Welcome back on in to Off the Edge with me, Cam Jordan, your host. I'mnna be sitting here talking about what happened the week four, whether that be our loss to the Buccaneers, the Khalil Mack six sack performance, jumping to the tops of the leaderboard of NFL sack leaders from zero to six all in one game in four quarters.
He was going, he was going off this weekend, We're also gonna, you know, sit down with one of my other edge guys, my rushers, my compatriot rushers, if you will, Max Crosby, and we're just gonna slide in and see how he feels about edge rushers, that term, that terminology ed rusher, What is it? Is there a difference between defensive ends and outside linebackers edge rusher encopassing both. So come on in off the Edge with Cam Jordan. So let's just start off and rip this band aid off.
The Saints are officially two and two. Started off hot, two wins in and then you know you lose a close, tight one two Green Bay and you should lose those type of games. And even all that went wrong, Derek Carr getting hurt, us not putting any points up in the second half, US allowing points to be put up in the second half on defensive side, it hurts. Even with all that, there was still a chance to drive down the field behind the helm of Jameis Winston. Put
yourself in field goal range. One field goal. We could have been sitting three and one, that's not the case, or three and zero headed into this week, you know, So then we go Tampa Bay, comes down to New Orleans and just lay an egg. I mean, three good quarters are played. You talk about our defense, what we wanted to do. Put pressure on Bacon Mayfield. I think Bacon Mayfield made a lot of great plays, was able to slip out the pocket, to elude the pocket, carry
some first first downs. I think that. You know, there was times where he was pressured, arms in his face, hands in his face, his body was thrown to the ground. He still made plays, still made throws. The guys like Mike Evans and Chris Godwin the like. There was times where you know, rookie the running back White look good and yet you'd still say he was averaging three under three and a half yards a carry. I call it a clip if you will. At the end of the day,
it just wasn't good enough. So we've got to rapidly improve. We have to turn that page on off day on Tuesday, break down that film for the incoming New England Patriots. Don't know who's going to be the quarterback. It could be Zap, it could be you know, they can go back to mac Jones. We got a lot of things we want to do. We got a lot of talent. We had Alva Kamara come back this last week looking special. The way he's able to go between those tackles, bounce out,
bounce in. It's special to watch when you have guys like Mike Thomas and the snags he had this game. You see Rashid Shaheed and the speed that he brings. He's electric. And then of course, you know you can't not talk about you know, our dbs who have stepped up, had an interception in the end zone when we need
it the most. So it's got to be it's got to be a whole team effort, which brings us to you know what we saw around the league where you have guys like the Seattle Seahawks eleven sacks, even standout performances Khalil Mack.
O'Connell looking in the middle of the field, hit and he is dropped, sacked.
Who do you think? It was? Unbelievable?
The sixth sack for Khalil Mack, a new Chargers record, a loss of ten, a new individual record for Khalil Mack in a single game.
Yep, maybe zero sacks going into the game, but it takes one game to hit the leaderboard. As Khalil Mack could show you zero to six. Real quick man had six sacks in one game, left side, right side, in tier, exterior pass rush, extraordinary speed, rush, bullrush, power, whatever you want to call it. He had it all. He was in his bag. A shout out salute to Khalil Mack doing what you do. There's a reason why you know, you're always in conversations of being one of the top
defensive players. The games like this, then they can't when olfs, the line can't track you, when even when they get ahold of you, they can't really get ahold of you. Chargers had six sacks in one game, all of them. Clil Mack.
You mentioned the Giants game. Eleven sacks. Is that the defense being is that the Seahawks defense being that good or the Giants offensive line that bad.
There's another line, no one soon and Daniel Jones, I mean, if I don't know what else, as you said, he's not allowed to do anything back there because he just has absolutely no time. Come on, you talk about you talk about Seattle defense as a whole. What two interceptions, eleven sacks. There wasn't much that the Giants could do to stop the defense. I feel like maybe I'm biased
as a defensive guy. I could care less who's at helm when things are clicking at all cylinders, when you have pour down linemen that are just getting sacks, when you have linebackers adding in on sacks, when you have your blitz adding in on sacks, when you have you know, guys jumping routes, taking taking first and second reads away, You're not leaving much space to breathe for a quarterback
when the defense is rolling. Pick your poison is what Seattle pretty much gave the Giants, and uh that poison was drank. I mean, it just is what it is.
So one of the other thing that happened in that game happened over the weekend. The Giants, the Chargers, the Patriots, they all tried the now the infamous Eagles Toush push all failed, all three of them. So clearly it's not just right. It's not just it's not as easy to do. It's it doesn't seem like if they're failing and the Eagles are the only ones able to do it consistently, what does that tell you.
It's Jalen Hurts. It's the Jalen Hurts effect. I think that the Eagles tried the Toush push last year against the New Orleans Saints and it didn't work. With Gardner Minshew. You know, Jalen Hurts is is uh from what I from I've been told and what I've heard is not only a great guy, but he's he's a gym rat. He's a musclehead. You know, he's one of those. Uh he's one. But yeah, power lifting four five, six hundred pounds squadters whatever that is. And to clear there's some
drive there. Because you take Jaalen Hurts out of there, you insert Gardnermentshew, You're not getting the same push, You're getting the same to You're getting the same push, push, but not the same result.
He's not as powerful.
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say. You know, an assisted quarterback sneak.
Okay, But but if you're when you're going up against that, what's what's how do you beat it? What's the what's the plan.
Your guys up front? It's always gonna come down to the defensive line, right, I mean if the defensive line, the interior can interrupt one. You know that that center trying to lean forward, the quarterback driving, You're gonna have that as well, But it's gonna be that It's gonna be those nose tackles that detackle, hopefully in a five D line front because you've you've already signaled in you know, you know exactly what play that there they're about to run.
