Dr. Kevin Dyson talks being qualified to be justified

doesn't have a document smart right now? I thought I did. Sometimes I don't trust my my lower level killing me begon, I don't. Oh my god, thank you all for tuning in to another episode of the NFL Players Second Acts Podcast. I'm Peanut Toman and as always, I got my guy with me, Roman Salt and Pepper Beer Harper, what's up with it? It's good man? What's good with you? Peanuts? Good having you back? Yeah, a little bit today, I'm I'm really excited because I'm not the only Salt and

Pepper Beard brother on the pot today. No, no, no, we we gotta we we gotta we got a good one. Um let me let me let me read his resume real quick. Uh. He's a former wide receiver, first round pick in the ninety eight draft, played six NFL seasons for the Titans and the Panthers. He's been a part of two of the most memorable plays in NFL history. Um After his NFL career, he got into education, where he earned two master's degrees and he holds a doctorate

in education. Please welcome our guest, Kevin Joe Clark, Dr Dyson. I like that. I like that, Joel. I ain't put no hands on nobody yet, but you know why not. Why don't you put hands on these little kids? Put my kids every chance I get, Boy, they are bad. I know that's right. You know I got bills to pay. You know we're in the climbing now. You can't hardly say anything to anybody anymore but a Rome. I loved the salt pepper. Brother, you know you gotta keep it going.

I call it for a little while. Now I'm proudly wearing the salt pepper. Don't just get over. The only difference between yours is you probably got yours. I don't know. A year or two ago, Rome been rocking and salt and pepper. He came out of the wound with a salt and pepper. Rome came out of the womb looking like Benjamin Button Boy. He looked old when he came out,

and he just was great and everything. That is always talking because Peanut loves to uh how did they say, loves trying to start stuff with me about my gray air. He's offered up money many times and no, I'm not dying it. So let's go. Yeah, so I uh, let's well, we'll get right into this thing real quick. Dr Diyke, Can I call you? Do people? Do you correct? People with the doctor party you just told him? Call you Mr Dison, Dr Dyson, um man just calling whatever. You

don't call me out my name. I've had I've had people defend me though. I had a lot of parents and friends defend me. Uh like, no, he's doctor Dison now, but me, it don't matter, man, I tell you like this, Uh, getting that those initials before my name was one of the greatest accomplishments I could ever have done personally. And I don't necessarily I didn't ever say do it for the name the monica. I just did it for the challenge and that side of football. To be able to

accomplish something like that, that's what it was about for me. So, but I ain't gonna lie. It's kind of huge. Yeah, it's cool though, So I'm gonna call you, hey, Dr I like I like it too. That was one of the big things we talked about doctor Dr Dyson before we got on with you, Mr Kevin Dyson, was that, do you know once he earned the doctor the fact that you went to school, you did all that. Like at that point, man, we gotta call you that because that's hard work, that's time put in, and the most

people that earn it usually kind of go back. At least that's what we said we would. So yeah, I appreciate respect you put the hard work in. So I'm gonna Dr Dyson is all right, So listen, I'm gonna get right into it. I'm gonna cut the chase. So, as I said, involved in two of the most memorable players in NFL history, first the Music City Miracle, to kick the Trick, kick return play whatever. So I know you talked about this mania times, but I just want

to know, Uh, wasn't really a forward pass? No no, no, no, no, look at that. Now take me and frank out of the picture. Look at the flight of the ball. You look at the flight of the football is look at the flag football, it's slightly back. Look at that. So you go by the flight of the rules and the rule book is the flight of football is not the person. So by that definition is definitely a labable. Were you was supposed to be on the field, Like, how did that?

Who came up with that play? Um? So Alan Lowry, I guess he had run at at um University of Texas where he went to school, had run something similar back in the sixties, I believe sixties or sevenes. And now I wasn't supposed to be on the field. So that was something you know how it is on Saturday mornings, you're going to walk through you're going through situational football, two minute drill, sudden change and you're doing something like

that and you gotta win plays. Um. That was something that we always worked on on Saturdays, one of the last things we did. And I was a starting my serious I want to kickoff return team or nothing like other than hands that was all I was on. So I was one of those players, like you know, I had one ft on the field, one ft and the door ready to go, and um, you know you watch it, you see what they what they do. But at the end of the day, you're like, we're not really gonna

run this. It's like when the situation is going to present itself when you're gonna run this play right. And Derek Mason had gone out. I think he got concussed on a punt return around that time. He that was happening. I went in to get I V. I was dehydrad. I had been diluting myself, going figure, its cold and I've just been drinking too much water and just was diluting myself and so I was cramping up. So I went in to get I V. Run time he's being concussed.

