The History of the NFL International Series with Austin Ekeler and Damani Leech

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work marketplace. Empower your business and hire the world's most in demand developers, designers, project managers and more at www dot up work dot com. Welcome to NFL Explaining. I'm like, yeam, she's a D Kikawalla. Hi. Everyone who is going international with us today? A D D All right, we are We're definitely hitting our group here. It's episode number six. Fans all over the world, and I'm not saying that just to say, hey, we've got fans listening all over

the world. There's actually metrics that tracked this stuff, and apparently we're big in London. I think my next time going to the airport, I'm going to say international and book that trip out there. So seriously, thank you so much to everyone who's been listening. And A d D. I actually got a message from Page in Australia who loves the show. Hit me up also a Mets fan in Australia. That's what I said, and she gave me the great story to why that is, which I won't

board people with. But a shout out to our international fans because today we are breaking down the history of NFL's international matchups and most fans probably a little familiar with the London series. A d D. I know you are for a lot of reasons, especially because you've been to some of those games. But we've got jetson Falcons coming up this week, we got Dolphins Jags in a couple of weeks, both of those games Tottenham Hotspur Stadium.

I think about those matchups Jets and Falcons, by the way, playing in their third international matchups, the Dolphins playing in their six international game, and the Jags playing in their eighth international game. A dit you've covered these matchups. The first initial memory that comes with a trip overseas is

what just how incredibly amazing the fans are. So I was at Wembley in two thousand thirteen, I believe, for Viking Steelers, and I was at Twickenham Stadium in two thousand seventeen for Vikings Browns, and it's like being at I don't know if I should call it real football. We have international listeners. I should probably call it real football.

But it's like being at a real football game, meaning a soccer game and not an American football game, because the noise is just through the roof the entire game. It's consistent. Remember the first game at Wembley there was the wave. I thought that was amazing, the tailgating, which is unusual for sporting events overseas. I could just keep going, but we don't want forty five minutes of me reminiscing

about going to London. A d D painting the picture for us Demani Leach, who's the CEO of NFL International. He's going to be with us a little bit later, but super excited Chargers running back Austin Neckler is also going to be with us on the show. All right, So break this down for me, because there's a lot of information on these international games, and I think instead of us just sort of teaching a school class lesson, we try to have a little bit of fun with us.

Works for me, alright. So NFL regular season or exhibition games, we were thinking about this since nineteen fifty and the amount of teams and really more specifically the countries the games are played in. And indeed you made references some of the matchups that you have seen two of them overseas. But can you name a couple of the countries and how many countries do you think the NFL has played overseas since nineteen fifty. I know Canada. I know Japan because we just told the t D story. I know

England because I've been there. Uh. I know Ireland because of the late Steelers owner Dan Rooney having played there. Um. I know Australia because Neil Gilman in our goal Post episode told us that he had to send goal post to Australia. M M, I know Mexico because those games at Estata Stecca are just absurdly ridiculously. I'm counting on my fingers right now, I'm doing the same. I'm up to six. Who am I missing? Because I feel like it's more than six, But I'm not really sure. You've

done a remarkable job. So nine is the total? So you only missed out on three? Who did I miss? Sweden? Which I think is sort of a hard one to get, so I'm not surprised, like that might be the more difficult one. Germany is one that you did not. I should have had Germany? Did I not have Germany? And how about Spain? I'd love to cover a game in Spain. Yeah, alright, alright, I got I have one for you. Then you said

the first international game was in nineteen fifty. That, of course, was the Giants playing the Ottawa rough Riders in Canada, and the NFL did go to Canada quite a bit in that era, from nineteen fifty to nineteen sixty nine. I think there were ten NFL games played in Canada. But how many total international exhibition games has the NFL played overseas since that first Giants Rough Riders game in

nineteen fifty. Wow. So the exhibition aspect of the question makes it more difficult for me, although I don't really even know the answer even if it's regular season or exhibition, but I would just imagine that there was more, especially early on because nowadays and you just you talked about your personal experiences, Like I think about how regular it is to see regular hedging, your hedging, your hedging, which is not necessarily a great answer because it's not specific.

