there there are seven and nine were missing the playoffs, and there are things, you know, the offense wasn't working like

it like it used to. And I remember sitting there, this is my second job in television, and I had asked him, Sean, would you would you ever consider have you ever thought of, maybe, you know, letting someone else handle the play calling duties on offense? And if I could, I could not properly describe the look that he gave me with his one word answer, which was no and moved on. But I'm telling you what the best part about that whole thing is that everyone else, you know,

went on asking their questions after that. And while they're asking their questions, I keep catching glances from him, like looking back, like who is this jerk who just showed up and is asking is? And then but but you know the funny part about is, you know our relationship evolved. You know it's something more positive afterwards, and you know,

like I think he's done a great job. Like my dad worked for the Saints for thirty two years, and all my friends are lifelong diehard Saints fans and couldn't be more grateful for the contributions that he's made, you know, to that organization into the city really um in the last fifteen years. So I think that's a great that's

a great point. But no, truthfully right, And part of what I'm writing here is I wonder how long it's going to take the Saints to build a statue of him, because yeah, for me, Um, Sean in essence helps say football in New Orleans because people forget there was a lot of discussion about moving that franchise out of New Orleans after Yeah, Antonio, Yeah, and and to Commissioner Tally boost um credit at that time, he would not allow it.

But the fact that Sean, the first time head coach, comes in, takes over a team that in the previous thirteen years had appeared in the playoff once, had one, had only two winning seasons, and that first year take it to a NFC Championship game. And so you have a city that's sort of rebuilding itself, and he's doing it with a quarterback who has a reconstructed shoulder, and you start putting it all together and you create this

incredible success. It's easy to say you're most proud of a super Bowl team, but I'm most proud of the culture in in the um the winning seasons. You know, I never want to be a prisoner to hyperbole, but I don't know that there will ever be another coach who has that sort of unique relationship with a city, considering everything that was going on at that time, for him to do what he did and to reestablish that bond and give hope to that city at a time,

you know, really a dark period, it's unique and especial. Jim. That game, the Falcons game in the Superdome on Monday night, that I mean, that still comes up in casual conversation amongst New Orleanans and against amongst my friends when we're talking.

I mean like people will look back on that game. Um, I mean with with such admiration and jubil achian it would be hard to find, be hard pressed to find another regular season game that meant as much to a single franchise as that one did to the New Orleans And Sean Peyton was a huge part of that, because if they hadn't won the two games prior, both on the road and then come if they were owing to coming in to the Super and probably has still been a big deal, but the fact that they were too

and oh came in and were playing of Falcons and beat their mortal rival time in prime time time with just Steve Gleason punt. I mean, that's it was, I do just talking about it, um, and and the Saints have Sean Payton to thank for that, and and that and the whole really the whole organization would showed a lot of trust in him, you know, to hire a first time head coach for that kind of responsibility, and it felt like he really then turned that trust around

and placed it in Drew Brees. You know when there was when there are a lot of questions there, Well, it's like he said today. You know, at that moment, they were not winning any jump balls. You know, when it came to when it came to players, they had to take a chance on Drew because there really wasn't anything else. I'll never get Sean told me we did this. Um, I think it was a couple of years ago. We were doing this thing as as we headed to the Super Bowl about what if what if this had happened?

And then what what would have happened? And one of them was what if Drew Brees had never signed with the Saints, and how it would have impacted and he had gone to the Dolphins, and how it would have affected Saban and that franchise in the Saints. I'll never forget, Sean told me. He goes. We literally had Josh McCown

a plane ticket to come to New Orleans. We were about to sign Josh, and when Drew said he would come, we had to tell I can't remember if he said Josh was actually on a connection or he was just getting on the plane. It was one of the two. Josh was either making a connection or he was about to get on the plane to tell him, don't bother because Drew, yes, sorry, it was gonna be Josh McCown if it were not Drew Brees. And then ironically, Josh's brother Luke ends up being a backup to Drew Brees

for a number of years. Anyone's strange, small world, you know down there, certainly in New Orleans and in the NFL in general. What's next for Sean Payton? He said, don't use the term retirement. It's gonna step away sounds like he's not gonna do much of anything this year, at least in the coaching world. And he definitely didn't shy away from the idea of TV jym No and he and he definitely didn't slam the door on returning the coaching after two So here here's what I believe

not and I don't have any inside information. I have not talked to Sean since his press conference. I'm hoping too soon, but my guess is that he will take this year do something that he enjoys, and I think it will have something to do with the media. I'd like to try TV, and I've had some opportunities. I talked to Drew a little bit about it last night. I don't uh, I don't know that part of it that well, but that would be something that would interest me.

