Kevin O'Connell and Ryan Poles

a comment. Anywhere you listen to your podcast with us Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio podcast. You tell a friend to make sure to tell a friend to tell a friend to check us out. We actually got another follower at breakfast this morning. So just know we continue to spread the word and we're doing our thing. Peanut, Who we got today? We got a Viking's head coach, Kevin O'Connell and Bears

GM and Pulse. Check out their interview. Today's guests went thirteen and four in his first season as a head coach. He won Super Bowl fifty six as an offensive coordinator for the Rams. He is a Saint Diego State alum. He got his first coaching gig in the NFL in twoy fifteen. Please welcome our guests, head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, Kevin O'Connell. So, uh, you were at the game last night, right, Saint Nigos State, y'all have huge Alabama? Wait?

Wait what team did y'all beat Alabama? Yeah? He went to Alabama and I love I'll tell you what. Oh my god, I've never seen I mean, just the athletes on that court. Saint eve State has done an unbelievable job with their program. But Alabama, my goodness, I mean the number one overall seed for a reason. In turn, Yeah, yeah, we had to We had to slop it up a little bit, make a little bit of a street fight to get that one. That's kind of the way we play.

But it lets you to me though, it doesn't really matter about what seed you are, because they y'all got the job done right, well you can it was. It was the first time in a while for me being at an NCAA tournament game. Um, I'm sure you guys have been to those games before. It doesn't feel like it just feels like they're regardless of seeds. It feels like there's two teams just playing right and anything can happen. Like when you're there, you actually feel how a sixteen

could be to Purdue. You know, FDU could be Purdue. You could you feel it because that ball goes up, momentum swings, and that's guard who was on the You know, it's a street going on. Who goes hot and win? And so lucky for me, I didn't get to watch the game. I was flying here last night, so I didn't watch the game. I did keep up with the scores, and so San Diego State was up, but it was one half. I'm like, if Alabama shoots well, they beat

anybody in the country. Clearly they didn't shoot well San Diego State. And after talking to some of my friends, it wasn't about what Alabama didn't do, but it was more about what San Diego State did to Alabama. Last night, I had a blog party playing great defense. Just give me a little inside of what you saw as a basketball matchups, because yeah, you're big sports, Well, shoot, they had to be physical because I mean you look at these guys. I mean Alabama has first of all, they're big,

they're long, they're athletic. I mean, my man, you know some of these guys, I just watching them and warm ups. You're looking at one side of the court. It was the old like, I know you guys did this in your playing career. Sometimes you're playing against the team, you look across the fifty and you're like, my goodness, no, yeah, we'll take that guy. That guy, that guy will take

them all. I'm standing there with my son. I brought my eight year old Kaden, and we're watching Sandy or stay warm up on one side and we're watching and you're like, I'm having a tough time seeing it. And then that game said got started it and it literally turned into I mean it was nasty, kind of physical ball, a lot of guys on the ground, big diving for loose balls, and Alabama. I just thought it was a

great game. Sanday State's up at the half. Then Alabama goes up nine kind of early on in the second half, and you could just see the skill, I mean, guys above the rim, long threes, quickness, speed, all the things that made them the best team in the country. Um. But then Santay State just it was like they decided very about the time they got their bench actually got

a tea they got teed up. I don't know who said what, um, but right about that time, I don't know if it was the head coach or who it was that got it, they kind of clicked into gear and every loose ball became theirs, every long rebound became theirs extra possessions, and before you know what, that one seed started to press a little bit towards the end, and UM, huge win for the program. Basically, Alabama cave. Want to pressure yall, y'all cave right. That sounds about

that sounds about they're young, though I was. I basically stayed at the Alabama team hotel and talking that They're like, we're really good, but we're youngy very they don't know how they're gonna respond. And Sanday State's got a bunch of grown, grown men. I think that matters. It does matter at the time. Yeah, well, I'm glad y'all lost. I'm glad your team won it. It's bad because you know, Peter and I got to work out in this morning, and look, I only packed what I packed, so I

wasn't anticipating in Alabama lost. So I got my Alabama gearl on this morning. Literally got some guy from Gonzaga apologizes for me. Had some random guy come up to me, Oh, man, I'm a San Diego State alone and I'm like, you know, I didn't even ask you, come hold you. I loved every minute of it. Keeps asking me about it. I'm just like, you know, she's the only packed what I packed? Man, I'm sorry. It was great. It was I loved every minute. Congrats, Yeah,

congrats Will I will say this much. The Alabama fans, they were awesome. Like during the game, the atmosphere was great, but even after talking to some of them, you know, they were, hey, credit credit to where it's dude, State won that game, how they played. You know, we gotta but the positivity towards that young team. Man. I know some of those guys you're probably be playing in the NBA, but they got a hacker program. We were so proud

of them this year. And I know we're supposed to be talking football, but it's so in basketball right now. We're so proud of them. It was. It was really good. And also Alabama fans they love on the basketball team as much as they can. If that would have been a loss on the football side, it's totally different emotions. That it would not have been all nice and everybody, you know, they would not have that as well. No,

either would coach Saban. Yeah probably. Yeah. So I've had the I've had the pleasure of going in two Super Bowls. I've lost two super Bowls thanks to Peyton Manning. Uh, you won one, you lost one. But we've had the joy of going. I know you won super Bowl fifty six. I hate romanmannow was off, but super Bowl fifty six with the Rams. And three days after winning the Super Bowl you get hired by the Vikings. Yeah. Do you feel like you had enough time to like really enjoy

that championship? No? And and the crazy thing is, you know I can remember it. You know, I officially became the head coach that Wednesday following the game, But I mean I was trying to put together staff, even through the interview process. You know, I didn't want to ever leave anything for my current job that would have left me thinking what if? What if I would have done a better job with the third down pass game plan,

a red zone or whatever it was. So I was all in, But then I'd go home at night, eleven o'clock at night and I'd stay up four or five hours putting together staff zoom calls with potential coaches, just trying to make sure that you know, the Vikings weren't in the playoffs last year, so they're not waiting to do. You know, that's great that you're coaching in the Super Bowl, but you got some responsibilities already. So it was a lot.