That's a great way to guess, Like this is the game that I play with my six year old Mike when I'm guessing a number and you have to say higher or lower. So if your guest is fifty, higher, Mike. Uh, it's like the prices right when you were sick as a school kid, and you whatever the game. You bet a dollar, you wager a dollar, and that's your guest. If it's higher, I'll go sixty, then lower, Um, all right, fifty, I'll go one day. Yes, thinking there have been fifty

nine international exhibition games played since nineteen fifty. You know the first time that the NFL played in Mexico City probably before I was born, which was it was indeed before you were born in nineteen seventy eight. Okay, so I just missed out. I mean surely you can recall in your head, especially those Cowboys games fairly recently at a stadio a Stecca. Yeah, the drama, just how cool the environment is, and to be fair, a lot of

these international games they bring the flare. You mentioned some of your personal experience with the wave and the routs and just the chanting and how about this, because you've experienced the London deal, so I feel like you might actually know the answer to it. The first NFL exhibition game played in London? Do you know what year that was? Do you think the Vikings played in the first exhibition games? They did? Well done? I feel like that might have

been It's just a shot in the dark. I was like, come on, now, maybe there's got to be something there. Okay, so I know one of the teams, the Vikings. Now I need to know the other team, and I need to know the year after you were born or before you were born. Shortly after three well done, well done. I remember that game very well. Just trying to figure out how to work the I was gonna say TV remote, but at eighty three. We didn't actually had to stand up.

I was barely making my way waddling to the television. Do you wattle it too? I don't know how that works, but anyway, Uh, the Vikings Cardinals the St. Louis Cardinals, the matchup nineteen eighty three. Also, goalposts had to be shipped to London. Look, if you missed the goal post episode, go back check it out. Very very informative and a ton of fun for us to do. That show. So not bad nineteen eighty three, that so well done. Add

you know, I do recall this though. The reason that London pushed to have a game was because early in the eighties, and it may have been nineteen eighty two,

we can check really quickly. I think it was indeed nineteen eighty two, four and a half million citizens of Great Britain had stayed up into the wee hours of the morning watching the Super Bowl, and because that Super Bowl had drawn such insane fervor and ratings and fandom, London promoters were like, hey, hey, bring us a game, because we think there's an appetite for this, and they

were right about that. Look, I think a lot of it goes back to nineteen eighty six, not only were the Mets World Series champs, shout out to Page once again, It's been a while since we could celebrate like that, but eighty six the Bears took on the Cowboys, and in a lot of ways, this is like a critical moment for the NFL because the Bears would Dick company. They were the reigning Super Bowl champ. So you have guys like Walter Peyton, Tony Dorsett, Jim McMahon, ed to

Tall Jones, and of course this is just awesome. To see some of the video surrounding this game was really cool. But to also just see William the Refrigerator Perry in this football game was just spectacular. All the teams together, they didn't get as much publicity as William Perry did himself this past week in London. Dick put two plays in for him earlier this week. Let's see what they

were on Perry Mike. Honestly, I don't know why we don't do that more, especially when we see teams in this fourth and one situation, bring in your biggest guy in haven't be your ball carrier. The refrigerator ain't small. I can tell you that just I mean, you could just hear it all right. So then it was after that game if that was kind of the turning point where you had the superstars and there was clearly a

lot of excitement. It was after that I know that the NFL went to Mexico, went to Japan, went to the country I forgot earlier, Germany, Ireland, and as I mentioned, I keep coming back to this just because it's so exciting to see this many people. A stadio a Stecca has hosted the two largest crowds to watch an NFL game ever anywhere, and in it was the Cowboys Oilers more than one hundred and twelve thousand people. In it was the Cowboys Patriots, and that was more than a

hundred and six thousand people. But we've been talking about exhibition games, so let's move on to the games that actually counted, the games that matter that the NFL has played overseas. One guess how many regular season games do you think that the NFL has played outside America since two thousand five. I would imagine it's a fairly significant total just for the amount of games over the last few years that we have seen internationally, especially in London.