And so I think the hardest part is sitting in your chair saying, wait a minute, you haven't talked with the network yet. You haven't talked with like not a word. Um. So hopefully that opportunity comes and they are paying so well or these former coaches to step into the media now that if he finds that his quality of life is enjoyable without the coaching and the compensation is equally enjoyable, and I could see him staying out do you make

anything of the Cowboys connection? Still, I don't think you ever rule it out. I still have a vision for for doing things in football, and and I'll be honest with you, that might be coaching again at some point. I don't think it's this year. I think maybe in the future. But that's not where my heart is right now. Because look, one thing, one thing I know about Jerry Jones, and and this has told to me firsthand by him. So it's why I never discount anything. I remember once

asking Jerry. We were sitting in his office at at the Star in Frisco, and he was talking about his desire for another Super Bowl, and he said to me, if you were to tell me, if the football gods were to tell me that, if I were to sign over this facility and a T and T stadium to them,

I might just have those papers drawn up. And so that says to me that if we get to and the Cowboys haven't won that Super Bowl, aren't in a position to make it, and they have another year like they had this year where they flame out in the postseason, It would not shock me to see Jerry say, Sean, whatever, Yeah, what what number do I have to put on this check to get you to come back? Here's the plank check, you fill it out. Yeah. And so that's why I

don't think you ever rule out. You never say never. But I wouldn't be shocked if that happened. And what if you could continue playing the what if game? What if the past interference call had been had been and what if the flag had been thrown and the Saints ended up in the Super Bowl and not the Rams against the New England Patriots, And what if they had won a second you would we still be talking about

a Sean Payton stepping away at this point. Well, it turned out the Rams that he did acknowledge that he thought about walking away Withdrew. Yeah, he acknowledged that today, that that that the thought crossed his mind. But it was one of those things where he wasn't certain that that he was committed to that he was challenging for everyone. But man, I felt like it was time. I felt like it was time. You know, I kind of knew maybe heading into training camp this might but you know,

you know, you don't share that with anyone. You think, well, let's see how the season goes, and we're working hard, and and I felt the time was right for me. I felt the time was right. And it's something that I've been thinking about, you know. You know sometimes you have those thoughts across your mind and you're like, Okay, is this just my most is playing with me right now? Or is this something I really want to do? And

so he wasn't certain. So he came back for this year, and he said he never told anyone about it, because you don't ever want to create that that sense of doubting anyone. You have to be all in to make that run. But he said, as this season went on and some of the things that they went through, it's just his gut told him that it was time. And so it was interesting that in essence, he listened to his gut rather than his head, you know, before the

season in making this decision. Right now, it's a it's a great point. And I mean they've been at the center of some of the biggest playoff heartbreaks in recent memory, with the two losses to the Vikings, the Rams whole situation there in the championship game, and speaking of the Rams, they are back in the NFC Championship Game, getting set to take on the San Francisco forty Niners, a matchup that has not treated them well. How will this matchup

be any difference? That's next year? An NFL inside report back are an unfil inside reports are Jim Trotter is once again our guest and now with us to chat NFC Championship Game. This is a matchup that we have seen before between these two teams back in nineteen eighty nine beat the Rams thirty two three and went on to win Super Bowl twenty four. They're only previous playoff meeting, but now they get it again and Jim, I I just want to start with kind of the the big

picture here, um with these two franchises. First, let's start with the Rams, who have made you know, we talk about them all the time, making me all in moves. I mean, like they keep finding more chips to push to the middle when we think that they've gone all in before, but now it is they are truly all in and it feels like they're really get starting to

get the payoff. Like the River Cards are starting to turn in their favor here with the way that Matthew Stafford has turned it on in the postseason and Von Miller turning it on in the postseason. Back to pass, bready oft play action, hit, sacked, bumber, the ball recovered by the Rams at the yard line. Von Miller with the strip sack and the recovery the veterans. The future Hall of Famer makes a huge play here for the Rams early on the fourth. Do you feel like the

philosophy is paying off? I do at this point, but I will say this to you. They cannot have picked the worst opponent. Yeah, well to bike ending in their way and it was all in their control and week A team Stafford back the throw to, launched his seat down the right side for back up, and it's picked off. It's picked off by said Francisco. Have a forty diners are going to the postseason. There's some sort of weird um.