But I just remember when I told myself, I got to you guys, remember super Bowl week, it's you know, and we were home in LA. We didn't even go to the team hotel till Friday or Saturday, whatever it was. I just said, about Wednesday of that Super Bowl game week, I was going to put it all away. And about Wednesday, about one o'clock, I was still doing saying, you know it was the phone would ring, and there was never totally kind of brushing it to the side, but I

was able to focus on it. Unbelievable experience to win that game, but yeah, I was. I literally took my son and daughter, my oldest two to the parade and then met my wife and the rest of my family literally an hour from I left the parade about an hour into it and went to kill get on the plane and flew to flew to Minnesota and hadn't been back since to California since you know, basically that day. So it was it was fast, man, it was it was it was it was not your normal. Let's just

put it this way. Other people were enjoying that parade a little bit more than I was. Yeah, I was gonna say, because you know a lot of times, you know, after games, you win. Okay, we got twenty four hours? Yeah, now did you I did. I did go to the super Bowl party, got to spend a lot of time. But before you know, it was just I'll never forget I stayed out. Obviously, you play that game, you go the party. Mister Cronkie put it, put on an unbelievable

super Bowl party, stayed out late. I just remember my phone going off about six thirty or seven o'clock the next morning, and I might have went to bed two hours before that. And it was people in Minnesota like, yeah, we need you to we're trying to get this done or this coaching contract done, or are you good with this? And I was like, and it hit me in that moment, I'm like, this is nobody cares. Nobody cares there. Yeah,

So yeah, I gotta. I saw I listen to another interview you did and you talked about, you know, managing your time. Yeah, and so I'm not great at that. So okay, And you said, as a head coach, you always feels like, man, it's always something to do, somebody's always depending on you, whether it's you know, it's through the organization, it's charitable causes, it's you know, lean doing something for a player, or your coach is making sure

the coordinators everybody's has something going on. So and versus a coordinator, maybe you had a little bit more waiting time for somebody else to tell you or assistant to tell you where you need to be going or something to be doing. So how do you manage that? How do you get to this point or are you still into this learning process or maybe just give us some insight on the difference of being from a coordinator time example,

to now the head coach and now running the whole thing. Yeah, I think the unique thing for me is trying to be the play caller too on offense. So really, although I've got some great coaches, I got a great offensive coordinator in West phillips As the play caller, you're still I feel an obligation to get in front of the unit. Saw. I need to be with Kirk and in the quarterback room. I can't just be the voice that shows up on game day and being his ear and be calling plays.

So you've got to totally submerse yourself in the in the offense with those players, installs in the past, game, run game, you know how we're going to play the game, articulating what it's going to take to win the game, all those things you do as a coordinator. But I just tried to do a lot of those things on

a whole scale with our entire team. Um, you know, I learned from some really good coaches the previous team I was with and with the Rams, being around Sean and and really the coolest thing you did for me was said, Hey, you're gonna be a head coach, why don't you just kind of tag along on a lot of this stuff. So I watched him go really what it felt like at times and you know, even times where I shouldn't even have been in his office, Uh, hey, why don't you come in. We'll talk about you know,

the OTA schedule or something crazy. And you're like, man, this guy truly is pouring into me to develop me to become a head coach in this league. So, um, you know, too much as given, much as required. So I tried to soak it all in. Um, he's one of my closest friends. But what what that really let me see is he's a play caller that tries to be totally all in on his team. Culture matters, all those things. You can say a lot of things, yeah,

but then you got to back it up. And the ultimate enemy to all that is time when you're trying to do everything. Um. I also have you know, we had our fourth child and during the season, about week eight, on a Friday, what the heck, let's just go play the Commanders in Washington. And I left my wife at the hospital and luckily her mom was in town. You know, she'd had the baby. Every baby was healthy, wife was healthy. And I went back and went to walk through, then

got on the plane and flew to Washington. So didn't it crazy that we do that? Nobody? Actually a lot of people gave me a you know, I thought people would be like, man, that what a what a coach going to But I took some pretty good, you know, pushback from like our our female fan base of Hey, you don't know what it's like to have a child. You're there supporting, you know, basically being a cheerleader for it. But you know, we're the ones that I can't believe

you left her at the hospital. I there were some people that genuinely were not happy that I left. I got the flip side of it, though, because we had played a game my wife was she was pregnant, and someone asked the question, um, if she goes in labor, you know, are you gonna go? And I was like, yeah, I'll just miss the game. And then everyone was like, oh, why would you do that? Do you want to get

paid for sixteen games? You want to work sixteen days a year and all this sold of stuff like so it's kind of like, damned if you do, damned if you don't know that. It was one of those questions. I was just like, whatever, I'm well, well, I missed my first child's birth because she came on a playoff game and you know I was in San Francisco. She wasn't supposed to go, she was late. Yeah. Then next you know, I get a miss like six phone calls and you look up You're like, oh, she's going too late.

She's like, I'm gonna hold it. I'm like, okay, baby, I appreciate that. Appreciate that. And it was like, nah, the second quarter is all good. But when did you When did you first get the first text you actually saw? Was it before they know? It's after the game? It

was after? It was after I'd had no idea. What would you have done if you if you had got that, Like you come in pregame the last twenty minutes, you come in from that, what would you have done would probably would have been emotional and like I've probably been a little shook. You know, you want to be angry, you want to be in this zone. Yea, And all of a sudden you get like the picture of your

first child. It's just that, it's gotta it's got to shake you a little bit out of There's no way you can't be thinking about that and then try and go out there in the before the biggest playoff game of year, you know at the time, but it was it was fireworks. It was a great game. But talking about a day of emotions though, I mean, you're playing

a playoff game. Actually, you know your daughter's born. You lose the playoff game after you put so much into it, a nail biter, and then you know everybody else is sad, and then you're kind of happy. I remember that game, yeah against US No, that was against San Francisco. Ran the quarterback s week. We blitzed from his right side the whole game and all of a sudden they ran quarterback sweep away. You are that that's part of your inventory, right, No, yeah,

that's you call former film. Well I can remember some of the players in that game. It was who they have crab Tree and yes, oh yeah, and the tight end um burning Davis and so it was a it was a great game. I mean we had five turnovers? Was that when? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that was it. Yeah. That was a Tony Montana game where they they played it was rocket. It was a great atmosphere. It was electric, I'm telling and that's saying something because you played in

one of the best for a long time than man. Yeah, that was one of the best atmospheres I've ever been a part of. So um, who would you say? So you're you're talking about Sean's when your one of your closest friends and I know two thousand and eight, you got drafted by the Patriots. Josh mcdonwalds. He was the o C at the time. Who would you say? A year? And I'm sure you learned a lot from him, just kind of you know him and Tom and all that.