So I'm gonna say hovering probably around that thirty marks and so oh five, very very good, Mike, thirty eight, and very good of you to bring up London, because there have actually been twenty eight of those thirty eight regular season games outside the United States played in London, and you know the stadium where most of those games in London have been played, to lay up Wembley, I'm by far. I just and you even said it like

you've already you've covered two of those matchups. I feel like that is de facto NFL London, just based off of the sheer numbers. Yes and no, no demerits to Twickenham, which was a great host to me in two thousand seventeen, but covering a game at Wembley, I mean the hallowed grounds, just the whole atmosphere, the energy, everything about it really, really,

really truly one of my favorite NFL experiences ever. So let's hit the appetite for games in London starting in two thousand seven, so we said, since two thousand and five, there have been obviously thirty eight games that have counted thirty eight regular season games played overseas since two thousand and seven, twenty eight of those games have been played in London, and the first was the Giants beating the Dolphins at Wembley and the Giants had a star pass

rusher who is a friend of mine now that I once covered O C. Human Eura who was actually born in London playing in that game, and that game, Mike sold out in less than ninety minutes. That's how hungry people in London were to see an NFL game that counted in person, and selling tickets in London has not

been an issue since. Again, the appetite for games overseas is tremendous, so we should probably explain like why the Packers haven't played a regular season game in London ever, they're the only team that hasn't played there, they're the only publicly owned team, but some of the criteria, once again,

they just haven't met. And the fact that their stadium is sold out through the next couple of season's next three seasons is the reason why well in green Bay is also the NFL smallest city, the smallest market, and taking one home game away from green Bay could cost that city cost that market about fifteen million dollars, so

that is pretty significant. It is, and the NFL does compensate teams that do go and play overseas, But it would be a huge hit to the Green Bay Packers, who will eventually though they will be overseas relatively soon in the next few years, to get an opportunity to showcase some of the best talent and a storied franchise to some fans that don't get to watch here in the States. I do want to circle back though notable Hall of famers to play in exhibition games. Just the

list is pretty spectacular. I'll just highlight a couple of those names, but Joe Montana, Damn Marino, John l Way, Jerry Rice a good buddy mine, and Ronnie a lot I mean, once again, Michael Irvin, one of our colleagues at NFL Network. So it is a who's who that have decided to showcase themselves in front of a new audience and just get fans engaged overseas and over time deity that has sort of changed the complexion and the knowledge base of fans that are watching overseas. Okay, I've

got a tribute question for you. Though you just listed this fancy group of NFL players, do you know which quarterback actually leads all quarterbacks with wins in international games, So I think it's not a Hall of Famer. Did I give that away in the way I asked them? No? Well sort of. But I'm just thinking strategically, right because there's certain teams that just play more international games, and I know the Jags, just from just doing some of

the research, have played the most games. So I think it's someone in that organization just purely guessing on more opportunities. That is actually very true. The Jaguars have played seven games in London, that of course leads all NFL teams, and their quarterback for five of those seven games was play portals and he won three. That was very good logic right now. I appreciate that right there. If you paid me a million bucks now to get play portals, damn,

that wasn't gonna happen. But what did the players tell you about their time overseason some of these games? You know what's so interesting because there's been an arc. In the beginning, it felt for some as if this was, you know, a trip. It was a really cool trip for a week and you got to sightsee a little bit and enjoy where you were. And then for some it was very much a business trip. I'm referring to

that first game. The Vikings flew out essentially for the entire week before the game, whereas the Steelers came out on Friday morning before the Sunday kickoff. I know now that's been standardized a little bit and teams are indeed treating it more like a business trip. It was probably different during exhibition season. There used to be a time when NFL teams would go overseas to play exhibition games, pre season games, games that didn't necessarily count in the standings.

And you know, one of our colleagues, have you ever heard the story, Mike of T D playing an exhibition game in Tokyo? Arrell Davis, I've heard bits and pieces of it. Okay, So of course you know t D one of the nicest, nicest, nicest humans that we work with. He is now a Hall of Famer in the Hall of Fame running back for the Broncos forever well, he was a sixth round pick. He wasn't necessarily a guy

than anybody expected a lot out of. He was having a lot of trouble getting reps, getting Mike Shanahan to notice him, and in the Broncos went overseas to Tokyo, Japan to play an exhibition game, and t D actually tried to quit the team the week before the game. He was in Japan and he called the concierge to try to get him a flight back to America, but because he can speak Japanese, the flight never got booked and he ended up playing in the game, making the

amazing special teams tackle. He was so dominating that he made the Bronco's final roster and now he's a Hall of Famer. Can you imagine almost stepping away and all it takes. It just this one play and the play, you know, coming on special teams, and all of a sudden you get some reps, you know, to grab the attention of a couple of coaches and be ready to

rock and roll. Can and nowadays because someone will say, well, why are you calling the concierge, Like there wasn't I guess there was the Internet at that point in but it wasn't what it is. First of all, it was like dial up modems, yeah, punching up Expedia, like let me get Travelocity right here, or that it probably shouldn't say any sort of travel site because we don't have