His backup, Tony Anthony Dorset Jr. Um was cramping up at the end of the game. It couldn't run. So was like outside, you guys are terribly hydrated everywhere. I mean, I learned this later. I didn't have another electric like a drinking too much water and so he and he couldn't run, and they called me, I guess because you know, I can't return to college and I did some of my rookie year some point return and stuff like that.

So Jeff Fisher and a Lowry came up to me and they started saying, we're gonna run home and throw back. You're gonna go in there for Mason and uh Ice and Birds gonna slide over. They're gonna get the squid. We're gonna give it to Frank. He's gonna laterate. So they running this whole thing down to me. So the gis now I wastly supposed to get the lateral, let alone be in there. So the gist of the play is, you know, in some situations you play for a squib.

When we put Frank in, he had great hand to play for a squib, and then he does what he does well. The number one returnment, if you will, the furthest away from Frank, which would have been Isaac Bird. It is supposed to get the lateral. My job was to get in pitch relationship with him as he ran down the field. If he gets in trouble, pitch to me, I get what I get, Get out of bounds or whatever. Kick the field goal. Well, they bloomed it. Christie bloomed it.

And so when he did that, I don't know if Isaac who hadn't really run to play from that position at all. I don't know why I haven't talked to him in twenty years about it. We okay, I just never asked him. And he comes up to field it and he gets stumbles on. Now I'm just last man standing. Frank threw it to this day, on Frank and tell me all he wants to. He didn't know who was over there. He just threw it and I caught him in and it opened up. It was just all I

had to do with run. That was the easy part. Well, I promise you they didn't think Frank was gonna score though, that's why you probably do it so so so that was another thing. So Number one, first time hearing this all this story, because I remember this place specifically, the fact that like two people busted makes me laugh, right, like you never know that by the way it worked out, like, actually it wasn't even supposed to go that way, but

that's usually how football is. Number Two, My my real question to you is that why did the whole defense go over there with Frank witche Did they think he was gonna crib it or something like? They all went over there and then next you know, you were wide open by yourself with a couple of blockers out there in front of you. It's just so crazy watching it on TV. I'm like, but looking back on I'm like, hundsight is always twenty. I'm like, why did everybody go

with Frank wait? Check like he just going or something? You know, I want to ask that question. This this is my philosophy on that whole thing. We have been pretty much dominating the whole game. The score wasn't depicting of that, like you know what I mean. We it was a close game, but we pretty much we're controlling that game up until midway through the fourth quarter. And then they got to touchdown late in the game to

take the league. And I think because it was such a hard fig game, they were just anxious to end it, you know, get to get to make the play, make us go. You know, we didn't have much time left. You the odds of us going length to the field or go forty fifty yards to get a field goal range. I felt like they were like, I'm gonna head and gonna make this place. And they got out of position and all that did was run because I had a wall of people, so you know, my my job. Literally,

I literally did not get touched too start celebrating. That's how that's how how much out of position they were. They had to break a tackle, nothing, they just all sawball, went ball and got out of position. All right. Now, we heard one of your teachers made a meme of the last place and it's a frame on your desk. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, is still there? Yea? Is that just a constant reminder that you just one yard short, just a little short reminder of like I want to

know that. What is that reminder? Uh man, it's like this. You know, he can't take the good without taking a bad and you got there's lessons in both. And I tell people all the time, I think I learned more from that than I did. You see a miracle, like, let me say a miracle like I told you I was supposed to be a part of it that didn't happen. I was supposed to. I get it. I'm I'm on TV. Everybody's talking about me the Super Bowl. I'm in the progression.

I think I'm in. It's end of the game. It's the first time, especially in the pros, but from anything in sports, and I can remember that I did not get it done. That I was not successful at the I'm talking about having to hit two free throws at the end of the game to win like k kicks and soccer game winning catches. In football, that was the first time in my athletic life that I can remember.

It is the biggest game of my life. And so you know, there's there's a lot of life lessons in that, you know what I mean, Because you just never know when your opportunity is gonna come. You gotta be ready for it. And when they do come and you're not successful, what do you do for him? From that point on? And that next off season? Man, y'all know, y'all trained man that that focus now that I wasn't focused before,

but that focus was hyper. Man. I just was like, I want to get back to that moment so bad and and just to prove that if nobody else myself, that I can get it done. I put a lot of a lot of weight, a lot of pressure on myself for not scoring. I blame myself for a lot. And you know, I've watched that play a million times on highlights. I've watched the game still and watched the game and its entirety. Um, but that plays played every year.

