Should I Really Ice the Kicker?

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and five G content optimization by Crosby. It's up and hang on the bears called time out. That does not count beckers. So we've all seen it. The final few seconds of a close game. The kicker lines up for a make or break field goal, heart rates starts spiking, the blood pressure starts creeping up, only to hear a whistle the defense calls a time out prior to an important kick, and in football vernacular, this is what we call I sing the kicker. Welcome my friend, Mike Yam.

How are you doing today? I'm doing great. When you talk about the heart rate spiking and the blood pressure going, are you talking about the fans or the kicker, because I think you're describing me while I'm watching some of these guys line up only to hear that whistle go off goal. Here we go again, here's the icing. I'm a dad kinka balla. That is my dear, dear friend, Mike Yam. And today we're going to talk about exactly that.

Whose heart rate goes up, who gets irritated? And as common as this has become, we really need to answer the question does the psychological warfare of icing the kicker actually work? Mike? We're going to dive into the origins of this. We're going to take a look at what the stats say, We'll find out what a few coaches and players have to say, and then I am going

to see where you line up on this. If you are a head coach, are you waving your hand and calling time or are you just saying let it be okay. I don't want to give anything away a d D. But you know, I'm a numbers guy. I love the analytics, and if I was a head coach, I'd be leaning

on some of those analytics. But I think it's really important to DD to explain the statistical parameters surrounding a kick and being classified as icing the kicker so a team, because I always thought it was like, Yo, call time out right before the guy lines up, that's ice in the kicker. And yes, while that is a part of it, two minutes are less remaining in regulation or at any point in and overtime, that also is considered icing the kicker. And if the kicking team has a max lead of

eight or if they're down by three. And it's actually believed that one of the first known instances of a kicker being ice is maybe one of the most famous field goal attempts in NFL history. I actually remember being in one of my best friends basements at the time watching the Super Bowl January seven. Don't ask me what I was wearing that day. But it's Super Bowl Bills and Giants and Buffalo kicker Scott Norwood lines up for a forty seven yard field goal attempt with just eight

seconds left to play. Parcels wants a time out to make Nora would think it's going to be a forty seven yard field goal attempt. Rank Rank will be the holder. When the ball is snap time out, New York, eight seconds left, Adam Lingner will snap it no good. But dd I made reference to being in my best friend's basement at the time. It was like one of the first Super Bowl memories that I can come up with, and certainly a memorable one for a lot of different reasons.

But Bill Parcels tells one of his players on the field to call a time out to make him think about it a little bit longer. Norwood's kick obviously sales to the right Parcels he gets the gatorade bath. There's pictures all over social media, all right. There was no social at the time, but if there was, you would have seen it, trust me. Nor would he ends his career sixty on field goals from forty to forty nine

yards out. But maybe those extra few seconds to think about it a d D might have actually had a huge effect on the result of that kick, maybe, you know, and I can't find we of course couldn't get ahold of Scott Norwood, and I can't find any reference to whether he said that did indeed screw with him. But I will say that after that we started seeing more coaches do it. And you know, like, let's go back to the Raiders trying to get into Adam Vinytari's head

during the famous Tuck Rule game in the snow. Of course we always talk about it as the Tuck Rule. It's a divisional playoff matchup between the Raiders in New England two thousand two. Well, you see John Gruden yelling his players he wants to take a time out. You know, I've talked to kickers situations like this. Let's say, when you get ice, does it bother you? When they do, then they go no, they love it. It just gives them more time to prepare and get ready for the kick.

So ultimately it didn't matter. Vinetary delivered the game winner, and then he did the exact same thing after being quote unquote ice in Super Bowl thirty eight. Two years later in two thousand four, he hit the game winner against the Panthers. And you know, Vinytary was of course known for making the big kicks his whole entire career, whether he's ice, whether he's not, whatever. But today, think about how many times we see a coach sprint down a sideline to call a time out just before the

ball is snapped. You made this point before Bill Parcels had to tell one of his players, because until two thousand six, Mike, it was only players on the field who are allowed to call that time out. Oh, Bill Parcels, just ahead of the game's abundantly clear. All right. So the more recent generation of icing from the sideline was actually started by Mike Shanahan in week number two of

the two thousand six season. Shanahan actually iced Oakland kicker Sebastian Janikowski, who, by the way, you could just drill them, it felt like from miles away. He actually put a fifty two yard or through the uprights as the whistle was blown on the rekick he missed, and the coach icing floodgates were certainly open. In fact, and this is

kind of a cool little tidbit here. Adity Oakland coach Lane Kiff and whose team was on the receiving end of that Shannahan icing got a little bit of revenge the very next week when the Ice Cleveland's Phil Dawson that led to a blocked kick upon that retry, and in the postgame press conference, Kiffen actually said I learned that from Mike, referring to Shanahan. Thanks Mike, And if you follow Lane Kiffin on social media, you know he's