a deal with any of them just yet. But hey, if anybody wants to sponsor us, to get on board, NFL explained, But there wasn't like you know, your your iPhone, you take it out and you can literally book travel like that just didn't exist. You her like the crackling noise of the dial up modem and a concier that didn't speak English and the rest is history. T D with an opportunity to to make his mark. It really

is amazing. Well indeed, coming up any more international football conversation. Plus, we'll talk to a man who's in charge of charting the future of the NFL international presence and I am just so jacked up for this. Charges running back Bust Neckler will tell us what his international game experiences were

like in London and Mexico. That's still become on. NFL explains, America's most reliable network is going ultra with Verizon five G Ultra wide band and more and more places, so you can do more without the ten times faster speeds. You can download a movie in mirror minutes. What yes, that's faster than your morning coffee. Run lights camera coffee, and while you're at it, go on and download a whole series in minutes or a new song in seconds A one A two A one to Oh, it's done.

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for whatever your business needs. Up Work the world's work marketplace. Learn more at www dot up work dot Com. Rivers in the shotgun at jus right, they show blitz and now Rivers settles in with eleven on the play plot and they bring the extra man out. Eckler right sideline. He's got a thirst. Five thirty puts in side twenty. Still want to speak, really a love it well, the London experience sounding very cool, Frost and Eckler, who joints us here on the NFL Explain podcast, Austin can't thank

you enough for your time. We'll get to be the Mexico City game in just a minute. But your Chargers beat the Titans in London. Tell me what stands out from that game you played back. Yeah, well, first of all, I'd like to say thanks for having me on. Appreciate the opportunity. That was my first international game. I was playing Wembley Stadium, and I remember just the time change. The time change, man, that was the big hurl that we're gonna have to prepare for going into the week.

And uh yeah, just getting the opportunity to go somewhere out That was my first time outside of the country too, And so there's all they just leading on factors as far as hey, this is how the schedule is gonna be. Here's how it's gonna work. You guys gotta get new outlet plug ins because they have a different type of outlet there. So all these things that are just like adding up, like okay, like I'm getting, you know, getting silent.

Let's go finally get out to the stadium, and then just the unconditional love there of the actually like it was sold out stadium. We were sold out for an NFL game. I felt like we were back in the US. As far as the energy, um, it was definitely different because it's just like positive energy the whole time. Usually it's like a home in a way, but it was just cheered basically the whole time. So that was pretty special. Definitely a memory that I'll have for the rest of

my life. That's awesome. I I gotta ask you about Wembley, but you just mentioned the time difference, which has me thinking that the preparation for a game like this is so different physically. And I know you just followed you on Instagram and social media. You don't really miss too many workouts and you schedule things appropriately. How different was the setup physically for you because of the longer flight and the conditions that you made reference to. It was

definitely tough. Definitely tough just going out there. I think we went out there and maybe two days earlier, so we got there. I remember we were supposed to sleep on the plane ride over and then run as soon as we got there. It was the start of the day, right well, hard to sleep and get a full good rest on the on a plane ride then wake up. We have to practice how to remembers Dragon like, man, this is hitting me like a truck, and just trying

to just continue to push through. And we knew it was a short window of time, so that's why I was just saying, okay, e mentually, I can get through this. I can get through this. It's just a couple of days. But it's really just one of those things where you know, we know both teams are tired, we're all professionals here, and so you know we still have a job to do. You also just sort of dropped in. You're used to the home in a way crowd Wembley, a packed stadium,

a lot of eyeballs and fans that are cheering. Is there anything that it does compared to that you've experienced. One particular thing that actually stands out before we go into that. It's kind of funny, but like every time we kicked the ball, it was like the loudest year. That's great. Just obviously you know, real football, but real football,

you know he's played. It is a more common sport there than actually like American football, we call it over here, we call it soccer, right, whatever you wanna call it. So I thought that was kind of funny, just the reference to just kicking the ball, just from an interaction standpoint with some of the locals. Did you get to interact it you? Is it just strictly a business trip and you don't really get to do sight seeing and that sort of thing. How does that play out? I

was educated. I went out to a restaurant and I was gonna I was gonna tip my waitress, and there's there's no tips, like you don't take tips. And then wherever I was at, I was like, all right, I guess they didn't take tips at this restaurant. So that was something that was kind of just as far as

