The Season with Peter Schrager: Vikings GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah

The Season with Peter Schrager is a production of the NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. What's Up, Everybody, Welcome to another episode of the Season with Peter Schregar. We were officially in the off season. This is the off season, yet NFL news is everywhere, you know. Friday, on Good Morning Football, we announced that Dalvin Cook was officially going to be released by the Minnesota Vikings. And it didn't send shock waves, you know, through fans of the NFL.

Yeah, and then also Zeke got cut Mason was like on the bubble he might have been cut at you know, there's all this talk with him. I mean think one of our earlier episodes in the offseason, we were parsing through the words of the head of player personnel, who was like, as of right now, he is on our roster.

Yeah. So my message there is the market and we're going to have a guest on who just had to make a really tough decision. We're going to bring it on. It's quasi at Dolfo Mensa, who is the general manager of the Minnesota Vikings. I don't want to press him so much on the contract, and I don't want press them so much on current events because really my goal with this stuff, and we'll do it, but my goal with this podcast, as you know, Aaron, is let's get

I don't.

I have you ever picked up a club?

I've been to the driving range, like once or twice with some friends.

Yeah. I had never picked up a club until last year. My wife said, you know what, like your friends all play golf. For my birthday, she bought me golf lessons. She got me ten lessons. It was really generous. I went to two of them, and I think they expire like I just I kind of said. Then my friend, while we were all from Good Morning Football, invited me out to play golf, and he was like, I got to spare a thing of clubs. Just come and enjoy

I think it'd be tough if you follow any sports media this weekend you had to see the highlights. I mean I followed nothing related to golf, and I saw it so many times, So yes, I saw it.

It was amazing. I also watched the Tonys. Did you catch the Tony's at all?

I watched parts so a friend of mine won a Tony last night. Actually, who's your friend?

I watched it all.

Alex Newell?

Alex Newell, who was inside from shocked Shocked? Okay, one best actor? Right? Yeah? Okay, awesome speech speechless throughout and I haven't seen shocked. You saw shucked?

I actually have not seen it?

Great friend.

Yeah, yeah, we were in the midst of getting Yeah, we were trying to figure out when to see it.

Yeah, we were gonna get tickets. Let me take something about this Shucked, because I like the Broadway shows. I see ads for it all over the subways, and I'm like, I don't know what this is, uh, and I'll maybe see it, But like I'd obviously seen ads for Parade and some like it hot and New York, New York and all these different things. And then Shuck did well, and then that Kimberly.

Akimbo Kimberly Akimbo also did very well.

Yeah.

I enjoy the Tonys and I think it was cool to see Aaron Rodgers in the third row with CJ. Yeah, CJ I think produced a play. He's in the theater like he helped like fund one of the plays. So Aaron Rodgers was there with him, and to pick up where we were last week with with Hanka's area, like Rogers just playing the New York pr playbook to it, like to have the wherewithal to know like I've got practice tomorrow. But the Tony's is like a very New York thing and like a very affected New York event,

Shreg's always good to see you man, Thanks for having me.

Oh, it is so good having you on. You know, this podcast is more evergreen. As I always tell my guests, it's not about currents. What my hope is that two years down the line, someone listens to this podcast and it's like I got a lot out of that interview and I got a lot of that conversation, but I would be remiss just to give you an opportunity to speak on what happened in the last seventy two hours. Obviously, you guys, with a lot of speculation going into it,

Yeah, you know, it's a part of the job. These are all really tough decisions. You talk about Dalvin Cook a franchise pillar, incredibly productive over his time here, and I'm glad I got to see that up close last year. A guy who wants the ball, wants to help his team win, can do it from all levels of offensive play.

Just a talented player. His teammates love them.

And again, these are really hard decisions we have to make, but they give us constraints in the NFL, and you're always trying to build towards that ultimate goal, and sometimes these decisions are the ones you have to make.

They get made with a lot of care and thought.

Because obviously you're dealing with people, but also just ring of honor type players, which Dalvin Cook is. And again these aren't easy, no doubt in my mind. But ultimately we made the decision and we wish them the best, and obviously we'll always be fans of his here in Minnesota.

That's cool. Yeah, you guys are very classy with some of the statements we saw from ownership and from you and from Kevin. And I think you know whether or not the wound is sore right now, when time will

Yeah, you know, I'm not sure I know how this all all happened and got here, but I will say that that guy in the van who goes and scouts to small school, that guy is important. That guy's valuable, and it's you know, this job has really evolved over time. You know, we do media, we do contracts, we do you have to oversee an organization or really you know, a really profitable organization.

So I think my skill.