People see it and then they've asked me this question, like what could have done differently in this and that and and I've dissected plenty of times. I don't. He just Mike Joels made a good play, man. He just sometimes you got took your hat and the guy makes a good play, and that's what it is. Yeah. So I've been accessed numerous times like having you know, I didn't I didn't go to a great football I didn't go to a great school known for football and lost

a lot of games. Still got drafted play thirteen years, made my place, kind of made a name for myself. And people always ask me what would you change? And I give him the same answer. I wouldn't change anything. I think things happen the way they were for me, and I know some people they do change that. So, knowing your place in NFL history with those two plays, Um, if you could, if you could trade them in for a longer career, would you do that? Man, you hit

the nerve. I'm gonna tell you, peanut, so Hey, I thought this a lot, like Okay, my counterpart was Derek Mason and that was running mate and we did a lot of things together, and before I got hurt, he was my backup, right and then I got in. That put him an opportunity. You know, you get opportunity, you don't you don't let it go. And that propelled him to probably a borderline Hall of Fame career. I think

he's in that conversation, he's had that kind of career. UM. And had he been in, MU said miracle, who know? I mean, you see what I'm saying, because that was supposed to be his moment was miracle and he wasn't out there and it was my moment um. And so I thought about this a long time. I never got the big bag because I had all the injuries toward

my knee, toward my achilles, toward my hand string. UM. But I also recognize that we talked about it, like I don't think maybe my ambition and motivations go get the master degrees or the doctorate. I don't know if it would have been the same. I don't know, because because I had, I had a lot lot of life lessons because of what happened after that, after those moments, you know, that was my second year in the league. UM, and that was within three weeks in my second year,

and um after that. The next year, I thought, I'm on my way of starting to get the ball coming my way. I tear my knee up. I come back, have a good year. The very next year, I tear my hamstring up, sign a free agent one year deal with Carolina, tear my hamstring up, and then I just never could never get over that hump to really prove my worth in the National Football League, even though I felt like my talent was there, I just couldn't never

get over that healthy hump. And so I thought about this over long, long haul, what I trade careers with my boy being Derek Mason, because that's essentially kind of what happened in those moments. I traded a moment for hearing for the career, if you will, Because I got hurt. He ended up stepping into the spot where I felt like I was going to be. And I don't I don't know. I don't think so because what I've accomplished

since then, I don't know if I would have. I've grown so much more as a man in that way.

And I know mace As too, we've talked. But if I would have, I don't know if I would have been the same person I am today without these lessons I've had along the way, right, Yeah, I mean that's really it again, Yeah yeah, I do, especially um understanding, like like what you talked about the whole the play that came up short, that's still in your your death right now, all the life you learn, you learned way more from the coming up short, the shortcomings in life

sometimes and even the biggest successes. And but it's learning moments in both, right. And so in two thousand three, your last years with the Panthers, you just kind of reminisced about that for a second. At what point did you know it was time? Was it because of all the injuries or was it something else specifically? Well, I still chased the dream for a couple more years. Um. I went to uh Washington, UM, and I got there.

At the end, I was having a great camp. I mean, people was like I was playing with smoke, you know, sean spring cold. People it was like, man, you still got some stuff in your tank. And they said, you just come off the couch. You still got you got off the couch like this. I was like, man, you know, and I get into that room with Annie Serato and Joe Gibbs, and they said, man, you had one of the best camps of all our receivers. But I like to keep a lot of age backs. Y'all know the

old Washington Riskins office. Both y'all play d so you get you know what I'm talking about. They was coming down here. They have a lot of tighty fullbacks, running backs. That's when they had Clinton Ports and then they just signed uh Santana Moss Um, Uh David Patton. They just drafted um. They signed James Strass the multi year deal. The special teams grew, they just strafted Um. I was named from Florida, I forget his name right now, receiver

from Florida. And then they had Sellers, had Ports and had all these running backs and he said, man, I just don't know we have a spot for you. I said, coach, you understand that. You know. It wasn't It wasn't I was getting because because of my talent. Wasn't there. It was because it was a numbers game. And then uh, that's okay. So I kept working out in San Diego.