my adventure out that was a little different. But as far as like sightseeing that we really didn't really have enough time to really go sight see or a transportation and then also I guess the driving on the opposite side of the road. Then what I'm used to right kind of trip me out. I brought up Wembley. I'm just curious because the Mexico situation at the time, difference isn't obviously as trashic. How did those two matchups compare? Yeah, so when we were playing in Mexico City, the elevation

was the factor there. It was like seven thousand whatever feet and I play at sea level, you know, so that's the main thing I remember about that was definitely when we were playing on the field, I was getting immediately tired after a play and just it was short of breath. Um. So there's definitely some outside factors when it comes to you know, these international games. Um, just the factor of you know, where it is in the world, or the elevation and like all these play apart. Like

my conditioning, it wasn't bad. It just wasn't my lung capacity, my red blood cell count. I know this because I used to go to college at seven thousand feet. Uh back at Western State was a little it's in the mountains, and then I went down to sea level in Colorado, or in California, So I know, like my red blood cell account isn't as high, you know, is it is? It should be to actually like sustain and play at

this level or this elevation. So it's a lot of science that probably you know, I don't bore you with, but yeah, definitely was a different atmosphere. But you know, we we highlighted this a little bit on the podcast as well, and I was talking to a d D. I used to cover see you and would occasionally make a trip to Boulder, and I remember those first few

times doing those runs. You feel fine for like the first I don't know, two hundred meters or so, and then after you're trying to get a mile running, I was gasping for hair. Did did some of your team? Is like when you brought that up, I would imagine the teams, the coaches in the staff run and said, hey, like guys, it is higher elevation. Did did some people are like kind of like poop poo at, Oh, It's like not going to be that big of a deal.

We actually traveled and stayed the week in Colorado to try to acclimate a little bit more, but it did not help. It did not help. So I think from that standpoint, the entire organization was taking it seriously. But I don't think we have enough training you know that could have helped us for that. It's just like, look, you're gonna be short of breath. You gotta deal with it. It is what it is, um. I know. We talked about the fans at Wembley and the cheering that was

happening there in Mexico City. Same different, moretty similar. It was just like positive energy. We're playing the Chiefs who just recently played actually and yeah, it was just you know, it was just energy, right. I think it's just because it doesn't happen as much. There's not a game that every single week, so it's not necessarily oh for this team, for this team, there's kind of like, oh, this, let's go experience, you know, American NFL football game before we

let you get going here. What's the best part about playing in an international game? Definitely the travel and the experience of just being outside of your country, and not only that you get to play a football game, the game that you've been working too and that you love outside of your country. I think that just creates memories. Like me in Mexico City and then at Wembley as well. That it's like, yeah, I played football in the NFL in other countries and that's something that I'll tell you

know my family in the future. Austin can't thank you enough for the time, man, Really really appreciate a continued success. It is a joy watching you on the football field, and it's awesome to get an opportunity to catch up with you. Awesome thanks for having me on my a pound for pound. Austin Ekeler might be the strongest player in the NFL, but certainly guy that's got a wealth of experience with international games, and appreciate him given us some time here on the podcast. But the history now

officially in the rear view mirror. We will look to the future of international football. The CEO of NFL International, Demandi Leach, maybe break some news with us. Coming up next on the NFL Explained podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Kindrel. Kindrel Designs builds, manages and modernizes the mission critical technology systems that the world depends on every day. Working side by side with their customers, they imagine things differently.

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some of these international games. I understand engaging a fan base is really important, but if I said to you, what's on the checklist? Why play international? What's the response? Overall, what we're trying to do is grow the number of fans we have around the world and deepen our connection with them, and games is one really important strategic lever for us to do that. So you know, we think about it as we've got over two million fans and our key markets around the world, and with our games

we're able to do two things. One is deep in our relationship with those existing NFL fans. That's giving them a tangible connection to the league that the otherwise wouldn't be able to get. And then the second is to generate new fans. We raise broad awareness in those markets. The NFL gets talked about more on television, gets talked about more in newspapers, on social media, so broad awareness increases significantly and that brings new people into the NFL

tent of fandom, so to speak. It's so true. I've been I myself have been to two games in London Demandi, and I know the Times of London will put the game leading up to the game on the front page of the paper and sometimes we push, you know, the Royals out of the way. But having said that, how do you pick where when you talk about markets? Obviously I'm mentioned in London, you played in Mexico, in Australia, Ireland.