got no problem trolling anyone. I can't imagine if that was if Twitter was around at that point, some of the tweets that coach Kiffin would have been sending out after icing a kicker and it working well, Mike, don't they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and another cliche for us in the NFL it is a copycat league. So of course Lane Kiffin saw what Mike shanahand did, how it worked, he would try it again. But let me tell you this, the act of icing

a kicker was not without controversy. You know, just a year after a rule was implemented to allow coaches to call time outs on the sideline and not just require their players on the field to do it, there was actually a conversation that the NFL should perhaps ban icing the kicker. So in two thousand seven, at the time, the head of officiating was Mike Pereira, and Mike Pereira said, then it is the unintended consequence of a good rule change, and what he meant was the ability for coaches to

call time outs. He said, I don't think any of us projected it would be used this way. It us doesn't seem right. But kicker J Feely at the very same time that same year says, look, I understand the strategy. At the same time, there are a lot of plays that the NFL has outlawed because they say it is deceptive in nature. I think this falls under the same category.

It's deceptive. Is it actually really deceptive? It's got that vibe, but it's Look, it's not illegal to do it, and this is kind of how the rules have played out. I understand why people would get upset, especially if I was a kicker having to think about that kick and be knocked out of my normal routine. But is that not part of your job to be so mentally tough that no matter what, you have to nail that kick. Yes,

that is a part of your job. But the problem is not everyone is mentally tough enough to be able to handle those situations. An NFL kicker, well, every team needs a kicker. I mean, isn't that the difference between Justin Tucker and you know, some of these other people, but there's only one. Justin Tucker is the problem and

someone still needs to go out there and kick. I'm with you, there is there's some gamesmanship surrounding this, but look, the leagues just said, look like this is what the deal is and allowed Ice and to continue, and it's blessed us with I think some of the cool memorable moments that we've seen in the past, don't kay, who kick a successful forty nine yard or only to have the time out by Jason Garrett force him to do

it again? Mrs Like, how insane is that? That was two thousand eleven and Cowboys coached Jason Garrett actually iced his own kicker, Dan Bailey nailed the forty nine yard er, but Garrett had called a time out and on the re kick he missed, and so Arizona beat Dallas in overtime.

That's one of those moments where you say to yourself, it's like when of coaches on the sideline and his player does something that you don't like and you're like no, no, no, But then it works out and go, oh, yes, that's okay. This is sort of like that, except it's the exact opposite. So certainly a buzz kill from that perspective, but it

did give us one of those cool little moments. But there was all so the wild card game between the Bears and the Eagles, Chicago's Cody bark He actually drilled a forty three yarder just as a time out was called, but upon the rekick, we got this, and that's impossible. Oh my goodness. The Bears season's gonna end on a

double doing mike if you ask anybody right now. Of course, we all think of that as the double doink, and they will live forever in Bear's lowre But let me tell you there is actually a version of a double doink. Even before that two thousand seven, Joe Gibbs, he was so excited about the prospect of icing Buffalo kicker Ryan Lindell. That is, Lindall lined up for a potential fifty one yard game winning field goal, gives called the time out, but as the Bills lined up again, he called a

second time out. Mike, take a list of Washington right, not called consecutive trying out for in this case trafrezer kicker hard rule. This is unsupposed were like conduct fifteen yard automatic pisture and guess what happened, Mike. Instead of a fifty one yard field goal, it turned into a thirty six yard field goal, and of course Lindell put it through for the wind. Uh. Good effort by coach Gibbs.

Not the worst idea in the world. If you probably knew the rule, he would not have executed that second time out, But nonetheless, it was definitely one of those unforgettable moments. But there's obviously a ton of instances where a kicker might melt under the pressure of being iced, and others are known for having ice in their veins. But what do the numbers say A D D The numbers they speak volumes? Are kickers really affected by the simple act of a short interruption to their pre kick ritual?