Who would you say you're I think a lot of coaches they talk about being a coaching tree, like who would you say you're a disciple of? Or who's a part of? Like just tread them come from, honestly, So much of what we do offensively and everything was kind of shaped and in LA and what we tried to do. So the first name is always Sean McVeigh just because he did so much for me as a coach. Yeah, it was really cool because I had been friends with Sean uh or about my entire coaching career since about

twenty fifteen. But really kind of he gets the head job in LA, I go to what he's instrumental in me getting the quarterback job in Washington as he's kind of leaving town and I'll just never forget it. Being like he told me at the time, He's like, we'll circle back and I'm gonna get a chance to hire you. And then three years later, he's bringing me out there to be the coordinator, you know, a huge moment in

my career. And then also ultimately we you know, make the trade for Matthew Stafford, we win a super Bowl, and then I become a head coach. So I owe so much to Sean from that standpoint. But you talk about it, I I don't know if you can be a player and then be part of a coaching tree of somebody else. But I learned a ton from coach Belichick. You know, last year, I got to sit right next to him at these owners meetings for three days and it's like, you know, that's coach next to me. And

was that a little weird? At first? It was, and then he had a real way of kind of breaking the ice and it, Yeah, so he made it. He made it not weird at all, and we actually had some great football discussions and kind of and then that carried over it and when we played him on Thanksgiving this year and spend some time with him after the game, I think the world to him. But Josh McDaniel's Billy O'Brien,

Bill Belichick. I mean, there's unbelievable coaches that I was, you know, around being around Nick Kissario in the personnel department, I just learned so much and had no business learning it at the time. I was so far I mean, talk about being thrown in the deep end of the pool. But I still look back on some of those notebooks from team meetings or some of those offensive installs, and just it's like somebody teaching you things that you had no idea right at the time. You're writing things down

and you're really not absorbing it. And then all of a sudden, you get this job and you start being responsible for a whole heck of a lot more than than really just being a backup quarterback on a team. You go back through some of these notes and it's gold right there, you know, on the pages of that notebook. So I have to give so much credit. And then

everybody in between. I mean, you guys, know, some of the best moments, some of the best playing career moments you had, might have been on some of the worst teams you played for. You know, where you're personally individually might have been at your best. I still tell people some of the best coaching jobs that I've ever done, we might have won four or five games my first year in Cleveland doing it. But shoot, I you know, I felt like I I coached my tail off. Yeah.

So that's what you learn about this is if if you get and it Sometimes people could say it's a cliche, but if you get wrapped up and be and being defined by the results of what we do, whether you're a player or coach, h you know, it can really hold you back from reaching your true potential. I tend to focus as much as possible on the process of how I do things, why I do things, and then can I make the people around me better at doing what they love to do and and just being a

you know, a positive part of their day. So when they walk through the I said it day one, year one in Minnesota, and I think we accomplish it. But I wanted our players to walk through the door and feel like shoot leaving at the end of the day. This was a positive thing for me today. I got better today. I like being around my teammates. I like being a part of this and it was really important for us to do that. And now we got to

build on it. I remember RIVERI used to always say that he was like after practice was over, he would always say, you don't have to rush out of here to go home. Now, Yeah, y'all, y'all can stay because I think he just wanted us to be around each other and just be locker room guys. And that I think it's that that says a lot. It does if you like your space, you want to be there, and you care about the people around you. And I think last year was such a great example of you guys

really hitting it running. And could you talk about maybe the success that you guys had last year maybe what some of the things that you saw early that you knew these guys were going to be successful, and then also where does this team in the organization, what does

it look like going forward? Yeah, I think one of the cool things for us was I just remember coming in and guys like Eric Kendricks, Harrison Smith, Dalvin Cook, guys that have been staples Adam feeling of the Minnesota Vikings organization and have played a lot of football, won a lot of games. I mean, Harrison's yeah, I'm bloom and we're lucky enough to be able to bring him back, which was huge for me to be able to keep him, um, you know, on our team and as part of our

leadership with that sea on his chest. But I knew we had a good makeup of great leaders that have been around, you know, a certain way of doing things for a long time, and we're going to come in and right wrong or indifferent. We were gonna just be different.

And I told our team this, I believe so much in the why behind how we're going to do things because I just got done winning a Super Bowl, doing it that way and feeling a certain kind of way every day, and feeling the joy of even in our league, when the circumstances and the stress can sometimes overtake organizations and be their demise in LA we just found a

way to enjoy even when we dealt with adversity. It wasn't all just smiles and candy canes and and it was it was real tangible human being interaction, dealing with adversity and overcoming winning a super you know, all of those things to reach the pinnacle of our profession together.

So nobody can tell me nothing about there's another way to do it, because this is the way I know, And I think you guys are gonna enjoy this, and I think you guys are gonna want to do it this way, and We'll worry about the results when they come. And you know, I think in those close games, those end of game moments, we relied on that stuff. So anybody that says it's just kind of cliche coach speak stuff when stuff got really hard, the best version of our team came out, they do. I think that that.

You know, we weren't always perfect. There's a thousand things that I need to do better, and then I'm working on to try to be better for our organization. But we relied on that and it was really cool to kind of see how it happened in year one and just kind of moving forward. It's easy to do in year one, right, It's easy to come in and be different and kind of sell something off a win in a super Bowl, and hey, we win thirteen games, and

this is why I got all the answers. Well, now you got to go, you know, not only duplicate that in year two, but now you're playing a first place schedule.

Now you're playing now you're kind of you're not sneaking up on anybody anymore, and you know, we're gonna have to be at our best to be more consistent with how we do it, play a better brand of football, rely on all those things and improve from a standpoint of our technique fundamentals, and then make sure we understand the culture thing doesn't just just because you achieved it in year one. It's a daily thing. Culture is people.