You've got you know, a three zero three which is a a nose tackle or dtackle in a three which is the outside shoulder of the guard or hopefully a two I inside shoulder of the guard now taking up that a gap. Then you got a nose right next to him. And then you got another formidal nose or de tackle right next to him again this three zero three or two eyes zero two I inside shades of the guard and head up on the center. You create that wall. And as long as that wall is you
know it is not moving and or pushing backwards. You then have your rally points, just like a quarterback assisted sneak Toush push. I don't like this Toush push reference, but this assisted quarterback sneak it has you know, two helpers. You have linebackers flying in as well, so there's there's there's helpers versus helpers. So then it just becomes a game of horsepower who has more.
So it's not just lower low man wins.
It's gonna be low man wins, but also comes down to you know, will GrITT and a little bit of luck.
I thought you were going to say it was it's the Jason Kelsey effect.
Jason kel You think Jason Kelsey is moving people like that? Jason Kelsey is. His prowess is amazing, his power is decent, but he's not that nobody's ever been, like, Wow, that's a monster of a man. You know, Jason Kelsey is smart, he's aggressive at the point of a contact that he's a surefire veteran. And I'm just going to say probably a Hall of Famer maybe because he's draft class of twenty eleven.
Yeah, makes sense. It's a couple of Hall of famers in that draft class.
Just a few, just a few, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, if you if you look at the draft class of twenty eleven, which could probably be a whole nother argument itself, you figure the number one draft pick overall probably has a shot at the Hall of Fame. Cam Newton, right, has a shot. Don't know if he gets in, but let's just go von Miller getting in. You know. The next one you're probably going to put in is possibly Patrick Peterson. You're you know, like that's another possible.
What about Julio Jones.
Julio Jones is definitely in. JJ Watt, probably in you know, one hundred in.
Over one hundred and ten Sacks, Cam Jordan, maybe.
Ah, Cam Jeorge TVD. You know you high chance that there there's five or six Hall of Famers. I mean, if it's up to me, sure, I'd say I'm in, But you know, you group you group myself into that. That idea of edge rusher Cam Hayward possibly gets in, you know, like he's part of Steelers. Yeah, he's part of the Steelers defense. So your figure he's going to get in, you know, like once you've been a part
of Steelers defense, ten years. They just like look at your stats and say you're probably getting here, like whether they were one hundred sacks deep or fifty sacks deep. You're part of the quote unquote vaunted Steelers history line. You're probably got a good edge. For some reason, Steelers get in. It's the culture, right, It's no doubt the history is the eleven you what do you have? Five or six?
Seven? About five? That's just the first round? Five?
Aj Green? You know, yeah, justin Houston, Richard Sherman. You've got guys in there, Jason Kelcey again, m come on. I mean typically with when guys, yeah, I mean when guys talk about their draft class, right, you'd be like, oh, the you know Aaron Donald, like was that twenty fourteen and they're like, oh, his draft class are so deep
or twenty eleven. Oh, you know, they're amazing. They're typically speaking about the first rounders, right, right, and then a draft class you're like, you're not You're not just like, oh, yeah, because our third rounder here was good. Like they're they're additives. Like in terms of an ice cream Sunday, a draft class is judged by, you know, the first rounder is the ice cream and then the second rounders cherries, then the third rounders sprinkles, then everything else some random sauce.
But your draft class is pretty much judged by your first round.
I agree. I mean that's a pretty strong class, like up and down.
It's a lot of death, no doubt, no doubt, a lot of a lot of depth, a lot of a lot of a lot of good thing. You know, a lot of conversations, which which is crazy, is you know normally a draft class, Yeah, you have your first round is but you're like judge for sure by your quarterbacks, right, You're like, oh, they draft class had so many excellent quarterbacks, whereas our quarterbacks sort of were like not the highlight beyond Cam Newton.
Yeah, there were four that one in the first round that year.
And some would say I'm a little biased in that too because they like messed up a little of my top fifteenage in me, I went twenty fourth overall. Not betty or bitter about it, you know, but like there was a Christian Ponder, then there was a Blaine Gabbard yep.
And you know Jake Locker was the other one, Jake Locker ten. Do you remember who went right before you?
No, twenty three phil No, it was it was It was a Canadian that went to Philadelphia.
Give your hand. He played guard.
Yeah, any Danny Watkins from d Yeah, it was a Canadian fired men from Baylor, and I specifically remember him because I was You know that twenty eleven was a different year, was a lockout year ish in terms of guys. The previous year, you know, first rounders were getting all their money. You know, that was the was that Matt Staffords last year. That was in dominicate, sue.
That was Jerald McCoy, the outrageous bonus man.
Of the amazing bonuses that guys earned and deserved by playing excellent in college, which we thought we were getting that in twenty eleven. You know, the previous twenty fourth overall pick, Dez Bryant, his contract was like fifteen and changed right Cam Jordan's contract at twenty fourth overall seven and mid seven seven. Some would say half as his face saying aye a year later, No, you're not bitter
about that. No, it's cool, Like it's it's fine. It's like, oh, I buy my mom a house, next contract, not this one, not this one.
You know, just you're gonna pay loans at the first one, right.
Yeah, that twenty eleven. You know, God is good because I was blessed enough to to, you know, go to the University of California at Berkeley, and you know, see my teammate Tyson o'lulu go tenth overall to Jacksonville the year before, and I was like, man, I feel like I'm just as good as him. Like I feel like I we have comparable stats, Like we're comparable ish, like he's probably more of an inside interior guy and I'm just like an edge guy and got to the league
and they tried to make me interior guy. So I was more like Tyson than I thought.
You were the sixth defensive end taken in the first round.
That makes perfect sense. I mean, come on, there was just quote unquote edge or d Lineman. I mean, there was Von Miller right goat status. There was Alden Smith fast to forty five sacks before Danielle Hunter, I believe before TJ. Watt, so all in Smith to the Niners, which I was like, yo, col Bears, Niners, Cam Jordan. That makes sense. No, they were an all Smith not a bad choice. You know, Jessic Smith was anchoring that that that uh D line, that Smith from Missouri Massoo
combo was amazing. Then you had JJ Watt at eleven yep.