Coming up after the break the data it doesn't lie. Does icing the kicker actually work? We have the answer coming up next on the NFL Explained podcast. America's most reliable network is going Ultra with Verizon five G Ultra wide Band in more and more places, so you can do more without the ten times faster speeds. You can download a movie in mere minutes. What Yes, that's faster

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Who can start today so your business can succeed tomorrow, higher at home or in a hundred and eighty countries around the world. To find the right talent for whatever your business needs. Up Work the world's work marketplace. Learn more at www dot up work dot com. Welcome back to NFL explained We're in search of the answer to this very key question, Michael, Yeah, does I sing the

kicker actually work? So in two thousand seven, Mike then head coach Jeff Fisher, who was part of the NFL's competition committee, said, I think as soon as a head coach Ice is a kicker and the kick is ment and then re kicked and made, we're just not going to see this ever again. But whoa was Coach Fisher are wrong? Mike. Icing has been rampant across the league. So let's do one of your favorite things. Let's go ahead and do a data dive and see if I

Sing the Kicker actually works. I'll go back to what you laid out at the very top of the show. The statistical parameters when we are considering icing means that there have to be less than two minutes remaining in regulation or we need to be an overtime. The kicking team can't be up by any more than eight, and

the kicking team's max's hole can't be any greater than three. So, according to this definition above, there have been five hundred and forty one instances of icing since that includes the playoffs, and so, drum roll, mike, what does the data say about those five hundred and forty one instances of ice? Okay, I'm not gonna lie. I saw these numbers and I almost don't want to give them because I can't get over what the results are. I almost don't believe it.

But I know our research team is phenomenal and they wouldn't lie to us, and they wouldn't lie to our listeners. But let's take a look at some of these numbers. Since ninety three, in the field goal range between twenty and twenty nine yards, kicks that were iced were converted nine percent of the time not iced three percent of the time. So there is a little bit of a difference in that range that does favor maybe ice and

the kicker. In some of those moments from thirty to thirty nine yards, kickers buried ninety one percent of their field goals when they were iced eighty five percent when they were not iced, which is sort of an interesting development. From forty to forty nine, they bury sixty six percent of their field goals when they're iced versus sixty nine percent when they're not iced, and then fifty plus yards fifty one percent they convert when they're iced, fifty percent

when they're not. So over all, when you kick and you're iced, you'll still be able to hit it seventy of the time, not iced seventy six per cent. So there's just a little bit of statistical differences overall, and I guess we net out at it really doesn't matter in fact, on those kicks once again, a fifty plus yards,

those are the ones that feel the most pressure. Kickers are actually making more kicks when they are ice, which once again and Ded, I almost can't wrap my head around it because I think about the n b A and guys when they're trying to knock down free throws

and coaches that call timeout. So you think about those free throws, I feel like it is so abundantly clear that icing free throw shooters actually has a bigger effect, And that's why I want to say these kickers are feeling it, but the numbers they don't say that that's the case of d D okay, So Mike, it actually seems that if you give the kicker a little bit more time, a little bit more time to account for the wind, to gauge for the wind, to figure out

what the field is like, to think, it might be better. And I have another piece of evidence for that. We had our stats. You get even more granular, so we looked at if there was only five seconds or less remaining in regulation. Since kickers have made seventy two point one per cent of their kicks when they were iced with five or less seconds remaining in regulation. If they were not iced, they made only sixty eight point eight

percent of their kicks. So kickers are actually more successful when they are iced on kicks that are essentially the final play of the game. A little extra time may not be a bad thing. Almost don't believe it, Like I know, the numbers are the numbers. I just it's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that icing is not really affecting some of these kickers. And maybe because there is a robotic nature to it.

I mean, I feel like I d Every time. You know, you and I have been on a football field and you see the preparation in the setup. It's the same routine every single time. And I think that's why I feel like, if you used the kicker, you're messing up the routine. But I guess the reality is it's not having as much of an effect as I think coaches feel like, and certainly that that I thought heading into the show. Well, it's the same thing that you just said, right,

You called it robotics. So what difference does it make if you do it now or if you do it five seconds from now or thirty seconds from now, or you know, a minute from now. We talked about Adam Venytarian earlier. Obviously, no kicker has been ice more than the NFL's all time leading scorer thirteen times. He was iced in his career. Ten of the thirteen he converted. But you know, the most ice called kicker of all time actually is Matt Prader, who was ice ten times.

And go ahead, give me a guess on those ten, how many did he actually convert? Nine ten? Five of them were for more than forty yards. That's ice in the veins. David Acres, he was ten for eleven in his career on his icing attempts. And then of course Justin Tucker, friend of the po our dear friend, who of course was on our third podcast ever, all on goal posts. Well, he's the NFL's most accurate kicker of all time. Nobody's even bothered icing him since two thousand sixteen.