It's you could call it car mind the fact they had a chance to end their season and didn't and now they have to come back and face them again, or it's just look, I'm a northern California native and and our esteem producer Thomas Warren, we know how he feels about Southern California. Teams. He and I had our conversations about the Jas Dodgers. So for me as as as as a guy who grew up with Rams forty Niner matchups, I'm eating this up. I'm loving um, and

it would it would nothing. I shouldn't say nothing, but it would give me great pleasure as as going back to my childhood days. If the forty Niners were to knock the Rams off and keep them out of the super Bowl, and the rest of them will give me grief for that, but I'd rather be transparent with it than than not UM. But no, this is to me, this is fascinating. The fact that the forty Niners have won the last six meetings, four of those have been

decided by one possession games. The fact that the forty Niners, after George kill makes those comments about being physical and body bags. I'll just give you guys this because it was fun. Apparently I used a body bag quote that you know they used in their locker room this entire week, and I was saying it was for both sides of

the ball. You know, whoever it is Rams or Niners, someone's leaving in a body bag and we go down seventeen zero and I had five guys chirping me in the air that you guys are putting you on a body back kill. And I was like a lot of time up on that clock, boys, and uh, hopefully I can see them again, because that was a fun body back game to go down in the home of the Rams and turn around and win that game, and ot um.

You just have to wonder does that place doubt in the minds of the Rams when things get sticky or is it just sort of and I know this sounds crazy to say there could be added motivation in an NFC championship game or does that sort of does that sort of cure them, harden them for what's to come? I don't know. And that what makes it so fascinating to me, because these two teams know each other, these

two coaches know each other. Um, and the fact that whatever, for whatever reason, Kyle Shanahan has had Sean mcveig plast six games. Look, we had we had last week. We had Joe Berry, the defensive coordinator of the Packers, talking about playing the forty and Kyle Shanahan, We'll remember he was the linebackers coach for the Rams. Correct or X number of years before, and he was even bringing up the fact there that we didn't have much success against them when I was in l A and now enemy.

So I don't know how this is gonna play alred. I just know it's gonna be fascinating. So I to me, like it feels it feels like this strange poetic justice, and like it this great opportunity for l A. Yeah, they screwed it up all year long and in Week eighteen against the forty Niners and for the last three years.

But what better opportunity to slay the dragon, better opportunity to exercise the demon that has been the forty Niners then in the NFC Championship game again in your home stadium, um, when while we do expect plenty of forty Niners fans to be there, uh, but I just I feel like that's really interesting and the fact that the forty Niners are here, man, I mean, and I was I was the first one to not necessarily criticize the drafting of Trey Lance, but the drafting of a player who we

didn't anticipate to be a huge part of the offensive plan when you felt like a team that could win right now, and they are, and they're here and they're doing it, you know, whether it's in spite of or because of um. But Jimmy Garoppolo has has gone through this whole season. I'll be a couple of games that

he's missed due to injury. With his replacements standing on the sidelines, jim and well hasn't put up prolific passing numbers that still helped guide this team to the NFC Championship Game again and could be the only quarterback for the forty Niners since Montana to win two of them. Well, remember this too, We talked about the Rams having a chance to end the Niner season in Week eight. Team go back to earlier in the year when the Forts

were three and five and they were teetering. They had lost what five of six, and they were teetering, and then they go hand the Rams their worst loss of the year, and this will feel good for the fort and the Rams will go back to the drawing board. Two tough losses as they head into there By, and the Niners a satisfying victory, they'll head to Jacksonville. So that was another opportunity for the Rams to basically, if you will, that one prematurely in the forty season, because

do they come back from three and six? Probably not so. Um to your point, the thing about Jimmy. One reason I believe that Jimmy is still functioning the way that he is is the way that Kyle Shanahan has handled this. You know, we got to cant Or going into camp and he said, head, look, Jimmy's our guy. Now we're going to work both of them. And if somehow this kid turns out that he is so far ahead of where we think he is, we do what we have

to do. But Jimmy is our guy. And everybody kept saying, no, this is just the forty Niners trying to drive up trade babe for Jimmy and this one and the other. And so I think that one and I'm not saying that I know Jimmy's mind, But if I were a player and I had a coach who in that situation said to me, look, we do have your replacement here, but that's down the road. You take this and you run with it, and you do what you can with it this year. Go make yourself a bunch of money.