Charge is called and that was the year Philip Rivers and then were drafted Um and uh, Philip Rivers came in and it was Drew Brees and at the end of that death season, and again it's kind of the same sentiment. Schottenheimer kind of said the same thing. He just like, man, it's a numbers game. I got to the point I was turning thirty years old, Um, I can keep chasing the dream. I had Canada calling, I had Arena ball calling, had teams calling and see if

I was still in the shape. I was telling them, yeah, I'm still working out. It was just like people keep me on tap, but they weren't pulling the trigger. And so yes, I said, Man, at some point, I gotta I gotta move on. I can't be chasing his dream. I got mouth and fee wife, you know, and I didn't want to be like be thirty or four years old still chasing the dream because now I'm getting older, right,

I'm I just turned thirty and and things of that nature. So, um, I just made a decision, man, right right for our turn thirty years old. So you know, it's trying to make a move, do something different. Yeah, you got a great memory. I just want you to know that the fact that you rounding off like all these names you just never forget, I guess, but your memory is impeccable. It is really something that's gon to be applauded. And after they hearing all this, we should call you doctor.

So that first year when we are retired, it can be hard for for some of us. Some of us kind of figured out, some of us we don't. I think I was a guy who struggled my first year. And you've often described the first year in retirement as losing a loved one or like overcoming an addiction, and I think I can relate to it. Was it was kind of like losing a loss of a loved one. So what was what was that first year like for you? Man? It's just like you said, you know, there's that that

that moment of depression. I feel like now I could look back on it, being older and wiser, I think I dealt with that. There's an emotional peace, there's a denial. You know. I don't know how many times y'all have watched games and be like, man, I can still do that, and watching my backup, watching my backup, go get bags. I'm watching, you know, just everything going on. There's that, um, there's anger. I was mad I was mad at the league, man, I was. I was just like, like, it's you know

that that's a whole another story. But I would just mad because I didn't get that opportunity to prove my worth. I felt like in and for different circumstances, especially at the end, um fear, I don't know what to do next. The natural fit was do you go into coaching? And I chased that for a little while, but I don't

know if I was about that life either. Um anxious you wake up, you know, you're so used to getting up and going and getting lifting weights, watching film all through all that, man, all that change your whole demeanor, change your whole um philosophy, change uh moment, something like everything just started changing. And um and that, like I said, I keep talking about it as like it's an addiction, because there is some forces of addiction or even you know,

losing a loved one too, because it really is. It's the longest relationship you have. You know, you started playing started playing football in the seven I retired on starty. That's twent three years of of a love hate relationship, right, And so that's why I've equated to that, and especially with the addiction piece, because man, the dream. You get addicted to that dream, um, whether whether you get the multi win all the contract or not, whether you get

the rings or not, I mean not. They're not trying the same thing about Bred Farv or Tom Brady or even Jerry Rice, guys who played into their forties. But I can see why, you know why they stayed as long as they could, um, just because man, that dream um. And so it was rough man that first year I started UM looking to coach. I went a cup. I found how political that was. One school, my even my ommala mater, he was like, you know, Kep, I don't know, guys that the coach at this level had never without

prior coaching experience. And then a couple of years later he hired Brian Johnson as a quarterback coach, and and I was like, okay, so I see how this is. And then I went to another school. I thought yeah, And when that school, I thought he was gonna hire me. And then then all of a sudden, two schools did this to me. Actually, and then all of sudden their

phones went quiet. And then I looked on the internet and I see they hired two different people, two different people expectively and I'm just like, man, is that really what it is? So I settled in on secondary education, man, and I enjoyed coaching kids that for the time I did it, Man, I really did to be able to share what I had in me with some other kids. Um. And then to be told, I learned a lot of

more about football, UM that I didn't know. You know, if we're so focused in on what we're doing and what the dB is doing, maybe the linebackers to a certain degree. But when I became a coach, especially I became a head coach, I didn't know what the old line was doing. I know that the line was doing. I know why coverage just did this. I knew why blitzes did that. I had to learn so much more about the game. So that would help me grow another appreciation for the game that gave me so much and

took so much from me as well. But I grew another appreciation for it. And then that then I was over after a while because I started that into two kids. Um, you kind of went into all the things that you dabbled into or got into while you were you know, after of retirement, and I know a lot of emotions probably fueled you and pushed you in these different directions, whether it was anger or anxiousness, uh, fear, whatever that was. But is it safe to say that the love for kids?