How do you know where to go? I think now when you talk about some of those markets, that was sort of early days of NFL exploration globally where we were playing preseason games and a lot of different markets. I think because they were preseason games at the time, some of those stakes were lower. Now the NFL fan globally is much more mature. When a team is in town. When the Seahawks are in town, they want to see

Russell Wilson play. They don't want to see Demani Leech as the you know, the fourth string quarterback out there playing in a game. They want to see Russell Wilson. So the regular season game, the authentic NFL experience, is really important. And there's really sort of three things we look at in deciding where we're going to play those games. The that's fans, operations, and economics. The fan one is

is this a market that's important to us? Is it a focus market, meaning it's somewhere we're already investing growth in fan development in that market. We don't want this to be just the circus coming to town. Instead, we want this to be a way that we can get step change growth in that market and continue to see growth over time. The second operations, and that you know, as you all know, we just have a limited inventory of games to play. This is not like basketball or baseball.

Every game matters and we take that to heart when we think about playing a game in London or in Mexico City. Uh, these games are super important. So everything from travel distance to the stadium we're playing at, the field we're playing on, all those things are incredibly important. So those things have to make sense wherever we're gonna play.

And then the third finally is economics, and we've got to pay for these games, and we're taking games out of markets here in the US that has a revenue impact and we've got to make sure that works for the league. I'd say those last two broadcast all so factors into both of those, both operationally like when are we actually kicking off and does that make sense? But also the economics, right, our our media partners have paid for these games to be shown in the US and

it needs to work for them as well. Is it hard to get teams to want to do this just knowing the financial effect on communities locally? I think it depends on the team. I think historically the way that teams have played international games has really been three buckets. The first is you're a team playing in a temporary stadium, right Raiders, Chargers. That compels a team to be selected to play at least one international game a year. The second has been your your community has been awarded a

super Bowl. So if you get a super Bowl, one of the conditions of being granted that super Bowl is you could be compelled to play one international game. And then the third is just what we'll say as a volunteer team like Jacksonville who says, we believe that this is important for us, we want to grow our brand, we volunteer to play a game internationally. So those are sort of been the three ways that's happened historically. Moving

forward now that we're into seventeen game season. One of the things that owners committed to as part of that was, Hey, we've got this additional inventory. Let's set aside some of that for international games. So starting next year, every team is going to play one international game over an eight year period. Are there certain teams that do well in certain markets? Would you like to match up I'll use the Steelers again. Would you like to match up the

Steelers to Mexico? Would you like to match up certain teams to Canada or Germany? The short answer is yes, and we we do this and we also we share it with our teams. So we research fans on a monthly basis. We do monthly fans surveys in each market, asking them a number of questions, probably too many questions if you ask them, but we get that sort of

information and so we know. We also have the data on which teams they watch on television, who they follow on social media, whose T shirts and hats they buy on NFL shop. But tell us some of the picture of those of those most popular teams. It's the teams that you would think in those markets. Um, we love all thirty two clubs and I'm trying to get something juicy here. Yeah, so we definitely do want to do that.

And I guess what that relates to is we've shared that with clubs starting really in January, so clubs will this year have the ability to really take advantage of that. And so if you are the Steelers and you see that you've got some fandom in Mexico, previously, you've been limited to what you can do in terms of engaging with those fans. So we'll now starting at about two weeks, clubs will be able to submit proposals to say, we

want to engage with fans in Mexico. This is our five year proposal for marketing and fan development in that market, and we're committed to growing fans in that market. What we will do then is with those international games, just try to marry those two things together and say, Okay, you've committed to that market. You already know that you've got to play one international of the game. We're gonna do our best to try and connect those two things.

All right, give me some of the juicy stuff, because you've given me the business, you've given me the overarching view of of goals and initiatives it's game day and look at d D said, you show up to uh she went to Wembley. She's saying, yeah, I see. You know, all these different jerseys in the stands. Like I would imagine that there's such a huge fan base for what I will call soccer. I know they'll cringe at least

in Europe at that defining it that way. It's it's so awesome to see some of the customs that they have have they brought some of the soccer customs to NFL games and kind of like sprinkle in that local field. Yeah. You know what's interesting is we constantly the feedback we get from fans is they want the authentic NFL. They

can get soccer any day of the week. So we invest a ton in creating that tailgate atmosphere that you don't get um for soccer games, and infusing our games with music and having halftime performances and fireworks and cheerleaders and all of those things that and they think of the NFL and what makes it different from their local sport.