You know.
Then you had Ryan Kerrigan ninety five and a half career sacks, ninety six and ninety six sacks and a half bow ninety five and a half career sacks. Then after after that, I was like, yo, it's definitely. I was like, yo, it's time. I was. I was sort of eyeing like after after TJ or after JJ went, I was like, cowboys sound decent. Then they went Tyrone Smith and I was like, no, no, that makes sense. Hall of Famer out of USC gone against Tyron Smith.
Pretty much my whole coage career was like, no, he's really good, that he deserves that. And then you talk about after that, it was I was like, all right, here we go san Diego. We talked, we had some inklings that San Diego is gonna be it. Oh, Corey legit out of Illinois, and I was like, okay, all right, we're getting a little nervous. But you know what, I had gone to Tampa Bay and I had felt really good. At twenty. I looked at my agent. My agent was
like yeah, bro, you crushed that. I went to Tampa Bay talked to coach Raheem Moore and he was head coach at the time, and I was like, yeah, he vibed with me. I vibe with him. I was like, they got Jared McCoy. I was like, they got a
stack d line. I was like, yo, Tampa Bay, let's ride they they need a defensive vand And as you know, a twenty one year old in the green room in New York, when you bring your family up for the first round to get selected and your agent has told you're supposed to go top fifteen, I was like twenty, I says lo as she goes. I was like, all right, fellas, Tampa Bay, it is not actually because they went Adrian Clayborne out of the University of Iowa. Good player, good player.
And then there was might have been Phil Taylor from Baylor, Wow, or Mohammad Wilkerson.
No, you were right, Phil Taylor. Phil Taylor from Baylor, another Baylor product.
He was kind, silent and a dog in college. I wish, you know, I wish we had a chance to team up. They brought him on for a workout one time. I got to say what's up to my dog? And then he was out of there, but uh, he was a monster in college up and then Mohammed Wilkerson might have been right after me.
So nope, James Carpenter.
That's the office of Lineman. I was thinking straight defensive lines. Yeah, defensive lineman. But yeah, there was There was James Carpenter, he was a guard at Alabama. Then Danny Watkins and then yours truly, which means Mohammad Wilkerson was after me. But there was a lot of d Linman. Then there's Cam Hayward right at the top of the top of like end of the first round.
Yep, thirty one.
Was he the last first round pick? Or no it was it was Green Bay, Greenmay Packers, Mississippi State Office of Lineman, Derek Shrod or something like that.
Yep. So that's the thing, guys really remember, No, not at all. That's a thing.
No, that's not it's not a thing.
Like do you guys have a wall, you have a wall that you keep from James.
No?
Uh, you know, because that picked like was the Giants was like nineteenth or twenty first something like that. My guy Prince of Mukamara nineteen Prince of Mukamarrat out of Arizona with my year in high school. We were going against It was me, him, Everson Griffin and like a center that ended up going to USC or something like that. That was like going up for Arizona Player of the Year, clearly the Arizona Boys. So you know, like you gotta you have like these small stories that keep you intrigued
and in trance, you know best. My best friend was from that draft class, mark Ingram picked twenty eight. I was doing my interviews and by the time I was doing my interviews in New York, you know, my guy mark Ingram gets drafted and I.
Was like, say, what did you guys know each other?
No, not at all. Met in the elevator, just said, what's up. You know i'd heard you know, clearly I heard of him. I don't know if he had heard of me. But like, you know, Heisman Trump, Heisman Trophy winner. He was the first one to throw the double the imprinted gloves sticky gloves up with the Alabama like. He was the first one to like really put his school on his hands after you score a touchdown, iconic deuce
is loose. Alabama, the first Alabama Heisman Trophy winner mark Ingram wouldn't be the last, but for sure the first helped bring, you know, the idea of Title Town back to Alabama. But it's like it's stories like that. You know, Prince of Mukamara, We're on the plane ride over from Arizona to New York and his father was like, my son, Prince, first round pick, top ten, top ten, and you know, my dad was like, oh yeah, no doubt, and he was just like you could feel the pride there.
You know, you want to get your thoughts on. So there's a lot of buzz around Rodney Harrison's comments on Zach Wilson after the game against the Chiefs, and he called him garbage. And if you watch the interview with Chris Jones he talked to after the game, it sounded like he was trying to bait him to agree with the fact that he doesn't think Rodney Harrison, that is, Zach Wilson is a good NFL quarterback.
So just, I mean, garbage is a very hot take. And that's a strong stance to take as an NFL player, to a former NFL player, to a NFL player of this day and age right now, granted, Rodney Harrison, there's a reason why you have to respect what he says because he had over thirty interceptions, right, probably twenty thirty sacks. Rodney Harrison wasn't all pro So if he says what he sees or try to bait you into something, I'd ask for more explanation. But that being said, man like
Zach Wilson has the arm clearly. You know, you guys go to combine show off their talents. Zack Wilson was one of those. You know, everybody remembers the little rollout bomb that he threw, and you saw Malik Willson, Malik Willis do the same thing and whatever that is. But trash is too strong of a word, especially for a young quarterback like he's. He could be seven eight years
in and he could still be growing. Like, quarterbacks don't really hit their prime until what like you're like where they get like really accurate, really good, really when you get the chunk of their career is like that year eight to thirteen for a quarterback. So I just I just feel like that's that's harsh. There's definitely quarterbacks that have more room to improve, and there's quarterbacks that are
not as good as Zack Wilson. But when you see you know, when you see commentators drop hot takes, there's a reason you know it takes her drop this clickbait. We can continue talking about speculation accusations if you will all day about he said, he said, she said, we said. All I know is the Saints need to get these wins.
Uh.