What kind of pushed you and kept you in this space of education? Like what pushed you there? Or was it a person? What exactly got you there and made you stay? Man, that's a great question. I don't think nobody's ever asked me that. Um, yeah, I think it was I saw I had something that I can get back to kids, and they were gravitating to it, and

I knew it was because of my past. I knew part of it was I had that that instant, that instant credibility to the kids because a lot of and at that time, the kids grew up watching me play. You know, one of the kids I coach was telling me about when he was four or five years old and he was at the Musicity Miracle with his parents, and yet now I'm coaching him, you know what I'm saying, So he quote unquote one of their heroes, if you will, and I'm coaching them. And so yeah, that's essentially what

got me and kept me where I was. And then the whole school thing was just UH me trying to better myself. UM. I would say, well, if I'm gonna be in this secondary educational world, I knew doors would open for me because of my past. So I my The term I've used is UM, I wanted to be qualified. So I was justified, and so I wanted to go learn much as I could about this education world about teaching. UM and the second masters that I know that it sounds impressive, but it was kind of an accident of

her had it happened stance. I was doing private school thing first, and then UM I had I went to public school and I didn't have a teaching license, so I had to go back to school to get my masters degrees. I get my teaching likes so and that's how I know with two masters degrees. But the uh and the doctor would talk about later. But UM to enter your question wrong, Yeah, man, the kids ultimately seeing that I had an IMPACTUM kept me there and UM.

Then when I transitioned, it was kind of the same thing. It was I grew as a leader as an individual leader, and I would only have impact on kids. I saw have an impact on adults, and that was was real cool for me. So I was like, man, I kind of like this. So that's why I moved into the administrative, administrative part of it. Don't you apologize anymore forgetting all these educations and degrees. All right, it's just it's okay, it's okay. Don't downplay it. Let us boost you up.

That's why I got out here. Yeah. Hey, I never thought myself be smart, man, and I and I you know, I'm just one thing I do know is how to work work hard and getting them degrees. Man, it was funny. And I've said this and what people think, well, I've said it's one of my great accomplishments. Is everything I poured into athletics, I finally poured into my academics. And

it's all one and the same, you know. It's just I knew motivation, knew work ethic, a new determination, all that stuff I did to get myself ready to play football. I just did that same thing for school and it worked out, you know. And that's what I tell people.

It's like, you must be smart, said now, I just know how to work hard and and and that was something that had to work harder at because it didn't come as natural to come natural and right, lifting weights, running, running routes, all that stuff you have to do to be put yourself in the utimo shape to be a football player. Um, I just did it from an academic standpoint. I mean you you said you called it your getting

your doctorate, like your mouth everest. I don't know any other former players that have got that have received a doctor And what would often often think about this? So one of my one of my philosophies is when you lose, don't lose the lesson. And as I get older, we hit wiser and we grow up and learned. And you said that, you know, looking back, I could say this and I felt that. So what would uh thirty year old NFL first round pick say to a principle with

the doctorate? What would that Kevin Dyson say to Dr Dyson? Wow? Man YouTube coming up with some great questions. I appreciate this, Um, we really got a good we got a good team. We do have a good team. Yeah yeah, yeah, no, No, I appreciate that. No, that that's really tough. That's good because you know, I'm writing a book and it makes

me evaluate kind of where I'm going with that. But you know, two totally different worlds, you know, when you're right the the thirty year old kid who that dream was just right there, right you just you're drafted, you're planning, and fell played in a couple of Super Bowls and that's your world, and you're like, that's that's all you know. Um Like, like I told people my first master's class. I get in there and the professor says, hey, we're talking about what's on the syllable. You gotta do a

word excel, you gotta do a power point. And at that point, no, I did what none of that was because remember, like Microsoft word wasn't happening when I was in college, right, that's old I am. And so I didn't know the world. All I knew was football. I knew the world from like traveling and all these things that afforded us because we have money to do those sorts of things. But I really didn't know the world. I didn't know books, I didn't know academia. I didn't

know that side of it. So what I would my thirty year old or younger self would ask myself now forty seven is like, what would you do differently? As far as that I would have taken the time to really enjoy my life and not taking football so seriously. I think I took football so serious and put so much pressure on that because I was chasing that bag. I was chasing the dream, one of the ring. I wanted to be known. I wanted to notoriety that all

the stuff that comes with playing ball. And I think about how so shortsighted compared to the extent of life. Like for most of us we end in our thirties and offordy seven. So I was gonna be a young man if I got to play ten fifteen years anyway. Uh So it was gonna be the same sort of thing. What what next? How am I going to grow as