If it's not here, someplace else, whatever it is. And I think that. I believe that to support the Kyle showed for Jimmy in those moments, even during some of those struggles when they were three and five, has kind of hardened Jimmy to say, you know what, all that other bs out there exactly, I'm just going to play. And so when when people say, wells are winning because Kyle was taking the ball out of Jimmy's hands, Jimmy's like, I don't care. We did that in twenty nineteen and

we always wanted to hang Super Bowl. He threw twenty seven pass attempts in ten in the player, I mean in the in the first two rounds of the playoffs. So do you think his feelings are gonna be hurt now that you're saying Kyle is taking the ball out of his hands. No, And and that's what I love about Jimmy right now. Jimmy's like, bump it, you know, I'm just I'm just going out and playing and we're winning.

That's all the matters. So here's the million dollar question, why will this matchup be any different than the last six one? From a RAMS perspective? What's different now? What gives them a better shot to win this game than the last six times they played the Niners. I think number one. If I were the Rams, what I would say is number one. Um, all of these pieces that we brought in, these chip if we put in the middle of the table, they now all had some time

to acclimate. You know, Stafford has had a full year. O. B. J Has had X number of weeks. And this is what we talked about, that slant and go that they've been setting up all game. This is the explosive that you can get from O. B. J Odell Beckham Jr. Uh quick outruns, the cover is able to get in. This is what you need to do more of. Try to find ways to get him on those single coverages and take advantage of it. Von Miller has had X

number of weeks. And then the other flip side is that the Rams are actually getting as healthy as they've been all year. Remembering that Week eight team game, Fooler went down back there in the secondary and they just they weren't right. And so now basically what I'm hearing, there may be a chance that maybe he comes back. I don't know. I thought I thought I read that he might be able to come back this week. I

don't know. So I don't want to say that as if I know something, Um that would I mean, and they had to go they go get wet all, you know, off the street. Yeah. And now he's got, you know, two weeks under his belt, you know, to kind of get acclimated some because that first week you could tell he just didn't look right out there. Um but so from my standpoint, if I'm the Rams, those are the things that I hang my head on. And we've got anchors who's running so well if he holds onto the football,

um so and and and I will say this. And I was one of those people when they said which quarterback do you trust the least I had said going in the playoffs it was Stafford. And he has shown me in these playoffs. You know what, He's another guy that's playing with an attitude. Incredible job by Matthew Stafford and Cooper Cup back to back clutch long throws to get them in field goal range when they had no

more time outs left. Stafford came up big in the biggest game of his life, like, man, whatever it is, whatever I need to do, I'm gonna make the play eight. And he's doing it for the forty Niners, though, that elite level playmaker is Deebo Samuel. It's not the quarterback, it's it's Deebo Samuel, and he does it in our variety of ways. I'm just kind of curious, what are some of the conversations that and some of the things that you've heard from talking to people around the league

about how the forty Niners use Debo. The type of player is Yeah, before I get to that, I agree with you, Deebo is that is that that that X

factor that different sky. But I would also make the argument that I made this morning that while he may be the power cord, the electrical outlet that the forty nine is plugged into his George Kittle, Yes, because if you look at the numbers when he starts in plays versus when he doesn't, it's like those quarterback numbers, it goes from like a thirty eight percent uh, thirty eight win percentage to a sixty eight win percentage when he's

in there. So, um, he's that security blanket. He's that playmaker for Jimmy g. You go back to even the Packer game last week has four receptions, Well, every one of those receptions goes for a first down, every one of those receptions is for double digit yards, and then you look at the yards after the catch, and then I'm not even talking about his ability in the run game, where he's helping to create opportunities for Deebo and whatnot

because of his physicality at the line. So I always kind of pause on that and say, man, Deebo is all of that that we that we're hearing. But I truly believe George Kittle is like the heart and soul in terms of setting setting the environment, creating the culture that that offensive operates out of. Now, having said that, Devo Samuel, when you talk to people, coordinators, players, whatnot, they will tell you they're just aren't players like him.