Sets have kind of aided in the new NFL, the new definition of the job versus kind of what it was before. But you know, going back to my undergraduate experience, you know, it was great. Honestly, I was just a kid in South Jersey immigrant parents, you know, grew up in my family's from Ghana, West Africa. So super proud of that and how that all impacted my life. But went to Princeton, you know, I thought I was a cool kid and I was going to go study with

From did you play ball in high school?

So I actually got cut from the basketball team my sophomore year. Really really tragic story. If you want to talk about over.

What is it Cherry Hill South? What was it called? What was the school?

Cherry Hilly?

Cherry Lee's Cougar's shout out to all my people out back there, love so much love for my time growing up. But yeah, you know I was a cerebral point guard. I had handles, but I wasn't very quick. I hadn't really grown into grown into my body just yet. There was some better players they thought were available. But ultimately, you know, you're never gonna agree with those decisions. Everybody's

How do you get over that trade that you lost money on? How do you move on to the next one? And process and things.

Like that, like a cornerback.

Yeah, it's no doubt, no doubt.

And so that's really what what led me to, you know, studying at Princeton and major in economics and all that good stuff. Really got interested in behavioral economics and how decision making and human emotion really are interact together, which took me to Wall Street where I intern on a commodities desk trading gold and silver. The summer after my junior year, got to live in New York down on Water Street and do that experience. As you know, as we talk about in New York all the time, my

Left in me.

I still want to apply and practice my my my knowledge and industry. Was really interested in sports, and you know, wanted to seek out an opportunity. Obviously, the forty nine ers, it was fortunate they were happening to be looking for somebody to advance their efforts. Brian Hampton and Prague mart I got connected with them at the MIT Sports Analytics Conference, and rest is what they say, is history.

So wait, so you go to Sloan in what like twenty twelve, twenty.

Thirteen, twenty twelve, twenty twelve, twelve, and you're just.

A Stanford graduate student who has a Wall Street career, and you're like, look, I'm doing this, but I want to get into sports. I'm willing to sacrifice everything to give it a shot. I'm assuming your entry level pay was not what it was on Wall Street.

No, no, no, no, I tell you know.

So I showed up to that conference where my white Stanford polo, you know, not knowing anything. And what was cool about that conference is you just got to meet a lot of great people. I mean I got to I remember, got to go up to the Kiki Vandawaye people that I had like learned RC Buford. Was there just a lot of talented people were in one place, and I wasn't there really looking for a job. I was just there to like kind of learn about sports. Had

Yeah, and Dave Jacoby sure, yeah.

Yeah, and so and then obviously I met with the forty nine ers and they said, hey, let's talk when we get back, and that's what we did.

And obviously, you know, things worked out for us in the end.

You mentioned you grew seven inches in college, so you come in there not as an athlete, but as a student. So you get into Princeton and then you grow seven inches, I have to think. You know, someone on campus is like, have you considered ball? If you played at least at any level.

You'd be surprised.

You walk around Princeton every there's a lot of six or three guys walking aroun around. There's a really yeah, a lot of a lot of people play sports there, whether it be waterpole of eyepall, whatever it is.

And I was friends with all those those people.

But there's a lot of athletic people walking around that campus, so they weren't necessarily looking for me. But I you know, I showed up to practice that first day and my little Kobe Hafro.

You know, I was the Jadwin Jim where yah.

Yeah, Jadwind Jim.

You know, I put put my summer in, uh you know, all those two day workouts with my friends, and you know, obviously I was good enough to you know, play on the JV team and do some practicing and all that good stuff. And you know, again, super cool because the fifteen year old of me that you know that never got off that floor got cut. You know, got to see that dream fulfilled in a small way, and that's something I always take with me.

And that's awesome mentors. I feel like, if you go to Princeton or you go to Stanford, you've got the leaders in thought and you've got the leaders in you know, leadership. Especially let's go to Stanford. When I talk about Stanford football to a lot of people, it's it's often not hey,

You know.

It's one of those things that I probably and I don't really live a life with regrets. If I could have pushed myself a little bit would have been more. If I could tell any kid to come after me seek out those relationships, I kind of let them happen by chance, I happen to take a class with Daniel Connoman. I happen to take a class with Burton Malcolm, who's

Was there, Is that right? You know what I mean?

Like, you know, and I have to you know, I wish i'd maybe got and coffee with her or whatever something like that. So to everybody who comes after me, please make sure you seek out those relationships when you have access to them.

Yeah, okay, So you get to the Niners. You're back in the Bay after some time in New York. How did you apply your Wall Street skills? And we did, and then try to integrate that into what at the time, I know the Niners are always forward thinking, but also at the time, like football is kind of meeting potatoes as well.

Yeah, that was probably the biggest challenge, you know.

I got there after they had won three NFC championships in a row, been to a Super Bowl.