an individual? And this is what I would now on this side of it from my older self to doctor Kevin Dice aside telling my younger self, man, it's like you'd like to believe you have a long life to live, man, and so do everything you think you ever wanted to do. Grow as you can grow as individual, even do stuff you didn't think you want to do, or you think I didn't think you can accomplish. I never thought i'd

go get my doctor. That didn't seem ever in the possibility of what I could do and to do to be of one percent on being a first round draft pick, in one percent of being called doctor and in in education. Man, you would if you had told me that was gonna be my path, I would have told you, man, you crazy. Yeah. I just thought, yeah, I thought I played football, go coach for a few years years and then on a couple of businesses and chill, like you know what I mean,

Like I didn't. I didn't have this. It was not in my plan book, on my playbook. It was just happened. And I'm happy it did because it's taught me a lot about myself and made me evaluate myself a lot. And I and I even like y'all know, if you play, you as a professional athlete, we evaluate ourselves every day. But outside of that, people don't do that. And we do it as pro athletes because if we don't do what the coaches are, your teammates are, the fan is,

the administration is. We're being evaluated every time, every time they put that film on you being evaluated. So if you don't evaluate yourself and try to get better, then it doesn't then you're not gonna last long. Well, if you don't do that. On this side of the equation, You're never gonna figure out what drives you that, what gives you purpose again, what fuels you? What? What helps

you make money? Um to support your family, because you know the average life expectancy of football players, but fifty six fifty seven something to that effect. So that's not a long time. So hopefully it's arresting peace. Franco Harris, he died of seventy too. Hopefully we can live a lot longer than that. But life is not promised. So what are you gonna do today to make itself better for tomorrow? And that's kind of how I started thinking.

I started getting more and more to the educational piece. You hadn't even said it. Yeah, I was first round draft pick, sixteenth overall, but I was also trantied in front of one of the best receivers ever to do it, Randy Moss. I was the first receiver taking right. People didn't know I was battling with that my whole career, Like I was dealing with that from a psychological standpoint and social emotional standpoint all my career, thinking like like

belittle with myself, like do I deserve this? Like here he is doing this, and I'm sitting here like watching him go ahead and catch ten fifteen balls a game, and I'm I'm getting scraps and you know what I mean. And I'm I'm measuring myself up to that, and and I'm assuming everybody else to do on the same, you know. And so I'm walking into meeting rooms or two facilities, and I'm thinking, like, man, everybody wishes I was Moss.

And I don't think that's true or not. It could be, but that's how I was walking in every day, anxious and then and feeling that. And I know those other young men that kind of have that same sentiment. There's a lot of pressure we put on ourselves. So my older self, my forty seven year old stelf we're told told my little twenty something year old kids. So man, just be you, go out there and be the best version of you, and if that's not good enough, someone

else will like it, you know. But I didn't real give it like that. Harrison is the Devil's joy, you know what though, Like listen listening to you, uh k Dr Dyson, it's just it's really intriguing into the mindset of where so many of our athletes are in former NFL players, minds are at and you know, one statement that you said in other interviews and other sit downs is that and it comes to you like wanting to be an educator. Was that you know, you wanted to

be qualified so you would be justified. But is that really almost like the synopsis of your whole life and career, the fact that you got drafted in front of Ready Moss. You never felt qualified for that. After you saw what Randy Moss is doing. You come up one yard short in the Super Bowl play where everybody remembers from Mike Jones talk with you, so you never felt qualified from there. You see Derek Mason come in your back up, start balling, go get the bag. You can't get over injuries. You

never qualified for those things too. So you literally your whole life you're chasing these things and you never feels as accomplished as you were as an athlete. You never felt qualified for anything. And so now you go and get these degrees to make or give yourself the sense of like, Okay, I belong and so has that really done that for you? Has that really done that for you?

I think that's what we need to get across to all of our listeners and people watching, is that like so many of us never feel qualified, force accomplished as we are. We never feel where we truly are justified, like, man, we did it right because we didn't reach that moment. We didn't get that goal whatever that is. And so has been this educator like have you reached that goal? And maybe if you have or have not, what was so fulfilling about it? Or have you got to this

place of fulfillment yet? Man? Ro Man, look at y'all. Man, that's hey, that's Deacon right there. That's why I was like, all I needed was an organ right there. When you hear me go definitely be right here. I love it. This is definitely be on sport. And this is rabb my alley right here. So I appreciate this. You don't even know. Listen, you hit it right on the head man.