Culture is interaction. Culture is never missing a you a moment to say, hey, great job, Hey, you know we got to get better here. That accountability thing, a new thing for me, is that personal responsibility. Like I think accountability is you guys feeling like I need to be accountable to you, But how about me being accountable to myself. That's that personal responsibility that I think is going to be huge for our team and the growth of the

next generation of Minnesota Vikings leadership. We got some of the best players that they're positioning football, justin Jefferson, Christian Dai, Saw, Brian O'Neill. I mean, we've got TJ. Hawkinson, We've got some unbelievably young, talented player with so much potential to be great in our league. But I want them to understand it's time for them to wear the sea on

their chests. It's time for them to take the next step and help be a main reason why we sustained the great culture that so many great vikings helped us build in your one. Yeah, so the name of this podcast is the NFL Player's Second Acts Podcast. Yeah, we played, we retired. We did something else in our in our second act. You played retired. You got into broadcasting. Yeah, did that for a brief stint. Yeah, and I'm sure you enjoyed it. What made you? What made you want

to get out of the broadcasting and get back into coaching. Well, I just finished up. I was doing some kind of combine training on the side, you know, the quarterback guru circuit, thinking you got all the answers. There's no scoreboard in next game, so that's one of the All you need is one to hit them. Yeah. I watched Jordan palm over this last Year's awesome. But he's great good. I mean, once he hit Josh Allen, He's like, bro, I got it,

I got the book. It is so convenient to be able to put that, and he's really good at what he does. But it is so convenient to look up at that scoreboard at whatever field that they're playing at, and that thing is off. There's no there's no running tale, there's no you know, two unbelievable defensive players that are tasked with taking away you know, it's just about footwork.

It's about throwing a pretty spiral. Look at this cool drill you can come up with that as I've been down that road, and it is building each one I give. I give guys a hard time because I'm jealous of those guys because in March and April, they're at some field for two hours, and then they're they're at home with their kids and on the beach and doing all the things that they might even be having. The workout on the beach. All right, but I did that. I

did some college football broadcasting. Loved it, I actually really did. I loved being able to do production meetings and meet coaches and players. I did some games up at Army UM, you know, I did six games up there, and meeting some of the cadets and just totally different type of human being than than what I felt like I deserved to be spending a lot of time. These guys are unbelievable. But then Mike Petton called and he said, you know, you know, Mike had tried to get me to come

work for him before. Rex Ryan had tried to get me to come work for him before just never felt right. I felt like I had kind of owed it to my wife to let her have a life, and you know, we had moved around so much with me as a player that I wanted her to have a home base. But then Mike Petton called and offered me the quarterback coaching job. And that was not something that I felt entitled to by any stretch, but just felt like it was an unbelievable opportunity and I was ready to at

that point. The timing worked out and I've been doing this everything and how long before? How long did you do broadcast? Two years? Two years? I got done, played in twenty twelve, kind of thirteen fourteen, I did the broadcasting stuff and then quarterback and yeah, being room man, it's my it's on my business card. But uh but yeah, and then fifteen started coaching and I had done and did a training camp internship. Got a chance to be around Kyle Shanahan in twenty fourteen was awesome. Um, so

I was. I made sure I made sure I stayed around it and and and really watched a bunch of tape, tried to that That's really where I liked doing the draft stuff is on the grass stuff was fun. But I got to spend you know, time with Marcus Murio to Jameis Winston, you know, Johnny Manziel coming out that year. Um, just doing ball in a in a quarterback almost like a quarterback meeting room, watching tape and UM, you know,

just trying to teach and and and learn myself. You know how to always say learning the why, Why are you making these decisions? Why are you doing this? And when you ask that question, it is amazing the types of things you'll hear people say, because it's never ever what you think. I'm telling you. The why matters. Yea, and most I've just learned if you coach it and you believe it, and you give these players the why they're so art and they're so committed to being great

at what they do. I mean, you guys are two great examples of it. You guys. Were you mentioned Ron Rivera already? I'm sure you guys could say coach after coach that when you close your eyes, you think back to that dB meeting when they told you why you're going to play this trap coverage a certain way, or why you had to you know, punch at the ball

the way you did. I'm sure that was natural in a lot of ways, but somebody took somebody told you why to you know why and how to do it at some point, and then you took it because you're a great player and make your own When I tell Justin Jefferson, this is how I want you to run this route because this and this reason and this is why it's important, and then he goes and makes it his own at a world class level, That to me

is coaching in our league. Coaching is not waving your finger at somebody telling them rules and this is why you can't do things, and this is why my way is the only way. No, it's as truly a collaboration with world class athletes and guys that just want to be pointing in the right direction. Tell them where to go, and I promise you they're going to do everything they can to go get it done. Now, you may have just answered this question like literally with that answer that

you just gave. That was beautiful, because a lot of people don't understand that the understanding that what coaches see that really lights them up or gives them joy. And you kind of just said that what gives you joy when you see these things and your special athletes. But what I want to know though, is that so many people talk about how smart you are, your IQ, your game, prep all the things that you do before the game that leads up to this game. And so could you

give us an example of something that. Man, this was something that I had dialed in and it showed up in the game and it was beautiful, Like, just give us that aha moment at any point in time last year that you saw that kind of comes to mind. I see it in your eyes. Well only because I was just thinking about it off of that previous kind of talking about justin Jefferson, And there was an example.

You know, We're playing the Patriots on a short week Thursday night, Thanksgiving, and you know people had started for the really for the first time in his career, doubling them. I mean, you guys played against right it was hey cover one, double eighteen wherever he is. So we're playing the Patriots, I know the background of that defensive philosophy and the coach Belichick. I could literally envision him standing up in front of the team saying, we may lose

the game. A couple of ways but I can tell you how it's not gonna happen. We're not gonna let eighteen beat us. So I vividly remember telling Justin in a in a past install, Hey, they're gonna double team you, but I think it's gonna come if we put you in the slot. I think it's gonna come from the nickel outside leverage and the safety being inside leverage from depth. I call it at east west double. You know, doesn't

always have to be side by side. But I told Justin, I said, if you can just vertically beat the nickel and then put your foot in the ground and vertically you kind of treat it as a two part process. You're just running an inside fade, but beat the nickel with your release, get up on the toes of the safety, and then stick him. I promise you double team or not,

you're gonna catch. You're gonna go get this ball. And I got Cousins looking at me like it's gonna be double and you want him just run a fade to go ball, And I was like, yes, I know, you guys think I'm crazy. But and then it and then I kind of saw how they were playing early on in the court in the first court and I went over and I told him, I said, I'm calling this play. Don't think I'm crazy. You're gonna it's gonna hit. It's

gonna hit. And it literally like like it was almost like it fell into place in the in that that exact moment and it hit, and uh, you know, I'm you know, I'm over there. Justin comes running off and it was like five plays later in the drive and he comes running off and I'm like, I told you about that. I told you we were gonna beat that double and he's like, what are you talking? Are you talking about that play five? I'm like, oh, what wasn't as big deal to you as it was, but this was.