I got there right after they had lost the Super Bowl.

So I'm not going there thinking I'm helping them, right, I mean, they seem to have it pretty figured out by them. So I really took it at just I'm here to learn. I'm going to show them my thought process and how that works. And really, I think a lot of times in the analytics world, people are it's almost like a project where you're studying things.

And that's good.

You want to study things, but you also got to make decisions and decisions to have ramifications. They have good things that happen, bad things that happen. You have to be able to quantify them and really understand them before you make a decision. So that was I would say my best value add was really coming from a practical decision making standpoint and saying, hey, I know this is what the model on the analysis says, but I've done that. I've lost a million dollars and ten minutes. I know

That's very different.

And so I think that was the thing they appreciate out of me, appreciated about me the most. And then second, I didn't know anything. You know, I'm here because I didn't know anything.

Humility, right, I just well, it was easy because.

I actually didn't know anything, right, so I could go into an office and ask, hey, hey, Cipho, tell me about the run game. Tell me everything you need to know, because I'm not insecure about that because I don't think I'm.

Supposed to know.

And he doesn't mind teaching me because I've helped him with some other thing.

And so just so many relationships I've built.

And I was just talking to our scouting associates who just got here to start, and.

I was like, jes, be curious.

If you can do one thing, be curious, just ask questions, because I'm telling you, I'd satin rooms with people who have been in the NFL for twenty years who never asked that question. And I'm like, well, I know that, and I've only been in the league ten years because I because I wasn't scared to ask, and I don't, I don't. I don't think they're a dumb question. So that was really the best thing that helped me get here.

What was your life like in New York City when you were a wellser You said you interned and then you took a job. So you don't have to name the companies or you can. But I see just on the website says day trader like, I could be a million things. So take us through your day to day as a young twenty three year old quacy like, because I'll tell you what you and I have talked about it. I did my twenties in New York different deal. I

No doubt, man, I had similar paths. I lived with five, five and then six guys in a lofty six guys.

Man.

We still we still have a text group called Hotness because that's what we because that's what we.

Called our place. I love those guys of Death, the Brothers. Am I where it was?

The place Water Street?

Is that where you living? No? No, that place was dirtieth in Madison, Okay.

Murray Hill.

Part of it. You're at Bank Cafe every day.

Let's go Bank Cafe.

We had a little deli, miscase deli downstairs. I don't know how clean it was, but we ate there a lot. No, man, I smile so much because that time of my life was just such a blessing. Living in New York City is something that will always just be grateful that I got to do all the experiences. You know, you go out in New York City on a Friday night with your wallet and your cell phone and anything could happen.

It feels like anything happened. Anything it happened.

But you also meet anyone and everyone from all different backgrounds, and we joke about it like, oh it was crazy wild times. But gosh, I'm raising my kid in New York City. I think it's a pretty cool cultural experience.

It's it's incredible, man.

It's you know, you're in your Friday night New York is very different than your Tuesday afternoon New York.

Right there's different people's different vibes.

Just again, such a blessing, but you know, connecting that to the work side of it, Yeah, we worked really hard to getting the trade is an edge that I just I'm so fortunate for I feel like the world has become so dug in on what they think and for me, I got to go make decisions and be wrong and be right, but also be wrong and have somebody really smart take the other side of my view and have to think about that and being like, hey, I think I'm smart, but this person's really smart and

It's you know, donut.

It's a term we used to use on Wall Street to a friend of mine made up where you don't want to.

Obviously, a donut's a bad thing.

So I'm trying to teach people to obviously not be a donut, and I do it with some of our players. And I think all this stuff and finance is learnable. It's really applicable to every aspect of your life. And so I'm passionate about giving back to other people.

Yeah, you know, you said you went to the sloan comment. Sorry if I'm fixated on this area of your life. But so many listeners of this podcast are on the treadmill right now. They're traveling, they're on a plane and they're flying to another sales convention, or they're working out because they've got to get to the office by sen And if I only had the opportunity to and like, we know it's a giant leap, but you made the leap. Was there a morning where you woke up or like

Yeah, it was.

It was a longer decision I just and I as much as I loved Wall Street, I just didn't want not to be morbid. I always think about what do you want your tombstone to read? You know, how do you want it to read? And I didn't want that to be the sole thing that was on there. Not not that it was a bad thing, but just I wanted more in my life, and so, you know, I think I always wanted to pivot at some point to do something different, and obviously football just you came calling.

I think I did the math.

It was like one twentieth of what I right, right, one twentieth one twentieth right, So with.

No guarantee that there's a huge upside.

No guarantee right, it's crazy.

My boss who wrote my recommendation for Stanford, you know, when I got in and I was leaving, he's like, so you're really going, like, I don't think you ever believed me.