As as I've grown and done that self evaluation and trying to learn what's what and be who I am exactly it man, This is I think why I'm so driven to be successful at this part of it is. It is my own thing. It's something different than what anybody ever expected from me, you know, even as a kid, being the best player on the team or whatever it was. And never feel like I ever fulfilled those expectations in a lot of respects. Um, this was my thing. Um,

and you're on the whole same man, you were. You talking about book right now and I gotta finish it. But this, this is, this is what it is man, being qualified. So I was justified. And um, you know, like you talked about, I've had so many of those. I was right there and I never got over the hump. I never was And you know I had, I had a moment or two, you know, the Super Bowl, let me see Americo and all that kind of stuff. So you know I've I always said, humbly, they to be

still be relevant twentysoo years later. Um, that's something I don't take for granted, because there's a lot of cats that y'all know that played with us, played after us, and played before us, that people don't talk about, don't know about name hip. All these Hall of famers get those rings and get into all of fame, but nobody

knows about them. So for me to actually have something people still talk about, still want to talk about, you know, it's humbling and I appreciate that, But the end result of it is, I think as a man, I had to have something that I can identify for me that was mine, that was my home. That I wasn't chasing somebody else's dream. Wasn't chasing a ghost. I wasn't chasing the the success of Randy Moss. I wasn't chasing the success of my running mate Derek Mason. I wasn't chasing

everybody's expectations of me, you know. And I'm to be talked wrong. I'm just now getting there. And now I'm just now realizing that as I'm doing all this writing and things that that nature and talk about, I'm just not understanding. And the last year or two, so this is I've been retired since I was thirty. We're talking fifteen years just right. And and as I think now you're starting to hear more about the mental health, peace

and and all the stuff. They're some of our teammates are former players and stuff are going through the CTE depression, suicide and all that kind of stuff just makes you pause for a second, like am I okay? You know? And and and you're like, okay, so what am I hanging on too? You know. And I still don't gonna be wrong. I still got my faults, man, I still have my struggles. My wifeould tell you that for sure, but um it, but it's a it's an ongoing process.

And when I think it started with knowledge itself. And I'm trying to get to learn myself because you're talking about forty some years of habit or history that I'm trying to unfold, unpack and figure out. But you said it in probably better terms out loud that I don't know if I've ever shared with anybody, but to be told, yeah, man, I feel like I've been chasing ghosts my whole life. And and it's and it's only self inflicted. It's only because of me. I don't Randy. Randy wasn't worried about me.

Mace wasn't worried about me. You know. Shoot, they were doing the same thing. They're trying to make the most of their careers, do what they could be their ability, same thing. They weren't thinking about me. And here I didn't worry about Dan. How I measure up? You know? So? But yeah, man, that's deep. Man. He got me on the therapy coution. Now I appreciate you. Yeah, he he, he is old and wise. You said you forty seven.

I think Rome fifty one. Yeah, I think Rome fifty one with them suit TV war hearing the other night, boy he was clean with the with the turtle neck, looking like a black Bruce Wayne I saw the other night about Yeah, Tennessee Alabama pimps over there. All right, Look, we're gonna take We're gonna take a quick break. We're gonna pay some bills, and when we come back, we're gonna have a couple of questions that, uh, hopefully you can answer. You got the doctor and everything, Dr Dison.

So when I asked you a couple of questions that a fifth grader should know, soun in. We'll be, we'll be, We'll be right back. You're the educator, So Joe College, this Jesus for you. Now that we'll do, we'll do, we'll be right back. All right. So now we're here with Dr Kevin Dyson, wide receiver number one in the two thousand what draft, two thousand three draft. Right, I'm just trying to I'm just trying to, yeah, trying to put all these things together. Anyways, No, that's not important

now now we get to call him doctor. We are going to make him, We're going to challenge him today that we're gonna make you a little bit more nerve racking here, right, So we're gonna kind of put it all out there. And so defending your doctorate dissertation or jumping out of an airplane with the Army Golden Knights, oh oh wow. Um. I've done both, and I tell you what they both were like bucket list. I never thought I'd do it. Which one was more nerve racking?