I mean, but that was one of those moments and I was just thinking about it before you didn't ask a question. But stuff like that is when it kind of I think you get it. He buys you some credibility right with the guys, and and shoot, they'll tell you for every one time like that, there's right three times where I say some crazy stuff that that doesn't end up panning out, or maybe the exact opposite thing happens.

But you get those wins, you'll you'll take them every time you can get them, and coming from a safety that is literally the worst route to get and try and stop in the double because it's the splitter right down the middle. Oh yeah, you got everything inside and inside corners the nickels you need to outside. And next you know, I'm sitting waiting on him to stop, and he just runs slapped by everybody. And it's like the one that nobody ever talks about. But it's the one,

the easiest double team beating. Yeah, I love it. No, it's awesome. Thirteen and four rookie season. Right, you tied with two other coaches in their rookie season going thirteen and four? Do you know who those rookie coaches are? Off the top of your head, you give you one clue. One is coaching now, one is still coaching now? Is it Matt? He's one? Yeah, I knew Matt. And then the other one's gotta be so this other coach is still coaching but in college. That's the only clare I'll

give you. Really was he? Goofy? You got the ass on yo sheet? Why are you looking at me like that? I'm playing it up for the camera. Okay, we gotta be Jim Harball, right, Oh yeah, yeah, because I was thinking Sam fran wash was at that time. Because I know there's there there was some other the r PR guys that had given me a list at one point this year. Um, and I remember seeing a lot of the folks that had done it. You know, they also had something else in common. They had pretty good quarterbacks,

just like I got it too in Kirk. I know Steve Young might have been somebody's quarterback at one point or you know. But but as far as those guys, Aaron Rodgers, and then I think, uh, you know, Jim had Alex Smith, Who's I got to coach in Washington, somebody that I absolutely love, love love Alex Smith so big time. So having the privilege and honor to shadow Sean, Yeah, being in all those meetings and him kind of mentoring you along the way and trying to prepare you to

become a head coach. Was there was there one thing that happened this past season that you weren't prepared for or didn't expect or just kind of shocked you. That's a good question. That is a good question. Um. I would probably say there were some real personal moments or some players wad a player lose his dad in training camp. We had to coach lose his dad in training camp.

There was just some moments throughout the year, either with players having you know, having their their girlfriends or wives have babies, and you know that just these young players just those were the things that, yeah, because you get so wrapped up in just our game and sometimes it can feel like the most important thing in the world, nothing else matters, and then there's like a real life moment that happened and you're just nothing. You're just nothing

more than a support system. You're just you know, hey, football doesn't matter, you know, come talk to me about you know, open up and talk to me like like you would a brother or uncle or a father or whatever. Because some of these guys, if you're not going to

do that for him, who will. Yeah, And I just found like those moments kind of you hate to say that you needed some of those moments to truly grasp the importance of your role outside of just winning and losing, but those would probably be I mean, some of the football things that came up learning moments for me, but those were those are the moments I can remember vividly how I felt, you know, both during and then after, and then the response from the player or coach. You

know where there's nobody else. You're the head coach. You know they're looking for guidance and support and are you willing to give it to him in those in those critical moments, Kevin, do you think being a former player has given you an advantage for being a coach in some like you know what it's like like dealing with the same example you're talking about, Like you've been in that locker room where your guy's hurting. Yeah, and you don't just look at us like I'm just focused on

XS and OS. I think it's two things. I think yes. For a standpoint of that of knowing the I just remember as a player, there were some days where nobody asked me how I was doing, you know, nobody cared how I was point. So there's never a moment where if I'm walking by a player down our beautiful hallways, in our buildings, brand new building that we have, whatever it is, I'm never gonna not look you in the

eye and say how you doing, man? Yeah, And you may not always tell me any coach, it's actually funny ask I'm not doing well, you may not, but I'm going to ask you enough that if I ask you a ten times and one time I feel like that was different than the other nine times, probably not going to be the last time you hear me ask about you.

So it's like, I think that's important. And then the other thing is I do I do believe very very strongly in the sports performance and can we run an organization from a standpoint of I believe players are inherently if you get the right kind of guys. I believe they're tough. Yeah, I believe they're smart. I believe they care about doing what it takes to win. But can we have a team that when that three and a half hour window happens on Sunday, our players are fresher

than the other side. Can we put together a schedule where we're tactically mentally prepared to play a game. But we got a little bit more life in us, We got a little bit more juice in us because of how we do things both in training, camp, game week walk throughs, how we travel, you know, where we put the players on the plane when we travel, Like all that stuff matters, like what we feed them, what we

you know, if we're gonna cut any corners. It's not going to be something that the players will feel like, I promise you that. And we're lucky. We're lucky to have the support we do from our owners and our organization and the great people that are around our players. And I think they felt it. So now it's you know, I think that's important that we not only continue to be one of the you know, one of the best in the league, yet let's go try to be the best.

And I believe you guys were voted a number one of the first time they had this the NFLPA thing, which it's great for me to talk about. For the players, I was appla, I was going up. That should be the fact that that was the first time this stat or this uh and for all those that don't know, they had a ranking that said the best player experience between each organization ranked upon like food, facility, trainers, the whole nine and the whole gambit of what it really

intentils he's across the board. It was it was that's in presive on y'all, and that's where it made me overlook the cold. But honestly think though, like it's easy for me to sit up here and try to take the credit. But think about like you guys can probably I could say right now, you know who's your favorite equipment guy? Yeah, and Tammember, who was your you know you had a trainer that you always went to, thanks, Yeah, I mean you had your strength coach that got you rusty.

I mean like, so, the fact is it kind of came together in a really cool way where I just wanted to empower those people. But this is the first time. That's why I told d and some of those guys with the NFLP, I said, I love the fact that you did it. I'm sure some organizations don't, but I just like the fact that, shoot, I'm giving game balls out.