I would be as a friend. I would have been asking you the same thing.

And you know, obviously we're all glad that it worked out here, But there were a lot of days where I was like, what did I do? You know, there's certainly I'm not going to sit here and tell you it was this easy, you know, easy path. I went from you know, money not being a big variable in my life to hey, maybe hey, what's that cup on?

What's that? What's that?

Ms? Not terrible for Tuesday night?

Yeah, and so you know, but I'm again, I'm so fortunate to have had that experience and grown from it.

I was.

I took it as a challenge. How do I how do I humble myself? How do I changed my life to accomplish my goals? And I'm glad I did it.

I said the moneyball thing because I think when you got hired, that was thrown around a lot, and I kind of cringe because I'm like, he's more than that. Obviously, he's had a decade of experience in the NFL. He obviously scouts players like they go from Trent Balki to John Lynch. There's also a new leadership. How do you kind of integrate yourself into a new GM and try to sell yourself again and say here's what I bring, here's the value. I know Lynch is one of the greatest,

One hundred percent. I got to give a lot of credit to Jail.

Jail's one of the most open minded, collaborative people I've ever met, and so a lot of that was just him wanting a lot of smart people in the room and he's like, Hey, if this guy's smart, I want to use him. And so, honestly, randomly, I had met Jail my second week on the job. He was doing TV a preseason game and they had asked me to go spot You know what spotting is?

Yes, yeah, I didn't know what it was.

So you were the spotter, like, hey, the third lineman on a spotter for the listeners at home. It's basically you're helping broadcast crew when they don't know all the players. You're pointing out who is and you're handing information and notes. So in a preseason game, when there's seventy five guys out there, you're the one who's kind of helping out the broadcaster saying and usually these guys are volunteers, but you were doing it as an employee of the team.

Right, So they asked me to do it.

And I get there and Jail and Burke Carter there and I'm honest, I'm like, hey, I have no idea what I'm doing, and they're just and they called somebody it right away.

Jail's like, hey, man, I love you, but we're going to go with somebody else.

And so I love so the first day on the job that we kind of rehashed and laughed about that storage. But yeah, So I met Jail, and obviously I hadent a lot of research to help with the hiring process and just talking about the great organizations what they have and they have alignment and people with no ego and collaborative and different things like that. And Jail was the living,

Who you know? And it was a trader.

It was a trader that I, you know, one of my trading you know people that I looked up to when I was in that industry, So he.

Was that trader. I love getting the credit here in the names.

Paul Tutor Jones. He's one of the best best there is.

I read about him in a book called Market Wizards, and that was actually when I started to change my mind frame and trading and really started to understand what that business was. And so to have that quote be a thing that me and him were able to connect on, it's just you talk about life being just this fortunate circle.

I'm just so happy that we had that relationship.

All right, and not to a pinpoint what you did for the forty nine ers. But before we move on to your next stage in your career, let's just say the Niners we know so smart with compensatory picks, always loading up with things that you wouldn't expect. Also great

So that was the first year they got there.

So I wasn't as involved in drafting business I was, but I did things. I did models, a lot of models that would take information like their on field production or their combine and kind of give a number that says, hey, this is pretty good. This is actually better than everybody's talked about. So they had all my model grades, and our models liked him a little bit better than the consensus.

But I said this at my opening press conference. I didn't.

I didn't say George Kiddo would be the you know, one of the best tight ends that ever play this game. I'm not going to sit here and try and take that credit. But on the margins, it did like him a little bit better than you know, some other sources did.

Sure. All right, so you have this great success with San Francisco, you know, all the way to a super Bowl. Then you go to Cleveland. Do you join Andrew Berry in Cleveland? Another IVY League guy from a different school. Of course, he's a Harvard Man. How do you make that jump to Cleveland? And why did you make that jump?

That's a blessing, you know. I met Andrew in an elevator bank at the combine.

Yeah, decidedly.

Yeah, completely random.

And I had heard about him, and I guess in hindsight he had maybe heard a couple of things about me. But you know, we just started a relationship pad dinner. You got a network. You got to meet people. You never know when their opportunity would come. And I had dinner with him in about five minutes. I was like, Oh, this guy's gonna be a GM. You know, it's if you've met Andrew Bert before, you would know that brilliant, brilliant kid, just down to earth, great human, great family.

Let's go through the news. Because Rand Carthon's now at GM with Tennessee John Lynch Parague is now going to own leads. I think I think that's about happening yourself. Who else we got, like, who are there other? Brian Hampton really well regarded.