I'm gonna go and jumping out the airplane? Good. I don't blame you. That's the reason being is as as because I was nervous wrecked when I was defending my my dissertation. But my advisor, she stopped. She stopped me. She said, Kevin, you know your research. Relaxed. This this is this is not even like this is not playing in the super Bowl, just you know it and talking. Once you did that, I settled down and I was able to defend my my research. But that jumping out

the plane, I had no control. So did you jump out of and C one thirty? I don't remember what the plane it was? Man. They probably told me. I won't pay attention. My mind was like, man, I just want to get to the ground. But I tell you what, it's the most liberating experience I've ever had in my life. And I was done. I want to go right back up and I will go put you want to get on that second question? Yeah? Yeah, so my question go ahead? Oh yeah, yeah, So my question to you, now, these

fifth grade of questions. You should know these. You have a doctorate, So no offense if you don't know. Storing it out there doctor Dr Dyson Um who was the sixteenth president? No presure, not states, no pressure. Who I'm gonna go with Wilson Woodrow Wilson, I would have to say that is incorrect, sir. It is Abraham Lincoln. Yeah, all right, it's okay. Yeah, it wasn't. We weren't even trying to trick you on that one. What is the largest and deepest ocean in the world? Largest and deepest? Yes,

the Atlantic, both of them? Atlantic? Is that true? I don't know. I wouldn't went with Pacific. Do we know the answer? Peanut? Why you put it on me? I thought, that's answer. You're supposed to know that. You're supposed to know the answer. To your questions, does your Pacific? Yes, it is the Pacific. I know. Oh my god, you're not terrible. Need I need a new co host? You

don't even know the answer to these questions? Well I thought it was specific, but then he said Atlantic, and I was like, I mean he does have a doctor. Smart right now? I thought I didn't. Sometimes I don't trust my lower level. I apologize. I don't tell my god. All right, So the Statue of Liberty was a gift from one country. Oh, I know this is too. Yes, you got our oldest and longest uh ally world ally from from the Europeans. Great job. All right. Who is

the author of the book To Kill a Mockingbird? Oh? Man, yeah, that one. Give it to him. What you gotta he buying that? Yeah? I don't know it and in his mind he hey, here's the reason why. So you know in that book they say some choice words and they do you know you had to deal with that in school. I had to deal with it, and I'm kind of I got all the characters names mentioned, I cannot remember the author's name right now. Finch, I know Mr Finch was one of the guys. Boom um, yeah, I forgot

you got me. See, maybe we should skip it and then we'll come back to it. All right, we got one more question, if you know you want to get on the last question. Yeah, so the Siens question, which planning in our solar system is known for its beautiful rings? Saturn? Bo All right, who is the author to kill a mocking Bird? Go? Oh man, I'm thinking all the character I can't remember, you know, what's me messed up? I'm gonna get off. You're not gonna google it. I'm gonna

walk out and like there it is. Watch you're gonna tell them wrong? The Harper League, Harper League. Yeah, properly. God, dang it, Harperly, that's what it is. I knew that's what it is. That's my that's my did That's what I was gonna say something, right, I dang it right, I was gonna say that's it right there. You know they thank they got that book band now from education because of the words and the choice words. Yeah, deal

with it too. Yeah, Dr Dyson, Man, I can't we can't thank you enough for just sharing your your story with us about the league, education, the first year of retirement. Um, just hey man, you you you blessed us today, and I just want to say thank very much. I appreciate it. Um. I love what you've done post football. You know, people see you as a person not just a football player, but you your principle of a high school man. That's

that's big, that's that's powerful. I love that you reclaim your worth and just everything you're doing, and I'm wishing you nothing but growth success on this upcoming book that you have. Hey, Kevin Man, I would like to say thank you too, bro, really just being an open book for us today and really sharing your emotions, your past, things that you've been through which really led you to

this today and sharing with our listeners. So thank you, brother. Now, I appreciate yo, Man, I appreciate you'll give me on the couch a little bit, and you know it's easier to share that with guys that you feel like, you know, you understand, you know what I mean, because y'all y'all

been there in your own women. Yeah yeah, um. And again doing this podcast, I do one as well, UM similar to talk about transitioning um um through life because people ask me about my story and so I've been doing something similar with my podcast and UM, I guess I got a storytelling. I'm I'm appreciative y'all providing apportunity to share it you no doubt we all got stories, but thanks for sharing yours with us and being vulnerable.

Much respect Dot. You appreciate, you appreciate, I appreciate you. Once again. Thank you to all the listeners for tuning in. I want to ask you to spread the word and to give us a rating, a review, and a follow on anywhere you pick up your podcast at, whether it's Apple Podcast, our Heart Radio, Apple or wherever else you tune in that for all your podcast thank you so much for joining us. Again. Shout out, we out of here, and we out