Debo is an absolute feast. Wow, what a great play and and and everyone thought the ball was going to the front side. They counter it back to the left and Debo breaks the tackle board from great games go right around him, and then Darius Williams has a chance, underestimates the speed of Deebo. Samuel pushes that thing inside the pylon before the right foot stepped out. Big time run. Because you know, to be a wide receiver with a running backs build and a running backs mentality. He broke

three tackles, she's limping off the field. What a heroic run because he was hit at the line of scrimmage. Gods, you're curled in and closing in on him, but you couldn't take it down, not with an arm tackle. You've got to take him to the ground. He was determined to pick up that first down. For the forty niners, they just don't come along. So when people say, well, we gotta go find us a Deebo Samuel, well, it's

not that easy. Even Vante Adams last week was saying, you know, he was asked, hey, you're a big guy, You've got some physicality. If they put you in the backfield, could you do this? And he said no, he said, I don't have that build and and that same mentality de Ball has. So there are no factors there, but man, he's he's he's been a revelation for him from the standpoint that when they had injuries early in the year at the running back position and Kyle needed to do

something and started giving him reps there. And the thing that's so beautiful about the way this offense operates, like when you talk to coordinators who have played them, including Joe Barry again who twice a year was playing with the Rams, and he says, what happens is the thing that makes Kyle so special in this offense that typically when an offense sees a certain front, they know how to how they're going to attack it out of certain

personnel packages. So if you have eleven package or twelve packed or whatever, and you see, let's say this foreman front, this is how you're going to attack it, Well, what Kyle does is he'll show you that personnel package and you'll show him that front, but he will attack it in a different way than than what you expect or what you may have seen, and so you can never get a good read on them on what exactly they're

going to do. And the versatility of that of these players that Kyle has it allows him to do that. And that's that's what makes them so difficult to game plan for. Besides the physicality and all of that, is the fact that you see one package and you say if and normally with an opponent you say, if we give them this, this this front, this is how they're going to attack us. Kyle's like, no, not this time?

Am I doing Once but the next series or the next play, I'm going to attack it differently, you know, and so it just makes them very hard to figure out. Yeah, And the last thing I got for you, you know, we talked about coaching trees a lot, and I think a lot would be made, as it usually is when

the Rams and the Niners get together. Do you see any common threads between the two coaches, especially, you know, meeting here in the NFC Championship game in McVeigh and Shanahan and their lineage and where they come from and their influences. M Well, I mean obviously with Kyle his father, Yeah, you know that's huge, and and the concepts and schemes

that he runs. But just the two of them together, two young guys who I think who think differently in terms of creativity and willingness to try different things, to attack things in a different way. I think that I think that they also motivate differently, Like Kyle is brutally honest with guys like meat ones mind, like you go out and you draft I in the first round and then you get him to campus, and you know what,

you just ain't performing. So we're not gonna throw the ball to you and we're not gonna play you at times, and and and and he says it to you, and he says it to the media. He's just right up front. Sean is more in my opinion, when you watch him, he's more of that cheerleader is too strong a word. And I don't mean that in the derogatory matter. It's more of the positive influence or positive reinforcement if you will. Yeah,

that's kind of how he operates. So it's interesting to see there are two different styles, both in obviously both with great recall. Um, it feels like more of a diplomat, like just a little like approaches things a little bit

more diplomatically. Um, you know. And and but look, I find it interesting that they end up, you know, meeting, you know, they meet twice a year, and then they're gonna meet here on Sunday in uh in one of the biggest games that either one of them have coached in obviously you know Sean both have been to the Super Bowl loss. But um, it's it'll be it'll be quite a fight. And Jim appreciate you getting as ready for him, man, No, you got me excited now a Sunday,

I'm ready and that's gonna do it. For this episode of NFL Inside Report. Reminder to download, rate, review our show on the I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast We certainly appreciate it. We're back with you on Friday for a look at the a f C Championship Game as the Kansas City Chiefs get set to host the a f C Championship Game for a fourth consecutive year, and they get the upstart Cincinnati Bengals coming into town led by Joe Burrow.

We'll look at that matchup as we get closer to Championships Sunday. For producers Thomas Horn and Tim Paraca, I'm your host, Reret Louis. Thanks so much for being with us. We'll catch you next time. NFL Inside Report is the production of the NFL and partnership with I Heart Radio. For more official podcasts from the NFL, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.