Brian Hampton, Ethan Wallas now assistant GM, and Jacksonville, Adam Peters. Adam Peters is a stud So you're just talking about a lot of people, And look, I wanted that next step of my career I wanted to grow. There's certain rooms and conversations I wanted to see and be a part of. And sometimes you have to leave in your career to go take that opportunity. But that doesn't mean there's not a ton of love and respect and admimation for the people I work with in San Francisco.

So you go to Cleveland and then the Minnesota GM job opens up. You interviewed for Chicago as well.

I want to say, yes, I did.

How do you prep for a general manager position? In those interviews and Minnesota specifically, what did you hone in on and really try to get that job because it's one of the obviously crown jewel franchises in the NFL.

You know, for a GM job, it's really you have great mentors that help you. So Andrew Barry was one of my best sources. I joke with him, I think I owed him a commission just for getting all the preparation.

You know. Really, when I first got there, he said, way, you're going to be a jam one day.

And I wasn't even sure at that point that I should be a VP of ops, you know, and he was pushing me, Hey, if you're making decisions.

What would you do? What would you do?

And so really I had a book and a really an approach and a thought process built over two years. So I was ready when I got to those positions because of him. And then people like Charlie Cashley, who you know, is really helpful. He reached out to me, somebody I just texted with the other day, just kind of taught me about, you know, how things go, how different buildings, the history of the game and all different things.

I got to the final round and I got nervous.

I was like, well, I got to try and act like what I think an investment banker is going to be like, and I didn't get the job.

I got.

Getting get the job is the only interview, at least in that cycle that I didn't get the job. When I got to the fine around and I told myself, if you're going to go out, just be you. Yeah, if that's not good enough, that's okay, but just be yourself. And I took that and obviously was that in the interview process. And look, I'm a little different. You know, I'm gonna say words and in a football interview that other people aren't going to say. But I'm going to say,

Building, culture, vision, all those things.

And Minnesota immediately impressed me with how they sought out those things.

So it was just a match.

And I know they tell the story of how I came skipping down the stairs from my office to my wife, But it really was I was so invigorated by by that because those are the things that I had prepared for. That's what I think is important in the job. Look, I'm going to hire smarter analytics people than me. I'm going to hire better scouts. To me, that's the point. I've got to just know enough to be dangerous, to be able to manage them, lead and combine all the

Were looking for.

And then to your point, the ownership group, I mean, the Wolfs are just they're incredible people.

I think it's not to cut you off. I think it's the best facility in the NFL. I would say question. I think the NFLPA survey said a lot. When you have a plus across the board for the way people are treated and the will family. They're relatively new owners

The job, no question and no question.

And look at these jounts are so rare though, So it's not like I was sitting there saying, you know, let me hold out for the crown Jewel type of Minnesota. But you know, good fortune had it that they liked what I was putting down, and I obviously loved the organization that I came to.

All Right, so you get there. Last year, you guys win thirteen games, You win I think eleven games like in the by one score, like I would have to imagine that maybe you didn't. Maybe we were like, we're gonna win Suer Bowl in your one. But that's at the bar pretty high for year two and beyond, what was your one? Like with Kevin O'Connell.

That that was incredible. You know, I can't believe we've gotten this far without talking about Ko. But you know, he's just my po he's my partner in crime.

Did you guys have a good relationship in San France?

We met, we had lunches together because he's just such a great guy.

And I remember the man. But it was a chip right, it was chippy day and Kevin O'Connell. They had all these young guys.

Yeah, and he had this weird title like special Projects or something like that. So we joke I was the R and D analyst and he was specially or Projects. And now we're head coaching GM together. But we had lunch together a few times. And I remember, again, like I said, I picked people's brain when I get to talk to him.

So I asked him about quarterback play.

And so when the wils asked me about him after my first interview, I was like, oh, you know, I haven't stay in touch with him, but he used to tell me the smartest thing about quarterbacks and I just kind of left, could not think of anything of it, you know. And obviously then I get to the GM job and I know that they think they're in high regard with him, and I watched the interview and I

I just got to do my part of the equation and handle the business.

But you know, last year was incredible, you know, and obviously it's set a high bar and you don't know, you can't when.

People say exceed expectations.

In the NFL, there's just the margins are so thin, so thin, right, you know, And so I think you can generally say, hey, I think we're a playoff team, or we're a team that should be Final four good or maybe bottom third good, but you don't really know specifically, As you said, thirteen or eleven to one score games for them go differently, the records different I understand that.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you I don't.

But you can set yourself up to succeed with a team that you think should be a playoff team, and we did.

We thought we had a good team.

With the culture, real building, the veteran leadership that we had, we were really and ultimately that's what I think Carrie the day in those eleven to one score games, right, veteran leadership. And this year we're taking the bet that those young players that were on the roster that saw those games, now, hey, this.

Is the standard.

This is how the Minnesota Vikings show up and show out, and so that's what we're thinking, little Carrie us this year.