Anyway they come and they come in bunches, so I need them to group together. We're gonna continue to talk about edge rushers and maybe favorite pass rush moves, but one of my favorite pass rushers is coming up next. Stay tuned. I'm sitting here as it off the edge with Cam Joy because I'm a defensive end off the edge. You know what I'm saying. If we're gonna talk about more than just me, well bringing my guy Max Crosby. Were talking about dog underrated still somehow pressure King. I
met him. This was rookie year Max Crosby after the season at an NFL Honors show. Sitting next to him. Really got to talk to my guy and he became my dog. We sort of have similar agents. We have agents on the same team. It's like we're on the same side. We wrote the amount of defensive end talks. We have just the respect I have for a guy like you, Max. It speaks volumes. I mean you're at forty sacks. Forty sacks change been in the league for a few years. But that being said, Bro, you've been here.
Like they said, the NFL is not for a long time, but a good time. Bro, you have made the most out of these five years. Bro, have been going crazy, not only from stat wise but all pro Pro Bowl player leader on the on the Raiders, they call you Mad Max, not just your rapper name. You're off the edge defensive line persona.
Bro.
I appreciate you for tapping in with me.
Bro, No, I appreciate you, Bro. And you know the love goes both ways. You've been an OG for me since day one. So, like you said, we got a ton of connections, all the same people in the same circle. We know all the same people from Vaughn you know, working at his camps and on and on and on and on. So I appreciate you, Bro, and in your career. And you know, I don't say this about many people, but like there's a lot of guys you know from
like you and Vn. Y'all set the you know the platform and the blueprint for how to do it, and uh, you give me a ton of inspirations.
So just being here as an honor bro, So I appreciate you.
Perfect, Bro. I appreciate it.
Bro.
I just want to like, I'm gonna open it up because I talk about it a lot, this idea that there's defensive ends and there's edge rushers. And you just brought up me and Vaughn same draft class twenty eleven Von edge rusher, me defensive end. You know what I'm saying, Like, where are you sitting this convo? Because they they plugged all of us together now outside linebacker quote nquote, your jacks, your wills are sometimes now edge rushers, and I'm like, oh, you can't do what I do.
Yeah, No, I feel that, you know, honestly, like you said, like they try to just like put everybody into that edge category.
But I think you're right.
You know, at the end of the day, the edge position is it comes to so many different way you know, shapes and sizes.
So that's what I think is the most special position because.
You could have a guy who's five ten, two sixty and can rush the hell out of the pass or in seid and edge. But then you could have a six six dude that's you know, Tom lanky that can still get the job done, but in a different way. So you know, for me, I don't you know, I don't like to put anybody in the box, you know, for me, like I said, like, I want to be the best all around defensive end from pass rushers, stop
in the run. I play, you know how, I'm like you, I play every freaking snap like That's how I how I carry myself. So like, I don't want to be just known as a pass rusher or just a run stopping guy.
Like I want to be the best overall. So that's you know, that's how I look at it.
Got to be the best overall.
Bro.
Like, but I'm here to like, don't get a twist, I'm here to play this run first.
Yeah one hundred. Bro.
Wait, what do you prefer to four eye, which is you know, that inside shade of a tackle or do you prefer that five which the outside, saye the tackle or even in nine?
Oh yeah, no, I'll leave the you know, I'll leave the four eye to you.
But for me, you know, I'm playing, I like playing in a five or six or seven nine technique.
You know that's me.
I like being on the edge at all times, no question. You know you got you're weighing like too eighty.
I don't. I'm like two sixty. You know what I mean.
I don't need to be but I'll do it. You know I've done it right. I prefer to be on the edge at a.
High level push on. We all have our preferences. Me, I mean, I really want to be a six syde, Like if I could line up inside of a tight end. Yeah, I'm really I'm really putting hands on a tight end. Like that's when I'm like, I'm trying to choke somebody out, like and I get that rage and me I'm like, yeah him, I gotta get him.
Yeah.
Oh bro, I played the four I too, Like it's it is what it is. This is a different mindset, bro. When you think about first second down, then I think about third down. Like that's where like that's how I attack the lines, right, I'm not thinking like, hey, pass play, pass play unless unless like office line is given hints or you know, like a formation like four outs is is typically a pass play. Like I'm thinking like all right, back off set he coming my way, and I like,
I got that smile on you. You know what I'm saying. I'm like, I'm like, yo, they come in my way. Let's do this stutter punch with what it is. Let's rite when you think about what it takes to be a defensive end. Have you ever thought about, like the characteristics what it takes. Not just it's like, oh, you gotta be long, you gotta be tall, because you've seen Jerry Jerry Hughes do it. You've seen Nick Perry do it,
You've seen Tevon Thibodeau, whatever it is. What do you think is the characteristics of a good defensive end?
You know?
I think you know the characteristics you got to have, like you talked about, is having that dog mentality. I think that's what separates, you know, the good players and the great players. And like you said, you can go to an NFL combine, guys can run a four to four look like the biggest Leonitas on the planet.
But once you put pads on, you're like, like, what the heck is this?
You know?
I like, yeah, you can't bro like yeah, but like you see it all the time.
Like Tarzan, but he played like Jane, Like, that's a real that's a real sentience because you be like, bro, he looked, he looked like he major and get.
It there be mad.
He'd be like that don't make no sense.
It doesn't make sense. But that's what you know when you talk about mentality. They got to have that dog in him, Like that's something you can't determine by looking at somebody at a combine Like that really comes from watching the film on Somebody. Feel like that's the most important thing. You got to watch film and see who's willing to put their nose in it, you know, and freaking go ahead, you know it's bull rush, have all the mixture of combinations, but be relentless at the same
time chasing the ball, flying to the ball. I think the things that require no talent or the most important thing to play that position the other shit on top of it. Obviously, we're all NFL players, so you got to have the ability to rush and bend and do all those things. But I think the most important thing is just having that relentless you know, I'm not gonna stop. Nobody's gonna outplay, you know, outwork me during the game.
I think that's what you know, separates you know, the great players from the good ones.