You know, I'm having game balls made for our training staff and our you know, people that coordinate our travel logistics, and you know, they it's a lot, it's a lot of work that they don't get credit. Nobody would ever know for people to get credit. And I've had former players that have gotten into that side of the business that are now coaching, and they said it was a

little bit tougher for them. Like non player coaches sometimes look at players coaches, it's like former player coaches that these guys come in they think they know this right. They it's a little bit tougher for the former players to all of a sudden kind of get the same credit early as the guys that were not, just because maybe it's a different grind. I don't know. Maybe you could speak on that a little bit if you didn't seem like you've had to go through that as much,

but you do understand it. Yeah, I think I tell people a lot of times like that, maybe say, hey, you were never a quality control coach. I would challenge them to go see me years three, four and five with the New York Jets, drawing cards, running the scout team, you know, breaking down tape for Sanchez, like writing up the third down. Like I was doing a lot of the jobs that I now ask a assistant quarterback coach

to do. I was doing those things while I was playing. Why, Because I learned very early on, maybe in New England or when I got to New York with Rex, you got to do something to provide value. Yeah, it's really hard to provide value as a third quarterback. It was so hard that they eventually got rid of it altogether. With that emergency there. Maybe it's coming back. We're gonna talk about that this week. But but I say that,

you know, I feel like that's one thing. But really, in its purest form, a good co is a leader, a teacher, and a motivator. And if you've got if you feel like there's something positive, which I'm sure both of you guys probably do from your playing career that can help you be a better leader, teacher, and motivator, by all means you're gonna be a really good coach.

You're gonna have to work really hard at him because to do it the right way, it takes a lot of time and sacrifice to do it the right way, because at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is if you're a position coach, is your position group prepared as best as they possibly can be to go do their jobs? And are you? I coached Josh McCown who was older than me. I coached him my first year coaching, and at the end of the year, I said, Josh, how did you think I did? He's like,

you made me a better player. I think you did a great job. And to this very day, I'm still really close with him, and I'll he just got into coach. Just got in there and I tried to hire him a year ago and I love him to death. But he's gonna be a great coach because he literally could sit there and say, you made me a better player. Regardless of what you're you know, how many game balls you got at home or how many years you've been doing it. You have one role. How well can you

you know, execute that role for somebody else? First, that's what coaching is. If you're a servant mindset to being a coach and you have a background of being able to absorb some information. In the end, you still got to, you know, provide the path to guys having success on the grass. But there's a whole lot that goes into it. Can you teach? Can you lead? Can you motivate? And you're gonna be just fine. I like that. Teach to lead, motivate. I love it, Kevin. Last question before we get you

out of here. This is a question we asked everybody that comes on our podcast. Yes, who is on your personal Mount rushmore? Someone that that? And I know this is really glass poured into you. You've already mentioned twelve people. Yeah, you got to pick four. There's only four spots on this mountain. Well, I think this is life, not just sports. Not Yeah, no, I think you know, my grandfather, uh, for sure would be on there. My dad would be

on there. Tell me why your grandfather my grandfather because he just you know, was an unbelievable leader of just human beings and was a great and just had such a didn't come from a whole lot and just kind of built an incredible life for himself. And then I got really close with him. My grandma passed away when I was in college, and he actually would drive around the country to my games and an RV and be at the games. And then I actually trained for the

draft out here in Arizona. This is where he lives and literally spent I lived with him, spent time, So we just became really close. But he's always, uh you know, just been somebody that I've looked up to. My dad was the same way. My dad was in the FBI for twenty five years, worked his absolute tail off. Talk

about personal sacrifice for your family. And so those those two for sure, and they get their own their own wing of of Mount Rushmore, I guess, but know Sean McVay would be on there, just because of his direct impact on me for sure. And then shoot man one more, I would probably say I would probably say Bill Belichick just because just I watched. I don't know if anybody loves football as much as he does. And just his impact on a team and just so many different human beings.

I don't think I could be a head coach in this league without having been a player for him, If that makes any sense. That is an ultimate compliment. Yeah, I get it. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah, his mannerisms, the everything, just and his ability, like everybody has this perception to him and it's real. But then there's also the time walking down the hallway where he pulls you aside and says, hey, no, this is what you're doing well, this is what you could do better,

and this is how you should do it. Go go do those things, and and just his care of every single player on his roster, how you can help the team win, Put the team first. You know, all the things that makes up day, what it means to play for him. The man doesn't miss anything. He sees everything.

He's at all, he sees and has respect for you know, just some of the things he even this year, it kind of cemented that this year text messages I received from him after a big win we beat Buffalo or we come back from thirty three down against the Colts and win, like he was always just acknowledging those things as accomplishments. That's cool because people have that perception of because he's just so. He has that stoic look of just seriousness all the time. But you big taty bear

deep down the side. That's cool. That's real cool. Yeah, for sure, you're man. You might be a coach now. Man. Appreciate that. We both would be really good coaches. If you ever want to get into it, man, you know where to find me. We'll do well in that top two facility up in Minnesota. Right, that's right, Kevin Man, Thank you, man, appreciate it. Yeah, appreciate you. Yes, thank you.

Right there, you just heard Kevin O'Connell, head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, really giving him some insight on his whole career path from playing to all of a sudden now being the man over one of the best seasons for a first year coach. Really, I don't really like him, but I like him now though, Like, how can you

not like him? And the success that he's had. Like I'm madd he's in the NFC North, but I'm don't hate me for saying this Bears fans, but I'm kind of wanting him to succeed a little bit because after that that little interview we had, like I like the guy, it seems like you're still struggling to say you even like him, Like I am. I don't want to get crucified, but I like what he's doing in Minnesota. You know what I'm saying. But here's here's a here's a counter

move of that. I love what Bears Jim Ryan Poles has done this offseason and to hear more about what he's doing now and how he got his role check him out in this interview. We got a special guest, this next guy. He's a part of the Bears organization. He spent thirteen years with the Kansas City Chiefs in various roles and now he is currently the Chicago Bears. GM Please welcome to the podcast, mister Ryan Poles. Welcome, Welcome to the show. Brother, Thanks for blessing us with

your presence. Now, you have been extremely busy this offseason and just the guy one being a former player on the team, and just all the bugs around Chicago and just around the league. Everybody is loving what you and the rest of the organization are doing with the pick, trading it, getting rid of it and getting more draft picks, all the signings and like the city is on fire right now. DJ Moore aspect, I got to hear it. How do you pour that up? Because that was how do? Yeah?