It's an interesting second season because you have the benefit of the doubt now after year one, but there are some popular guys. I think Adam Thielan is a beloved guy. Dalvin Cook was a beloved guy. You see their jerseys in the stands. But you made tough decisions. When you make those tough decisions, and then do you read the

I got to Sapy, I don't know that you have benefit of the doubt in this business. I think it's as surely urgent business. The second that season ended, I went back to, you know, not make not knowing what I'm doing, and that's I respect that, that's that is the job. I'm one of those gms. He doesn't read it. Pretty private person. So one of the one of the hardest parts about this job for me is that, you know, I people say my name or anything like that. That's

Really quick, a couple quick hitters, and then we'll let you go because this has been really informative and we've got to know you at a different level than just transaction.

X y Z.

Here's how it was done. Your greatest mentor of your career, who you would point to and say this is the person I take leadership lessons from would be.

Who oh man, come on, it's like name of my top five rappers. Man, I'm going to hurt somebody if I leave them out. Yeah, I got a name, one.

Name, two or three. Let me hear the names. I love this.

Stuff, all right, Okay, I'm going to go Andrew Berry. Obviously, I think he's a superhuman. I don't sometimes don't know if there's anybody more qualified to do this job than him. John Lynch, just the genuineness with which he conducts business, open mind.

It is like all the stuff I talk about. Just really a hero of mine.

And then if I can give you like an off one, yeah, you know, outside of football, My mom my hero.

You know.

I think she's an incredible person. She taught me how to lead her way. Her way was demanding process. She always demanded that I tried hard. It was never what happened at the end of the result. It was hey, well what did you put into it? Can you get better next time? Her emotional just compassion for people, and that's how I try and lead. I need people to know that I care about him a lot, and that's something that's big with Kevin.

So I'd be remiss to not mention her as well.

I love it. The unsung member of the Minnesota Vikings roster that people might not talk enough about that you guys look at and You're like, that guy's a core pillar to what we're doing.

Josh man Tellis, Josh man Tellis, I think he's a guy go on talk.

Because I hear that name. I'm like, I don't see you know, Okay.

Yeah, yeah, he's a safety and he'll play some more this year, so I think you'll see the stuff that we've seen before that. But he was a special teams just stalwart last year, team captain type. You know, I was in the team meeting room when later in the season, after somebody got hurt, he was giving team captain and you could feel when somebody's teammates really love them, really appreciate them, and really want to follow them into battle.

And he's one of those guys. He's somebody.

He's everything that the Minnesota Vikings are about, and I think the fans and people are going to really appreciate that more this season.

Kirk Cousins' best quality is what.

He can make every throw. His arm talent, he's he's accurate, he can hit every level throw. The decision making is really solid. The game of football is you hold that ball, that beautiful ball that means everything, and you got to make sure that you take care of it. You don't give it to the other team, and you take chances

Your top three rappers are.

Whom well, okay, I came up in that era. Notorious, Notorious, that's my guy. You know, I'm an East Coast guy and just loved him, everything about him.

His flow.

See, I would think Philly, I would immediately go to these Philly rappers, but you're a South Jersey guy.

I'm a South Jersey guy.

Yeah, yeah, I mean you're talking about all time, right, this is all time, all time.

I gotta go him. You know, I'm a huge jay Z fan, yep.

Just you know his style, his charisma, his lyrics, his ability to talk about things just in different ways. And then you talk about what he's become as a mogul, different areas of his life. Just an incredible and I don't know that I'm allowed to say this person anymore just because of how it's become.

But I was a big Kanye fan.

I think there his music is still genius.

He's a genius, right, I think he's an unbelievable creative. You know, just somebody I've always been impressed with. I think what something I love about musicians is their ability to elicit feelings listen, you know, create feelings for other people. And he's somebody just I can think back to very vivid memories in my life, happy, sad, elated, whatever it is. And there's a Kanye song that kind of will play in the background to it.

And then my last one. Your message to Vikings fans about this twenty twenty three team and what you guys hope to do moving forward.

Yeah, you know, I think it's a little bit of unknowns, right. You've moved on for some of the players that you've come to know and love, and we've got to take a chance together to really appreciate and embrace these young players. But you know, they've been on this team, they're learning this culture. We're really excited about what we are. We're younger, you know, we're fast, we're hungry. We've got two great

We didn't even mention justin Jefferson's name, we didn't mention Howkinson's name. Like, there's so many guys we can go through here, but real quick, the first round pick Addison, who we haven't seen in an NFL field yet, you scattered him obviously. I love I love him coming out. We're gonna draft you, We're gonna get paid, and you're like, g You're like, well, we're gonna pay you what you're paid,

And it's so funny that that was the interaction people saw. He is he is so quiet, works his butt off, U super cerebral studies as plays.