Man facts. Do you think sometimes like the way I talk crap on like y'all you know I talk crap the way you talk crap on the field, the passion, the love that we have for the game. Like it feels like when we win, like that's how you're supposed to play the game. But when we lose, like that's when you feel like media sort of like the attack you like, oh you have to be that, Like what do you mean, Like this is who I am as a monster bro? Like, do you feel like sometimes your
passion as a competitor gets misconstrued by other people? Yeah, let that affect you.
No, I don't let it affect me. I'm always gonna be me. You know.
I definitely take some you know, I feel like more recently in the past year, I've taken a lot of heat just from like you know, they released the quarterback thing where they see me like going after my homes and talking messing with them and like everyone's like, oh my.
God, he's an apple, he's a jerk.
And then they see me like they released a micd up and I was like, I took our tight end like twenty yards off the ball and just body slammed them just to set the tone, and like they're like this, dude's an apple, But like I love that because that's who I am. Like it's not they're just getting to see it now, but like that's why I am as a player. My mentality is like I don't care who's in front of me. I'm gonna talk. I'm gonna try to get in their head and I'm gonna try to
make them feel less than what they are. You know, they might be a good player, I want to make them feel average. So that's what I started to play to play basis. So if they don't like it, that's not my problem, right.
Somebody brought that up to like what is Max like that? I was like Max, that dude. I was like, yeah, he puts me like that, Like what do you What do you want me to do? You want me to be like the Andrew luck of a defensive end, Like it's just like, hey, i'll see you next time.
Yeah I can't do that, bro, I'm gonna be one hundred percent me. If you don't like it, you don't like it. But the people that love me, they love me for that. So it's like that love me, you know, that's all that matters to me.
I don't get it. You think we're all friends, Like I'm not supposed to Like the officer lineman I'm going against. I think he's that slow and I think he can't mess with me. That's the reason why I'm on the edge. And he's he's in his position that he's in. He's like he's a kid that grew up eating hell of candy and snacks a middle of the night, played Fortnite duty, you know.
You know, drinking a coke sitting there.
Absolutely, he says, and he says things like I'm athletic, are you? Because you're the only one telling yourself that you're athletic? You know, Like you're not supposed to be friends, bro, Like, I don't get it. Like you know, when we talked to Vaughan this past year and Vonn was like, man, you know, I like to I like to get to know him, the officer the line, and I'll be going against a guy and I'll be like, hey, man, how's your day? Oh man, man, I saw you had kids.
How's your kids? Man? I ain't never asked none of that.
See for me, No, that's funny you say that, because like there's like majority of the time like I'm gonna be on that with whoever it is, like just to get myself going, like there's some guy like I feel like it's different, you know when it comes to the old lineman, Like there's some old lineman, like even a Garret Bowles for instance, Like my first couple of years in the league, like me and him a match up twice a year, and like we were going like we
were damn near fighting every play and we're talking and going at it, going at it.
And then like by the end of my.
Second year, we played each other for like the fourth time, and he started walking across the field like we were getting personal, like this was going there. I'm like, all right, I'm ready to fight. I already know what it is about to be. And he walked up to me and I'm like this after the game, we're fighting right now. And he's like, Bro, I love you, Bro, I'm gonna just say that, like I respect the guy to you.
He was like at the end of the day, he was like, you're you bring it more than anybody, Like he just had a lot of good shit to say.
Bro, But like that's for me, that was a cool aast moment.
So like every time I see him now like he did lays sees me, he's like, I love you, bro, and then it's what I mean, it's like.
How did do something like? Yeah?
So every you know, every situation is different, and uh, you know, it is what it is. But for me, like I'm always trying to find that edge, whether it's you know, talking or whatever I gotta do to get that.
Man.
I mean, but that competitive that's what makes you like great. Like I don't, like I said, I don't want to like you. I don't want to I can like you outside the lines. In between these lines, you are an obstacle, your speed bump, your literally your job is literally to stop me from getting to where I'm trying to go. Yeah, like you, if I'm trying to get out the gated community, guess I got to get out to get out of there, like the speed bump, and guess what that off my
names that speedbump. So hey, man, break the thing now. Man, I'm trying to get in there, bro. But but that's what it sort of takes for me to get to the process. For you, you, bro, you worked all the way through. So the leadership that you have now the locker rooms in a good place between you guys like Davante Adams. Tell me that leadership process, especially for a guy like you know, Davante who had to come in and be cultivated to the to the raider style of
play or bring his culture on to you. That leadership between you and him, because I see it on the field. I see he chirps, you chirp your defense, your office response when you guys like talking like that. Leadership qualities that you guys have to me, tell me a little bit about that in locker room.
Yeah, no doubt. You know, uh, you know, you nail the raid on the head.
You know DeVante, he's you know, he's like, I think this is tenth year.
You know, he's close to you.
He's been in the league for a long time now, and he the dude is elite at what he does. And at the same time, he brings that energy no matter if his practice or game day, and he's always doing extra. So when you have a guy that's the first, you know, three years in a row, first Seamau pro and he's also one of your artist workers, like there's nothing you could say. So like, guys are going to naturally follow. And that's why I work the way I work, you know what I mean. I'm always I'm staying on
guy's ass, especially the young guys. Like I make people uncomfortable sometimes and I try to push them out of their comfort zone. But like for me, you know, I've it's taking years to earn that right and like for not you know, Now, that's what leadership is all about.
Is I want to bring the guys with me.
I want them you know, they might not get up to my level right out the gate, but it's gonna take time. And if they can go from here to here, then I've done my job. And if I can bring all the guys with me, that's that's what I could do. So like that's how I push it, bro Like, yeah, I just want to make you know, everybody's different, you know.