That's what we work hard to deliver. It ends up being sort of a convention or reunion of just if you are a NFL fan come to the game, doesn't matter who's playing, put on whatever jersey you have, uh, and where that to the game. I think one thing that we've seen evolve over time is there's less and less of that because teams are becoming real hardcore fans of those teams, and it's you see it in the jerseys.

I think the last time we played in Mexico, I was telling our tour Olive, who manages the NFL Mexico office, like you hear it. That's that really deep passionate fandom that we're starting to grow. Well, what about the flip side. You know, we're talking about research, and obviously you do conduct a ton of research with the fans and the

experience for them. What about the players. I've covered teams that have shown up on Friday before game day, and I've covered teams that show up on Monday and enjoy the week. What have players said about their experience? And what's one way that you've tweaked the whole thing. One thing that we've done is start to bring some standardization to that time frame that teams travel. It used to be very much because it was new ground and there's a lot of uncertainty about what this is going to

do from performance standpoint. A lot of strength coaches and head coaches wanted to dictate when their teams travel. I think now that everybody has been through it, um except the packers, everybody has been through it. Um. They're all pretty comfortable with it and can get to a point where they're starting to arrive within that same cadence of just a couple of days before those games, um and feel good about it. I think, you know, we've done things like buy equipment and just have it on site

rather than having to ship certain things. That just makes it a lot more turn key for them. But definitely the players just love the experience, the culture. I think for a lot of them they are seeing really sort of thinking it's really be here, Like hey, the NFL's global. It's another thing to see it right and to be there and be like, wow, look at there's seventy thousand fans. Them are not from America that love us, not just love the game, but love us. They love our team.

We obviously have some international players the we have Australians, we have Germans, we had a Scottish player, the Scottish Hammer Jamie Gilliam. How much do these games do you think matter in terms of developing a feeding ground or those two totally separate things. They raise broad awareness, and I think you hear people talk about, you know, just like they do here in America, right, Like I saw someone on TV. Right, if I see it, I can be it, right, And so if you see that, you're like, oh,

I want to go do that. I want to try that, And so you definitely hear those stories. I think what we have done as a league in international has just has really separately just invested more so. We have this international Player Pathway program um and we spend time in resources looking for football players but also rugby players like Jordan my Latta. Right, He's a great example of that.

Someone we found in Australia four years ago playing rugby, really too too big to be out on the rugby pitch um telling us hey, I'm I'm I'm tired of starving myself trying to keep my weight down, and we said, hey, have you ever tried football? He'd never been in a three point stands, he'd never had a helmet on, and four years later he's a starting left tackle for the Philadelphia Eagles, just getting getting paid and it has one of the best smiles in football. Let's say that if

you haven't heard Jordan's saying, his voice is amazing. That's a little side note, Maye. We'll do an episode down the road on you know, extracurricular activities of some of these NFL players and to Yeah, it's one of those you know those training camp things are they try and hase guys and so some guy gets up there and blows everybody away. I was like, wait a minute, I can really say, and they put the helmet out in front of them and people are expected to go and

tip at that point. Um, look, I'd love to also get your take on and did he sort of made reference to it with the scheduling and when some of the teams arrive internationally. I know it's different because it's still a business trip, but anything stand out to you, Demani in terms of experiencing the culture and taking advantage of at some point in your season, you're not going through your normal routine and maybe this is something that

we should embrace. Yeah, I think it's a business trip, right, it's a regular season game, so it's not Hey, We're gonna go to London and spend a week they're traveling around and hey there's big been. Um you know, it's it's a regular season game that matters. We're in the middle of the season in October and November for these international games, so there's not a ton of opportunity to do that, and so we try to sort of build that into the team's experience, everything from their arrival and

things like that. And so you know in Mexico, right, you get off the bus and you go into your hotel. Let's have you know, Mariachi Bay and there, let's have fans there, um, you know, of your specific team cheering you on as you go into the hotel. My favorite was a couple of years ago in Mexico when the Chargers arrived. Philip Rivers on the team and there was this huge sign with a picture of Philip Rivers wearing a sombrero and it said Phelipe Rios translated that's amazing,

that's amazing. He loved it was, Oh, that's tremendous. I hope he signed it or took a picture with it or something. Yeah, last one for us to money. You've given us so much time here, but what would it take for something very significant? A playoff game, a Super Bowl,

or an actual expansion team to happen overseas. I think a lot, but I think I think all of those are I think all of those are different, right, And we think about those in international we think about those all the time, but I think we think about them differently, right, And so I think a team, Look, we are really excited about where we are, particularly in these markets, you know, UK, Mexico here pretty soon Germany. A lot of fandom, a lot of viewership that backs up that fandom. We see it.