Because I feel like it was a natural thing to say. He didn't mean like financially, we're gonna get you say.

I say to everybody, if if they've just achieved their childhood dream, what comes out of their mouth might not be what they think comes out of their mouth.

And so but now he's incredible.

You talk about an elite separator off the line of scrimmage, he just he just understands body feel, leverage, how to separate, get open from guys.

Really good hands, good after the catch up.

We're really excited to have them, and we're gonna make teams think about what they want to do to us on the offense side of the football. With that alien Justinett Jefferson and the TJ and then Jordan and then kJ and the run game, we're gonna get going. It's just we got we got a lot of options so we can we can stress defenses, and we're really excited about what we're going to be doing on that side of the ball.

You got things to do. I appreciate you so much for taking the time and in another interview we'll talk about the backdoor pass and what it means to Princeton basketball and why do you have to execute it and why Pete Carmody was just as good as Pete curlew okay, Pete Carmony or Bill Carmondy. What was his car?

Bill?

Bill Cardy? I loved Princeton basketball and Crazy loved our time together. Dude, thank you so much for taking all this time, especially where there's mandatory mini camps and you're not sitting on the beach. We really appreciate it.

Shrake's always a pleasure man.

Crazy's unbelievable. I just think he's really authentic and he is who he is, and he's made really tough decisions and Aaron, you're listening to him. I kind of. I didn't mean to dismiss the other types of gms who are lifetime scouts, but like, his background is not a linear Hey, you do this. You work in an organization for fifteen years as the VP of personnel, You scout the Southeast region, you scout the Southwest region. You eventually go to college and do I don't know what you think.

I loved him. I mean, I love anyone who's in a high position who's also like I am, not like worried about what I don't know. I will go and ask someone I'm not going to be self conscious about saying I don't get the run scheme. Tell me about the run game and learning from those people who know it, and then like making decisions with that. So I love I love his whole vibe. I was texting my Vikings friends throughout. I was like, we've got this Guy's amazing. You guys should be very happy.

I'll tell you though, it's funny because there's a humility in there, and he could be arrogant, he could be a know it all. He could come off that way because when you start mentioning Princeton and Stanford and the word analytics in the NFL, people are very quickly turned off and say, oh, here we go. Here comes the nerd in the room or the know it all in the room. But his humility is so disarming that he says, I just want to learn and I want to be the best I can be and help others. And it's

Yeah, you know, he was great about talking about how difficult some of the roster decisions are. But he seemed so thoughtful about it too. I don't know not to just like kiss up to him, but I thought he was great.

I know. Yeah, very quick transition, yet one of the most startling left turns we can do, from talking football with Quasi Adofo Mensa to something you told Jason English and I Jason, of course our iHeart partner. Here we were in between transitions and you were talking about the Tonys and he said that you have a love for theater as well, and in passing, I said, you know Leah Michelle, she performed, but she wasn't nominated, and you went through the rules that she wasn't eligible because she

Alex Knewell who won last night. I know Alex because the two of us auditioned together for Glee, and go on.

I've known you for a year. I know you tried out for Glee.

It was, you know, a different iteration of my life, but specifically for the Glee Project, which was like the feeding program into Glee and I was living in Houston at the time. I think sent in like a video.

On how old high school college?

Well, no, no, no, this was post college.

I was post college, like I'm going to try out for the show Glee or the Glee.

Prop early twenties, early twenties. Yeah. I remember like texting some of my friends and I was like, could I pass as like a high school student? And they're like, yes, like you could pass as a high school student now, like you know, so auditioned made it through. However, many rounds. They flew us out to LA and one of the first people I met was Alex, and like immediately hit it off with Alex. Was blown away by how incredible Alex's voice was, like from this is I don't know

And Alex goes on to get cast it in Glee. You do not, And then now Alex wins best lead in a musical for the role in Shucked.

Yes, Shucked.

Are you close enough with Alex where you would text Alex this morning and be like, no.

Not texting me this morning, not texting this morning, but like, you know, we've seen each other in New York, and I've seen Alex perform other shows. But yeah, I'm not like last night. I'm not running to my phone to text Alex kind of thing. But yeah, no, Alex is absolutely incredible. I mean, they're probably like five or six vocalists that I've worked with in my life where I'm like, I sing and I don't understand what you're doing.

Who are the other vocalists? Give me? I just put on Kosi on and he gave me. Not gonna say stock answers, but you couldn't get wrong saying Bigie, jay Z and Kanye First, the ones that you've seen in person, and then your greatest vocalist in the history. Do you go, Jay, Selene, do you go Luther Van Dross, may a woman, you go? Anywhere you want. Let's start with the ones that you've seen in person.