So how do how does how does a GM negotiation for another GM? How does like that negotiation go? Yeah, it's just it's conversation like we're having right here. Um. Obviously, you do your homework of what teams you know are looking to move up, and you start looking at the roster. You look at you know, the picks now and in the future, and you start brainstone. You put together different sequences that make sense. You know for the Chicago Bears. You just have to find out if it's it makes

sense for them, right. So you go back and forth and have those conversations that go over a couple of weeks and there are some non negotiables that you say, well, I need to have this in the package, okay, and um and Dj, was that for us? Okay? We wanted to add more playmakers to this roster. We want to player that can really help Justin be successful. And um, so that's kind and we stuck with and we went

hard on that and it worked out. I got to know this because all right, going through like player contracts, you know, trade trade deals, I always think it's like some kind of sliding slick to the game, right because everybody's talking about Lamar Jackson needing the agent to do his deal, Like do you teams ever lead out with their best deal? Like what's the negotiation process? Or do I give you the C deal then wait on your

B deal? Then already I'll give you. Then we work our way up to the A and then we get then get it all done. Yeah. Really, for any negotiation that I've been a part of, even from my time in Kansas City to now, you know, both sides start to their most favorable you know set okay, okay, and then you work in from there. Okay. So that's kind of how it goes. So nobody just shows their hand earlier, like Okay, this is exactly what I want. Let's just know.

So you must be good at like getting cars, right, I'm sure you can trying to go when you're trying to go get a car or buy a house, It's like, look, man, I'm a gem of a billion dollar corporation. I know I can get the best thing. Yeah, Like that's that's that's awesome. So you spent thirteen years with various titles and roles in Kansas City. Yeah, being there for thirteen years, Like, how did that prepare you to be the GM of Chicago Bears a day? Like did you shadow people? Did

you do internships? Did you shadow the gym or the assistant gem? Like how did you How did you get into that role versus what most players do. They just kind of get into coaching and then they might make that transition into being a gem. Yeah, you almost have to take one more step back. After I got cut from Chicago, you know, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Almost took a marketing job, and then I got a call from a friend at Boston College and said, Hey, you want to come down

to be a GA. So I said, yeah, absolutely, you know because at that point that's all you know is football, and you love it. You're passionate about it. So you jump in the recruiting part of it, which to me was by far the best thing I could have ever done. So you're a recruiter at Boston, Yeah, okay, yeah, and what you learn is all the things in the office that you don't know when you're playing. So there's an example and I laugh about all the time. A recruiting coordinator.

It's like, all right, we gotta put these packets together. So this is before the machines stapled the paper for you, So you had a staple them all. I'm just coming in from from getting cut and I'm knocking them out, just getting it done as fast as I can. Stable staple, staple, staple. Put them all on my guy's desk, go work out. I come back and they're taped all over the office with a red circle around the staple and said, WTF.

And I'm like, what did I do wrong? So I'm looking at it, and he was like, the staples should be paralleled at the top on every single one. It's a small job, but be detailed about it. So those little detail things from stapling to you know, run and get coffee, watching tape, using the computer, like all of those little things you start to kind of sharpen that blade early to know what office like is office of

life is all about. And then getting to Kansas City and really just starting at the bottom as a scouting assistant. And again it's it's hard work. You know, no one really talks to you. You're grinding out take for people. No one's saying thank you. You know, it's it's tough. But through that you get a rhythm of the league like there used to be. Now it's like electronic boards. Back then it was like magnets. Yeah, so you would have to do And then on the board you do

the whole roster. Everyone's roster in the entire league, so thirty one other teams, and through the season you start moving the tags around and then there's an ir bucket at the bottom. You see there's three or four teams that get the injury bug every single year because you're moving all these tags down. How do they replace those players? They're going there's trades, they're going to the emergency board.

So you get the flow of the league doing all these jobs that a hard work and no one's you know, patting me on the back floor, but you get a feel for what you're doing. And then through that just getting time in college scouting going out on the road to pro scouting, getting a feel for the locker room. So those things kind of morph and just allow allowing me to create, like all these little buckets so that when it's time to go, there were for me, there

were very few blind spots, right. So that's been my path. I've been blessed too with the different jobs I've had to do, different types of gems that I worked for that allowed me to do what I'm doing. Ryan, that's I love that story. And you drew a great picture for those that don't know. He's talking about the tags. And so each player where like blue is mean you like top five, Yeah, red is mean like you're a

top tier pro Bowl player. Green is your adequate starter. Ye. Then you had gray you're like a sub guy or whatever, special teams whatever. I was a blue guy. You probably were blue blue guy too. I was probably a red. Now you're blue. I'm gonna give it to you. You're

blue gray here. It's just it's hilarious though to see, like because your path in your journey, because I wanted to know, how do you go from being a former player to all the sudden be an office in the office side and being a GM where you're the biggest guy in the office area, because most office guys are not big, they're not former players like you they have. These guys don't even have experience in football on the

field wise. And to be in that moment to all of a sudden, I see how comfortable are because you've done it all and so doing that and having that experience, maybe you could just tell us, you know, how you were. So were you uncomfortable at first? Were you not confident? And playing football? Does it actually help you at all? Yeah? So there's I'll break that down on the two things.

Being uncomfortable absolutely, because there's parts. I mean, you're writing reports, thousands of reports, and my first GM that I worked for, Scott Pioli, getting a meeting, reading my report, my heads down and not really projecting. And after I get done with report, takes a little break and said, hey, can I talk to my office. I'm like, I'm about to get in trouble. So he goes, Listen, he goes, I swear to you said this. He's like, someday you're gonna

be a gym. He say, there's something about you, he goes, But when you read your report, even if you have to stand up, stand up, project and talk with confidence so people believe in what you're talking about and what the report says. So just those little things are huge, but they're uncomfortable at first because you can talk ball right, but can you write a report and do it the right way? I'm either talking about grammar or all the like the little things that you can get away from. Yes.

And then in terms of having the background, this is like, this is real, especially in today's game. And I got a couple of guys from Ian Cunningham was on my staff. He played Jeff King's one of our directors of player personnel. He played six seven years at the tight end. The coolest thing is they always bring you back to just remembering what the locker room feels when you make certain moves. Yeah, they're always because even I'll get away from it because

it'll be more transactional. And one of my guys that hold up, like, if we bring this guy into the building into locker room, how does that make everybody else feel? Yeah, if you take this guy out, what is that going to do to your culture? How are we going to replace that? We don't think enough people realize that, you know, not even it's all about the locker room. Is this guy, we man, he's got a lot of personality. Is that gonna make this guy feel uncomfortable? Is he gonna be

a cancer to the team. Like, I don't think fans really get that because oh, you should just go get this player. He's like they think of it like it's not it's not fantasy football people. I mean, we made some trades early and we made sure just from our conversations. Matt and I went and grabbed all the leaders and had a conversation said, this is why we're doing what we're doing. It's uncomfortable, but we want to let you

know how that is. I don't think people will talk about like dj DJ is moving out of one house into another in Carolina. He gets traded, that's your life just got shaken up, right, and you got a kid, you got another kid on the way, you got you know, your girl. Like, there's a lot that goes into it. So from an organization, we got to be there for him and they communicate properly and help him in that transition.