And I learned this from coach Marionelli too. He told me, it's like, you know, what makes a coach great is, uh, you know, being able to adapt to all your different players because certain you know, every guy's different, Certain players tick a certain way. Some guys you know, need to
get mother sometimes and that's how they get going. And some guys you got to be nice to them and then that's so it's like I try to learn and really know who my guys are as people, and we do d line dinners every week, Like they'll come to the house, I'll have chefs come and we'll you know, just kick it and like do stuff like that, so I can really learn who the person is. Because you can't go and mother somebody and you don't even know
what their child's name is. Yeah, that's a problem, Like you I don't want to you know, I'm not going to listen to that. But if I have a real relationship with them, then you know you can.
Then there's a reason, Like he's receptive because he's like, Bro, he cares about me as persons and he wants me to be the best version of meet.
One hundred per bro. And that's that's how I lead. And our locker room's great.
Bro.
I love the guys and we have a lot of good people and a lot of hard workers. So yeah, we just got to you know, keep rolling and get this thing on board.
When it comes down to it, clearly you've earned the love, respect, and accolades that You've gotten and earned it each and every step of the way. Bro, the way you play has been phenomenal. The way you get out the stacks and like, I'm like, yo, like you have to get out the stacks. I'm like, Bro, you think you could be all prob without getting out of the stacks? Broat you watch Max? He's mad Max on Sundays. He going crazy. You're chasing things down, You're running things down. And now
we got your former quarterback Derek Carr. He talks so highly of you. He's like, Bro, you might be the only person that runs just as much as Mad as Max does after practices or whatever. It is, Like, Bro, I always see running, He's always running. I'm like absolutely. I was like, dude's a dog for a reason. He earns it. But that being said, Bro, it's also put you in the spot to what were you this year on ESPN seventeen?
Yeah? Seven?
Does that motivate you at all? Does that affect you at all? Like for me, I be like, bro, it's just another year. Like there's years when I was like, oh, I know I'm top twenty and been number ninety nine, And there's years that I've all right, like I'll probably talk that might be bottom fifty this year and been as high as like thirty something. It just depends. But does it affect you or motivate you?
Honestly, it motivates me. Like for me, I don't like having anybody have anything like over me. If I you know what I mean, if I'm first im pressures and first and TFLs and like there's always going to be something that I'm trying to find that somebody has over me, and like that sit will bother me until I get back out there and try to get closer to that. So like I use things like that as motivation, you know, more than anything.
And like that's just like how my mind works.
I'm ultra competitive no matter what I'm doing, and like, yeah, I want to be the number one player, Like I was ranked seventeenth, you know, by my peers as a player in the NFL. Like just thinking about that, you know, five years ago, if you'd have told me I'm in the top twenty like in the league and that's in.
The world, Like that's crazy.
But at the end of the day, like now where I'm at, like there's always more And like I got that from Coach Marinelli, Like he texted me damn near every single day to this day.
And he's retired seventy five years old.
I don't know what the hell he's doing in his lab, but he's he always had it's more and improved.
Like those are the two words he always is preaching to me.
He's like, you, there's always more to do and there's always room for improvement, and like you have to find what that is every single day.
So like for me, that's how my brain works.
Like I could have a good game, i could have a bad game, but like I'm always going to find the things I got to get better at and apply that into my practice and preparation the next week.
So that's what I feel like.
The consistency part is like so big for me, and what's taking my game at the next level is like never getting content or too high or too low. It's like, all right, I'm gonna stay right here, even keeled, and just build off of it every single week. And that's how you put together a great season, is not you know, riding the roller coaster. You just gotta you know, let the certain things you know how you know how you tick?
You know, I know how I tick. You know how you tick, So like, for me, I'm gonna find that and use it for a positive.
That mentality has changed, bro, even in the last what five years ago you were rookie to now Bro, Yeah, there was that like two or three years ago when you were like, Bro, like, I'm getting all these pressures, but I'm like, the sacks aren't where they supposed to be. And we talked about it. You're like, Bro, Like like
how do I was like, Bro, what do you? It all comes around, Bro, if you're getting pressures, that means you're getting closer as long as you as long as I don't even remember the whole conversation, I was like, Bro, as long as you're hunting, Like eventually, if you keep stabbing at it, you're going to draw blood. You know what I'm saying?
Like blood.
You took off after that, Bro, But like, does that that competitive edge you have, that chippy wheel? Does that also come from not saying smaller school, but like you going in the you know, middle of the draft that that fourth round draft pick? Is that an extra added mentality from like I didn't come from nothing, but like they didn't they didn't respect me the way they were supposed to.
Yeah, you know, I always I've always felt like I've been slept on and I feel like I've always had to go above and beyond to like prove my worth. I know, it's a part of my journey, you know, like being you know, I've been with the Raiders. You know, we've had you know, three out of four years they have made the playoffs, and it's been a struggle. Like I was a fourth round pick, I had one offer coming out of high school. Like I've always had to
go above and beyond and do what I do. But it's like that's what makes me who I am, and like I love it. I wouldn't change it for anything, And like it is hard because I feel like, you know, I don't always have the greatest, you know deck of cards. But at the end of the day, that's what makes me who I am because I've always found a way, Like I've never I never quit, Like no matter if I start something, I'm gonna finish it. And that's how I approach every single day. So like I love when
people doubt me. I love and they tell me, oh he's not. Like even last year, like I thought I should have been an all pro like that's I thought about that all year and like you know when he played Lineman and like you have a good game and they'll come out and be like, oh we got locked up, he didn't get a sack, blah blah blah blah blah, and then they'll show two clips and you're getting blocked
and like you kill them the rest of the time. Like, Bro, that sits in my mind, Like I don't want anybody to have anything over So like that's what it is for me. Bro, It's every single day, Like I'm just I'm just competitive shit, Like it doesn't matter if I'm playing two K if I'm hanging in the back talking with the guys, like it doesn't matter. I don't want anybody to have anything over me. And like that's that's what pushes me every single day.