Seen and worked with. Alex is probably number one. There's an opera singer I worked with in Houston named Kenneth Gale who performed here at Carnegie Hall maybe two or three months ago. I went and got to see Ken perform. Ken is like just the most powerful voice. That long story to this, but the short version is I was once on a yacht, like in the middle of the ocean as Ken is performing Nesting Dorma and like on the deck of the boat and it's amazing. And then yeah, yeah,

I loved Kelly in the sing movies. Yes Yeah, beautiful voice in those films.

There's a video of her on YouTube performing pyt by Michael Jackson, and she has this vocal lick.

I want to say Tory was one of the original Scooter Braun finds too right, Like didn't Scooter find Toy and help bring.

Her to fame okay on YouTube? And she's just like sitting there, like playing guitar and singing. And I've worked with other people who've worked with her. I think her voice is unbelievable. There's another current one. Her name's Nao. I think it's now. I don't know the actual pronunciation. Her voice does like these octave jumps that are ough incredible, and then like I have to go with like Nina

It's just those are not stock answers. You could have very easily, said Mariah Whitney Celine Dion, and you know, here we go. I'm gonna go, Barry Manilo, Luther Vandross whoever you know you want to go. I appreciate those answers. This is the most cultured podcast we've ever done. I love this. I love this because I'm a geek for it. Look, I always say this and my wife and I we try to do it as often as possible. We live

You mentioned them like la week. Do you know that? I didn't know them? So I looked them up after that. I like, yeah, didn't know them beforehand.

I'm really rooting for them. They are two twin brothers. They're twenty nine years old. They're from Omaha, Nebraska. They played trombone and trumpet and I got to know what the charity thing last week for Big Slick. They couldn't be greater young men, and like they're really good. And I went on YouTube and on Spotify and it's all originals and that's cool. But what they did at the Big Slick was they played Benny and the Jets and

Yeah.

Yeah, and one of the great things too, like obviously not everyone can afford to go see a Broadway show. There's so many off Broadway shows, or you can like go see Broadway performers at fifty four below, Like I've seen Broadway stars do these small like cabaret style performances, which is like.

Another way Sherry Lane Theater.

Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.

Unless Etharge and I have become friendly because of her Chief's fandom, and she shows up on the Tony's Last Night like presenting and I'm like, geez, Melissa, so I direct messaged her. I'm like, so great seeing you. She's got a Broadway show called I Think My Window or Come to My Window coming out in September, and it's based on all her book, her song, her soundtracks, all that stuff, and it was off Broadway, and I'm like, that's how it goes, like do you good enough? Off Broadway?

Like this is not a new show by any means, but I'd be remiss if we left the episode and I didn't mention these two names. Three names really Hadestown, which I've seen multiple times now I've lucked out and saw it.

I haven't seen it, you know, I was supposed to see it then then COVID happened and we never went and saw it. But what a Hadestown is supposed to be unbelievable.

It is amazing. I mean, like there's no shortage of people on the Internet talking about how great it is. I saw it in previews, so I saw the original cast. Amber Gray is like one of the most unique voices. She's no longer with the show. She's She's done a couple of things post Evan Noble Zada who originated the role. Actually I don't know if she originated, but she originated

So haitistown one. What are the other two shows? If you're not a New Yorker and you're in town and you're like, you're not a theater person, but you want to see what are the other two suggestions?

I mean, I love six. I don't know if you've seen six.

My wife loved it. I didn't see it's supposed to be.

I think it is incredible. Yeah. And then my number three right now, I mean shucked, even though I haven't seen it, I guess my number three. My number three would be like what can you get tickets to? Yeah, and just like surprise yourself with because there are a ton of things, like I said, off Broadway in Brooklyn like that, you never know what it's going to be.

Like Yeah, like that Bruce, that Sydney Bluestein's window. You get to see Oscar Isaac and he's like baring his soul and it's like, you know, it's for forty bucks, fifty bucks in person you're watching, you know. The other one was I don't know the name of it, of fans it was at a time, but like Judy Coomer is like just a woven show and you're like, gosh, he's the US at their craft and they're doing it. So I don't know.

I think there was a stretch where Bam had like Oscar Isaac and then like a month later James McAvoy and I mean, just like doing Shakespeare.

They had Bobby conna Olli and rose Byrne together doing something. So anyway, this is the most amazing podcast we've ever done, and that we have probably a bunch of listeners who came in to listen to Kirk Cousin contract analysis, didn't get it from our interview with Quaycy. And then we're ending with talk about Hadestown and trying out for Glee. Aaron, That's why we do it. I get to know you more and more every single time we do this. Hopefully you respect my bona fides as we talk Broadway. Can