We have commercial success in those markets, and so what we can do as league staff is just really sort of put those markets in a position to where, if and when there is an owner who ultimately is gonna drive that who wants to put a team in one of those markets, that the market is ready and capable of hosting them. But that's really sort of beyond our control.

We do think about things though, like draft and Pro Bowl and these sort of one off events, and you know, Peter O'Reilly and events will kick me, but those are the kinds of things that we bring to him and say, hey, you know, what about NFL Draft in Toronto? What about Pro Bowl in Australia, and so those are the kinds of things that we think about and work on all

the time. When they'll happen, I don't know. We've got to solve for those same things, just like games, right, like fans, operations in economics, all those things have to make sense. But it's definitely the kind of stuff we like working on. A nice way to side step the Super Bowl conversation. I was waiting for me to tell me what you're in. The super Bowl is going to be played and picked the country, Yes, exactly, it will be in Yeah, well it's fine. I'm sitting here thinking

about the Pro Bowl. I've been angling for the Pro Bowl to go back to Hawaii so I can make that trip. Now you're telling me I can actually lobby for a trip to Australia. Come on, come on, yeah, we'll join us, join us. We're working on it. Demani a wealth of knowledge. I think my biggest takeaway here is the fact that you brought tailgating um overseas two venues that don't do tailgating for soccer matches, which is wild to me. I didn't even realize that that was

the thing. So if there's one thing the NFL is doing in a positive way internationally. It's bring the dogs and the burghers to the parking lot. This is not amateur Demani can't thank you enough for the time and really painting the picture on some of these international contests. Absolutely, this was fun, you know. Like the one thing that didn't get to ask the money about is the International Combine.

We heard him talk about the international players and the growth of the game as young kids have gotten to witness these games in person. But now this year, for the first time, they will actually be a combine in London at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium October twelfth. I think that is awesome and genius at the same time, because these are the next stars. I mean, this will select a few of athletes that are going to be chosen to

participate in this NFL International Combine. I know the league is going to be picking some of the more high profile talent fifty top fifty players, correct, and you get to go and say, hey, I saw them in their combined experience and now maybe attached to them wherever they end up in the NFL draft. So I absolutely love it, and I'll tell you this just as a reporter. I

love being around people from all different places. And you know, like when you hear Jordan Malata's acts in or you it just it adds a different verve in the locker room. So the more international players playing in the NFL, the better for all of us. Okay, keep the reporter cap on for me. If I sit to you, you get to go and cover an NFL game. Pick the international location. Where would it be? Okay, So if it's a place that the NFL has already been to, Spain I would

love to do because I haven't been there yet. Or Australia because I have a cousin in Australia. If I could stomach the flight, then yes, Australia a place that the NFL has not been to. Well, look after the last year and a half that we've had, everybody needs a vacation. So I'm picking like Jamaica, and I bet Mike there would be lots of hands raised to go

to Jamaica to play a game. I bet if you ask those Green Bay Packers players in the middle of the winter picked that international location, you you got a quick yes on that front. I'm with you. I think those are all good locations and all spots that I've never been to, so I would be all about it, but I'd be remist if I didn't make reference to the growth of the game in places where they need to experience NFL football, and our friends in NFL China

their offices in Shanghai. I've had some opportunities to talk to some folks over there. It would be awesome because we're seeing sort of this growth. That was my guy, Tailor Rap who played with Dogs. Now obviously with the Rams, I think it would be really cool for a fan base there to experience a game. But I would love to hear from some of our listeners. I know we're big in London already based off of some of the metrics, but from an international audience perspective, where would you guys

like to see an NFL game? You can tweet at us and make sure that you use that hashtag NFL explained. We will go through some of those in a future show. Of course. Always appreciate everyone who's been checking in following our show, giving us a rating and a review. It has been a remarkable experience for both the d D and I to get an opportunity to interact with a lot of our listeners who appreciate everyone who's been checking in, and we look forward to our next edition and that

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