That's that's that one when you go gets Officer Lineman and you've beating him outside inside, through and you're coming right there at the quarterback. Bro, Like I'm like there was there was times this last two games I'm just like literally filling the lace on the ball and being launched and I'm like, oh, they techle played good against you. Yeah, You're like you're like, bro, like it was me, Like I didn't get there, but you know that's on me, it's not him. He didn't stop me either way. It
was a quick release whatever it was. Like, But do you think some of that is like instinct verse technique? Like yo, like you when you're looking at your film for your spin move in that quarterback stepping up and you have a hand on the shoulder and he slips out of there. I know you've talked about stretching, flexibility, grip strength, Like what what do you think it is to finish in those plays?
I think it's a combination.
You know, you got to have, Like I think that's you know, differ between a pressure, like you can get pressures. You know they count hurries and you know present they're all combined. So like, yeah, if the ball's gone in two seconds and you're beating them in one and a half, like you can't do anything about that, but you're winning the rush, Like that's what it really comes down to.
If you're winning a high percentage of rushes and you have natural football instincts and you're reading your keys, you're playing with pad level, you're working that you work in practice like guys that me and you, like Bro, we've been pro bowlers, Like we trust our moves and we think we know they're gonna work if we trust them and do them the right way, and our pad levels right and our eyes are right and our cell is right,
like all that matters. So like for me going into the game, I'm trusting that process, like I'm gonna break down the film. I'm gonna see what I can do better from the week before, and like I'm gonna start looking at my opponent. How can I beat this guy? How can I dissect them? And like for me, it's not just like you know when you talk about like finishing,
that's finishing. Just you know, every little detail matters. And like I talk about from practice to the weight room, like the grip strength thing, like I do grip after every workout now, like I've done it for years now, just because that extra grab and like.
Wait, which which one?
Which one do you do?
Do you have?
Do you have like the hand machines or do you Like I do my grip strength where like I hold I hold the forty five pound what is it, twenty two kilo weights and I do that for time or then like I started a couple of years ago. Our d line coach introduced like flipping these things. Yeah, now I'm like flipping and catching, Like on a Thursday, I'm like flipping catching these forty five pounds waights, just like in those weeks that you don't have you like, all right,
all rights, because I do have my finger. Not an excuse, but like gotta go, just back to hole. What would be your favorite grip strength exercise? Would you say?
Yeah, I would say my favorite, Like we do a ton ton of different ones, Like today we had like the fat grippers on, which are hard as hell, and you deal with kettlebells like you can't fully grip and you're just shaking.
I don't know about this. What do you wait?
Wait, explain I I'll send it to you.
Yeah, it's different, but I sat with what like thirty five forty pounds.
No, you get like it's sixty I'll say sixty pound kettlebell. You do like you do like sessions, so you do like thirty seconds with it with it, and then twenty seconds with a heavier weight, and then you do like towel holes, so you wrap it around the kettlebell and you hold with a towel and it's heavy, Like, Bro, I gotta I got some for you. I'll say, take bro, my god, I'm wanting to learn. I like I'm telling you Rick Slate my guy in here in the train. He's one of my He's like the main guy works
out with me. He's my puts me through every workout. That dude, you don't stop working out, Bro, he's an og Bro he's and he gets right you're.
Going through prison workouts, ya workouts.
He has me screaming, like cussing him out. I'm so mad. I hurts so bad, but it pays off in the end.
I'm not gonna lie, bro, Like you surprised me? What was that this pass Pro Bowl? We were talking like, Bro, I'm working out here every day still, like like there is no shut down for me in the off season. Is there a shutdown period? When do you recoup the bod? Like for me, I have to like I gotta get away fam like I disappear for like a month, like work it out, no arn it like I gotta eat, love my family love me. We're not in football season. I'm not necessarily like the greatest. I don't think I'm
the greatest dad, husband, brother, anything. I'm like, yo, it's Thursday. So Thursday through Sunday, I'm locking the hell in, Like I don't even like to do media by Wednesday is Friday, Like, don't ask me Saturday. I am so locked in. I'm like, I got things I have to do on Sunday. I'm not a person's Onday. I'm coming with bad intentions. When do you get away and become you know, like daddy Max got to love you?
Yeah?
No, honestly, bro Like, this was after my third year and fourth year, like or no, it was after my second year and third year. I would start after the Super Bowl That's when I would start training. And this year, you know, we didn't make the playoffs, and you know, I talked to my strength coach, I talked to my nutritions all this, and he was like, hey, we're going to start January thirtieth this year, and this is why we're going to ease, you know, ease into the process.
Boom boom boom. He broke it down to me.
You know, I have a team of people that all you know, collaborate and communicate here with the Raiders. So it was great and I started.
Your own team of people, Hey I'm here.
I'm here by myself. You know what I mean.
When you when you hear about yourself, you get everybody, you get all the resources. So yeah, you know we started January thirtieth, and so yeah, I took like two and a half weeks off and I was back rolling, but I was still meal prepping even after the season, and like, I always want to stay in shape. And no matter what I hate, there's nothing worse than going and put eating like sh for two weeks and you have to drop weight and then you're just wasting weeks
of work. And you know time you can improved by trying to cut weight and then get back into shape. So like for me, I want to be in shape all year round. So like that's how that's how this for me is. Really it's really all year round.
Man, I said, that's what it takes.
Bro.
Like if that's if that's what Joe vibe is, that's crazy work to me because I'm like, yo, I gotta get away, like I'm eating. I'm eating like that little fat here. Bro, Like I gotta eat eat well, We'll say well and come back.
I'm like every weekends, I'm eating good in the off season.
I will say that my Saturdays, I'm getting my cheap meal, I'm getting Chipotle for lunch. I'm gonna eat something for dinner. But like, besides that, you know that one day a.
Week cheating, none of the off season, like a month, man, like you know you know this off seat I went to. I went to Spain for two and a half months. Oh, I start working out tonight, like last month and a half. That first month I was there. I needed all of it, you know, big beat, a harmon, the big big steaks. What I need all of it. I was like, yo, run that twice. My kids are looking at me like Daddy's fluffy.