So having that, at least being in the locker room, I didn't play the level you guys did but you got to have that feel of how all of these things affect your locker room, and to me, it goes a long ways and the guys appreciate that. So so being the gem now and you kind of got your feet underneath you and you're you're moving things along. Um As a player, we all have that welcome to the NFL moment, like the first hit you took or something like that that kind of really shook you as a gem.

What was your welcome to the NFL moment? I am a gem? Holy you know what that just happened? Like something like you didn't see, like something that just like took took the wind out of you. Yeah. I've talked about this openly, so no secret book. The first fridgen s I I had was a failed physical and I had this, I mean, it's got It was good money. It was a player that was going to help us

in our culture, can affect, you know, our defense. And to sit in a car and have that conversation wanted to get ripped by his agent, but also to sit in a car and explain to him why I had to do it. I had to do that crushed me

because I know that guy celebrated with his family. I know he flew up ready to go wheady to do his press conference, and I gotta that's part of this thing that's harder as a gym two is you can feel the locker room, but there is a business side of this thing where you gotta do right by the business. And it wasn't right and I had to I had to make that call, and that that hurt me like that was that was a tough and that was one of the first big things I did when I walked

in the door. Yeah, so that was my welcome to the league moment as a generalman. Now, Ryan, I gotta know this because I've seen you the last couple of days with your family. So clearly your family man, your son, your daughter or your wife. You guys are all hanging out all the time. Do they take a lot of pride? How often do you see them celebrate when you make this big trade to pull off the one that you did that everybody's talking about trading the way trading back down.

Do you guys like celebrated at the house if you're doing like chess, pops, like what's going on? Champagne, Like what's going on? I told you score the win and touchdown game, like everybody's excited for you. How is that? Could you wrap my head around that as the gem? Because now I got my suit and tie one, like, they still celebrate the same, so I gotta So my wife was a former athlete, so it's on to the next thing. So there's we celebrate. I mean we're half

you get a feel for it. But it's like, you gotta go back to work, like this is move on to the next. I'm about your wife, man, keep you real. Yeah good, but yeah, she's you know, suld remind me of this free agency. We gotta win games, like that's what it's about. So it's true. So does your son play football? He does? And how cool is it for your son to see you? Like my dad is the gym and I know he's right there in the corner, but like, is it is it kind of cool? It's like, yo,

my dad is the gem of the Bears. Yeah you know what I'm saying, Like, how how cool is that experience for for your son to see you in the position that you're in right now? Yeah? I love it. Um, you know, I think the biggest thing for me though, is just like the work ethic, the time that you gotta put in. You know, he knows there's shoot, four times five times of the week. You know, I'm getting home and he's already sleeping. M So he gets how

much time and effort that goes into this. But also he knows, you know, the rewards that come with doing a good job and cool thing about him and he's he's been on the Super Bowl parade. He knows what I'm trying to go for. Yeah, and he knows what it means to our family. So what advice would you give to a player that has been released recently retired? Ye? What advice would you give to that player who wants to go in the route that you went as far as not wanting to be a coach, but yo, I

want to be a GM one day. I want to run a team like my former GM. Like what it tells me? Yeah, what advice do you give? Yeah? So I would say there's two routes to really dip a toe in and see if it's for you. M to me, it's an internship with one of the teams or to be a yeah at the college level, those two things for me and what I've seen to do for folks that have come through both in Kansas City and our facility.

Now you get an idea of what it's all about the time that it takes, what the lifestyles like, because you don't really know. To you you can at least dip your toe on a little bit. So that's my recommendation is to do that and get started and see if you like it or not. But tell me this, because I know we gotta let you go your mount rushmore of influence in your life. Yeah, who would those four be? Yeah, so I got to start out with my dad for sure. My dad. Yeah. To me, I've

just been fortunate. I feel like I was raised the right way, you know, the work ethic, how I prioritize things in my life. Those are big and that's kind of my foundation. So it kind of starts there. But then in the game, you know, it's really the gems and the head coaches that I worked for. You know, Scott Pioli came in really talking me about the plan

and how to do things the right way. Um, John Dorsey allowed me to really get an eye as an evaluator, like how to evaluate, how to build a roster, how to draft, and then Brett Veach who's in Kansas City. You know his style to always anticipating, like your your brain's always got to be two steps ahead of everybody else so that you can Yeah, so you can get the pieces that you need. And then I would say

Andy Reid would be on there too. Um, that's a guy who does it the right way, has a great relationship with players, and it's that fine line being able to push your guys but also show love and respect to him so they're willing to do whatever you know for him. So I've always admired how he moves and how he operates and how he leads in The leadership piece is probably the one that sticks out too. It's like we went through some rocky things. There was losing streaks,

there was winning streaks. Um, this dude is just stable like he does not like so you will be walking down the hallway after three game losing strick. You look at Andy, see what he's doing, same thing, just trying to find solutions and I'm talking about problems and the way he moves to the organization and leaves is incredible. That's awesome. Yeah, Hey, appreciate you stopping by coming through being a guests on the show. Good Luck, good luck man.

I'm rooting for you guys, and of course I always rough Chicago, but especially now getting to know you and you see in your family, I know what you're about. Good luck man, do your thing. I'm so proud of you. Appreciate it me too. Let's go. Let's go, wanting, Yes, let's go. I can't tell you how excited I am about the Chicago Bears and what Ryan Poles is doing. The buzz around town is he's making all the right moves. So yeah, man, I'm really looking forward to the two

thousand and twenty three season of Chicago Bears. Yeah. I totally understand why you're excited, but also understand and see why other people might not be as excited taking advantage taking, for instance, Green Bay Packers or these Minnesota Vikings, anybody that has to play the Bears might not be as excited, just because you understand all the great things that Ryan Pols is doing there, the way he's trying to build

this team from the ground up. And also I really appreciate all the experiences that he shared with us personally about his journey from going back to college at DC to all of a sudden, being at the lowest levels of Kansas City, moving up to moving up the food chain the way that he did. You truly understand why this man is successful and why he is a budding superstar in the category of GM in the NFL. Right, but more importantly, what we appreciate are you, the listeners.

Thank you for tuning in to listening to myself and Roman Harper, to the NFL players Second Acts podcasts. Keep listening.