And I'll tell you this way back in two thousand thirteen, he was asked about being iced, and he said exactly what I just said to you earlier. Tucker said, if anything, it gives you a little bit more time to pick out your aiming point. I don't think it has any bearing on what happens in live game action. So there it is, the goat, the friend of the podcast, the new records center in the NFL. With that sixty six yard field goal, Justin Tucker giving his thoughts to us,

case is closed. Mike. Yeah. Look, if if it's Prayer or it's Tucker, you don't even have to even ask. Those are the two guys that can make the claim that icing doesn't matter because you're not even gonna bother icing Tucker and Prayer. Obviously it was good for there, So it makes sense to hear that from the goat of all kickers and Justin Tucker. Once again, if you missed episode on field goal Posts, go back and take

a listen. It was awesome. But for coaches, though, ice get kicker just one way that they can make sure that that game doesn't go into the locker room with time outs in their pocket. One of the cardinal sins of coaching. Icing has become so commonplace that not doing it is more likely to get called out in a postgame pressure. So In Falcon's head coach Mike Smith said, we've been two for two on our icing. I know that somebody got the statistics out there that it probably

doesn't help. I can just speak to the experiences that I've had and it definitely has worked for us. So add you got one head coach that has done it before that says, you know what, icing is something that we're going to continue to do because we've had success with it. Alright, Fine, whatever makes you feel that you can sleep best at night. However, if you want to feel like you've used all your time outs, you've thrown everything at it, you've given it every attempt. Great, all right,

what's the supreme measuring stick? For all football. If you tell me that it's a video game, if you tell me it's Madden, yeah, I remember I don't play video games, so that's fine. So yet we're still friends. I don't know how that's possible, but all right, so everything centers around Madden, right, Like I think about my childhood, I think about my days in college. Just what you learn

about the game when you're hitting those buttons. All right, final note here, because I know there's a ton of gamers out there that are probably listening to this pod, and I know what that industry. It's been exploding. So how about this Madden Football the video game is actually added a feature that allows for icing the kicker. The data and we've laid it out. Add the data actually says maybe there's not much of a difference, but tell you what, in the Madden Football game, it actually makes

the kick a little bit more difficult. So and it's just like the most Unmike Yam thing ever to say, don't go with the numbers. You do know that Madden's not reality. What are you talking about? They got the players and the names, and I can drove that's that is reality. That's how I roll. So I'm icing the kickers, add and I don't know if you would either, but

you've been around on enough people. And look, you said this at the beginning of this episode that if you're getting paid to play, and you're a professional athlete, shouldn't you be tough enough to not have icing affect you. There's the human element, which is exactly why I'm not a fan of it. Like I I just don't think it makes a difference. And if anything, the numbers tell us that icing gives them more time. Not only the numbers, but justin Tucker tells us that icing gives you a

little bit more time. I think that when you have time, you can take a breath, you can slow things down, and if you just have to rush out there and do it, something might be missed. So if I'm a head coach, I am not icing the opposing kicker, And if I'm a head coach, I'm never in a game that's close enough where you know the kicker could beat me in the last five seconds. Oh wow, Okay, supreme

confidence there. Well, let's play each other in Madden. I'll be icing you all day and you're gonna be making any of those kicks. But We would love to hear from you guys about this, because as much as I feel like the numbers tell one story, there's the whole psychology around it. And it speaks to one of our other episodes too, right on fourth down and going for it on fourth down? Does it make sense to go and do it? The numbers actually say that you should.

There is psychological time add time at time out. How'd that go for you, Mike? I was just pausing. I was like, I didn't know you were stopping the record. I didn't know if this was like a real deal or not. No, I'm not stopping the record, Mike. That was the whole point. I was icing you. Oh so it's all good. Now I'm gonna go out and stumble and fumble to make my point stronger that icing actually does work as opposed to trying to be a smooth

host on this podcast. I'm screwed either way. But look, the numbers, at least on fourth down show that going for it you're probably gonna be more successful. And yet at the same time, there's a psychological effects surrounding it. And I think when it comes to Ice and the Kickers, the numbers say, you know what, it's not going to

make a difference. But if I'm on the sideline and I think I got one last little bullet in the chamber that might help my team win, and it's Ice and the Kicker, Damn right, I'm calling time out to try to make that work. And maybe some people are calling me crazy and say, hey, Mike, the numbers sell one story. But I'd love to hear from some of our listeners about this. We've been getting great feedback on social media. On Twitter, people can firing off questions to

us at a King Kabala, at my thunderscore Yam. You can use the hashtag NFL explained And if you think that Icing the Kickers actually weren't, we would love to hear from you. It doesn't work, But anyway, everybody, thanks for joining us once again. That is Icing the Kicker Explained. Brought to you by up work, where you can build the team that will build your business. Learn more at

upwork dot Com. America's most reliable network is going ultra with Verizon five G Ultra Wide ban and more and more places with up to ten times faster speeds, you can download a movie in mere minutes. What Yes, Verizon is going ultra so you can too. Five G Ultra wide ban available and select areas most reliable based on rankings from the Root Metrics US ROOTS Score report dated first half, excluding c ban and not specific to five

G networks. Your results may vary. Not an endorsement speed comparison to median Verizon four G LTE speeds, Downloads vary based on network conditions and five G content optimization