Yeah he is, damn right.
I worked hard to be fluffy. And then I'm gonnaet right. All right, three quick questions I get you out here, bro, I said, twenty five minutes. He gone over twenty five minutes. Yeah, hey, bro, what's your favorite cheap meal?
Favorite cheat meal?
Don't tell me what Chipotle gout? Come on, come on.
I was gonna say, that's just so easy for me to say it.
But I would say this and like this is my prison, like if I was in prison, Like they're like, you have one meal left? I'm gotting Chicken Fried's teag with mashed potatoes, cream cord gravy, all that like straight murders, murders.
Heya, favorite other edge rusher edge rusher to watch.
I'm gonna say, there's a lot of them.
That's what I say ta take take, take Jordans and you you're going t j Okay, yeah, okay, to a little what all right? And then now I'm not gonna do this to you.
Favorite teammate, favorite teammate I got.
I love them all, but I'm gonna have to say. I'm gonna say Devanteta, my god, we're like save my brother.
Okay, okay, last last question. Favorite tattoo when you're done, favorite tattooing you got. When I first met you, you had a little bit. Now you've got.
The I'm gonna say my daughter.
I got my daughter right here, So yeah, it's holding down for Ella, no question.
Absolutely appreciate you, Bro. You you you're a monster.
Bro.
You becoming a legend of the game, and like, keep on pushing, keep on pressing. I appreciate you tapping in with me.
Bro.
We'll text later, Bro, but I appreciate you for getting there.
Appreciate you bro your legend.
I think it's interesting you brought up twice now the last two weeks, the difference between defensive ends and edge rushers.
Because Jude's the edge guy can't put his hand on the ground like that.
Well, what's the difference. If there's a.
Grunt, that's what a defensive end is. If there's a sniper, that's what the outside linebacker is. They get the easier job, you know, Like if we talk about it, like even with Max, how we talked about a four I versus a six eye. If I'm a defensive end, I may be enclosed trapped between a guard and a tackle because I'm playing the inside of a tackle. I'm also gonna play the edge of this tackle, which means I could
be enclosed by the tight end. An edge guy like a T. J. Watt, You're never gonna see him inside of a tackle unless it's a quot unquote pass rushing. He's just shooting the gap. You're gonna see him on the edge of a nine, which is outside the outside the tight end head up, and rarely inside of Now, if he is on the edge again, he could be that on the open side of a tackle, but he's not doing dirty work. He's a finesse player. He's gonna swim, he's gonna shoot the gap, he's gonna do everything else.
Me defensive ends, you got a hold that gap. You gotta set the edge through the through a b gap. Sometimes you have to reset the line of scrimmage. Edges they're fun, they're they're diamonds. You find a diamond, you have a diamond. Defensive ends or like pearls, you gotta dive. You may die trying to be a defensive end. You know what I'm saying, Like you gotta you gotta work for. We might in fact, might not even be a pearl, might be an abaloney. You gotta free dive. You got
to dive in. Defensive ends are rare because you're if you're a defensive end, they cheat, try and shoot you as a dtackle And if you're you know, a d tackle, then you're not on the edge. Defensive ends are the defensive end more times than not. But now you have edge, an edge like an outside linebacker. He doesn't do what we do. They may drop more too, though, quote unquote zone drop drop off three. They have fun. I like
playing I like playing outside linebacker. It's it's fun. You know how much energy you save not playing outside linebacker when you're a jack or a will like I have got so much more in You know how much more energy it takes to split a double team of a tackling a guard versus a tight end and a tight end four hundred pound difference there. Excuse what you say I.
Was gonna say, is that like the new way for like outside line barkers, because like Micah Parsons is up the trend.
Now, No, because I mean before Micah, there is Shack Barrett before Shack like there's always going to be in an explosive edge Vaughn. Vaughn's the prototype of an edge because he's been doing it for thirteen years and hasn't lost a step. Typically, when when you see your edge guys lose a step, they're not the same anymore defensive ends they've always had that skill sets.
TJ's more a d N.
TJ is the epitome of an edge guy. There's a reason why the Steelers, Like Steelers have three sacks from TJ and then three hundred yards on the ground without Cam Hayward there like they ain't nobody ever been but We don't talk about it because your sexy stat is your sacks, your pressures. You know, that's the sexy stat, not a hold of no edge like they're shooting the gap, they're swimming underneath. They're not punishing an office alignment they have. We don't even have the same mentality.
A lot of the defensive stats don't.
No, it's just yeah, I mean it's our our lane is is collude, is colluded. It's tainted if you shall like you know, because it used to be your all pro defensive ends and then it became you know, that was doing defensive ends of defensive tackles. Fight like, yo, I'm a D tackle, but I move out to the five. That doesn't make me a detackle. I'm really or it doesn't make me d I'm just a D tackle. And then somewhere in there, it's like the outside linebackers became edge rushers.
So like, uh, DeMarcus where yeah he was a linebacker, but he was he was he was a rushing linebacker, correct, So how does he how does somebody like that quantify.
When more times than not he's got his hand in the ground, but he's got his hand in the ground older him bro now younger him outside linebacker, older him, more of a defensive end. You know, think about it, Think about it. I'm entering my annoying face. I'm about to get I'm about to get tired. All right, we're gonna wrap it up. Thank you for tuning in Off the Edge with Cam Jordan go Ham, Cam, Cam Jay Killer Cam. There's a lot of you know, nicknames out
in the football world about me. Probably not, but I just made those up. I just want to appreciate you guys tuning in, and you know, maybe ask you guys to spread the word about this wonderful podcast. My people's putting this together. Give us a five star rating, leave a review, follow us on Apple podcast, iHeartRadio app wherever you get your podcasts. I appreciate you guys so much for tuning in Off the Edge with Cam. Thank you. I'm out.
I'm tired.
I gotta go try to win.
We're gone.
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